REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Thursday, December 13, 2018 23:19
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Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:29 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/06/07/chuck-schumer-exact-oppo
site-what-democrats-need

Chuck Schumer Is The Exact Opposite of What Democrats Need
Schumer has been doing the exact same tired stunt for well over a decade, and it was exhausted even in 2005.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/07/despite-medicare-all-supp
ort-spreading-wildfire-pelosi-shrugs-says-dems-will

Despite Medicare for All Support 'Spreading Like Wildfire,' Pelosi Shrugs, Says Dems Will 'Evaluate'... If They Win
One critic offered this translation: "My pharmaceutical and health insurance donors hate the idea of Medicare for All, but just vote me back in and, honest, we'll 'look' at it."




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The American lifespan declined for the second year in a row. Suicide was a big factor, as well as opioids.

I don't know if you've considered how difficult it is to change the average lifespan when you have all 350 million individuals contributing their personal years to the final number.

With average lifespan dropping, it seems there's far more going on than mere petulant 'resentment'. But the whole article seems to describe this 'resentment' as coming from nothing, and meaning nothing, except the outsized pout of a spoiled brat.

That's its problem, and yours, SECOND. The dismissal of the legitimate misery of millions. But if democrats don't address it, or even talk about it, people will vote for the person who does. As they well should.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
You are so full of shit, 1kiki. Last week I saw how a Republican reduces his lifespan. Next door lives two Republicans, Larry and Levi. Levi, 40, is in jail today. He is doing his very best to shorten his life. Some of that involved stealing $40,000 from his father's bank account by transferring it using the stored passwords on Larry's computer. Lance, the other son and also a Republican, spent 10 years in prison for homicide -- driving drunk, crashed car, killing girl friend. He is getting fatter every single day. The way he is going I'd say he is following his brother in the search for a way to shorten his life.

I am pretty sure that government can't fix what is wrong with Republicans. They have to fix themselves or they will die younger than they should.

I can go around the block describing neighbors, who is a Democrat, who is a Republican, and the Republicans are definitely winning in the number of stories where they go about shortening their lives because there is something fundamentally wrong with the way their minds work and how they deal with the minor adversities of American life. Again, government can't fix what is wrong with these people who vote for Trump. Driving home the point: that the Trump voters can't adjust is killing them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:18 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The American lifespan declined for the second year in a row. Suicide was a big factor, as well as opioids.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
You are so full of shit, 1kiki.


Maybe you need to argue with the Census Bureau.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/21/health/us-life-expectancy-study/index.h
tml

Life expectancy in the United States has dropped again following last year's decline, which marked the first downturn in more than two decades. The death rates increased for unintentional injuries, Alzheimer's disease and suicide. Unintentional injuries include accidental drug overdoses, which were the official cause of 63,600 deaths last year.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Wednesday, June 13, 2018 11:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SECOND .... I'm still vastly confused by your statement, which seems to conflate "liking" with "winning". I'm sure you have an explanation that makes sense, since you seem to have derived lessons from your Vietnam experience which have stood up to decades-worth of experience.

So, at least one of us is confused. Help me out here and tell me what you meant. - SIGNY

It is the fundamental problem with language. Only telepathy will do what I need in as few words as I'm willing to use. Since Signym is not telepathic, the following probably won't clear up anything, either, but let me just say that a lot of soldiers (not all draftees, obviously, or the war would have been even crazier than it was) who went to Vietnam after 1970 were resentful that they were even there. They took out their resentment on the people who idealists like me were fighting for. They resented the South Vietnamese. That is a crazy way to fight: resenting the people you are there to defend. I, second, can't win all by myself when most of the people around me and most of those back in the USA don't think the war is worth fighting. Nuke all of Vietnam, North and South, declare victory and go home, was the best imaginable strategy for the resentful soldiers. - SECOND

I thank you for those words, and would appreciate more. Let's imagine that the military service, from draftee up thru the ranks to the highest generals AND the President, shared your idealism. What would "winning" have looked like, to you, and -perhaps more importantly - HOW would you have achieved that goal/ won the war?

Quote:

Now imagine jumping forward in time by 40 years. A majority of Americans today live as if they are crazy with resentment.- SECOND


Ok, Americans are crazy with resentment. Blacks resent whites, and whites resent blacks; blacks resent latinos and most Asian cultures look down on everyone. Women resent men, and men resent women. Religious resent secularists, and vice versa. Democrats resent Republicans (a resentment you participate in). Old versus young, straight versus everyone else, stay-at-home moms versus professional women; north versus south; coastal versus flyovers ...

WHY are we such a resentful culture? Does it have something to do with this ...?


Or this??


Maybe this?


And why it that American resentment has suddenly become a point of discussion when we have been splintering and dividing ourselves and resenting each other for decades?

And now, I have a sprinkler system to fix.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:43 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The American lifespan declined for the second year in a row. Suicide was a big factor, as well as opioids.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
You are so full of shit, 1kiki.


Maybe you need to argue with the Census Bureau.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/21/health/us-life-expectancy-study/index.h
tml

Life expectancy in the United States has dropped again following last year's decline, which marked the first downturn in more than two decades. The death rates increased for unintentional injuries, Alzheimer's disease and suicide. Unintentional injuries include accidental drug overdoses, which were the official cause of 63,600 deaths last year.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

Wasn't that the whole point of Electing the first ever self-admitted Drug Dealer as Preezy? Twice? Libtards wanted lots more people to die from drugs, helping with Population Control.
Rumor has it, drugs are a victimless crime, so not enough people are doing drugs because not enough are dying from drugs.
Obama's hard work was able to increase the death rate, so all his supporters got what they wanted.

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:55 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SECOND .... I'm still vastly confused by your statement, which seems to conflate "liking" with "winning". I'm sure you have an explanation that makes sense, since you seem to have derived lessons from your Vietnam experience which have stood up to decades-worth of experience.

So, at least one of us is confused. Help me out here and tell me what you meant. - SIGNY

It is the fundamental problem with language. Only telepathy will do what I need in as few words as I'm willing to use. Since Signym is not telepathic, the following probably won't clear up anything, either, but let me just say that a lot of soldiers (not all draftees, obviously, or the war would have been even crazier than it was) who went to Vietnam after 1970 were resentful that they were even there. They took out their resentment on the people who idealists like me were fighting for. They resented the South Vietnamese. That is a crazy way to fight: resenting the people you are there to defend. I, second, can't win all by myself when most of the people around me and most of those back in the USA don't think the war is worth fighting. Nuke all of Vietnam, North and South, declare victory and go home, was the best imaginable strategy for the resentful soldiers. - SECOND

I thank you for those words, and would appreciate more. Let's imagine that the military service, from draftee up thru the ranks to the highest generals AND the President, shared your idealism. What would "winning" have looked like, to you, and -perhaps more importantly - HOW would you have achieved that goal/ won the war?

Quote:

Now imagine jumping forward in time by 40 years. A majority of Americans today live as if they are crazy with resentment.- SECOND


Ok, Americans are crazy with resentment. Blacks resent whites, and whites resent blacks; blacks resent latinos and most Asian cultures look down on everyone. Women resent men, and men resent women. Religious resent secularists, and vice versa. Democrats resent Republicans (a resentment you participate in). Old versus young, straight versus everyone else, stay-at-home moms versus professional women; north versus south; coastal versus flyovers ...

WHY are we such a resentful culture? Does it have something to do with this ...?




Or this??


Maybe this?

Quote:


And why it that American resentment has suddenly become a point of discussion when we have been splintering and dividing ourselves and resenting each other for decades?

And now, I have a sprinkler system to fix.

Interesting graphs. That 2nd one shows how badly Clinton & Obama screwed the honest American Worker. Every American who wants to get screwed even more needs to elect another Democrat for Preezy.

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 7:31 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The American lifespan declined for the second year in a row. Suicide was a big factor, as well as opioids.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
You are so full of shit, 1kiki.


Maybe you need to argue with the Census Bureau.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/21/health/us-life-expectancy-study/index.h
tml

Life expectancy in the United States has dropped again following last year's decline, which marked the first downturn in more than two decades. The death rates increased for unintentional injuries, Alzheimer's disease and suicide. Unintentional injuries include accidental drug overdoses, which were the official cause of 63,600 deaths last year.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
The headline says it all: "Life Expectancy Drops For Whites, Rises For Blacks and Hispanics"
www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/articles/2016-04-20/life-expectanc
y-drops-for-whites-rises-for-blacks-and-hispanics


Who are the Whites? The Republicans. Who are the Blacks and Hispanics? The Democrats.

Not all whites are stupid enough to shorten their lives. The richest Republicans are having longer, richer lives. They voted for Trump while holding their noses because of his stench, mainly because he would give them a big tax cut, a cut that Hillary would never allow. College educated whites have longer lives, too, because they run their lives better than the uneducated. For an example of uneducated white who has shortened his life, even if he is not quite dead yet, think 6ixStringJack, who voted Trump for his uneducated reasons. He has many reasons, none of them worth a goddamn.

The Republicans with shorter lives are making uneducated, ignorant non-political decisions that shorten lives. Voting for Trump seemed smart to them, and he has certainly given them plenty of what they want, but none of it will lengthen their lives.

Remember that Black and Hispanic lives grow longer while Whites voting for Trump have shortened their lives. The researchers want to stay out of politics. They say “This report slams it home that this is really a mystery.” It isn't a mystery. If you voted for Trump, and weren't rich, you are fool. Fools make foolish decisions, not just in politics once every four years, but in all areas of life on a daily basis. And on a daily basis they die foolishly. Don't ever stop defending Trump, 1kiki. If you died young, you are helping to prove my point.
www.nytimes.com/2016/12/08/health/life-expectancy-us-declines.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:01 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Interesting graphs. That 2nd one shows how badly Clinton & Obama screwed the honest American Worker. Every American who wants to get screwed even more needs to elect another Democrat for Preezy.

You are foolishly blaming Presidents when you should be blaming the approximately 3 million people like me who actually set other citizen's salaries and decide who is hired and fired. I don't believe you will ever understand, since you have never been inside the real American hierarchy of business, the one that you have absolutely no vote in and zero control over. But Presidents do have a certain amount of actual control in limited areas of business. Taxes, for one, but Trump is doing an excellent job of letting the richest Americans decide how little they will pay. Good job, Trump! But since he is also inside the business hierarchy, lower taxes on the wealthy was to be expected. Trump has other responsibilities that he handles irresponsibly and GOP voters love it:

Trump wasn’t on the ballot or even stateside for Tuesday’s primary elections in Virginia and South Carolina. But he loomed over both states, just as he has in nearly every nominating contest this year, underscoring how the Republican Party has become the party of Trump and that its politicians cross him at their peril.

As Representative Mark Sanford of South Carolina found out the hard way, in his surprise primary defeat, having a conservative voting record is less important than demonstrating total loyalty to Mr. Trump, who now enjoys higher approval ratings in his own party than any modern president except George W. Bush following the attacks of Sept. 11. And in Virginia, a far-right candidate, Corey Stewart, won the Republican Senate nomination after waging an incendiary campaign and portraying himself as a disciple of Mr. Trump.

The president’s transformation of the G.O.P. — its policies, its tone, even the fate of its candidates — has never been so evident. A party that once championed free trade has now largely turned to protectionism under Mr. Trump. Sermons about inclusivity have been replaced with demagogic attacks on immigrants and black athletes. A trust-but-verify approach to foreign policy has given way to a seat-of-the-pants style in which rogue regimes like North Korea are elevated and democratic allies like Canada are belittled.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:17 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I wonder why we have a reply from "second" and then another from "SECOND" - they seem the same to me.

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I wonder why we have a reply from "second" and then another from "SECOND" - they seem the same to me.

It is actually second, all lower case, the same as the fundamental unit of time. If you want to learn about fundamentals, for example why American capitalism concentrates the wealth with people like me, you could read: "New economics research shows why Donald Trump’s corporate tax cut won’t boost paychecks"
https://qz.com/1304713

The corporate tax cuts enacted by president Donald Trump and the Republican party are supposed to lure investment back to the US, leading to an increase in wages for working Americans.

But workers’ wages have grown half as slowly in the first five months of 2018, with the tax law in force, compared to the first five months of 2017. And average worker wages were actually higher before the tax law was enacted.

Why haven’t predictions of rising wages come true? An ambitious new paper released by economists Thomas Tørsløv, Ludvig Wier and Gabriel Zucman argues that the tax bill contains a fundamental misunderstanding about global capitalism.

At its heart, the law reasons that in a world of mobile capital, the country with the lowest corporate taxes will attract the most business investment, creating the most high-paying jobs. But so far, capital expenditures for factories and whatever have not moved to low-tax places. So far, profit shifting seems to have swamped real capital mobility.

US companies reported $50 billion of profits in the Cayman Islands, which reported total economic production of just $3 billion that year. What the new wage data helps establish that this phenomenon of huge profits without real economic activity is systemic, across the same companies in a wide variety of tax havens.

Although I will never vote for Trump, I am pleased at all the money he has given me. As for the people who voted for Trump, too bad you don't understand what Trump is doing. But I don't expect you to click the link and increase your understanding of how Trump screwed you: https://qz.com/1304713

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, for some reason, your name (and everyone else's) shows up as all caps in the "attribution" line; at least for me.

I would still like an explanation of the following. Not meaning to pick a fight, but just very curious how you fit "liking" and "winning" into the same sentence about the same people. I'm hoping that you can provide an example of how you can "like" someone enough to "win" ... surely, you must have thought about what you would have done differently if you were in charge.

Quote:

It is the fundamental problem with language. Only telepathy will do what I need in as few words as I'm willing to use. Since Signym is not telepathic, the following probably won't clear up anything, either, but let me just say that a lot of soldiers (not all draftees, obviously, or the war would have been even crazier than it was) who went to Vietnam after 1970 were resentful that they were even there. They took out their resentment on the people who idealists like me were fighting for. They resented the South Vietnamese. That is a crazy way to fight: resenting the people you are there to defend. I, second, can't win all by myself when most of the people around me and most of those back in the USA don't think the war is worth fighting. Nuke all of Vietnam, North and South, declare victory and go home, was the best imaginable strategy for the resentful soldiers. - SECOND

I thank you for those words, and would appreciate more. Let's imagine that the military service, from draftee up thru the ranks to the highest generals AND the President, shared your idealism. What would "winning" have looked like, to you, and -perhaps more importantly - HOW would you have achieved that goal/ won the war? - SIGNY



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:24 AM

JJ


New York files suit against President Trump, alleging his charity engaged in 'illegal conduct'

The New York attorney general on Thursday filed suit against President Trump and his three eldest children alleging “persistently illegal conduct” at the president’s personal charity, saying Trump repeatedly misused the nonprofit — to pay off his businesses’ creditors, to decorate one of his golf clubs and to stage a multimillion dollar giveaway at his 2016 campaign events.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/presidential/new-york-files
-suit-against-president-trump-alleging-his-charity-engaged-in-illegal-conduct-20180614.html


T

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 1:47 PM

JJ


T





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Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, for some reason, your name (and everyone else's) shows up as all caps in the "attribution" line; at least for me.

I would still like an explanation of the following. Not meaning to pick a fight, but just very curious how you fit "liking" and "winning" into the same sentence about the same people. I'm hoping that you can provide an example of how you can "like" someone enough to "win" ... surely, you must have thought about what you would have done differently if you were in charge.

Quote:

It is the fundamental problem with language. Only telepathy will do what I need in as few words as I'm willing to use. Since Signym is not telepathic, the following probably won't clear up anything, either, but let me just say that a lot of soldiers (not all draftees, obviously, or the war would have been even crazier than it was) who went to Vietnam after 1970 were resentful that they were even there. They took out their resentment on the people who idealists like me were fighting for. They resented the South Vietnamese. That is a crazy way to fight: resenting the people you are there to defend. I, second, can't win all by myself when most of the people around me and most of those back in the USA don't think the war is worth fighting. Nuke all of Vietnam, North and South, declare victory and go home, was the best imaginable strategy for the resentful soldiers. - SECOND

I thank you for those words, and would appreciate more. Let's imagine that the military service, from draftee up thru the ranks to the highest generals AND the President, shared your idealism. What would "winning" have looked like, to you, and -perhaps more importantly - HOW would you have achieved that goal/ won the war? - SIGNY



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

I know many soldiers that think the Vietnam War could have been "won". Nothing ever changes their minds. So I stopped even attempting that, on Vietnam or anything else. If I don't like 'em, I treat them like they have moved to another planet beyond communication range. In business, where I can't do that, I use the carrot and the stick. People can do as they please, but I will either reward or fire them depending on what they do. No minds need to be changed by me. I only change my associations until I found some that are compatible, ones that don't cheat, steal, lie.

Not being a politician, I don't need to change a majority of Americans in my district, I just need to filter out the ones that are useless. Signym, for example, is useless, completely incompatible with me and would be fired in the first month as a time wasting moron who can't stop communicating.

My winning strategy for the Vietnam War would have been for Congress to disbelieve every word from Kissinger, Agnew, and Nixon (KAN for short) on Vietnam. But Congress was, back then and even until today, too trusting, too lazy, too deferential toward authority for disbelief in KAN to control 2/3rds of Congress. In an ideal world, Congress should have removed KAN, despite the unwise voters placing all power in KAN. Americans being who they are, and Congress deferring to the voters, that wouldn't happen. But America had the good fortune when Nixon still had a functioning conscious, perhaps because of his Quaker background. He removed himself out of shame at what he had done. Then the Vietnam War ended for the US. Given some time, the Vietnamese won when the South Vietnamese President, placed there by KAN, gave up the fight. Decades passed before the mess of that war was cleaned up by the Vietnamese.

Nowadays, we have a President without a functioning conscious, unlike Nixon. Shame doesn't work with Trump. But at least he is not bombing Vietnam. Trump saves his destructive energy for the tax code, healthcare, the environmental protection agency, and to attack Canada as a great enemy. Trump is mistaken about Canada. But will he change his mind? I wouldn't bother trying to convince him, no more than I would try changing Signym's mind about anything: www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/06/us-trade-policy-on-dairy-is-sim
ple-we-basically-allow-no-imports-at-all
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 14, 2018 5:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, at one point you said that we didn't "like" the Vietnamese enough to "win". Now, you say it COULDN'T have been "won"
Quote:

I know many soldiers that think the Vietnam War could have been "won". Nothing ever changes their minds.
You implied at one point that the war could have been conducted differently (i.e stop shooting water buffaloes) and follow it by saying
Quote:

My winning strategy for the Vietnam War would have been for Congress to disbelieve every word from Kissinger, Agnew, and Nixon (KAN for short) on Vietnam.
That's not a "strategy" of any sort. So what does that MEAN? Does it mean that we shouldn't have started military action at all? That we should have depended on more "carrot" (development aid) than "stick" (killing)?

What was your GOAL for S Vietnam, if any? A democratically-elected government? A small-business capitalist economy? Simply rooting out N Vietnamese influence? How would you have handled S Vietnamese who were sympathetic to communism? Kill them because they were ideologically suspect? Leave them alone because they were S Vietnamese? How would have treated S Vietnamese who were anti-American, without being pro-communist? Respect them because of their nationalism?

The reason why I'm drilling down on this is because YOU claim that "Americans" are the cause of our problems because of their "goals", then make the case that KAN had goals which they didn't even share with the American people, and that they (not average Americans) were mandating our actions in Vietnam.

All you seem to do is "react" to what you "hate". But don't you know what you want? Don't you have any idea how to get there?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 15, 2018 12:10 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
The headline says it all: "Life Expectancy Drops For Whites, Rises For Blacks and Hispanics" www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/articles/2016-04-20/life-expectanc
y-drops-for-whites-rises-for-blacks-and-hispanics

Oddly enough, when I go to your link, the article is from 2016. And the study the article is about (which is linked in the article) uses data from 2013-2014. "Changes in Life Expectancy by Race and Hispanic Origin in the United States, 2013–2014".

I think you need to reference the most recent data, rather than out of date information, if you want to look like anything other than a total irrelevancy.

And THEN, you go on to makes gross assumptions and illogical conclusions based on the bad data you misleadingly referenced. Very sloppy, lazy, and biased.





SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Friday, June 15, 2018 7:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
The headline says it all: "Life Expectancy Drops For Whites, Rises For Blacks and Hispanics" www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/articles/2016-04-20/life-expectanc
y-drops-for-whites-rises-for-blacks-and-hispanics

Oddly enough, when I go to your link, the article is from 2016. And the study the article is about (which is linked in the article) uses data from 2013-2014. "Changes in Life Expectancy by Race and Hispanic Origin in the United States, 2013–2014".

I think you need to reference the most recent data, rather than out of date information, if you want to look like anything other than a total irrelevancy.

And THEN, you go on to makes gross assumptions and illogical conclusions based on the bad data you misleadingly referenced. Very sloppy, lazy, and biased.





SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
So? 1kiki, you cannot in good faith knockdown 2016 data unless you, and by that I mean 1kiki, present actual data. Using the word "sloppy" does not make it sloppy. You have to bring something new to the here and now. You have to do it yourself. I will simplify it for you: the Americans who die younger and younger are the White Republican Americans that make bad decisions in their personal life. It is unsurprising that when they vote, their judgment of Trump isn't any better than their other judgments, say for example, overdose, overeat, drive drunk, under-exercise, etc. None of that will extend the lifespan of a GOP voter. And voting for Trump didn't fix anything his voters keep doing to shorten their own lives.

I see that Trump has been up to his old tricks of stealing other people's money, lying about it, then cheating on his taxes. And that was only yesterday:

www.vox.com/2018/6/14/17465038/trump-foundation-lawsuit-new-york-attor
ney-general

www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/the-donald-j-trump-foundation-explai
ned/ar-AAyEWpd?ocid=spartandhp


But Trump voters will have forgotten it all, just as they forget to not overeat, forget to exercise, forget to not drive drunk, etc.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 15, 2018 8:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yanno SECOND< you spend endless hours bitching and "blaming the victim".

But I have a hard time taking ANYthing you say seriously because you lack clarity of thought and purpose. Take your experience in Vietnam, which seems to have been significant. You react badly to events, but can't imagine any alternatives (What were your essential goals? What should have been done differently, in your opinion?)

One way to hone your understanding of the world is to create different models, and then beat them against reality. But the only "lesson" that YOU seem to have learned from Vietnam is to BITCH ENDLESSLY ABOUT AMERICANS. Yep, that's you! The endless-bitcher-and-white-victim blamer! (BTW, you're racist; did you know that? It seeps thru everything you post.)

The only OTHER lesson that you seem to have learned is that unearned wealth make you a superior being.

So, what is it that you have to say, again?

Oh, nothing? I thought so.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 15, 2018 8:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, at one point you said that we didn't "like" the Vietnamese enough to "win". Now, you say it COULDN'T have been "won"
Quote:

I know many soldiers that think the Vietnam War could have been "won". Nothing ever changes their minds.
You implied at one point that the war could have been conducted differently (i.e stop shooting water buffaloes) and follow it by saying
Quote:

My winning strategy for the Vietnam War would have been for Congress to disbelieve every word from Kissinger, Agnew, and Nixon (KAN for short) on Vietnam.
That's not a "strategy" of any sort. So what does that MEAN? Does it mean that we shouldn't have started military action at all? That we should have depended on more "carrot" (development aid) than "stick" (killing)?

What was your GOAL for S Vietnam, if any? A democratically-elected government? A small-business capitalist economy? Simply rooting out N Vietnamese influence? How would you have handled S Vietnamese who were sympathetic to communism? Kill them because they were ideologically suspect? Leave them alone because they were S Vietnamese? How would have treated S Vietnamese who were anti-American, without being pro-communist? Respect them because of their nationalism?

The reason why I'm drilling down on this is because YOU claim that "Americans" are the cause of our problems because of their "goals", then make the case that KAN had goals which they didn't even share with the American people, and that they (not average Americans) were mandating our actions in Vietnam.

All you seem to do is "react" to what you "hate". But don't you know what you want? Don't you have any idea how to get there?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

Nixon needed the Vietnam War to get elected, then reelected. Winning Vietnam was not his real agenda, although he talked as if it was. Winning was my agenda, being young, brave, and gullible. But once I got there I wasn't stupid enough to continue believing that would happen. The tactics and strategy used by the Army were incredibly stupid. Little did I know that the policy set by the White House was just as bad. And the policy change came with Nixon:

In October 1968, Nixon’s lead over his Democratic opponent, Vice President Hubert Humphrey, was dwindling, partly because Humphrey had proposed a halt to U.S. bombing of North Vietnam. Five days before the election, President Lyndon Johnson announced the halt, hoping to convene peace talks. One impediment, however, was South Vietnam’s reluctance to participate. Its recalcitrance reflected its hope that it would be better supported by a Nixon administration.

On July 3, 1968, a Nixon campaign aide, Dick Allen, sent a memo proposing a meeting with Nixon and Anna Chennault, a Chinese American active in Republican politics. She would bring to the meeting South Vietnam’s ambassador to Washington. The memo said the meeting must be “top secret.” Nixon wrote on the memo: “Should be but I don’t see how — with the S.S. [Secret Service].” On July 12, however, she and the ambassador did meet secretly in New York with Nixon who, she later said, designated her his “sole representative” to the Saigon government.

The National Security Agency was reading diplomatic cables sent from South Vietnam’s Washington embassy to Saigon, where the CIA had a listening device in the office of South Vietnam’s president. The FBI was wiretapping South Vietnam’s embassy and monitoring Chennault’s movements in Washington, including her visit to that embassy on Oct. 30.

On Nov. 2 at 8:34 p.m., a teleprinter at Johnson’s ranch delivered an FBI report on the embassy wiretap: Chennault had told South Vietnam’s ambassador “she had received a message from her boss (not further identified). . . . She said the message was that the ambassador is to ‘hold on, we are gonna win.’ ” The Logan Act of 1799 makes it a crime for a private U.S. citizen, which Nixon then was, to interfere with U.S. government diplomatic negotiations.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-nixons-long-shadow/2014/
08/06/fad8c00c-1ccb-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html


www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-viet
nam-treason


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 15, 2018 9:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno SECOND< you spend endless hours bitching and "blaming the victim".

But I have a hard time taking ANYthing you say seriously because you lack clarity of thought and purpose. Take your experience in Vietnam, which seems to have been significant. You react badly to events, but can't imagine any alternatives (What were your essential goals? What should have been done differently, in your opinion?)

One way to hone your understanding of the world is to create different models, and then beat them against reality. But the only "lesson" that YOU seem to have learned from Vietnam is to BITCH ENDLESSLY ABOUT AMERICANS. Yep, that's you! The endless-bitcher-and-white-victim blamer! (BTW, you're racist; did you know that? It seeps thru everything you post.)

The only OTHER lesson that you seem to have learned is that unearned wealth make you a superior being.

So, what is it that you have to say, again?

Oh, nothing? I thought so.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

The secret to my wealth is “The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Only_Investment_Guide_You%27ll_Ever_
Need


I purchased a paperback edition in 1980. I retired from my job, where I never was paid more than $66,226/year (that number is from Social Security) in 1996 at the age of 44. I repeat for the slow learners who voted for Trump: It is my secret to getting wealthy. The author, who is alive, well, and a Democrat, keeps updating the book. Anybody can buy it or get it for free from pirates. Most people won’t do anything. Too bad for them.
www.amazon.com/Only-Investment-Guide-Youll-Ever/dp/0544781937/
https://torrentz2.eu/searchA?f=The+only+investment+guide+you%27ll+ever
+need


The book is the operating instructions for capitalism. If you don’t read it, understand it, and actually do it, then very likely your life will be far poorer than it could be. Join me in the Top 1%. Or keep defending Trump in the futile hope that he will make your life better. It is your life and your choice.
www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-
percent-world.asp


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 15, 2018 9:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, the secret to your wealth is "save money and buy a stock index fund"? Your wealth has nothing to do with the gas or oil under your family ranch?

Uh huh.



"Saving money" is - for most people- beyond their capacity. I know people who are working two or three part-time jobs, and they still can't meet basic expenses. The "secret" to YOUR wealth seems to be ... have wealth handed to you, and then be a rentier.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, June 15, 2018 10:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, your wealth has nothing to do with the gas or oil under your family ranch?

Uh huh.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

I didn't inherit the land; I bought the land. I was following the natural gas well example of JC and Milton, the first two engineers I worked with, but I figured I could do 10 times better than they had done.

And buying Microsoft stock before Windows 3.1 arrived didn't hurt either. I was not lucky. I invested in what understood. And the obligatory dig at Republican voters: What would they invest in when they understand nothing, nothing at all? Graduating from the school of engineering at the University of Texas at Austin does have some advantages at recognizing good investments.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 15, 2018 12:44 PM

JJ


Funny how the chants were lock her up, and instead we see them getting locked up. Yep, funny.

T


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Saturday, June 16, 2018 6:13 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:
Funny how the chants were lock her up, and instead we see them getting locked up. Yep, funny.

There is some funny stuff going on inside Trump's head:

Few could contend with a straight face or a sound mind that Trump’s actions at the recent G-7 meeting and his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un have advanced U.S. security interests, as that term has been understood by presidents since the end of World War II.

Trump or his supporters might respond that he is rejecting the old concepts of national security. But if that’s so, let him spell out what new concepts would tout Kim Jong-un and the authoritarian leaders of Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the Philippines as America’s most trustworthy friends, while downgrading the democratic leaders of Britain, France, Germany, and Canada as dishonest swindlers.

It is appalling (there is no gentler word) for an American president to blast Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for simply (and mildly) speaking up in response to Trump’s threat of a trade war—and then, two days later, to laud Kim, the world’s most brutal and insular tyrant, as a man who loves his country and to say it’s an “honor” to be in his presence.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/after-quebec-and-singapore
-its-undeniable-that-trump-is-wrecking-the-world-order.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 6:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump, the only presidential candidate to refer to his penis size during a national debate, wants nothing more than to be seen as powerful and manly, and to align himself with those who project the characteristics he desires. And he’s gotten help—from us. If you’ve ever called Trump “tough” on immigration, note that he just called a dictator “tough” for murdering his citizens. (And “very smart” for staying in power.) That should be a wake-up call to journalists responsible for telling the story of this moment: Stop using the words he routinely chooses to describe himself. And think hard about whether you’re accidentally reinforcing the model of power he’s trying to sell.

There are, after all, other words: Arbitrary. Confused. Crabby. Ignorant.

What a president says usually matters a great deal. But what Trump says usually bears no relation to the truth (or to what his own policies end up being) and is not worth repeating.

Instead, repeat the valuable news that emanates from this White House: Usually, that will involve showing all the ways this president is wrong, weak, and reactive.

And if you’re stumped on finding the words to do that with, look to misogyny. I’m serious.

Just imagine how the past week would have been framed had Trump been a woman—weakness would be the constant subtext. “A shaken Trump tries to shift blame for broken families on nonexistent ‘Democrat bill.’ ” “At Singapore summit, Trump makes nervous joke over weight.” “Trump catty with Trudeau.”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/trump-wants-to-be-called-t
ough.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 7:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, your wealth has nothing to do with the gas or oil under your family ranch?

Uh huh.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

I didn't inherit the land; I bought the land. I was following the natural gas well example of JC and Milton, the first two engineers I worked with, but I figured I could do 10 times better than they had done.

And buying Microsoft stock before Windows 3.1 arrived didn't hurt either. I was not lucky. I invested in what understood. And the obligatory dig at Republican voters: What would they invest in when they understand nothing, nothing at all? Graduating from the school of engineering at the University of Texas at Austin does have some advantages at recognizing good investments.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




You invest in what understood?

You is speaking caveman now?

They teach you that at fancy school of engineering University?



srsly dood. Go back to playing fortnight from your mom's basement. Cut her a break though and take out the trash this week before she has to ask you for the 100th time, mkay?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 8:16 AM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:
Funny how the chants were lock her up, and instead we see them getting locked up. Yep, funny.

There is some funny stuff going on inside Trump's head:

Few could contend with a straight face or a sound mind that Trump’s actions at the recent G-7 meeting and his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un have advanced U.S. security interests, as that term has been understood by presidents since the end of World War II.

Trump or his supporters might respond that he is rejecting the old concepts of national security. But if that’s so, let him spell out what new concepts would tout Kim Jong-un and the authoritarian leaders of Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the Philippines as America’s most trustworthy friends, while downgrading the democratic leaders of Britain, France, Germany, and Canada as dishonest swindlers.

It is appalling (there is no gentler word) for an American president to blast Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for simply (and mildly) speaking up in response to Trump’s threat of a trade war—and then, two days later, to laud Kim, the world’s most brutal and insular tyrant, as a man who loves his country and to say it’s an “honor” to be in his presence.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/after-quebec-and-singapore
-its-undeniable-that-trump-is-wrecking-the-world-order.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

Trump says this DOJ report proves there was no collusion with the Russians. One of the charges against his former campaign manager, who by the way was running Trumps campaign for 144 days and not 49 days as Trumps is saying, is conspiracy. In other words, collusion.

T


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Saturday, June 16, 2018 8:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]











lol... whoops.

Seems like Trudeau and Wheadon went to the same school of Feminism?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 8:26 AM

JJ



Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:
Funny how the chants were lock her up, and instead we see them getting locked up. Yep, funny.

There is some funny stuff going on inside Trump's head:

Few could contend with a straight face or a sound mind that Trump’s actions at the recent G-7 meeting and his summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un have advanced U.S. security interests, as that term has been understood by presidents since the end of World War II.

Trump or his supporters might respond that he is rejecting the old concepts of national security. But if that’s so, let him spell out what new concepts would tout Kim Jong-un and the authoritarian leaders of Russia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the Philippines as America’s most trustworthy friends, while downgrading the democratic leaders of Britain, France, Germany, and Canada as dishonest swindlers.

It is appalling (there is no gentler word) for an American president to blast Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for simply (and mildly) speaking up in response to Trump’s threat of a trade war—and then, two days later, to laud Kim, the world’s most brutal and insular tyrant, as a man who loves his country and to say it’s an “honor” to be in his presence.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/after-quebec-and-singapore
-its-undeniable-that-trump-is-wrecking-the-world-order.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

Trump says this DOJ report proves there was no collusion with the Russians. One of the charges against his former campaign manager, who by the way was running Trumps campaign for 144 days and not 49 days as Trumps is saying, is conspiracy. In other words, collusion.

T





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Saturday, June 16, 2018 8:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:










lol... whoops.

Seems like Trudeau and Wheadon went to the same school of Feminism?

Do Right, Be Right. :)



I can do that too, T.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:06 AM

JJ


Trump says this DOJ report proves there was no collusion with the Russians. One of the charges against his former campaign manager, who by the way was running Trumps campaign for 144 days and not 49 days as Trumps is saying, is conspiracy. In other words, collusion.

tick tock

T


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Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:09 AM

JJ


T




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Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol... TIME magazine cover from August 22nd of 2016.

Just a few months before they named him "Person of the Year".

Dude sells a lot of magazines.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol... TIME magazine cover from August 22nd of 2016.

Just a few months before they named him "Person of the Year".

Dude sells a lot of magazines.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

TIME made Hitler and Trump the Man of the Year: "Hitler became in 1938 the greatest threatening force that the democratic, freedom-loving world faces today" (1/2/39). "For empowering a hidden electorate by mainstreaming its furies and live-streaming its fears, Donald Trump is TIME’s 2016 Person of the Year."

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2019712
_2019694_2019588,00.html


http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2016-donald-trump/


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:59 AM

JJ




T

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I didn't inherit the land; I bought the land. I was following the natural gas well example of JC and Milton, the first two engineers I worked with, but I figured I could do 10 times better than they had done.
So basically, you believe in rentier capitalism.

While you decry the evils of the elite, you promote their practices. An economy doesn't HAVE to be a zerosum game: because growth is always possible. But "ownership" IS zerosum game, because there are only so many things that can be owned, and what one person owns another can't. To put it another way: Property is theft.

Like I said: You lack clarity of thought and purpose. You claim one set of values but practice and promote another. All of your claims to moral superiority are just so much wind.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 12:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


HEY LIAR!! STUPID! YEAH YOU! SECONAL!
Changes in Life Expectancy by Race and Hispanic Origin in the United States, 2013-2014.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db244.pdf




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 12:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"What a president says usually matters a great deal. But what Trump says usually bears no relation to the truth (or to what his own policies end up being) and is not worth repeating."

Jeeze. I said that MONTHS ago on my way to making fun of all of you for hyperventilating into a coma at every tweet.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 12:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, btw SECONAL. Microsoft's success had far less to do with the goodness of its product than it did with the illegality of its business practices. And those illegal business practices - are THOSE what you were banking on?




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 1:39 PM

JJ


Damn SECOND, looks like you pissed of our local commies. Good job buddy.

T


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Saturday, June 16, 2018 4:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:
Trump says this DOJ report proves there was no collusion with the Russians. One of the charges against his former campaign manager, who by the way was running Trumps campaign for 144 days and not 49 days as Trumps is saying, is conspiracy. In other words, collusion.
Who are you talking about? Conspiracy (not the same as collusion) with whom?




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 5:16 PM

JJ


What life is like for Paul Manafort in jail

Inmate number 45343 will wear a jail-issued jumpsuit for hearings

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/16/politics/paul-manafort-virginia-jail-li
fe/index.html



T

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Saturday, June 16, 2018 9:42 PM

JJ


T





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Saturday, June 16, 2018 10:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But Manafort is not charged with colluding with Russia to throw the election. In fact, none of the charges relate to Russia, or the election, either separately or together ... at all.


https://www.justice.gov/sco


U.S. v. Paul J. Manafort, Jr. and Konstantin Kilimnik (1:17-cr-201, District of Columbia)

A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned a third superseding indictment on June 8, 2018, against Paul J. Manafort, Jr., of Alexandria, Va., and Konstantin Kilimnik, of Moscow, Russia. Manafort is charged with conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, and false statements. Manafort and Kilimnik are charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice and obstruction of justice.


U.S. v. Paul J. Manafort, Jr., and Richard W. Gates III (1:18-cr-83, Eastern District of Virginia)

Paul J. Manafort, Jr., of Alexandria, Va., and Richard W. Gates III, of Richmond, Va., were indicted by a federal grand jury on Feb. 22, 2018, in the Eastern District of Virginia. The indictment contains 32 counts: 16 counts related to false individual income tax returns, seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts, five counts of bank fraud conspiracy, and four counts of bank fraud. On March 1, 2018, the court granted a motion to dismiss without prejudice the charges against Richard Gates, following his guilty plea in a related case in the District of Columbia (1:17-cr-201).






SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Sunday, June 17, 2018 7:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yes, I noticed> There is THUGR, hopping up and down about "collusion" and yet nowhere is there any mention of "RUSSIA!!"

They guy is an idiot, which is typical of trolls since they rarely (if ever, in THUGR's case) have anything coherent to post.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, June 17, 2018 7:16 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But Manafort is not charged with colluding with Russia to throw the election. In fact, none of the charges relate to Russia, or the election, either separately or together ... at all.


https://www.justice.gov/sco


U.S. v. Paul J. Manafort, Jr. and Konstantin Kilimnik (1:17-cr-201, District of Columbia)

A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned a third superseding indictment on June 8, 2018, against Paul J. Manafort, Jr., of Alexandria, Va., and Konstantin Kilimnik, of Moscow, Russia. Manafort is charged with conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, and false statements. Manafort and Kilimnik are charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice and obstruction of justice.


U.S. v. Paul J. Manafort, Jr., and Richard W. Gates III (1:18-cr-83, Eastern District of Virginia)

Paul J. Manafort, Jr., of Alexandria, Va., and Richard W. Gates III, of Richmond, Va., were indicted by a federal grand jury on Feb. 22, 2018, in the Eastern District of Virginia. The indictment contains 32 counts: 16 counts related to false individual income tax returns, seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts, five counts of bank fraud conspiracy, and four counts of bank fraud. On March 1, 2018, the court granted a motion to dismiss without prejudice the charges against Richard Gates, following his guilty plea in a related case in the District of Columbia (1:17-cr-201).




Wow - that's a great read. What stands out to me is Manafort's and Gates level of corruption. There were no goof ups here, they were out and out fraudsters. You make a good point that there is no "willfully acted to throw the 2016 election in favor of Donnie Asshat." At least not yet and not explicitly. Some of those money indictments might be connected to manipulation - we don't know what the payments were for. There were some early signs of collusion when the Rep platform was changed in favor of Russia during the campaign. I wouldn't be too sure just yet though - either way.

Cold dose of Reality: the Justice dept brought these charges, and they don't like losing. Dear Paul: Flip or Flop.

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Monday, June 18, 2018 1:04 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"What a president says usually matters a great deal. But what Trump says usually bears no relation to the truth (or to what his own policies end up being) and is not worth repeating."

Jeeze. I said that MONTHS ago on my way to making fun of all of you for hyperventilating into a coma at every tweet.

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

Hard to expect MSM to understand this. Before Trump they developed an 8 year addiction to the exact same thing, except worse. You expect them to go Cold Turkey?

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Monday, June 18, 2018 8:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


What's disgusting to me is the terms with which the vocal Left today talk about the President, every single day. Especially since most of the examples they use of why he is all these things is pure hypocrisy when the lens is turned the other way.

I was no big fan of Obama for sure, but rather than post about what a piece of shit he was, obsessively, I took a long vacation from political discourse.

It's summer time, knuckleheads. At least go work on your tan if you're too lazy to do anything actually productive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


To stop endless war, raise taxes. Until the public has to pay extra for war, it won’t demand peace.

The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have cost a combined $2 trillion, or by some estimates of future medical costs for veterans more than $5 trillion. The most crucial difference between these wars and those of the past is how they have been financed. Contemporary wars are all put on the nation’s credit card, and that eliminates a critical accountability link between the populace and the conduct of war.

The economist Adam Smith recognized how war taxes curbed the public’s appetite for war hundreds of years ago. Observing the variation in how European governments paid for the wars of the 1600s and 1700s — debt or taxes — he wrote: “Every new tax is immediately felt more or less by the people. It occasions always some murmur, and meets with some opposition.” Given that opposition, Smith recognized that leaders intent on war would be tempted to shy away from taxes and instead rely on borrowing.

President Woodrow Wilson, at the outset of World War I: “Borrowing money is short-sighted finance … we should pay as we go. The industry of this generation should pay the bills of this generation.” In short, war taxes were viewed as responsible, accountable, and equitable.

Waiting until after the war to raise taxes is to ask for trouble. After the Revolutionary War, the first secretary of the Treasury, Alexander Hamilton, introduced new taxes to pay down the national debt but learned that postwar taxes are politically problematic because the public is asked to foot the bill after the sense of urgency has passed. Hamilton introduced a “whiskey tax” that immediately inspired rebellion from disgruntled farmers who distilled the beverage.

Without taxes specifically for war, the country is left with mounting debt — and left, too, with wars without accountability. If the public fails to experience the “inconvenience” of taxes, paraphrasing Adam Smith, there is no incentive for voters to push for a course correction.

When no citizen feels a financial pinch during wartime, open-ended wars like those in Afghanistan and Iraq are likely to become the norm, not the exception.

The U.S. Senate passed a $716 billion defense policy bill on Monday, backing President Donald Trump's call for a bigger, stronger military. It is all borrowed money.

www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/6/18/17474368/war-taxes-iraq-afghanistan
-history-accountability-democracy


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:12 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What's disgusting to me is the terms with which the vocal Left today talk about the President, every single day. Especially since most of the examples they use of why he is all these things is pure hypocrisy when the lens is turned the other way.

I was no big fan of Obama for sure, but rather than post about what a piece of shit he was, obsessively, I took a long vacation from political discourse.

It's summer time, knuckleheads. At least go work on your tan if you're too lazy to do anything actually productive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The U.S. government is, as a matter of policy, literally ripping children from the arms of their parents and putting them in fenced enclosures (which officials insist aren’t cages, oh no). The U.S. president is demanding that law enforcement stop investigating his associates and go after his political enemies instead. He has been insulting democratic allies while praising murderous dictators. And a global trade war seems increasingly likely.

What do these stories have in common? Obviously they’re all tied to the character of the man occupying the White House. But there’s also a larger context, and it’s not just about Donald Trump. What we’re witnessing is a systematic rejection of longstanding American values — the values that actually made America great.

. . . while you might be tempted to view international trade deals, which Trump says have turned us into a “piggy bank that everyone else is robbing,” as a completely separate story, they are anything but. Trade agreements were meant to (and did) make America richer, but they were also, from the beginning, about more than dollars and cents.

In fact, the modern world trading system was largely the brainchild not of economists or business interests, but of Cordell Hull, F.D.R.’s long-serving secretary of state, who believed that “prosperous trade among nations” was an essential element in building an “enduring peace.” So you want to think of the postwar creation of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade as part of the same strategy that more or less simultaneously gave rise to the Marshall Plan and the creation of NATO.

All the things happening now are of a piece. Committing atrocities at the border, attacking the domestic rule of law, insulting democratic leaders while praising thugs, and breaking up trade agreements are all about ending American exceptionalism, turning our back on the ideals that made us different from other powerful nations.

And rejecting our ideals won’t make us stronger; it will make us weaker. We were the leader of the free world, a moral as well as financial and military force. But we’re throwing all that away.

What’s more, it won’t even serve our self-interest. America isn’t nearly as dominant a power as it was 70 years ago; Trump is delusional if he thinks that other countries will back down in the face of his threats. And if we are heading for a full-blown trade war, which seems increasingly likely, both he and those who voted for him will be shocked at how it goes: Some industries will gain, but millions of workers will be displaced.

So Trump isn’t making America great again; he’s trashing the things that made us great, turning us into just another bully — one whose bullying will be far less effective than he imagines.

www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/opinion/immigration-trump-children-american
-empire.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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