REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

What about North Korea?

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Saturday, November 4, 2017 19:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1039
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, September 4, 2017 5:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's kind of a deal.

Does no one have an opinion?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 5:48 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


The very definition of the "no-win scenario."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...with Trump at the wheel it's just assumed we're going to hell anyway....so that makes that easier...

Unreasonable people cannot be reasoned with. On either side of the planet there are giant man-babies with big bombs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 6:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I've wondered if the response might not be to make North Korea pay, but to make China (its biggest supporter) pay. To that end, putting sanctions on anyone who does business with NK as Trump says he will do, makes sense.

Personally - and no, I'm not recommending it, I'm just pissed-off enough to think it - I would tell China that if NK does anything untoward, the US will take out a Chinese city of our choosing. I think that the biggest problem is the Chinese lack motivation.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 6:16 PM

6STRINGJOKER


My opinion about North Korea is the same as it ever was. There's nothing there. It's just another bogey man that will pop up anytime there is a lull in action for stories to attack Trump everyday.

Kim doesn't suffer from some diseased ideology like Islam. He's just trying to wave is big dick around for everybody to see is all. There is Zero ROI for him to actually try anything. He might as well be shooting off fireworks.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 6:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Generally, I agree. I think - I HOPE - that Kim has looked down the road all the way to the end, and has seen what's there.

But think about it. This is a country where everyone has been deeply propagandized to believe the US is an aggressor enemy. I don't know about NK's internal state, or Kim's political stability, but the escalating displays make me think he's threatened in some way. And if Kim is playing a political game, at some point that game may play him. He may end up in a position where he can't be seen to be moderating his stance. He may HAVE to continue forward.

Then what?

Or, he might be genuinely nuts.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 6:40 PM

6STRINGJOKER


That's all true. We could also be hit by an asteroid by this time next year and we're all boned.

I guess my point is there is absolutely nothing at all in the world that I could ever do about this. I'm not going to waste a single moment thinking about it.

If there are actual things to worry about, there are people about 100 levels above my paygrade that know a lot more about it than I do. I don't trust those people, but I trust that they don't have a deathwish either, so everything should be a-okay.

I'm not even convinced that he's not just some weird big cuddly teddy bear and all of this is made up. North Korea might as well be on Mars. Anybody here that doesn't have top level security clearance in our government that tells you they know what is going on is full of shit.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 8:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've wondered if the response might not be to make North Korea pay, but to make China (its biggest supporter) pay. To that end, putting sanctions on anyone who does business with NK as Trump says he will do, makes sense.

Personally - and no, I'm not recommending it, I'm just pissed-off enough to think it - I would tell China that if NK does anything untoward, the US will take out a Chinese city of our choosing. I think that the biggest problem is the Chinese lack motivation.

How would this deter China? That would merely help their population control. Unless their palace or capital is taken out - and Head of State targets are frowned upon.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 9:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


In most asian cultures, saving face is a major component.
DPRK does not reside in the real world.
Those 2 combined result in dramatic disaster.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 4, 2017 9:20 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
In most asian cultures, saving face is a major component.
DPRK does not reside in the real world.
Those 2 combined result in dramatic disaster.



Well... yanno.... whatever.

Maybe he is crazy. Maybe he'll back himself in a corner and and fire a nuke anywhere there is people and doom himself and whatever the population of Korea is?

Maybe I have an aneurysm 5 minutes after writing this post and nobody finds my body for weeks?


Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.......


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 11:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Well... yanno.... whatever.

Maybe he is crazy. Maybe he'll back himself in a corner and and fire a nuke anywhere there is people and doom himself and whatever the population of Korea is?

Maybe I have an aneurysm 5 minutes after writing this post and nobody finds my body for weeks?


Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.......

Vladimir Putin’s analysis of North Korea is very different from Trump’s or 6stringJoker's "analysis", but similar to what you hear from American experts.

When Putin talked about the US-North Korea nuclear standoff in a press conference on Thursday night, his assessment of the situation matched far more closely with what you hear from US experts on North Korea than anything that the Trump administration has said.

Putin’s core point is that the central strategy of US policy under Trump, Obama, and Bush — attempting to pressure North Korea into giving up its nuclear program — has now conclusively failed. North Korea now believes that its nuclear arsenal is its best deterrent against an American invasion, and hence will not give it up no matter how much the United States tries to push them.

“They see nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction as the only way for them to protect themselves,” the Russian president said during the Thursday presser, held at an economic forum in Vladivostok, Russia.

That isn’t the Trump administration’s view. Just this week, UN Ambassador Nikki Haley called for “the strongest sanctions” to pressure North Korea into giving up nukes “before it's too late.” Yet the consensus position among America’s North Korea experts is that it is, in fact, too late: that nothing the US can do to Kim Jong Un could offset the deterrent value of his nuclear weapons.

“There is very little chance that we are ever going to talk this guy out of his weapons, and none of us who have been watching the situation closely for years really thought we were going to,” as Mira Rapp-Hooper, a scholar at Yale Law School who studies North Korea, put when I spoke to her this week.

Putin also noted that harsh American rhetoric — like Trump’s promise to respond to inflict “fire and fury like the world has never seen” on the North — serves only to escalate the situation. “It’s counterproductive to inflate this military hysteria. This leads nowhere,” he said.

This, once again, dovetails with what American experts told me in interviews. They believe that threats tend to inflame the North’s fears of invasion, causing them to respond with provocations and further development of their nuclear program.

“They’re responding to our threats, it’s tit-for-tat,” Dave Kang, the director of the Korean Studies Institute at the University of Southern California, says. “Our policies are designed precisely to provoke the outcome we’re trying to avoid.”

Finally, Putin argued that the best way to handle the nuclear crisis going forward is through negotiations — for the US and North Korea to develop better lines of communication in order to avoid a crisis escalating into a war that no one wants.

“All the competing sides have enough common sense and understanding of their responsibility. We can solve this problem through diplomatic means,” the Russian president said.

If you guessed that this is what most North Korea experts believe, then congratulations, you’ve got the pattern.

The United States has backed itself into a pretty obvious corner. The aim of denuclearizing North Korea is out of reach, which is tough to admit when America has spent decades warning of the consequences of Pyongyang’s program. Conceding defeat is very hard for anyone, and especially hard for people making policy for the world’s most powerful country.

www.vox.com/world/2017/9/8/16276122/north-korea-putin-trump-comments

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 2:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

Well... yanno.... whatever.

Maybe he is crazy. Maybe he'll back himself in a corner and and fire a nuke anywhere there is people and doom himself and whatever the population of Korea is?

Maybe I have an aneurysm 5 minutes after writing this post and nobody finds my body for weeks?


Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.......

Vladimir Putin’s analysis of North Korea is very different from Trump’s or 6stringJoker's "analysis", but similar to what you hear from American experts.

When Putin talked about the US-North Korea nuclear standoff in a press conference on Thursday night, his assessment of the situation matched far more closely with what you hear from US experts on North Korea than anything that the Trump administration has said.

Putin’s core point is that the central strategy of US policy under Trump, Obama, and Bush — attempting to pressure North Korea into giving up its nuclear program — has now conclusively failed. North Korea now believes that its nuclear arsenal is its best deterrent against an American invasion, and hence will not give it up no matter how much the United States tries to push them.

“They see nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction as the only way for them to protect themselves,” the Russian president said during the Thursday presser, held at an economic forum in Vladivostok, Russia.

That isn’t the Trump administration’s view. Just this week, UN Ambassador Nikki Haley called for “the strongest sanctions” to pressure North Korea into giving up nukes “before it's too late.” Yet the consensus position among America’s North Korea experts is that it is, in fact, too late: that nothing the US can do to Kim Jong Un could offset the deterrent value of his nuclear weapons.

“There is very little chance that we are ever going to talk this guy out of his weapons, and none of us who have been watching the situation closely for years really thought we were going to,” as Mira Rapp-Hooper, a scholar at Yale Law School who studies North Korea, put when I spoke to her this week.

Putin also noted that harsh American rhetoric — like Trump’s promise to respond to inflict “fire and fury like the world has never seen” on the North — serves only to escalate the situation. “It’s counterproductive to inflate this military hysteria. This leads nowhere,” he said.

This, once again, dovetails with what American experts told me in interviews. They believe that threats tend to inflame the North’s fears of invasion, causing them to respond with provocations and further development of their nuclear program.

“They’re responding to our threats, it’s tit-for-tat,” Dave Kang, the director of the Korean Studies Institute at the University of Southern California, says. “Our policies are designed precisely to provoke the outcome we’re trying to avoid.”

Finally, Putin argued that the best way to handle the nuclear crisis going forward is through negotiations — for the US and North Korea to develop better lines of communication in order to avoid a crisis escalating into a war that no one wants.

“All the competing sides have enough common sense and understanding of their responsibility. We can solve this problem through diplomatic means,” the Russian president said.

If you guessed that this is what most North Korea experts believe, then congratulations, you’ve got the pattern.

The United States has backed itself into a pretty obvious corner. The aim of denuclearizing North Korea is out of reach, which is tough to admit when America has spent decades warning of the consequences of Pyongyang’s program. Conceding defeat is very hard for anyone, and especially hard for people making policy for the world’s most powerful country.

www.vox.com/world/2017/9/8/16276122/north-korea-putin-trump-comments


Any word on when was the tipping point, the point of no return, when we should have stopped NK from pursuing their nuclear program?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 3:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Any word on when was the tipping point, the point of no return, when we should have stopped NK from pursuing their nuclear program?

The tipping point was back when China, India and Pakistan got their first A-bombs, but the U.S.A. didn't do a damn thing. N Korea saw how the game was played: the U.S.A. has not the courage to do more than talk you to death. Or there was the example of Israel and its bomb: again, the U.S.A. did nothing. I see a trend!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 4:01 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Vladimir Putin’s analysis of North Korea is very different from Trump’s or 6stringJoker's "analysis", but similar to what you hear from American experts.



What's my analysis other than "don't give a shit"?

Whether there is or isn't a problem there isn't anybody in this country less equipped to do anything about it and over 300 million Americans who aren't any better equipped to do anything about it than I am.

Have fun worrying about it. I won't be.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 4:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Vladimir Putin’s analysis of North Korea is very different from Trump’s or 6stringJoker's "analysis", but similar to what you hear from American experts.



What's my analysis other than "don't give a shit"?

Whether there is or isn't a problem there isn't anybody in this country less equipped to do anything about it and over 300 million Americans who aren't any better equipped to do anything about it than I am.

Have fun worrying about it. I won't be.

You just washed your hands of all responsibilities for everything, not just N Korea or voting for Trump, haven't you? Must be nice being the human equivalent of zero and yet you're alive, conscious and a sort of capable adult. Have you achieved Buddhist enlightenment and purified yourself of all attachments to Earth?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 4:54 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Vladimir Putin’s analysis of North Korea is very different from Trump’s or 6stringJoker's "analysis", but similar to what you hear from American experts.



What's my analysis other than "don't give a shit"?

Whether there is or isn't a problem there isn't anybody in this country less equipped to do anything about it and over 300 million Americans who aren't any better equipped to do anything about it than I am.

Have fun worrying about it. I won't be.

You just washed your hands of all responsibilities for everything, not just N Korea or voting for Trump, haven't you? Must be nice being the human equivalent of zero and yet you're alive, conscious and a sort of capable adult. Have you achieved Buddhist enlightenment and purified yourself of all attachments to Earth?



Something like that.

I voted for Trump in Indiana. I take responsibility for my vote and I don't hide that I did, but the truth is he won by so many in my state that I could have voted for Daffy Duck and we would have the exact same result. I'll never regret that I didn't' vote for Hillary.

I'm more than capable as an adult. So what that I haven't worked in a few years? I still have a 822 credit score, zero debt, a house and car that are paid for and I'm not on any benefits except for the insurance which is forced on me. I pay my taxes. I don't hurt other people.

I'm good. What have you and your white guilt accomplished today, trust fund baby?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

China Warns Trump: "We Will Back North Korea If The US Strikes First"

Meanwhile, South Korean nuclear experts, checking for contamination, said on Friday they had found minute traces of radioactive xenon gas but that it was too early to link it to Sunday’s explosion. The Nuclear Safety and Security Commission (NSSC) said it had been conducting tests on land, air and water samples since shortly after the North Korean nuclear test on Sunday. There was no chance the xenon “will have an impact on South Korea’s territory or population”, the agency said.

What is more concerning, however, is a Friday report on NBC, according to which Trump is readying a package of diplomatic and military moves against North Korea, including cyberattacks and increased surveillance and intelligence operations, after the nation's sixth and largest nuclear test.

Trump's top national security advisers walked him through a range of options over lunch in the White House on Sunday, just hours after North Korea's latest test, officials said.

According to NBC, Trump is also seriously considering adopting diplomatically risky sanctions on Chinese banks doing business with Pyongyang and upgrading missile defense systems in the region, administration officials said. In addition, the administration is not ruling out moving tactical nuclear weapons to South Korea should Seoul request them, a White House official said, though many consider such a move a nonstarter. It would break with nearly three decades of U.S. policy of denuclearizing the Korean Peninsula.

U.S. officials have also made the case to China that if Beijing doesn't take stronger steps against North Korea, such as cutting off oil exports, South Korea and Japan are likely to pursue their own nuclear weapons programs and the U.S. won't stop them, the official said. "It's more a message for China than North Korea," the official said.

The U.S. has adopted sanctions aimed at Chinese entities that conduct business with North Korea, but has so far held back on broadly targeting China's banking system. China has told U.S. officials it would protest such a move diplomatically and retaliate, according to the senior administration official.

So what happened on Sunday? According to NBC, Trump's national security advisers presented him with U.S. military options, including pre-emptive strikes, and nuclear capabilities should America be called on to abide by its treaty obligations in the region, White House and defense officials said.

The president's advisers have made the case, however, that military strikes on North Korea could have serious repercussions, senior defense officials said, and the most glaring among these is that China has told administration officials that if the U.S. strikes North Korea first, Beijing would back Pyongyang, a senior military official told NBC.

This is not the first time China has warned the US not to escalate: on August 11, Beijing, through the state-owned media, cautioned the US president on Friday that it would intervene (militarily) on North Korea’s behalf if the US and South Korea launch a preemptive strike to “overthrow the North Korean regime,” according to a statement in the influential state-run newspaper Global Times.

"If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so," it said.

At the same time, the Chinese regime made it clear that its preferred outcome would be a continuation of the status quo, warning Kim Jong Un, or perhaps Trump, that it would "remain neutral if North Korea were to strike first."

As we said almost one month ago:

"not surprisingly, analysts have compared the standoff between the two nuclear powers (the North is a recent, if untested, member of this club) to a modern day Cuban Missile crisis. "This situation is beginning to develop into this generation's Cuban Missile crisis moment," ING's chief Asia economist Robert Carnell said in a research note. "While the U.S. president insists on ramping up the war of words, there is a decreasing chance of any diplomatic solution."

MORE AT http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-09/china-warns-trump-we-will-bac
k-north-korea-if-us-strikes-first


Both China and Russia tend to respond in a tit-for-tat fashion. In other words, diplomatic action will be me with diplomatic reaction, economic action (eg sanctions) met with economic reaction.

Unless Trump and his military are so egregiously stupid as to push the button first, this war of words will remain on a non-military level.

N Korea can do a lot of damage without having nukes, adding a few nuclear warheads doesn't add that much to the damage they can do. Heck, just look at how Japan salted its own nation with radionuclides a la Fukushima!


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Any word on when was the tipping point, the point of no return, when we should have stopped NK from pursuing their nuclear program?

The tipping point was back when China, India and Pakistan got their first A-bombs, but the U.S.A. didn't do a damn thing. N Korea saw how the game was played: the U.S.A. has not the courage to do more than talk you to death. Or there was the example of Israel and its bomb: again, the U.S.A. did nothing. I see a trend!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

It was Slick Willie that gave it to Pakistan, right?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 24, 2017 3:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's kind of a deal.

Does no one have an opinion?

Well, they are reportedly targetting Guam, due to presence of U.S. Marines. But not to worry, because esteemed African-American genius Representative for Georgia Hank Johnson has already revealed that Guam will capsize due to the weight of the Marine presence. Yes, Sally, he is a Democrap.

https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/gage-cohen/n-korea-targets-guams-us-milit
ary-presence-which-congressman-warned-could-cause


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Johnson

And the same Racist genius has revealed that JEWS are Termites (not the Galaxy Quest kind) who routinely STEAL land and property from everybody else. Sound like a Nazi to you? Yep, already pointed out he is a Democrap, so Nazi is a given.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/25/congressman-who-once-feared
-guam-could-capsize-compares-jewish-settlers-to-termites.html


RapKnight: is this clown your Rep to Congress?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:24 AM

OONJERAH


As I understand it so far:

North Korea began to test nuclear weapons. Continues to do so.
The neighbors, in general don't like it: S. Korea, Japan, Guam.
China's an NK ally, so maybe OK with the testing.

The USA objects. Kim Jong Un is offended. Our war planes are flying
around over there, close to NK but not invading. Kim, unless he is
an idiot, knows we can wipe him out. But he must save face, so he
demands we back off & he threatens war.

Simple answer. Put our planes back in their hangars & use diplomacy
to work things out. Trump can change direction easily; change his
mind & his opinion on the spur of the moment. He's not constrained
by consistency or logic. Using the Art of the Deal, he can say what
people want to hear and then go on to the next item that catches his
attention. He's unpredictable and very flexible that way.

Let Trump spend a little time & attention saving Puerto Rico while
the N Korea problem blows over. Cooler heads may prevail.



I've got a pal in Puerto Rico. Haven't heard from him since the 19th. :(

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
As I understand it so far:

North Korea began to test nuclear weapons. Continues to do so.
The neighbors, in general don't like it: S. Korea, Japan, Guam.
China's an NK ally, so maybe OK with the testing.

The USA objects. Kim Jong Un is offended. Our war planes are flying
around over there, close to NK but not invading. Kim, unless he is
an idiot, knows we can wipe him out. But he must save face, so he
demands we back off & he threatens war.

Simple answer. Put our planes back in their hangars & use diplomacy
to work things out. Trump can change direction easily; change his
mind & his opinion on the spur of the moment. He's not constrained
by consistency or logic. Using the Art of the Deal, he can say what
people want to hear and then go on to the next item that catches his
attention. He's unpredictable and very flexible that way.

Let Trump spend a little time & attention saving Puerto Rico while
the N Korea problem blows over. Cooler heads may prevail.



I've got a pal in Puerto Rico. Haven't heard from him since the 19th. :(

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Saddam Hussein gave up on atom bombs and America showed its sincere appreciation for his cooperation by hanging him. With no Iraqi A-bombs, America could do as it pleased to Saddam. Kim will not back down from making A-bombs because of America's history with Iraq. There will not be a diplomatic solution where Kim gives Trump what he demands because Trump is asking Kim to commit suicide for the entertainment of Republican voters. Trump would have as much success asking India and Pakistan to give up their A-bombs as he will with N Korea.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/arsenal.html
At the end of the Gulf War, Saddam Hussein and his elite military units were still in power and in possession of huge stockpiles of deadly weapons. In April 1991, the U.N. Security Council created UNSCOM, a special commission to find and dismantle this arsenal. The U.N. imposed economic sanctions on Iraq that would be enforced until the country eliminated all nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons capability.

Two agencies were charged with the task. UNSCOM would uncover and destroy Iraq's biological- and chemical-weapons and ballistic-missile programs; the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) was charged with uncovering and dismantling Iraq's clandestine nuclear program.

From 1991 to 1998 UNSCOM and IAEA carried out numerous inspections in Iraq, but with varying degrees of success.

For the first few years, Iraqi officials failed to disclose much of their special weapons programs to the inspectors. In 1995, Saddam Hussein's son-in-law Kamel Hussein defected. He had been in charge of the bioweapons program and revealed to UNSCOM that there was a vast arsenal of weapons they had failed to uncover, including biological weapons, and described how the Iraqis were hiding them. This was a breakthrough for the inspection teams, and they continued their work until 1998, when Iraq blocked further access and expelled UNSCOM.

More at www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/arsenal.html


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:06 PM

OONJERAH


Opinion - Editorial
‘Adult day care’ isn’t enough. We need a law to keep Trump’s
hands off nuclear button

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article178291651.html

"When Rep. Ted Lieu of California introduced his bill during the
first week of the Trump presidency, it seemed mostly symbolic – a
measure to require the president to seek congressional permission
for a nuclear first strike.

"Now, the issue is becoming more real and more urgent by the day ..."


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 12, 2017 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If Congress FINALLY does its duty and insists on its exclusive authority to wage war, as the Founding Fathers planned, that would be a good thing.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 12, 2017 9:52 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If Congress FINALLY does its duty and insists on its exclusive authority to wage war, as the Founding Fathers planned, that would be a good thing.

The last time Congress declared war was June 4, 1942. With Rumania. What? That is what the U.S. Senate website says and there are pdfs of all the documents!
www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/h_multi_sections_and_teasers/WarDecl
arationsbyCongress.htm


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 12, 2017 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

If Congress FINALLY does its duty and insists on its exclusive authority to wage war, as the Founding Fathers planned, that would be a good thing. - SIGNY

The last time Congress declared war was June 4, 1942. With Rumania. What? That is what the U.S. Senate website says and there are pdfs of all the documents!
www.senate.gov/pagelayout/history/h_multi_sections_and_teasers/WarDecl
arationsbyCongress.htm



Good grief. I knew that Congress had abdicated its responsibility, but I didn't realize it was THAT bad!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 30, 2017 4:51 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Good grief. I knew that Congress had abdicated its responsibility, but I didn't realize it was THAT bad!



    Maybe it's time Congress can do its job?
The PotUS is NOT supposed to be able to just nuke other nations on impulse.

How Congress can stop Trump from starting World War III


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-congress-can-stop-trump-fr
om-starting-world-war-iii/2017/10/29/658dc684-bb5e-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.a36887295e55


Recently, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) warned that he fears President Trump
could lead us into World War III. On Monday, as chairman of the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee, Corker can take an important step to prevent
that.

At a hearing, he’ll have before him Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to discuss the administration’s legal
authority to conduct the global war on terror. ...


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 30, 2017 6:55 AM

OONJERAH


Does Trump have the power to go to war?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41754307

"Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Defence Secretary Jim Mattis
are speaking on Monday about the president's authority to wage war
- the first time this has been debated publicly."

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41754307

"President Barack Obama maintained that the laws gave him the authority that he needed for the campaign against the Islamic State (IS) group, an organisation that didn't exist when the laws were written.

Mr Trump has continued to carry out an aggressive campaign against the militants, whether in Niger or other countries.

Obama and Trump, says Ohlin, have both "shoehorned" their military efforts into the antiquated authorisations."




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 31, 2017 7:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41754307

"President Barack Obama maintained that the laws gave him the authority that he needed for the campaign against the Islamic State (IS) group, an organisation that didn't exist when the laws were written.

Mr Trump has continued to carry out an aggressive campaign against the militants, whether in Niger or other countries.

Obama and Trump, says Ohlin, have both "shoehorned" their military efforts into the antiquated authorisations."

But Niger and IS do not sell and buy hundreds of billions of dollars in goods to and from the USA. With that much money at risk in Korea, the Pentagon might refuse to start a new war, no matter how much Trump screams and shouts and threatens, unless Congress declares war specifically on N Korea. But I can't be sure how stupid the military is. Who knows if they remember a 1950 - 1953 war that ended with a stalemate and millions of dead? That certainly disrupted Korean trade with the USA. The Pentagon might not want to repeat that, justified only by a passing whim of Trump, if they remember their own military history.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:48 AM

OONJERAH


Is the United States Planning to Attack North Korea?

Three US aircraft-carrier groups have now converged in the Pacific.

https://www.thenation.com/article/is-the-united-states-planning-to-att
ack-north-korea
/

The aircraft carriers USS Nimitz, USS Theodore Roosevelt, and USS Ronald
Reagan — three of the most powerful warships in the world — have now
converged on the western Pacific in a mighty show of force on the eve of
President Trump’s 10-day trip to Asia. ...
  ...
"The most promising move against Trump’s march to war is a bill introduced
by Representative John Conyers and Senator Ed Markey that would ban a
pre-emptive strike without congressional approval."

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Okay ... but did they pass that bill?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 11:44 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It would be good to see if the bill passed. You may have to be your own reporter on the story though, because the MSM is notoriously bad on news and follow-up.

Perhaps you could follow the doings in Congress. Do they maintain an internet-available agenda and minutes?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 2:02 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Maybe the problem will go away on its own.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-tunnel-nuclea
r-test-site-radiation-leak-punggye-ri-kim-jong-un-war-us-a8033161.html


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 3:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The people who are really worried about radiation are the Chinese who live right across the border. Not that the Chinese government seems to listen to the people all that well - though you could say the same about Japan's government and Fukushima.

If China had taken the lead in moderating NK's nuclear weapons development and testing, this could have been avoided. But you can't un-ring the bell. My feeling is that the physical situation is unstable. It's only a matter of time before the roof collapses and radiation is released, unless something can be done to stabilize the site. But even if there was a fix that could be jiggered, I don't think NK has the equipment and expertise to do it. Someone - perhaps China, or Russia, or both - is going to have to help out.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 7:11 PM

OONJERAH


1Kiki, "But even if there was a fix that could be jiggered,
I don't think NK has the equipment and expertise to do it."

OK then: NK has enuf expertise to fire off a few big rockets,
& the mountain there which was unstable is now releasing radi-
ation from its tunnels? Because they are storing the uranium
in there??

I don't quite get the picture, but it sounds bad* for NK, and
the timing with Trump's Asia visit is interesting-coincidental.

*Bad: setback for their nuclear missile program ... not to
mention it demonstrates their incompetence.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 7:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

*Bad: setback for their nuclear missile program ... not to
mention it demonstrates their incompetence.

I agree, it's a setback and it does demonstrate that they don't know as much as they think they do. But I also don't think it's going to slow them down much. iirc it took them about a year between the time spy satellites detected new spoils (from digging further down to test an H bomb), and the time they used the expanded tunnel for testing. They'll just dig out more tunnels and continue apace.





HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 4, 2017 7:28 PM

OONJERAH


Well then ... they should be forewarned!!

This is exactly the sort of thing that wakes up Godzilla!

... at least, it did when I was a kid.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
this is what a starving polar bear looks like
Tue, December 12, 2017 00:38 - 1 posts
Accusing Someone You Disagree With Of Being A Russian Troll Is Admitting You Have No Argument
Tue, December 12, 2017 00:28 - 88 posts
New Alabama Motto Contest
Mon, December 11, 2017 22:25 - 10 posts
Trump not invited to Paris December climate change summit for now, says France
Mon, December 11, 2017 22:20 - 6 posts
Bomb Exploded Times Square
Mon, December 11, 2017 21:15 - 7 posts
The Evidens
Mon, December 11, 2017 21:05 - 731 posts
Game Companies are Morons.
Mon, December 11, 2017 20:41 - 48 posts
Dow @ 20K. Time to jump off!
Mon, December 11, 2017 19:47 - 124 posts
Putin Orders Withdrawal Of Russian Troops During Surprise Syria Visit
Mon, December 11, 2017 17:50 - 2 posts
Where are the democrats? Waiting for the Deep State to get rid of Trump?
Mon, December 11, 2017 17:40 - 22 posts
Male Role Models
Mon, December 11, 2017 10:25 - 108 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Sun, December 10, 2017 23:25 - 236 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL