REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Monday, September 24, 2018 08:25
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Monday, April 30, 2018 4:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
No, you are incorrect yet again. No, you do not see.
You keep claiming there is no waste, Fraud, abuse, meaning there are no Illegal Alien parasites consuming our resources.
I keep pointing out that Illegal Aliens fraudulently consume these resources, and for at least this portion of the Food Stamp program, this is waste, fraud, and abuse - diverting resources from legitimate needy Citizens.

As a voting Democrat, I think Trump should get his $25 billion to build the Texas/Mexico wall. Trump will do much more than $25 billion in damage if he shuts down the government, as he promised for September, should Congress not pass funding for the wall.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/mexico-border-wall-donald-trump-planning-mu
ch-will-cost-will
/

Trump has all the authority he needs to deport 12 million illegals. What is he waiting for? Why hasn't he done it already? Is it because Republicans don't want to work at the jobs the illegals do?
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/16/news/economy/immigrant-workers-jobs/in
dex.html


White Republicans are always whining about that wall and are howling mad about the 12 million illegal aliens doing the low pay jobs of America. Give the Whites the wall and hire all the unemployed White Republicans for those low pay jobs so that the whining and howling will stop. Maybe when 12 million Republicans are working in those low pay jobs left by the illegals, the Republicans will support the Democrats' goal for a higher minimum wage? Seems very fair to me.

If you are ill today, I'm sorry to hear of it. Get well soon.

You have posted a set of comments which almost entirely make sense.
How many Illegal Aliens have been deported under Trump? Although MSM has been downplaying these successes, I still keep hearing about large scale raids all over the place. I thought there was mention of prioritizing the worst criminals and repeat deportees for targeting. It sounds like Sanctuary Cities are effectively corralling many of these, making it easier to round them up, so that's mostly where I hear the best raids occur. Once the worst offenders are processed, do you know of a central database listing the locations of all the remaining illegals? I am not familiar with the process, but once past the border area, are not some legal proceedings navigated before deportation? What is the maximum volume this system can handle? Is there a method of mass deportation which could bypass the process - I have not heard of that. At the maximum volume rate of processing, how long would it take to report 12 million?
I greatly sounds like steady progress is being made, and targeting the worst offenders seems reasonable.

The Law of Supply and Demand will likely take effect before a Minimum Wage Increase is needed, which would cause the Minimum Wage worker to make less, lose buying power.

Other than that, your points sound sensible - leading us to infer you are ill.

MSM just reported that the 1,500 riot thugs of the Obama/Hilliary/Soros-San Diego Pueblo Sin Fronteros caravan from Honduras have already clogged the system. Some cannot currently be processed because the system is already at maximum capacity. And that is just to turn away from the border the Fake Asylum thugs waving the Honduran Flag.
Apparently they also brought some women and children to be human shields.

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Monday, April 30, 2018 4:58 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

If you are ill today, I'm sorry to hear of it. Get well soon.

You have posted a set of comments which almost entirely make sense.
How many Illegal Aliens have been deported under Trump? Although MSM has been downplaying these successes, I still keep hearing about large scale raids all over the place. I thought there was mention of prioritizing the worst criminals and repeat deportees for targeting. It sounds like Sanctuary Cities are effectively corralling many of these, making it easier to round them up, so that's mostly where I hear the best raids occur. Once the worst offenders are processed, do you know of a central database listing the locations of all the remaining illegals? I am not familiar with the process, but once past the border area, are not some legal proceedings navigated before deportation? What is the maximum volume this system can handle? Is there a method of mass deportation which could bypass the process - I have not heard of that. At the maximum volume rate of processing, how long would it take to report 12 million?
I greatly sounds like steady progress is being made, and targeting the worst offenders seems reasonable.

The Law of Supply and Demand will likely take effect before a Minimum Wage Increase is needed, which would cause the Minimum Wage worker to make less, lose buying power.

Other than that, your points sound sensible - leading us to infer you are ill.

ICE conducted 226,119 removals. If there are 12 million illegals divided by 226,119, it will take 53 years to remove most of the illegals. I would say Trump is not really trying very hard. I do not think he is serious. Except it is worse than 53 years to remove all the illegals because most of the 226,119 that get deported have only been in the US for a few months. Trump is not making much of a dent in the long-term illegals. It might take 100 years for Trump to deport 12 million illegals at the rate he is working. I think Trump is doing more bullshitting than deporting. The guy is Fake News.

www.ice.gov/removal-statistics/2017


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 30, 2018 6:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is this you saying, for the first time, that there is waste, fraud, abuse in the Food Stamp program?



I never said there wasn't waste and fraud. I simply said that the benefits of the program outweigh the cons, and the fact that there is a foodstamp program is one of the only things keeping you from getting burglarized or held up at knife or gunpoint for money for food.

I've said that to weed out people who shouldn't be on it would likely cost more taxpayer dollars to figure out than just paying people because at some point the cost of the additional oversight would be more than the benefits themselves.

I've also said four times now that I stand adamantly against illegal aliens and how they leach off the system. This however, is not a food stamp problem. It is a much larger problem that needs to be taken care of at the core. Cut the inflow of illegal alien leaches to the system by immediately making it impossible for them to get any free government programs, including foodstamps, education and helth care, and by enforcing tax laws we already have, making it impossible for them to actually make any money here to send home and they will go back to their country of their own volition, and no more will want to come here.

Then what seems to be your largest issue with the food stamp program becomes moot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 30, 2018 6:11 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
ICE conducted 226,119 removals. If there are 12 million illegals divided by 226,119, it will take 53 years to remove most of the illegals. I would say Trump is not really trying very hard. I do not think he is serious. Except it is worse than 53 years to remove all the illegals because most of the 226,119 that get deported have only been in the US for a few months. Trump is not making much of a dent in the long-term illegals. It might take 100 years for Trump to deport 12 million illegals at the rate he is working. I think Trump is doing more bullshitting than deporting. The guy is Fake News.



Deportation is just as stupid and a waste of money as building a wall is.

If somebody were serious about keeping illegals out they would make it impossible for them to make any money here and send it home through tax laws and absolutely destroying any companies found hiring them under the table.

Couple that with immediately cutting illegals, even those born here by illegal parents, from any government benefits and they will go back home on their own dime, with no cost to the American taxpayer.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 30, 2018 6:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is this you saying, for the first time, that there is waste, fraud, abuse in the Food Stamp program?



I never said there wasn't waste and fraud. I simply said that the benefits of the program outweigh the cons, and the fact that there is a foodstamp program is one of the only things keeping you from getting burglarized or held up at knife or gunpoint for money for food.

I've said that to weed out people who shouldn't be on it would likely cost more taxpayer dollars to figure out than just paying people because at some point the cost of the additional oversight would be more than the benefits themselves.

I've also said four times now that I stand adamantly against illegal aliens and how they leach off the system. This however, is not a food stamp problem. It is a much larger problem that needs to be taken care of at the core. Cut the inflow of illegal alien leaches to the system by immediately making it impossible for them to get any free government programs, including foodstamps, education and helth care, and by enforcing tax laws we already have, making it impossible for them to actually make any money here to send home and they will go back to their country of their own volition, and no more will want to come here.

Then what seems to be your largest issue with the food stamp program becomes moot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If 1% are legitimately needy and over 14% are participating, you claim that weeding out the 93% of fraudulent claims would cost more than paying for the 93%?
That doesn't sound right.

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Monday, April 30, 2018 7:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"If 1% are legitimately needy and over 14% are participating" cite?

I'm curious what the actual numbers are.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 30, 2018 7:48 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
ICE conducted 226,119 removals. If there are 12 million illegals divided by 226,119, it will take 53 years to remove most of the illegals. I would say Trump is not really trying very hard. I do not think he is serious. Except it is worse than 53 years to remove all the illegals because most of the 226,119 that get deported have only been in the US for a few months. Trump is not making much of a dent in the long-term illegals. It might take 100 years for Trump to deport 12 million illegals at the rate he is working. I think Trump is doing more bullshitting than deporting. The guy is Fake News.



Deportation is just as stupid and a waste of money as building a wall is.

If somebody were serious about keeping illegals out they would make it impossible for them to make any money here and send it home through tax laws and absolutely destroying any companies found hiring them under the table.

Couple that with immediately cutting illegals, even those born here by illegal parents, from any government benefits and they will go back home on their own dime, with no cost to the American taxpayer.

Always worried about the cost and never worry about results. That will guarantee failure.

The cost of the Texas/Mexico wall is $25 billion. And that is not every year. It is one time cost.

The cost to remove 12 million illegal aliens at $2,000 each is $24 billion.

The total is $49 billion. That is a small price to get Republicans to finally shut up.

It is smaller than Trump’s increase in Pentagon spending by $74 billion to a new world record defense budget of $716 billion for fiscal 2019.

The $74 billion defense increase is EVERY STINKING YEAR while the $49 billion is one time only.

The $74 billion defense increase will not have anything you can point to and say “this is what my money bought” while the $49 billion will buy you a thousand mile long wall and 12 million new jobs for legal citizens and there will be 12 million empty apartments and houses where the illegals had once lived. There will be cheaper rent for everybody still living in the USA.

And don't forget all those new American jobs openings the illegals graciously left behind for people like 6ixStringJack.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-defense-20180212-story.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 30, 2018 9:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"If 1% are legitimately needy and over 14% are participating" cite?

I'm curious what the actual numbers are.




Yeah. These are numbers that have been quoted many times now without anything to back them up. Probably heard Rush Limbaugh say it once or something.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 30, 2018 9:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
ICE conducted 226,119 removals. If there are 12 million illegals divided by 226,119, it will take 53 years to remove most of the illegals. I would say Trump is not really trying very hard. I do not think he is serious. Except it is worse than 53 years to remove all the illegals because most of the 226,119 that get deported have only been in the US for a few months. Trump is not making much of a dent in the long-term illegals. It might take 100 years for Trump to deport 12 million illegals at the rate he is working. I think Trump is doing more bullshitting than deporting. The guy is Fake News.



Deportation is just as stupid and a waste of money as building a wall is.

If somebody were serious about keeping illegals out they would make it impossible for them to make any money here and send it home through tax laws and absolutely destroying any companies found hiring them under the table.

Couple that with immediately cutting illegals, even those born here by illegal parents, from any government benefits and they will go back home on their own dime, with no cost to the American taxpayer.

Always worried about the cost and never worry about results. That will guarantee failure.

The cost of the Texas/Mexico wall is $25 billion. And that is not every year. It is one time cost.

The cost to remove 12 million illegal aliens at $2,000 each is $24 billion.

The total is $49 billion. That is a small price to get Republicans to finally shut up.

It is smaller than Trump’s increase in Pentagon spending by $74 billion to a new world record defense budget of $716 billion for fiscal 2019.

The $74 billion defense increase is EVERY STINKING YEAR while the $49 billion is one time only.

The $74 billion defense increase will not have anything you can point to and say “this is what my money bought” while the $49 billion will buy you a thousand mile long wall and 12 million new jobs for legal citizens and there will be 12 million empty apartments and houses where the illegals had once lived. There will be cheaper rent for everybody still living in the USA.

And don't forget all those new American jobs openings the illegals graciously left behind for people like 6ixStringJack.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-defense-20180212-story.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




That's a lot of waste of money on something that is just there for show, even if it is one time. It won't actually keep anybody out if there's no reason other than a stupid wall that is for show blocking them.

Take away any and all incentives for somebody to even want to be here illegally and they simply won't come, even if you had no wall and a 3,000 mile long red carpet rolled out along the border.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 30, 2018 9:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"If 1% are legitimately needy and over 14% are participating" cite?

I'm curious what the actual numbers are.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

The report from the Food Stamp program uses the figures 1% and 14.4%.
I am not aware of a better suited authority. Who might provide more accurate data?

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Monday, April 30, 2018 9:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
ICE conducted 226,119 removals. If there are 12 million illegals divided by 226,119, it will take 53 years to remove most of the illegals. I would say Trump is not really trying very hard. I do not think he is serious. Except it is worse than 53 years to remove all the illegals because most of the 226,119 that get deported have only been in the US for a few months. Trump is not making much of a dent in the long-term illegals. It might take 100 years for Trump to deport 12 million illegals at the rate he is working. I think Trump is doing more bullshitting than deporting. The guy is Fake News.

Deportation is just as stupid and a waste of money as building a wall is.

If somebody were serious about keeping illegals out they would make it impossible for them to make any money here and send it home through tax laws and absolutely destroying any companies found hiring them under the table.

Couple that with immediately cutting illegals, even those born here by illegal parents, from any government benefits and they will go back home on their own dime, with no cost to the American taxpayer.

Always worried about the cost and never worry about results. That will guarantee failure.

The cost of the Texas/Mexico wall is $25 billion. And that is not every year. It is one time cost.

The cost to remove 12 million illegal aliens at $2,000 each is $24 billion.

The total is $49 billion. That is a small price to get Republicans to finally shut up.

It is smaller than Trump’s increase in Pentagon spending by $74 billion to a new world record defense budget of $716 billion for fiscal 2019.

The $74 billion defense increase is EVERY STINKING YEAR while the $49 billion is one time only.

The $74 billion defense increase will not have anything you can point to and say “this is what my money bought” while the $49 billion will buy you a thousand mile long wall and 12 million new jobs for legal citizens and there will be 12 million empty apartments and houses where the illegals had once lived. There will be cheaper rent for everybody still living in the USA.

And don't forget all those new American jobs openings the illegals graciously left behind for people like 6ixStringJack.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-trump-defense-20180212-story.html

That's a lot of waste of money on something that is just there for show, even if it is one time. It won't actually keep anybody out if there's no reason other than a stupid wall that is for show blocking them.

Take away any and all incentives for somebody to even want to be here illegally and they simply won't come, even if you had no wall and a 3,000 mile long red carpet rolled out along the border.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I just realized that some posters here were not born when that showy Berlin Wall existed. Just for show.

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Monday, April 30, 2018 9:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The report from the Food Stamp program uses the figures 1% and 14.4%.
I am not aware of a better suited authority. Who might provide more accurate data?

Do you have a link? I looked over a few pages for the word 'report' but didn't find anything.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 30, 2018 10:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The report from the Food Stamp program uses the figures 1% and 14.4%.
I am not aware of a better suited authority. Who might provide more accurate data?

Do you have a link? I looked over a few pages for the word 'report' but didn't find anything.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

I will look again, but with dread.
The last time you had a similar ask was with Holder's report to Congress. I had read it so many times it started putting me to sleep each time. It should have been easy to find again, but I haven't.

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Monday, April 30, 2018 10:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Sadly, that's always been true of search engines. They tend to bubble up the most relevant answers of the moment. But when the moment passes, so too do the answers. Whether you find it or not, I do appreciate the look-see.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, April 30, 2018 10:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I just realized that some posters here were not born when that showy Berlin Wall existed. Just for show.



I'm assuming this was sarcasm.

I was in grade school when the Berlin Wall was torn down.

Big difference between the Berlin wall and some joke wall beteween us and Mexico there, friend.

We're not going to have a bunch of armed guards on either side shooting anybody trying to get across it. Maybe in your Conservitard wet dreams that would happen, but it NEVER would.


The wall would be strictly for show, and would be completely meaningless without mass deportations immediately following it, and hard core enforced laws making it impossible for anybody without a social security number to work or to get any benefits immediately afterward. Something else that is not going to happen.


The wall is a fucking joke.


I can only imagine somebody like drunk idiot me from 2016 thinking it was a good idea. I spent about 10 hours per week back then not drunk out of my skull or sleeping it off.

What's you're excuse now?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 2:52 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Sadly, that's always been true of search engines. They tend to bubble up the most relevant answers of the moment. But when the moment passes, so too do the answers. Whether you find it or not, I do appreciate the look-see.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

From what I recall, that particular item was from around 2013. But the plethora of controversial Holder appearances before Congress blots out the desired result. I can't even find a list of his appearances. I should try Congressional Quarterly.

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 7:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I just realized that some posters here were not born when that showy Berlin Wall existed. Just for show.



I'm assuming this was sarcasm.

I was in grade school when the Berlin Wall was torn down.

Big difference between the Berlin wall and some joke wall beteween us and Mexico there, friend.

We're not going to have a bunch of armed guards on either side shooting anybody trying to get across it. Maybe in your Conservitard wet dreams that would happen, but it NEVER would.


The wall would be strictly for show, and would be completely meaningless without mass deportations immediately following it, and hard core enforced laws making it impossible for anybody without a social security number to work or to get any benefits immediately afterward. Something else that is not going to happen.


The wall is a fucking joke.


I can only imagine somebody like drunk idiot me from 2016 thinking it was a good idea. I spent about 10 hours per week back then not drunk out of my skull or sleeping it off.

What's you're excuse now?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

What is the cost to prove that the wall is a joke and, take note of the "and", that deporting all 12 million illegal aliens would NOT be a benefit for the USA? It would cost $150.

Divide the total cost by the total population:
$49,000,000,000 / 327,636,000 = $149.56

It is an experiment that is well worth running to prove a point. The USA has run similar expensive experiments in the past, spending trillions of dollars on H-bombs that cannot be used. That is trillions on wars that cannot be won, if you want to be technical. The USA is no safer than countries that have spent far less. Even countries that spent nothing on H-bombs are just as safe.

I say that Trump should deport the illegals and build the wall. Then we would have tangible proof that it either does or does not make the USA better. It is the same kind of proof the USA got from building H-bombs. And at least we will be able to see the Texas/Mexico wall and see all the empty apartments where illegals had once lived and see what our $150 per citizen was spent upon. When did you last see proof that all the $trillions were spent "usefully" on H-bombs? It has been decades since the last mushroom cloud. For all we know, the actual mightiness of the USA's nuclear arsenal is smaller than that of France's arsenal, but the USA's cost is a thousand times larger. The USA's nuclear arsenal costs more every year than the one time cost for deporting all illegals plus the price for the Texas/Mexico wall.
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nuclear-arsenal/u-s-nuclear-arsenal-to-
cost-1-2-trillion-over-next-30-years-cbo-idUSKBN1D030E


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 10:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


When "immigrants' rights" activists get all hysterical about the wall, saying that it "won't work" and will make absolutely "no difference" to illegal immigration, two questions immediately come to mind:

1) If physical barriers make no difference at all, how about if we build bridges across the border? Just lots and lots of bridges and roads making illegal immigration easier? Would they advocate for that? If they would, then that undercuts their argument about walls.

2) If it "won't work", why get so upset about it in the first place? Why fight something so hard that's irrelevant in the first place? And if they're so patriotically concerned about "waste", why not focus on things that are a lot more wasteful, like the F-35 or our endless wars in the .... well, everywhere?

People are so illogical.

Quote:

I say that Trump should deport the illegals and build the wall. Then we would have tangible proof that it either does or does not make the USA better. It is the same kind of proof the USA got from building H-bombs. And at least we will be able to see the Texas/Mexico wall and see all the empty apartments where illegals had once lived and see what our $150 per citizen was spent upon.
I agree.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 11:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

It is an experiment that is well worth running to prove a point. The USA has run similar expensive experiments in the past, spending trillions of dollars on H-bombs that cannot be used. That is trillions on wars that cannot be won, if you want to be technical.



Our nuclear arsenal needed to be created since Russia would be the only government with one at the time if we hadn't done it. I imagine the world would be a much different place in that alternate universe, and the globes there would be unrecognizable to us here.

There's a difference between passively and actively making use of something. To say that the money spent on the arsenal was a complete waste is overlooking the potential passive power those nukes represented. This wasn't money spent on wars that could be won. It was money spent in hopes of ensuring these wars never begin in the first place.

Granted, things get a little fuzzy when you throw brainwashed ideologues with no sense of self preservation into the mix.

Quote:

The USA is no safer than countries that have spent far less. Even countries that spent nothing on H-bombs are just as safe.


This is true, kind of. Having at least two super powers with these arsenals pretty much ensures that they won't ever actually be used for fear of mutually ensured destruction.

It stands to reason that there are going to be a lot of small countries and third world shitholes that benefit from this without having had to invest in the tech.
Quote:



I say that Trump should deport the illegals and build the wall. Then we would have tangible proof that it either does or does not make the USA better. It is the same kind of proof the USA got from building H-bombs. And at least we will be able to see the Texas/Mexico wall and see all the empty apartments where illegals had once lived and see what our $150 per citizen was spent upon. When did you last see proof that all the $trillions were spent "usefully" on H-bombs? It has been decades since the last mushroom cloud. For all we know, the actual mightiness of the USA's nuclear arsenal is smaller than that of France's arsenal, but the USA's cost is a thousand times larger. The USA's nuclear arsenal costs more every year than the one time cost for deporting all illegals plus the price for the Texas/Mexico wall.



The fact that it has been decades since the last mushroom cloud, coupled with the fact that we're not all saying the Russian Pledge of Allegiance every morning in school is proof enough that the money was well spent.

What you're suggesting here is just throwing massive amounts of money away on something that won't work, and I suspect by your attitude about it that you believe it will fail as much as I do and you want a Republican President to be the one to waste all of that money that could be much better spent fixing our infrastructure or stimulating our economy in some other meaningful way.


Because of the tech available to us today, there is no reason for a physical barrier. Tweak a few existing laws and enforce the laws we already have today and the issue becomes moot.

This is strictly an ROI issue. Nobody is going to want to come here illegally if we don't give them any beneficial reasons to do so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 12:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
When "immigrants' rights" activists get all hysterical about the wall, saying that it "won't work" and will make absolutely "no difference" to illegal immigration, two questions immediately come to mind:



I don't believe that you think I'm an Immigrants Rights Activist, but I do believe that the wall will be a complete waste of money. You can't compare it to the Berlin Wall like JSF tried to do simply because we're not going to have armed soldiers on either side actively shooting anybody who comes close to it.

Quote:

1) If physical barriers make no difference at all, how about if we build bridges across the border? Just lots and lots of bridges and roads making illegal immigration easier? Would they advocate for that? If they would, then that undercuts their argument about walls.


As I said in the other posts, use the legal means we already largely have at our disposal and use against our own citizens to ensure that illegals can make no benefit by crossing the border. No government assistance, healthcare or education for anyone without a Social Security number for starters. Give advance notice of a year that it will be done, and then actively destroy any companies that are caught paying illegals under the table. Make a few examples out of them and nobody is going to dare hire any illegal help again.

With no government benefits or aid to collect, and no prospects of finding any paying work, you could build a yellow brick road connecting every major Mexican city to every major American city with a billboard saying "Welcome to America" every mile and nobody would come here.

Quote:

2) If it "won't work", why get so upset about it in the first place? Why fight something so hard that's irrelevant in the first place? And if they're so patriotically concerned about "waste", why not focus on things that are a lot more wasteful, like the F-35 or our endless wars in the .... well, everywhere?


I'm not fighting it. At this point, who really gives a shit. Government is as Government does. They're going to do whatever the hell they want to do and nobody is going to ask me what my opinion is about it first.

True... The wars are a problem. But they've been a problem for half of my life now, and there doesn't seem to be any Administration that is going to curb them. GOP started them. Democrats maintained and expanded them. The Wildcard Nationalist currently in the seat doesn't seem interested in stopping them anymore now that he's elected.

I don't think that means we need to just go and waste a bunch more money on something that isn't actually going to be beneficial to anybody, just because.

Quote:

People are so illogical.


I agree.

Quote:

I say that Trump should deport the illegals and build the wall. Then we would have tangible proof that it either does or does not make the USA better. It is the same kind of proof the USA got from building H-bombs. And at least we will be able to see the Texas/Mexico wall and see all the empty apartments where illegals had once lived and see what our $150 per citizen was spent upon.


Quote:

I agree.


I disagree.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 5:38 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


My first problem with The Wall is the idea is Trump's. If you need help *decoding* that I can't help you.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1) If physical barriers make no difference at all,



Hyperbole alert: Who said that? "no problem at all" ? Of course any physical barrier would impede travel, but could they just go around? Would the wall that can be built (budget allocated) do what it's proponents say it would do, or would the structure be only half what is required and therefore in the end a huge waste?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
2) If it "won't work", why get so upset about it in the first place? Why fight something so hard that's irrelevant in the first place? And if they're so patriotically concerned about "waste", why not focus on things that are a lot more wasteful, like the F-35 or our endless wars in the .... well, everywhere?
People are so illogical.



Logic alert: Can't people do all of those things? Or should we only object to one thing at a time?

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 6:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
My first problem with The Wall is the idea is Trump's.



LOL... no it isn't.

If you meant to say that you don't support anything that he's in favor of, then that would be accurate.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 8:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"If 1% are legitimately needy and over 14% are participating" cite?

I'm curious what the actual numbers are.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

Copied from the other thread, Unemployment Rate Facts:

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Here is a linky to the Food Stamp data, recipients and expenditures. Apparently Libtards have been feverishly denying any and all numbers in this report, since it reflects badly upon Obama.

https://fns-prod.azureedge.net/sites/default/files/pd/SNAPsummary.pdf

Obama got a late start in 2009, but kicked off 2017 with plenty of waste. From the years of Obamanomics 2009-2017, adding up all the participants comes to 391,601,000 participant-years. Accounting for 34% of the entire lifetime of the freeloading program.

The grand total of Food Stamp participants before Obama was only 749,396,000 from 1969-2008 (40 years).

The 16 years prior to Obamanomics (1993-2008) totalled 380,853,000.

The first 34 years of Food Stamps (1969-1992) summed to 368,543,000.


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Tuesday, May 1, 2018 9:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Where does your 1% number keep coming from? I've never seen that percentage anywhere except for when you've said it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, May 2, 2018 6:25 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
LOL... no it isn't.



LOL



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Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:

It is an experiment that is well worth running to prove a point. The USA has run similar expensive experiments in the past, spending trillions of dollars on H-bombs that cannot be used. That is trillions on wars that cannot be won, if you want to be technical.



Our nuclear arsenal needed to be created since Russia would be the only government with one at the time if we hadn't done it. I imagine the world would be a much different place in that alternate universe, and the globes there would be unrecognizable to us here.

There's a difference between passively and actively making use of something. To say that the money spent on the arsenal was a complete waste is overlooking the potential passive power those nukes represented. This wasn't money spent on wars that could be won. It was money spent in hopes of ensuring these wars never begin in the first place.

Granted, things get a little fuzzy when you throw brainwashed ideologues with no sense of self preservation into the mix.

Quote:

The USA is no safer than countries that have spent far less. Even countries that spent nothing on H-bombs are just as safe.


This is true, kind of. Having at least two super powers with these arsenals pretty much ensures that they won't ever actually be used for fear of mutually ensured destruction.

It stands to reason that there are going to be a lot of small countries and third world shitholes that benefit from this without having had to invest in the tech.
Quote:



I say that Trump should deport the illegals and build the wall. Then we would have tangible proof that it either does or does not make the USA better. It is the same kind of proof the USA got from building H-bombs. And at least we will be able to see the Texas/Mexico wall and see all the empty apartments where illegals had once lived and see what our $150 per citizen was spent upon. When did you last see proof that all the $trillions were spent "usefully" on H-bombs? It has been decades since the last mushroom cloud. For all we know, the actual mightiness of the USA's nuclear arsenal is smaller than that of France's arsenal, but the USA's cost is a thousand times larger. The USA's nuclear arsenal costs more every year than the one time cost for deporting all illegals plus the price for the Texas/Mexico wall.



The fact that it has been decades since the last mushroom cloud, coupled with the fact that we're not all saying the Russian Pledge of Allegiance every morning in school is proof enough that the money was well spent.

What you're suggesting here is just throwing massive amounts of money away on something that won't work, and I suspect by your attitude about it that you believe it will fail as much as I do and you want a Republican President to be the one to waste all of that money that could be much better spent fixing our infrastructure or stimulating our economy in some other meaningful way.


Because of the tech available to us today, there is no reason for a physical barrier. Tweak a few existing laws and enforce the laws we already have today and the issue becomes moot.

This is strictly an ROI issue. Nobody is going to want to come here illegally if we don't give them any beneficial reasons to do so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

When Russia and the USA got to the 100,000th megaton H-bomb, the world wasn’t any safer than it was at the 1,000th kiloton atom-bomb. But the bomb-makers were much-much richer. It is all about making the most money possible. The 99,000 extra and unusable bombs did not give the USA more prestige and didn’t intimidate Russia into not destroying the USA. It was the first few hundred bombs providing all the prestige and intimidation needed. The Republican voters, one of these days, will realize that their GOP Congressmen are conning them into paying for more H-bombs, by a factor of 100, then are needed to intimidate the Russians.

Have you heard of Curtis LeMay? Russia knew him and his plans for Russia before it had the bomb. To LeMay, demolishing everything was how you win a war. Towards this aim, LeMay delivered the first SAC Emergency War Plan in March 1949 which called for dropping 133 atomic bombs on 70 cities in the USSR within 30 days.

See, 6ixStringJack, LeMay didn’t need 50,000 nukes to do the job. Blabbermouth Republican Congressmen made sure the Russians knew that the US had plans to murder them.

In 1949, LeMay predicted that World War III would last no longer than 30 days. Air power strategists called this type of pre-emptive strike "killing a nation". Remember, this is all before Russia had a bomb. The US had a plan to kill Russia, a plan that Russia could not stop if Truman had given the order. Lucky for Russia, Truman's speechwriters couldn’t plausibly justify a mass murder spree and still have Truman win the next election.

The Manhattan Project employed more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$ 2 billion (equivalent to US$ 23 billion in 2007 dollars). For the money the US got 3 explosions plus 12 spare bombs. Think of how much prestige America had in newspapers all over the world, including Russia, for such a small amount of money, especially compared to the $trillions America would expend between then and 2018.

Some of the brighter scientists quit because the Manhattan Project lost its purpose after it was known that Germany had no nukes and had never started an A-bomb building project. General Curtis LeMay couldn’t care about any higher purpose than nuking 100,000 noncombatant Japanese children. Not one of them was Hitler or a bomb-making German physicist or even spoke German. LeMay, the fat loudmouth, cigar-chomping jackass, had lost his fucking mind and launched the world into the expensive, dangerous mess it is in today. Certain idiot Presidents left LeMay in control of America’s nukes for the next twenty years.

The Russians didn’t need spies to know that Curtis “Babykiller” LeMay was in charge and wanted the Ruskies dead. In the late 1960s America was killing millions of civilians in Vietnam, without nukes, but by then LeMay was retired. His political career was launched: running with George Wallace for the White House. The majority of voters weren't convinced by crazy LeMay's message that War is Peace, but millions did vote for LeMay.
www.ctbto.org/nuclear-testing/history-of-nuclear-testing/manhattan-pro
ject
/


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Wednesday, May 2, 2018 8:51 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump had casually blabbed about intelligence from overseas allies on two occasions last year. The most important one was when he regaled the Russian ambassador about the intel that led to an alert concerning a potential laptop bomb being smuggled onto an airline. A reader writes to tell me that as bad as this episode was, it was actually far worse:

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/05/has-israel-stopped-sharing-inte
l-with-the-trump-administration
/

The US obtained this intelligence from Israel. What is now known to the general public is that Israel had succeeded in placing a listening device in an ISIS safe house deep in Syria, at great risk, and was listening in on everything ISIS was planning from that location. Trump revealed this intelligence to Kislyak and Lavarov during that infamous Oval Office meeting in which he also bragged about firing James Comey the day before. His revelation essentially blew the intelligence operation; the listening device the Israelis had placed went dead shortly after.

A few weeks ago I heard Ronen Bergman speak to a group of about 50 people, mostly Israelis. He is Israel’s leading national security journalist, and recently published an incredible book called Rise and Kill First, a history of the Israeli security services. He wouldn’t get into details about what Trump told the Russians during that Oval Office meeting, but he said it was “much worse” than what is “publicly” known, and that Trump essentially revealed the “crown jewels” of Israeli intelligence operational methods in Syria. He said the Israeli intelligence community is absolutely livid; has come to the conclusion that the administration is “chaotic” and absolutely cannot be trusted with any sensitive information; and will not reveal to the Americans any information unless it doesn’t care whether such information is publicly known. He said this is an absolute sea change from all past administrations both Republican and Democratic. Before this, Israel has always shared without hesitation intelligence information with the US that it doesn’t share with any other country.

When my right-wing Republican Jewish Coalition friends tell me how great Trump is for Israel, it absolutely makes my blood boil, because it’s so demonstrably untrue.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, May 2, 2018 3:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Trump had casually blabbed about intelligence from overseas allies on two occasions last year. The most important one was when he regaled the Russian ambassador about the intel that led to an alert concerning a potential laptop bomb being smuggled onto an airline. A reader writes to tell me that as bad as this episode was, it was actually far worse:

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/05/has-israel-stopped-sharing-inte
l-with-the-trump-administration
/

The US obtained this intelligence from Israel. What is now known to the general public is that Israel had succeeded in placing a listening device in an ISIS safe house deep in Syria, at great risk, and was listening in on everything ISIS was planning from that location. Trump revealed this intelligence to Kislyak and Lavarov during that infamous Oval Office meeting in which he also bragged about firing James Comey the day before. His revelation essentially blew the intelligence operation; the listening device the Israelis had placed went dead shortly after.

A few weeks ago I heard Ronen Bergman speak to a group of about 50 people, mostly Israelis. He is Israel’s leading national security journalist, and recently published an incredible book called Rise and Kill First, a history of the Israeli security services. He wouldn’t get into details about what Trump told the Russians during that Oval Office meeting, but he said it was “much worse” than what is “publicly” known, and that Trump essentially revealed the “crown jewels” of Israeli intelligence operational methods in Syria. He said the Israeli intelligence community is absolutely livid; has come to the conclusion that the administration is “chaotic” and absolutely cannot be trusted with any sensitive information; and will not reveal to the Americans any information unless it doesn’t care whether such information is publicly known. He said this is an absolute sea change from all past administrations both Republican and Democratic. Before this, Israel has always shared without hesitation intelligence information with the US that it doesn’t share with any other country.

When my right-wing Republican Jewish Coalition friends tell me how great Trump is for Israel, it absolutely makes my blood boil, because it’s so demonstrably untrue.

Are you still ill? Get well soon.
You posting facts and reason is a bit unsettling.

Of course it was widespread concern that Trump had no muzzle and no clue about National Security. But at least he didn't pull a Hilliary and commit Treason by revealing National Security Secrets on Prime Time nationwide broadcast TV during their Debate.
To be very clear, I am glad Israel is no longer sharing Intelligence with us, at least until we get a decent White House resident. I hope they get all they can from us on the fronts of political, economic, military, etc.

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Thursday, May 3, 2018 8:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Are you still ill? Get well soon.
You posting facts and reason is a bit unsettling.

Of course it was widespread concern that Trump had no muzzle and no clue about National Security. But at least he didn't pull a Hilliary and commit Treason by revealing National Security Secrets on Prime Time nationwide broadcast TV during their Debate.
To be very clear, I am glad Israel is no longer sharing Intelligence with us, at least until we get a decent White House resident. I hope they get all they can from us on the fronts of political, economic, military, etc.

JewelStaiteFan, since when did you decide Trump is indecent?

What did Trump do to change your mind?

I can't find any Texas Republican voters that share your low opinion of Trump.

As a very specific example, I can't find any Trump voters who have a problem about him doing this: "Then again, no previous president would have led foreign countries to believe that their receipt of security assistance was dependent on them seeking to actively obstruct an ongoing criminal investigation." It is perfectly okay for the Trump voters I am familiar with.
www.vox.com/2018/5/2/17311190/ukraine-mueller-trump-manafort-javelin

I am impressed that Trump has 41% of the country approving of him, although I am not impressed that he has switched many people from neutral toward him to disapprove.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

JewelStaiteFan, could you expand upon your comment "Hilliary commits Treason by revealing National Security Secrets on Prime Time nationwide broadcast TV during their Debate"? Because all I can find is that is false. It is an untruth. A fake report: www.snopes.com/fact-check/homeland-security-indicts-hillary/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, May 3, 2018 9:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:

It is an experiment that is well worth running to prove a point. The USA has run similar expensive experiments in the past, spending trillions of dollars on H-bombs that cannot be used. That is trillions on wars that cannot be won, if you want to be technical.



Our nuclear arsenal needed to be created since Russia would be the only government with one at the time if we hadn't done it. I imagine the world would be a much different place in that alternate universe, and the globes there would be unrecognizable to us here.

There's a difference between passively and actively making use of something. To say that the money spent on the arsenal was a complete waste is overlooking the potential passive power those nukes represented. This wasn't money spent on wars that could be won. It was money spent in hopes of ensuring these wars never begin in the first place.

Granted, things get a little fuzzy when you throw brainwashed ideologues with no sense of self preservation into the mix.

Quote:

The USA is no safer than countries that have spent far less. Even countries that spent nothing on H-bombs are just as safe.


This is true, kind of. Having at least two super powers with these arsenals pretty much ensures that they won't ever actually be used for fear of mutually ensured destruction.

It stands to reason that there are going to be a lot of small countries and third world shitholes that benefit from this without having had to invest in the tech. . . .

6ixStringJack, I am still waiting for you to acknowledge that the USA did not need to build 50,000 nukes costing $trillions (I am ignoring that the $trillions are in some wealthy person's portfolio; he doesn't see it as wasted). The USA could have stopped after building only hundreds. Even the USA acknowledged that most of that money was wasted, since it has dismantled the majority of everything it built. It was as if the USA purchased 50,000 new luxury cars (rather than H-bombs), drove two of them on a trip to Japan, dumped a hundred more cars into the lagoon on Bikini Atoll in the Pacific, and then sent most of the luxury cars to the crushing machine for the scrap metal.

The Chinese stopped building H-bombs and A-bombs after building only hundreds. More would have been a waste of money because the bombs will be exploding on the same planet that China is located. The Chinese know that fallout from their own bombs and nuclear winter will cross the border into China. It really made no sense in China to bomb all of the thousands of Trump golf courses and then breath the radioactive dust in Beijing. Instead, bomb Trump Tower and the White House and Mar-a-Lago and the job is done.
www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, May 3, 2018 11:08 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
6ixStringJack, I am still waiting for you to acknowledge that the USA did not need to build 50,000 nukes costing $trillions (I am ignoring that the $trillions are in some wealthy person's portfolio; he doesn't see it as wasted). The USA could have stopped after building only hundreds.



Sure. I'll acknowledge this. I've never been a warhawk, I don't trust our government at all, and I'm always bashing them for inappropriate use of taxpayer dollars. This fits all three.

That's not your original argument though. You're moving the goalposts again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, May 3, 2018 2:04 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Sure. I'll acknowledge this. I've never been a warhawk, I don't trust our government at all, and I'm always bashing them for inappropriate use of taxpayer dollars. This fits all three.

That's not your original argument though. You're moving the goalposts again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Where the fuck did you get the idea you can believable claim to be no warhawk and still voted for Trump? He was saying he would nuke ISIS while he was running for President. I, on the other hand, am a real warhawk, but I'd never vote for a fucking idiot who would kill the wrong people out of stupidity: Middle East civilian deaths have soared under Trump. And the media mostly shrug.

The numbers are shocking — or at least they should be.

2017 was the deadliest year for civilian casualties in Iraq and Syria, with as many as 6,000 people killed in strikes conducted by the U.S.-led coalition, according to the watchdog group Airwars.

That is an increase of more than 200 percent over the previous year.

It is far more if you add in countries like Yemen, Afghanistan, Somalia and many others.

But the subject, considered a stain on President Barack Obama’s legacy even by many of his supporters, has almost dropped off the map.

Obsessed with the seemingly daily updates in the Stormy Daniels story or the impeachment potential of the Russia investigation, the American media is paying even less attention now to a topic it never focused on with much zeal.

“The media has unfortunately been so distracted by the chaos of the Trump administration and allegations of the president’s collusion with Russia that it’s neglected to look closely at the things he’s actually doing already,” said Daphne Eviatar, a director of Amnesty International USA.

That includes, she said, “hugely expanding the use of drone and airstrikes, including outside of war zones, and increasing civilian casualties in the process.”

Trump, of course, was a candidate who promised to “bomb the shit out of ’em [Islamic State],” and has since declared victory over the terrorist organization, while continuing to drop bombs.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Where the fuck did you get the idea you can believable claim to be no warhawk and still voted for Trump?



LOL. Hillary was actively trying to ram her 16" black strap-on cock up Putin's ass on live TV.

I didn't have any problems with the Russians at that time, and I still don't.


Muslims, however, have been a problem and continue to be one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, May 4, 2018 7:34 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Where the fuck did you get the idea you can believable claim to be no warhawk and still voted for Trump?



LOL. Hillary was actively trying to ram her 16" black strap-on cock up Putin's ass on live TV.

I didn't have any problems with the Russians at that time, and I still don't.

Muslims, however, have been a problem and continue to be one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

There are many Americans, like 6ix, who express themselves in the same way about Hillary and Muslims. Trump is one. Trump is hopeless, but it has never been worth my effort to convince Trump voters, and 6ix was one, that they live in an alternate reality. In my opinion anybody is nuts who believed Trump. That holds true even if they eventually turn against him because he beat the truth about himself into their head with too many repetitions of "No Collusion" and "Believe Me". There is a nice little article about the deranged everyday-in-every-way thinking of the majority: How America Lost Its Mind.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231
/

How widespread is this promiscuous devotion to the untrue? How many Americans now inhabit alternate realities? Any given survey of beliefs is only a sketch of what people in general really think. But reams of survey research from the past 20 years reveal a rough, useful census of American credulity and delusion. By my reckoning, the solidly reality-based are a minority, maybe a third of us but almost certainly fewer than half. Only a third of us, for instance, don’t believe that the tale of creation in Genesis is the word of God. Only a third strongly disbelieve in telepathy and ghosts. Two-thirds of Americans believe that “angels and demons are active in the world.” More than half say they’re absolutely certain heaven exists, and just as many are sure of the existence of a personal God—not a vague force or universal spirit or higher power, but some guy. A third of us believe not only that global warming is no big deal but that it’s a hoax perpetrated by scientists, the government, and journalists. A third believe that our earliest ancestors were humans just like us; that the government has, in league with the pharmaceutical industry, hidden evidence of natural cancer cures; that extraterrestrials have visited or are visiting Earth. Almost a quarter believe that vaccines cause autism, and that Donald Trump won the popular vote in 2016. A quarter believe that our previous president maybe or definitely was (or is?) the anti-Christ. According to a survey by Public Policy Polling, 15 percent believe that the “media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals,” and another 15 percent think that’s possible. A quarter of Americans believe in witches. Remarkably, the same fraction, or maybe less, believes that the Bible consists mainly of legends and fables—the same proportion that believes U.S. officials were complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 4, 2018 7:55 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

How widespread is this promiscuous devotion to the untrue? How many Americans now inhabit alternate realities? Any given survey of beliefs is only a sketch of what people in general really think. But reams of survey research from the past 20 years reveal a rough, useful census of American credulity and delusion. By my reckoning, the solidly reality-based are a minority, maybe a third of us but almost certainly fewer than half. Only a third of us, for instance, don’t believe that the tale of creation in Genesis is the word of God. Only a third strongly disbelieve in telepathy and ghosts. Two-thirds of Americans believe that “angels and demons are active in the world.” More than half say they’re absolutely certain heaven exists, and just as many are sure of the existence of a personal God—not a vague force or universal spirit or higher power, but some guy. A third of us believe not only that global warming is no big deal but that it’s a hoax perpetrated by scientists, the government, and journalists. A third believe that our earliest ancestors were humans just like us; that the government has, in league with the pharmaceutical industry, hidden evidence of natural cancer cures; that extraterrestrials have visited or are visiting Earth. Almost a quarter believe that vaccines cause autism, and that Donald Trump won the popular vote in 2016. A quarter believe that our previous president maybe or definitely was (or is?) the anti-Christ. According to a survey by Public Policy Polling, 15 percent believe that the “media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals,” and another 15 percent think that’s possible. A quarter of Americans believe in witches. Remarkably, the same fraction, or maybe less, believes that the Bible consists mainly of legends and fables—the same proportion that believes U.S. officials were complicit in the 9/11 attacks.



Which is why I say we get the government we deserve, and that one of the most telling truths about The Trump presidency, is that the majority of people in this country are pinheads.


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Friday, May 4, 2018 2:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Where the fuck did you get the idea you can believable claim to be no warhawk and still voted for Trump?



LOL. Hillary was actively trying to ram her 16" black strap-on cock up Putin's ass on live TV.

I didn't have any problems with the Russians at that time, and I still don't.

Muslims, however, have been a problem and continue to be one.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

There are many Americans, like 6ix, who express themselves in the same way about Hillary and Muslims. Trump is one. Trump is hopeless, but it has never been worth my effort to convince Trump voters, and 6ix was one, that they live in an alternate reality. In my opinion anybody is nuts who believed Trump. That holds true even if they eventually turn against him because he beat the truth about himself into their head with too many repetitions of "No Collusion" and "Believe Me". There is a nice little article about the deranged everyday-in-every-way thinking of the majority: How America Lost Its Mind.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231
/

How widespread is this promiscuous devotion to the untrue? How many Americans now inhabit alternate realities? Any given survey of beliefs is only a sketch of what people in general really think. But reams of survey research from the past 20 years reveal a rough, useful census of American credulity and delusion. By my reckoning, the solidly reality-based are a minority, maybe a third of us but almost certainly fewer than half. Only a third of us, for instance, don’t believe that the tale of creation in Genesis is the word of God. Only a third strongly disbelieve in telepathy and ghosts. Two-thirds of Americans believe that “angels and demons are active in the world.” More than half say they’re absolutely certain heaven exists, and just as many are sure of the existence of a personal God—not a vague force or universal spirit or higher power, but some guy. A third of us believe not only that global warming is no big deal but that it’s a hoax perpetrated by scientists, the government, and journalists. A third believe that our earliest ancestors were humans just like us; that the government has, in league with the pharmaceutical industry, hidden evidence of natural cancer cures; that extraterrestrials have visited or are visiting Earth. Almost a quarter believe that vaccines cause autism, and that Donald Trump won the popular vote in 2016. A quarter believe that our previous president maybe or definitely was (or is?) the anti-Christ. According to a survey by Public Policy Polling, 15 percent believe that the “media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals,” and another 15 percent think that’s possible. A quarter of Americans believe in witches. Remarkably, the same fraction, or maybe less, believes that the Bible consists mainly of legends and fables—the same proportion that believes U.S. officials were complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



And you live in the alternate reality where you can immediately judge whether a person is Good or Evil simply by if they are Democrat or Republican.

Simple lives for simple minds.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 3:40 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
There are many Americans, like 6ix, who express themselves in the same way about Hillary and Muslims. Trump is one. Trump is hopeless, but it has never been worth my effort to convince Trump voters, and 6ix was one, that they live in an alternate reality. In my opinion anybody is nuts who believed Trump. That holds true even if they eventually turn against him because he beat the truth about himself into their head with too many repetitions of "No Collusion" and "Believe Me". There is a nice little article about the deranged everyday-in-every-way thinking of the majority: How America Lost Its Mind.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231
/

How widespread is this promiscuous devotion to the untrue? How many Americans now inhabit alternate realities? Any given survey of beliefs is only a sketch of what people in general really think. But reams of survey research from the past 20 years reveal a rough, useful census of American credulity and delusion. By my reckoning, the solidly reality-based are a minority, maybe a third of us but almost certainly fewer than half. Only a third of us, for instance, don’t believe that the tale of creation in Genesis is the word of God. Only a third strongly disbelieve in telepathy and ghosts. Two-thirds of Americans believe that “angels and demons are active in the world.” More than half say they’re absolutely certain heaven exists, and just as many are sure of the existence of a personal God—not a vague force or universal spirit or higher power, but some guy. A third of us believe not only that global warming is no big deal but that it’s a hoax perpetrated by scientists, the government, and journalists. A third believe that our earliest ancestors were humans just like us; that the government has, in league with the pharmaceutical industry, hidden evidence of natural cancer cures; that extraterrestrials have visited or are visiting Earth. Almost a quarter believe that vaccines cause autism, and that Donald Trump won the popular vote in 2016. A quarter believe that our previous president maybe or definitely was (or is?) the anti-Christ. According to a survey by Public Policy Polling, 15 percent believe that the “media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals,” and another 15 percent think that’s possible. A quarter of Americans believe in witches. Remarkably, the same fraction, or maybe less, believes that the Bible consists mainly of legends and fables—the same proportion that believes U.S. officials were complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

This puts me solidly in the category of the reality-based.

And yet, I voted against Hillary.

And watching the Deep State go to work against the result of the democratic vote, I was right. Anyone who is with them, as Hilliary was, is not for us.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 5:49 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Are you still ill? Get well soon.
You posting facts and reason is a bit unsettling.

Of course it was widespread concern that Trump had no muzzle and no clue about National Security. But at least he didn't pull a Hilliary and commit Treason by revealing National Security Secrets on Prime Time nationwide broadcast TV during their Debate.
To be very clear, I am glad Israel is no longer sharing Intelligence with us, at least until we get a decent White House resident. I hope they get all they can from us on the fronts of political, economic, military, etc.

JewelStaiteFan, since when did you decide Trump is indecent?

What did Trump do to change your mind?

I can't find any Texas Republican voters that share your low opinion of Trump.

JewelStaiteFan, could you expand upon your comment "Hilliary commits Treason by revealing National Security Secrets on Prime Time nationwide broadcast TV during their Debate"? Because all I can find is that is false. It is an untruth. A fake report: www.snopes.com/fact-check/homeland-security-indicts-hillary/

I decided Trump was substandard sometime before the 2016 Primary in my state.
I have not changed my mind about Trump.
If looking for Trump doubters, check with Conservatives.
Hilliary's Treason? You must be joking. Anybody who imagines you are serious can easily answer.

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 8:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

This puts me solidly in the category of the reality-based.

And yet, I voted against Hillary.

And watching the Deep State go to work against the result of the democratic vote, I was right. Anyone who is with them, as Hilliary was, is not for us.

Voting against Hillary is perfectly rational for either a Russian troll or a Ralph Nader, who is both anti-GOP & anti-Dem. Hillary is an annoyance for Putin, while Trump is his "friend". But I see that Trump is reactivating the 2nd Fleet to face Russian threat. It's another waste of Defense Dept money so that Trump can give the illusion that he is not really being blackmailed by Putin.
https://news.usni.org/2018/05/04/navy-reestablishes-2nd-fleet-plan-cal
ls-for-250-person-command-in-norfolk


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 8:27 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

And you live in the alternate reality where you can immediately judge whether a person is Good or Evil simply by if they are Democrat or Republican.

Simple lives for simple minds.

I have to admit that not all Republicans are prima facie crazy. The rich Republicans certainly know what they are doing. The poor who voted for Trump? Not so much.

But what is going on with you? Does the delicate little snowflake 6ixStringJack melt when his core beliefs are rejected with contempt? Too bad for the unworkable delusions haunting your brain. Here is another delusion being backed by Republicans:

The rationale behind super-majority laws
https://qz.com/1245033

Supermajority bills were heralded as ways to ultimately improve economic growth, and force lawmakers to spend money more wisely. The idea is often buttressed by some variation of the “trickle down” theory of economics—cutting taxes encourages businesses to invest and hire more, and people with disposable income to spend more.

The economic reality

Making it harder to raise taxes hasn’t necessarily resulted in the economic growth or wiser spending that it was supposed to, however. While states that passed supermajority tax laws spent about 2% less on general state funding, that was offset by local spending (ie. from villages, cities, and counties), an Urban Institute report found (pdf, pg. 64).

There’s a broader lesson about “trickle down” economics that the US seems to be learning again and again, since the phrase was first coined to mock president Herbert Hoover’s depression-era tax plan. “We’ve got a good base of evidence from tax cutting in the states that shows tax cuts are not a recipe for economic growth,” said Johnson. “They just lead to reductions in services that people need.”

The Result:

On May 3, teachers in Arizona ended a six-day walkout after the state government agreed to a 20% salary raise over the next three years. While it sounds like a lot, it’s much less than what teachers were originally asking: Overall, Arizona’s school funding is still below the levels of the 2008 recession, later raises are not guaranteed, and they’re being financed by cash set aside to clean up pollution.

Striking teachers believe they may be the forefront of a new grassroots movement in the US, one that makes voters reconsider taxing companies and the wealthy.

Some teachers who were on strike have adopted a new chant as they come off: “Vote them out.” They intend to go to the polls in huge numbers in the mid-term election, and vote against candidate running on platforms of tax cuts and caps.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 1:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
I'm an anti-democracy Deep State troll.

Plus I live in a fantasy-world where my side is always good, and everyone who disagrees with me must be a foreign agent. And aside from that, I have OCD. Let's not forget the OCD.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic? Certainly not SECOND RATE, who is so bankrupt of ideas and ethics, his only way of dealing with information he can't grasp is to hide behind the "Russian troll" meme.

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 2:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


To get back to the thread topic - A thread for Democrats Only

Aside from Hillary (who's biggest goal was to get through the campaign chore on her way to the coronation, because who needs to actually appeal to voters in a democracy), Pelosi is another symbol of what's wrong with the party. I read, literally years ago, that dems had decided their strategy would be to ride the 'demographic' wave. Identity politics is one tactic to do that.

But the demographic wave isn't a given. You have to have something to offer even the 'demographic' voter, besides an aggrieved sense of victimhood (while you triangulate away their livelihoods to international corporations). Sooner or later, that message will wear out, and people will look around and realize "I'm NOT better off than I was 8 years ago". When they realize that - despite glib words of solidarity - DEMS ARE NOT ON THEIR SIDE, they will not be on the dems side, either.


Nancy Pelosi is a huge doubled-edged sword for Democrats
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/politics/nancy-pelosi-democrats/index.h
tml

Nancy Pelosi says she will run for speaker if Democrats win the House
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi: Democrats will win the House
Nancy Pelosi won't bet her job on a Democratic win
On Nancy Pelosi, most Dems in Pa., NJ keep their distance
Nancy Pelosi's mistake on identity politics
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/03/opinions/identity-politics-pelosi-opini
on-sheffield/index.html





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 3:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nancy Pelosi says threatens she will run for speaker if Democrats win the House

Fixed that for ya.

Almost as good as when Alec promised he would leave America if only we would elect Bush43.

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 4:25 PM

JJ




JJ

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 4:27 PM

JJ




JJ

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 5:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

And you live in the alternate reality where you can immediately judge whether a person is Good or Evil simply by if they are Democrat or Republican.

Simple lives for simple minds.

I have to admit that not all Republicans are prima facie crazy. The rich Republicans certainly know what they are doing. The poor who voted for Trump? Not so much.

But what is going on with you? Does the delicate little snowflake 6ixStringJack melt when his core beliefs are rejected with contempt? Too bad for the unworkable delusions haunting your brain. Here is another delusion being backed by Republicans:

The rationale behind super-majority laws
https://qz.com/1245033

Supermajority bills were heralded as ways to ultimately improve economic growth, and force lawmakers to spend money more wisely. The idea is often buttressed by some variation of the “trickle down” theory of economics—cutting taxes encourages businesses to invest and hire more, and people with disposable income to spend more.

The economic reality

Making it harder to raise taxes hasn’t necessarily resulted in the economic growth or wiser spending that it was supposed to, however. While states that passed supermajority tax laws spent about 2% less on general state funding, that was offset by local spending (ie. from villages, cities, and counties), an Urban Institute report found (pdf, pg. 64).

There’s a broader lesson about “trickle down” economics that the US seems to be learning again and again, since the phrase was first coined to mock president Herbert Hoover’s depression-era tax plan. “We’ve got a good base of evidence from tax cutting in the states that shows tax cuts are not a recipe for economic growth,” said Johnson. “They just lead to reductions in services that people need.”

The Result:

On May 3, teachers in Arizona ended a six-day walkout after the state government agreed to a 20% salary raise over the next three years. While it sounds like a lot, it’s much less than what teachers were originally asking: Overall, Arizona’s school funding is still below the levels of the 2008 recession, later raises are not guaranteed, and they’re being financed by cash set aside to clean up pollution.

Striking teachers believe they may be the forefront of a new grassroots movement in the US, one that makes voters reconsider taxing companies and the wealthy.

Some teachers who were on strike have adopted a new chant as they come off: “Vote them out.” They intend to go to the polls in huge numbers in the mid-term election, and vote against candidate running on platforms of tax cuts and caps.

Funny.
Teachers are so stupid they can't even find the polls, even when it is in their school the whole day.
Teachers are so stupid that they boast they are incapable of learning to fire a weapon like 10 year olds do every day.

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 6:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JJ:
God Bless America Lyrics

The video start arrow covered up a letter. When I scrolled past it, I read Godless America. No kidding. "My side" over all. All day. Every day.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, May 5, 2018 8:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

And you live in the alternate reality where you can immediately judge whether a person is Good or Evil simply by if they are Democrat or Republican.

Simple lives for simple minds.

I have to admit that not all Republicans are prima facie crazy. The rich Republicans certainly know what they are doing. The poor who voted for Trump? Not so much.

But what is going on with you? Does the delicate little snowflake 6ixStringJack melt when his core beliefs are rejected with contempt? Too bad for the unworkable delusions haunting your brain. Here is another delusion being backed by Republicans:

The rationale behind super-majority laws
https://qz.com/1245033

Supermajority bills were heralded as ways to ultimately improve economic growth, and force lawmakers to spend money more wisely. The idea is often buttressed by some variation of the “trickle down” theory of economics—cutting taxes encourages businesses to invest and hire more, and people with disposable income to spend more.

The economic reality

Making it harder to raise taxes hasn’t necessarily resulted in the economic growth or wiser spending that it was supposed to, however. While states that passed supermajority tax laws spent about 2% less on general state funding, that was offset by local spending (ie. from villages, cities, and counties), an Urban Institute report found (pdf, pg. 64).

There’s a broader lesson about “trickle down” economics that the US seems to be learning again and again, since the phrase was first coined to mock president Herbert Hoover’s depression-era tax plan. “We’ve got a good base of evidence from tax cutting in the states that shows tax cuts are not a recipe for economic growth,” said Johnson. “They just lead to reductions in services that people need.”

The Result:

On May 3, teachers in Arizona ended a six-day walkout after the state government agreed to a 20% salary raise over the next three years. While it sounds like a lot, it’s much less than what teachers were originally asking: Overall, Arizona’s school funding is still below the levels of the 2008 recession, later raises are not guaranteed, and they’re being financed by cash set aside to clean up pollution.

Striking teachers believe they may be the forefront of a new grassroots movement in the US, one that makes voters reconsider taxing companies and the wealthy.

Some teachers who were on strike have adopted a new chant as they come off: “Vote them out.” They intend to go to the polls in huge numbers in the mid-term election, and vote against candidate running on platforms of tax cuts and caps.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




Hey Sigs....

This is getting too funny.

I've been mislabled as a snowflake by the right and left fringes now, twice in one week.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, May 6, 2018 7:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Review of Bryan Caplan’s The Case Against Education
April 26th, 2018

www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3678

Scott Aaronson points out the areas in education that truthfully do need improvement in his review. Then he notes how a reform program can go wrong when done by famous name Republicans:

I have a more prosaic worry about Caplan’s program. If the world he advocates were actually brought into being, I suspect the people responsible wouldn’t be nerdy economics professors like himself, who have principled objections to “forced enlightenment” and to signalling charades, yet still maintain warm fuzzies for the ideals of learning. Rather, the “reformers” would be more on the model of, say, Steve Bannon or Scott Pruitt or Alex Jones: people who’d gleefully take a torch to the universities, fortresses of the despised intellectual elite, not in the conviction that this wouldn’t plunge humanity back into the Dark Ages, but in the hope that it would.

When the US Congress was debating whether to cancel the Superconducting Supercollider, a few condensed-matter physicists famously testified against the project. They thought that $10-$20 billion for a single experiment was excessive, and that they could provide way more societal value with that kind of money were it reallocated to them. We all know what happened: the SSC was cancelled, and of the money that was freed up, 0%—absolutely none of it—went to any of the other research favored by the SSC’s opponents.

If Caplan were to get his way, I fear that the story would be similar. Caplan talks about all the other priorities—from feeding the world’s poor to curing diseases to fixing crumbling infrastructure—that could be funded using the trillions currently wasted on runaway credential signaling. But in any future I can plausibly imagine where the government actually axes education, the savings go to things like enriching the leaders’ cronies and launching vanity wars.

My preferences for American politics have two tiers. In the first tier, I simply want the Democrats to vanquish the Republicans, in every office from president down to dogcatcher, in order to prevent further spiraling into nihilistic quasi-fascism, and to restore the baseline non-horribleness that we know is possible for rich liberal democracies. Then, in the second tier, I want the libertarians and rationalists and nerdy economists and Slate Star Codex readers to be able to experiment—that’s a key word here—with whether they can use futarchy** and prediction markets and pricing-in-lieu-of-regulation and other nifty ideas to improve dramatically over the baseline liberal order. I don’t expect that I’ll ever get what I want; I’ll be extremely lucky even to get the first half of it. But I find that my desires regarding Caplan’s program fit into the same mold. First and foremost, save education from those who’d destroy it because they hate the life of the mind. Then and only then, let people experiment with taking a surgical scalpel to education, removing from it the tumor of forced enlightenment, because they love the life of the mind.

**Futarchy is a form of government proposed by economist Robin Hanson, in which elected officials define measures of national welfare, and prediction markets are used to determine which policies will have the most positive effect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futarchy

Futarchy: Vote Values, But Bet Beliefs
Quote:

Democracy seems better than autocracy (i.e., kings and dictators), but it still has problems. There are today vast differences in wealth among nations, and we can not attribute most of these differences to either natural resources or human abilities. Instead, much of the difference seems to be that the poor nations (many of which are democracies) are those that more often adopted dumb policies, policies which hurt most everyone in the nation. And even rich nations frequently adopt such policies.
http://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/futarchy.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, May 6, 2018 7:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Hey Sigs....

This is getting too funny.

I've been mislabled as a snowflake by the right and left fringes now, twice in one week.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6ix, you've told stories about yourself melting down under adversity. I'd believe you are not a frail snowflake if you hadn't told them. You need to build a false internet facade for yourself, making you look braver, tougher, smarter, less beaten down by life than you really are. You can start building the strength illusion by ignoring accusations of being a snowflake. For example, every time Trump says "No Collusion!" I know he knows he colluded. When he says "Believe Me" I know he knows he told a lie.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Kavanaugh
Mon, September 24, 2018 15:21 - 141 posts
Is Shifty Schiff About To Be Exposed As Collosal Liar?
Mon, September 24, 2018 15:18 - 27 posts
Countdown Clock to Trumps impeachment " STARTS"
Mon, September 24, 2018 14:40 - 1365 posts
Who, What is Zero Hedge
Mon, September 24, 2018 14:04 - 33 posts
Russia wants to upend Western democracy
Mon, September 24, 2018 13:54 - 113 posts
Mike Pompeo and Former Obama aide Rahm Emanuel say US preparing 'actions' against Venezuela?
Mon, September 24, 2018 13:24 - 2 posts
Trump's Budget
Mon, September 24, 2018 11:38 - 105 posts
Chemical weapons: Are we detecting a pattern yet?
Mon, September 24, 2018 10:57 - 110 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Mon, September 24, 2018 08:25 - 1858 posts
Evidence: So where are we now(II) ?
Mon, September 24, 2018 03:44 - 539 posts
Muzik #10
Sun, September 23, 2018 21:28 - 3 posts
Sentencing Thread
Sun, September 23, 2018 16:11 - 34 posts

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