REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Syrian army punches through to beseiged Deir Ezzor

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, September 25, 2017 18:46
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Friday, September 15, 2017 5:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently, you stupid nitwit, you don't realize the problem with what you were doing. I was trying to tell you to forget name-calling and trolling ... it's usually irrelevant to the issue of "libel".

But when you constantly insinuate that someone might be a traitor, well, that IS relevant because that rumor can cause actual harm, and I can point to real-life instances where it has. It has to do with the "harm" that you have, or might have, caused. Calling someone a "human pile of excrement" just isn't as consequential as calling someone a traitor. It's the difference between hurting someone's reputation versus hurting someone's feelings.

And yes, I know KRAPO lives in Britain. Libel laws apply internationally, altho the cost of litigation prevents filings except in the most consequential cases. But if I knew where he was and filed a case against him, it would be heard in CALIFORNIA court. He'd have to fly over here to testify.

BTW, libel laws apply interstate more robustly than they apply internationally, so don't feel that just because you live in another state that you're protected.

I just like the way you keep twisting and squirming, trying to pretend that you have some sort of "right" to libel, and then trying to show how I "do the same thing", and then trying to demonstrate how what you were doing really wasn't.

Maybe it really wasn't, that would be for the courts to decide. But you're anonymous, remember? So stop shitting your pants.

BTW, if you want to know who pegs the libel-meter, it's THUGR.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 15, 2017 9:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


God what a fuckwit.

SO far, your entire "defense" consists of whine ...whine... whine ... but it's OK to be an online asshole! ... whine Clearly, you're a troll, you want to BE a troll, and anything getting in the way of you being a troll is "unfair". I guess you're just a born troll!

HINT: If the "names" were troll or fuckwit or GSTRING, nobody would give a shit. But if the names are embezzler, or traitor, or scam artist, or pedophile, that's different. I've already been investigated once as a result of online fuckwits like you, who in the throes of hysteria (along with a hysterical webmaster) turned my particulars over to the FBI, so don't tell me how "innocent" this all is.

Clearly, you know jackshit about real life, and how quickly things can go pear-shaped. So don't get TOO comfortable about being an online asshole because if ANYTHING comes of THUGR's or your constant libel, you'll see the inside of a courtroom. It'll be my special mission to make it so.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 15, 2017 9:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Germany Launches Probe After Pentagon's Syrian Arms Smuggling Story Goes Viral

The German government has opened an probe into an illegal Pentagon arms trafficking operation after a bombshell investigative report on the secret program went viral this week.

On Wednesday we reported on the continuing Pentagon arms pipeline to Syria which runs through Europe, the Balkans, and Caucuses, and which is based on a shady network of private contractors and altered US government paperwork. The Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) and the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) produced conclusive evidence and internal memos proving that not only is the Pentagon currently involved in shipping up to $2.2 billion worth of (mostly old Soviet) weapons from private dealers to US-backed Syrian militants, but is actually manipulating paperwork such as end-user certificates in order to conceal the ultimate destinations of the weaponry (in this case Syria).

The new investigation also confirms Bulgarian journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva's prior findings, which exposed the role of Azerbaijan-operated Silk Way Airlines in the weapons airlifts. Though independent journalists and regional monitoring groups have been digging into the Pentagon arms shipments throughout the summer, mainstream European and American press were reluctant to cover the story, even as a steady flow of incontrovertible proof emerged online in the form of documents, photos, and videos of mysterious cargo planes being loaded with weapons. Over the past two weeks WikiLeaks has also highlighted the emerging details of a developing story which saw at least one journalist come under scrutiny by European security officials.

Public records reveal that the Pentagon is shipping billions of dollars of arms to Syrian insurgents https://t.co/8idPs57GnI pic.twitter.com/2qQDLzymZk — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) September 13, 2017

After a week of the story picking up momentum, it appears we may finally be seeing the beginnings of public and governmental investigations forming as European governments perhaps reluctantly take stock of Pentagon arms pipelines in their territories now coming under public attention and outrage. As Stripes reports, Germany announced a new legal inquiry early Friday:

The German prosecutor’s office in Kaiserslautern said Friday it is looking into a report that the Pentagon used Ramstein Air Base to transport weapons covertly to rebel fighters in Syria — an allegation, that if true, might have broken German law.

...The weapons transfer through Ramstein would have required permission from the German government, the report stated.

Officials with Germany’s Economic Affairs Ministry told Stars and Stripes that the ministry did not give the U.S. military permission to transport weapons to Syria through the country. They denied having any knowledge of such activities.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-15/germany-launches-probe-after-
pentagons-syrian-arms-smuggling-story-goes-viral



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Friday, September 15, 2017 10:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by GEEBERS:
you got mad when I called you names on a forum

Thanks for admitting that you do that. Now, normally I'd say the first step to fixing your problem is admitting you have one ... but then, you're a born troll. It's not what you do, it's who you are. And the only way for you to stop trolling is to stop being.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, September 16, 2017 9:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The "problem" in the other forum is that I made a series of accurate predictions, the last one that I accidentally predicted the anthrax letters, and that scared the crap out of the midwest housewives that I was dealing with. It wasn't that I was nasty, it just that I was ACCURATE, which was very unpopular.

I have to say GSTRING, being accurate isn't a problem you'll ever have to deal with! You couldn't "discuss an issue" in a discussion forum to save your life!

But you DO insist on your "right" to be an online asshole, don't you? I think KIKI is right: Being a troll isn't what you do, it's who you are. The dark tetrad, combined with a low IQ.

I sure hope that you're not on a position of trust - a minister, a counselor, or a caregiver of any sort, because being a vicious, committed, and self-identified online troll would sure put a dent in your career, as well as putting a dent in the people that come in contact with you. But my impression is that you've got a nice comfortable niche somewhere (daddy's company?) which leaves you free to to be the sociopath that you are. And I'll bet that your sociopathy just shines through in all the walks of your life!

At least now you can stop wondering why you don't have any friends or a significant other.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, September 16, 2017 2:37 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


So, just to be clear Sig, you don't want to bring up whatever it was from the Syria/Ukraine thread that I supposedly "avoided like the plague"?

And you can't say whether Russia should be criticised for its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty because you "haven't put much thought into it"? Do you expect us to believe that? When you spent 31 pages in the Russia Invades Ukraine thread defending Russia?

Why don't you go away and get some principles straight, if you can, and then come back and apply them consistently. And ditch the Russian propaganda - it makes a fool out of everyone who consumes it.


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, September 16, 2017 2:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey there asshole!

Haven't you figured out by now that you were criticized BECAUSE YOU HAD NO EVIDENCE - and that calling you a liar and a propagandist is NOT the same as defending Russia?

Are you really that stupid? Or are you that dishonest? Your pick.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, September 16, 2017 3:42 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Haven't you figured out by now that you were criticized BECAUSE YOU HAD NO EVIDENCE - and that calling you a liar and a propagandist is NOT the same as defending Russia?


'No evidence' that the separatists shot down MH17 and that Putin annexed Crimea with his little green men? Those claims of yours and Siggy's look great in hindsight

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, September 16, 2017 5:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KRAPO, since you lie with every post (including the last one) just be prepared to be ignored for the foreseeable future.

Also, you're way the fuck off-topic.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, September 16, 2017 6:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
There is 'No evidence' that the separatists shot down MH17 and that Putin invaded Ukraine, as I kept insisting.

Because the FINAL MH17 REPORT which assigned blame based on EVIDENCE wasn't released, and, well, Russia didn't 'invade' Ukraine.






Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Sunday, September 17, 2017 7:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SDF Releases Statement Accusing Syrian, Russian Warplanes Of Airstrikes Against US-backed Fores Near Deir Ezzor

https://southfront.org/sdf-releases-statement-accusing-syrian-russian-
warplanes-of-airstrikes-against-us-backed-fores-near-deir-ezzor
/


Quote:

US-led Coalition Troops Were Alongside SDF Units When Russian Forces Struck “Coalition Partner Forces”

https://southfront.org/us-led-coalition-troops-were-alongside-sdf-unit
s-when-russian-forces-struck-coalition-partner-forces
/

Syrian forces and their allies bombed armed fighters within Syrian borders. Oh gosh. How awful.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, September 17, 2017 12:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
I'll go ahead and tell myself whatever I have to to justify my hate and protect my fragile ego.

And every personal attack I post instead of a topical response lets everyone know - I'm a troll.






Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Sunday, September 17, 2017 3:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

*snort* You were vilified for being too right???- GSTRING
Yes, you maroon. Because in the minds of these housewives, the only way that I could have predicted the anthrax letters was if I sent them myself. They really thought ... I swear to god, hand on a stack of Bibles ... that I had manufactured them.

But that's what rampant hysteria/ paranoia gets you: people seeing shit that isn't there. Yanno, kind of like when people saw WMD in Iraq. Or today, when people see "Putin" behind every Dem electoral defeat.

Quote:

Originally posted by G:
I'll go ahead and tell myself whatever I have to to justify my hate and protect my fragile ego.
And every personal attack I post instead of a topical response lets everyone know - I'm a troll.

KIKI, I don't know how you manage, but these are always funny.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 18, 2017 2:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Will The US Bomb? First Images Of Syrian Army Crossing The Euphrates River In Deir Ezzor

A correspondent with Al-Masdar News based in Damascus has confirmed that the Syrian Amy has crossed the Euphrates which runs through Deir Ezzor on Monday. The river forms a natural demarcation line separating Syrian government forces and their allies from the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF):

DAMACUS, SYRIA (4:00 P.M.) – The Syrian Army was capable today of crossing the Euphrates River after fully recapturing Sakr Island located to the north of Deir Ezzor Airbase.

Heavy Russian and Syrian airstrikes have pushed ISIS militants away from the eastern bank, paving the way for the government troops to set foot in the eastern bank for the first time in years.

With crossing the river, the government forces are inching closer to re-take the remaining territories under ISIS control. However, this will also put the Syrian forces face to face with the US-backed Kurdish forces; which launched its own offensive against the Islamic State in Deir Ezzor.


Other Middle East monitoring groups as well as regional correspondents have also confirmed the breaking news which could lead to a fresh outbreak of direct hostilities between the US-SDF alliance and Syria-Russia alliance:

SOHR says Syria army in Deir Ezzor has crossed Euphrates. Waterway serves as informal demarcation line between US & Syria/Iran-backed force. — Louisa Loveluck (@leloveluck) September 18, 2017

We noted over the weekend that as Russian and Iran-backed Syrian troops are moving in from the west, and with US-backed SDF forces operating mostly on the east side, the two factions have mostly stayed out of each other’s way in their "fight against ISIS" with the Euphrates acting as a dividing line. It now appears that dividing line has been breached by the Syrian Army - as Russian media is now keen to show the world (see screen shot of a Russian broadcast from location today).



On Saturday, a senior aide to President Bashar al-Assad said the government would fight any force, including the U.S.-backed militias, to recapture the entire country. ”I‘m not saying this will happen tomorrow ... but this is the strategic intent,” Bouthaina Shaaban said in a TV interview according to Reuters.ronically, The U.S.-led coalition said last week that the SDF did not plan to enter Deir Ezzor city, where Syrian troops recently broke an Islamic State siege that had lasted three years. Just a few days later, however, they appeared to have changed their mind.

Meanwhile, seeking to maintain the offensive momentum, a pro-Damascus military alliance launched attacks on Saturday from the southern corner of Deir Ezzor province to drive Islamic State from the Iraqi border. The last local vestige of the Islamic State is also coming under attack by U.S.-backed Iraqi government forces just over the border from Syria’s Deir Ezzor inside Iraq.

With the fate of Deir Ezzor - and much of the oil in the region - set to be sealed in the coming days, the Syrian war which has gradually disappeared from both the front pages and the public consciousness is now making a strong comeback in world headlines, especially as Syria/Russia/Iran seems to now be gaining full control of this key regional outpost.

Damascus would give up on Syrian oil field to US proxies for what reason and why? Wishful thinking. https://t.co/XmyHqPMiy2 — Elijah J. Magnier (@ejmalrai) September 18, 2017

The airspace over Deir Ezzor is potentially growing even more dangerous as there have long been rumors that the US coalition previously declared a de facto no fly zone (NFZ) over the north/eastern side of the Euphrates. In the meantime, Syrian and Russian air operations in the area will only increase with Syrian army advances.

According to Reuters over the weekend U.S.-backed militias, which have included various and assorted Al-Qaeda offshots, spinoffs and reverse mergers, said they came under attack from Russian jets and Syrian government forces in Deir Ezzor province.

FWIW, Anonymous claims that Russia (via Syria) set off the Father of All Bombs http://www.businessinsider.com/did-russia-drop-the-father-of-all-bombs
-in-syria-heres-what-we-know-2017-9
over an installation in Deir Ezzor prior to its liberation. What the Business Insider article doesn't say is that this underground bunker, which was especially hardened, is said to have housed a number of USA-trained jihadist proxy commanders who were due to be evacuated from the area, as well as three CIA officers. Be that as it may ...

Quote:

As there's been no military response from the US coalition after the reported attacks, it's likely that the two sides are talking through a long established military deconfliction phone line. In the weeks prior to things heating up in Deir Ezzor, The Navy Times initially described the deconfliction line as follows:

The U.S. is talking multiple times a day with Russia to deconflict ground and air operations in Syria, according to Gen. Stephen Townsend, commander of the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

Russia and the coalition have agreed to some deconfliction lines in the middle Euphrates River valley,” Townsend said, but he added that “not all of it yet” has been decided.


...It became clear that there needed to be a ground component to the deconfliction hotline with Russia, Townsend said. “It gets tougher [to communicate] with a force that isn’t friendly but not necessarily an adversary,” Townsend explained. “Those rehearsals have allowed us to come up with measures that seem to work,” he said. “We were able to work through that then.” Between air and ground deconfliction, “someone is talking to the Russians multiple times a day,” Townsend said. “It’s a fact of life.”

Will the US and its SDF proxy on the ground allow the Syrian Army to recapture sovereign Syria territory across the Euphrates? At this moment at least, it is looking like the US will not intervene on behalf of its proxy (primarily Kurdish SDF). Syria is probably further feeling new impetus as Iraqi Kurdistan is now threatening to move forward with its September 25 referendum on the establishment of an independent Kurdish state, which would no doubt attempt to carve out SDF occupied parts of eastern and northern Syria.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-18/will-us-bomb-first-images-syr
ian-army-crossing-euphrates-river-deir-ezzor


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 18, 2017 5:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


deconflicting - fantastic!




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:19 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Because the FINAL MH17 REPORT which assigned blame based on EVIDENCE wasn't released,


Did you miss the first of the two official reports that identified where the missile was fired from (separatist territory)?

As for the final report, which you keep referring to, exactly what hope are you holding out that Russia and the separatists won't be blamed?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Tuesday, September 19, 2017 2:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Because the FINAL MH17 REPORT which assigned blame based on EVIDENCE wasn't released, - KIK

Did you miss the first of the two official reports that identified where the missile was fired from (separatist territory)?
As for the final report, which you keep referring to, exactly what hope are you holding out that Russia and the separatists won't be blamed? - KRAPO



In order to demonstrate who was at fault, the chain of command ... with specific people identified ... has to be established. It's one thing to say Russia did it; it's another to identify WHICH Russian gave the order, if one did.

Quote:

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."= KRAPO
You would think that by now you would stop posting your own modus operandi on the board for all to see.

BTW, KRAPO, where IS that "Russian invasion" of Ukraine that I hear so much about? Those command posts? Those military emplacements? Those occupying forces, holding the restive population at bay?

CRIMEA TODAY

(That's the Russian flag btw)







-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:01 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In order to demonstrate who was at fault, the chain of command ... with specific people identified ... has to be established.


We'll see how far they get with identifying specific individuals. But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin.

Quote:

BTW, KPO, where IS that "Russian invasion" of Ukraine that I hear so much about?

Russia's war in Ukraine is still grinding on (well done for asking. You don't ask, you don't learn), a not-quite-frozen frozen conflict that has weekly civilian/military casualties .

Last November the ICC (International Criminal Court) ruled that Russia is waging war in Ukraine and that Crimea is in a state of ongoing occupation by Russia. This led to Russia quitting the ICC (its war crimes in Syria may also have had something to do with it) - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/world/europe/russia-withdraws-from-
international-criminal-court-calling-it-one-sided.html?_r=0


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

In order to demonstrate who was at fault, the chain of command ... with specific people identified ... has to be established. - SIGNY
We'll see how far they get with identifying specific individuals. But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin. - KRAPO

That is a legal leap that the relevant lawyers refuse to make. That BUK missile? Old, no longer in use by Russia. Maybe it was scavenged from a Ukrainian arms depot. Maybe it was fired by people on the ground, without an order from the top. The investigators are diligently pursuing who was there; that is the tack that they're taking.

Quote:

BTW, KPO, where IS that "Russian invasion" of Ukraine that I hear so much about?- SIGNY

Russia's war in Ukraine is still grinding on (well done for asking. You don't ask, you don't learn), a not-quite-frozen frozen conflict that has weekly civilian/military casualties .
Last November the ICC (International Criminal Court) ruled that Russia is waging war in Ukraine and that Crimea is in a state of ongoing occupation by Russia. This led to Russia quitting the ICC (its war crimes in Syria may also have had something to do with it) - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/world/europe/russia-withdraws-from-
international-criminal-court-calling-it-one-sided.html?_r=0

Oh, yes, the ICC. Would you believe that Russia is not under its jurisdiction, and wasn't even BEFORE it "quit" the ICC? (It never ratified membership since 2000). So for whatever reason that Russia left the ICC, it wasn't for fear of prosecution.

I'd sure like to see the ICC bring the USA to trial. But the USA is not a member either

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:39 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin. - KPO
That is a legal leap that the relevant lawyers refuse to make.


Nope, sorry, they've already made it:

Quote:

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a launcher brought into Ukraine from Russia and located in a village held by pro-Russian rebels, international prosecutors said on Wednesday.

...

Among the key findings were: the plane was hit by a Russian-made Buk-9M38 missile; the missile was fired from the rebel-held village of Pervomaysk in eastern Ukraine; and the launcher was transported into Ukraine from Russia.

“This Buk trailer came from the territory of the Russian Federation, and after the launch it was returned again to the territory of the Russian Federation,” said Wilbert Paulissen, chief investigator with the Dutch national police.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-mh17/malaysian-flight-
mh17-downed-by-russian-made-missile-prosecutors-idUKKCN11X2KW


Quote:

That BUK missile? Old, no longer in use by Russia.

The investigators say it came from Russia. Whether the Russian military currently uses it is irrelevant; all that matters is whether Russia still has stocks of it. They apparently do.

Quote:

Maybe it was scavenged from a Ukrainian arms depot.

Nope.

Quote:

Maybe it was fired by people on the ground, without an order from the top.

Look, no one is claiming that Putin gave the specific order to shoot down MH17. But the decision to send Russian troops and weapons into Ukraine to wage war against that country unquestionably came from him. The tragedy of MH17 - along with many other deaths in this war (I would argue all) - comes as a result of that undeniable fact.


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, September 21, 2017 1:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Man you're just insisting on beating this thing to death, aren't you?

Quote:

But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin. - KPO

That is a legal leap that the relevant lawyers refuse to make. - SIGNY

Nope, sorry, they've already made it:

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a launcher brought into Ukraine from Russia and located in a village held by pro-Russian rebels, international prosecutors said on Wednesday.- KPO

Then why haven't they released a report officially assigning responsibility? Why are they parsing intercepted communications to see if they can ID those involved? Why have they offered a sentence reduction to anyone who can come forward and help ID the actual people responsible? Jeez, KRAPO, I know that you're just hot to blame Russia for ... well... anything and everything .... but you just need to keep your shirt on until evidence is developed which will make the case.

Quote:

That BUK missile? Old, no longer in use by Russia.- SIGNY
The investigators say it came from Russia. Whether the Russian military currently uses it is irrelevant; all that matters is whether Russia still has stocks of it. They apparently do.- KPO

Maybe it was scavenged from a Ukrainian arms depot.- SIGNY
Nope.- KPO

Yanno, the post that started this whole "Russian invasion" thing had to do with a column (or convoy) of supposedly Russian vehicles crossing over into Ukraine on an unguarded part of the border ... of which there were apparently quite a few. With pictures, even! Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim. And yet there were no bodies, no prisoners, no burned-out vehicles, no eye (or ear) witnesses who heard or saw an artillery barrage that night, no satellite photos of pockmarked fields. No evidence whatsoever.

Now, my personal opinion is that Kiev grabbed some old Soviet equipment - probably from its own armories - slapped Russian plates on them, secretly trundled them INTO Russia, then notified some dupe of a reporter to record this fake "invasion" as it made its way back into Ukraine.

My point was that very early on, the border was extremely porous. It's possible that equipment made its way out of Ukraine so that it could transit more safely and then back in again where it was to be used. Another possibility is that this piece of equipment came from the Voentorg ... Russian arms dealers. Then again, it may have officially come from an old Soviet armory, selected for its age to provide "plausible deniability". I don't think that the Russian intelligentsia is that stupid, but ... who knows? We don't know for sure; which is why I suppose the Commission is still trying to figure out WHO was responsible.

Quote:

Maybe it was fired by people on the ground, without an order from the top. - SIGNY
Look, no one is claiming that Putin gave the specific order to shoot down MH17. But the decision to send Russian troops and weapons into Ukraine to wage war against that country unquestionably came from him. The tragedy of MH17 - along with many other deaths in this war (I would argue all) - comes as a result of that undeniable fact.- KPO

This all came about because the USA fostered a coup against a democratically-elected government, even with early (re)elections in the works.

Whoever it was that paid snipers to shoot into the Maidan is really the entity responsible. Up until then, the situation was retrievable, with Yanukovich backing down and doing everything he could to defuse the situation including- as I said- agreeing to early elections, despite the presence of hardcore neo-Nazi provocateurs embedded in the demonstrations.

I would bet you dollars to donuts it was CIA mercs that pushed events over the edge. But that is not proven, just as Putin's involvement isn't proven.What is undeniable is that Neocon Vicki Nuland, of the USA State Department did everything in her power to "glue this thing" to "make it stick together"; spending $5 billion on the overthrow of a pro-Russian government in Ukraine.

Here is the infamous recording of her planning the new government of Kiev, and enlisting Ban Ki Moon's help in getting it accepted as legitimate.

Just copy-paste this into your URL adding https://www. it doesn't link automatically, even as a non-secure link

youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM&feature=youtu.be

So, if you want to beat this thing to death even more, be my guest. Just don't expect a whole lot of participation.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meanwhile, in ON TOPIC NEWS: The USA continues to try to and overthrow the Syrian government

Quote:

Russian Special Forces Repel a US-planned Attack In Syria, Denounce the USA and Issue a Stark Warning

Written by The Saker

Something rather unprecedented just happened in Syria: US backed “good terrorist” forces attempted a surprise attack against Syrian government forces stationed to the north and northeast of the city of Hama.

What makes this attack unique is that it took place inside a so-called “de-escalation zone” and that it appears that one of the key goals of the attack was to encircle in a pincer-movement and subsequently capture a platoon of Russian military police officers deployed to monitor and enforce the special status of this zone. The Russian military police forces, composed mainly of soldiers from the Caucasus region, fought against a much larger enemy force and had to call for assistance. For the first time, at least officially, Russian special operations forces were deployed to rescue and extract their comrades. At the same time, the Russians sent in a number of close air support aircraft who reportedly killed several hundred “good” terrorists and beat back the attack (Russian sources speak of the destruction of 850 fighters, 11 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles, 46 armed pickup trucks, five mortars, 20 freighter trucks and 38 ammo supply points; you can see photos of the destroyed personnel and equipment here.

CAUTION https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/3693287.html)

What also makes this event unique is the official reaction of the Russians to this event.

Russian Special Forces Repel a US-planned Attack In Syria, Denounce the USA and Issue a Stark Warning

Head of the Main Operations Department at Russia’s General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoi declared that:

Quote:

“Despite agreements signed in Astana on September 15, gunmen of Jabhat al-Nusra and joining them units that don’t want to comply with the cessation of hostilities terms, launched a large-scale offensive against positions of government troops north and northeast of Hama in Idlib de-escalation zone from 8 am on September 19 (…) According to available data, the offensive was initiated by American intelligence services to stop a successful advance of government troops east of Deir ez-Zor“.


Today, other Russian officials have added a not-so-veiled threat to this accusation. The Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov has declared that:

Quote:

Russia unequivocally told the commanders of US forces in Al Udeid Airbase (Qatar) that it will not tolerate any shelling from the areas where the SDF are stationed (…) Fire from positions in regions [controlled by the SDF] will be suppressed by all means necessary.


This is unprecedented on many levels. First, the Russians clearly believe that this attempt to kill or capture a platoon of the Russian military police was planned by the United States. The fact that they are making this accusation officially shows the degree of irritation felt by the Russians about the duplicity of the Americans. Second, this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that Russian Spetsnaz forces had to be sent in to rescue a surrounded Russian subunit. All Spetsnaz operators survived, but three of them were wounded in the operation (the Russians are not saying how badly).

The close air support by very low flying SU-25 aircraft was obviously coordinated by Spetsnaz forward air controllers and probably saved the day. In other words, this was a close call and things could have ended much more badly (just imagine what the Takfiri crazies would have done, on video, to any captured Russian serviceman!). Finally, a US-organized attack on what was supposed to be a “de-confliction” zone combined with an attempt to capture Russian soldiers raises the bar for American duplicity to a totally new level.

The big question now is “do the Russians mean it?” or are they just whining with real determination to hit back if needed.

There are a couple of problems here. First, objectively, the Russian contingent in Syria is a tiny one if compared to the immense power of CENTCOM, NATO and the ever-present Israelis. Not only that, but in any US-Russian confrontation, Russia as a country is objectively the weaker side by any measure except a full-out nuclear exchange. So the Russians are not in a position of force. Furthermore, for historical and cultural reasons, Russians are much more concerned by the initiation of any incident which could lead to all-out war than the Americans who always fight their wars in somebody else’s country.

This might seem paradoxical, but the Russians fear war but they are ready for it. In contrast to the Russians, the Americans don’t fear war, but neither are they ready for it. In practical terms this means that an American miscalculation could very well lead to a Russian military response which would stun the Americans and force them to enter an escalatory spiral which nobody would control.

Remember how Hillary promised that she would unilaterally impose a so-called “no-fly” zone over Syria? She promised not only to deploy US aircraft above Russian forces in Syria, but she also promised that she would force the Russian Aerospace forces out of the Syrian skies. Thank God, this crazy witch was not elected, but it appears that folks with the same arrogant and, frankly, completely irresponsible point of view are now back in power under Trump.

My fear now is that the incompetent, arrogant, not too bright and generally ignorant commanders at the Pentagon and the CIA will simply ignore clear warning signs coming from the Russians, including the public announcement that the Kremlin has given the authority to use force to protect Russian personnel to the local Russian commanders in Syria. In plain English, this means that if they are attacked the Russians in Syria do not need to consult with Moscow before using force to protect themselves. By the way, such rules of engagement are pretty common, there is nothing earth shattering here, but the fact that they were made public is, again, a message to the AngloZionist and the “good” terrorist they use to try to conquer Syria.

This time around we (the world) were lucky. The Syrians fought hard and the “good” terrorists were probably surprised by the ruthless determination of the Russian military police forces (in reality, mostly Chechen special forces) and of the Spetsnaz operators. It is one thing to fight Syrian conscripts, quite another to deal with these hardened warriors. But the next time around the outcome could be different.

The bigger picture is also one which gives me a great deal of concern. The Syrians, with Iranian, Hezbollah and Russian help, have freed Deir ez-Zor and have crossed the Euphrates river and are moving further East. In plain English this means that the US and Daesh have lost the war and that the last region of Syrian from which the AngloZionists can hope to partition the country (their current “plan B”) and establish a permanent US military presence is now threatened by the Syrian advance. The distance between the US forces currently deployed in northeastern Syria and Syrian, Iranian, Hezbollah and Russian forces is becoming shorter and shorter each day. I can just imagine how, say, Iranian or Hezbollah forces which are already “smelling” the nearby presence of US forces are drooling with hunger for the moment they will finally be able to get their hands on their old and most hated foe. I feel sincerely sorry for the first US unit to make contact with the Iranians or Hezbollah forces.

Right now the Americans are hiding behind the Kurds, but sooner or later the Iranians or Hezbollah will find them. As for the Kurds, their situation in Iraq is precarious, to put it mildly: they are surrounded on all sides by the Turks, the Syrians and the Iranians and their only more or less stable zone of control is in Iraq. The Americans understand that perfectly, hence their desperate attempts to stop the Syrians.

This is a very dangerous situation: even though CENTCOM and NATO are by far the “biggest guys on the block”, in Syria the Americans are cornered, their corner is shrinking fast and it remains entirely unclear how this process can be stopped. Hence the attack on the de-confliction zone we just witnessed.

I hope that eventually the Americans will do what they did in al-Taif and simply pack, declare victory and leave. That would be the only rational thing to do. But after listening to Trump at the UN I don’t get the feeling that being rational is at the top of the US priority list.

That’s all rather frightening.

http://thesaker.is/russian-special-forces-repel-a-us-commanded-attack-
in-syria-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning
/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:41 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
http://thesaker.is/russian-special-forces-repel-a-us-commanded-attack-
in-syria-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning
/



Yet another pro-Russian blog

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

http://thesaker.is/russian-special-forces-repel-a-us-commanded-attack-
in-syria-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning
/

Yet another pro-Russian blog - KRAPO

And yet, you can't demonstrate that what he wrote is WRONG. (Just as you can't demonstrate that what I wrote is wrong.) So all you're doing is burying your head up your ass because the news conflicts with your biases.

GOOD JOB!





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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:23 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, my personal opinion is that Kiev grabbed some old Soviet equipment - probably from its own armories - slapped Russian plates on them, secretly trundled them INTO Russia, then notified some dupe of a reporter to record this fake "invasion" as it made its way back into Ukraine.




Quote:

What is undeniable is that Neocon Vicki Nuland, of the USA State Department did everything in her power to "glue this thing" to "make it stick together"; spending $5 billion on the overthrow of a pro-Russian government in Ukraine.




Ok, now that's the jokes out of the way. Let's respond to the rest of your post.

Quote:

Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim.

You keep making this claim, but I've never seen you back it up. Cite?

Quote:

Jeez, KPO, I know that you're just hot to blame Russia for ... well... anything and everything ...

Err, did you read what I just posted? The missile came from Russia and was fired from separatist territory, and then the launcher was sneaked back into Russia. The official investigators have ALREADY STATED THIS. At this point there is NOTHING you can say that can absolve Russia. So go ahead and say that this is off topic, or whatever. Because, I'll say it again:

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY THAT CAN ABSOLVE RUSSIA.

Quote:

My point was that very early on, the border was extremely porous. It's possible that equipment made its way out of Ukraine so that it could transit more safely and then back in again

These mental games you play where you come up with ridiculous scenarios where Russia is somehow not responsible - you realise you're insulting the memory of 298 innocent people, right? And mocking the grieving families, for whom the truth of how their loved ones died is sacred? For once, treat the truth as sacred.


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What is undeniable is that Neocon Vicki Nuland, of the USA State Department did everything in her power to "glue this thing" to "make it stick together"; spending $5 billion on the overthrow of a pro-Russian government in Ukraine.-SIGNY

Ok, now that's the jokes out of the way. Let's respond to the rest of your post.- KRAPO



Not so fast, KRAPO.Victoria Nuland's Admits Washington Has Spent $5 Billion to "Subvert Ukraine" (7:42)



Two things some to mind:

1) AND WE GET ALL TWEAKED BECAUSE SOMEBODY IN RUSSIA PAID FOR $50,000 (or $100,000) in ADVERT IN 2016???

2) As you listen to the speech in its entirety, notice how Nuland makes this a case of Ukraine becoming "European", and how she harps on IMF-required "reforms" (i.e austerity).

Quote:

Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim. - SIGNY

You keep making this claim, but I've never seen you back it up. Cite?- KRAPO

Which part? That Poroshenko claims he destroyed the convoy? Or that the "invasion" story was backed up by the NATO Scy general (who was Ramussen at the time, not Stoltenberg.)

Poroshenko claims to have destroyed the convoy:
Quote:

Ukraine claims it has destroyed Russian military vehicles in the country's east, a day after a column was spotted moving across the border. Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko, told David Cameron by phone that his country's armed forces had destroyed part of an armed convoy that the Guardian saw moving through a gap in a border fence on Thursday night.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/ukraine-claims-destroyed
-russian-military-vehicles-crossed-border


Rasmussen backs the "invasion" story
Quote:

Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said that "despite hollow denials", it was now clear that Russia had illegally crossed Ukraine's border.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28984241

And look! I brought British sites, just for you!

Quote:

Jeez, KPO, I know that you're just hot to blame Russia for ... well... anything and everything ...

Err, did you read what I just posted? The missile came from Russia and was fired from separatist territory, and then the launcher was sneaked back into Russia. The official investigators have ALREADY STATED THIS. At this point there is NOTHING you can say that can absolve Russia. So go ahead and say that this is off topic, or whatever. Because, I'll say it again:

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY THAT CAN ABSOLVE RUSSIA.



Since its so very clear cut, why no official report?
Clearly, KRAPO, you don't know what "evidence" is, or how it applies legally. When push comes to shove, you rely on emotion and faux outrage.

NOW THAT I'VE PROVEN YOU ENTIRELY WRONG- AGAIN- I'm putting you on "ignore" until you start posting like a grownup. And on-topic.

*****

SAMPLING OF KRAPO'S BULLSHIT IN THIS THREAD

Quote:

that they're actually bothering to fight ISIS. I wonder if this will affect Assad's oil & gas deals with ISIS?
As if Assad is supporting ISIS.

Quote:

This is what that suppression looks like: shelling of rebel-held towns. Just an example from today
Oh yes, the poor head-lopping terrorists got killed. And yet, mot a mention of USA killing as many as 40,000 people in Deir Ezzor and displacing almost 200,000. But when the SAA was liberating Aleppo, all you heard about nonstop from KRAPO was about Assad's "war crimes". Biased much?

Quote:

the worst incidents have been carried out by the separatists - KRAPO
Claims of 500 killed in Debaltsevo - no cites, no links. Does not attempt to tally who killed the most TOTAL civilians. Rejects tallies from a website that he libelously calls "pro-Russian", rejects tallies from the relevant authorities, rejects information from an article that HE INSISTS he read, when he admitted that he didn't.

Quote:

Russia started this war that has killed 10,000+
No cites, no links.

Quote:

but when you lambasted the USA's violation of Syrian sovereignty (by bombing ISIS)
"Forgets" that the USA not only bombed ISIS in Syria, but also bombed official Syrian troops when they were fighting ISIS at Deir Ezzor, and :forgets" that the USA killed up to 40,000 civilians in Deir Ezzor and displaced almost 200,000.

Quote:

someone who cheerleads Russian violation of Ukrainian sovereignty.
Accuses me of "cheerleading" Russia (no cites, no links) when he clearly admits
Quote:

I ignore you a lot.
Similar to accusing Off-Guardian of being pro-Russian without even reading their article...

Quote:

You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article.- SIGNY
No, I formed my opinion by reading the first few lines, and the website's 'about' page.- KRAPO
You mean, "yes", I formed an opinion without reading the article. Lie.- SIGNY



Quote:

What she actually says is: "We've invested $5 billion in Ukraine to assist in these and other goals... (building democratic institutions
Deflects from the fact that the USA spent $5 billion in Ukraine. And since the USA didn't spend $5billion in Ukraine to KEEP THINGS THE SAME, avoids the obvious conclusion that the USA spent the money to change the government of Ukraine

I haven't even parsed ALL of your bullshit from this thread.

*******
RESPONSE (2)

KRAPO, are you going to admit that Assad doesn't support ISIS?

That Russia DIDN'T start the civil war in Ukraine?

That the USA DID spend $5 billion to change the Kiev government?

That you DIDN'T read the Off-Guardian article before rejecting it?

That I DON'T "cheerlead" Russia in Ukraine?

That the USA DID bomb Syrian troops and civilians, killing up to 40,000 and displacing almost 200,000?

LUCY! You got a lot of 'splainin' to do!

Quote:

It's ok KRAPO, I know you're never going to come out and say, "Sorry guys, I was wrong, I'll retract my claim". The key thing for me is that you've stared this particular wrongness in the face for long enough that you won't feel compelled to repeat it again.


So there you go.





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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 22, 2017 10:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ISRAEL, still in government-destruction mode ...

Quote:

Israel Strikes Damascus After Syrian Missile Defense Fires On Aircraft

For the third time in as many weeks Israel has reportedly bombed positions inside Syria. Syrian state media along with multiple regional outlets showed fires burning at a facility near the Damascus international airport in the early hours of Friday. Israeli newspaper Haaretz reports that like with previous attacks, Israel jets fired from over Lebanese airspace. But it appears the latest exchange was part of a tit-for-tat exchange of fire between Syria and Israel in a situation that continues to dangerously escalate.

Multiple reports are circulating that the Israeli attack was initiated after Syria's aerial defense missile system engaged and fired on an Israeli aircraft in the area. Video of what purports to show Syrian missiles firing on the aircraft circulated widely in Syrian social media and was picked up by Lebanese and Israeli news outlets. Early reports indicate that an Israeli drone was likely the target.

Quote:

#Syrian air defense downing an #Israeli drone over #Syria tonight. pic.twitter.com/yWCKZSzrCR — Hamosh (@Hamosh84) September 22, 2017


It appears that Israel's attack came in response to Syria's engaging the unidentified aircraft

Because, according to Netanyahu, Syria doesn't have the right to defend its own airspace??

Quote:

- though it's unclear if the target was hit. This latest incident is unique for the fact that Syria quickly publicized that its missile defense system engaged the Israeli target.

The Facebook page of a prominent Syrian pro-government militia reported in the early morning hours that, “an area near the Damascus international airport was attacked by a hostile missile." Israeli newspapers are claiming the site to be an ammunition storage depot.

The exchange of fire comes after a Tuesday incident wherein the Israel Defense Forces shot down what it identified as an Iranian-made drone which departed from Damascus and subsequently entered the demilitarized zone along the border on the Golan Heights. Israel's aerial defense command fired a Patriot missile and destroyed the drone.

Meanwhile, Israeli jets have been illegally operating in Lebanese airspace with increased intensity of late - even to the point of causing temporary moments of panic over southern Lebanon as low flying jets sometimes break the sound barrier.

Violation of Syrian airspace was more brazen in previous years of the war, but as we've explained previously it appears that Israel is carefully calculating it's strike positions over "neutral" Lebanese airspace so as not to force a Russian response by directly violating Syrian space.

Weeks ago senior Israeli officials were quoted as threatening to assassinate Syrian President Assad by bombing his palace in Damascus, while further adding that Israel will seek to derail the US-Russia brokered de-escalation deal reached in Astana, Kazakhstan earlier this summer. The Astana deal essentially put Russia in the driver's seat in Syria, which Israel sees as guaranteeing a permanent Iranian presence - something Prime Minister Netanyahu sees as intolerable.

Though rarely acknowledged in the media, Israel and Syria have been at open war since at least 2013, when Israel launched a massive missile attack against a Syrian defense technology facility in Jamraya outside of Damascus. Israel has also targeted Damascus International Airport on a number of occasions. During the summer, the head of Israel's air force acknowledged nearly one hundred IDF attacks on convoys inside Syria over the course of the past 5 years. And as a Wall Street Journal investigation confirmed, the Israeli army has been providing military aid to al-Qaeda linked rebels operating in Syria's south for years.

Israel + al Qaeda? Well, what the heck ... why the hell not? WE supply al Qaeda. And ISIS. SAUDI ARABIA supplies both, too. We're all just one big happy terrorist-loving family!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 22, 2017 6:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




At various times the Syrian-Russian side has come under mortar fire from SDF positions, even as Russia and the US are theoretically said to coordinate through a special military hotline. The SDF for its part claims it too has come under attack from the Syrian Army. The most significant event occurred just over a year ago when the US coalition launched a massive air attack on Syrian government troops in Deir Ezzor near the city's military airport at the very moment they were fighting ISIS. The US characterized it as a case of mistaken identity while Syria accused the US coalition of directly aiding ISIS by the attack. The end result was about 100 Syrian soldiers dead and over a hundred more wounded while ISIS terrorists were able to advance and entrench their positions.

Though US officials disclosed few elements of this week's unusual meeting, the US side did confirm Russia's threat of returning fire should Syrian soldiers come under attack. US coalition spokesman Colonel Ryan Dillon confirmed that, “They had a face-to-face discussion, laid down maps and graphics.” But the Russians publicly delivered further details outlining its message to the US military. Russian Major-General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement,“A representative of the U.S. military command in Al Udeid (the U.S. operations center in Qatar) was told in no uncertain terms that any attempts to open fire from areas where SDF fighters are located would be quickly shut down.” He added that, “Fire points in those areas will be immediately suppressed with all military means.” Russia has further openly accused the US of violating previously agreed to 'de-escalation' zones in Idlib (as part of Astana talks) using al-Qaeda proxies to engaged the Syrian Army in Idlib.

The US coalition hinted in its statements that future military-to-military talks could continue regarding coordination in Syria. Though Russian warnings sound alarmist, and though the situation is increasingly very dangerous for the prospect of escalation, the US side appears to be in a vulnerable enough position to listen. The fact that the meeting occurred in the first place and was publicly acknowledged by the Pentagon is hugely significant as a US ban on such direct military talks was put in place after the collapse in relations between the two nations following the outbreak of the Ukraine proxy war in 2014.

In reality some degree of US-Russian back channel communication and intelligence sharing probably existed long before the SDF made gains in Syria's east - this according to Seymour Hersh's 2016 investigation entitled, "Military to Military". Though (ironically) the CIA's push for regime change against Damascus was still operational and presumably in full gear at that time, the Pentagon's actions in Syria were always perhaps more humble regarding pursuit of regime change.

But what are current Pentagon plans for its SDF proxy?

It's no secret that the core component force of the SDF - the Kurdish YPG - has at times loosely cooperated with the Syrian government when the situation pragmatically served both sides. At the same time Damascus has over the past few years recognized the Kurds as a militarily effective buffer against both ISIS and other powerful jihadist groups like al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham. While many Russian and pro-Damascus analysts have accused the SDF of being a mere pawn of US imperialism meant to permanently Balkanize the region, this is only partially true - the truth is likely more nuanced.

No doubt, the US is laying plenty of concrete in the form of forward operating bases across Kurdish held areas of northern and eastern Syria (currently about a dozen or more). And no doubt the US is enabling the illegal seizure of oil fields formerly held by the Islamic State, but Kurdish and US interests are not necessarily one and the same. The Kurds know that the best they can hope for in a post-war Syria is a federated system which allows Kurdish areas a high degree of autonomy. They also know, as decades of experience has taught them, that they will eventually be dumped by the US should the political cost of support grow too high or become untenable. For now the Kurds are gobbling up as many oil fields as possible before they are inevitably forced to cut deals with Damascus.

That is it. #Kurdistan referendum has gone ahead. Diaspora Kurds can begin early voting. First vote has been cast in China.

— Namo Abdulla (@namo_abdulla) September 22, 2017

Though the US endgame is the ultimate million dollar question in all of this, it appears at least for now that this endgame has something to do with the Pentagon forcing itself into a place of affecting the Syrian war's outcome and final apportionment of power: the best case scenario being permanent US bases under a Syrian Kurdish federated zone with favored access to Syrian oil doled out by Kurdish partners. While this is the 'realist' scenario, there's of course always the question that an independent Kurdistan could one day be realized out of the merging of Kurdish northern Iraq and Syria. But this would be nothing less than a geopolitical miracle. For now, early voting has begun in the Kurdish diaspora ahead of the planned for September 25th referendum on Kurdish independence, with the very first votes reportedly being cast in China.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 22, 2017 11:14 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not so fast, KPO. Victoria Nuland Admits Washington Has Spent $5 Billion to "Subvert Ukraine" (7:42)


Haha, you're such a liar!

What she actually says is: "We've invested $5 billion in Ukraine to assist in these and other goals... (building democratic institutions - KPO)"

Such an obvious lie! Did you think I wouldn't check?? (In truth I already knew. You should know, dearest Siggy, that when I tackle you on a point it's usually because I already know the facts and am confident I'm right)

Quote:

Two things come to mind:



No. You've just got caught in a lie - why should anyone listen to what further points you have to make? Have you ever thought that if you have to lie to make your point - that maybe your whole point is wrong??

Quote:


2) As you listen to the speech in its entirety,


I'm LOL-ing at you typing this and hoping people don't.


Quote:

You keep making this claim, but I've never seen you back it up. Cite?- KPO
Which part? - SIGGY


It's quite clear what I'm asking for - I underlined it. Yet you still haven't provided it. I'll quote it again:

Quote:

Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim.

Here you are saying that Kiev claimed to destroy the convoy, and that NATO backed up Kiev's claim. So where is the link that shows NATO talking about the convoy being destroyed? Wait a minute... do you think... NATO never said anything about the convoy being destroyed? Wait a minute... that would mean... you were completely wrong... again...

Quote:


Since it's so very clear cut, why no official report?


I'm not really sure what your point is. The investigators make clear in the article what they know already with certainty, and what they don't. As for why they released some of the results of the investigation before all of the results are ready, I guess because the grieving families have a right to know what happened to their loved ones?

Quote:

NOW THAT I'VE PROVEN YOU ENTIRELY WRONG- AGAIN

Just, lol.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, September 23, 2017 6:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SDF Shelled Government Troops Crossing Euphrates. 9 Soldiers Killed – Unconfirmed

On Friday, the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces shelled a group of Syrian Arab Army (SAA) soldiers while it was crossing the Euphrates River near Deir Ezzor city, according to reports circulating online.

The shelling allegedly resulted in killing of 9 SAA soldiers. However, no photos or videos from the scene were provided.

Pro-Kurdish media activists are denying reports that the SDF shelled the SAA near the Euphrates.

On September 21, the Russian military announced that it will strike any force that shell government forces or Russian special task forces operating near Deir Ezzor city.

Earlier in September, the SDF and SDF-linked media outlets repeatedly claimed that the US-backed force will not allow government troops to cross the Euphrates and will “liberate” the entire Deir Ezzor province.

****
Oh BTW, KRAPO, I didn't want to bury relevant posts in bullshit, like you seem intent on doing to this thread, but I did edit a previous post with a sampling of your bullshit and lies. As you post more bullshit, I'll just add to the list; it will stand as my reply to your off-topic posts without generating more off-topic posts to this thread.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, September 24, 2017 12:53 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Ok Sig, so are you dropping your claim that NATO backed Kiev's claim that the Russian convoy was destroyed?

Quote:

KPO, I didn't want to bury relevant posts in bullshit, like you seem intent on doing to this thread, but I did edit a previous post

If you want to move the discussion to another thread, fine. If you want to run from it, fine. What's the rationale behind responding to me by editing your old posts?


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, September 24, 2017 2:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Russian MoD: US Strongholds Found In ISIS-held Regions Near Deir Ezzor


One of the questions that would come up, for anyone who cares to read a map of Syria, is How did the (USA-backed, Kurdish-based) SDF move from northern Syria bordering Turkey and part of Iraq, which is their base, to Deir Ezzor, which is significantly to the south, without any battles being fought? The implication is that USA Spec Ops greased the way for the SDF thru ISIS-held territory.

If you read this text, it will say that USA Special Forces were embedded with ISIS. I've quoted the text here, but corrected some typos and grammatical errors.

Quote:

On Sunday, the Russian Ministry of Defense (Russian MoD) revealed in an official statement that US Special Operations Forces units enabled the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) to smoothly advance through ISIS formations in Deir Ezzor governorate.
As I read this, it sounds to me like the Russian MOD is saying that USA Spec Ops were embedded with ISIS.

Quote:

The Russian MoD statement said that the US Special Operations Forces units were spotted at ISIS strongholds. However, there was “no evidence of assault, struggle or any US-led coalition airstrikes to drive out the militants.”

Quote:

“The shots clearly show the US SOF units located at strongholds that had been equipped by the ISIS terrorists. Though there is no evidence of assault, struggle or any US-led coalition airstrikes to drive out the militants.


Despite that the US strongholds being located in the ISIS areas, no screening patrol has been organized at them. This suggests that the US troops feel safe in terrorist controlled regions,” the statement said.

Furthermore, the Russian MoD released satellite photos of ISIS strongholds in Deir Ezzor governorate that were taken on September 8-12. The photos showed several US-made Humvee vehicles, which are in service with the US Special Operations Forces.

The official statement also revealed that the US Special Operations Forces didn’t organize any patrols on the front lines with ISIS. This suggests that the US Special Operations Forces felt safe in the newly captured positions although ISIS fighters are only meters away.

The evidences released by the Russian MoD explains the rapid advance of the SDF in Deir Ezzor governorate during the last two weeks. The Russian MoD announcement also confirmed the US Special Operations Forces role on the ground may be bigger than the role played by the SDF itself.



Satellite photos and original article here
https://southfront.org/russian-mod-us-stronghols-found-in-isis-held-re
gions-near-deir-ezzor
/

****

Oh BTW KRAPO, I DID respond to you post. But I refuse to make my response to your off-topic posts the last post in the thread, because that's what people see first. CLEARLY, you're attempting to thread-jack. But if Ukraine is such a burning issue for you, and GSTRING's thread is too long for your taste, feel free to start another thread. I know you know how.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, September 24, 2017 3:57 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


It's ok Sig, I know you're never going to come out and say, "Sorry guys, I was wrong, I'll retract my claim". The key thing for me is that you've stared this particular wrongness in the face for long enough that you won't feel compelled to repeat it again.

I'll leave you to your loony Russian propagandising now. US special forces teaming up with ISIS? Uh-huh...

*backs away slowly*

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, September 25, 2017 1:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


OH BTW KRAPO, I DID RESPOND TO YOUR POSTS. If anyone wants to read them you'll have to pick thru my previous posts to see where I added the response.

It's always good to know what others are saying about you ...

Quote:

Russia Blames US For Death Of Top General In Syria

Shortly after Russia disclosed on Sunday that a top Russian military commander, Lieutenant General Valery Asapov - who was serving as one of Russia’s "military advisers" in Syria - was fatally wounded by an exploding shell in a mortar attack by ISIS terrorists, on Monday the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said that the “two-faced policy” of the United States was to blame for the death of the Russian General in Syria.

“The death of the Russian commander is the price, the bloody price, for two-faced American policy in Syria,” Ryabkov told reporters, according to RIA.

Killed in ISIS shelling near #DeirEzzor, Asapov is to be presented with a state decoration posthumously https://t.co/HjBSWLvdeD pic.twitter.com/Y1nGlIA8nF

— RT (@RT_com) September 24, 2017

The Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday that Asapov had been killed by Islamic State shelling near Deir al-Zor; his death was revealed around the time Moscow disclosed what it said was photographic evidence showing US special operations located at Islamic State positions in Syria.

The aerial photos of ISIS' territory north of #Deir_ez_Zor where #USA special operation troops are seen https://t.co/lH6u8H9bvZ pic.twitter.com/gjqlQubi9o

— ?????????? ?????? (@mod_russia) September 24, 2017

Russia has complained about what it has suggested are "suspiciously friendly ties" between U.S.-backed militias, U.S. special forces, and Islamic State in the area, accusing Washington of trying to slow the advance of the Syrian army.

As a reminder, on Sunday the Russian Ministry of Defense published aerial images which they say show US Army special forces equipment located north of the Syrian town of Deir ez-Zor, where IS militants are deployed. The US troops do not face any “resistance from the ISIS militants,” while their positions have no screening patrol, which could indicate that they “feel absolutely safe” in the area, the ministry said. The US Central Command however denied the accusations in a written statement to RT.

“The allegations are false. For operational security, we do not comment on ongoing operations or the current positions of Coalition personnel and our partner forces,” the Combined Joint Task Force-Operation Inherent Resolve said.

Ryabkov also questioned Washington’s intention to fight Islamic State in Syria.

“The American side declares that it is interested in the elimination of IS ... but some of its actions show it is doing the opposite and that some political and geopolitical goals are more important for Washington,” Ryabkov said according to Reuters.

Meanwhile, in keeping with the growing escalation between Russia and the US over Deir Ezzor, earlier on Monday, American-backed Syrian militias again accused Russian warplanes of striking their positions in the oil-rich province, near a natural gas field they seized from Islamic State last week. Russia denied that.

Despite the growing escalations, the Russian and US militaries maintain “intensive” contacts at different levels, Ryabkov said


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-25/russia-blames-us-death-top-ge
neral-syria



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 25, 2017 6:46 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OH BTW KPO, I DID RESPOND TO YOUR POSTS. If anyone wants to read them you'll have to pick thru my previous posts


Haha, I love this. This is next level Siggy evasion tactics. "Oh I absolutely did provide that cite KPO repeatedly asked for to back up that bullshit claim I made - you just have to play hide and seek through my old posts to find it."

A++

Ok, sorry Sig. Back to Zerohedge and the USA-ISIS axis.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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