REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Trump USA : Putin Russia

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, July 17, 2017 16:13
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Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


REUTERS

Quote:

In a meeting that ran longer than either side had planned, U.S. President Donald Trump and Russia's Vladimir Putin discussed alleged Russian meddling in the U.S. election on Friday but agreed to focus on better ties rather than litigating the past.

Trump, a Republican who called it an "honor" to meet with the Russian president, drew swift criticism from Democrats at home, who accused him of dismissing U.S. intelligence and giving Putin's denial, reiterated on Friday, of Russian interference too much weight.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told reporters at a summit of leaders of the Group of 20 major economies in Hamburg that Trump had "positive chemistry" with Putin during the meeting, which lasted some two hours and 15 minutes.

He opened their discussion by pressing Putin about "the concerns of the American people regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election" and had a robust exchange, Tillerson said.

The Russian president has denied any meddling in the U.S. democratic process last year and Moscow has asked for proof that it took place. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Trump accepted Putin's assertions that the allegations, backed by U.S. intelligence agencies, were false.

Tillerson said they both sought to move on.

"The presidents rightly focused on how do we move forward from what may be simply an intractable disagreement at this point," Tillerson said.

That explanation did not sit well with Democrats.

“Working to compromise the integrity of our election process cannot and should not be an area where ‘agree to disagree’ is an acceptable conclusion," said U.S. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer in a statement.

On Thursday in Poland Trump gave lukewarm support to the view that Moscow interfered in the 2016 U.S. political process.

Trump promised a rapprochement with Moscow during his campaign but has been unable to deliver because his administration has been dogged by investigations into the allegations of Russian interference in the election and ties with his campaign.

Trump says his team did not collude with Russia.

Tillerson said they agreed to work on commitments of "non-interference in the affairs of the United States and our democratic process as well as those in other countries."

Andrew Weiss, a former National Security Council official responsible for Russia, said Trump had sent the wrong signal with upbeat body language and by not pushing Putin harder on alleged Russian interference in the U.S. presidential election.

"The atmospherics were chummy," said Weiss, who is now at Washington's Carnegie Endowment for International Peace think tank in Washington. "The clear push from Trump to normalize U.S.-Russian relations was on display in the meeting."

"GOING VERY WELL"

The two leaders spent a lot of time discussing Syria, and after their meeting an agreement between the United States, Russia and Jordan on a ceasefire in southwestern Syria was announced.

The face-to-face encounter was one of the most eagerly anticipated meetings between two leaders in years.

Trump and Putin spoke through translators with their respective foreign ministers present for six minutes before reporters were allowed into the room for their statements. Afterwards the reporters were ushered out and the meeting continued.

"President Putin and I have been discussing various things, and I think it's going very well," Trump told reporters, sitting alongside the Russian leader.

"We've had some very, very good talks. ... We look forward to a lot of very positive things happening for Russia, for the United States and for everybody concerned. And it's an honor to be with you."

Putin, through a translator, said: "We spoke over the phone with you several times," adding: "A phone conversation is never enough."

"I am delighted to be able to meet you personally, Mr. President," he said, noting that he hoped the meeting would yield results.

Both men sat with legs splayed. Trump listened intently as Putin spoke.

The encounter went longer than expected, and first lady Melania Trump came in at one point to urge them to conclude, Tillerson said. The two men later joined other G20 leaders at a concert. Mrs. Trump sat next to Putin at dinner.

Before the get-together, some feared the U.S. president, a political novice whose team is still developing its Russia policy, would be less prepared for the talks than Putin, a former KGB agent who has dealt with previous U.S. presidents and scores of other world leaders.

Amid criticism of Russia's actions in Ukraine and Syria and the investigations into its role in the U.S. campaign, Trump has come under growing pressure to take a hard line against the Kremlin.

On Thursday, Trump delivered some of his sharpest remarks about Moscow since becoming president, urging Russia to stop its "destabilizing activities" and end its support for Syria and Iran.

But Trump stopped short on Thursday of any personal criticism of Putin and declined to say definitively whether he believed U.S. intelligence officials' assertion that Russia had interfered in the 2016 U.S. election.

"I think it was Russia but I think it was probably other people and/or countries, and I see nothing wrong with that statement. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure,” Trump said on a visit to Poland.



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g20-germany-trump-putin-talks-idUSKB
N19S24E


So, just as an aside, Trump thought the meeting with Xi Jingping in Mar a Lago went well, too, but now he's pissed off that trade between China and N Korea actually INcreased (they say) after Trump appealed to China for help.


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Saturday, July 8, 2017 12:42 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

“Working to compromise the integrity of our election process cannot and should not be an area where ‘agree to disagree’ is an acceptable conclusion," said U.S. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer in a statement.



I agree, Chuck.

Maybe somebody should, I dunno.... supply some evidence that this even happened maybe?

CNN can dox some random schmuck in 2 hours, but after 6 months of crying about it nobody has provided any evidence of Russian interference?



How many votes have you decided to not even bother showing up for during your tenure, Chuck? Too much shit to do while leeching off of the tax payers in your nice cushy life?

Maybe you should do some investigating yourself with all that free time.

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Sunday, July 9, 2017 2:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I heard Schumer broadcast/ quoted at length saying pretty much the same thing on a local all-news radio station here in So Cal. AS USUAL, he had no more evidence than anyone else in the past making the same claim, which is zero.

What I take from that is that that's going to be the democratic line ... because ... Russia!

The election is questionable ... because ... Russia! The US can't 'fight ISIS' in Syria .. because ... Russia! Trump is going to torpedo NATO alliances ... because ... Russia!

More to my interest, the corrupt, war-mongering democratic party is going to ride the race to the bottom, without relevant ideas for the voters ... because ... Russia!


OTOH the Trump administration seems to be hiding behind a cloud of conflicting and ambiguous statements. Nikki Haley - US ambassador to the UN - said 'everyone knows' Russia hacked the election.

I don't pay much attention to what the Trump admin says, and far more to what it does. But like in the Obama admin, the president doesn't seem to be running foreign policy. And what's the point of obscuring the situation with an inkcloud of conflicting camouflage? It only helps the deep state.






Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 9, 2017 5:33 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nikki Haley - US ambassador to the UN - said 'everyone knows' Russia hacked the election.



Did you see or hear her say this, or was it written?

I only ask because obviously there are several ways that sentence could be said and they totally change the meaning. Hard to form an opinion on that without context.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 12:39 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


definitively, seriously, and at length making that point






Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 1:08 AM

THGRRI









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Monday, July 10, 2017 1:14 AM

THGRRI









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Monday, July 10, 2017 1:22 AM

THGRRI









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Monday, July 10, 2017 1:30 AM

THGRRI









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Monday, July 10, 2017 3:02 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
definitively, seriously, and at length making that point



lol... that's erm... interesting.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 4:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I suspect that many of Trump's appointees are ghafla. I think Trump believes himself and only a few chosen partners are of consequence, and therefore the rest of them can flap their lips but should not be paid much attention. Hence, Nikki.

SYRIA
As far as I can tell, the southwest ceasefire is holding. I find it an odd place for a ceasefire, partly because Israel borders that area and has fired into Syria lately. Is the USA going to guarantee Israel's good behavior?? BTW, I've heard the same thing from two people: Israel's continued hold on the (Syrian) Golan Heights, and it's further designs on SW Syria are for water, not military advantage. https://syria.liveuamap.com/

But apparently the cease-fire doesn't mean that the USA is reducing its anti-Assad, pro-jihadi activities elsewhere, as Al-Qaeda Allies Receive US-made TOW Missilies In Eastern Ghouta Near Damascus https://southfront.org/al-qaeda-allies-receive-us-made-tow-missilies-i
n-eastern-ghouta-near-damascus
/

CYBERSECURITY
Quote:

Tillerson said they agreed to work on commitments of "non-interference in the affairs of the United States and our democratic process as well as those in other countries."
Well, I bet the idea of non-interference in the democratic processes of other nations really pissed off the CIA. Just limiting the concept to cybersecurity, maybe the best way to enhance it would be for each side to point out the vulnerabilities of the OTHER side.

But in any case, under a barrage of unrelenting criticism from both parties (prompted most likely by deep state and cold warriors) Trump has folded on the idea. Well, with or without Russia, we really REALLY need to work on our cybersecurity. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-09/trump-folds-russia-cybersecur
ity-cooperation






-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Monday, July 10, 2017 11:38 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Aussie news vid



This was particularly observant. "There's a tendency amongst hopeful people to confuse the scripted words with the thoughts of the man himself."
I also appreciated the images of him looking like a lost teenager amongst the grown-ups, trying to look engaged and like he gives a sh*t. Sometimes I get the feeling he knows the jig is up. That he knows he's done too much and just a matter of time. It also means he can go back to his business world where he IS king and can look back on all of this as all gravy, "I was f*cking president!" It's not like people aren't going to be $curious about him for the rest of his life.

==============================



More and more it is becoming obvious Trump is doing what he is doing because he knows Putin can ruin him financially. He would rather take on the whole world than fuck with Putin. Because of his ignorance on how this country works he is boxed in now. Because he is a coward he is boxed in.






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Monday, July 17, 2017 4:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


As predicted; Israel becomes the fly in the Syrian cease-fire ointment.

Quote:

Israel Rejects Cease-fire Deal Between U.S. And Russia In South Syria

One month after the WSJ reported that Israel had been secretly funding the Syrian rebel opposition to Assad's regime for years in hopes of keeping the Syrian political situation unstable and preventing the Syrian - and Iranian - regime's military from becoming a substantial threat, overnight Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told reporters after his meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron on Sunday that Israel opposes the cease-fire agreement in southern Syria that the United States and Russia reached "because it perpetuates the Iranian presence in the country."

Quoted by Haaretz, a senior Israeli official said Israel "is aware of Iranian intentions to substantially expand its presence in Syria", and added that Iran is not only interested in sending advisers to Syria but also in dispatching extensive military forces including the establishment of an airbase for Iranian aircraft and a naval base. "This already changes the picture in the region from what it has been up to now," the official said.

Which considering that most if not all of Syria's victories in the ongoing parallel proxy wars with both ISIS and the various "moderate" and not so "moderate" rebel groups were courtesy of Iran and specifically the IRGC, is to be expected. Still, by openly voicing his opposition to one of the most significant moves the United States and Russia have made in Syria in recent months, Netanyahu made public a major disagreement between Israel and the two great powers that had until now been kept under wraps and expressed only through quiet diplomatic channels. Netanyahu said he had discussed the cease-fire deal with U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson by phone Sunday night.

As a reminder, Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin agreed on the cease-fire on the sidelines of the G20 summit in Hamburg last week. In a tweet published shortly after the truce came into effect last week, Trump tweeted: "We negotiated a ceasefire in parts of Syria which will save lives. Now it is time to move forward in working constructively with Russia!"

One week later, however, the truce faces the daunting hurdle of Trump's biggest ally in the region openly opposing what may be the US president's biggest diplomatic achievement to date.

In addition to the ceasefire, the U.S.-Russian deal included establishing de-escalation zones, otherwise known as safe zones, along Syria’s borders with both Jordan and Israel.

According to Haaretz, over the past month, Israel had held talks on this agreement with senior American officials, including Brett McGurk, America’s special envoy for the battle against ISIS, and Michael Ratney, the special envoy for Syria, both of whom visited Israel several times. During these talks, Israel presented a list of demands and voiced several reservations about the emerging agreement. Among others, Israel said that the de-escalation zones must keep Iran, Hezbollah and other Shi’ite militias away from the Israeli and Jordanian borders and must not enable Iran to consolidate its presence in Syria. Israel also told the Americans it objected to having Russian troops policing the cease-fire in the safe zones near its border.

Curiously, Haaretz notes that Israel was a vocal member of the negotiations that took place over the Syrian ceasefire, and in the days before the United States and Russia announced the cease-fire deal for southern Syria, Netanyahu spoke by telephone with both Tillerson and Russian President Vladimir Putin to reiterate Israel’s positions on the agreement. At the start of the cabinet meeting on July 9, Netanyahu said that both Putin and Tillerson had told him they understand Israel’s position and will take its requirements into account. However, when Jerusalem obtained the text of the deal, it discovered to its surprise that the Americans and Russians "had ignored Israel’s positions almost completely."

“The agreement as it is now is very bad” one senior Israeli official said. “It doesn't take almost any of Israel's security interests and it creates a disturbing reality in southern Syria. The agreement doesn’t include a single explicit word about Iran, Hezbollah or the Shi’ite militias in Syria.”

* * *

What Israel's opposition to the Syrian ceasefire means, is unclear. While the deal is surprisingly still holding one week after its implementation, perhaps the longest period of time a Syrian ceasefire has held for the duration of the country's 6-year war, with Israel voicing its non-compliance, it is possible that it will be none other than Netanyahu who breaches the terms of the agreement should Israel feel "threatened" by Hezbollah, or other Shi'ite militias.

Whether that will force Trump to choose between Putin and Netanyahu is open to debate. However, it likely means that now that the Syrian war is slowly fading away, the region's longest-simmering, dominant conflict, that between Iran and Israel, is about to retake its rightful place.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-17/israel-rejects-cease-fire-dea
l-between-us-and-russia-south-syria



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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