REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 08:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1591
PAGE 3 of 3

Friday, August 11, 2017 9:56 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
AU, you can tell me to sod off all you want. But I do not want to see the world blown up by either of these nuts. Kim or Trump.

And I am still entitled to my opinion or to repeat the opinion of a comedian.



Yes you are Brenda. Just as long as the Trumps, Putins, communist slash socialist, and hard right nuts we have here are kept in check.






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Friday, August 11, 2017 11:29 PM

BRENDA


No worries THG. I've been told to sod off by a lot of people over the years. Just ticks me off is all.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
No worries THG. I've been told to sod off by a lot of people over the years. Just ticks me off is all.

While both have run their mouths for years, Trump and AURaptor should have always known the following, but I don't think either ever will:

Although he’s done little to discourage the world from viewing him as a wild-eyed warmonger, Kim Jong Un is well aware that using his nuclear arsenal would trigger an instantaneous U.S. retaliation that would bring a catastrophic end to his regime. At the same time, he witnessed what happened to Saddam Hussein and Moammar Gadhafi after they stopped pursuing weapons of mass destruction. There’s no retirement plan for North Korean dictators, no cushy corporate board appointments, no lucrative circuit of speaking engagements. The survival of his regime is a matter of life and death for Kim, and his nuclear arsenal is his life insurance policy.

So North Korea is unlikely to abandon its nuclear weapons, but Kim is unlikely to use them. Containment and deterrence of North Korea are not appealing options. During the Cold War many condemned those approaches as passive, immoral, and defeatist, but in fact they were none of those then, and would be none of those now.

www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/The-waiting-game-1
1757353.php


Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against an adversary much more formidable than North Korea. The playbook that was written more than a half-century ago can work again today. Instead of behaving like Kim, President Trump needs to start acting like a Cold War leader who's not only willing to confront a nuclear adversary, but also willing to wait and watch its failing government fall from within.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
AU, you can tell me to sod off all you want. But I do not want to see the world blown up by either of these nuts. Kim or Trump.

And I am still entitled to my opinion or to repeat the opinion of a comedian.



Kim has been doing this sort of stuff and building up his arsenal long before Trump even started to run.

Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ? KJU has been building up to this moment, and isn't planning on stopping , even as the UN slaps sanctions on him, even as his biggest ally, China, refuses to take his side, and will admittedly choose to take a financial hit in order to see NK brought to heel...


This isn't about TRUMP !!!


Clinton back in '94 basically made a deal to pay off NK if they stopped producing nuclear weaponry. NK took our $, and still went ahead w/ the process of making nukes. ( Same as Iran, btw... but that's a different topic ) Bush and Obama are also complicit in allowing this to carry on, and then we FINALLY have a President who isn't going to take crap any more.

NK fires off 4 rockets, as they threaten, over Japan and towards Guam, you HONESTLY going to blame Trump ??

That right there is true insanity.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 8:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

This isn't about TRUMP !!!

That right there is true insanity.

Wrong.

1) China's President Xi Jinping said there needs to be a peaceful resolution to the North Korean nuclear issue, and in a telephone call with U.S. President Donald Trump he urged all sides to avoid words or action that raise tensions.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AO011

If Trump does not settle this peacefully, China has threatened him:

2) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE


That leaves Trump with only one choice that does not end with massive death:

3) Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against the Soviet Union and it will work against North Korea.

4) Trump isn't smart but he is a chicken. After squawking, he will choose containment.

4.5) If Trump does not chicken out, we won't be getting any shiny Samsung electronics for Christmas. North Korea will pulverize the Samsung factories.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 9:32 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ?



Yes, I honestly believe that. I don't salivate like Pavlov's dog every time some warmongering president starts beating the war drums.

Bush was full of shit about Iraq. Even YOU must admit that by now. Trump, an even stupider and even less competent idiot, is even more full of shit.

North Korea is NO threat to this country, any more than Iraq was. We killed and maimed millions so some rich guys could get richer. There's nothing more to America's military adventures than that.

War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.

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Saturday, August 12, 2017 10:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:

War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.

War is far weirder than that. The logic of nukes would be for America to demand France disarm its H-bombs, scuttle its four missile launching submarines and shutdown its reactors. But America is friends with France. Why confront France? Because America is friends only with countries the President says it is friends with. Remember Freedom fries replacing French fries because France's opposition to the proposed invasion of Iraq? A President goes funny in the head and suddenly America could be threatening "fire and fury" on Paris.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Please don't let Trump see the Leftovers episode where a French sub fires all its missiles because he'd go crazy.

This episode starts with a nuclear weapon being detonated. By the French, no less. (Okay, by a rogue Frenchman, but it's still one of the country’s bombs.) The opening sequence with this explosion is a great one, a little bit silly, a little bit scary, and brimming with creativity. You can tell that The Leftovers’ writers have really thought about how one man could launch a nuclear missile, and then come up with a sequence that shows their ideas off with panache.
www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/14/15632530/leftovers-season-3-episode-5-re
cap-matt-matt-world


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:01 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/nuclear-expert-consid
ers-risks-of-conflict-with-north-korea
/

Scientific American asks a Nuclear Expert: If Trump sought your advice on North Korea, what would you say?

Wellerstein: I think Trump in general could benefit greatly just by learning to empathize with other human beings. It appears to be a core character defect of his, and it’s a scary thing given how much of policy is about understanding consequences, and that typically requires empathy. For nuclear matters it is absolutely essential: you need to be able to understand what the other fellow is likely to do, what they are attempting to accomplish, what they will see their “options” as being.

It is clear that the North Koreans see the development of a nuclear deterrent against the United States as an existential issue. They are probably not wrong about that — the US has a reputation for causing a lot of trouble with regimes it judges as being against its interests, but it gives nuclear-armed states wide latitude. As the North Koreans have developed a mostly credible capability to threaten the cities of our allies, and maybe even our own cities, then the time of trying to imagine a non-nuclear North Korea has probably passed for the time being (maybe someday in the long future, when they feel less threatened, we can imagine such a thing).

That doesn’t mean they are likely to attack the USA. They aren’t. They know that to do so would be suicidal. We need to make clear what conditions would result in unacceptable results for them, and they need to make clear the same for us. In both cases, there need to be options that, while not ideal, can be lived with, e.g., the North Koreans can’t think that starting a war with South Korea would be acceptable, and we shouldn’t think that we can force them to change their regime or get rid of their weapons. For deterrence to work, it requires the “alternative” to the use of weapons to be at least somewhat acceptable. This very basic idea seems not to be something Trump understands; his transactional, “deal” way of thinking doesn’t seem to allow for mutually beneficial solutions, or even mutually-good-enough solutions.

North Korea does not seem any more irrational than any other state with nuclear weapons, and we have managed to make do with fairly irrational, nuclear-armed states before (when China got the bomb in the early 1960s, it was in the middle of the Cultural Revolution, and pretty far from a stable, rational state). But if you force them into a corner, if they think that their central government is in imminent danger of “decapitation,” they may do something rash.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:



Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ?



Yes, I honestly believe that. I don't salivate like Pavlov's dog every time some warmongering president starts beating the war drums.

Bush was full of shit about Iraq. Even YOU must admit that by now. Trump, an even stupider and even less competent idiot, is even more full of shit.

North Korea is NO threat to this country, any more than Iraq was. We killed and maimed millions so some rich guys could get richer. There's nothing more to America's military adventures than that.

War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.



Then you're flat out wrong, and naively so.

As for Bush and Iraq, I don't admit he was wrong to do something about it, I do agree his methodology was a failure.

We didn't kill and maim millions. You're flat out delusional.


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Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

This isn't about TRUMP !!!

That right there is true insanity.

Wrong.

1) China's President Xi Jinping said there needs to be a peaceful resolution to the North Korean nuclear issue, and in a telephone call with U.S. President Donald Trump he urged all sides to avoid words or action that raise tensions.

www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AO011

If Trump does not settle this peacefully, China has threatened him:



Sorry, not wrong. Of course everyone is going to aim for peaceful solution. But saying that and actually meaning it aren't always the same thing.

China willing to 'pay a price' for stronger North Korea sanctions - http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/08/asia/china-north-korea-sanctions/index.h
tml


Quote:



2) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE



An opinion piece written about a hypothetical that's about as unlikely to happen as anything. Ever. The US hasn't been, nor is remotely thinking of a 'first strike ' if NK doesn't fire missiles at Guam, Hawaii, or worse, the West coast.

Quote:



That leaves Trump with only one choice that does not end with massive death:




It's not his choice alone to make.

Quote:



3) Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against the Soviet Union and it will work against North Korea.



That's naïve thinking right there.

Quote:



4) Trump isn't smart but he is a chicken. After squawking, he will choose containment.



Trump has already shown he'll use military force, w / regards to Syria and chemical weapons being used on civilians. Or did you forget about that already ?

Quote:



4.5) If Trump does not chicken out, we won't be getting any shiny Samsung electronics for Christmas. North Korea will pulverize the Samsung factories




NK has been threatening to do that for a while now. They've shelled civilian homes, sank S.Korean fishing vessels, and continued to provoke and threaten. The US, S.Korea, Japan... just want to go about their business. It's unreasonable beyond every measure that we just allow Lil Kim to keep firing off missiles, one after another, and do nothing about it.

I'm glad we've got a real leader in the WH , after 8 years of apologizing, bowing and wearing mom-jeans.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 1:19 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I'm glad we've got a real leader in the WH , after 8 years of apologizing, bowing and wearing mom-jeans.

Making empty threats is Trump's basic mode of action:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:32 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Then you're flat out wrong, and naively so.

As for Bush and Iraq, I don't admit he was wrong to do something about it, I do agree his methodology was a failure.

We didn't kill and maim millions. You're flat out delusional.


Your denial of easily-verified facts is proof you're delusional. You live in a fantasy world.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 5:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Your denial of easily-verified facts is proof you're delusional. You live in a fantasy world.

Both sides of the political spectrum suffer from the delusion malady. Trying to argue from a factual basis - or even just pointing out that there are no facts to a claim - is an invitation to get trolled. Yes, you troll people who are trying to discuss facts, RF, as do your neo-liberal cronies. You really should find comradeship with Rappy, you share so much.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, August 14, 2017 6:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.

lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendly propagand ... media

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/08/europe/russia-decoded/
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-putin-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-media-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaign-emails-show-aid
es-repeated-efforts-to-set-up-russia-meetings/2017/08/14/54d08da6-7dc2-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html





Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:06 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.

lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendly propagand ... media

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/08/europe/russia-decoded/
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-putin-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-media-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaign-emails-show-aid
es-repeated-efforts-to-set-up-russia-meetings/2017/08/14/54d08da6-7dc2-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html




Thanks for bringing this back into focus, Kiks. Very important!

==============================

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Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


In a forceful speech on Tuesday, South Korean President Moon Jae-in asserted the right to veto any military action against Kim Jong Un’s regime, saying that decision should be made by “ourselves and not by anyone else.”

He vowed to prevent war at any cost — a statement that drew a sharp contrast with President Donald Trump, who has warned of “fire and fury” if North Korea continues to threaten the U.S.

Even worse for Moon, some U.S. officials have signaled that they’d be willing to tolerate collateral damage in Seoul to protect the American homeland from a nuclear attack. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican, told NBC News that Trump told him that “if thousands die, they’re going to die over there.”

Seoul’s 10 million people are within firing range of North Korea’s artillery, and would be likely to suffer the brunt of the first retaliatory blows in a U.S. strike.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-15/moon-vents-korea-frustratio
n-by-asserting-right-to-veto-u-s-war


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, August 16, 2017 8:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendly propagand ... media

Where did North Korea get its missile technology?

A new media report claims North Korea was able to develop its missile system after buying rocket engines on the black market in Ukraine. Kyiv denies the link. In this international mystery, the clues lead to Russia.

www.dw.com/en/where-did-north-korea-get-its-missile-technology/a-40107
204


Elleman has analyzed North Korean medium-range and intercontinental ballistic missiles of the Hwasong 12 and 14 types, whose extended range holds the potential to hit the United States. He concluded that the surprisingly fast development in the last two years has only been possible with the help of foreign suppliers, meaning countries from the former Soviet Union. Even the German missile expert Robert Schmucker from the Technical University of Munich (TUM) agreed with Elleman's analysis, although he avoided any explicit accusations.

Experts believe that the one-chamber engine used in the latest Hwasong missiles is reminiscent of the Soviet RD-250 rocket engine, which had two chambers and was developed in the 1960s.

It is difficult to prove whether the RD-250 was also manufactured by Yuzhmash. Vitaly Zushtchevski said that they received these engines from Russia, where they were "produced in low quantities." Elleman suggested that they were also made in Ukraine. In his IISS study, he wrote that "hundreds, if not more" RD-250 engines have remained in Russia, as well as in Ukraine, adding it is also possible that Moscow is Pyongyang's supplier.

Observers in Kyiv believe that the New York Times article may be part of a targeted campaign by Russia. In an analysis published on Tuesday, the Center for Army, Conversion and Disarmament Studies (CACDS) in Kyiv wrote that the US publication shows "signs of an information attack on Ukraine." Among other things, the aim of the article is apparently to divert attention from Russia's "own missile technology shipments to North Korea" and to discredit Ukraine, especially in the eyes of the US.

"Russia shares a border with North Korea, so one can deliver anything, even entire engines," said Mykhailo Samus, the CACDS deputy director for international affairs. Ukraine, on the other hand, would have logistical problems, he said.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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