REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"Evidens". So, where are we now?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, October 23, 2017 15:44
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VIEWED: 5031
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Friday, July 28, 2017 7:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Mueller, who is famously friends with (fired) Comey, is supposed to be looking at whether the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia. Just as Ken Starr was supposed to be looking at potential fraud in the Whitewater case. The problem is Mueller is probably turning this into an endless, ceaseless expedition up Trumps' anus, looking for something ... ANYthing ... on which to prosecute. The sheer politicization of everything that went before the campaign ... including the FBI's intentionally botched investigation of anything Hillary, and the DOJ's ultimate refusal to prosecute .... plus the extremely weak to nonexistent evidence of "collusion" with Russia (the FBI didn't even examine the DNC server), and the torrent of leaks and lies about Trump ... should Trump have even the slightest confidence that this is a fair-minded investigation and not a targeted attack?

If it were me, I'd have no confidence whatsoever in Mueller's objectivity.

Signym is again channeling Paul Craig Roberts, but the original Roberts does it best:
“US intelligence services, the Democratic Party, some Republicans including members of President Trump’s own government, and the presstitute US media are conspiring against American democracy and the President of the United States.”
www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/07/24/conspiracy-remove-trump-presidency
-paul-craig-roberts
/

Then again Paul Craig Roberts sees conspiracies everywhere. He wraps it all up into a neat package: “Unless Americans become more observant and act upon what they observe, American liberty is doomed.” and follows that by pointing you to “An excellent Russian English language website that will add to your perspective.”
www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/20/orlando-wrap-up-paul-craig-roberts/


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, July 28, 2017 7:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Whatever extra costs their surgical expenses and treatments are, as related to the transgender treatments, every male and female soldier should get in the form of a check. Otherwise, transgendered soldiers are being paid more to do the same job as the men and women who serve.

The Pentagon spends 5 times more on Viagra than transgender services. Should soldiers get an extra check for their erections without drugs?
www.businessinsider.com/pentagon-transgender-medical-comparison-2017-7

House GOP insiders feared they might not have the votes to pass Trumpcare because defense hawks wanted a ban on Pentagon-funded sex reassignment operations — something GOP leaders wouldn’t give them. They turned to Trump, who didn’t hesitate. In the flash of a tweet, he announced that transgender troops would be banned altogether.
www.politico.com/story/2017/07/26/trump-transgender-military-ban-behin
d-the-scenes-240990

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Friday, July 28, 2017 9:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Manifort (sp?) represented or lobbied for some Russian-friendly Ukrainian.- SIGNY

You're so transparent and so phony. His connections to Russia go much deeper and much wider.- G

Such as? Links please.

Quote:

You've got to be shitting us, right? Mueller, who is famously friends with (fired) Comey, is supposed to be looking at whether the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia. Just as Ken Starr was supposed to be looking at potential fraud in the Whitewater case. The problem is Mueller is probably... SIGNY

Probably? You don't know just guessing? So based on? Today's barometric pressure? - G

Based on his history of being Comey's friend, and of his appointee's (Weissman) record of prosecutorial misconduct.

Quote:

In a trial rife with prosecutorial misconduct obviously calculated to win at any cost, Weissmann helped rewrite crucial jury instructions defining the "crime" and the intent required.

Three years later, a unanimous Supreme Court reversed the conviction. All the justices agreed that Andersen's conduct was not a crime, and it was "shocking how little criminal culpability the jury instructions required."

In plain English, Mr. Weissmann concocted a crime, destroyed a company and 85,000 jobs, spent millions of tax dollars, and obtained a wrongful conviction — all for nothing.

The prosecutors were so over-reaching that the judge even allowed Mr. Duncan to withdraw his guilty plea.

Weissmann ran the grand jury like a petty tyrant. He instructed one defendant (my client) — who had appeared voluntarily — to share his "personal understanding" of a telephone call he had not even participated in, "whether his understanding was accurate or not." Then, Weissmann indicted him for perjury and obstruction of justice for his answer.

Determined to "send a message to Wall Street," Weissmann supervised the prosecution of four Merrill Lynch executives on charges that were unprecedented.

Like a character from the TV series The Blacklist, Weissmann himself often made multiple phone calls to lawyers for potential defense witnesses, threatening the indictment of anyone who might testify for the defense — including in-house legal counsel.

To top it off, Weissmann and team actually yellow-highlighted evidence that was favorable to the defense before the Barge trial, but hid it for six years while four Merrill executives served a year in prison on an indictment that failed to allege a crime as charged.


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/robert-mueller-andrew-weissmann/2017/
06/07/id/794685
/


Quote:

... turning this into an endless, ceaseless expedition up Trumps' anus, looking for something ... ANYthing ... on which to prosecute. The sheer politicization of everything that went before the campaign ... including the FBI's intentionally botched investigation of anything Hillary... - SIGNY

And yet Comey's last minute finding of another batch of someone else's emails is cited by many (Trump voters) as the last straw for Clinton. So, very rubbish.- G

If Lynch and Comey had done their jobs, Hillary would have been under investigation for obstruction of justice at the very least. But because Lynch took the extraordinary step of chatting with Bill for 20 minutes, and Jim took over for Loretta in - in essence- pardoning Hillary and everyone who worked with her on that server, they politicized and publicized the cased. Once he publicly pardoned Hillary, Comey felt compelled to keep everyone in the loop about the latest "Hillary" info.

Quote:

...and the DOJ's ultimate refusal to prosecute .... plus the extremely weak to nonexistent evidence of "collusion" with Russia (the FBI didn't even examine the DNC server)- SIGNY
I noticed that you had nothing to say about the extremely weak to nonexistent evidence about Russian "interference' in our election. After all, what is the point of "collusion" if your partner in collusion can't benefit you in any way?

Quote:

... and the torrent of leaks and lies about Trump ... should Trump have even the slightest confidence that this is a fair-minded investigation and not a targeted attack? SIGNY

BTW - leaks are not lies. I know you didn't say they were, just clarifying. Leaks can sink ships of state though. - G

Well, since you're so hot to trot to "convict" Trump, why don't you list the "leaks" that turned out to be true- starring with the "golden showers dossier", which seems to have been paid for by a Hillary supporter. Those people who booked it up are pleading the fifth, BTW, which is their right.

Quote:

Co-Founder Of Trump-Russia Dossier Firm Cancels Testimony While Lynch Claims Ignorance

After it was revealed that Rob Goldstone - the man who arranged the now infamous Trump Jr. "setup" with a shady Russian attorney, is associated with Fusion GPS - the firm behind the largely discredited 35 page Trump-Russia dossier, the co-founder of Fusion GPS abruptly canceled his appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee next week to testify in the ongoing probe into Russian influence in the 2016 election, according to Politico.



Quote:

BTW - investigation is still ongoing - saying there's no evidence of collusion is misleading and phony. Again, you/we don't know what's been found.- G
Well, we know that much of what has been "found" seems to have been buried in unmarked graves.

Yes, the investigation is ongoing. But UNLIKE YOU, I follow the "Innocent until prove guilty" principle.

Quote:

And what is collusion? Is it even the right word?- G
I dunno, YOU were the one who used it! Is that word suddenly not taking you where you want to go?

Quote:

An excellent article on the subject with varying povs:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-21
5366


I'd vote that he'll be convicted of obstruction of justice more than any Russian connections, but it could be both. His multitude of Russian connections that he has repeatedly lied about ...

That's one thing that people have not been able to demonstrate. Aside from the dossier, which looks like complete rubbish, Trump himself seems to have fewer connections to Russia than Hillary.

Quote:

are substance enough imho to flush him down the drain. He shouldn't park cars at the White House.-G
Yes, that's your opinion., fortunately there are better legal minds out there than yours.

Quote:

Have no fear! If Trump doesn't fire Mueller and Mueller doesn't find anything on Trump vis-a-vis Russian illegal activities, there are state's prosecutors lining up to file lawsuits against Trump.-G
FOR WHAT? Here is an interesting counterpoint to your article

Quote:

State Attorneys General Won’t Save Us This
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/
state_attorneys_general_won_t_save_us_if_trump_fires_robert_mueller.html


Quote:

This will never end with him in the WH.
Yes, I know .... you and the rest of the neocon- deep state liberals will spend the rest of your days gnashing your teeth as long as Trump is Presdient, and you will do anything, say anything, hope for anything to bring him down.

And if the DNC keep fomenting sedition in people like you, your eye's will be entirely off the ball when the REAL real world comes to smack you in the head, either in the form of being tagged with coming up with a plan for healthcare, or the financial meltdown that so many are predicting, or some foreign policy/ military catastrophe that the deep state cooks up.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 28, 2017 9:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump's Cameo In 'The Emoji Movie'



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, July 28, 2017 9:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


More irrelevant bullshit from SECOND.

Yanno SECOND, I'm really not a Trump supporter ("Three things", remember?) just a really really pissed off Dem. But if you're at all reflective of the DNC, you are collectively so far out of the REAL real world that you deserve whatever failure comes your way.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 28, 2017 9:29 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


This is Evidence that Trump has very poor judgment on who he associates with. Trump's new Director of Communications, Tony Scaramucci or The Mooch, communicates with The New Yorker Magazine:

“What I want to do is I want to fucking kill all the leakers and I want to get the President’s agenda on track so we can succeed for the American people,” he told me.

He cryptically suggested that he had more information about White House aides. “O.K., the Mooch showed up a week ago,” he said. “This is going to get cleaned up very shortly, O.K.? Because I nailed these guys. I’ve got digital fingerprints on everything they’ve done through the F.B.I. and the fucking Department of Justice.”

“What?” I interjected.

“Well, the felony, they’re gonna get prosecuted, probably, for the felony.” He added, “The lie detector starts—” but then he changed the subject and returned to what he thought was the illegal leak of his financial-disclosure forms. I asked if the President knew all of this.

“Well, he doesn’t know the extent of all that, he knows about some of that, but he’ll know about the rest of it first thing tomorrow morning when I see him.”

Scaramucci said he had to get going. “Yeah, let me go, though, because I’ve gotta start tweeting some shit to make this guy crazy.” This guy referred to is Reince Priebus.

www.newyorker.com/news/ryan-lizza/anthony-scaramucci-called-me-to-unlo
ad-about-white-house-leakers-reince-priebus-and-steve-bannon


Is it a crime that Trump hired The Mooch? Who can know until Robert Mueller finishes his investigation?

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Friday, July 28, 2017 9:50 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I'm going to have to hear the audio of that conversation.

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Friday, July 28, 2017 10:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm going to have to hear the audio of that conversation.

The Mooch is Smooth.

After reading what he said to The New Yorker Magazine, The Mooch gave a telephone interview to . . . a TV show! What he said, he says, doesn't mean what it meant when he said it to The New Yorker. It means something nicer, he says. Sure, Mooch. You got in trouble because a journalist wrote down your words.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, July 28, 2017 10:26 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Manifort (sp?) represented or lobbied for some Russian-friendly Ukrainian.- SIGNY

You're so transparent and so phony. His connections to Russia go much deeper and much wider.- G

Such as? Links please.





Links that validate what G has posted have been provided many times SIG. Your asking for them again is just a tactic to undermine the validity of G's statement. Sorry, doesn't fool anybody.

And hey, looks like Trumps White House is little more than an oval firing squad. Your president is a weak, winy, loser.






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Friday, July 28, 2017 10:57 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The Pentagon spends 5 times more on Viagra than transgender services. Should soldiers get an extra check for their erections without drugs?



They can take that out of their paychecks too. If they have a problem with that, take up the crazy costs with Big Pharma.

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Friday, July 28, 2017 11:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Links that validate what G has posted have been provided many times SIG.
That's a very passive statement - ' have been provided'. By whom? Not by either you or GEEBERS.

I know.

I checked.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Friday, July 28, 2017 11:20 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Links that validate what G has posted have been provided many times SIG.
That's a very passive statement - ' have been provided'. By whom? Not by either you or GEEBERS.

I know.

I checked.











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Monday, July 31, 2017 9:28 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
More irrelevant bullshit from SECOND.

Yanno SECOND, I'm really not a Trump supporter ("Three things", remember?) just a really really pissed off Dem. But if you're at all reflective of the DNC, you are collectively so far out of the REAL real world that you deserve whatever failure comes your way.

When it comes to what Putin sees as a success and as a failure, it’s about money.

Vladimir Putin is reportedly richer than Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos combined. (And he’s never even given a second thought to providing free shipping…)
http://fortune.com/2017/07/29/vladimir-putin-russia-jeff-bezos-bill-ga
tes-worlds-richest-man
/

Bill Browder made the claim before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday. He is one of the best authorities on Putin's business dealings.
www.voanews.com/a/terrible-crimes-made-putin-world-richest-person-fina
ncier-tells-senators/3961955.html


Browder cooperated with Putin in anticorruption efforts, but eventually found himself targeted by Putin. That conflict led to the jailing and death of Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, and in turn to the Magnitsky Act sanctions against certain Russian oligarchs by the U.S.

According to Browder’s testimony, Putin amassed his vast wealth by using political clout to coerce Russians who made investments to simply hand over large chunks of their holdings to him. Browder claims Putin has a personal interest in reversing the Magnitsky Act, since many of those impacted by it hold Putin’s money for him. According to Browder, that includes some in U.S. institutions that is frozen or at risk of seizure.

If Browder’s claims are accurate, then, Russia’s interference in the U.S. election may have had as much to do with defending Vladimir Putin’s vast personal wealth as with advancing Russian state interests.

Browder testified that when Congress passed the Magnitsky Act, Putin retaliated by imposing a ban on Russian orphans. The goal of the meeting with Trump Jr., Browder said, "was to repeal the Magnitsky Act" and the sanctions that were associated with its imposition. Browder affirmed that talk of adoption was effectively Russian code for lifting the sanctions.

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Monday, July 31, 2017 9:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Unsupported claims on top of sheer speculation.

MORE FAKE NEWS !

But that's 'SECONDS' stock in trade. See "useful idiot" below.





Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, July 31, 2017 9:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Sheesh, yeah. No kidding, KIKI!

SECOND, GSTRING, THUGR ... do you have ANY idea what evidence is???

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, August 1, 2017 10:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Sheesh, yeah. No kidding, KIKI!

SECOND, GSTRING, THUGR ... do you have ANY idea what evidence is???

??? So many questions 1kiki and Signym have and so few answers.

President Trump is now directly implicated in trying to cover up the Russia scandal
By Paul Waldman August 1 at 10:05 AM

If the Russia scandal is nothing but a witch hunt, as President Trump so often says, it’s awfully strange that he’s going to so much trouble to cover it up.

Last night, the latest blockbuster story was written in this scandal, in which the president dictated a misleading statement about the nature of the fateful meeting his son Donald Trump Jr., his son-in-law Jared Kushner, and his then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort had with a group of Russians during the campaign.
www.vox.com/2017/7/31/16073356/donald-trump-jr-russia-statement

This latest story is clearly one of the most significant developments in this scandal to date, for two reasons.

First, it describes an organized effort to mislead the public — not to spin, or minimize the story, or distract from it, or throw out wild accusations about someone else, but to intentionally fool everyone into believing something false.

Second, it implicates the president himself. Indeed, the most extraordinary part of the picture this story paints is that while other people involved were recommending some measure of transparency on the assumption that the truth would come out eventually, they were overruled by the president, who personally dictated the misleading statement.

And it gets worse.

Once the story broke, Trump’s own lawyer went to the media and denied that the president was involved in the drafting of the misleading statement.

In two televised interviews, Jay Sekulow said “the president was not involved in the drafting of the statement,” “The president didn’t sign off on anything,” and “The president wasn’t involved in that.” While it’s theoretically possible that Sekulow would make emphatic statements of fact like those about what his client did or didn’t do without actually asking Trump, that seems almost impossible to believe. Sekulow is a prominent attorney who knows exactly what kind of trouble that could bring, both to himself and his client. So the only reasonable conclusion is that he was repeating what Trump told him.

So, to put this together: The president of the United States personally wrote a statement about this meeting with the Russians, a statement that everyone involved knew to be false. Going further, he then either lied to his own lawyer about his involvement so that the lawyer would repeat that lie publicly (highly likely) or was candid with his lawyer and persuaded him to lie to the media on his behalf (much less likely).

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/08/01/president-trump-i
s-now-directly-implicated-in-trying-to-cover-up-the-russia-scandal
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Sheesh, yeah. No kidding, KIKI!

SECOND, GSTRING, THUGR ... do you have ANY idea what evidence is???

As the OP for this thread, I ask you for this, perhaps as a favor, or to bolster your points.

This thread has devolved into large piles of BS, albeit not as much or as quickly as the other thread.

So I ask if you could supply, like in your OP, with edits, to identify which posts in this thread have valid points, or evidence. Providing post #s, dates, times of the specific posts would be sort of an index, or table of contents, of pertinent entries. If there are none, you could say "no valid presentation of evidence prior to ______ date" or similar.

This thread grows a lot in short time, but the substance posts seem to get buried. And I'd like to find them and refer to them.

Thanks.

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Tuesday, August 1, 2017 9:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

This thread has devolved into large piles of BS, albeit not as much or as quickly as the other thread.

It's not evidence but I have more hearsay. It is not about Trump/Russia. It is about Trump's problem solving strategies. Virtually every expert on North Korea agrees that Kim Jong Un is rational: that he wants nuclear weapons not to wipe out an American city, which would clearly lead to retaliation that would decimate the country, but to protect the North from foreign invasion or regime change. That is not how Trump sees North Korea.

Lindsey Graham: Trump “told me” he will bomb North Korea if it keeps testing missiles
www.vox.com/world/2017/8/1/16075198/trump-lindsey-graham-north-korea-w
ar


“If thousands die, they’re going to die over there.”

On Tuesday morning, Sen. Lindsey Graham said that President Trump is willing to go to war with North Korea to stop it from being able to hit the American mainland with a nuclear weapon.

“There is a military option: to destroy North Korea’s nuclear program and North Korea itself,” Graham told the Today show’s Matt Lauer. “He’s not going to allow — President Trump — the ability of this madman [Kim Jong Un] to have a missile that could hit America.

“If there’s going to be a war to stop him, it will be over there,” Graham continued. “If thousands die, they’re going to die over there. They’re not going to die over here — and he’s told me that to my face.”

Graham’s press office confirmed that the senator was, in fact, reciting the details of a conversation he had with the president. According to Graham, the president “doesn’t want a war” — but would be willing to start one that would kill millions of people in the region if it came down to it.

Graham went even further later in the interview, saying war between the United States and North Korea was “inevitable” under this president unless North Korea stops testing intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs). These missiles, Graham says, are an unacceptable threat to the American homeland — so Trump would go to war to stop them:

LAUER: Are you saying it’s okay to use a military option that immediately endangers the lives of millions of people in that region?

GRAHAM: I’m saying it’s inevitable unless North Korea changes, because you’re making our president pick between regional stability and homeland security. He’s having to make a choice that no president has wanted to make. They’ve kicked the can down the road for 20 years; there’s nowhere else to kick it. There will be a war with North Korea over their missile program if they continue trying to hit America with an ICBM. He’s told me that, and I believe him.

Now, we don’t know if Graham is accurately conveying what the president said or merely putting words in his mouth. A senior White House official, when asked about Graham’s comments, told me that “all options remain on the table” — but also noted that the administration’s policy right now was to apply “maximum diplomatic and economic pressure to convince North Korea to change course.”

It’s clear from the interview that Graham himself supports military action against North Korea, so it’s possible he’s just trying to position the president on his side of the debate. It’s also possible that he’s just trying to establish a threatening position to increase US leverage in negotiations with North Korea and China, Pyongyang’s patron.

But it’s also possible that Graham is simply telling the truth: that both he and the president are willing to risk a catastrophic war that could threaten the lives of millions of North Koreans, South Koreans, and Japanese — not to mention the 28,500 US troops stationed in South Korea — to head off an as-yet-theoretical threat to the United States.

“This is madness,” Kingston Reif, the director for disarmament and threat reduction policy at the Arms Control Association, tweeted after seeing Graham’s comments. “Unhinged madness.”

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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


I asked 12 legal experts if the latest Trump-Russia news showed obstruction of justice
www.vox.com/2017/8/2/16075404/donald-trump-jr-russia-investigation-mue
ller-obstruction



“A policy of dishonesty within the White House would be an investigative jackpot for Mueller.”

. . .

By itself it's not a crime to lie to the public, though in the past it's something that's come with some political risk. Whether that's still the case is uncertain. Legally, the president's attempt to dictate his son's response may be probative (meaning it constitutes evidence) as to motive in an obstruction of justice case developed by Mueller.

. . .

When we speculate about investigations from afar, we often speak of “smoking guns,” but most trials don’t involve them. Legal claims are usually proven by compiling many incidents and details that together reveal a clear pattern. As [University of Texas Law School] Dean Charles McCormick wrote in 1954, “A brick is not a wall.” On its own, this new item may not prove much, but it’s another brick that could someday be part of a wall that proves obstruction of justice.

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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:45 AM

6STRINGJOKER



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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 1:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Sheesh, yeah. No kidding, KIKI!

SECOND, GSTRING, THUGR ... do you have ANY idea what evidence is??? - SIGNY

As the OP for this thread, I ask you for this, perhaps as a favor, or to bolster your points.
This thread has devolved into large piles of BS, albeit not as much or as quickly as the other thread.

So I ask if you could supply, like in your OP, with edits, to identify which posts in this thread have valid points, or evidence. Providing post #s, dates, times of the specific posts would be sort of an index, or table of contents, of pertinent entries. If there are none, you could say "no valid presentation of evidence prior to ______ date" or similar.

This thread grows a lot in short time, but the substance posts seem to get buried. And I'd like to find them and refer to them.

Thanks.

Do you have any idea how much scheisse I'd have to wade thru???

The busy person in me says No way! but the OCD person in me says Yeah!. The OCD person will win out in the end, I'm sure.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 2:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Okie dokie, I just scanned thru mountains of SECOND's bullshit, lies, and personal attacks; and GSTRING's lies and personal attacks, and the only two points that came up ... and have since been dropped by our fearful contributors, are

1) Jr's meeting with a Russian, which was apparently something of a dry hole. The meeting failed to rise to the level of "collusion" (whatever that was), and

2) Kushner's four meetings with Russians, in which he did not discuss campaign issues and which also fail to rise to the level of "collusion".

Now, one of the pieces of "evidence" (i.e sheer speculation) that SECOND brings forth is that idea that Trump wouldn't have fired Comey UNLESS there was something "Russian" to hide. But the reality is that Comey was acting in a highly politicized manner, as was Loretta Lynch, and Trump was right to fire him. Investigations have been opened on them, too.

And a Special Prosecutor straying far afield from the original suspicion and going on an endless expedition for ANY evidence along ANY lines is not only Unconstitutional (Fourth Amendment violation) it is a pointed political weapon .... as Bill Clinton could tell you.

At this point, even the liberal MSM seems to have backed off the "collusion" narrative. It probably looks to them as being insufficient to their purpose of getting rid of Trump. They have now shifted to the "obstruction" narrative, and if that fails they will shift to the "crazy" narrative. They're not really looking for the truth, they're just looking for any narrative that will stick to the wall that will get them to their desired goal of implementing a soft coup.


*****

In sum, JEWEL, at this point there doesn't seem to be any "there" there, as far as "Russia" is concerned. But just look back at all of the previous "Russia" allegations that have been dropped ... "golden showers" dossier, the mysterious "pinging" to Trump Tower server, and all of the "contacts" between various people which seem to have not produced any campaign-related results, the DNC "hack" (the FBI never did inspect the server) and all of the other activities which have not been supported by any real evidence or produced any indictments ... it all reveals a pattern: Not a pattern of "collusion" with "RUSSIA!" but a pattern of false allegations.

Hopefully the various committees will continue their investigations and find out the truth.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 6:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Sheesh, yeah. No kidding, KIKI!

SECOND, GSTRING, THUGR ... do you have ANY idea what evidence is??? - SIGNY

As the OP for this thread, I ask you for this, perhaps as a favor, or to bolster your points.
This thread has devolved into large piles of BS, albeit not as much or as quickly as the other thread.

So I ask if you could supply, like in your OP, with edits, to identify which posts in this thread have valid points, or evidence. Providing post #s, dates, times of the specific posts would be sort of an index, or table of contents, of pertinent entries. If there are none, you could say "no valid presentation of evidence prior to ______ date" or similar.

This thread grows a lot in short time, but the substance posts seem to get buried. And I'd like to find them and refer to them.

Thanks.

Do you have any idea how much scheisse I'd have to wade thru???

The busy person in me says No way! but the OCD person in me says Yeah!. The OCD person will win out in the end, I'm sure.

I'll give you 1 hour and 14 minutes.

I really cannot fathom a more highly qualified person to suss this out than you - it would be likely impossible for me.

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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 7:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okie dokie, I just scanned thru mountains of SECOND's bullshit, lies, and personal attacks; and GSTRING's lies and personal attacks, and the only two points that came up ... and have since been dropped by our fearful contributors, are

1) Jr's meeting with a Russian, which was apparently something of a dry hole. The meeting failed to rise to the level of "collusion" (whatever that was), and

2) Kushner's four meetings with Russians, in which he did not discuss campaign issues and which also fail to rise to the level of "collusion".


*****

In sum, JEWEL, at this point there doesn't seem to be any "there" there, as far as "Russia" is concerned. But just look back at all of the previous "Russia" allegations that have been dropped ... "golden showers" dossier, the mysterious "pinging" to Trump Tower server, and all of the "contacts" between various people which seem to have not produced any campaign-related results, the DNC "hack" (the FBI never did inspect the server) and all of the other activities which have not been supported by any real evidence or produced any indictments ... it all reveals a pattern: Not a pattern of "collusion" with "RUSSIA!" but a pattern of false allegations.

Hopefully the various committees will continue their investigations and find out the truth.

Thanks a bunch. This is very helpful, and an excellent filter for the other.

Would you mind copying/editing this to the bottom of your OP, or specify the date and time of this post of yours, so peeps who want to visit this thread can have a summary or Table of Contents to guide them?
That would be a valued service.

If something valid does arise at some point, an addition can be annotated at that time.


And no, I am not trying to eliminate the entertainment value of this thread. All 191 posts worth. Nor the 667 posts in the prior thread.
Did you think there were any valid points in that thread? I cannot say that I recall any.

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Wednesday, August 2, 2017 8:48 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Did you think there were any valid points in that thread?-JSF
Only mine, KIKI's and SIX's. And yours, if you posted any.

I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, August 3, 2017 6:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Okie dokie, I just scanned thru mountains of SECOND's bullshit, lies, and personal attacks . . .

You didn't find evidence, but Congress found enough hearsay to force Trump to quietly sign legislation Wednesday that imposes new limits on his ability to lift sanctions against Russia. Trump said that parts of the measure are unconstitutional but that he was signing it for the "sake of national unity."

Russia accused pipsqueak Trump of 'total weakness' for signing sanctions legislation.
www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-russia-sanctions-20170802-story.htm
l


Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has said new sanctions imposed by the US are tantamount to declaring a "full-scale trade war" against Moscow.

He said the measures, signed by Donald Trump, demonstrated the complete impotence of the US president, whom he said had been humiliated by Congress.

Senior Russian parliamentarian Konstantin Kosachev said that Mr Trump was "capitulating" by not standing up to Congress.

Mr Medvedev warned that new steps would follow aimed at removing President Trump - whom he described as a "non-systemic player" - from power. I would have used “confused, ill-informed player”, but whatever.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40809715

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, August 3, 2017 9:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Okie dokie, I just scanned thru mountains of SECOND's bullshit, lies, and personal attacks . . .

White House Says Russia’s Hackers Are Too Good to Be Caught but NSA Partner Called Them “Morons”

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/02/white-house-says-russias-hackers-a
re-too-good-to-be-caught-but-nsa-partner-called-them-morons
/

The hackers behind the dump of Democratic Party emails in the midst of last year’s presidential race left apparent evidence of their identity — a breadcrumb trail winding from the stolen files back to the Russian government, according to assessments from the U.S. intelligence community. Some of this evidence was there from the beginning, embedded inside the first documents to hit the web, raising a niggling question: Why would diabolically skilled Russian operatives operate so sloppily?

This question has persisted, and last week the White House seized upon it, promulgating the idea that if the Russian government were really behind the attacks, its online agents wouldn’t have left any fingerprints. Russia quickly repeated this claim through its UK embassy.

But a 2011 presentation to the NSA and its foreign partners by Canada’s signals intelligence agency, the Communications Security Establishment, undermines the notion of a foreign hacker so skilled that a victim would never know their identity. The document calls Russian hackers “morons” for routinely compromising the security of a “really well designed” system intended to cover their tracks; for example, the hackers logged into their personal social and email accounts through the same anonymizing system used to attack their targets, comparable to getting an anonymous burner phone for illicit use and then placing calls to your girlfriend, parents, and roommate.

The competence of Russian hackers became a prominent issue once more last Sunday, when the president’s communications director Anthony Scaramucci — since removed from his post but quoting the president directly — said the following to Jake Tapper on CNN:

“Somebody said to me yesterday, uh, I won’t tell you who, that if the Russians actually hacked this situation and actually spilled out those emails, you would have never seen it, you would have never had any evidence of them, meaning they’re super confident in their deception skills and hacking.”

Seconds later, Scaramucci revealed his anonymous technical source on the matter to have been Donald Trump himself.

It’s one thing to question circumstantial evidence based on the expectation that Russian agents are too competent to leave such clues behind. But ruling out Russia on the basis of unforced errors alone flies in the face of the intelligence community’s experience with online operators from that country.

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Thursday, August 3, 2017 10:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The hackers behind the dump of Democratic Party emails in the midst of last year’s presidential race left apparent evidence of their identity
Yes, and the FBI knows this .... how??? Because they didn't even get to examine the DNC server.

You DO realize that recently files were offered online (dark web) which were the NSA's hacking toolkit, and among other things it exposed software which can change the "fingerprint" of a file to anyone you want it to be. Russian, Chinese, N Korean, Iranian, Mexican ... it's all available.

There is a report - yes, I know- based on anonymous sources - which have examined the GUCCIFER files.

There is ONE category of evidence that indicates that the files were copied by someone physically at the server, NOT TRANSFERED OVER THE INET, and that is the timestamps associated with each file creation. Because the speed of file creation far exceeds the technical capacity (bandwidth) of the internet. The files apparently were copied by someone physically present onto a flash drive (thumb drive) or external hard drive, not remotely from a distance.

Congress is dumber than you. And YOU'RE a dummy for trusting Congress to be smart. So it's an endless loop of dumminess.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, August 3, 2017 11:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The hackers behind the dump of Democratic Party emails in the midst of last year’s presidential race left apparent evidence of their identity
Yes, and the FBI knows this .... how??? Because they didn't even get to examine the DNC server.

You DO realize that recently files were offered online (dark web) which were the NSA's hacking toolkit, and among other things it exposed software which can change the "fingerprint" of a file to anyone you want it to be. Russian, Chinese, N Korean, Iranian, Mexican ... it's all available.

There is a report - yes, I know- based on anonymous sources - which have examined the GUCCIFER files.

There is ONE category of evidence that indicates that the files were copied by someone physically at the server, NOT TRANSFERED OVER THE INET, and that is the timestamps associated with each file creation. Because the speed of file creation far exceeds the technical capacity (bandwidth) of the internet. The files apparently were copied by someone physically present onto a flash drive (thumb drive) or external hard drive, not remotely from a distance.

Congress is dumber than you. And YOU'RE a dummy for trusting Congress to be smart. So it's an endless loop of dumminess.

Signym, you want evidence before you decide the Russian government's guilt or innocence. But no one will explain the evidence to you because it makes no difference what you decide. On the other hand, Trump has already decided and nobody can change his mind:

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/02/white-house-says-russias-hackers-a
re-too-good-to-be-caught-but-nsa-partner-called-them-morons
/

All of this is to say that the commander-in-chief, privy to the full corpus of intelligence findings provided by the NSA and its allies in the “Five Eyes” intelligence-sharing alliance, including Canada, didn’t know what he was talking about.

This isn’t new: One need only look back to the presidential debate wherein Trump famously remarked that the DNC perpetrator could be a bedridden “400-pound” hacker to know that he hasn’t ever taken this seriously.

It’s also possible, given how fantastically impressionable Trump is, that the Too Good to Fail theory is based on something he heard recently — perhaps from Vladimir Putin himself, who in June speculated that the DNC hacker could’ve easily covered their tracks.

No matter what, if Trump had any desire to actually know how sophisticated Russian state hackers are or have been in the past, the evidence is there for him to review.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, August 3, 2017 11:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Signym, you want evidence before you decide the Russian government's guilt or innocence.
Yep, that's how it's supposed to work, SECOND. EVIDENCE FIRST, THEN A DECISION. Doing anything else is supremely stupid.

Quote:

But no one will explain the evidence to you because it makes no difference what you decide.
No one CAN explain the evidence to me BECAUSE THERE IS NONE.

The FBI hasn't even examined the DNC server. On what grounds can they POSSIBLY know what happened?

As I have linked to experts before (on NPR, even!) who explain that "attribution" is extremely difficult. There is CLEARLY NSA software which can masquerade one source for another; it's splattered all over the dark net and impossible to deny.

But it sure didn't help that the DNC refused to make the server available for examination, and the FBI went along this this because ....??

Unless you can examine the server log timestamps (eg look at the date and rate of file xfer) or you can examine the copied files for the same thing, or look at other physical attributes of the files, or examine badge access records (assuming there were badged locks in place) YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE THAT'S ANY BETTER THAN TOILET PAPER. Unless Julian Assange reveals the source, or the source comes forward him/herself, or a "smoking gun" emerges from the depths of the security state which admits to a false flag, it's entirely possible that we will NEVER know accessed the files.

That bears repetition: It's entirely possible that we will NEVER know accessed the files.

That's the nature of computer hacking, SECOND. Of all of the possible crimes and misdeed to commit, this leaves the least evidence for examination. It could have been anyone, literally. No evidence has emerged which either rules in/out any suspect, especially not even the CIA or NSA itself.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, August 3, 2017 3:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's entirely LOGICAL that you DO NOT know what the FBI and CIA and NSA know or how they know it. You can't possibly unless you work there. You simply have no idea what they are capable of.

I KNOW THEY ARE CAPABLE OF LYING, because they've done it in the past.

And since I know a computer security expert, and I listen to others, I have a much better idea of what is possible and what isn't than you do.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, August 3, 2017 4:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

It's entirely LOGICAL that you DO NOT know what the FBI and CIA and NSA know or how they know it. You can't possibly unless you work there. You simply have no idea what they are capable of.

I KNOW THEY ARE CAPABLE OF LYING, because they've done it in the past.

And since I know a computer security expert, and I listen to others, I have a much better idea of what is possible and what isn't than you do.

Let's pause for a meta break brought to you by Matt Taibbi:

www.vox.com/2017/8/3/16072242/donald-trump-matt-taibbi-interview-scara
mucci


Trump’s election pitch was basically, “Pull the lever for me and you’ll horrify them all.”

From my point of view, Trump looks like a historically incompetent politician. From his voters’ point of view, it's a conspiracy of elites out to get him. So I wouldn't expect to see mass defections anytime soon. Politics is like sports now. I mean, how many sports fans do you know who will pick up the news one morning and say, "You know what? I'm not gonna be a Yankees fan anymore.” They’re Yankees fans for life. And that’s how people are about politics now, certainly more than they were before.

When Trump said last year that he could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and not lose any voters, he was right — and I think that’s probably more true now than it was during the campaign. This entire two-year period has become a pitched cultural battle. People have picked sides, and once you’ve chosen a side, that’s it.

We have a long way to go before we get to the bottom of how bad things could be. I mean, right now it's mostly just amusing. There is no nuclear war or constitutional crisis or troops in the street or financial bubbles bursting or a currency devaluation. Until something terrible happens, it’s just a fucking game for a lot of people.

I was in Russia when the ruble devalued in the early ’90s, and people who’d been saving cash their whole lives in their mattresses woke up one morning and it was all worthless — and it all happened in what felt like overnight. After that, there were catastrophic changes in society happening every 10 seconds. We’re nowhere near this kind of disorder.

We basically have a highly functioning society that is going through a lot of embarrassment. The country hasn’t started to disintegrate yet. Americans who haven't been through the experience of seeing a full-blown collapse of an industrial power have no idea how bad it can get.

Today, I’m not sure how healthy our system is. I know we’re in a very divided time. And we’ve got this maniac in office who probably feels like he can’t leave because he’ll be prosecuted if he does, so his best chance of staying out of trouble is to clutch power like a Third World kleptocrat.

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Thursday, August 3, 2017 4:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh god.

More bullshit and psychologizing from SECOND.

But no actual ... yanno... evidence.

I have an idea, SECOND: You would do RWE a lot better service if you would stop being so devoted to gossip.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, August 3, 2017 5:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh god.

More bullshit and psychologizing from SECOND.

But no actual ... yanno... evidence.

I have an idea, SECOND: You would do RWE a lot better service if you would stop being so devoted to gossip.

Is this gossip, too, because the law has not been passed?

There’s a move afoot in the Senate to prevent President Trump from firing Robert Mueller, the special prosecutor investigating his campaign connections with Russia:

On Thursday, Sens. Thom Tillis (R-NC) and Chris Coons (D-DE), two members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, announced they would introduce a bill to allow Justice Department special counsels, like Mueller, to challenge their removals in court . . . The decision is a preemptive attempt to curtail the president, who has publicly criticized Mueller and derided the Russia investigation.

www.vox.com/2017/8/3/16090436/mueller-trump-bill-senate

In the past week, the Senate has (a) passed a Russia sanctions bill Trump opposes, (b) snubbed Trump’s demand that they keep trying to pass health care reform, (c) spurned Trump’s position on the debt ceiling, and (d) introduced a bill to protect Mueller from possible Trump reprisals.

Do Republicans in the Senate care at all about what Trump says anymore? It doesn’t much seem like it, which is gossip up until the point when the Senate comes after Trump with a meat ax to cut him into little bloody chunks.

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Thursday, August 3, 2017 7:57 PM

THGRRI


Is anyone keeping track? Is anyone keeping track of all the lies SIG has posted on the many different topics she has engaged in, only to be proven wrong in the end?

It would be outstanding to see all the threads in which she was on the wrong of the truth, exposed in a single post. The very thought of it pleases me to no end.






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Friday, August 4, 2017 2:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Is anyone keeping track? Is anyone keeping track of all the lies SIG has posted on the many different topics she has engaged in, only to be proven wrong in the end?
It would be outstanding to see all the threads in which she was on the wrong of the truth, exposed in a single post. The very thought of it pleases me to no end. - THUGR




Well then, get to it!

Start going through all of my posts, find the parts where you think I "lied", and then show where I was wrong. According to you, I lie all the time, so it should be easy! It's not beyond you! Instead of making idle insinuations, stand behind your words, man! Take the time and do it.

I'd be be very interested in what you find.



-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Friday, August 4, 2017 3:33 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Is anyone keeping track? Is anyone keeping track of all the lies SIG has posted on the many different topics she has engaged in, only to be proven wrong in the end?
It would be outstanding to see all the threads in which she was on the wrong of the truth, exposed in a single post. The very thought of it pleases me to no end. - THUGR




Well then, get to it!

Start going through all of my posts, find the parts where you think I "lied", and then show where I was wrong. According to you, I lie all the time, so it should be easy! It's not beyond you! Instead of making idle insinuations, stand behind your words, man! Take the time and do it.

I'd be be very interested in what you find.




Come on SIG. It's damn near every thread you start or partake in.






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Friday, August 4, 2017 4:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Is anyone keeping track? Is anyone keeping track of all the lies SIG has posted on the many different topics she has engaged in, only to be proven wrong in the end?
It would be outstanding to see all the threads in which she was on the wrong of the truth, exposed in a single post. The very thought of it pleases me to no end. - THUGR


Well then, get to it!
Start going through all of my posts, find the parts where you think I "lied", and then show where I was wrong. According to you, I lie all the time, so it should be easy! It's not beyond you! Instead of making idle insinuations, stand behind your words, man! Take the time and do it.
I'd be be very interested in what you find.- SIGNY

Come on SIG. It's damn near every thread you start or partake in. - THUGR

C'mon THUGR. That should make it easy. Or is this yet another one of your completely pointless posts?? So hop to it, my friend. Show that there really IS something behind your (so far) pointless points





-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Friday, August 4, 2017 4:45 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And since I know a computer security expert, and I listen to others, I have a much better idea of what is possible and what isn't than you do.




You KNOW I'm not a computer expert? OR, you KNOW I don't know any computer security experts? You KNOW your computer expert KNOWS what our intel agencies KNOW? How do you KNOW these things? You can't possibly KNOW any of those things. I'm thinking you don't know what the word KNOW means.

==============================



You name a subject and SIG personally knows an expert in the field. Or, if there's a conflict going on she either knows someone caught in the middle, reporting on it, or just fled the area. Every time she makes a claim like that I just laugh. Much like I am now.






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Friday, August 4, 2017 8:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Is anyone keeping track? Is anyone keeping track of all the lies SIG has posted on the many different topics she has engaged in, only to be proven wrong in the end?
It would be outstanding to see all the threads in which she was on the wrong of the truth, exposed in a single post. The very thought of it pleases me to no end. - THUGR


Well then, get to it!
Start going through all of my posts, find the parts where you think I "lied", and then show where I was wrong. According to you, I lie all the time, so it should be easy! It's not beyond you! Instead of making idle insinuations, stand behind your words, man! Take the time and do it.
I'd be be very interested in what you find.- SIGNY

Come on SIG. It's damn near every thread you start or partake in. - THUGR

C'mon THUGR. That should make it easy. Or is this yet another one of your completely pointless posts?? So hop to it, my friend. Show that there really IS something behind your (so far) pointless points





-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581


This is a fair challenge, a throwing down of the gauntlet. Although who could possibly trust Thuggery to decipher truth amongst all his BS?
But since Siggy has already just proven that it was possible to wade through piles of BS to find the nuggets of truth buried within, it seems only fair that the side opposed to truth attempt to do the same exercise.

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Friday, August 4, 2017 8:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Siggy, I see in your OP that you feel the deficit should be reduced. Do you think that the Debt Ceiling should be increased again, particularly in a few months to maintain the every-year-occurance streak?

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Friday, August 4, 2017 8:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Signym, you want evidence before you decide the Russian government's guilt or innocence.
Yep, that's how it's supposed to work, SECOND. EVIDENCE FIRST, THEN A DECISION. Doing anything else is supremely stupid.

Quote:

But no one will explain the evidence to you because it makes no difference what you decide.
No one CAN explain the evidence to me BECAUSE THERE IS NONE.

The FBI hasn't even examined the DNC server. On what grounds can they POSSIBLY know what happened?

As I have linked to experts before (on NPR, even!) who explain that "attribution" is extremely difficult. There is CLEARLY NSA software which can masquerade one source for another; it's splattered all over the dark net and impossible to deny.

But it sure didn't help that the DNC refused to make the server available for examination, and the FBI went along this this because ....??

Unless you can examine the server log timestamps (eg look at the date and rate of file xfer) or you can examine the copied files for the same thing, or look at other physical attributes of the files, or examine badge access records (assuming there were badged locks in place) YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE THAT'S ANY BETTER THAN TOILET PAPER. Unless Julian Assange reveals the source, or the source comes forward him/herself, or a "smoking gun" emerges from the depths of the security state which admits to a false flag, it's entirely possible that we will NEVER know accessed the files.

That bears repetition: It's entirely possible that we will NEVER know accessed the files.

That's the nature of computer hacking, SECOND. Of all of the possible crimes and misdeed to commit, this leaves the least evidence for examination. It could have been anyone, literally. No evidence has emerged which either rules in/out any suspect, especially not even the CIA or NSA itself.

But how can you tailor the evidence to be selected if you don't already have a predetermined conclusion?

Not having a predetermined conclusion and suffering the whims of unfiltered evidence is like using science or logic to formulate your results - like conservatives. Can't allow that, now can we?

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Friday, August 4, 2017 8:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think the debt should be REDUCED, starting with CIA, NSA, and State Dept budgets and moving on to big-ticket items like the F-35 and our endless wars.

-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Friday, August 4, 2017 8:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You name a subject and SIG personally knows an expert in the field. Or, if there's a conflict going on she either knows someone caught in the middle, reporting on it, or just fled the area.
I guess I know a lot more intelligent people than you do!

Here's the thing: Hubby works for a major private university and he's prolly the smartest man any of you could ever hope to meet. In addition, I know a Canadian who has a near-eidetic memory who is a "people-collector", and he did what people like that do ... he went into journalism. Not only did he live on a kibbutz (just in case you don't know, that's Israel) and learn Hebrew and was politically active there, he also lived in Egypt and learned a smattering of Arabic, he lived briefly in Nicaragua, and was for a while an able-bodied seaman on Great Lakes bulk freighters. He knows (among other people) the XXX station chief in one our major mideast ally nations, political activists in Indonesia, and political activists across Canada. During hsi college years, which was many years ago, he even crossed paths with Vandana Shiva. I will ask him if I can reveal his name.

My lab has employees from Indonesia, Ethiopia, mainland China, Taiwan, India, and Finland, as well as from across the USA. And since we have many student interns and temporary workers passing through, I get to talk to people from Syria, Russia, France, and elsewhere.

Quote:

Every time she makes a claim like that I just laugh. Much like I am now.
YOU know somebody who can access lot of information: ME. KIKI is also very knowledgeable.

But here's the difference between you and me: When I get a chance to hear a perspective that I might not otherwise have encountered, I LISTEN. YOU just plug your ears. And that's why YOU never learn anything.



-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Saturday, August 5, 2017 12:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Trolling with fake quotes and everything.

Yep. Typical - and pathetically stupid and dishonest - GEEBERS.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, August 5, 2017 2:22 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Gawd you're so full of shit:

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Here's the thing: Hubby works for a major private university and he's prolly the smartest man any of you could ever hope to meet.


Sig, I have met at least 2 people in my life who I am confident are smarter than myself, but when visiting a sci-fi fan site I generally consider a greater possibility that somebody lurks with more smarts, compared to the gen pop.
Ii would hope you give us some credit.
Btw those 2 people were not in academia, but academia did recovnize them as I did.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIGNYM - By the way, GSTRING, I condescend and insult you every time I talk to you. I'm a total hypocrite."
And voila! I just did!


G, pretending to quote somebody while falsifying the quote without notation does not reflect well upon you. Or maybe that's the only way you know how to argue.

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Saturday, August 5, 2017 7:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:



Here's the thing: Hubby works for a major private university and he's prolly the smartest man any of you could ever hope to meet. - SIGNY

How do you know who I know? How do you know who any of us know? Pathetic.- GSTRING

Well GSTRING, if you or THUGR know anybody who knows anything about anything, you've made very poor use of that resource. So far, none of your arguments reveal any depth of knowledge about anything, not even secondhand.

Quote:

In addition, I know a Canadian who has a near-eidetic memory who is a "people-collector", and he did what people like that do ... he went into journalism. Not only did he live on a kibbutz (just in case you don't know, that's Israel) and learn Hebrew and was politically active there, he also lived in Egypt and learned a smattering of Arabic, he lived briefly in Nicaragua, and was for a while an able-bodied seaman on Great Lakes bulk freighters. He knows (among other people) the XXX station chief in one our major mideast ally nations, political activists in Indonesia, and political activists across Canada. During his college years, which was many years ago, he even crossed paths with Vandana Shiva. I will ask him if I can reveal his name.- SIGNY

You want to reveal someone's name who may not want you to so you can feel big? Pathetic.- GSTRING

He's been pretty open about who he is and what he does. You can't be politically active and not WANT to get your name "out there" because that's part of an activist's advertising. Plus, this guy is just a giant extrovert. But yanno what? I won't bother asking, and you'll just have to wonder who he is.
Quote:

My lab has employees from Indonesia, Ethiopia, mainland China, Taiwan, India, and Finland, as well as from across the USA. And since we have many student interns and temporary workers passing through, I get to talk to people from Syria, Russia, France, and elsewhere.- SIGNY

So? You ever work for someone? Were you always honest with them or did you tell them what they wanted to hear? I imagine people working for you are like, "tell her what she wants to hear so she'll stfu."- GSTRING

Actually, none of these people work for me. I don't express my opinion on politics, religion, or sex, or anything other "sensitive" topic with any of my staff because (1) it's against policy and (2) I'm not a jerk. I also tend not to express my opinion to anyone anyway because we all need to be able to work together, so most people don't know a damn thing about what I think about politics or anything else. And quite often these other people tell me surprising things.

Quote:

But here's the difference between you and me: When I get a chance to hear a perspective that I might not otherwise have encountered, I LISTEN. YOU just plug your ears. And that's why YOU never learn anything. - SIGNY

I listened to you before you went Putin crazy, you said some pretty cool things. Since then though you've been total horsesh*t. I learned you presume everyone else here is beneath you, - GSTRING.

The only people who I think are beneath me are the people who can't tell the difference between a discussion and a personal attack. In case you missed it: That's YOU, son. You have NEVER .... and I mean NEVER .... managed to make your way through a half of a post without insulting someone personally. You really should look into that.

Quote:

and you never say a critical thing about Putin. - GSTRING
Dood, aren't you the person who's posted that talking about Russia is just a distraction from our real problems?

Well, I agree!

Since WE caused most of our own problems, I can't imagine why we should focus anywhere but here for the solution. So why should I focus on some other country? I have no interest in doing your little dance-around-the-fire about Russia, so I don't join in.

Quote:

By the way, GSTRING, I really do try to stick to the topic every time I talk to you. It's too bad you can't figure out how to talk to people without insulting them at every oppty


-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Saturday, August 5, 2017 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Roman Theory 101 and Trump

By Richard Cherwitz

Many of the ways we argue about topics in politics and law have their roots in antiquity — and specifically in classical theories of rhetoric. While we think our discourse today is unique to the times and circumstances in which we live, the reality is that patterns of thinking and talking are inherent in the human condition and therefore may be time-invariant.

Case in point: I am a college professor who teaches Argumentation & Advocacy, a class comprised of dozens of students who eventually become lawyers. In this course students study the Roman concept of “stasis” — a theory delineating all of the issues attorneys in Roman times drew upon to determine whether someone is guilty.

Students learn that, while the Romans couldn’t have predicted the specific content about which we argue in the 21st century, their notion of stasis is applicable, informative and anticipated accurately how we argue today.

Consider the three major points of stasis detailed by the Romans. First are “questions of fact.” This question asks: Did the accused commit the act or do the deed? This is a factual, not a legal question. Second are “questions of definition or interpretation.” Here, attorneys ask: Does the act or deed constitute and meet the definition of the crime? This is a legal question. Finally are “questions of quality or justification.” Put differently: Is there partial or absolute justification explaining why the accused may have committed the deed?

The Romans made clear that several sub-issues help answer the first point of stasis, questions of fact. For example: Is their circumstantial evidence (the place, time and duration of the act) or motives that implicate the accused? In addition, is there past proof (what the accused did or said prior to the act), contemporaneous proof (what was done or said simultaneous to the act) or subsequent proof (evidence such as blood, finger prints obtained after the act occurred) suggesting the accused did the deed?

But there is one sub-issue particularly enlightening in 2017. It was called “argument from consequence.” Roman lawyers often asked: Does the accused person’s behavior show signs or consequences of guilt? In the case of recent allegations made about President Donald Trump, argument from consequence is telling and a paradigmatic example of the applicability of the Roman theory of stasis.

In the past few months Trump has admitted that he fired FBI director James Comey because of the Russian investigation. In his tweets there are numerous examples of inconsistency where Trump contradicted what members of his own administration said.

Revelations in recent weeks perhaps are the most curious. Trump asked his advisers about the rules pertaining to presidential pardons and doubled down on his efforts to undermine the investigation by the special prosecutor. Although some find all of this innocuous, many people wonder whether Trump’s actions and words expose a person who did things that are wrong and perhaps illegal — someone who shows the “consequences” of guilt.

Many legal observers and members of the media reasonably ask: If Trump isn’t guilty of wrongdoing and subsequently covering it up, why would he say and do the things he does? After all, as the Romans knew, perhaps only a guilty person would behave that way?

While the argument from consequence does not in and of itself prove that Trump is guilty, it is extremely relevant and informative. Hence, it underscores why we should remind ourselves and our students that the ways people think and argue are deeply rooted in the human condition and are explained by philosophers thousands of years ago.

www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Cherwitz-A-Trump-cove
rup-Look-to-the-Romans-11735528.php


Cherwitz is the Ernest S. Sharpe Centennial Professor in the Moody College of Communication, as well as Founder and Director of the Intellectual Entrepreneurship Consortium (IE) at the University of Texas at Austin.

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Saturday, August 5, 2017 1:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Because we need to apply Roman-imperial law to Trump instead of American-constitutional law !

Whatever, SECOND.

Hey! I have an idea! Why don't you just keep spinning your wheels and digging yourself into your ever-deepening, mendacious, self-serving rut. What's that you say? You already are? Well then!


Carry on.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, August 5, 2017 1:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Because we need to apply Roman-imperial law to Trump instead of American-constitutional law !

Whatever, SECOND.

Hey! I have an idea! Why don't you just keep spinning your wheels and digging yourself into your ever-deepening, mendacious, self-serving rut. What's that you say? You already are? Well then!


Carry on.

1kiki, there are five types of Trump backers. Which kind are you? And how did you get there from being a Bernie Sanders supporter a year ago? I only ask because you might be a rare type 6, where you're the only known member of that type.

The 5 types of Trump voter: How a fractured coalition can lead to broken promises
By Emily Ekins, 08/05/17 07:00 AM EDT

1) One group of Trump backers, whom I call American Preservationists, comprise Trump’s core base of supporters who propelled him through the primaries. They have lower incomes and education and are underemployed. Nearly half of those working age are on Medicaid. Out of step with Republican orthodoxy, Preservationists favor tax hikes on the wealthy, are deeply skeptical of immigration — both legal and illegal — and overwhelmingly support a temporary ban on Muslim immigration. They also feel less favorable toward immigrants and racial minorities, and nearly half think being of European descent is important for being truly American.

2) Free Marketeers are 25 percent of Trump’s backers and they are the mirror image of American Preservationists, having the highest incomes and education levels. They are most skeptical of Trump, with most saying they voted against Hillary Clinton rather than for Trump. In contrast to the Preservationists, these are small government fiscal conservatives who embrace free trade. At the same time, they are as likely as Democrats to have warm feelings toward immigrants and racial minorities, and to support making legal immigration easier.

3) The largest Trump voter group is the Staunch Conservatives. They are 31 percent of his support and were the group that combined with the American Preservationists to give Trump the Republican nomination. They are loyal Republicans with conventionally conservative positions on social and economic issues. They also have warm feelings toward racial minorities in the U.S. However, although not as hardline as the Preservationists, they too are skeptical of immigration and strongly support a temporary travel ban on Muslims traveling to the U.S.

4) Had Anti-Elites, 19 percent of his voters, not turned against Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump may have lost the presidency. About half had positive views toward Clinton just four years ago. They support a more progressive tax code, a plurality support a pathway to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants, and they are as favorable toward racial minorities as non-Trump voters. Why aren’t the Anti-Elites Democrats? In addition to sharing Trump’s disdain for elites, they soured significantly on Hillary between 2012 and 2016 and are more cautious of immigration than Clinton.

5) Finally, the Disengaged (5 percent) is a small Trump voter group. They don’t know much about politics but what they do know is they are skeptical of immigration and believe the system is rigged against them.

Recognizing Trump’s diverse coalition helps explain why Republicans are having difficulty governing in Washington today.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/345412-opinio
n-the-5-types-of-trump-voter-how-a-fractured

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