REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Thursday, July 19, 2018 14:41
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Thursday, February 1, 2018 7:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I've been having a conversation with you in the cinema thread for days now, lol.

Though my own viewpoint on politics and government has changed quite a bit from extremely paranoid in 2006 to borderline nihilistic in 2018, I still find the reactions of people regarding politics to be much more fascinating than most movies, sci-fi or otherwise.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, February 2, 2018 9:51 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Though my own viewpoint on politics and government has changed quite a bit from extremely paranoid in 2006 to borderline nihilistic in 2018, I still find the reactions of people regarding politics to be much more fascinating than most movies, sci-fi or otherwise.

I think we might be living inside an incredibly entertaining movie ( World War Z or maybe World War T ) with Trump as Executive Producer. www.imdb.com/title/tt0816711/

There is a sequel planned. It will be America swarming with even more zombies.
www.imdb.com/title/tt3234552/

I got that idea of comparing America to the movie World War Z from the following about Americans afflicted by a new, bizarre, terrible disease striking society:

The Strange New Pathologies of the World’s First Rich Failed State
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523
5


You might say, having read some of my recent essays, “Umair! Don’t worry! Everything will be fine! It’s not that bad!” I would look at you politely, and then say gently, “To tell you the truth, I don’t think we’re taking collapse nearly seriously enough.”

Why When we take a hard look at US collapse, we see a number of social pathologies on the rise. Not just any kind. Not even troubling, worrying, and dangerous ones. But strange and bizarre ones. Unique ones. Singular and gruesomely weird ones I’ve never really seen before, and outside of a dystopia written by Dickens and Orwell, nor have you, and neither has history. They suggest that whatever “numbers” we use to represent decline — shrinking real incomes, inequality, and so on — we are in fact grossly underestimating what pundits call the “human toll”, but which sensible human beings like you and I should simply think of as the overwhelming despair, rage, and anxiety of living in a collapsing society.

Let me give you just five examples of what I’ll call the social pathologies of collapse — strange, weird, and gruesome new diseases, not just ones we don’t usually see in healthy societies, but ones that we have never really seen before in any modern society.

America has had 11 school shootings in the last 23 days. That’s one every other day, more or less. That statistic is alarming enough — but it is just a number. Perspective asks us for comparison. So let me put that another way. America has had 11 school shootings in the last 23 days, which is more than anywhere else in the world, even Afghanistan or Iraq. In fact, the phenomenon of regular school shootings appears to be a unique feature of American collapse — it just doesn’t happen in any other country — and that is what I mean by “social pathologies of collapse”: a new, bizarre, terrible disease striking society.

Why are American kids killing each other Why doesn’t their society care enough to intervene Well, probably because those kids have given up on life — and their elders have given up on them. Or maybe you’re right — and it’s not that simple. Still, what do the kids who aren’t killing each other do Well, a lot of them are busy killing themselves.

So there is of course also an “opioid epidemic”. We use that phrase too casually, but it much more troubling than it appears on first glance. Here is what is really curious about it. In many countries in the world — most of Asia and Africa — one can buy all the opioids one wants from any local pharmacy, without a prescription. You might suppose then that opioid abuse as a mass epidemic would be a global phenomenon. Yet we don’t see opioid epidemics anywhere but America — especially not ones so vicious and widespread they shrink life expectancy. So the “opioid epidemic” — mass self-medication with the hardest of hard drugs — is again a social pathology of collapse: unique to American life. It is not quite captured in the numbers, but only through comparison — and when we see it in global perspective, we get a sense of just how singularly troubled American life really is.

Why would people abuse opioids en masse unlike anywhere else in the world? They must be living genuinely traumatic and desperate lives, in which there is little healthcare, so they have to self-medicate the terror away. But what is so desperate about them? Well, consider another example: the “nomadic retirees”. They live in their cars. They go from place to place, season after season, chasing whatever low-wage work they can find — spring, an Amazon warehouse, Christmas, Walmart.

Now, you might say — “well, poor people have always chased seasonal work!” But that is not really the point: absolute powerlessness and complete indignity is. In no other country I can see do retirees who should have been able to save up enough to live on now living in their cars in order to find work just to go on eating before they die — not even in desperately poor ones, where at least families live together, share resources, and care for one another. This is another pathology of collapse that is unique to America — utter powerlessness to live with dignity. Numbers don’t capture it — but comparisons paint a bleak picture.

How did America’s elderly end up cheated of dignity? After all, even desperately poor countries have “informal social support systems” — otherwise known as families and communities. But in America, there is the catastrophic collapse of social bonds. Extreme capitalism has blown apart American society so totally that people cannot even care for one another as much as they do in places like Pakistan and Nigeria. Social bonds, relationships themselves, have become unaffordable luxuries, more so than even in poor countries: this is yet another social pathology unique to American collapse.

Yet those once poor countries are making great strides. Costa Ricans now have higher life expectancy than Americans — because they have public healthcare. American life expectancy is falling, unlike nearly anywhere else in the world, save the UK — because it doesn’t.

And that is my last pathology: it is one of the soul, not one of the limbs, like the others above. American appear to be quite happy simply watching one another die, in all the ways above. They just don’t appear to be too disturbed, moved, or even affected by the four pathologies above: their kids killing each other, their social bonds collapsing, being powerless to live with dignity,or having to numb the pain of it all away.

If these pathologies happened in any other rich country — even in most poor ones — people would be aghast, shocked, and stunned, and certainly moved to make them not happen. But in America, they are, well, not even resigned. They are indifferent, mostly.

So my last pathology is a predatory society. A predatory society doesn’t just mean oligarchs ripping people off financially. In a truer way, it means people nodding and smiling and going about their everyday business as their neighbours, friends, and colleagues die early deaths in shallow graves. The predator in American society isn’t just its super-rich — but an invisible and insatiable force: the normalization of what in the rest of the world would be seen as shameful, historic, generational moral failures, if not crimes, becoming mere mundane everyday affairs not to be too worried by or troubled about.

Perhaps that sounds strong to you. Is it?

Now that I’ve given you a few examples — there are many more — of the social pathologies of collapse, let me share with you the three points that they raise for me.

These social pathologies are something like strange and gruesome new strains of disease infecting the body social. America has always been a pioneer — only today, it is host not just to problems not just rarely seen in healthy societies — it is pioneering novel social pathologies have never been seen in the modern world outside present-day America, period. What does that tell us

American collapse is much more severe than we suppose it is. We are underestimating its magnitude, not overestimating it. American intellectuals, media, and thought doesn’t put any of its problems in global or historical perspective — but when they are seen that way, America’s problems are revealed to be not just the everyday nuisances of a declining nation, but something more like a body suddenly attacked by unimagined diseases.

Seen accurately. American collapse is a catastrophe of human possibility without modern parallel . And because the mess that America has made of itself, then, is so especially unique, so singular, so perversely special — the treatment will have to be novel, too. The uniqueness of these social pathologies tell us that American collapse is not like a reversion to any mean, or the downswing of a trend. It is something outside the norm. Something beyond the data. Past the statistics. It is like the meteor that hit the dinosaurs: an outlier beyond outliers, an event at the extreme of the extremes. That is why our narratives, frames, and theories cannot really capture it — much less explain it. We need a whole new language — and a new way of seeing — to even begin to make sense of it.

But that is America’s task, not the world’s. The world’s task is this. Should the world follow the American model — extreme capitalism, no public investment, cruelty as a way of life, the perversion of everyday virtue — then these new social pathologies will follow, too. They are new diseases of the body social that have emerged from the diet of junk food — junk media, junk science, junk culture, junk punditry, junk economics, people treating one another and their society like junk — that America has fed upon for too long.

Umair
January 2018

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, February 2, 2018 11:07 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Foreboding article.

The problem with thinking too deep on the subject uv the the future uv human sivilization iz that it leadz to many very unplezent possibilityz and few plezent wunz.



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 4:33 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Foreboding article.

The problem with thinking too deep on the subject uv the the future uv human sivilization iz that it leadz to many very unplezent possibilityz and few plezent wunz.

Here is one much less complicated, but it's still very unpleasant to think that the majority of voters will never understand the trick being played on them. If they can't understand the following article, there is no hope they can escape the complex problems mentioned in https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523
5
:

Let Them Eat French Fries
Paul Krugman, FEB. 4, 2018
www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/opinion/let-them-eat-french-fries.html

In a now-deleted tweet, which has nonetheless already become notorious, Paul Ryan tried to hype the benefits of his massive corporate tax cut by celebrating the example of a worker who’s getting $1.50 more per week. That’s roughly the price of a small French fries at McDonalds.

Should we keep giving Ryan grief over that tweet? Yes, we should – and not just because it shows how out of touch he is. By highlighting the tiny tax cut some workers will get as if that were the point and main result of a bill that blows up the deficit by more than $1 trillion, he helps illustrate the bait-and-switch at the core of the whole G.O.P. agenda.

For tax cuts aren’t free. Sooner or later, the federal government has to pay its way. Even if you don’t think the budget deficit is currently a big problem, except under very special circumstances anything that reduces revenue will eventually have to be offset by later tax increases or spending cuts.

And those special circumstances – basically a depressed economy that needs a fiscal boost – don’t apply now, with the U.S. close to full employment.

So Ryan is patting himself on the back for giving a schoolteacher some French fries. What’s he planning to take away?

Well, we know the answer: Republicans constantly use the alleged dangers of budget deficits to argue for sharp cuts in social programs. You might have thought they’d lay off that rhetoric for a while after passing an unfunded $1.5 trillion tax cut, but in fact they barely paused; even at the height of the tax “reform” debate people like Orrin Hatch declared that we can’t “spend billions and billions and trillions of trillions of dollars to help people who won’t help themselves.” Right now they’re dragging their feet on funding for community health centers, complaining about the cost.

So here’s how the bait and switch goes: pass a huge tax cut that overwhelmingly benefits the rich, but gives ordinary workers a few crumbs — or actually a bag of fries now and then. Then point to the big deficits created by that tax cut as a reason social program essential to many ordinary families must be slashed. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It’s such an obvious scam that you might think either that its perpetrators would get embarrassed or that the public would get wise. But the first won’t happen. The second – well, we’ll see in November.

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 8:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523

In interestingly enough, the author lays the collapse at the feet of our particular brand of predatory capitalism - the kind both republicans AND DEMOCRATS love so wholeheartedly.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 8:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523

In interestingly enough, the author lays the collapse at the feet of our particular brand of predatory capitalism - the kind both republicans AND DEMOCRATS love so wholeheartedly.

You would not be correct on that. The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite. You can quibble about how far Congressional Democrats would dare to go when they write the law for their "ideal" version, but no matter how short or far a distance they go down the path to "ideal", they will be absolutely opposed by every force the GOP can bring against them. Need I add that since it takes 67 votes in the Senate, not 51, to get anything controversial and permanently done (not just for 10 years and then repealed), the Democrats will fall far short of "ideal".

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 9:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite.
I invite you to find universal healthcare in their platform. http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/2016_DNC_Platf
orm.pdf
They 'believe' in universal healthcare, and will fight for better 'access', and maybe they might even fight for 'expansion' - but universal healthcare is not a goal. When it comes to taxes on the wealthy, democrats propose many little jiggers, but no overall reform of the tax system that might lead to fairness. And their plan for minimum wage is $15/ hr, plus some really vague promises to 'fight' or 'work for' higher wages by some unstated method. BTW, you can thank Bernie for bringing the three witches to that point.

Basically, there are a lot of vague statements about how much they 'care' and that they'll 'work' - but no actual plans.

darn cat is sitting in front of the screen

HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 10:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523

In interestingly enough, the author lays the collapse at the feet of our particular brand of predatory capitalism - the kind both republicans AND DEMOCRATS love so wholeheartedly.

You would not be correct on that. The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite. You can quibble about how far Congressional Democrats would dare to go when they write the law for their "ideal" version, but no matter how short or far a distance they go down the path to "ideal", they will be absolutely opposed by every force the GOP can bring against them. Need I add that since it takes 67 votes in the Senate, not 51, to get anything controversial and permanently done (not just for 10 years and then repealed), the Democrats will fall far short of "ideal".

I didn't recall that the GOP has brought legislation to repeal Minimum Wage.

I had only heard the GOP opposed to Inflation-causing Minimum Wage Increases.

When did they bring forth Bills to Repeal Minimum Wage?

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:21 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

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Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Wen havent they?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+to+repeal+minimum+wage&rlz=1C
AACAC_enUS730US730&oq=bill+to+repeal+minimum+wage&aqs=chrome..69i57.9844j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Are you just plain stupid beyond belief?
Your linky produces no results which indicate GOP has brought forth any
Bills to Repeal Minimum Wage.
You seem just proving my point.

If you find one, post it.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 12:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


hmmmmmmm...

I also believe that something needs to be done about minimum wage, tying it to inflation first and hopefully removing SS and Medicaid taxes on the lowest earners in the country.

Guess I'm not Republican then?

So many issues that I don't agree with the GOP on, yet to the few people in here that keep claiming that I am one I see no evidence that they aren't Democrats when they say that they aren't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 1:46 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
hmmmmmmm...

I also believe that something needs to be done about minimum wage, tying it to inflation first and hopefully removing SS and Medicaid taxes on the lowest earners in the country.

Guess I'm not Republican then?

So many issues that I don't agree with the GOP on, yet to the few people in here that keep claiming that I am one I see no evidence that they aren't Democrats when they say that they aren't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Just because you want to ramp up inflation and depress the economy in exchange for your personal self interests does not mean you are inherently anti-conservative.

I have seen you become overly sensitive, so no need to answer if you do not wish:
Do you know why most campaigners and promoters (Unions) of Minimum Wage Increases demand these Increases?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 1:52 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
hmmmmmmm...

I also believe that something needs to be done about minimum wage, tying it to inflation first and hopefully removing SS and Medicaid taxes on the lowest earners in the country.

Guess I'm not Republican then?

So many issues that I don't agree with the GOP on, yet to the few people in here that keep claiming that I am one I see no evidence that they aren't Democrats when they say that they aren't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Just because you want to ramp up inflation and depress the economy in exchange for your personal self interests does not mean you are inherently anti-conservative.

I have seen you become overly sensitive, so no need to answer if you do not wish:
Do you know why most campaigners and promoters (Unions) of Minimum Wage Increases demand these Increases?



My suggestion to eliminate SS/Medicaid taxes on the lowest earners would not affect inflation or the economy.

Regardless of how you feel on the issue, the minimum wage is important. It has gotten to the point with inflation now that working a minimum wage job is almost not even worth working anymore. Especially not with all the government handouts that go to poor people with children.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, but if something isn't done soon there will be riots and I'm assuming bloodshed. I can't imagine that even the most stone-cold republican wants to see that happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 3:59 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
hmmmmmmm...

I also believe that something needs to be done about minimum wage, tying it to inflation first and hopefully removing SS and Medicaid taxes on the lowest earners in the country.

Guess I'm not Republican then?

So many issues that I don't agree with the GOP on, yet to the few people in here that keep claiming that I am one I see no evidence that they aren't Democrats when they say that they aren't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Just because you want to ramp up inflation and depress the economy in exchange for your personal self interests does not mean you are inherently anti-conservative.

I have seen you become overly sensitive, so no need to answer if you do not wish:
Do you know why most campaigners and promoters (Unions) of Minimum Wage Increases demand these Increases?


Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question - the only question I posed, but I don't see where you answered it.
Quote:

Regardless of how you feel on the issue, the minimum wage is important. It has gotten to the point with inflation now that working a minimum wage job is almost not even worth working anymore.
You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage? Thus taking away even more economic power from the Minimum Wage worker?
Quote:

Especially not with all the government handouts that go to poor people with children.

A separate issue from Minimum Wage Increases.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A separate issue from Minimum Wage Increases.



Yes and no.

Yes for you because neither of them directly effect your life.

No for the more than half of Americans who are making below the federal poverty level today.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:08 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question - the only question I posed, but I don't see where you answered it.



Yes I am. It's irrelevant.

Quote:

You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?


I said I didn't have all the answers. But you're going to have to do a lot more than just say something is true to make it true.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:10 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A separate issue from Minimum Wage Increases.

Yes and no.

Yes for you because neither of them directly effect your life.

No for the more than half of Americans who are making below the federal poverty level today.

They are separate issues. If they were the same issue, then all Minimum Wage workers would make the same.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:14 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question - the only question I posed, but I don't see where you answered it.

Yes I am. It's irrelevant.
Quote:

You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?
I said I didn't have all the answers. But you're going to have to do a lot more than just say something is true to make it true.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

gotcha.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A separate issue from Minimum Wage Increases.

Yes and no.

Yes for you because neither of them directly effect your life.

No for the more than half of Americans who are making below the federal poverty level today.

They are separate issues. If they were the same issue, then all Minimum Wage workers would make the same.



So what's your point? Who cares?

You don't think the rampant government subsidies already out there for the poor aren't raising the hell out inflation anyhow?

What's your solution, Mr. Smarty Pants?

All I'm telling you is that if nothing is done, somebody is going to come up in your hood and violently take your stuff. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but that day is coming.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:31 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523

In interestingly enough, the author lays the collapse at the feet of our particular brand of predatory capitalism - the kind both republicans AND DEMOCRATS love so wholeheartedly.

You would not be correct on that. The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite. You can quibble about how far Congressional Democrats would dare to go when they write the law for their "ideal" version, but no matter how short or far a distance they go down the path to "ideal", they will be absolutely opposed by every force the GOP can bring against them. Need I add that since it takes 67 votes in the Senate, not 51, to get anything controversial and permanently done (not just for 10 years and then repealed), the Democrats will fall far short of "ideal".

I didn't recall that the GOP has brought legislation to repeal Minimum Wage.

I had only heard the GOP opposed to Inflation-causing Minimum Wage Increases.

When did they bring forth Bills to Repeal Minimum Wage?

"Inflation-causing wage increases" is a nice formula for no minimum wage. What could be better to change inflation to a negative number than to do away with the minimum altogether? And Ron Paul and Rand Paul were thinking the existence of minimum wage was a plot against libertarian principles. Most other Republican Congressmen are smarter than the Pauls and won't say it out loud.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite.
I invite you to find universal healthcare in their platform. http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/2016_DNC_Platf
orm.pdf
They 'believe' in universal healthcare, and will fight for better 'access', and maybe they might even fight for 'expansion' - but universal healthcare is not a goal.

I took 1kiki's challenge and I find on page 31: "Securing Universal Health Care"

"Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. We took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (ACA)."

I believe 1kiki is mistaken about universal healthcare is NOT a goal of the Democrats.
Quote:

ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ALL AMERICANS
Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (ACA). Being stronger together means finally achieving that goal. We are going to fight to make sure every American has access to quality, affordable health care. We will tackle the problems that remain in our health care system, including cracking down on runaway prescription drug prices and addressing mental health with the same seriousness that we treat physical health. We will fight Republican efforts to roll back the clock on women’s health and reproductive rights, and stand up for Planned Parenthood. And we will tackle the epidemics of substance abuse and gun violence, which each claim tens of thousands of lives every year.

Securing Universal Health Care
Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. Thanks to the hard work of President Obama and Democrats in Congress, we took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act, which has covered 20 million more Americans and ensured millions more will never be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. As part of that guarantee, Americans should be able to access public coverage through a public option, and those over 55 should be able to opt in to Medicare. Democrats will empower the states, which are the true laboratories of democracy, to use innovation waivers under the ACA to develop unique locally tailored approaches to health coverage. This will include removing barriers to states which seek to experiment with plans to ensure universal health care to every person in their state. By contrast, Donald Trump wants to repeal the ACA, leaving tens of millions of Americans without coverage.
For too many of us, health care costs are still too high, even for those with insurance. And medical debt is a problem for far too many working families, with one-quarter of Americans reporting that they or someone in their household had problems or an inability to pay medical bills in the past year. Democrats will also work to end surprise billing and other practices that lead to out-of-control medical debt that place an unconscionable economic strain on American households. We will repeal the excise tax on high-cost health insurance and find revenue to offset it because we need to contain the long-term growth of health care costs, but should not risk passing on too much of the burden to workers. Democrats will keep costs down by making premiums more affordable, reducing out-of-pocket expenses, and capping prescription drug costs. And we will fight against insurers trying to impose excessive premium increases.
Democrats will fight any attempts by Republicans in Congress to privatize, voucherize, or “phase out” Medicare as we know it. And we will oppose Republican plans to slash funding and block grant Medicaid and SNAP, which would harm millions of Americans.
We will keep fighting until the ACA’s Medicaid expansion has been adopted in every state. Nineteen states have not yet expanded Medicaid. This means that millions of low-income Americans still lack health insurance and are not getting the care they need. Additionally, health care providers, clinics, hospitals, and taxpayers are footing a higher bill when people without insurance visit expensive emergency rooms.
Democrats believe your zip code or census tract should not be a predictor of your health, which is why we will make health equity a central part of our commitment to revitalizing communities left behind. Democrats believe that all health care services should be culturally and linguistically appropriate, and that neither fear nor immigration status should be barriers that impede health care access.

Supporting Community Health Centers
We must renew and expand our commitment to Community Health Centers, as well as community mental health centers and family planning centers. These health centers provide critically important, community-based prevention and treatment in underserved communities, prevent unnecessary and expensive trips to emergency rooms, and are essential to the successful implementation of the ACA. We will fight for a comprehensive system of primary health care, including dental, mental health care, and low-cost prescription drugs by doubling of funding for federally qualified community health centers over the next decade, which currently serve 25 million people.
Democrats also know that one of the key ingredients to the success of these health centers is a well-supported and qualified workforce in community-based settings. We will fight to train and support this workforce, encourage providers to work with underserved populations through the National Health Service Corps, and create a comprehensive strategy to increase the pool of primary health care professionals.

I never read even one word of the Democrat's platform before today because none of it will ever pass into law so long as there are at least 34 Republicans in the Senate. So long as 17 states (with 34 Senators) out of 50 states are Republican, Universal Healthcare will never happen. That is a serious flaw in drafting the Constitution when North and South Dakota and Wyoming and Montana are twice as important in the Senate than California and New York put together. Let us all be thankful to slave owner James Madison who wrote a slavery preserving Constitution, which required only a million dead in a Civil War to alter a paragraph about slavery.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 5:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:

"Securing Universal Health Care"

"Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. We took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (ACA)."

ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ALL AMERICANS
Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (ACA). Being stronger together means finally achieving that goal. We are going to fight to make sure every American has access to quality, affordable health care. We will tackle the problems that remain in our health care system, including cracking down on runaway prescription drug prices and addressing mental health with the same seriousness that we treat physical health. We will fight Republican efforts to roll back the clock on women’s health and reproductive rights, and stand up for Planned Parenthood. And we will tackle the epidemics of substance abuse and gun violence, which each claim tens of thousands of lives every year.

Securing Universal Health Care
Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. Thanks to the hard work of President Obama and Democrats in Congress, we took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act, which has covered 20 million more Americans and ensured millions more will never be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. As part of that guarantee, Americans should be able to access public coverage through a public option, and those over 55 should be able to opt in to Medicare. Democrats will empower the states, which are the true laboratories of democracy, to use innovation waivers under the ACA to develop unique locally tailored approaches to health coverage. This will include removing barriers to states which seek to experiment with plans to ensure universal health care to every person in their state. By contrast, Donald Trump wants to repeal the ACA, leaving tens of millions of Americans without coverage.
For too many of us, health care costs are still too high, even for those with insurance. And medical debt is a problem for far too many working families, with one-quarter of Americans reporting that they or someone in their household had problems or an inability to pay medical bills in the past year. Democrats will also work to end surprise billing and other practices that lead to out-of-control medical debt that place an unconscionable economic strain on American households. We will repeal the excise tax on high-cost health insurance and find revenue to offset it because we need to contain the long-term growth of health care costs, but should not risk passing on too much of the burden to workers. Democrats will keep costs down by making premiums more affordable, reducing out-of-pocket expenses, and capping prescription drug costs. And we will fight against insurers trying to impose excessive premium increases.
Democrats will fight any attempts by Republicans in Congress to privatize, voucherize, or “phase out” Medicare as we know it. And we will oppose Republican plans to slash funding and block grant Medicaid and SNAP, which would harm millions of Americans.
We will keep fighting until the ACA’s Medicaid expansion has been adopted in every state. Nineteen states have not yet expanded Medicaid. This means that millions of low-income Americans still lack health insurance and are not getting the care they need. Additionally, health care providers, clinics, hospitals, and taxpayers are footing a higher bill when people without insurance visit expensive emergency rooms.
Democrats believe your zip code or census tract should not be a predictor of your health, which is why we will make health equity a central part of our commitment to revitalizing communities left behind. Democrats believe that all health care services should be culturally and linguistically appropriate, and that neither fear nor immigration status should be barriers that impede health care access.

Supporting Community Health Centers
We must renew and expand our commitment to Community Health Centers, as well as community mental health centers and family planning centers. These health centers provide critically important, community-based prevention and treatment in underserved communities, prevent unnecessary and expensive trips to emergency rooms, and are essential to the successful implementation of the ACA. We will fight for a comprehensive system of primary health care, including dental, mental health care, and low-cost prescription drugs by doubling of funding for federally qualified community health centers over the next decade, which currently serve 25 million people.
Democrats also know that one of the key ingredients to the success of these health centers is a well-supported and qualified workforce in community-based settings. We will fight to train and support this workforce, encourage providers to work with underserved populations through the National Health Service Corps, and create a comprehensive strategy to increase the pool of primary health care professionals.


What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 5:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

You were a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. Look at his plan.

It has numbers attached: https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

It has legal language: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act

It will not pass so long as 34 GOP Senators exist.

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people." -- Bernie Sanders

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Monday, February 5, 2018 5:48 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Are you just plain stupid beyond belief?



Yes.
Its horrible being only twise az smart az you.

Quote:

Your linky produces no results which indicate GOP has brought forth any
Bills to Repeal Minimum Wage.



https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/104/hr3481

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2017/07/03/bill-repealing-st-
louis-minimum-wage-increase-to.html


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2017/07/16/bill-would-rep
eal-minimum-pay-wisconsin-road-workers-and-allow-single-firm-design-build-highways/480549001
/

https://www.thoughtco.com/members-of-congress-abolish-minimum-wage-336
7838


https://newrepublic.com/article/130783/preemption-bills-new-conservati
ve-tool-block-minimum-wage-increases


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/opinion/when-states-fight-to-overtu
rn-good-local-labor-laws.html


Just a sample from paje 1. Obviously you didnt bother to klik & read any uv the serch rezults.

Slitely different wording in the serch gets more rezults, such az this resent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/04/30/senate
-republicans-block-minimum-wage-increase-bill/?utm_term=.27f778095428


Herez the Wiki about Minimum Waje Law in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States
You shoud read it in order to not look like a fool.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, February 5, 2018 6:02 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Herez the simple minded Republican filosofy on minimum waje law:

http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-minimum-wage/

Az with all their quazilibertarian gobbledygoop, they start with a poorly considered premis and then pile 'obvious' 'undeniable' extrapolationz upon it that often fail to even pass the internal lojik requirement. And virtually everything they think (I uze that word reluctantly for wuts going on in their skullz) iz disproven by real world historical facts.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, February 5, 2018 6:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Strawman, diversion.

Ok, so you can't dispute that dems don't ACTUALLY have a universal health care plan.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 6:47 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But yanno, I've finally figured out your role in the democratic party SECOND. You're the gangrenous tissue that's rotting away the rest of it.

You didn't read the platform because you don't think it's important. You don't think dems need to come up with a plan that will make people want to vote for them. You don't think dems need to come up with a political response to repudiate Trump and offer an alternative hope, either. In fact, you don't want dems to change anything because it threatens your wealth.

You think it's enough to say: vote for a dem because you loathe republicans. Though when it comes down to it, you don't even like democracy. You'd prefer the Deep State get Trump by any illegal means, and screw the vote.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 9:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Strawman, diversion.

Ok, so you can't dispute that dems don't ACTUALLY have a universal health care plan.

I already did dispute your notion that dems don't have a universal healthcare plan.

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people." -- Bernie Sanders

Here is the 96 page long bill: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 5, 2018 9:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

You think it's enough to say: vote for a dem because you loathe republicans. Though when it comes down to it, you don't even like democracy. You'd prefer the Deep State get Trump by any illegal means, and screw the vote.

Since when is the Electoral College democratic? Trump received 47.3% of the popular vote in Michigan yet is awarded 100% of the vote. Since when did 47.3% equal 50% + 1 more vote majority?
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/michigan-president-clinton-trump

In Pennsylvania Trump got closer to the magic number in Democracies of 50%. He got 48.2%. That was close, but no cigar, except Pennsylvania's Electoral College was 100% for Trump. That is not how the vote in a Democracy works.
www.nytimes.com/elections/results/pennsylvania

Real Democracies have run-off elections when no candidate receives a majority. There has never been a run-off for President of the United States, despite occasions when no one got a majority.

Real Democracies in other countries than the US don't require a 67% majority to pass important laws in their equivalent of the US Senate. Since when has the US been run like a real democracy?

Slave owner James Madison wrote into the Constitution a system that would protect slave owners from non-owners. We don't have slavery today only because the slave owners foolishly walked out of Congress, but if they had not walked, the continued existence of slavery would come down to a vote in Congress. That undemocratic system designed to protect slave owners is still in the Constitution and the GOP is using it to protect themselves from the modern day non-slave owners equivalent.

Take note that Antebellum slave owning States had a very high opinion of the righteousness of their slave owning culture. Today, the GOP controlled States have the same high opinion of their culture and are using the same Constitutional/legislative/undemocratic levers that the slave owners once used to get their way.

The GOP has perfected gerrymandering voting districts. That is not how real Democracies are run. The GOP suppresses voter turn out on election days. That too is not how real Democracies work.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 5, 2018 11:11 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


The ACA did nothing at all to bring us closer to Universal Healthcare. It artificially inflated insurance costs while at the same time doing nothing to curb the ever inflating costs of the healthcare itself.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 11:19 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
I already did dispute your notion that dems don't have a universal healthcare plan.

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people." -- Bernie Sanders

Here is the 96 page long bill: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act

Then you don't know what's in Medicare, and that it leaves many types of medical care UNCOVERED. Which means - it's not universal.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 11:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
You think it's enough to say: vote for a dem because you loathe republicans. Though when it comes down to it, you don't even like democracy. You'd prefer the Deep State get Trump by any illegal means, and screw the vote.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Since when is the Electoral College democratic?

Since the process was put into the Constitution.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 1:33 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523

In interestingly enough, the author lays the collapse at the feet of our particular brand of predatory capitalism - the kind both republicans AND DEMOCRATS love so wholeheartedly.

You would not be correct on that. The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite. You can quibble about how far Congressional Democrats would dare to go when they write the law for their "ideal" version, but no matter how short or far a distance they go down the path to "ideal", they will be absolutely opposed by every force the GOP can bring against them. Need I add that since it takes 67 votes in the Senate, not 51, to get anything controversial and permanently done (not just for 10 years and then repealed), the Democrats will fall far short of "ideal".

I didn't recall that the GOP has brought legislation to repeal Minimum Wage.

I had only heard the GOP opposed to Inflation-causing Minimum Wage Increases.

When did they bring forth Bills to Repeal Minimum Wage?

"Inflation-causing wage increases" is a nice formula for no minimum wage. What could be better to change inflation to a negative number
Here is an interesting slip-up. One of the ways MWI spurs up inflation is by NOT following inflation, when inflation becomes negative. If Minimum Wage Rate and all follow-on Pay Schedules were retracted at the same rate as deflation, the premise of Minimum Wage Increases would be more palatable. But the inflated pay rates remain inflated, ensuring that inflation with return with vigor, instead of allowing the inflation/deflation cycle to stabilize.
Accidentally swerving into the truth, second sometimes does.
Quote:

than to do away with the minimum altogether?.
And yet again, surprise, surprise, second avoids answering the fairly simple question. The question looks to be in Standard American English to me. Does second require a special Tejas Jehovah's Witness dialect presentation in order to comprehend?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 1:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
"Securing Universal Health Care"

"Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. We took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (ACA)."

ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF ALL AMERICANS
Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act (ACA). Being stronger together means finally achieving that goal. We are going to fight to make sure every American has access to quality, affordable health care. We will tackle the problems that remain in our health care system, including cracking down on runaway prescription drug prices and addressing mental health with the same seriousness that we treat physical health. We will fight Republican efforts to roll back the clock on women’s health and reproductive rights, and stand up for Planned Parenthood. And we will tackle the epidemics of substance abuse and gun violence, which each claim tens of thousands of lives every year.

Securing Universal Health Care
Democrats believe that health care is a right, not a privilege, and our health care system should put people before profits. Thanks to the hard work of President Obama and Democrats in Congress, we took a critically important step toward the goal of universal health care by passing the Affordable Care Act, which has covered 20 million more Americans and ensured millions more will never be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Democrats will never falter in our generations-long fight to guarantee health care as a fundamental right for every American. As part of that guarantee, Americans should be able to access public coverage through a public option, and those over 55 should be able to opt in to Medicare. Democrats will empower the states, which are the true laboratories of democracy, to use innovation waivers under the ACA to develop unique locally tailored approaches to health coverage. This will include removing barriers to states which seek to experiment with plans to ensure universal health care to every person in their state. By contrast, Donald Trump wants to repeal the ACA, leaving tens of millions of Americans without coverage.
For too many of us, health care costs are still too high, even for those with insurance. And medical debt is a problem for far too many working families, with one-quarter of Americans reporting that they or someone in their household had problems or an inability to pay medical bills in the past year. Democrats will also work to end surprise billing and other practices that lead to out-of-control medical debt that place an unconscionable economic strain on American households. We will repeal the excise tax on high-cost health insurance and find revenue to offset it because we need to contain the long-term growth of health care costs, but should not risk passing on too much of the burden to workers. Democrats will keep costs down by making premiums more affordable, reducing out-of-pocket expenses, and capping prescription drug costs. And we will fight against insurers trying to impose excessive premium increases.
Democrats will fight any attempts by Republicans in Congress to privatize, voucherize, or “phase out” Medicare as we know it. And we will oppose Republican plans to slash funding and block grant Medicaid and SNAP, which would harm millions of Americans.
We will keep fighting until the ACA’s Medicaid expansion has been adopted in every state. Nineteen states have not yet expanded Medicaid. This means that millions of low-income Americans still lack health insurance and are not getting the care they need. Additionally, health care providers, clinics, hospitals, and taxpayers are footing a higher bill when people without insurance visit expensive emergency rooms.
Democrats believe your zip code or census tract should not be a predictor of your health, which is why we will make health equity a central part of our commitment to revitalizing communities left behind. Democrats believe that all health care services should be culturally and linguistically appropriate, and that neither fear nor immigration status should be barriers that impede health care access.

Supporting Community Health Centers
We must renew and expand our commitment to Community Health Centers, as well as community mental health centers and family planning centers. These health centers provide critically important, community-based prevention and treatment in underserved communities, prevent unnecessary and expensive trips to emergency rooms, and are essential to the successful implementation of the ACA. We will fight for a comprehensive system of primary health care, including dental, mental health care, and low-cost prescription drugs by doubling of funding for federally qualified community health centers over the next decade, which currently serve 25 million people.
Democrats also know that one of the key ingredients to the success of these health centers is a well-supported and qualified workforce in community-based settings. We will fight to train and support this workforce, encourage providers to work with underserved populations through the National Health Service Corps, and create a comprehensive strategy to increase the pool of primary health care professionals.

What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

Hot contender for Post of the Week.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 1:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

You were a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. Look at his plan.

It has numbers attached: https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

It has legal language: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act

It will not pass so long as 34 GOP Senators exist.

What does Socialist Bernie, representing Socialists and Communists, have to do with the Platform of the Democrat Party, of which he has not been a member?

34 GOP Senators have not always existed. They do exist now because they had A PLAN, they presented THEIR PLAN to the American Electorate, and pledged to put THEIR PLAN into Law.
Try getting your pretty little head to comprehend the concept of A PLAN.
A PLAN of the Democrat Party, included in their platform.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 2:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

You were a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. Look at his plan.

It has numbers attached: https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

It has legal language: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act

It will not pass so long as 34 GOP Senators exist.

What does Socialist Bernie, representing Socialists and Communists, have to do with the Platform of the Democrat Party, of which he has not been a member?

The cosponsors of Bernie's bill are Democrats. No Republicans show any interest.
www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1804/cosponsors

Sen. Baldwin. Tammy
Sen. Blumenthal. Richard
Sen. Booker. Corv A.
Sen. Gillibrand. Kirsten E.
Sen. Harris. Kamala D.
Sen. Heinrich. Martin
Sen. Hirono. Mazie K.
Sen. Leahv. Patrick J.
Sen. Markev. Edward J.
Sen. Merklev. Jeff
Sen. Schatz. Brian
Sen. Shaheen. Jeanne
Sen. Udall. Tom
Sen. Warren. Elizabeth
Sen. Whitehouse. Sheldon
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

34 GOP Senators have not always existed. They do exist now because they had A PLAN, they presented THEIR PLAN to the American Electorate, and pledged to put THEIR PLAN into Law.
Try getting your pretty little head to comprehend the concept of A PLAN.
A PLAN of the Democrat Party, included in their platform.

The slave owning states had a plan, too. The smarter states such as Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, and Missouri did not leave the Union. The dumber states such as Arkansas, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia jumped out of Congress late and lost all their power. And then there were the stupid ass states of the deep South that quit Congress immediately. The slave states could have easily taken over the United States in the 19th Century if only the slave owners had used the Senate wisely. Smarter 20th Century planners to take over the U.S.A. know better than to repeat the mistakes of the Confederacy by quitting Congress.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_states_(American_Civil_War)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 2:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Lettuce attempt to fathom just how illiterate LinkMonkey JO really is:
Delving into Libtard delusions is ALWAYS tedious in the extreme.

Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Are you just plain stupid beyond belief?

Yes.
Its horrible being only twise az smart az you.
Quote:

Your linky produces no results which indicate GOP has brought forth any Bills to Repeal Minimum Wage.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/104/hr3481

HR3481 of the 104th sought to repeal specific subsections of FLSA in 1994. Sections 205, 206, and 208. Section 206(c) was repealed in 1997 (Clinton, the famous Republican), and concerned American Samoa, Puerto Rico, etc. Sections 205 and 208 were repealed in 2007, and concerned American Samoa, etc.
Obviously, the genius of JO has discovered that Minimum Wage WAS REPEALED IN 2007 - IT NO LONGER EXISTS!!!!!
Strike One.
Quote:


https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2017/07/03/bill-repealing-st-
louis-minimum-wage-increase-to.html


St Louis does not enact Federal Laws, even regarding the Federal Minimum Wage. Although obvious, apparently not for delusional Libtards.
Strike Two.
Repealing the INCREASE of the Minimum Wage does not in any way affect EXISTENCE of Minimum Wage Law. Although obvious, apparently not for delusional Libtards.
Strike Three.
Quote:


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2017/07/16/bill-would-rep
eal-minimum-pay-wisconsin-road-workers-and-allow-single-firm-design-build-highways/480549001
/

Repeat of Strike 2, except this time Wisconsin.
Strike Four.
Repeat, sort of, of Strike 2, except this is "road workers" - are McDonalds employees road workers?
Strike Five.
Quote:


https://www.thoughtco.com/members-of-congress-abolish-minimum-wage-336
7838


Libtard opinion of what delusional Libtards think Republicans should do.
Strike Six.
Complete lack of any legislation brought forth, any Plank of the GOP Platform, nothing at all, not even an attempt to seriously answer the query.
Strike Seven.
Quote:


https://newrepublic.com/article/130783/preemption-bills-new-conservati
ve-tool-block-minimum-wage-increases


Same swing as Strike 3.
Strike Eight.
Quote:


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/19/opinion/when-states-fight-to-overtu
rn-good-local-labor-laws.html


Libtard opinion, no legislation or GOP Platform Plank.
Strike Nine.
Same swing as Strike 2, except this time "States"
Strike Ten.
Same swing as Strike 2, except this time "local labor laws"
Strike Eleven.
Quote:

Just a sample from paje 1.
So, not ONE SINGLE VALID RESULT - OF A WHOLE PAGE of your genius level reserach?
Strike Twelve.
Quote:

Obviously you didnt bother to klik & read any uv the serch rezults.
Pot calling the Fine China black? OBVIOUSLY a completely fraudulent claim right there.
Strike Thirteen.
Quote:

Slitely different wording in the serch gets more rezults, such az this resent example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/04/30/senate
-republicans-block-minimum-wage-increase-bill/?utm_term=.27f778095428


Identical swing to Strike 3.
Strike Fourteen.
Quote:

Herez the Wiki about Minimum Waje Law in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

No shit, Sherlock. Quite familiar with this Libtard version of your delusions. Would you like to point out the sentence or paragraph which specifies the legislation or GOP Platform Plank seeking to Repeal the Federal Minimum Wage? All other MW Laws are moot in this regard, as long as the Federal MW exists. Since you have thus far proven to be clueless and/or illiterate, you will certainly fail outside of your delusions.
Strike Fifteen.
Quote:

You shoud read it in order to not look like a fool.

Right back atcha.
Strike Sixteen.
Not even one single Ball.
A fine example of your prowess at illiteracy.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 3:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Pennsylvania Supreme Court recently ruled that the Republican gerrymandering of congressional districts was wildly unconstitutional. Republicans immediately appealed to the US Supreme Court, which was a savvy move since Samuel Alito, the most conservative justice on the court, represents the district that includes Pennsylvania. If there was even a ghost of a case to be made, he’d recommend that the full court take a look.

He didn’t. Pennsylvania’s districts will be redrawn in a tolerably honest way for the 2018 elections.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 5, 2018 3:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Herez the simple minded Republican filosofy on minimum waje law:

http://www.republicanviews.org/republican-views-on-minimum-wage/

Az with all their quazilibertarian gobbledygoop, they start with a poorly considered premis and then pile 'obvious' 'undeniable' extrapolationz upon it that often fail to even pass the internal lojik requirement. And virtually everything they think (I uze that word reluctantly for wuts going on in their skullz) iz disproven by real world historical facts.

Yet another Libtard opinion site congested with delusional echo chambers? And you allow this coagulated muck into your cranium?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 3:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What's the plan again? THEY DON'T HAVE ONE. And while they CLAIM to be behind universal health care, they pin it to Medicare, which is far from universal, the ACA which lets you get diagnosed with free screening but raped with actual care costs, and, even worse, the dems want to keep insurance companies in the mix.

They CLAIM 'universal', then talk a mishmash of fight fantasies about everything but.

You were a big supporter of Bernie in 2016. Look at his plan.

It has numbers attached: https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

It has legal language: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act

It will not pass so long as 34 GOP Senators exist.

What does Socialist Bernie, representing Socialists and Communists, have to do with the Platform of the Democrat Party, of which he has not been a member?

The cosponsors of Bernie's bill are Democrats.
Still working feverishly to avoid kiki's simple plain question?
What is the DEMOCRAT PLAN? What PLAN is a Plank in in Democrat Party Platform?
Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
34 GOP Senators have not always existed. They do exist now because they had A PLAN, they presented THEIR PLAN to the American Electorate, and pledged to put THEIR PLAN into Law.
Try getting your pretty little head to comprehend the concept of A PLAN.
A PLAN of the Democrat Party, included in their platform.

The slave owning states...blah blah blah (more enrelated diversionary hubris)

get back to the topic at hand, m'kay?

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
You think it's enough to say: vote for a dem because you loathe republicans. Though when it comes down to it, you don't even like democracy. You'd prefer the Deep State get Trump by any illegal means, and screw the vote.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Since when is the Electoral College democratic?

Since the process was put into the Constitution.

Maybe we shouldn't be too hard on the illiterate. Second seems unable to comprehend the concepts of Democratic vs. democratic.
Second's inability to comprehend that America is a Republic, though, gets less sympathy from me. Serving as a Commissioned Officer in the United States Marine Corps should have knocked at least a small clue into that brain-housing-group.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
I already did dispute your notion that dems don't have a universal healthcare plan.

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people." -- Bernie Sanders

Here is the 96 page long bill: www.sanders.senate.gov/download/medicare-for-all-act

Then you don't know what's in Medicare, and that it leaves many types of medical care UNCOVERED. Which means - it's not universal.

Facts and definitions are nothing but confusing to Libtards. You must explain how the word FEELS, or what the fact SHOULD say.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 4:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question

Yes I am. It's irrelevant.
Quote:

You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?

gotcha.




Other facts, for future reference:
In 2017, 138 Million Wage and Salary workers. 16.4 M are paid under Union Schedule, or 11.9%.
Of 21 M Public sector workers, 34.4% or 7.2 M were Union members.
Of 117 M Private sector workers, 6.5% or 7.6 M were Union members.
Among public sector, employees of Local Government were 40.1% Union members.
Utilities, 23.0% Union members.
Over half of all Union members work in 7 States, while those 7 States have 1/3 of US workers. CA, NY, IL, MI, PA, NJ, OH.
Non-Union pay remains at 80% of Union pay rates.

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Monday, February 5, 2018 5:23 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Lettuce attempt to fathom just how illiterate LinkMonkey JO really is:
Delving into Libtard delusions is ALWAYS tedious in the extreme.



Your stratejy seemz to be the GoP propaganda ploy: the faithful want to beleeev wutever they hear from us, so will not check anything.

Your overall premis iz that Republican leaderz are either nuetral or in favor uv minimum waje lawz; that they never do anything to block increasez, reduse the minimum or eliminate the law.

The only peepl hoo will beleev that are GoP bleevrz like yourself and maybe a hermit Eskimo who haz no akses to any real media.

Link to the .gov paje about HR 3481:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/104th-congress/house-bill/3481

Summary:
Quote:

Repeals the minimum wage requirement under the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938.

Prohibits the Federal Government from taking any action to regulate or otherwise impede actions taken by the States or local governments to enact or implement minimum wage laws.



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, February 5, 2018 5:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The effects of 137 minimum wage hikes, in one chart
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/05/raising-the-minimum-wag
e-doesnt-cost-jobs-multiple-studies-suggest/?utm_term=.41c172327549


On average, minimum-wage increases eliminated jobs paying below the new minimum, but added jobs paying at or above the new minimum. The two changes effectively cancel each other out.

The decline in jobs paying less than the new minimum wage is offset by an increase in those paying more. Jobs further up the pay scale are largely unaffected, as economists would expect — the minor fluctuations beyond $4 above the new minimum wage are not statistically significant, the study found.

The major benefit of the Dube paper, relative to the Seattle one, is that it incorporates 137 minimum-wage increases, rather than just one.

“If you were just doing that [analysis] in one place, it would be an N [sample size] of 1,” MIT's Autor, who was not involved in the Dube study, said in an interview. “But they have this across a large set of minimum-wage events.”

That larger sample size suggests that the newer paper does a better job of representing how a typical minimum-wage increase might affect a typical community.

“Relative to a normal peer-review process, which involves a couple of anonymous reviewers giving comments privately to a journal editor, this paper had all sorts of critical commentary in public from day one,” Vigdor said. “Some were quick to accept the findings uncritically, and some were quick to dismiss them uncritically. Reported on this way, research just turns into that much more noise.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 5, 2018 6:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e5523

In interestingly enough, the author lays the collapse at the feet of our particular brand of predatory capitalism - the kind both republicans AND DEMOCRATS love so wholeheartedly.

You would not be correct on that. The GOP's ideal version of Capitalism has no universal healthcare and no taxes on the wealthy and no minimum wage. The Democrat's ideal version is the opposite.

JO, second's premise is that GOP Platform includes No Minimum Wage.

Since you cannot understand my correction to this False premise, no point in repeating it to you.
But for others following along who do not seek to become embroiled in your delusions, I indicated that the GOP has never had a Plank in its Platform which sought Repeal of the Federal Minimum Wage, nor has introduced or pursued legislation toward that result.
I also requested evidence if second's premise were true, which would make my recall incorrect.
Nobody thus far has been able to support Second's premise, nor disprove mine.

Additionally, a reasonable goal for holding back inflation would be to resist Increases, and reduce the Minimum Wage during deflation - both lacks of which cause inflation, and rob the Minimum Wage worker of Economic power (despite Minimum Wage workers clamoring to give them less spendable money by Increasing the Minimum Wage)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 8:44 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question

Yes I am. It's irrelevant.
Quote:

You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?

gotcha.




Other facts, for future reference:
In 2017, 138 Million Wage and Salary workers. 16.4 M are paid under Union Schedule, or 11.9%.
Of 21 M Public sector workers, 34.4% or 7.2 M were Union members.
Of 117 M Private sector workers, 6.5% or 7.6 M were Union members.
Among public sector, employees of Local Government were 40.1% Union members.
Utilities, 23.0% Union members.
Over half of all Union members work in 7 States, while those 7 States have 1/3 of US workers. CA, NY, IL, MI, PA, NJ, OH.
Non-Union pay remains at 80% of Union pay rates.



I know what you're getting at. I know the numbers too. I've said that absolutely no Government jobs should be union, or Professional careers either. Teachers unions in particular should not exist. However, for actual dangerous jobs that surround most of the infrastructure that we take for granted everyday I am in favor of unions (yes, even though because of nepotism I have never been able to acquire one).

What I meant was that it is irrelevant to the current argument that if people on the low end that do not have Union jobs and zero government representation do not start seeing pay increases to make their jobs actually worth working with the price of goods constantly going up that our society will start to break down.

This isn't some far distant prediction of some dystopian future, JSF. This is going to start happening very soon. Maybe you live in the middle of a lot of nice suburbs with white picket fences and great school systems, but I live right across the tracks from some pretty high crime rates already.

I drive a shit car, I don't go out of my way to beautify the outside of my home, I don't have a family to worry about and I own a handgun. Chances are, at least for a little while, even though I'd be on the front lines when crime picks up I'll be alright for the most part, but that's not life I want to be living. And you can't put the shit back in the horse either.

Ignore this warning at your own peril.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 8:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Oh... and BTW, I don't think I replied to your assertion that I'm for a minimum wage increase because of my own personal situation. I'm actually working for a company that pays quite a bit more than minimum for new hires. Because of this, they actually run a fairly tight ship and I don't work overnight with people who are one step away from prison like I did at Kmart. (Seriously, one guy hit another guy over the head with a chair on break while he was sitting down and unaware it was coming and had his skull cracked).

I doubt raising the minimum would do anything but hurt me because I don't imagine that if it were raised that we'd be seeing a raise along with it unless it were raised to higher than the starting pay. I don't argue that the minimum wage increase will cause more inflation. I agree with that. This is why my first choice would be to eliminate SS/Medicaid taxes on the lowest earners (tied to inflation) and only then tie the minimum wage to inflation so companies can better prepare for it instead of getting slammed with a $5.00/hr raise for every employee overnight.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 5, 2018 9:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question

Yes I am. It's irrelevant.
Quote:

You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?

I know what you're getting at.

I am fair certain you do not.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:20 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Odd how the GoPs never mention investor dividendz or executiv pay having an inflationary effect. Its az if an unlimited amount uv money can go to the rich without any penalty on sosiety at all.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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