REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:55
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Friday, May 31, 2019 9:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump’s Latest Brainstorm Will Fail. And No, He Won’t Admit It Was Always Doomed to Fail

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump tweeted:
On June 10th, the United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into our Country from Mexico, until such time as illegal migrants coming through Mexico, and into our Country, STOP. The Tariff will gradually increase until the Illegal Immigration problem is remedied, at which time the Tariffs will be removed. Details from the White House to follow.
4:30 PM - 30 May 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1134240657621438464

The new tariff plan is pretty simple. www.vox.com/2019/5/30/18646618/tariff-mexico-asylum-trump-usmca

Starting on June 10, all goods shipped from Mexico to the United States will face an extra 5 percent tax — all of which will be paid by American consumers in the form of higher prices. Altogether, Americans import nearly $400 billion from Mexico this year, so the tariff will amount to about $20 billion, or $200 per family. If Americans buy less from Mexico, which is what Trump wants in order to motivate Mexico to do the work of Trump's Border Patrol, then the cost will be less than $20 billion.

On July 1, that tax goes up to 10 percent. That is $40 billion paid by Americans per year if Trump raises the tax no higher.

On August 1, it goes up to 15 percent. $60 billion paid by Americans.

On September 1, it goes up to 20 percent. $80 billion paid by Americans.

And on October 1, it goes up to 25 percent. $100 billion paid by Americans. Per year.

White House Chief of Staff Mulvaney was, however, at pains to say that he is not eager to see 25 percent tariffs imposed on Mexican imports.

“We sincerely hope it does not come to that,” he said. “We actually have some level of confidence that the Mexican government will be able to help us . . .” because the Border Patrol is helpless. On the other hand, I’m confident that Mexicans are not paying the $100 billion per year. It will be paid by Americans. So Mexico won’t help Trump out, but illegal migration changes with the seasons. Spring is normally the high point for border-crossings and summer a low point. Whether or not Mexico changes anything, in other words, numbers will fall in July. Trump will brag in July about his tariff policy finally working because he doesn’t understand how migration changes with the seasons.

Mulvaney would not lay out specific success criteria that he wants to see Mexico meet. Instead, he said simply that “we’re going to handle this on an ad hoc basis. We are going to judge success here by the number of people crossing the border. And that number of people needs to start coming down immediately in a significant and substantial way.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 31, 2019 9:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yeah. I don't know what he's doing.

Let's stop pussyfooting around and call invaders invaders. No tariffs.

If somebody illegally crosses the border, they will be treated as hostile invaders and and anybody crossing the border after July 1st will be considered an act of war.


"Help".

Please.

We don't need Mexico's help.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, May 31, 2019 10:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah. I don't know what he's doing.

Let's stop pussyfooting around and call invaders invaders. No tariffs.

If somebody illegally crosses the border, they will be treated as hostile invaders and and anybody crossing the border after July 1st will be considered an act of war.


"Help".

Please.

We don't need Mexico's help.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The next logical step for Trump is to escalate the border war to machine-guns and land mines, but he'd lose some votes in 2020. Same thing if he opens concentration camps, complete with cremation furnaces, for illegal migrants. It is not too farfetched for Trump:
www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/japanese-american-relocation

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 5, 2019 12:44 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The modern Fed’s independence is an outgrowth of the wild inflation of the 1970s spurred by Richard Nixon’s meddling.

Nixon appointed Arthur Burns to run the Fed during his first term and then sought to control Fed policy through both overt and sleazy means. Nixon’s basic goal was to keep the economy hot through his 1972 reelection campaign, even if that meant running some risk of inflation. Inflation, of course, became a major problem in the mid-1970s. As inflation came back under control in the early 1980s, the conventional wisdom became that central bank independence was key to avoiding it.

There’s a theory that an incumbent president will always want to err in the direction of a little less unemployment now even if it means a little more inflation. And while on any given day that may be a reasonable trade-off, over the long run, it inevitably means a lot of inflation. And, as the theory goes, in the end, this won’t even get you sustainable low unemployment — just the dreaded “stagflation” of the late 1970s.

During the 1980s and ’90s, this evolved into a norm of Fed independence that had grown so strong that Obama administration economic policy officials would routinely decline to comment at all on monetary policy, whether on or off the record.

Still, at the end of the day, the Fed chair and the other members of the board are presidential appointees. Trump wants a Fed that will do what he wants. Modern central banking, meanwhile, is built on a foundation of independence from the day-to-day political needs of elected officials. Trump is not exactly a huge respecter of norms or a big believer in independence. That tradition has held up in the Trump years, but arguably more due to Trump’s sloppiness than to anything else.

More at "Judy Shelton’s potential nomination to a Federal Reserve Board seat"
www.vox.com/2019/6/5/18652025/judy-shelton-federal-reserve
The former “sound money” advocate and gold bug now suddenly backs Trump’s push for lower interest rates.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, June 9, 2019 8:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Letters sent from prison by the former Irish mob boss detailed his love for President Donald Trump and annoyance at the Mueller probe.

James "Whitey" Bulger wrote on a number of topics ranging from the first lady to the news media to Trump's foreign policy efforts.

“History may show Trump was the man of the hour,” Bulger wrote. “Feel China respects him and hesitant to try to bully him.”

Bulger also talked about Mueller, who led the FBI at a time when rogue agents had protected mob bosses like Bulger.

"Trump is experiencing what Mueller and company can orchestrate," Bulger said last September. "[Mueller] should observe biblical saying - 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'"

The former mob boss said he enjoys Trump's war against the media and that the President has his vote in the next election.

More at Fox News www.foxnews.com/us/whitey-bulger-praised-trump-prison-letters

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 10, 2019 6:14 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


America’s Political Mood Is Now the ‘Most Liberal Ever Recorded’

The American public is in the mood for “big government.” According to the distinguished political scientist James Stimson’s “Public Policy Mood estimate” — a widely respected tool for measuring shifts in ideological opinion across time — the U.S. electorate is more sympathetic to left-wing economic policy today than at anytime in the past 68 years (which is as far back as Stimson’s data goes).

Economists who favor increasing worker power, promoting full employment, stimulating demand, and having the public sector play a more active role in channeling investment now have a lot more empirical ammunition at their disposal than they did a decade ago — while those who champion fiscal austerity, a hawkish posture on inflation, and supply-side tax cuts as a panacea for increasing productive investment have far fewer arrows in their quiver.

And it shows. The Democratic Party’s leading economic thinkers have ceased worrying about deficits and grown far friendlier to organized labor and comfortable with sweeping state interventions in the economy to mitigate inequality and facilitate socially beneficial investment. And while the Republican Party’s finest hacks have carried on supplying the same rationalizations for plutocracy they always have, other GOP policy wonks (like those working in Rubio’s office) and center-right think tanks (like the Niskanen Center) have been gravitating away from supply-side dogma and toward the formerly “liberal” terrain of industrial policy.

More at http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/americas-political-mood-is-now-
most-liberal-ever-recorded.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 10, 2019 7:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
America’s Political Mood Is Now the ‘Most Liberal Ever Recorded’

The American public is in the mood for “big government.” According to the distinguished political scientist James Stimson’s “Public Policy Mood estimate” — a widely respected tool for measuring shifts in ideological opinion across time — the U.S. electorate is more sympathetic to left-wing economic policy today than at anytime in the past 68 years (which is as far back as Stimson’s data goes).

Economists who favor increasing worker power, promoting full employment, stimulating demand, and having the public sector play a more active role in channeling investment now have a lot more empirical ammunition at their disposal than they did a decade ago — while those who champion fiscal austerity, a hawkish posture on inflation, and supply-side tax cuts as a panacea for increasing productive investment have far fewer arrows in their quiver.

And it shows. The Democratic Party’s leading economic thinkers have ceased worrying about deficits and grown far friendlier to organized labor and comfortable with sweeping state interventions in the economy to mitigate inequality and facilitate socially beneficial investment. And while the Republican Party’s finest hacks have carried on supplying the same rationalizations for plutocracy they always have, other GOP policy wonks (like those working in Rubio’s office) and center-right think tanks (like the Niskanen Center) have been gravitating away from supply-side dogma and toward the formerly “liberal” terrain of industrial policy.

More at http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/americas-political-mood-is-now-
most-liberal-ever-recorded.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



The title of that article is quite misleading.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 10, 2019 7:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

The title of that article is quite misleading.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

What qualifies as the “liberal” or “conservative” position on a given issue evolves over time. This is most conspicuously apparent on social and cultural policy, where Barack Obama’s “liberal” 2008 position on gay marriage would be more “conservative” than some congressional Republicans in 2019. But Stimson’s "liberal" index confines itself to the role of government in the economy and only the economy.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/americas-political-mood-is-now-
most-liberal-ever-recorded.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 10, 2019 9:29 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

The title of that article is quite misleading.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

What qualifies as the “liberal” or “conservative” position on a given issue evolves over time. This is most conspicuously apparent on social and cultural policy, where Barack Obama’s “liberal” 2008 position on gay marriage would be more “conservative” than some congressional Republicans in 2019. But Stimson’s "liberal" index confines itself to the role of government in the economy and only the economy.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/americas-political-mood-is-now-
most-liberal-ever-recorded.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



A more appropriate title would be "According to Stimson's Liberal Index, which confines itself to the role of government in the economy and only the economy, America’s Political Mood Is Now the ‘Most Liberal Ever Recorded’"

I would agree with that statement. But that's not what the article title says at all.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Economic policy divides the GOP and unites Democrats
www.vox.com/2019/6/11/18659986/voter-study-group-democrats-economics

The study, released Tuesday, gauged support for different progressive economic policy ideas and then compared the views of low-income voters (with less than $40,000 per year in household income) to more comfortable ones (with more than $80,000 per year in household income). For Democrats, the more affluent voters were generally more left-wing, but the difference is small.

For Republicans, by contrast, there’s a huge fall-off in support for progressive economic policy ideas as you go up the income ladder.

Alignment with cultural conservatism (but not economic conservatism) is near universal among Republicans, and it keeps the party together even as its members have a lot of disagreements about specific economic policy issues.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Economic policy divides the GOP and unites Democrats
www.vox.com/2019/6/11/18659986/voter-study-group-democrats-economics

The study, released Tuesday, gauged support for different progressive economic policy ideas and then compared the views of low-income voters (with less than $40,000 per year in household income) to more comfortable ones (with more than $80,000 per year in household income). For Democrats, the more affluent voters were generally more left-wing, but the difference is small.

For Republicans, by contrast, there’s a huge fall-off in support for progressive economic policy ideas as you go up the income ladder.

Alignment with cultural conservatism (but not economic conservatism) is near universal among Republicans, and it keeps the party together even as its members have a lot of disagreements about specific economic policy issues.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



If the underlined is true, that may be enough going forward for them.

Democrats can't agree on anything under the sun, and now that they've boldly claimed that their the party of intersectionality and identitarianism they never will.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 5:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Pete Buttigieg is the first Democratic presidential candidate to actually articulate foreign policy proposals beyond general themes and ideas. Specifically, he said he would:

1) “Repeal and replace” the 2001 congressional authorization that the US military still uses to this day to fight terrorism and engage in foreign wars around the world

2) Recommit the US to the Iran nuclear deal

3) Withhold some US taxpayer money from Israel if it annexes parts of the West Bank

4) Rejoin the Paris climate accord

5) Increase investment in renewable technologies to reverse environmental degradation. Buttigieg’s most specific proposal was to quadruple federal government funding for research and development on renewable energy technology, to at least $25 billion. That’s likely to anger the fossil-fuel industry but delight those that work in solar, wind, and other growing energy sectors.

More details about all 5 at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/11/18661329/pete-buttigieg-fore
ign-policy-speech-indiana-university


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 6:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The thinking typically goes that boomers have put undue pressure on the Social Security system because of the size of their generation.

About 10,000 people turn 65 every day. Many of those individuals are claiming Social Security retirement benefits, which has created the perception that they are draining the system.

However, the Center for Retirement Research found the boomer cohort born between 1946 and 1964 will actually have paid more into the system than they will receive in benefits.

There is a group of retirees, however, who did receive more money than they contributed: people born before 1946 who predominately vote Republican. That’s because they generally worked for fewer years before collecting benefits.

More about how elderly Republicans didn't pay their fair share and got a free ride on Social Security at www.cnbc.com/2019/06/10/its-not-baby-boomers-who-have-taken-the-most-f
rom-social-security.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You must be really gassy lately.




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:11 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Noam Chomsky, June 04, 2019:

Both parties shifted to the right during the neoliberal years: the mainstream Democrats became something like the former moderate Republicans, and the Republicans drifted virtually off the spectrum. There’s merit, I think, in the observation by Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein that increasingly since the Newt Gingrich years — and strikingly in Mitch McConnell’s Senate — the Republican Party has become a “radical insurgency” that is largely abandoning normal parliamentary politics. That shift — which predates Donald Trump — has created a substantial gap between the two parties. In the media it’s often called “polarization,” but that’s hardly an accurate description.

Both in the United States and Europe, neoliberal/austerity programs have sharply concentrated wealth while also stagnating wages for the majority, undermining benefits, eroding functioning democracy, and encouraging what former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan hailed as “growing worker insecurity.” These socioeconomic policies, quite naturally, have engendered anger, resentment, and bitterness — which are often exploited by demagogues. As centrist political institutions have declined, sometimes virtually disappearing, both political parties have been affected. The Republican establishment used to be able to crush extremist candidates who rose from the voting base in primaries, but not in 2016.

What [Bernie] Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mean by “socialism” seems to be something similar to New Deal social democracy. Sanders’s platform, for example, wouldn’t have greatly surprised Dwight Eisenhower, who argued strongly that anyone who challenged New Deal programs didn’t belong in the U.S. political system — an indication of how far to the right politics has drifted [since Eisenhower.]

More at https://bostonreview.net/politics/noam-chomsky-scott-casleton-choosing
-hope


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Noam Chomsky, June 04, 2019:

Both parties shifted to the right during the neoliberal years: the mainstream Democrats became something like the former moderate Republicans, and the Republicans drifted virtually off the spectrum. There’s merit, I think, in the observation by Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein that increasingly since the Newt Gingrich years — and strikingly in Mitch McConnell’s Senate — the Republican Party has become a “radical insurgency” that is largely abandoning normal parliamentary politics. That shift — which predates Donald Trump — has created a substantial gap between the two parties. In the media it’s often called “polarization,” but that’s hardly an accurate description.

Both in the United States and Europe, neoliberal/austerity programs have sharply concentrated wealth while also stagnating wages for the majority, undermining benefits, eroding functioning democracy, and encouraging what former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan hailed as “growing worker insecurity.” These socioeconomic policies, quite naturally, have engendered anger, resentment, and bitterness — which are often exploited by demagogues. As centrist political institutions have declined, sometimes virtually disappearing, both political parties have been affected. The Republican establishment used to be able to crush extremist candidates who rose from the voting base in primaries, but not in 2016.

What [Bernie] Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mean by “socialism” seems to be something similar to New Deal social democracy. Sanders’s platform, for example, wouldn’t have greatly surprised Dwight Eisenhower, who argued strongly that anyone who challenged New Deal programs didn’t belong in the U.S. political system — an indication of how far to the right politics has drifted [since Eisenhower.]

More at https://bostonreview.net/politics/noam-chomsky-scott-casleton-choosing
-hope


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Well...

It seems as though somebody is finally agreeing with me that the Democrats of 2019 are a goddamned carbon copy of the GWB administration... finally. Pro censorship, pro surveillance and anti-Constitution as well.

Glad to have you on board, Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:20 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Well...

It seems as though somebody is finally agreeing with me that the Democrats of 2019 are a goddamned carbon copy of the GWB administration... finally. Pro censorship, pro surveillance and anti-Constitution as well.

Glad to have you on board, Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I am not onboard with you, 6ix. Today's Democratic politicians are carbon copies of Eisenhower Republicans from the 1950's. They are nothing like GWB. And Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are old-fashion FDR New Dealers, not radical at all, despite silly fools and Republican voters shitting themselves over the existence of New Dealers.

https://bostonreview.net/politics/noam-chomsky-scott-casleton-choosing
-hope


6ix, I have a much longer memory than you do, very clear and detailed, but how actual Republican voters I know have evolved, no, make that devolved, over my lifetime. And today's Republican politicians? Republican President Eisenhower would have recognized Trump as a Mussolini -- a loudmouth, a liar, and an incompetent -- while today's Republican voters think Trump is somebody special deserving of reelection because Democratic candidates will never be good enough for today's Republicans.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, June 12, 2019 9:19 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You don't have a better memory.

You're just an old hippie piece of trash is all.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 17, 2019 6:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump tweets Vote for me — or you’ll never see your precious bull market alive again.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
The Trump Economy is setting records, and has a long way up to go....However, if anyone but me takes over in 2020 (I know the competition very well), there will be a Market Crash the likes of which has not been seen before! KEEP AMERICA GREAT
6:44 AM - 15 Jun 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1139891393252474880

Trump brags about U.S. prosperity. But conditions improved more under his predecessors. (Even Pres. Jimmy Carter.)

The Trump years have been no better than average and mostly below average in 12 of the 14 measures. The bond market suffered its worst performance the past two years than in any other presidency since Carter. Anemic productivity and a widening deficit as a percentage of GDP are the worst since George W. Bush was president. The dollar’s 3.2 percent annualized decline and GDP growth of 2.24 percent give Trump no better than a No. 5 ranking.

The 14 measures where Trump does not measure up to the last 7 Presidents (but he does beat Bush):

Trump’s Rank out of 7 Presidents
4 S&P 500 Index
4 Gap between U.S. and global stocks
4 Nonfarm payrolls
3 Disposable income per capita
4 Debt-to-income ratio
5 Gross domestic product
6 Deficit as share of GDP
4 Home equity
7 Bond performance
5 Dollar value
1 Manufacturing jobs
4 Auto sales
4 Hourly wages
6 Productivity
6 Trump’s OVERALL RANK (But at least it is better than G.W. Bush, who crashed the economy in 2008. Trump is threatening to do the same if you don’t vote for him. www.thebalance.com/2008-financial-crisis-3305679 )

Much more at www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-28/trump-economy-lags-clint
on-s-obama-s-reagan-s-and-even-carter-s


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 17, 2019 7:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


The one thing I won't argue you on is that the working guy is still getting screwed just as bad as he has for decades.

The DOW means nothing to most of us.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 17, 2019 8:12 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The one thing I won't argue you on is that the working guy is still getting screwed just as bad as he has for decades.

The DOW means nothing to most of us.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Does the minimum wage mean anything? There is a bill to raise it, but the Republican majority leader in the Senate refuses to vote on it because it's communism or something according to him. It has a cute name: "Raise the Wage Act". It's not gonna happen so long as the GOP can stop it. www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/582/text

The federal minimum wage was last raised on July 24, 2009, when it rose from $6.55 to $7.25 per hour, the last step of a three-step increase approved by Congress in 2007. Before 2007, the minimum wage had been stuck at $5.15 per hour for 10 years.

According to 2017 estimates from the Economic Policy Institute, raising the minimum wage to $15 would increase wages for roughly 40 million people — nearly 30 percent of the workforce. Once fully phased in, this roughly translates into an annual pay increase of about $3,500 for the average affected worker. (It is raised in steps to $15/hr over 5 years. $15 in 2024 is equivalent to $1.05/hr I was making at Burger King in 1970, adjusted for inflation. I felt rich going from 95¢ to $1.05. A 1 dime raise was huge to an 18 year old. I figured that if I saved my dimes I'd be rich someday. I was right.)
https://edlabor.house.gov/imo/media/doc/2019-01-16%20Raise%20the%20Wag
e%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 17, 2019 9:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Doesn't really mean anything without any meaningful healthcare. Probably won't mean much when a lot of people lose jobs and prices of everything go up too.

Minimum wage should have been tied to inflation all along.


It's really going to suck for people who make $15/hr right now and don't see any increases.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 17, 2019 9:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]



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Monday, June 17, 2019 9:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
1) Doesn't really mean anything without any meaningful healthcare. 2) Probably won't mean much when a lot of people lose jobs and prices of everything go up too.

1) Democrats have drafted a law for meaningful healthcare. The Republican majority leader in the Senate will never allow it to be voted on.
Read it: www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text

2) It is a standard Republican talking point that you will be fired if the minimum wage is increased. Read it: www.epionline.org/oped/o161/

It also happens to be a standard Republican lie. In the places where the minimum wage has been raised to $15/hr they aren't fired. Amazon had to be pressured to raise wages, but it did and Amazon is still hiring: https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/11/amazon-ceo-jeff-bezos-challenges-riv
al-retailers-to-raise-their-minimum-wages-too
/

Seattle and $15/hr: www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattles-minimum-wage-hikes
-didnt-boost-supermarket-prices-new-uw-study-says
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 17, 2019 9:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yup. Because all of that magic money comes from magic money trees.

No sir. Nobody will be fired and prices of stuff won't go up to pay those additional wages. We've got magic money trees.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 17, 2019 9:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


That ranking is bullshit. How can anyone who gets mostly "4" rank "6'? The numeric average for the ranking is 4.3.

Sheesh, doesn't Bloomberg know how to do arithmetic?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 6:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That ranking is bullshit. How can anyone who gets mostly "4" rank "6'? The numeric average for the ranking is 4.3.

Sheesh, doesn't Bloomberg know how to do arithmetic?

In golf, everybody shoots 3's and 4's and once in a great while a 1 from a hole in one. How in world can they possibly rank the players if everybody is almost equal? They add up the number of strokes for the entire game. The player with the fewest strokes is #1. The player with the most strokes gets assigned the #7 rank. Something like that happened to Trump's score. Only Bush, who crashed the economy in 2008 and inflated the national debt and started two wars (that's a two stroke penalty), has a worse score than Trump.

Trump brags about U.S. prosperity. But conditions improved more under his predecessors, except Bush.
www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-28/trump-economy-lags-clint
on-s-obama-s-reagan-s-and-even-carter-s


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 7:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That ranking is bullshit. How can anyone who gets mostly "4" rank "6'? The numeric average for the ranking is 4.3.

Sheesh, doesn't Bloomberg know how to do arithmetic?

In golf, everybody shoots 3's and 4's and once in a great while a 1 from a hole in one. How in world can they possibly rank the players if everybody is almost equal? They add up the number of strokes for the entire game. The player with the fewest strokes is #1. The player with the most strokes gets assigned the #7 rank. Something like that happened to Trump's score. Only Bush, who crashed the economy in 2008 and inflated the national debt and started two wars (that's a two stroke penalty), has a worse score than Trump.

Trump brags about U.S. prosperity. But conditions improved more under his predecessors, except Bush.
www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-28/trump-economy-lags-clint
on-s-obama-s-reagan-s-and-even-carter-s


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Well, to be fair, under your own metrics here, there are quite a few years left before you can truly tally up Trump's score. At least 1/2 if we're only comparing to GHWB and Carter.

Trump's had 2 1/2 years.

Obama had 8.
GWB had 8.
Clinton had 8.
GHWB had 4.
Reagan had 8.
Carter had 4.

That's not even going into the fact that the economy just gets worse the longer time goes on and we run out of 3rd world countries to exploit and US labor gets replaced by cheaper labor and automation.

The good times are over, and nobody's going to right that ship.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 18, 2019 10:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

That's not even going into the fact that the economy just gets worse the longer time goes on and we run out of 3rd world countries to exploit and US labor gets replaced by cheaper labor and automation.

The good times are over, and nobody's going to right that ship.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

That is how the King of Belgium got rich, by exploiting the Congo. But that strategy for wealth building is 100 years out of date.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Leopold%27s_Ghost

The basic formula for national economic growth is simple: Economic growth = Population growth + Productivity growth. Population growth has been slowing down for decades. We know exactly what the population of the country is going to be over the next few years.

So that leaves productivity growth, which the BLS estimates. In order to achieve 3 percent economic growth, we need productivity growth of about 2.3 percent. This is decidedly not normal for the history of the country—not in the past 50 years, anyway. With the brief exception of the unsustainable housing bubble era, we haven’t hit 2.3% productivity growth since the end of 60s.

Productivity growth is a real problem. Trump cannot more than double the productivity growth rate of the past ten years, reaching a target we haven’t hit in a normal, healthy economy for the past half century. There’s simply no reason to believe him, and Mick Mulvaney hasn’t even tried to explain how he thinks Trump can accomplish it. Not even hand waving. He’s literally said nothing about productivity growth at all.

More at www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/05/productivity/

If you wanted tremendous economic growth, America could make every roof a solar electric roof, every car an electric car, every city connected by 400 MPH high speed rail, etc. It is the Green New Deal. That won't happen because the GOP Senators will filibuster it to death. The GOP doesn't want to tax the rich to pay for these projects that create middle-class wealth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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