REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Evidence: So where are we now(II) ?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, July 7, 2018 14:22
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9381
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Friday, November 17, 2017 3:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Still no evidence.
Just hype, hoopla, smoke and mirrors.

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 7:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I'm objecting to is the constant one-sided focus on Trump.

IF YOU HAD RAISED OBJECTIONS TO THE CLINTON'S UNETHICAL, IF NOT DOWNRIGHT ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR, I'D SAY THAT YOU REALLY WERE INTERESTED IN DRAINING THE SWAMP.

But the reality that that you're either partisan hacks (like SECOND) or deep-state trolls (like THUGR) and nobody would EVER mistake you for objective arbiters of anything.

I hear about Clinton's behavior all the time in Texas from over-stimulated Republicans: Did you hear she killed Vince Foster? Did you know drugs were smuggled into Arkansas under Clinton protection? Did you know she violated email protocol that put the USA at risk of something? Did you know her negligence killed those embassy guys in Libya? Did you know Clinton would start a war with Russia and there would be H-bombs dropped on Houston? And on and on and on. And everyone of those Republicans and Signym think they are speaking The Truth when what they are actually doing is only imaginative conspiracy theorizing.

Where did Signym get the idea of "objective arbiters"? I don't think they are easy to find in this world. The arbiters would have to be from outside the USA. They couldn't be Russians. They couldn't be Canadians because Trump has an effect on Canada. Maybe a Swiss objective arbiter? To get a provably "objective arbiter" you'd need a time machine to bring someone from the distant past, before there was a USA. Socrates? Shakespeare?

Should it ever make it into a courtroom, Trump has this going for him: an undernoticed series of Supreme Court decisions in recent years have made it nearly impossible for the government to secure convictions in cases of corruption. We are in a situation where politicians whose conduct meets any normal person’s understanding of corrupt behavior aren’t held legally accountable.
www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/11/15/16656784/menendez-corruption-supre
me-court


But there is evidence a prosecutor could use to beat Trump to death:
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/the_trump_to
wer_in_panama_may_have_been_used_to_launder_drug_money_from.html

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 8:29 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
I hear about Clinton's behavior all the time in Texas from over-stimulated Republicans: Did you hear she killed Vince Foster? Did you know drugs were smuggled into Arkansas under Clinton protection? Did you know she violated email protocol that put the USA at risk of something? Did you know her negligence killed those embassy guys in Libya? Did you know Clinton would start a war with Russia and there would be H-bombs dropped on Houston?





Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 9:46 AM

THGRRI


How Russian Trolls Targeted The 2016 Election With Lies

Fake news tweets and social media posts that flooded the internet leading up to the 2016 presidential election came from a Russian troll factory that works around the clock like any IT facility—except lies were pumping out to control the American mind and put Donald Trump in the White House.

The Internet Research Agency, which works on behalf of Russia inside a guarded, concrete building in St. Petersburg, has day and night shifts and hundreds of former journalists and bloggers creating thousands of posts with false and controversial information to reach certain quotas.

It was "a merry-go-round of lies," Vitaly Bespalov, 26, who worked at the agency, told NBC News. "When you get on the carousel, you do not know who is behind you and neither you are aware of who is in front of you—but all of you are running around within the same circle.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-russian-trolls-targeted-th
e-2016-election-with-lies/ar-BBF7DmL






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Saturday, November 18, 2017 11:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So THUGR, SECOND if you can show that what I've posted is "false" and "lies" then maybe you win a point.

But, what HAVE I posted?

That I thought Hillary was ill because she stumbled and fainted her way thru the campaign (ON VIDEO), and demonstrated some seriously strange behavior ON VIDEO (which I linked) which looked like nothing so much as an overdose of Parkinson's medication? (And BTW, yes, I have seen that IRL so I'm not making an entirely uneducated connection here).

That she laughed and clapped like a delighted 6-year-old getting a b'day gift, when she said We came, we saw, he died ON VIDEO about Qaddafi being raped anally with a bayonet before being killed, and that her policy on Libya plunged that nation into a horror of total collapse, extremist terrorism, and civil war; and created a refugee crisis from which it has not yet emerged?
Quote:

Migrants from west Africa being ‘sold in Libyan slave markets’
West African migrants are being bought and sold openly in modern-day [public] slave markets in Libya, survivors have told a UN agency helping them return home.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-aucti
ons-un-migration


That she promised a "more kinetic" approach to Syria? (DOCUMENTED)

That she had over 60,000 emails on a separate (non State Dept) server, and had 33,000 "private" emails (about "yoga" and Chelsea's "wedding") bleach-bitted AFTER the files were subpoenaed?

That Bill Clinton managed to arrange to talk with Loretta Lynch DOJ while the investigation was ongoing, which disqualified her from the investigation? That Comey had originally characterized her handling of emails as "gross negligence" before deciding (outside of his purview) not to prosecute? That BOTH Clintons could reasonably be investigated for "OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE" because they have done things far, far beyond anything that Trump or his campaign has done, and the only thing holding back an investigation is the long-held tradition of not clobbering your political rival after they lost the election?

That the Clinton Foundation took hundreds of millions of "donations" from foreign powers, notably the Saudis, in what appeared to be a "pay to play" arranged with Hillary's State Department, and that the Clintons have been accused of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars (most notably from the Haiti Relief fund)?

That Hillary's State Department fomented war in both the Ukraine ("fuck the EU" Nuland) and Libya ("highly experience" Stevens)?


That Bill has taken multiple flights with his good friend, convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, on Epstein's "Lolita Express"?



****

So, Jared Kushner forgot to tell somebody about a few emails from a Russian asking for a meeting ... a meeting which Kushner rejected? How does that compare to bleach-bitting 33,000 emails which are under subpoena?

So, Trump fired Comey? How does that compare to Bill meeting with the head of the DOJ during an ongoing investigation of his wife?

****

I have posted, multiple times, that the Clintons and the Trumps, morally-speaking, were more-or-less on the same plane, with a slight edge towards Trump simply because he never had the YEARS OF CORRUPTION WHILE IN OFFICE in his background.

Show me how everything that I posted is "lies" and "fake news", or STFU.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 3:26 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So THUGR, SECOND if you can show that what I've posted is "false" and "lies" then maybe you win a point.

But, what HAVE I posted?




We have been and will continue to, point out what you are doing in real time. No need to rehash it all.





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Saturday, November 18, 2017 3:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

We have been and will continue to point out LIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. - THUGR


Fixed it for you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 3:39 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

We have been and will continue to point out LIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. - THUGR


Fixed it for you.



I offer as proof who the liar is by pointing out your continued practice of changing what others post. It's also what your favorite source zero hedge does.






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Saturday, November 18, 2017 4:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Meh...

While I'm going to admit that it would get extremely annoying to me if somebody constantly was doing that to my posts, nobody would read that and think you actually said what was in the "fixed" post.



I do check my own quote when somebody quotes me and so far I've never seen anybody intentionally change what I post and try to pass it off as something I actually said.

The worst I've ever seen happen is that a quote of somebody else's was mistakenly attributed to me on occasion. I don't know if I've caught this everytime it's happened, but whenever I did I got an apology and it was fixed.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 4:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

We have been and will continue to point out LIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. -THUGR
Fixed it for you.- SIGNY

I offer as proof who the liar is by pointing out your continued practice of changing what others post. It's also what your favorite source zero hedge does. - THUGR

Nobody would ever read my post ... where I clearly strike out your words and insert my own comments ... and assume it was yours. It is very clear that I think you're a liar, not that YOU admit to being one.

None of your "friends" here on the board will back you up on your particular grotch about this because it's clear TO EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU what you posted versus what I posted.

And only you would pretend that a clearly edited post was some sort of "lie".

So sit on it and spin.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 5:26 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

We have been and will continue to point out LIE ABOUT what you are doing in real time. -THUGR
Fixed it for you.- SIGNY

I offer as proof who the liar is by pointing out your continued practice of changing what others post. It's also what your favorite source zero hedge does. - THUGR

Nobody would ever read my post ... where I clearly strike out your words and insert my own comments ... and assume it was yours. It is very clear that I think you're a liar, not that YOU admit to being one.

None of your "friends" here on the board will back you up on your particular grotch about this because it's clear TO EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU what you posted versus what I posted.

And only you would pretend that a clearly edited post was some sort of "lie".

So sit on it and spin.





It's that you do this type thing in many different forms Sig, not just the way you do it here. As I've stated before, you even make up some quoted statements yourself. Then you argue with yourself as though you were right and the other supposed person was wrong. You're sick comrade.





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Saturday, November 18, 2017 6:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's that you do this type thing in many different forms Sig,- THUGR
Oh baloney. Have you been able to show that anything that I just posted about Hillary was a "lie"?

No???

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me a "liar".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 9:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Have you been able to show that anything that I just posted about Hillary was a "lie"?

No???

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make me a "liar".

Signym, while you wait for an answer, you can read about why Putin wanted Trump to repeal the Magnitsky Act. That repeal won't be happening now that Congress knows about Trump Jr meeting with Russians seeking to repeal the law.
www.gq.com/story/bill-browder-putin-enemy-number-1

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 11:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, I don't think you understand how little I care about "what Putin wants".

First of all, he's over there; we're over here. Until his actions impact OUR interests, then I don't give a fuck; I really don't. But if we screw up our democracy and our economy responding to something that really isn't our business - much less inside of our scope of knowledge- that's a big problem. Restricting free speech or blowing huge wads of debt at the military over specious concerns ... not a good thing. Don't we have enough problems of our own, without creating more?

Secondly, citing "what Putin wants" is ridiculous because (a) Russian government action is decided by their Security Council, not Putin and (b) I doubt anyone really can explain, let alone predict, what Russia will do next; so clearly they don't know "what Russia wants" in any sense of the phrase.


Oh, and BTW ... I ALSO don't give a fuck whether Russia - or any other nation- expresses its POV in the media: social, American, or otherwise. I feel that Americans should be able to parse truth from fiction, and the important from the pointless; and if many Americans are so weak-minded that this is a difficult task for them, then I suggest that they stop letting their emotions get yanked by advertising and propaganda, and mentally toughen up and learn how to THINK. It will be better for them and for our country overall, and the only ones who will come out the worse for it will be the manipulators.

One more thing.

I have often heard of various industrialists described as being "close to Putin" with no evidence whatsoever establishing this supposed connection. I stumble over that every time because I sincerely doubt that anyone knows much of anything about who is "close to Putin" and who isn't; and just to confirm that concept, I heard a very interesting video from a very Xtian fundamentalist guy who has a deep and abiding hatred of all things Rothschild, who explains in great detail about an industrial magnate (who was widely referred to as being "close to Putin") and how he wrapped up all of the power and aluminum production in Montenegro, screwed his customers and fired all of his workers in a Russian town, and was represented by ... Davis- Manafort when negotiating with Rothschilds and Soros.

But when you see the interaction between this magnate (and his minions) and Putin, you realize that he wasn't "close to Putin" at all; at least, not at that moment!



This wasn't Putin settling a labor dispute, this was Putin bitch-slapping a backstabbing oligarch.

I'll see if I can find that video again, because it reveals how little WE know about the details of what is really going on in Russia, and hopping up and down about boogeyman stories doesn't help.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 12:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




Approx 12:24 - 15:45

Make of the video what you will, the only thing that I find really unsupported is the reiteration that the oligarch, Oleg Deripaska is "close to Putin" because that public bitch-slapping suggests otherwise.

The relationships between Putin and the Russian oligarchs are changeable and shrouded in secrecy. These oligarchs are essentially very greedy people, much like George Soros or Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, and their interests and Russia's Security Council's interests seldom overlap. .

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 2:08 PM

THGRRI


SIG in the two posts about this, once again gives a full throated explanation on how Putin is innocent of all things when it comes to America. Sounds just like Trump, it could be anybody.


"Oh, and BTW ... I ALSO don't give a fuck whether Russia - or any other nation- expresses its POV in the media: social, American, or otherwise. I feel that Americans should be able to parse truth from fiction, and the important from the pointless." =SIG


We do this with the lies you post everyday SIG.

Comrade





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Sunday, November 19, 2017 4:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


AND STILL NO EVIDENCE, eh comrade troll?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 4:35 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
AND STILL NO EVIDENCE, eh comrade troll?




You really should try and tell the truth once SIG, you'll feel better. If you won't believe me maybe you'll believe one of these guys.




No legacy is so rich as Honesty. ~ William Shakespeare

Truth is generally the best vindication against slander. ~ Abraham Lincoln

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all the time. ~ Abraham Lincoln

Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the Truth.
~Benjamin Disraeli

“The Light is more than some abstract, unknowable energy force. Light is Truth. If Light is truth, then darkness must be lies. Each and every lie we tell to ourselves and others casts the shadow of separation upon us. Every time even the most minor deception is revealed and the truth is made known we are re-united with the Light. So, Let there be Light. Those are the words by which you can create your own magnificent world.” - Renee Bledsoe, Addiction Alchemy

Truth is such a rare thing, it is delighted to tell it. ~ Emily Dickinson

The Truth which has made us free will in the end make us glad, also. ~ Felix Adler

I was brought up to believe that the only thing worth doing was to add to the sum of accurate information in the world. ~ Margaret Mead

Always tell the Truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said.
~ Mark Twain

When in doubt, tell the Truth. ~ Mark Twain

It is the responsibility of intellectuals to speak the Truth and expose lies.
~ Noam Chomsky

The Truth is always exciting. Speak it, then. Life is dull without it. ~ Pearl S. Buck

Fiction is the Truth inside the lie. ~ Stephen King

The biggest consequence to telling a lie is, it leads you to telling another one.
~ Gary King

If you do not tell the Truth about yourself you cannot tell it about other people.
~Virginia Woolfe

Who lies for you will lie against you. ~ Bosnian Proverb

No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar. ~ Abraham Lincoln

A half Truth is a whole lie. ~ Yiddish Proverb

Those who think it is permissible to tell white lies soon grow color-blind. ~ Austin O’Mally

With lies you may get ahead in the world – but you can never go back. ~ Russian proverb

A lie has speed, but Truth has endurance ~ Edgar J. Mohn

Truth is the most valuable thing we have, so I try to conserve it. ~ Mark Twain

A lie may take care of the present, but it has no future. ~ unknown author

We tell lies when we are afraid….afraid of what we don’t know, afraid of what others will think, afraid of what will be found out about us. But every time we tell a lie, the thing that we fear grows stronger. ~ Tad Williams

Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom. ~ Thomas Jefferson

There is no such thing as an inconsequential lie. ~ Gary King

Truth allows you to live with integrity. Everything you do and say shows the world who you really are. Let it be the Truth. ~ Oprah Winfrey

What you get in your life is not a result of what you want, it is a result of Who You Are. ~ Marlon Smith

If you want to ruin the Truth, stretch it. ~ unknown author

The Truth is more important than the facts. ~ Frank Lloyd Wright

The Truth needs no rehearsal. ~ Barbara Kingsolver

Truth and Honesty is the oldest and most powerful of all of the human values.
~ Gary King

Have the courage to say No. Have the courage to face the Truth. Do the right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living your life with integrity.
~ W. Clement Stone

Integrity is doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching. ~ unknown author

Every lie has a consequence.....you cannot escape that.
~ Gary King

Integrity is telling myself the Truth. Andy Honesty is telling the Truth to other people.
~ Spencer Johnson

This above all; to thine own self be true. ~ William Shakespeare

The time is always right to do what is right. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.

Real integrity is doing the right thing, knowing that nobody’s going to know whether you did it or not. ~ Oprah Winfrey

If you can not find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?
~Ralph Waldo Emerson


Live so that when your children think of fairness and integrity, they think of you.
~ H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

Ethics is nothing else than reverence for life. ~ Albert Schweitzer

Try not to become a man of success but rather try to become a van of value.
~Albert Einstein

Perhaps the most important thing we can undertake toward the reduction of fear is to make easier for people to accept themselves, to like themselves. ~ Bonard W. Overstreet

And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. ~ Marianne Williamson

A lie will easily get you out of a scrape, and yet, strangely and beautifully, repute possesses you when you have taken the scrape and left out the lie.
~Charles Edward Montague

Respect for the Truth is an acquired taste. ~ Mark Van Doren

Some people will not tolerate such emotional honesty in communication. They would rather defend their dishonesty on the grounds that it might hurt others. Therefore, having rationalized their phoniness into nobility, they settle for superficial relationships. ~ unknown author

There’s one way to find out if a man is honest ~ ask him. If he says, “Yes,” you know he is a crook. ~ Groucho Marx

Our lives improve only when we take chances ~ and the first and most difficult risk we can take is to be Honest with ourselves. ~ Walter Anderson

Where is there dignity unless there is Honesty? ~ Cicero

The shortest and surest way to live with honor in the world is to be in reality what we would appear to be. ~ Socrates











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Sunday, November 19, 2017 5:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I don't think you understand how little I care about "what Putin wants".

First of all, he's over there; we're over here. Until his actions impact OUR interests, then I don't give a fuck; I really don't.

Prosecutors care, even if you don't. Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries that there is a crime to be prosecuted and he needs to explain Trump's and Putin's motivation. Trump being elected to repeal the Magnitsky Act for Putin is crucial for explaining why Putin would be motivated to help Trump's campaign. Without the Magnitsky Act, all the evidence in the world doesn't tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow to a conclusion. Without a story the evidence becomes a million dead words on a thousand pieces of dry paper that don't make any sense to a jury.

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/magnitsky-act-kremli
n/535044
/

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 5:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


First you're assuming a motivation. THEN you're cherry-picking items to support your assumptions. And there's STILL no actual evidence anything happened.

Nevertheless, I assume this is going to go like WhiteWaterGate. It started with WhiteWater and ended up with Monica's blue dress. Bill was impeached on nothing at all related to the original item.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 6:59 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


THUGR
Quote:

AND STILL NO EVIDENCE, eh comrade troll? - SIGNY
You really should try and tell the truth once SIG, you'll feel better. If you won't believe me maybe you'll believe one of these guys.- THUGR

Fifty quotes "about the truth" and still no evidence? Son, in order to KNOW the truth you first have to open your eyes.


SECOND
Quote:

Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries ... [and] tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow
In other words, Mueller needs to spin a yarn? Maybe you need to tell that to THUGR, since HE seems to believe that "the truth" should figure into this somehow.

One of the things I'm really good at (in my job) is letting the data speak to me. You just gotta throw the data on the table and absorb it, without trying to impose a picture on the data.

I think the Trump campaign committee had far fewer inimical foreign contacts than the Clinton campaign committee.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 19, 2017 7:58 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:


I do check my own quote when somebody quotes me and so far I've never seen anybody intentionally change what I post and try to pass it off as something I actually said.


Kiki did this to me a few weeks ago. Only time I've seen it done.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, November 20, 2017 5:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

One of the things I'm really good at (in my job) is letting the data speak to me. You just gotta throw the data on the table and absorb it, without trying to impose a picture on the data.

I think the Trump campaign committee had far fewer inimical foreign contacts than the Clinton campaign committee.

Lawyers are not scientists. A prosecutor will paint an ugly picture, a caricature, of the defendant for the judge and jury. The prosecutor who has Clinton on trial would recast your sentence as "Trump campaign had fewer inimical foreign contacts than Clinton" then give a blizzard of examples of the Clinton campaign in contact with foreigners. Snow jobs are how prosecutors turn suspicion into convictions from juries.
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SECOND
Quote:

Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries ... [and] tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow
In other words, Mueller needs to spin a yarn? Maybe you need to tell that to THUGR, since HE seems to believe that "the truth" should figure into this somehow.

A prosecutor cannot win if the jury is family of the defendant. Well, Robert Mueller cannot win because half the Senate are Trump’s “family”, the Republicans.

Is Mueller wasting his time collecting evidence since a conviction is mathematically impossible when the Senate has 52 Republicans? I don’t think so because Mueller’s evidence, and Mueller’s story explaining the Trump/Putin connection, can influence Congressional Republicans.

After he was impeached, President Andrew Johnson didn’t get removed from office, but he did become a political nonentity without influence on public policy. The same could happen to Trump, depending upon how dramatic the story Mueller writes using the evidence. I predict it will be a very dramatic story because, generally, prosecutors aren’t on the defendants’ side. But Trump might fool me by getting a new prosecutor who just happens to be a loyal happy member of his Republican extended family. That would be dramatic twist, would it not?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Andrew_Johnson#Aftermath

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 20, 2017 7:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Lawyers are not scientists ... Snow jobs are how prosecutors turn suspicion into convictions from juries.
Lawyers aren't scientists, but YOU should be, otherwise you can't claim to know what's going on.

Lawyers have agendas: Prosecutors seek to prosecute, and defenders seek to defend. So far, you've been far into the prosecutor's camp: biased and prejudiced, which is what I've been saying all along.

I "get" that you hate Trump, but maybe you shouldn't be driven by bias and emotion. By allowing yourself to be so driven that you fail to look at ALL of the data is how people get manipulated by TPTB. And YOU don't want to be manipulated, do you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, November 20, 2017 8:19 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Lawyers are not scientists ... Snow jobs are how prosecutors turn suspicion into convictions from juries.
Lawyers aren't scientists, but YOU should be, otherwise you can't claim to know what's going on.

Lawyers have agendas: Prosecutors seek to prosecute, and defenders seek to defend. So far, you've been far into the prosecutor's camp: biased and prejudiced, which is what I've been saying all along.

I "get" that you hate Trump, but maybe you shouldn't be driven by bias and emotion. By allowing yourself to be so driven that you fail to look at ALL of the data is how people get manipulated by TPTB. And YOU don't want to be manipulated, do you?

Do three lawyers have a meeting before a trial and roll the dice to decide who is judge, who is prosecutor, and who is defense attorney? No! They arrive in the courtroom already having taken a side. They have prejudged the case. Are jurors selected at random? No! The defense and prosecution exclude jurors to gain advantage. Trials are in no way dispassionate seeking of the Truth. There is nothing scientific happening in a courtroom. And impeachment is even more manipulative and unscientific. It is a clash of wills.

Check into the impeachment of President Andrew Johnson if you want to see how messy a Trump impeachment will be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johnson#Impeachment

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 20, 2017 9:27 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND
Quote:

Robert Mueller needs to persuade grand juries ... [and] tell a story that a judge or a jury can follow
In other words, Mueller needs to spin a yarn? Maybe you need to tell that to THUGR, since HE seems to believe that "the truth" should figure into this somehow.

One of the things I'm really good at (in my job) is letting the data speak to me. You just gotta throw the data on the table and absorb it, without trying to impose a picture on the data.




And here we have it. SIG tells us if Mueller is able to make a case against Trump ( which is seconds point ), he will be lying, spinning a yarn. Nothing else needs to be said. This shows what I've said about SIG from day one to be true. She has an agenda and facts don't enter into it.





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Monday, November 20, 2017 10:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Do three lawyers have a meeting before a trial and roll the dice to decide who is judge, who is prosecutor, and who is defense attorney? No! They arrive in the courtroom already having taken a side. They have prejudged the case. Are jurors selected at random? No! The defense and prosecution exclude jurors to gain advantage. Trials are in no way dispassionate seeking of the Truth. There is nothing scientific happening in a courtroom. And impeachment is even more manipulative and unscientific. It is a clash of wills. - SECOND
SECOND, basically you're saying that you don't give a crap about the truth because you're describing - and excusing- a system in which truth doesn't figure.

I KNEW THAT.

Yanno, here I am ... arguing for the betterment of decision-making, the improvement of public discourse, and the advancement of our democracy ... and there YOU are saying It's an impassioned mob! It's always been an impassioned mob! It SHOULD be an impassioned mob!

I argue that YOU are the jury, not the prosecutor or the defense, and it is YOUR job to come up with a careful consideration of the truth, as best as you can. So far, you've been the prosecutor, who (BTW) has STILL not brought actual evidence to the table.


******

Quote:

And here we have it. SIG tells us if Mueller is able to make a case against Trump ( which is seconds point ), he will be lying, spinning a yarn.- THUGR


THUGR .... I'm simply saying what SECOND said, only in different words. "Spinning a yarn" isn't the same as "lying". It's "telling a story" ... which is what SECOND said.

I noticed that SECOND didn't disagree with my re-statement, instead he doubled down on it. If you disagree with SECOND's characterization- that Mueller has to "tell a story" that makes sense to a jury - take it up with him, not me. A lot of bullshit from you, a lot of false personal attacks on me and mis-characterizations (lies) about what I've posted.

But still, no evidence.

WHEN THE EVIDENCE BECOMES FULLY PUBLIC, THEN WE CAN MAKE A JUDGMENT. BUT NOT UNTIL THEN.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, November 20, 2017 11:51 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Do three lawyers have a meeting before a trial and roll the dice to decide who is judge, who is prosecutor, and who is defense attorney? No! They arrive in the courtroom already having taken a side. They have prejudged the case. Are jurors selected at random? No! The defense and prosecution exclude jurors to gain advantage. Trials are in no way dispassionate seeking of the Truth. There is nothing scientific happening in a courtroom. And impeachment is even more manipulative and unscientific. It is a clash of wills. - SECOND
SECOND, basically you're saying that you don't give a crap about the truth because you're describing - and excusing- a system in which truth doesn't figure.

I KNEW THAT.




This is a troubling conversation you're having. If the facts don't warrant charges or a trial then there won't be any. There are those who would site times when this was not the case. Where personalities here would obfuscate, or darken the reputation of the rule of law in this country, as they attempt to make the case the rule of law in this country is completely broken. Sounds like what is being said here. Typical of SIG, it's what she does. SECOND, I hope this is not what you are trying to convey.





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Monday, November 20, 2017 8:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.







HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I noticed that SECOND didn't disagree with my re-statement, instead he doubled down on it. If you disagree with SECOND's characterization- that Mueller has to "tell a story" that makes sense to a jury - take it up with him, not me. A lot of bullshit from you, a lot of false personal attacks on me and mis-characterizations (lies) about what I've posted.

But still, no evidence.

WHEN THE EVIDENCE BECOMES FULLY PUBLIC, THEN WE CAN MAKE A JUDGMENT. BUT NOT UNTIL THEN.

A reminder of an extremely peculiar fact about America: Only the United States makes routine use of jury trials in a wide variety of non-criminal cases. Other common law legal jurisdictions use jury trials only in a very select class of cases that make up a tiny share of the overall civil docket (like defamation suits in England and Wales), but true civil jury trials are almost entirely absent elsewhere in the world.

Jury trials in multi-cultural countries with a history of ethnic (or political) tensions may be problematic, and lead to juries being unduly biased and partial.

The fact that juries do not often have to give a reason for their verdict is also criticized, since opponents argue it is unfair for a person to be deprived of life, liberty or property without being told why it is being done so. In contrast where there is a decision by a judge or judges, they are required to provide often detailed reasons of both fact and law as to why their decision was made.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_trial

Impeachment is a civil matter, not criminal, right? I don't expect prison, but ostracism, for Trump.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:51 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/19/trump-first-moscow-trip-215
842


When did the KGB open a file on Donald Trump? We don’t know, but Eastern Bloc security service records suggest this may have been as early as 1977. That was the year when Trump married Ivana Zelnickova, a twenty-eight-year-old model from Czechoslovakia. Zelnickova was a citizen of a communist country. She was therefore of interest both to the Czech intelligence service, the StB, and to the FBI and CIA.

The KGB also distributed a secret personality questionnaire, advising case officers what to look for in a successful recruitment operation. In April 1985 this was updated for “prominent figures in the West.” The directorate’s aim was to draw the target “into some form of collaboration with us.” This could be “as an agent, or confidential or special or unofficial contact.”

The form demanded basic details—name, profession, family situation, and material circumstances. There were other questions, too: what was the likelihood that the “subject could come to power (occupy the post of president or prime minister)”? And an assessment of personality. For example: “Are pride, arrogance, egoism, ambition or vanity among subject’s natural characteristics?” (Need I add that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?)

The most revealing section concerned kompromat. The document asked for: “Compromising information about subject, including illegal acts in financial and commercial affairs, intrigues, speculation, bribes, graft … and exploitation of his position to enrich himself.” Plus “any other information” that would compromise the subject before “the country’s authorities and the general public.” Naturally the KGB could exploit this by threatening “disclosure.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 9:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


ANOTHER long-winded, fact-less article from SECOND!
Wow, you really like yarn-spinning, don't you SECOND?
But still, NO EVIDENCE.


******

When I scanned the article, one of the first things I questioned was .... HOW DOES THIS ARTICLE CLAIM IT GOT ITS INFO? After all, this is KGB stuff from three decades ago.

My second response is .... THEY PROBABLY HAD FILES ON EVERYONE, so who cares?


*****

I scanned the article to answer the first question, and nowhere does it indicate where it got this so-called information. In fact, it disavows documented sources, and is full of weasel-words ...
Quote:

It was around this time that Donald Trump appears to have attracted the attention of Soviet intelligence. How that happened, and where that relationship began, is an answer hidden somewhere in the KGB's secret archives. Assuming, that is, that the documents still exist.
So, they haven't accessed any records to support their claim about Trump?

The article is full of irrelevant details which are meant to give weight to its speculation about Trump. Wading thru the tons of crap about nothing in particular, this is what the article says about Trump:

Quote:

Trump's first visit to Soviet Moscow in 1987 looks, with hindsight, to be part of a pattern....

When did the KGB open a file on Donald Trump? We don’t know, but Eastern Bloc security service records

personnel records
Quote:

suggest this may have been as early as 1977
I have to say, that's quite a leap of imagination

Quote:

At this point it is unclear how the KGB regarded Trump ...
Or if they regarded him at all ...

Quote:

In Dubinina’s account she admits her father [Ambassador to Washington] was trying to hook Trump [for what?] ... Dubinin’s other daughter, Irina, said that her late father— he died in 2013—was on a mission as ambassador. This was, she said, to make contact with America’s business elite. For sure, Gorbachev’s Politburo was interested in understanding capitalism. But [let's ignore what the Ambassadors other daughter said, and claim that the] invitation to Trump to visit Moscow looks like a classic cultivation exercise


Quote:

Precisely what Putin did while working for the KGB’s First Directorate in Dresden is unknown.


Okay, I've had enough wading thru bullshit. Everything in this excerpt regarding Trump is a series of disclaimers and suppositions. Like I said: spinning a yarn.






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ANOTHER long-winded, fact-less article from SECOND!
Wow, you really like yarn-spinning, don't you SECOND?
But still, NO EVIDENCE.

You are so silly, Signym. Do you really need more "evidence" that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 10:57 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ANOTHER long-winded, fact-less article from SECOND!
Wow, you really like yarn-spinning, don't you SECOND?
But still, NO EVIDENCE.

You are so silly, Signym. Do you really need more "evidence" that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?




I would add SECOND that some of us here called this from day one.





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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But still, NO EVIDENCE.

Anyone who thinks someone on this site is going to have The Evidence is pretty foolish. Get real.
==============================

Well now. That is taking a few steps backward, for the "let's hope and pretend there is evidence" side.
Practically abandoning the premise.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Do you really need more "evidence" that "pride, arrogance, egoism, and vanity" are Trump's only characteristics?



LOL, what?

I didn't even know that was up for debate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 6:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
There has been plenty of evidence for us that he's ... been sucking Putin's d for years.

Another bogus claim from a chronic liar.

What a surprise.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Tuesday, November 21, 2017 8:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Well now. That is taking a few steps backward, for the "let's hope and pretend there is evidence" side. Practically abandoning the premise.- JSF

None us who believe Trump is guilty of being Trump, "hoped" or "pretended." There has been plenty of evidence for us that he's a piece of sh*t- GSTRING

Agreed

Quote:

and has been sucking Putin's d for years.- GSTRING
Focus, GSTRING, focus. This whole thread is open for any actual EVIDENCE of "collusion" with Russia, and so far ....

But, yanno, if you really think that you have evidence of Trump colluding with Russia ... or more specifically, colluding with Putin ... for "years" ... then by all means, bring it here.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 9:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Hate to disappoint you *jeanuses* but neither you nor I nor anyone here have the resources and legal power and authority of Mueller, so how would we know what he knows? For such a simple question you don't seem smart enough or honest enough to know the answer.- GSTRING


Well then, what you've done is "decide" AHEAD OF ANY EVIDENCE that Trump is "guilty" of colluding with Russia. Which is what I've been saying all along, so nice of you to finally admit it that you don't have even one foot in reality.

So, if you've "decided" (and I use that term advisedly) on various issues in absence of evidence, what made you "decide" in certain directions?

Is it possible that it's because you've been told, by the mainstream media, over and over again what you should think and how you should react, and you're just dumb enough to do what you're told?

You have no qualms that the mainstream media ... which you apparently trust implicitly ... might not be telling you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? That they might be foisting on you a torrent of bullshit, accusations, and pre-digested opinion, and that you're naive enough, lazy enough, and stupid enough to swallow it whole? That you're just as conditioned as any of Pavlovs's dogs?

Hmmm...?

NOPE?

Those thoughts never crossed your mind?

I'm sure when Mueller issues indictments, there will be more to talk about. EVEN THEN I don't trust you to be able to separate fact from opinion, so your contribution to the conversation will be less than zero.

******

So, given your Pavolvian response to all things "russia" and "trump", I'm sure it will twist your knickers to learn that Trump spent an hour on the phone with Putin.

OMG!!!!!

TRUMP TALKED TO PUTIN!!!

MAN THE NUKES!!!!

******

Something very strange is going on in the Mideast, and it's not about Russia. I'm sure you've read about the "night of the long knives" in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which Mohamed bin Salman (son of Salman, who is the current dotard king) ensured his ascension to the throne by arresting dozens and killing a few current and former Royal Family rivals and current or former ministers of various media, military, and security entities. MBS is shaking them down for most of their wealth, and has taken control of the military, the media, and large investment firms; some say he's managed to extort close to a trillion dollars out of his rivals.

At the same time, MBS seems determined to start YET ANOTHER war in the Mideast, THIS time in Lebanon, and THIS time with the help of the Israelis and (eventually) us Americans. Also, (possibly) THIS time without Saudi Arabia's famous proxy jihadists/ terrorists. It's like his plans against Iran in Syria (war crimes), Yemen (ongoing war crimes) and Qatar have spoiled, but he still wants another whack at it.

He wouldn't have done this without an OK from Trump. There's a lot of speculation about what this all means for the KSA and the USA.

One thing that everyone agrees on is that many of those arrested were

1) Big donors to Hillary Clinton (King Abdullah via Selwa Al-Hazzaa, and Alwaleed bin Talal via Muna Abu Soliman http://www.nationalreview.com/article/419178/clinton-foundation-took-m
oney-saudi-propagandists-joel-gehrke
) or

2) Deeply connected to the Bush administration (Prince Bandar "Bush" bin Sultan) or

3) Langley's (CIA's) favorite (Mohammed bin Nayef) http://www.atimes.com/article/inside-story-saudi-night-long-knives/

So whatever else is happening in Saudi Arabia, those Saudis with connections to our "deep state" have been cleanly (and in a few cases, permanently) swept out. I'm sure that this is acceptable to Trump.

*****

So there is a lot for Trump and Putin to talk about regarding the Mideast. My guess is that they've spent quite a bit of time talking about Syria, because Assad hustled off to Russia yesterday; Russia might have a deep interest in "settling" the Syrian issue by forcing a compromise - the Turks might have to compromise on Kurds, and Assad might have to compromise on the Kurds - in light of Saudi Arabia and Israel appearing to stir up yet MORE "regime change" trouble in Lebanon.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 12:36 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I see no evidens that the GRU social media soldierz arent getting overtime pay here.

Spredding BS everywhere helps mask the stink uv TrumPutin.

This frum 2016, but its worth a 2nd viewing:



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 1:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You keep saying there's NO EVIDENCE, and I keep asking "How do you know?"- GSTRING
I know because none of you have brought it here.

Despite the fact that you (you, THUGR, DULL, JO, KRAPO, and SECONDRATE) have been frantically scouring the media for anything that would bolster your claims about the very item that you've all been hounding about ... Trump's "collusion with Russia to win the election" .... Remember? Wasn't that what you all were stressing about not six short months ago? It was all you could post about! ... none of you have been able to find anything.

Quote:

... you keep dodging the question. - GSTRING
I've already said that we need for Mueller to come out with whatever evidence he has - I'm assuming he had evidence of SOMEthing, altho it's probably not about "collusion with Russia to win the election". When Mueller comes out with his indictments, then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, it's just rumor, accusation, and hysteria.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 1:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I see no evidens that the GRU social media soldierz arent getting overtime pay here.- JO
So basically "guilty until proven innocent"?

And you complain about Trump?

And, you want people to vote for you?

Why???


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 3:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You keep saying there's NO EVIDENCE, and I keep asking "How do you know?"- GSTRING

I know because none of you have brought it here.- SIGNY

Oiy. I mean this sincerely: I know you are not dumb enough to believe that any of us would have the resources to KNOW what Mueller knows, so please stop making yourself look foolish. It would be great to have an honest debate about Trump - your president - and the horrible things he's doing, wouldn't it? Even any of the good things he's doing if you can find any.- GSTRING

That's what I've been asking for since his election. But all I've been seeing is pointless WaPo, NYT, CNN, Rachel Maddow, Fareed etc screeds being posted here.

Quote:

More gross over statement on your part - you make yourself look desperate when you do this:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Despite the fact that you (you, THUGR, DULL, JO, KRAPO, and SECONDRATE) have been frantically scouring the media for anything that would bolster your claims about the very item that you've all been hounding about ... Trump's "collusion with Russia to win the election" .... Remember? Wasn't that what you all were stressing about not six short months ago? It was all you could post about! ... none of you have been able to find anything.



Not frantic - what would be the point? None of us can do anything to him if we found The Evidence anyway, so again, silly on your part.

There is thread after thread, post after post, purporting to have "evidence" when it has nothing of the sort; just allegations about some random bank "pinging" Trump tower; or some time when two people attended the same conference; or suppositions and conjectures like what SECOND posts; and replays of breathless rants by Rachel. 720 posts in "Evidens" alone. If I were to count up the number of times THUGR called me a "Russian troll" simply for asking for evidence, that would probably add another couple of hundred right there.

If there's "no evidence", why all of the posts flooding this forum?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: I've already said that we need for Mueller to come out with whatever evidence he has - I'm assuming he had evidence of SOMEthing, altho it's probably not about "collusion with Russia to win the election". When Mueller comes out with his indictments, then we'll have something to talk about. Until then, it's just rumor, accusation, and hysteria.- SIGNY

It feels to me like you have been the one being hysterical. I can't figure why you care so much when people say bad things about Trump, but there you are, post after post calling us names and pointing fingers and saying NO EVIDENCE!- GSTRING

All I'm trying to do point out the difference between accusation and evidence.

It's a distinction that every single one of you seems to have a great deal of difficulty grasping.
Finally, it seems, that despite the mountains of accusatory posts, you at least have figured out that there isn't any evidence among them.

So that's a step in the right direction.

I'm SURE something will come out later. OF COURSE we won't have all of the details that a select committee or grand jury will have.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 9:09 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I'm objecting to is the constant one-sided focus on Trump.

IF YOU HAD RAISED OBJECTIONS TO THE CLINTON'S UNETHICAL, IF NOT DOWNRIGHT ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR, I'D SAY THAT YOU REALLY WERE INTERESTED IN DRAINING THE SWAMP.

But the reality that that you're either partisan hacks (like SECOND) or deep-state trolls (like THUGR) and nobody would EVER mistake you for objective arbiters of anything.




Bullshit and subterfuge. I've said I hated Clinton dozens of times since her campaign began. My only words of kindness towards her was that she would be way better than Trump for this country. A fact we see reinforced daily.


T

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 10:04 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Focus, GSTRING, focus. This whole thread is open for any actual EVIDENCE of "collusion" with Russia, and so far ....


I'm new to this (these) threads, so bear with me, but has anyone mentioned the huge number of established meetings/connections that Trump staff have with various Kremlin-tied Russians? Here's a good summary:



And this timeline:

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/the-definitive-timeline-of-the-
trump-russia-connections-part-1-1100719171804


The "no evidence" mantra is a bit puzzling in the context of this very clear and very strange (and sometimes overtly shady) pattern of Russian dealings. These links and meetings provide a very plausible motive AND mechanism for collusion - and are not easily explained away innocently. So... these well-established links and meetings don't count as evidence, why?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, November 23, 2017 10:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Just as a reminder, Trump is in trouble for Obstructing Justice:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 11:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Bullshit and subterfuge. I've said I hated Clinton dozens of times since her campaign began. My only words of kindness towards her was that she would be way better than Trump for this country. A fact we see reinforced daily. - THUGR
Yes, you have posted this before, But when I asked you for LINKS to your previous statements, you didn't provide any.

Now, the only reason why I'm asking your to quote yourself and provide links is because I recall NO SUCH STATEMENTS from you. Not that I'm calling you a liar, but I sure would like to see some EVIDENCE that you ever posted any such statements.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:23 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Bullshit and subterfuge. I've said I hated Clinton dozens of times since her campaign began. My only words of kindness towards her was that she would be way better than Trump for this country. A fact we see reinforced daily. - THUGR
Yes, you have posted this before, But when I asked you for LINKS to your previous statements, you didn't provide any.

Now, the only reason why I'm asking your to quote yourself and provide links is because I recall NO SUCH STATEMENTS from you. Not that I'm calling you a liar, but I sure would like to see some EVIDENCE that you ever posted any such statements.





Sounds like you work for Trump to me. Can't even remember your own threads or how to find them. It's all there, and you know that.


T

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I remember you posting that once or twice, recently. A year after the election. Certainly not before.

You know, it would be no big deal for you to post-edit one of your pre-election posts - the same way you frequently post-edit your other posts - and link that.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 12:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Sounds like you work for Trump to me. Can't even remember your own threads or how to find them. It's all there, and you know that.- THUGR
Sounds to me like no such posts ever occurred.

Yanno, THUGR, people have often said that I "supported Trump" and that I was unaware of his deficits. In reply, I was able to quote and link the many times I said he was a loose cannon, that his foreign policy was stupid, that he was probably only somewhat less corrupt than Hillary (simply because he had no years in office over which to accumulate official acts of corruption), and that he was a narcissist. And that was BEFORE the election.

So, my guess is that you didn't post any such statements about Hillary because you would have been able to retrieve your posts.

And since you weren't able to retrieve them when asked (twice) I'll assume that any statement that you can dredge up will, in fact, have been post-edited.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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