REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Friday, December 7, 2018 07:20
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Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Debunking the myth that “identity politics” is bad for the Democratic Party



Followed by about 8 paragraphs that did no such thing.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I would guess that you did not read the article. I will quote it:

The push for racial justice was a bottom-up movement, not a misstep by elites
www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/4/16/17242748/identity-politics-racial-j
ustice-democratic-party-lilla-traub-trump


African Americans, the CIO, and other urban liberals fostered a new understanding of “liberalism” in which support for civil rights was a key marker of one’s identity as a liberal. Ordinary voters, too, came to link racial and economic liberalism: By the early ’40s, Northern Democratic voters were substantially more likely to back key civil rights initiatives than were Republicans.

Grassroots African-American activists played a critical role in tightening these connections. Capitalizing on the mobilization for World War II, they pushed Fair Employment Practices legislation — to prevent racial discrimination in employment — onto the political agenda. The Fair Employment Practices Committee soon became a core element of the “liberal program.”

The energy and activism that propelled the Democratic Party in the 1940s and beyond came from this new coalition, which gradually captured the formal party organization, despite the reluctance of most top party leaders. The Democrats’ endorsement of civil rights in 1948, and beyond, was not a matter of elites steering the people the wrong way. It was the product of a long-term, cross-racial movement that viewed civil rights as integral to the liberal program — and the labor program.

The “identity politics” argument assumes that racial justice ultimately brought down the liberal project. But this gets the history almost backward. Indeed, much of the moral fervor that fed the liberal project in the 1940s came precisely from its linkage to the cause of racial justice.

The bitter response to this program forged a clear division in which Southern conservatives were identified on one side and African Americans, unions, Jews, and other urban liberals on the other. Where Traub and others think this division was the product of liberals’ shift in focus from white workers to African Americans, racial backlash was sown into the attack on the New Deal almost from the beginning (just as cross-racial solidary was assumed by many of its supporters).

Lessons for today’s Democrats

Contemporary liberals are once again confronted with the challenge of forging a politics in which reformers seeking progress for particular groups do not see themselves as isolated advocates but instead as part of a broader ideological coalition with common aims and shared enemies.

The biggest obstacle to such a coalition today is the decline of organized labor, which played a critical role in forging the expansive New Deal liberalism that took hold in the 1930s. But this decline is rooted not in a post-1965 reaction against civil rights; instead, it can be traced to the alliance between Southern Democrats and Republicans nationally that made crushing unions a top priority from the late 1930s onward.

What the cross-racial liberal vision put forward by the CIO and its African-American allies suggests is that movements for economic justice can derive vitality from attending to the identities and interests of marginalized groups.

New Deal liberalism was, in part, identity politics. Appeals to identity — whether by farmers, veterans, workers, or immigration opponents — have always been a potent political force. The main difference is that, unlike previous versions of identity politics in the US, the identity politics of the New Deal era was not limited to white Americans.

The lesson of the New Deal coalition for liberals today is not that they should turn away from appeals to the identities of particular groups. Instead, liberalism is at its strongest when its advocates understand that justice for each group is essential to achieving justice for all.

Eric Schickler is the Jeffrey and Ashley McDermott professor of political science at the University of California Berkeley and the author of Racial Realignment: The Transformation of American Liberalism, 1932-1965.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 2:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Oh good. You followed up with another 15 paragraphs that did no such thing.

Thanks for wasting my time twice in one morning.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 4:03 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh good. You followed up with another 15 paragraphs that did no such thing.

Thanks for wasting my time twice in one morning.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Didn't you fall for the redefining of Slavers, anti-Freedom, anti-Liberty, anti-Emancipation, anti-Civil Rights Southerners as "Conservatives" already? We must accept that all reasonable people from Lincoln to Dirksen must have been those Progressives working to remove Liberty and Freedom from The Constitution.

No wonder he dislikes reasonable people, when he redefines Democrat Socialist Progressives as "Conservatives".

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 5:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
justice for all

Justice for all. Even whites. Even white males. Even fly-over country.

Justice for all. Excluding no one. Favoring no one. Equal and universal. Uplifting all with efforts to improve all lives. Understanding that justice isn't making sure we're all equally-armed in the Roman arena of the war of all against all in the need for work, where nobody wins except business. Instead, binding us with our common concern and the power of masses, to change our common relationship with government and business.

If the democrats got behind that, I could get behind the democrats.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:28 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh good. You followed up with another 15 paragraphs that did no such thing.

Thanks for wasting my time twice in one morning.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ixStringJack, you have been given by 1kiki a lofty and inspiring explanation. Another, by Thomas Piketty: “without a strong egalitarian-internationalist platform, it is difficult to unite low-education, low-income voters from all origins within the same party.” Because I am crude, I’ll explain "identity politics" crudely: White trash think that dividing money equally with people they despise will mean far less money for white trash. But the white trash of America will never get the money they think they deserve unless Mexicans, niggers, queers and women also get a much bigger share of the wealth. I am in the sweet position of a wealthy person where I can tell the white trash that their understanding of how America works is erroneous. I don’t expect they will understand their error, but that’s great for me. The choice is between getting almost nothing more for anyone but the already wealthy or else everyone gets more, that is everyone except rich people. Wealthy people like me will get far less because they will be paying more taxes and paying higher minimum wages. You might have noticed that higher taxes and higher wages are not on the political agenda. That is a clever choice made by the wealthy – to never pay extra until they absolutely must.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

White trash think that dividing money equally with people they despise will mean far less money for white trash. But the white trash of America will never get the money they think they deserve unless Mexicans, niggers, queers and women also get a much bigger share of the wealth.
It's not true that one group will prosper only if other groups prosper, which is the only argument in favor of identity politics.

That argument is the fallacy of identity politics. Through it we are being played by identity politics into an unstated zero-sum game. The notion is that it's OK to be pitted against each other for survival, as long as the fight is FAIR. But it doesn't matter how FAIRLY we are judged in the arena. There will be the winners at the expense of the losers. If some groups rise it will be because other groups fall. It's still the same zero-sum game.

Democrats - or some new party that rises up out of the ashes - need to specifically reject the notion that people being FAIRLY pitted against each other for survival is the end goal.

The end goal should be to raise us all up. Together.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

White trash think that dividing money equally with people they despise will mean far less money for white trash. But the white trash of America will never get the money they think they deserve unless Mexicans, niggers, queers and women also get a much bigger share of the wealth.
It's not true that one group will prosper only if other groups prosper, which is the only argument in favor of identity politics.

That argument is the fallacy of identity politics. Through it we are being played by identity politics into an unstated zero-sum game. The notion is that it's OK to be pitted against each other for survival, as long as the fight is FAIR. But it doesn't matter how FAIRLY we are judged in the arena. There will be the winners at the expense of the losers. If some groups rise it will be because other groups fall. It's still the same zero-sum game.

Democrats - or some new party that rises up out of the ashes - need to specifically reject the notion that people being FAIRLY pitted against each other for survival is the end goal.

The end goal should be to raise us all up. Together.

The zero-sum game that should be played is the one where the wealthy lose to everyone poorer. But that is not the game that Congress will allow to be played. At one time Congress passed the Sherman Anti-Trust Act which was targeted at the wealthy. That act hasn't been enforced in decades, which is extremely advantageous for the wealthy and harmful to the poor. There is a half trillion dollars in uncollected taxes from the wealthy each year. That is also to the advantage of the wealthy and disadvantage of the poor. Congress is not providing the IRS with more tax auditors to prevent this cheating. There is a consumer protection agency that does not enforce rules that cheat poor people who borrow. This cheating will make rich people even richer. All this cheating can go on for the advantage of the wealthy because the lower classes hate each other and fight with each other rather than with Congress and the Wealthy.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh good. You followed up with another 15 paragraphs that did no such thing.

Thanks for wasting my time twice in one morning.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ixStringJack, you have been given by 1kiki a lofty and inspiring explanation. Another, by Thomas Piketty: “without a strong egalitarian-internationalist platform, it is difficult to unite low-education, low-income voters from all origins within the same party.” Because I am crude, I’ll explain "identity politics" crudely: White trash think that dividing money equally with people they despise will mean far less money for white trash. But the white trash of America will never get the money they think they deserve unless Mexicans, niggers, queers and women also get a much bigger share of the wealth. I am in the sweet position of a wealthy person where I can tell the white trash that their understanding of how America works is erroneous. I don’t expect they will understand their error, but that’s great for me. The choice is between getting almost nothing more for anyone but the already wealthy or else everyone gets more, that is everyone except rich people. Wealthy people like me will get far less because they will be paying more taxes and paying higher minimum wages. You might have noticed that higher taxes and higher wages are not on the political agenda. That is a clever choice made by the wealthy – to never pay extra until they absolutely must.



lol. You're too funny Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Who is supposed to benefit from the existence of society? Corporations, or people? When you answer that question you'll be able to make a straightforward argument.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:46 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Who is supposed to benefit from the existence of society? Corporations, or people? When you answer that question you'll be able to make a straightforward argument.

Everybody benefits, but some have their benefits increasing every year, while others get approximately the same as they always have -- the smallest amount that they will accept before they leave the slums of Beverly Hills and start burning down the mansions of Brentwood.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Everybody benefits

I'll say everybody benefits from living in a society when, by group, everyone has the same lifespan. But that's not true, so - obviously - some people are being killed by society to benefit others.

In any case, we have strayed from the topic of identity politics. I see you don't have a rebuttal to my proposal.

Which to reiterate briefly is this: since identity politics accepts the current zero-sum game, one group can only advance at the expense of another. If the democrats or some other party is going to succeed at creating a broad coalition of voters, it needs to reject identity politics and advance the broad economic interests of people as a whole.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 23, 2018 7:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Everybody benefits

I'll say everybody benefits from living in a society when, by group, everyone has the same lifespan. But that's not true, so - obviously - some people are being killed by society to benefit others.

In any case, we have strayed from the topic of identity politics. I see you don't have a rebuttal to my proposal.

Which to reiterate briefly is this: since identity politics accepts the current zero-sum game, one group can only advance at the expense of another. If the democrats or some other party is going to succeed at creating a broad coalition of voters, it needs to reject identity politics and advance the broad economic interests of people as a whole.

1kiki, remember those accusations of you being a Russian Troll? I truly do not believe you are even living in North America, let alone that you are a voting American citizen. It is a pure form of identity politics, I can't identify you as anything other than a distraction. I do not trust you in any way, shape, or form. I can't even verify you are in any group, from anywhere on earth, let alone one that I wish to be in a coalition. Having said all that, here is Thomas Piketty, living in France and using his real name, and I would trust Piketty not to lie or deceive me when he writes about economics and politics:

Is the Two-Party System Doomed?

A new study shows us what observation should already have made clear: a messy restructuring of America's political parties is coming.

www.rollingstone.com/politics/taibbi-piketty-study-is-two-party-system
-doomed-w518585


Thomas Piketty's new essay, called Brahmin Left vs. Merchant Right, studied electoral trends in three Western countries – France, Britain and the U.S. – dating back to the 1940s.
http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Piketty2018.pdf
http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Piketty2018PoliticalConflict.pdf PowerPoint slide presentation only

Piketty writes that across all three countries, we've seen the evolution of the same trend. Fifty or sixty years ago, voting with the "left-wing" side (which he terms the socialist/labour/democratic parties) tended to be associated with low income and low education. Conversely, high education and high-income voters in all three countries voted right.

Over the years, however, the "left-wing" has become more and more associated with higher-education voters, giving rise to what he calls a "multiple-elite" party system. High-education elites now vote for the “left”, while high income/high-wealth elites still vote for the “right” (though less and less so).

Piketty puts numbers behind an observation that anyone covering recent American presidential elections could have made: That huge pluralities of voters on both sides of the aisle increasingly see both major parties as tools of the very rich.

His belief is that a major reordering of the political landscape is coming. It will be based less on traditional notions of right and left, and more along the lines of what he describes as "globalists (high-education, high-income) vs. nativists (low-education, low-income)."

. . .

By the beginning of the 2015-2016 presidential election campaign, all trends had worsened significantly compared to 2008. Income disparity was worse. Indebtedness was worse. Even political influence was now significantly more imbalanced, after the Citizens United decision of the Supreme Court. People were angrier about all of it.

A few establishment voices, like Jimmy Carter, pointed to these factors when asked to explain the rise of Trump. But most pundits dismissed the discontent over these things, which played right into Trump's hands.

Candidate Trump's solutions were all lies. But his stump presentation hammered home an unfortunately true observation that politicians in both parties had incentives not to care about them, because they were sponsored by the same mega-donors.

. . .

America, like pretty much everyplace else in the neoliberal world, is becoming a society split up into unequal camps. We have a small group of rich people and a much larger group, who may or may not be educated, but increasingly have either zero net worth, or close to it. www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/ (The Fed asked respondents how they would pay for a $400 emergency. The answer: 47 percent of respondents said that either they would cover the expense by borrowing or selling something, or they would not be able to come up with the $400 at all.)

The numbers are getting harder to ignore.

American politicians for decades have done an outstanding job of keeping low-income voters from seeing their shared economic dilemmas. The Republicans dating back to Goldwater and Nixon have kept voters transfixed with race hatred and fears about things like gun control, while Democrats have emphasized the Republican threat on social issues like reproductive rights and Social Security.

But having two parties sponsored by the same donors simply can't work in the long-term. The situation ends up being what a Colombian politician once deemed "two horses with the same owner."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 23, 2018 8:10 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Everybody benefits

I'll say everybody benefits from living in a society when, by group, everyone has the same lifespan. But that's not true, so - obviously - some people are being killed by society to benefit others.

In any case, we have strayed from the topic of identity politics. I see you don't have a rebuttal to my proposal.

Which to reiterate briefly is this: since identity politics accepts the current zero-sum game, one group can only advance at the expense of another. If the democrats or some other party is going to succeed at creating a broad coalition of voters, it needs to reject identity politics and advance the broad economic interests of people as a whole.

1kiki, remember those accusations of you being a Russian Troll? I truly do not believe you are even living in North America, let alone that you are a voting American citizen. It is a pure form of identity politics, I can't identify you as anything other than a distraction. I do not trust you in any way, shape, or form. I can't even verify you are in any group, from anywhere on earth, let alone one that I wish to be in a coalition.



How could anybody forget. Kiki and Sigs are probably called a Russian Troll by other trolls on this board almost everyday.

Quote:

Having said all that, here is Thomas Piketty, living in France and using his real name, and I would trust Piketty not to lie or deceive me when he writes about economics and politics:


Why do you trust this guy?

Why would this guy bother trying to lie or deceive you, personally, when he writes?

Quote:

Is the Two-Party System Doomed?



No. It's not. It's all just an illusion that's maintained to make the people believe they have any say in what goes on. There might be two parties that look different than they do today in the future. There might even be three or four. That's not going to make things change at all.

Our perception of what the Two-Party System is may be Doomed. But whatever form it morphs into will continue on as it always has.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 23, 2018 2:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

Is the Two-Party System Doomed?



No. It's not. It's all just an illusion that's maintained to make the people believe they have any say in what goes on. There might be two parties that look different than they do today in the future. There might even be three or four. That's not going to make things change at all.

Our perception of what the Two-Party System is may be Doomed. But whatever form it morphs into will continue on as it always has.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ixStringJoker, when the Federal government started in 1789, people like you had absolutely no say in picking George Washington or what the laws were. No slaves voted. No women voted. No men voted unless they owned significant property. We are still living in that exact same system with the same Constitution that George Washington signed, with a few minor adjustments. Why are you surprised that nobody will listen to you? The Constitution was never designed to make life comfortable for people like you or to give your life any meaning.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 23, 2018 2:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I truly do not believe you are even living in North America, let alone that you are a voting American citizen. It is a pure form of identity politics, I can't identify you as anything other than a distraction."

I started out fairly poor. By hard work, the luck of the genetic draw, and advantages like a poor to mediocre but not terrible schooling system, (though hobbled with a couple of significant disadvantages), I'm now relatively wealthy. Not like you of course, but far ahead the vast majority of Americans.

I do have one major difference, I believe, from most people in my position. I would give up everything I have - in a heartbeat, as they say - if it would guarantee a fair world. It won't of course, so I maintain my work schedule and my frugality. But my basic mindset is damn peculiar from other people with money, who become greedy, and suspicious of everyone, because they categorize everyone as trying to 'get' 'their stuff'. I don't.

And I want, more than anything else, to be able to give up 'my stuff' because we've achieved a fair world.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 23, 2018 2:53 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I truly do not believe you are even living in North America, let alone that you are a voting American citizen. It is a pure form of identity politics, I can't identify you as anything other than a distraction."

I started out fairly poor. By hard work, the luck of the genetic draw, and advantages like a poor to mediocre but not terrible schooling system, (though hobbled with a couple of significant disadvantages), I'm now relatively wealthy. Not like you of course, but far ahead the vast majority of Americans.

I do have one major difference, I believe, from most people in my position. I would give up everything I have - in a heartbeat, as they say - if it would guarantee a fair world. It won't of course, so I maintain my work schedule and my frugality. But my basic mindset is damn peculiar from other people with money, who become greedy, and suspicious of everyone, because they categorize everyone as trying to 'get' 'their stuff'. I don't.

And I want, more than anything else, to be able to give up 'my stuff' because we've achieved a fair world.

There is no need for "I would give up everything I have - in a heartbeat, as they say - if it would guarantee a fair world." I've got a list of minor changes, none of which will happen, to improve the functioning of the Federal Government:

An unsatisfying litany of heavy political lifts, most of which will fail, and each of which on its own would only mildly improve matters if adopted. We should abolish the filibuster and Electoral College and eliminate midterm elections by having the House, Senate, and president serve concurrent four-year terms. We should adopt the Fair Representation Act to end gerrymandering and move toward proportional representation. We need a robust right to vote in the Constitution, public financing for elections, and more transparency for corporate and nonprofit political spending.

These seem like ambitious reforms, and in all likelihood most of them will fail, leaving us in a perhaps mildly better version of the morass we’re in now. Even in the extraordinarily unlikely event we make them all happen, a number of core problems in our politics will remain. You can’t legislate negative partisanship away, and you can’t entirely prevent corporations and the wealthy from exerting some degree of oligarchic power without trampling on freedom of speech.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/4/23/17233952/trump-democracy-dec
ay-decline-coup-war-collapse-impeachment


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 23, 2018 3:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

White trash think that dividing money equally with people they despise will mean far less money for white trash. But the white trash of America will never get the money they think they deserve unless Mexicans, niggers, queers and women also get a much bigger share of the wealth.
It's not true that one group will prosper only if other groups prosper, which is the only argument in favor of identity politics.

That argument is the fallacy of identity politics. Through it we are being played by identity politics into an unstated zero-sum game. The notion is that it's OK to be pitted against each other for survival, as long as the fight is FAIR. But it doesn't matter how FAIRLY we are judged in the arena. There will be the winners at the expense of the losers. If some groups rise it will be because other groups fall. It's still the same zero-sum game.

Democrats - or some new party that rises up out of the ashes - need to specifically reject the notion that people being FAIRLY pitted against each other for survival is the end goal.

The end goal should be to raise us all up. Together.

The zero-sum game that should be played is the one where the wealthy lose to everyone poorer. But that is not the game that Congress will allow to be played.

Your endorsement of Communism and your redistribution fantasies are not shared by as many as you imagine.

Thankfully, for America's sake.

How did kiki get sucked into this thread?

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Monday, April 23, 2018 3:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
How did kiki get sucked into this thread?

I'm a registered democrat, from way back when, when democrats stood for the working class; and unlike the 'independent' person who started this thread 'for democrats only'.

But democrats have gone off the rails with identity politics, and with not looking after the 99%.

White people know that it's a zero sum system, which they previously won by virtue of their whiteness. They know that the more you promote 'other', the less will be reserved for whites. Racism (sexism, ageism, homophobia, etc) aren't as random and pointless as they seem. They're about economic security reserved for specific groups.

The author SECOND extensively quoted made the assertion that identity politics drives benefit for all. But that can't possibly be true in the system we have now, where my gain must be your loss. And if democrats hew to identity politics as a winning strategy, they will drive away the white vote which understands the outcome for whites of identity politics, and whose votes democrats can ill afford to lose.

The winning strategy is to call for opportunity for all who want it. And that means expanding the benefits of society past the current zero sum system.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 23, 2018 4:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

Is the Two-Party System Doomed?



No. It's not. It's all just an illusion that's maintained to make the people believe they have any say in what goes on. There might be two parties that look different than they do today in the future. There might even be three or four. That's not going to make things change at all.

Our perception of what the Two-Party System is may be Doomed. But whatever form it morphs into will continue on as it always has.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ixStringJoker, when the Federal government started in 1789, people like you had absolutely no say in picking George Washington or what the laws were. No slaves voted. No women voted. No men voted unless they owned significant property. We are still living in that exact same system with the same Constitution that George Washington signed, with a few minor adjustments. Why are you surprised that nobody will listen to you? The Constitution was never designed to make life comfortable for people like you or to give your life any meaning.



I'm not surprised that nobody will listen to me. Your voice is going to get drowned out when there's 7 billion other voices.

What I find funny is when anybody thinks that their own voice matters to anybody but themselves.

News flash....

It don't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 23, 2018 9:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Our perception of what the Two-Party System is may be Doomed. But whatever form it morphs into will continue on as it always has.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
6ixStringJoker, when the Federal government started in 1789, people like you had absolutely no say in picking George Washington or what the laws were. ... Why are you surprised that nobody will listen to you? The Constitution was never designed to make life comfortable for people like you or to give your life any meaning.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not surprised that nobody will listen to me. Your voice is going to get drowned out when there's 7 billion other voices.
What I find funny is when anybody thinks that their own voice matters to anybody but themselves.
News flash....
It don't.

I think there's a gap between being 'listened to' as in 'obeyed' which is what SECOND seems to be referring to, and 'listened to' as in 'heard' which you seem to be referring to.

No one is going to 'obey' any of the hoi polloi (which includes me, btw). And - probably - 7 billion people aren't going to 'hear' you either, unless you have something very relevant to say, at a time and in a manner that they understand. But you can be heard small scale.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 23, 2018 9:27 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


All I was saying was that nobody has any power when it comes to doing anything against whatever the Government ultimately wants. There is no two party system. Only the illusion of one.

Second turned that into just another opportunity to talk about how much money he supposedly has and how much better he is than everybody else because of it. Second is Second's favorite subject.

Whateves...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 23, 2018 9:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
All I was saying was that nobody has any power when it comes to doing anything against whatever the Government ultimately wants. There is no two party system. Only the illusion of one.

I guess it depends if we're intelligent or if we're mixed bacteria on a petri dish, on a mindless path to doom. If we're just mixed bacteria on a petri dish then some strains will temporarily overtake others and all will gobble up the food, excreting waste, until there's nothing left but a dead, waste-filled petri dish. But if we're intelligent we'll understand the problem, communicate the solution, use the power of numbers, and reverse what we're doing.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Tuesday, April 24, 2018 6:08 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
All I was saying was that nobody has any power when it comes to doing anything against whatever the Government ultimately wants. There is no two party system. Only the illusion of one.

I guess it depends if we're intelligent or if we're mixed bacteria on a petri dish, on a mindless path to doom. If we're just mixed bacteria on a petri dish then some strains will temporarily overtake others and all will gobble up the food, excreting waste, until there's nothing left but a dead, waste-filled petri dish. But if we're intelligent we'll understand the problem, communicate the solution, use the power of numbers, and reverse what we're doing.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?


I'm pretty sure the only reason we've never even accidentally been bumped into by any alien species is because none of them evolved to the point of any significant form of space travel before they sealed their own fate, or bad luck did it for them.

The ones that did, probably this:



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 24, 2018 8:49 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Your endorsement of Communism and your redistribution fantasies are not shared by as many as you imagine.

Thankfully, for America's sake.

How did kiki get sucked into this thread?

My other fantasy is that Texas never joined the Union. Long live the Republic of Texas! Long live Sam Houston, our first President! I would much prefer a national holiday celebrating Houston's Birthday to Washington's Birthday.

The reason for that fantasy is that Texas is trapped within the 1788 Constitution by the whims of the Senators from the other 49 states. Do you realize how difficult it is to get 67 people out of 100 to all agree on something substantial? About the only time is when it's war, and even then the Senators prefer not to vote on that because they don't want the blame when the war goes badly. Let the President of the United States take the blame years and years after most Senators cheered for more war.

The U.S. Senators from Texas can be pretty cavalier about war since most of the dead soldiers will be coming from 49 other states. But if Texas was a nation going to war, all the dead would be Texans. The whole war is completely paid for and fought by Texans. That would certainly cool the Texas President's enthusiasm for war. It also explains why U.S. Presidents are very enthusiastic about wars where most of the casualties and costs will be paid by 49 other states, states where the President was not born. U.S. Presidents are more cautious when their own children fight the war the President started. There is an editorial about that by the son of President Eisenhower. www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/opinion/28eisenhower.html

A short quote for those who need everything explained, but seldom click the links: As the time for my deployment to the Korean War approached, I discussed my intentions with my father, future President Eisenhower. We met at the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago, just after the Republican convention, and I explained my position. My father, as a professional officer himself, understood and accepted it. However, he had a firm condition: under no circumstances must I ever be captured. He would accept the risk of my being killed or wounded, but if the Chinese Communists or North Koreans ever took me prisoner, and threatened blackmail, he could be forced to resign the presidency. I agreed to that condition wholeheartedly. I would take my life before being captured.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 25, 2018 7:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
All I was saying was that nobody has any power when it comes to doing anything against whatever the Government ultimately wants. There is no two party system. Only the illusion of one.

I guess it depends if we're intelligent or if we're mixed bacteria on a petri dish, on a mindless path to doom. If we're just mixed bacteria on a petri dish then some strains will temporarily overtake others and all will gobble up the food, excreting waste, until there's nothing left but a dead, waste-filled petri dish. But if we're intelligent we'll understand the problem, communicate the solution, use the power of numbers, and reverse what we're doing.

Who is this "we" in your sentence that begins "But if we're intelligent"? That "we" can't be 6ixStringJack, because he has turned himself into a peasant. He will not "reverse what we're doing." In China, that "we" was people like The Most Wanted Man in China: My Journey from Scientist to Enemy of the State by Fang Lizhi
www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/05/26/fang-lizhi-heritage-great-man/

Why did communism grow deep roots and survive in China, while it withered and died in Russia? This is one of the central questions of modern history. A plausible answer to the question is that communism in China resonated with the two-thousand-year-old Confucian tradition of the wise ruler governing a harmonious society of peaceful citizens, while communism in Russia was undermined by the Russian tradition of ruthless tsars like Ivan the Terrible ruling a lawless society of oligarchs and serfs. (If you are comparing, the American tradition is too much like the Russian and not at all like the Chinese tradition.)

This answer may be valid, but the recently published autobiography of Fang Lizhi suggests a different answer to the question. Fang’s book is the personal story of a scientist whose life was shaped by Chinese history. From the evidence provided by this book, I am led to believe that communism survived in China because the brutal reeducation of the elite, by exile to coal mines and villages and forced sharing of hardships with dirt-poor workers and peasants, was to some extent a genuine reeducation. A great many members of the elite endured a period of gross abuse and humiliation, so severe as to drive many of them to suicide. Fang — who died in 2012 — describes four of these personal tragedies that he remembered vividly when he wrote his book thirty years later. But the majority of the victims, like Fang, survived the physical and mental battering, and returned to pursue careers as leaders of society. They became a privileged and corrupt class, but had acquired some indelible firsthand knowledge of the real needs and desires of the Chinese people.

In Russia there was much talk of reeducation of the elite, but the reality was different. In Russia the purges killed large numbers of the elite and condemned others to long years of imprisonment in the gulag archipelago, but those who survived were not re-educated. The intellectuals who survived in Russia remained isolated from the realities of working-class existence. The working class in the minds of the rulers of Russia remained an intellectual abstraction, detached from contact with reality. (The American ruling class is detached from the reality of working-class existence. Why would American rulers do more than the minimum to get elected? Doing more would lower the income of the rulers, cause extra work for the rulers, and it would all be for the benefit of working-class people the rulers don't identify with, except on election day. And America has always been this way. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would have taken better care of their slaves if slaves could vote, but the day after election the slaves have to return to the cotton fields while their owners return to the mansions. The owners refuse to live at the level of their slaves and refuse to work along side their slaves. The result is the owners have false beliefs about slavery. It is the same today where politicians opposed to raising the minimum wage, for one example, never try to live on the minimum wage.)

Unlike the majority of his contemporaries, Fang became a dissident. His reeducation was too successful, pushing him all the way to a final rejection of communism. But he was the exception who proves the rule. The rule is demonstrated by the majority of Chinese intellectuals who climbed back into the system after reeducation, not by the small minority who became dissidents. The historical fact is that reeducation generally succeeded in its avowed purpose. It produced a governing class that combined a formal acceptance of the regime’s Communist dogma with some understanding of the people it was governing.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 25, 2018 8:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Mick Mulvaney Tells It Like It Is
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/04/mick-mulvaney-tells-it-like-it-
is
/


Mick Mulvaney has been running the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau since November:

Since then, he has frozen all new investigations into crooked loans and slowed down existing inquiries by requiring employees to produce detailed justifications….But he wants Congress to go further and has urged it to wrest funding of the independent watchdog from the Federal Reserve, a move that would give lawmakers — and those with access to them — more influence on the bureau’s actions. On Tuesday, he implored the financial services industry to help support the legislative changes he has requested.

He concluded the speech, which included an appeal to diminish the bureau’s power, by describing the two types of people he was most responsive to as a congressman— constituents and lobbyists who contributed to his campaign.

Please proceed, Mr. Mulvaney:

“We had a hierarchy in my office in Congress,” Mr. Mulvaney, a former Republican lawmaker from South Carolina, told 1,300 bankers and lending industry officials at an American Bankers Association conference in Washington. “If you’re a lobbyist who never gave us money, I didn’t talk to you. If you’re a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you.”

That seems bracingly clear. Most politicians don’t have either the arrogance or the cluelessness it would take to admit this in public, but Mulvaney does. Kudos.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:41 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your endorsement of Communism and your redistribution fantasies are not shared by as many as you imagine.

Thankfully, for America's sake.

How did kiki get sucked into this thread?

My other fantasy is that Texas never joined the Union. Long live the Republic of Texas! Long live Sam Houston, our first President! I would much prefer a national holiday celebrating Houston's Birthday to Washington's Birthday.

The reason for that fantasy is that Texas is trapped within the 1788 Constitution by the whims of the Senators from the other 49 states. Do you realize how difficult it is to get 67 people out of 100 to all agree on something substantial? About the only time is when it's war, and even then the Senators prefer not to vote on that because they don't want the blame when the war goes badly. Let the President of the United States take the blame years and years after most Senators cheered for more war.

The U.S. Senators from Texas can be pretty cavalier about war since most of the dead soldiers will be coming from 49 other states. But if Texas was a nation going to war, all the dead would be Texans. The whole war is completely paid for and fought by Texans. That would certainly cool the Texas President's enthusiasm for war. It also explains why U.S. Presidents are very enthusiastic about wars where most of the casualties and costs will be paid by 49 other states, states where the President was not born. U.S. Presidents are more cautious when their own children fight the war the President started. There is an editorial about that by the son of President Eisenhower. www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/opinion/28eisenhower.html

A short quote for those who need everything explained, but seldom click the links: As the time for my deployment to the Korean War approached, I discussed my intentions with my father, future President Eisenhower. We met at the Blackstone Hotel in Chicago, just after the Republican convention, and I explained my position. My father, as a professional officer himself, understood and accepted it. However, he had a firm condition: under no circumstances must I ever be captured. He would accept the risk of my being killed or wounded, but if the Chinese Communists or North Koreans ever took me prisoner, and threatened blackmail, he could be forced to resign the presidency. I agreed to that condition wholeheartedly. I would take my life before being captured.

Golly, is this the delusion where President Eisenhower started the Korean War?
Your re-education shows impressive results.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
All I was saying was that nobody has any power when it comes to doing anything against whatever the Government ultimately wants. There is no two party system. Only the illusion of one.

I guess it depends if we're intelligent or if we're mixed bacteria on a petri dish, on a mindless path to doom. If we're just mixed bacteria on a petri dish then some strains will temporarily overtake others and all will gobble up the food, excreting waste, until there's nothing left but a dead, waste-filled petri dish. But if we're intelligent we'll understand the problem, communicate the solution, use the power of numbers, and reverse what we're doing.

Who is this "we" in your sentence that begins "But if we're intelligent"? That "we" can't be 6ixStringJack, because he has turned himself into a peasant. He will not "reverse what we're doing."



Second posts the above before posting the following story (emphasis on the underlined text):

Quote:

In China, that "we" was people like The Most Wanted Man in China: My Journey from Scientist to Enemy of the State by Fang Lizhi
www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/05/26/fang-lizhi-heritage-great-man/

Why did communism grow deep roots and survive in China, while it withered and died in Russia? This is one of the central questions of modern history. A plausible answer to the question is that communism in China resonated with the two-thousand-year-old Confucian tradition of the wise ruler governing a harmonious society of peaceful citizens, while communism in Russia was undermined by the Russian tradition of ruthless tsars like Ivan the Terrible ruling a lawless society of oligarchs and serfs. (If you are comparing, the American tradition is too much like the Russian and not at all like the Chinese tradition.)

This answer may be valid, but the recently published autobiography of Fang Lizhi suggests a different answer to the question. Fang’s book is the personal story of a scientist whose life was shaped by Chinese history. From the evidence provided by this book, I am led to believe that communism survived in China because the brutal reeducation of the elite, by exile to coal mines and villages and forced sharing of hardships with dirt-poor workers and peasants, was to some extent a genuine reeducation. A great many members of the elite endured a period of gross abuse and humiliation, so severe as to drive many of them to suicide. Fang — who died in 2012 — describes four of these personal tragedies that he remembered vividly when he wrote his book thirty years later. But the majority of the victims, like Fang, survived the physical and mental battering, and returned to pursue careers as leaders of society. They became a privileged and corrupt class, but had acquired some indelible firsthand knowledge of the real needs and desires of the Chinese people.

In Russia there was much talk of reeducation of the elite, but the reality was different. In Russia the purges killed large numbers of the elite and condemned others to long years of imprisonment in the gulag archipelago, but those who survived were not re-educated. The intellectuals who survived in Russia remained isolated from the realities of working-class existence. The working class in the minds of the rulers of Russia remained an intellectual abstraction, detached from contact with reality. (The American ruling class is detached from the reality of working-class existence. Why would American rulers do more than the minimum to get elected? Doing more would lower the income of the rulers, cause extra work for the rulers, and it would all be for the benefit of working-class people the rulers don't identify with, except on election day. And America has always been this way. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would have taken better care of their slaves if slaves could vote, but the day after election the slaves have to return to the cotton fields while their owners return to the mansions. The owners refuse to live at the level of their slaves and refuse to work along side their slaves. The result is the owners have false beliefs about slavery. It is the same today where politicians opposed to raising the minimum wage, for one example, never try to live on the minimum wage.)

Unlike the majority of his contemporaries, Fang became a dissident. His reeducation was too successful, pushing him all the way to a final rejection of communism. But he was the exception who proves the rule. The rule is demonstrated by the majority of Chinese intellectuals who climbed back into the system after reeducation, not by the small minority who became dissidents. The historical fact is that reeducation generally succeeded in its avowed purpose. It produced a governing class that combined a formal acceptance of the regime’s Communist dogma with some understanding of the people it was governing.



It sounds to me like if it were between you and I based off of your outlook here, that I would be the one much more likely to end up being a successful leader who understood the people.

You're completely out of touch with most Americans. As you say, I've turned myself into a pheasant. I work with the people. I see their struggles and share their burdens.

My arguments with JSF recently surrounding the DOW and Food Stamps are reflections of my own evolution of thought on these issues based off of my new perspective. I used to think that the DOW was great for everybody, until I realized that it is a catalyst for the loss of jobs and wages and benefits, and the money that investors make is off the backs of the American working class. I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for those who actually have to try to make ends meet on the same pay scale while also paying for housing and oftentimes even raising children on it.

Every day I'm walking miles in other people's shoes. All you do is sit atop your ivory tower, completely barricaded from the unwashed masses, and you dictate how other people should live their lives.

No empathy. No understanding. No appreciation.



There would be no 1% without the 99%.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 25, 2018 3:34 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Golly, is this the delusion where President Eisenhower started the Korean War?
Your re-education shows impressive results.

Instead of being captured in Korea, President Eisenhower asked his son to kill himself because Eisenhower would resign the Presidency if his son was captured alive. Since then, no President has told a son to commit suicide because no President had children actually fighting a war. That makes it so much easier for America to go to war when the President has no skin in the game. Maybe super-patriots Trump Jr. and Eric Trump should join the Army in protecting America? They go big game hunting in Africa, so why not join the Army and hunt the most dangerous big game animals in the world: humans. That would give their daddy something to think about before he starts threatening Fire and Fury the likes of which the World has never seen before.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, April 25, 2018 5:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Maybe super-patriots Trump Jr. and Eric Trump should join the Army in protecting America? They go big game hunting in Africa, so why not join the Army and hunt the most dangerous big game animals in the world: humans. That would give their daddy something to think about before he starts threatening Fire and Fury the likes of which the World has never seen before.



Yeah. Obama probably wasn't thinking about his daughters much when he was putting his rubber stamp on drone strikes that were killing women and children either.


I see you changed the subject without replying to me.

I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 7:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I see you changed the subject without replying to me.

I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote

{Second, you have:} No empathy. No understanding. No appreciation.

The one percenters do have a little bit of those qualities. But America is built on extraordinary selfishness. It is number one on the list. Even if Americans became extraordinarily empathetic (which they aren’t once you look at what percent of their income they give to charity) they will fight against helping anyone beneath them if Americans think helping will reduce their own income. It is pure and extreme American selfishness that Americans don’t want to acknowledge in themselves.
Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote

I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Quote:

A typical amount that people aspire to donate to charity ranges from 3 percent to 10 percent of their taxed income, and often is influenced by religious affiliation. Some branches of Christianity, for example, encourage their followers to donate 10 percent of their earnings to the church or to charities.
To bring the lower 50% of Americans up to the level of upper 50%, the median-priced American’s level, will cost a whole lot more than 10%. Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security. I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax. At least middle-class Americans pay the tax because they can imagine themselves being old someday, but they cannot imagine being poor. They really don’t want to help the poor. Americans want somebody, not themselves, to pay. Preferably the poor will pay for raising the poor out of poverty. That is not a practical way to end poverty, but people who are not poor are too selfish to admit it is impractical. They just refuse to pay more than 2 cents to do a job that will benefit somebody other than themselves.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 7:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


'Fox & Friends' Couldn't Get Trump Off The Phone

The three hosts of 'Fox & Friends' couldn't get a word in during the President's half-hour filibuster on live television. The facial expressions and body posture of the hosts towards the end of Trump's phone call was priceless.



Chris Hayes Talks About Trump's Surreal Fox & Friends Interview



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 8:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I see you changed the subject without replying to me.

I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote

{Second, you have:} No empathy. No understanding. No appreciation.

The one percenters do have a little bit of those qualities. But America is built on extraordinary selfishness. It is number one on the list. Even if Americans became extraordinarily empathetic (which they aren’t once you look at what percent of their income they give to charity) they will fight against helping anyone beneath them if Americans think helping will reduce their own income. It is pure and extreme American selfishness that Americans don’t want to acknowledge in themselves.
Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote

I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Quote:

A typical amount that people aspire to donate to charity ranges from 3 percent to 10 percent of their taxed income, and often is influenced by religious affiliation. Some branches of Christianity, for example, encourage their followers to donate 10 percent of their earnings to the church or to charities.
To bring the lower 50% of Americans up to the level of upper 50%, the median-priced American’s level, will cost a whole lot more than 10%. Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security. I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax. At least middle-class Americans pay the tax because they can imagine themselves being old someday, but they cannot imagine being poor. They really don’t want to help the poor. Americans want somebody, not themselves, to pay. Preferably the poor will pay for raising the poor out of poverty. That is not a practical way to end poverty, but people who are not poor are too selfish to admit it is impractical. They just refuse to pay more than 2 cents to do a job that will benefit somebody other than themselves.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

I'm working my way back to levels that are personally comfortable to me, and it will take time and effort, but I flirted on the fringes there for quite a while. I was on just about every form of government subsidies that a single man who isn't elderly or disabled could get.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I think I really did need them when I was drinking my life away. I was not in a sane state of mind for a long time. Someone on the outside looking in might just claim that the food stamps were enabling me to drink more, and while that might not be untrue, I think it did a lot more than that. They managed to keep me afloat while I was working out whatever issues I needed to work out and now I'm in a position where I'm not even eligible for them anymore. I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.

This is good. I intentionally pick up more hours when I can, and even though I don't make a lot, I'm putting money in the bank again, and since I've made it known that I want to be doing the heavy lifting when I'm there I get a pretty extreme workout every night without paying for a gym membership. I'm feeding myself well and I'm rocking a body I haven't seen since my mid 20's.



As I've said before, I'm in a much better financial position than most people who are on food stamps. No mortgage and wife/kids allows me to crawl back out of that hole with minimal effort. I realize that most people on them might not ever be able to get ahead enough where they can do without them.

With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 10:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death. . . .

America can already afford to change its mind about starving and freezing to death, but the majority voter opinion doesn't change. I checked about affordability: the GDP is $20 trillion. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP

No, we don’t spend $1 trillion on welfare each year
https://goo.gl/tgWHLs

Even if America did spend $1 trillion on welfare (it doesn’t) a trillion is only 5% of the GDP. To get everyone up into the middle class, much more ambitious than preventing everyone from freezing and starving to death, will cost much more than 5%. The people already in the middle class do not want to pay even to prevent starving and freezing. They sure as hell won't pay to raise everyone into middle class. The lower 50% of the Americans will continue struggling until the upper 50% will pay enough to end the struggle. But the upper 50% vote more than the lower 50%. As their incomes approach the upper 1%, voter participation approaches 100%. As their incomes approach the bottom 10%, voter participation approaches 0%. Bernie said poor people don't vote. Poor people are screwed by those voters in the middle class.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/24/bernie-s/berni
e-sanders-said-poor-people-dont-vote
/

What does the government spend most money on? It is not on poverty programs:
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts
/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
My arguments with JSF recently surrounding the DOW and Food Stamps are reflections of my own evolution of thought on these issues based off of my new perspective. I used to think that the DOW was great for everybody, until I realized that it is a catalyst for the loss of jobs and wages and benefits, and the money that investors make is off the backs of the American working class.

It was never really great for everybody, only for those who partook. The opportunity for partaking has been growing.
Quote:

I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them
Well that is interesting. I never thought that people on Food Stamps were worthless and undeserving. I can't even understand how you could honestly think that. I only objected to the cheats, the frauds, the thieves - which mostly accounted for the Food Stamp recipients who I had personally known about.
Quote:

until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for those who actually have to try to make ends meet on the same pay scale while also paying for housing and oftentimes even raising children on it.

No empathy. No understanding. No appreciation.

There would be no 1% without the 99%.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You also appear to ignore that the money that is invested is what provides jobs for the workers to work.
In that way, the workers are taking advantage of the investors, and in many cases are squandering away the funds that the investors are providing.

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Golly, is this the delusion where President Eisenhower started the Korean War?
Your re-education shows impressive results.

Instead of being captured in Korea, President Eisenhower asked his son to kill himself because Eisenhower would resign the Presidency if his son was captured alive.

You stated that this was after Eisenhower, as President, started the Korean War.
For those unclear about history, the Korean War from June 1950 to July 1953 altered the division of the Korean Peninsula between the Democratic half (Communists of North Korea) and the Republic half (Free and Liberated people of South Korea). For those who have heard of the Winter at the 38th Parallel, in America the 38th crosses the nation at approximately the bottom tip of Indiana, and the Port of San Francisco, including the middle of MO and KS, and the bottom half of CO, UT, NV.
Eisenhower attained the Presidency in 1953, and months later the Armistice was signed. Only in Libtard History was Eisenhower President in 1950.


On an entirely separate issue:
Quote:

Since then, no President has told a son to commit suicide because no President had children actually fighting a war. That makes it so much easier for America to go to war when the President has no skin in the game. Maybe super-patriots Trump Jr. and Eric Trump should join the Army in protecting America?

For someone who claims to have been Commissioned in the Marines, you seem to possess an amazing lack of Military History comprehension. Have your meds retarded your recall, or memory?

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Saturday, April 28, 2018 3:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I see you changed the subject without replying to me.
I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote
I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security.


Maybe they just resent being lied to. The Ponzi Scheme called Social Security was never presented, proposed, discussed, or enacted as a Tax. It was presented as a contribution to a fund which you, yourself would draw from, depending upon how much you contributed. Only Taxaholic Libtards and other Democraps would consider it a Tax, completely divorcing it from it's legislation.
Quote:

Quote:

I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax.

I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

If they don't like it they should return to their Mexico home, where it is warm.
Quote:

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.


With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death. . . .

America can already afford to change its mind about starving and freezing to death, but the majority voter opinion doesn't change. I checked about affordability: the GDP is $20 trillion. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP

No, we don’t spend $1 trillion on welfare each year
https://goo.gl/tgWHLs

Even if America did spend $1 trillion on welfare (it doesn’t) a trillion is only 5% of the GDP. To get everyone up into the middle class, much more ambitious than preventing everyone from freezing and starving to death, will cost much more than 5%. The people already in the middle class do not want to pay even to prevent starving and freezing. They sure as hell won't pay to raise everyone into middle class. The lower 50% of the Americans will continue struggling until the upper 50% will pay enough to end the struggle. But the upper 50% vote more than the lower 50%. As their incomes approach the upper 1%, voter participation approaches 100%. As their incomes approach the bottom 10%, voter participation approaches 0%. Bernie said poor people don't vote. Poor people are screwed by those voters in the middle class.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/24/bernie-s/berni
e-sanders-said-poor-people-dont-vote
/

What does the government spend most money on? It is not on poverty programs:
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts
/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



I didn't say anything about raising the poor to middle class.

If everyone is middle class then everyone is poor. I'm not advocating for Communism here. All I'm saying is that I'm definitely pro food stamps, and of all the things I maintain my right to bitch about where my taxes go, you won't hear me bitching about food stamps again.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:20 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.



This post doesn't really even deserve a reply since I have a long track record against supporting illegal aliens.

Though I don't support the idea of a physical wall that is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive form of "security theater", there are plenty of ways to make it so that nobody who wasn't a citizen would ever want to even be here. Most of them would be a very cheap addition to what the IRS already does, so it would start paying for itself from day one.

Should we make sure nobody starves that doesn't live here? Sure. We'll keep them well fed on their ride back home. Then when the laws are sufficiently changed and upheld so that nobody without a valid social security number can get free education and medical care or be able to make any wages here, they won't bother coming back.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 3:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.

This post doesn't really even deserve a reply since I have a long track record against supporting illegal aliens.

Then why are you endorsing Illegal Alien criminals (wastefully) receiving Food Stamps, diverting resources away from (nonwasteful) needy and legitimate American Citizens?

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 4:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I didn't.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 5:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Reposted after completing the post:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I see you changed the subject without replying to me.
I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote
I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security.


Maybe they just resent being lied to. The Ponzi Scheme called Social Security was never presented, proposed, discussed, or enacted as a Tax. It was presented as a contribution to a fund which you, yourself would draw from, depending upon how much you contributed. Only Taxaholic Libtards and other Democraps would consider it a Tax, completely divorcing it from it's legislation.
Quote:

Quote:

I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax.

I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

If they don't like it they should return to their Mexico home, where it is warm.
Quote:

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.


With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Maybe they just resent being lied to. The Ponzi Scheme called Social Security was never presented, proposed, discussed, or enacted as a Tax. It was presented as a contribution to a fund which you, yourself would draw from, depending upon how much you contributed. Only Taxaholic Libtards and other Democraps would consider it a Tax, completely divorcing it from it's legislation.

JewelStaiteFan, your life is hard because you lost touch with reality. It is a tax. What is FICA? www.ssa.gov/thirdparty/materials/pdfs/educators/What-is-FICA-Infograph
ic-EN-05-10297.pdf

FICA is a U.S. federal payroll tax. It stands for the Federal Insurance Contributions Act and is deducted from each paycheck. Your nine-digit number helps Social Security accurately record your covered wages or self-employment. As you work and pay FICA taxes, you earn credits for Social Security benefits.

How much is coming out of my check?
6.2% of your gross wages goes to Social Security tax. 1.45% of your gross wages goes to Medicare tax. Your employer matches these percentages for a total of 15.3%

An estimated 171 million workers are covered under Social Security. FICA helps fund both Social Security and Medicare programs, which provide benefits for retirees, the disabled, and children.

Think about FICA like this...
The money you pay in taxes is not held in a personal account for you to use when you get benefits. Today’s workers help pay for current retirees’ and other beneficiaries’ benefits. Any unused money goes to the Social Security trust funds to help secure today and tomorrow for you and your family.

More at www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fica.asp Read it, JewelStaiteFan. Learn what is real.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, April 29, 2018 8:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Reposted after completing the post:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I see you changed the subject without replying to me.
I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote
I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security.


Maybe they just resent being lied to. The Ponzi Scheme called Social Security was never presented, proposed, discussed, or enacted as a Tax. It was presented as a contribution to a fund which you, yourself would draw from, depending upon how much you contributed. Only Taxaholic Libtards and other Democraps would consider it a Tax, completely divorcing it from it's legislation.
Quote:

Quote:

I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax.

I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

If they don't like it they should return to their Mexico home, where it is warm.
Quote:

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.


With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.




I see what the problem is here.

You're saying the only people who live here without heat and food in this country are Mexicans.

I don't know... Maybe that's as racist as it is untrue?




As for your second time claiming that I'm an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, I'll repost about it since you seemed to have missed it the first time:

Quote:

Though I don't support the idea of a physical wall that is nothing more than a ridiculously expensive form of "security theater", there are plenty of ways to make it so that nobody who wasn't a citizen would ever want to even be here. Most of them would be a very cheap addition to what the IRS already does, so it would start paying for itself from day one.

Should we make sure nobody starves that doesn't live here? Sure. We'll keep them well fed on their ride back home. Then when the laws are sufficiently changed and upheld so that nobody without a valid social security number can get free education and medical care or be able to make any wages here, they won't bother coming back.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 30, 2018 5:05 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Reposted after completing the post:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I see you changed the subject without replying to me.
I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote
I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security.


Maybe they just resent being lied to. The Ponzi Scheme called Social Security was never presented, proposed, discussed, or enacted as a Tax. It was presented as a contribution to a fund which you, yourself would draw from, depending upon how much you contributed. Only Taxaholic Libtards and other Democraps would consider it a Tax, completely divorcing it from it's legislation.
Quote:

Quote:

I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax.

I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

If they don't like it they should return to their Mexico home, where it is warm.
Quote:

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.


With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.

I see what the problem is here.

You're saying the only people who live here without heat and food in this country are Mexicans.

I don't know... Maybe that's as racist as it is untrue?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

No, you are incorrect yet again. No, you do not see.
You keep claiming there is no waste, Fraud, abuse, meaning there are no Illegal Alien parasites consuming our resources.
I keep pointing out that Illegal Aliens fraudulently consume these resources, and for at least this portion of the Food Stamp program, this is waste, fraud, and abuse - diverting resources from legitimate needy Citizens.

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Monday, April 30, 2018 6:45 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

No, you are incorrect yet again. No, you do not see.
You keep claiming there is no waste, Fraud, abuse, meaning there are no Illegal Alien parasites consuming our resources.
I keep pointing out that Illegal Aliens fraudulently consume these resources, and for at least this portion of the Food Stamp program, this is waste, fraud, and abuse - diverting resources from legitimate needy Citizens.

As a voting Democrat, I think Trump should get his $25 billion to build the Texas/Mexico wall. Trump will do much more than $25 billion in damage if he shuts down the government, as he promised for September, should Congress not pass funding for the wall.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/mexico-border-wall-donald-trump-planning-mu
ch-will-cost-will
/

Trump has all the authority he needs to deport 12 million illegals. What is he waiting for? Why hasn't he done it already? Is it because Republicans don't want to work at the jobs the illegals do?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/16/news/economy/immigrant-workers-jobs/in
dex.html


White Republicans are always whining about that wall and are howling mad about the 12 million illegal aliens doing the low pay jobs of America. Give the Whites the wall and hire all the unemployed White Republicans for those low pay jobs so that the whining and howling will stop. Maybe when 12 million Republicans are working in those low pay jobs left by the illegals, the Republicans will support the Democrats' goal for a higher minimum wage? Seems very fair to me.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 30, 2018 7:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Reposted after completing the post:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I see you changed the subject without replying to me.
I'll consider that another checkmate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Quote:

6ixStringJack wrote
I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them until I made a less than livable wage and found new empathy for . . .

Americans at all levels are selfish as can be. It is not surprising that those at the top are as selfish as those in the middle and bottom. That is why Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.
Selfish Americans are NOT that generous. They already bitch endlessly about their taxes to support the old, you know Medicare and Social Security.


Maybe they just resent being lied to. The Ponzi Scheme called Social Security was never presented, proposed, discussed, or enacted as a Tax. It was presented as a contribution to a fund which you, yourself would draw from, depending upon how much you contributed. Only Taxaholic Libtards and other Democraps would consider it a Tax, completely divorcing it from it's legislation.
Quote:

Quote:

I remember 6ixStringJack has bitched about his FICA tax.

I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

If they don't like it they should return to their Mexico home, where it is warm.
Quote:

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.


With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.

I see what the problem is here.

You're saying the only people who live here without heat and food in this country are Mexicans.

I don't know... Maybe that's as racist as it is untrue?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

No, you are incorrect yet again. No, you do not see.
You keep claiming there is no waste, Fraud, abuse, meaning there are no Illegal Alien parasites consuming our resources.
I keep pointing out that Illegal Aliens fraudulently consume these resources, and for at least this portion of the Food Stamp program, this is waste, fraud, and abuse - diverting resources from legitimate needy Citizens.



You brought up illegals leaching off the system three times now. I've already said twice that I'm against this, and this will make it the third time. Are you stupid or something?

Do I have to re-quote my post a third fucking time about how we can keep them well fed for their trip back home as they're deported?

What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 30, 2018 8:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You brought up illegals leaching off the system three times now. I've already said twice that I'm against this, and this will make it the third time. Are you stupid or something?

Do I have to re-quote my post a third fucking time about how we can keep them well fed for their trip back home as they're deported?

What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really.

As those illegals are deported, there are good jobs opening in Michigan for 6ixStringJack: "So severe are looming shortages of workers in the skilled trades in Michigan, Republican Gov. Rick Snyder in February announced a $100 million proposal www.michigan.gov/ted/0,5863,7-336-85008---,00.html he likens to the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe after World War II. Using scholarships and stipends, among other things, it would prepare more people for the 811,000 expected job openings through 2024 in industries facing worker shortages, which Michigan officials say don’t require bachelor’s degrees and pay an average of $60,000 a year."
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/04/29/high-paying-jobs-go-begging-w
hile-high-school-grads-line-up-for-bachelors-degrees
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 30, 2018 1:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
No, you are incorrect yet again. No, you do not see.
You keep claiming there is no waste, Fraud, abuse, meaning there are no Illegal Alien parasites consuming our resources.
I keep pointing out that Illegal Aliens fraudulently consume these resources, and for at least this portion of the Food Stamp program, this is waste, fraud, and abuse - diverting resources from legitimate needy Citizens.

As a voting Democrat, I think Trump should get his $25 billion to build the Texas/Mexico wall. Trump will do much more than $25 billion in damage if he shuts down the government, as he promised for September, should Congress not pass funding for the wall.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/mexico-border-wall-donald-trump-planning-mu
ch-will-cost-will
/

Trump has all the authority he needs to deport 12 million illegals. What is he waiting for? Why hasn't he done it already? Is it because Republicans don't want to work at the jobs the illegals do?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/16/news/economy/immigrant-workers-jobs/in
dex.html


White Republicans are always whining about that wall and are howling mad about the 12 million illegal aliens doing the low pay jobs of America. Give the Whites the wall and hire all the unemployed White Republicans for those low pay jobs so that the whining and howling will stop. Maybe when 12 million Republicans are working in those low pay jobs left by the illegals, the Republicans will support the Democrats' goal for a higher minimum wage? Seems very fair to me.

If you are ill today, I'm sorry to hear of it. Get well soon.

You have posted a set of comments which almost entirely make sense.
How many Illegal Aliens have been deported under Trump? Although MSM has been downplaying these successes, I still keep hearing about large scale raids all over the place. I thought there was mention of prioritizing the worst criminals and repeat deportees for targeting. It sounds like Sanctuary Cities are effectively corralling many of these, making it easier to round them up, so that's mostly where I hear the best raids occur. Once the worst offenders are processed, do you know of a central database listing the locations of all the remaining illegals? I am not familiar with the process, but once past the border area, are not some legal proceedings navigated before deportation? What is the maximum volume this system can handle? Is there a method of mass deportation which could bypass the process - I have not heard of that. At the maximum volume rate of processing, how long would it take to report 12 million?
I greatly sounds like steady progress is being made, and targeting the worst offenders seems reasonable.

The Law of Supply and Demand will likely take effect before a Minimum Wage Increase is needed, which would cause the Minimum Wage worker to make less, lose buying power.

Other than that, your points sound sensible - leading us to infer you are ill.

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Monday, April 30, 2018 1:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Reposted after completing the post:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I used to think that people on Food Stamps were worthless and didn't deserve them . . .



Food Stamps are part of the agriculture bill – the program has to be sold as helping the farming states make money. The idea can’t be sold as exclusively for helping the hungry.

I can't really argue any of what you posted here. Sure, it's all generalizations and there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but not enough to argue any points you made.

I think everybody should be poor once in their lives.

There's two things to learn when you've lived that way for a while that you can't just explain to somebody because they just wouldn't actually get it unless they had to really live with it for a period of time.

1. Basic things like food and heat during the winter should not be a problem for anybody to acquire. We're supposedly the greatest nation the world has ever seen and yet we still have people starving and freezing to death.

If they don't like it they should return to their Mexico home, where it is warm.
Quote:

2. You've got to really have problems (mental or otherwise) if you actually want to stay on government programs for any prolonged period of time.

Aside from the fact that the Government wants to know everything about you while you're on them, it's actually a lot of effort to get them and maintain them over time. You also have to purposefully curb your work hours to maintain them, by doing things like actively turning down extra shifts.

I make too much money hourly to get them even if I were to intentionally curb my hours, because you can't get them unless you work 20 hours per week.


With all the terrible spending choices our government makes with our tax dollars, you'll never hear me bitching again about food stamps. I don't envy any person who makes so little that they can be eligible to get them, and I'm happy to know that a part of my taxes go to help feed them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Such an advocate for Illegal Alien parasites, you are.

I see what the problem is here.

You're saying the only people who live here without heat and food in this country are Mexicans.

I don't know... Maybe that's as racist as it is untrue?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

No, you are incorrect yet again. No, you do not see.
You keep claiming there is no waste, Fraud, abuse, meaning there are no Illegal Alien parasites consuming our resources.
I keep pointing out that Illegal Aliens fraudulently consume these resources, and for at least this portion of the Food Stamp program, this is waste, fraud, and abuse - diverting resources from legitimate needy Citizens.

You brought up illegals leaching off the system three times now. I've already said twice that I'm against this, and this will make it the third time. Are you stupid or something?

Do I have to re-quote my post a third fucking time about how we can keep them well fed for their trip back home as they're deported?

What the fuck is wrong with you man? Really.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Is this you saying, for the first time, that there is waste, fraud, abuse in the Food Stamp program?

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