REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 08:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2296
PAGE 2 of 2

Wednesday, August 9, 2017 6:50 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Some are trying to claim that it's the USA, not NK, who is " sabre rattling "
The US is sabre rattling in Europe. Despite a half-dozen articles and posts on the topic, and despite the fact that you actually responded to them (did you read any of them at all before you posted?), it looks like you missed the detail about location.




Nope, didn't spend 1/2 my day reading the excessive and absurd amount of links, because - work ? life ?

Fine. US is sabre rattling in Europe. Same thing was said during Reagan's era. Worked out pretty well then. Unless we want Russia to roll over more countries, best we not lay down on our backs and spread our legs.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 7:14 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


No matter what awful things happen because of Trump, Hillary is worse in 1kiki's mind than Trump.
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Hillary Clinton - threatening countries at every turn because only war brings peace.

There is an article explaining 1kiki, Signym and AURaptor: How America Lost Its Mind
The nation’s current post-truth moment is the ultimate expression of mind-sets that have made America exceptional throughout its history.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 7:15 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GSTRING: Oh, boo hoo hoo. So I strawmanned you. And yes, I did it on purpose. For all of the times that you strawmanned me, you got a little of it back. Pobrecito!

Now that THAT'S cleared up, how about putting on your big-boy pants and telling us your opinion: Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?

Yes or no?

Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.




What a worthless lying... I can't imagine why I would try and talk with someone who can't even explain or defend what they said. Cya

==============================



SIG has to admit she was trolling so she passes it off as tit for tat. Only there was no tat. SIG lives in the world of fallacy, presenting false beliefs based on unsound arguments. It's called trolling.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.






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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 8:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hillary is worse than Trump.


Nothing more needs to be said.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 8:53 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.


Nothing more needs to be said.










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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 11:13 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.


Nothing more needs to be said.

Did you read How America Lost Its Mind? Your face is in the illustrations as a protester. Be proud! You've been immortalized as Art with a capital A.
The nation’s current post-truth moment is the ultimate expression of mind-sets that have made America exceptional throughout its history.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 11:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


You are too hard on Trump, AURapture, 1kiki, Signym, etc. They and foreign leaders can’t trust what Trump says. An adversary has no idea whether to take threats from Trump seriously (to say nothing of literally). He’s a man who made empty threats throughout his career, repeatedly suggesting he’d sue people who said and did things he didn’t like. In many cases, he did not follow through. If you’re North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, why should you believe that his threats of force are any more real? Trump’s strategy with North Korea has been compared to Richard Nixon’s “madman theory,” in which the former president wanted enemies to believe he was capable of anything, because he was insane. An equally likely (or even more likely) outcome is that North Korea will conclude that Trump is capable of nothing, based on past results. Big bag of hot air Trump.

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/trump-makes-his-case-in-p
ittsburgh/501335
/

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 11:50 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey there SLOPPY SECONDS!

"No matter what awful things happen because of Trump, Hillary is worse in 1kiki's mind than Trump."

Strawman! Try again.


But try and be a little more honest this time.






Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 12:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, to get back to our current situation IN REAL LIFE ...

No politician (not even Saint Hillary) has treated NK as anything less than a political opportunity to boost their own brand by taking aim at the country. But enough about NK. It's not a real problem, though it sure is good advertising.

In the background, the RUSSIA !!! program is moving forward, which is far more dangerous.

More later.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 1:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


She definitely subscribes to the concept of lying as a standard form of communication and a perfectly acceptable way to achieve one's goals. Selfish and small to say the least.- GSTRING



Well then, GSTRING, speak up for yourself man! Tell us what you think!

Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?

Yes or no?

Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.


-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 8:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


She definitely subscribes to the concept of lying as a standard form of communication and a perfectly acceptable way to achieve one's goals. Selfish and small to say the least.- GSTRING]

Well then, GSTRING, speak up for yourself man! Tell us what you think!
Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.- SIGNY


I haven't *answered* because it's unanswerable. It's. A. Stupid. Question. Should everyone be honest? The "answer" is the same for both. Sure! "But what about if being honest kills someone?" Uhhhh... and on and on. Your question as stated is worthless and doesn't acknowledge how much difficulty and nuance and subtly and variations there are to the subject.

OMFG. GSTRING can actually engage in a topical discussion, and not just troll! Whooda thunk?

Quote:

It will be my pleasure to ignore all your further attempts at a response.- GSTRING
Too bad! I have some questions about what you said! But you refuse to discuss anything like an adult.




-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 11:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.


Nothing more needs to be said.

Did you read How America Lost Its Mind? Your face is in the illustrations as a protester. Be proud! You've been immortalized as Art with a capital A.

The nation’s current post-truth moment is the ultimate expression of mind-sets that have made America exceptional throughout its history.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231





Pretty impossible as I've never protested anything.

The illegal immigration crisis has been 30+ years in the making. More , actually, since the '86 Immigration bill was itself a ' after the fact' lame attempt to deal w/ the problem back then. And that law was every bit a sham as the efforts are today, the ACA, and damn near every domestic policy that's come out of D.C. since the 60's.


But keep ignoring the problem. I'm sure you'll wake up one day and everything will be awesome !

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Wednesday, August 9, 2017 11:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.



Yeah, we suck mightily - there was no great choice (an obvious one for me, but still not great).

Just for fun: If Hillary's daughter had met with Russians because they sent her an email "we have dirt on Trump" and then she lied about it, and then she lied several more times about who was there, and others in her family lied, and her campaign manager lied, and then Hillary's AG lied about meeting with Russians, and then she had to fire her appointed head of national security because he'd been meeting with Russians... and lied about it and then Hillary fired the head of the FBI because he was looking into her connections with Russians that she'd lied about... you see where I'm going, right? She'd be long gone by now.

==============================



Hillary lied about actual matters, concerning Benghazi ( where Americans got killed ) about her private server ( illegal ) about the handling of top secret documents ( hacked by many , not just " Russians " ) , about 10's of 1000's of e-mails she was SUPPOSE to hand over, as they were property of the US Government , and she destroyed, which is...oh, a FEDERAL CRIME.....

Everyone met w/ Russians, for all manner of reasons. So fucking what ? You're being bat shit crazy about this, and I'm getting pretty fucking sick of the Left / #NeverTrumpers ignoring real crimes while trying to blame others for things which aren't illegal.

Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.

Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 7:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.

Trump’s staff don’t even see him as President. They see him as Problem:

White House officials take issue with “people on TV who know nothing about North Korea” interpreting Trump’s “fire & fury” as nuclear escalation.

Goodness. How could the MSM interpret “fire and fury like the world has never seen” as a nuclear attack? Trump was just talking about, um, a new and improved kind of napalm.

Meanwhile, Rex Tillerson is telling us that the US is totally willing to talk things over with the North Koreans: “I think the president just wanted to be clear to the North Korean regime that the U.S. has the unquestionable ability to defend itself, will defend itself and its allies, and I think it was important that he deliver that message to avoid any miscalculation on their part.”

Trump’s just some doddering, senile old fool wetting himself or crapping in his pants in public. His staff has to clean his clothes and give him a bath to rid the world of Trump’s stink.

Shall we watch Trump do it again?


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Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:14 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by G:

That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.

Continuing the theme of saber rattling and Trump: Fact-checking Donald Trump's misleading tweet about U.S. nuclear arsenal
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/aug/09/donald-trump/u
nder-donald-trump-us-nuclear-arsenal-far-stronger
/

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:07 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hillary Clinton - threatening countries at every turn because only war brings peace.

"Democrats will push back against North Korean aggression and press China to play by the rules."


Donald Trump just threatened N Korea with "fire and fury" but you're right, the language in the Dem's platform is more provocative

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, August 10, 2017 12:52 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.



That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.

==============================



He's your president too. Get over yourself.

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 1:11 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?

Yes or no?


If everyone does it? Sure. But I don't know in what world you think Russia, N Korea, Israel, etc would give up theirs.

Bit of a pointless question really?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, August 10, 2017 1:23 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

And stop provoking Russia in an insane game of nuclear chicken.


Bring me up to speed. The insane provocation of Russia is...? I dealt with the whole NATO expansion thing in the Putin's long game thread. So what else? Sanctions on Russia for its aggression in Ukraine? Sanctions and confiscation of its diplomatic/spy compounds for its election meddling? Your imagined CIA coup in Ukraine? Some Soros-funded Clinton-led conspiracy to overthrow Putin?


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:19 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.



That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.

==============================



He's your president too. Get over yourself.



Try reading today maybe? I said, "he's our president" right there, in English.

==============================



I just quoted you. Read the last sentence. You even put it in caps.

Quote:

YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.


My reading is just fine.

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 4:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.



That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.

==============================



Ya didn't mind the obvious compulsive liar that was Hillary or Obama, so why the hell should you worry about it now ? Complete double standard, only to date, NONE of Trump's comments have involved massive new tax burdens and blatant fabrications on policy.

I don't give a damn about the globe, as long as Trump delivers on his policy. Damaged goods that he is, we didn't elect a freaking choir boy.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Ya didn't mind the obvious compulsive liar that was Hillary or Obama, so why the hell should you worry about it now ? Complete double standard, only to date, NONE of Trump's comments have involved massive new tax burdens and blatant fabrications on policy.

I don't give a damn about the globe, as long as Trump delivers on his policy. Damaged goods that he is, we didn't elect a freaking choir boy.

From Scientific American: Donald Trump said he aspires to be “unpredictable” in how he might use nuclear weapons and Trump can do it all by himself without consulting anybody. Even in the unlikely event that Russia launched a preemptive attack on the U.S. — and had more nuclear capability than current international agreements allow for — it “would have little to no effect on the U.S. assured second-strike capabilities.” That conclusion suggests that we will have ample firepower even if two or more people discuss how to use it. But Trump does not have to talk to anyone about anything before it's bombs away.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-one-should-have-sole-authority-t
o-launch-a-nuclear-attack
/

Trump issued a new threat to North Korea on Thursday, demanding that Kim Jong Un’s government “get their act together” or face extraordinary trouble. He said his previous “fire and fury” warning to Pyongyang might have been too mild.

“Maybe that statement wasn’t tough enough,” Trump said. “Things will happen to them like they never thought possible, OK?” It is so good to know that such a rock-steady man has his finger on the button.

https://apnews.com/74ed5e07efc94759ba335a51e80de6dc/In-new-threat,-Tru
mp-demands-NKorea-%27get-their-act-together%27

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Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I think Trump will play crazy against a crazy guy like Kim, but at the end of the day, he'll listen to the likes of Mattis, whom he ( Trump ) respects immensely.

I do share Trump's view, that NK has been playing the US, over the past 20+ years, and now we're at a point where we are BECAUSE of the sins of inaction , by both D's and R's.


New sheriff in town.

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Friday, August 11, 2017 6:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

New sheriff in town.

The new sheriff is about to meet the guy who kills sheriffs for a living: Meet Kim Jong-un, Moody Young Man With Nuclear Arms
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/meet-kim-jong-un-moody-young-man-with-nuc
lear-arms/ar-AApQ6YI


As Inara said to Mal, "You cannot handle this man."
The Man, the Operative, came damn close to killing them all.

Kim Jong-un, the 33-year-old leader of North Korea, has long been underestimated. Mr. Kim was the youngest of three sons yet leapfrogged his brothers to succeed his father, Kim Jong-il. Many analysts dismissed him as an inexperienced figurehead when he took power at 27; some predicted he would never last. But almost six years later, there is little doubt he is firmly in control.

“He moved quickly and ruthlessly,” said Daniel A. Pinkston, a Seoul-based professor of international relations at Troy University. “I think most people did not expect a man so young to be so proficient at managing his dictatorship.”

South Korean intelligence officials say Mr. Kim has executed scores of senior officials, including his own uncle, a wily power broker who had been seen as his mentor. He is also assumed to have ordered the assassination of his half brother, who was poisoned by VX nerve agent at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia in February.

“Smart, pragmatic, decisive,” Andrei Lankov, a North Korea expert at Kookmin University in Seoul, said of Mr. Kim. “But also capricious, moody and ready to kill easily.”

One subject on which Mr. Kim has not wavered is the nuclear program. His father held out the possibility of scrapping the program in return for economic aid and security guarantees and even struck a deal with the Clinton administration, though the North later violated it. But Mr. Kim has taken a more aggressive approach.

Three of North Korea’s five nuclear tests have come under his watch, and there are signs that the country is preparing for another one. North Korea has also conducted about 80 missile tests under Mr. Kim, more than twice as many as under his father and grandfather combined.

Outside North Korea, many assumed Mr. Kim was the supreme leader in name only, with real power in the hands of Jang Song-thaek, his uncle and regent. Mr. Jang appeared to help his nephew carry out a systematic purge, replacing many of the nation’s most powerful generals and bureaucrats, according to South Korean intelligence officials.

But two years into his rule, Mr. Kim moved against his uncle, too, arranging for him to be arrested by uniformed officers during a Politburo meeting while hundreds of party delegates watched. Mr. Jang was executed on charges that included clapping “halfheartedly” when Mr. Kim entered the room and plotting to overthrow him.

Cheong Seong-chang, an expert on the Kim family at the Sejong Institute, said high-level North Korean defectors told him that Mr. Jang had as many as 20 children and that Mr. Kim had them all killed.

The purge continued with a new focus on rooting out those loyal to Mr. Jang. Many were executed with antiaircraft machine guns after members of the ruling elite were brought in by trucks to be witnesses, South Korean intelligence officials said.

“Kim Jong-un is here to rule for decades, playing the long game,” said Mr. Koh, the Dongguk University professor. “Over time, he believes that the world will have no option but to accept his country as a nuclear power.”

Analysts say it may be difficult for Mr. Kim to back down in the face of foreign pressure, especially on the nuclear issue, given how closely he is associated with the program.

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Friday, August 11, 2017 6:28 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I think Trump will play crazy against a crazy guy like Kim, but at the end of the day, he'll listen to the likes of Mattis, whom he ( Trump ) respects immensely.

I do share Trump's view, that NK has been playing the US, over the past 20+ years, and now we're at a point where we are BECAUSE of the sins of inaction , by both D's and R's.


New sheriff in town.


I largely agree with the assessment of past administrations kicking the can down the road. But at some point the calculus becomes "we're better off living with a nuclear N Korea than going to war with them". I think we're probably several years past that point.

I'm not sure what Trump's crazy rhetoric is supposed to achieve. Does anyone think that the N Koreans are going to be bluffed into halting or abandoning their nuclear program? It's another example of our new sheriff 'speaking loudly and carrying a small stick'.

And guys, can we all just take a moment to feel sorry for 1kiki? She started this thread on nuclear brinksmanship to argue about how we should stop being mean to Russia, but in the end we're all just talking about N Korea

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Friday, August 11, 2017 7:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Trump's ' crazy ' talk has yielded the UN in yet another 15-0 resolution against Lil' Kim. Yes, Russia and China are on board. Also, it's been reported that China will risk a financial hit in backing the UN resolution over siding w/ the fat kid.


Actions, folks, speak louder than words. While Trump is waving with his right hand, making noise and all, the media are totally oblivious to what's actually happening.

Why ? Oh, I think we know the reason for that.

" Our job tonight is to actually scare people to death on this subject "




Fucking REALLY ???



Was that what the media were saying about Kennedy, back during the Cuban Missile Crisis ? We the anchors admonishing this young, know nothing kid of a President that putting a blockade around a sovereign nation is an aggressive move ? That we should just sit back and accept a nuclear launching pad for Soviet missiles in Cuba ??

Shows how truly un-American todays media are w/ regards to Trump and his policies.

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Friday, August 11, 2017 10:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trump's ' crazy ' talk has yielded the UN in yet another 15-0 resolution against Lil' Kim. Yes, Russia and China are on board. Also, it's been reported that China will risk a financial hit in backing the UN resolution over siding w/ the fat kid.

How many resolutions has the UN passed? 2371. None made a damn bit difference to Kim.
www.un.org/en/sc/documents/resolutions/

The latest UN resolution on Korea is 2371. I bet Kim is not really intimidated: http://bit.ly/2vtw0lx

How much trade between South Korea and America? $112 billion in 2016.
How much trade between North Korea and the entire World? About nothing.
Trade sanctions make no damn difference to Kim. But Kim could stop trade between S Korea and US.

If Trump goes to war with Kim, Kim will attack S Korea. Trade with S Korea is the US weakness.
www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5800.html

Trump Is 'Locked and Loaded' in a Nuclear Game of Chicken. I think Trump is the Chicken because the US stands to lose $112 billion per year in trade with South Korea if it attacks while Kim stands to lose his life if he gives up on A-bombs.
www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/trump-locked-loaded-
north-korea/536541
/

Trump's choices are either kill Kim or else continue saber rattling and trading with South Korea.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, August 11, 2017 1:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


62% of Americans think N Korea is a very serious threat (compare with ISIS at 64%)
77% think N Korea has a missile that could hit the USA
50% favor America taking military action against N Korea
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/08/08/rel7b.-.north.korea.pdf

Similarly, in 2003
70% of Americans believed that Saddam was involved in 9-11
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/09/06/hussein-lin
k-to-911-lingers-in-many-minds/7cd31079-21d1-42cf-8651-b67e93350fde
/

93% of Americans believed that Saddam had WMD-manufacturing facilities (before the war), and after the war 86% still believed that Saddam has WMD facilties, although no WMD were used during the war and none were found (except leftovers from 1983)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/8623/americans-still-think-iraq-had-weapons
-mass-destruction-before-war.aspx


N Korea has visibly tested missiles, whose range is getting longer and longer. N Korea has also done nuclear tests. The question is whether N Korea can package a nuclear weapon into a warhead small enough to fit onto a missile.

EVEN IF it has, this threat and counter-threat is a non-productive approach. It really is a game of "chicken", and those games don't end well unless somebody backs down, and it doesn't look lie anybody will back down. We really need to find another way.



-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*

And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581

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Friday, August 11, 2017 3:16 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The question is whether N Korea can package a nuclear weapon into a warhead small enough to fit onto a missile.

EVEN IF it has, this threat and counter-threat is a non-productive approach. It really is a game of "chicken", and those games don't end well unless somebody backs down, and it doesn't look like anybody will back down. We really need to find another way.

I predict Trump is the chicken for the rest of his term in office. I'm not adding any caveats or conditions. Trump is hot air and wild threats with no guts. If I'm wrong about Trump I'll say now what I would say then: "Oops. So sorry Samsung, Hyundai and LG have gone out of business in the Trump/Kim War."
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/11/16119606/trump-north-korea-i
mprovise


China has helpfully given Trump cover for his chicken heart: “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE

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Friday, August 11, 2017 4:43 PM

THGRRI


Trump








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Friday, August 11, 2017 6:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
" Our job tonight is to actually scare people to death on this subject "
Fucking REALLY ???



Well that was pretty horrific. Did you see Andrea Mitchell's reaction?? Whoa! She was visibly shaking her heard, totally disgusted.
I think you're mistaken if you think Brian Williams at 11pm on a cable news channel because he was fired from his prime time slot is the poster boy or pillar of our free press. Yes, 'if it bleeds it leads' will always play favorites, but is there anything more American than that? Don't tell me Fux is all about the News.

==============================



This is the M.O. for msnbc though...

Our job is to control what you think - Mika.

Our job is to scare the hell out of your - Brian.

Which fits nicely into the over all mantra of the Leftist Dems...

" It takes a long time... to control the people " John Dingell ( D )

" Govt is the only thing we that all belong to " - DNC video


YOU CAN'T TAKE THE SKY FROM ME !


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Friday, August 11, 2017 8:19 PM

THGRRI


Wow SIG, and you said Hillary was the war monger. What an ass you are. Maybe, Maybe SIG, someday you will be right about something.


Trump threatens Venezuela with 'military option'

U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday threatened military intervention in Venezuela, a surprise escalation in Washington's response to Venezuela's political crisis.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-threatens-venezuela-with-mil
itary-option/ar-AApTMLD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=BHEA000







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Friday, August 11, 2017 8:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
George Carlin once refeered to this as "The bigger dick" foreign policy.

I think this is playing out now with Trump.



I see some envy going on here...


Point is, Trump is just saying what needs being said.




But Trump... he's CRAZY !!!


Sod off.

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Friday, August 11, 2017 9:56 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
AU, you can tell me to sod off all you want. But I do not want to see the world blown up by either of these nuts. Kim or Trump.

And I am still entitled to my opinion or to repeat the opinion of a comedian.



Yes you are Brenda. Just as long as the Trumps, Putins, communist slash socialist, and hard right nuts we have here are kept in check.






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Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
No worries THG. I've been told to sod off by a lot of people over the years. Just ticks me off is all.

While both have run their mouths for years, Trump and AURaptor should have always known the following, but I don't think either ever will:

Although he’s done little to discourage the world from viewing him as a wild-eyed warmonger, Kim Jong Un is well aware that using his nuclear arsenal would trigger an instantaneous U.S. retaliation that would bring a catastrophic end to his regime. At the same time, he witnessed what happened to Saddam Hussein and Moammar Gadhafi after they stopped pursuing weapons of mass destruction. There’s no retirement plan for North Korean dictators, no cushy corporate board appointments, no lucrative circuit of speaking engagements. The survival of his regime is a matter of life and death for Kim, and his nuclear arsenal is his life insurance policy.

So North Korea is unlikely to abandon its nuclear weapons, but Kim is unlikely to use them. Containment and deterrence of North Korea are not appealing options. During the Cold War many condemned those approaches as passive, immoral, and defeatist, but in fact they were none of those then, and would be none of those now.

www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/The-waiting-game-1
1757353.php


Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against an adversary much more formidable than North Korea. The playbook that was written more than a half-century ago can work again today. Instead of behaving like Kim, President Trump needs to start acting like a Cold War leader who's not only willing to confront a nuclear adversary, but also willing to wait and watch its failing government fall from within.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
AU, you can tell me to sod off all you want. But I do not want to see the world blown up by either of these nuts. Kim or Trump.

And I am still entitled to my opinion or to repeat the opinion of a comedian.



Kim has been doing this sort of stuff and building up his arsenal long before Trump even started to run.

Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ? KJU has been building up to this moment, and isn't planning on stopping , even as the UN slaps sanctions on him, even as his biggest ally, China, refuses to take his side, and will admittedly choose to take a financial hit in order to see NK brought to heel...


This isn't about TRUMP !!!


Clinton back in '94 basically made a deal to pay off NK if they stopped producing nuclear weaponry. NK took our $, and still went ahead w/ the process of making nukes. ( Same as Iran, btw... but that's a different topic ) Bush and Obama are also complicit in allowing this to carry on, and then we FINALLY have a President who isn't going to take crap any more.

NK fires off 4 rockets, as they threaten, over Japan and towards Guam, you HONESTLY going to blame Trump ??

That right there is true insanity.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 8:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

This isn't about TRUMP !!!

That right there is true insanity.

Wrong.

1) China's President Xi Jinping said there needs to be a peaceful resolution to the North Korean nuclear issue, and in a telephone call with U.S. President Donald Trump he urged all sides to avoid words or action that raise tensions.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AO011

If Trump does not settle this peacefully, China has threatened him:

2) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE


That leaves Trump with only one choice that does not end with massive death:

3) Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against the Soviet Union and it will work against North Korea.

4) Trump isn't smart but he is a chicken. After squawking, he will choose containment.

4.5) If Trump does not chicken out, we won't be getting any shiny Samsung electronics for Christmas. North Korea will pulverize the Samsung factories.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 9:32 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ?



Yes, I honestly believe that. I don't salivate like Pavlov's dog every time some warmongering president starts beating the war drums.

Bush was full of shit about Iraq. Even YOU must admit that by now. Trump, an even stupider and even less competent idiot, is even more full of shit.

North Korea is NO threat to this country, any more than Iraq was. We killed and maimed millions so some rich guys could get richer. There's nothing more to America's military adventures than that.

War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:

War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.

War is far weirder than that. The logic of nukes would be for America to demand France disarm its H-bombs, scuttle its four missile launching submarines and shutdown its reactors. But America is friends with France. Why confront France? Because America is friends only with countries the President says it is friends with. Remember Freedom fries replacing French fries because France's opposition to the proposed invasion of Iraq? A President goes funny in the head and suddenly America could be threatening "fire and fury" on Paris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Please don't let Trump see the Leftovers episode where a French sub fires all its missiles because he'd go crazy.

This episode starts with a nuclear weapon being detonated. By the French, no less. (Okay, by a rogue Frenchman, but it's still one of the country’s bombs.) The opening sequence with this explosion is a great one, a little bit silly, a little bit scary, and brimming with creativity. You can tell that The Leftovers’ writers have really thought about how one man could launch a nuclear missile, and then come up with a sequence that shows their ideas off with panache.
www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/14/15632530/leftovers-season-3-episode-5-re
cap-matt-matt-world


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:01 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/nuclear-expert-consid
ers-risks-of-conflict-with-north-korea
/

Scientific American asks a Nuclear Expert: If Trump sought your advice on North Korea, what would you say?

Wellerstein: I think Trump in general could benefit greatly just by learning to empathize with other human beings. It appears to be a core character defect of his, and it’s a scary thing given how much of policy is about understanding consequences, and that typically requires empathy. For nuclear matters it is absolutely essential: you need to be able to understand what the other fellow is likely to do, what they are attempting to accomplish, what they will see their “options” as being.

It is clear that the North Koreans see the development of a nuclear deterrent against the United States as an existential issue. They are probably not wrong about that — the US has a reputation for causing a lot of trouble with regimes it judges as being against its interests, but it gives nuclear-armed states wide latitude. As the North Koreans have developed a mostly credible capability to threaten the cities of our allies, and maybe even our own cities, then the time of trying to imagine a non-nuclear North Korea has probably passed for the time being (maybe someday in the long future, when they feel less threatened, we can imagine such a thing).

That doesn’t mean they are likely to attack the USA. They aren’t. They know that to do so would be suicidal. We need to make clear what conditions would result in unacceptable results for them, and they need to make clear the same for us. In both cases, there need to be options that, while not ideal, can be lived with, e.g., the North Koreans can’t think that starting a war with South Korea would be acceptable, and we shouldn’t think that we can force them to change their regime or get rid of their weapons. For deterrence to work, it requires the “alternative” to the use of weapons to be at least somewhat acceptable. This very basic idea seems not to be something Trump understands; his transactional, “deal” way of thinking doesn’t seem to allow for mutually beneficial solutions, or even mutually-good-enough solutions.

North Korea does not seem any more irrational than any other state with nuclear weapons, and we have managed to make do with fairly irrational, nuclear-armed states before (when China got the bomb in the early 1960s, it was in the middle of the Cultural Revolution, and pretty far from a stable, rational state). But if you force them into a corner, if they think that their central government is in imminent danger of “decapitation,” they may do something rash.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ?



Yes, I honestly believe that. I don't salivate like Pavlov's dog every time some warmongering president starts beating the war drums.

Bush was full of shit about Iraq. Even YOU must admit that by now. Trump, an even stupider and even less competent idiot, is even more full of shit.

North Korea is NO threat to this country, any more than Iraq was. We killed and maimed millions so some rich guys could get richer. There's nothing more to America's military adventures than that.

War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.



Then you're flat out wrong, and naively so.

As for Bush and Iraq, I don't admit he was wrong to do something about it, I do agree his methodology was a failure.

We didn't kill and maim millions. You're flat out delusional.


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Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

This isn't about TRUMP !!!

That right there is true insanity.

Wrong.

1) China's President Xi Jinping said there needs to be a peaceful resolution to the North Korean nuclear issue, and in a telephone call with U.S. President Donald Trump he urged all sides to avoid words or action that raise tensions.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AO011

If Trump does not settle this peacefully, China has threatened him:



Sorry, not wrong. Of course everyone is going to aim for peaceful solution. But saying that and actually meaning it aren't always the same thing.

China willing to 'pay a price' for stronger North Korea sanctions - http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/08/asia/china-north-korea-sanctions/index.h
tml


Quote:



2) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE



An opinion piece written about a hypothetical that's about as unlikely to happen as anything. Ever. The US hasn't been, nor is remotely thinking of a 'first strike ' if NK doesn't fire missiles at Guam, Hawaii, or worse, the West coast.

Quote:



That leaves Trump with only one choice that does not end with massive death:




It's not his choice alone to make.

Quote:



3) Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against the Soviet Union and it will work against North Korea.



That's naïve thinking right there.

Quote:



4) Trump isn't smart but he is a chicken. After squawking, he will choose containment.



Trump has already shown he'll use military force, w / regards to Syria and chemical weapons being used on civilians. Or did you forget about that already ?

Quote:



4.5) If Trump does not chicken out, we won't be getting any shiny Samsung electronics for Christmas. North Korea will pulverize the Samsung factories




NK has been threatening to do that for a while now. They've shelled civilian homes, sank S.Korean fishing vessels, and continued to provoke and threaten. The US, S.Korea, Japan... just want to go about their business. It's unreasonable beyond every measure that we just allow Lil Kim to keep firing off missiles, one after another, and do nothing about it.

I'm glad we've got a real leader in the WH , after 8 years of apologizing, bowing and wearing mom-jeans.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 1:19 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I'm glad we've got a real leader in the WH , after 8 years of apologizing, bowing and wearing mom-jeans.

Making empty threats is Trump's basic mode of action:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:32 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Then you're flat out wrong, and naively so.

As for Bush and Iraq, I don't admit he was wrong to do something about it, I do agree his methodology was a failure.

We didn't kill and maim millions. You're flat out delusional.


Your denial of easily-verified facts is proof you're delusional. You live in a fantasy world.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 5:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Your denial of easily-verified facts is proof you're delusional. You live in a fantasy world.

Both sides of the political spectrum suffer from the delusion malady. Trying to argue from a factual basis - or even just pointing out that there are no facts to a claim - is an invitation to get trolled. Yes, you troll people who are trying to discuss facts, RF, as do your neo-liberal cronies. You really should find comradeship with Rappy, you share so much.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 6:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.

lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendly propagand ... media

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/08/europe/russia-decoded/
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-putin-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-media-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaign-emails-show-aid
es-repeated-efforts-to-set-up-russia-meetings/2017/08/14/54d08da6-7dc2-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html





Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


In a forceful speech on Tuesday, South Korean President Moon Jae-in asserted the right to veto any military action against Kim Jong Un’s regime, saying that decision should be made by “ourselves and not by anyone else.”

He vowed to prevent war at any cost — a statement that drew a sharp contrast with President Donald Trump, who has warned of “fire and fury” if North Korea continues to threaten the U.S.

Even worse for Moon, some U.S. officials have signaled that they’d be willing to tolerate collateral damage in Seoul to protect the American homeland from a nuclear attack. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican, told NBC News that Trump told him that “if thousands die, they’re going to die over there.”

Seoul’s 10 million people are within firing range of North Korea’s artillery, and would be likely to suffer the brunt of the first retaliatory blows in a U.S. strike.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-15/moon-vents-korea-frustratio
n-by-asserting-right-to-veto-u-s-war


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, August 16, 2017 8:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendly propagand ... media

Where did North Korea get its missile technology?

A new media report claims North Korea was able to develop its missile system after buying rocket engines on the black market in Ukraine. Kyiv denies the link. In this international mystery, the clues lead to Russia.

www.dw.com/en/where-did-north-korea-get-its-missile-technology/a-40107
204


Elleman has analyzed North Korean medium-range and intercontinental ballistic missiles of the Hwasong 12 and 14 types, whose extended range holds the potential to hit the United States. He concluded that the surprisingly fast development in the last two years has only been possible with the help of foreign suppliers, meaning countries from the former Soviet Union. Even the German missile expert Robert Schmucker from the Technical University of Munich (TUM) agreed with Elleman's analysis, although he avoided any explicit accusations.

Experts believe that the one-chamber engine used in the latest Hwasong missiles is reminiscent of the Soviet RD-250 rocket engine, which had two chambers and was developed in the 1960s.

It is difficult to prove whether the RD-250 was also manufactured by Yuzhmash. Vitaly Zushtchevski said that they received these engines from Russia, where they were "produced in low quantities." Elleman suggested that they were also made in Ukraine. In his IISS study, he wrote that "hundreds, if not more" RD-250 engines have remained in Russia, as well as in Ukraine, adding it is also possible that Moscow is Pyongyang's supplier.

Observers in Kyiv believe that the New York Times article may be part of a targeted campaign by Russia. In an analysis published on Tuesday, the Center for Army, Conversion and Disarmament Studies (CACDS) in Kyiv wrote that the US publication shows "signs of an information attack on Ukraine." Among other things, the aim of the article is apparently to divert attention from Russia's "own missile technology shipments to North Korea" and to discredit Ukraine, especially in the eyes of the US.

"Russia shares a border with North Korea, so one can deliver anything, even entire engines," said Mykhailo Samus, the CACDS deputy director for international affairs. Ukraine, on the other hand, would have logistical problems, he said.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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