REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Monday, September 16, 2019 07:27
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Sunday, November 18, 2018 7:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"If the Democrats offer a very real 50% solution" ... that would be nice. But making life better for working people, simply NOT targeting Russia, and proposing even minimal but durable global warming solutions weren't anywhere in the platform. Hell, I'd settle for a 25% solution, maybe even a 10% solution on those items.

How much you want to bet House democrats don't address any one of those?

Side bet - how much you want to bet House democrats focus on being anti-Trump instead?

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Monday, November 19, 2018 8:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"If the Democrats offer a very real 50% solution" ... that would be nice. But making life better for working people, simply NOT targeting Russia, and proposing even minimal but durable global warming solutions weren't anywhere in the platform. Hell, I'd settle for a 25% solution, maybe even a 10% solution on those items.

How much you want to bet House democrats don't address any one of those?

Side bet - how much you want to bet House democrats focus on being anti-Trump instead?

How much you want to bet that House Democrats know they can't pass any legislation through the Senate? All they can do is watch Trump or subpoena his Income Tax Returns. You remember? the tax returns Trump promised many times to make public just as soon as none of his returns are being audited. Since everything about Trump's thinking revolves around how much money Trump will make as President, his income returns are one way to get inside his head and discover why he acts like a jackass rather than a President. He is probably too old & stubborn to change into a President for his final years so the Democrats should surrender to him, give him everything and talk nice about him, too.

How much do you want to bet that Republicans have a majority in the Senate? Oh, I just checked and the GOP does have a majority for the next 2 years. (I can't say about the next 4 years, but the GOP probably will.) Unless the Democrats get 67 Senators, not 47, all their ideas are dead because the GOP will kill them from here to Eternity. And then 1kiki and Signym can act like dummies claiming that Democrats were as fake about change as Trump is fake.

The second part is that some Democrats in the Senate act like Republicans. Senator Joe Lieberman, the so-called Democrat from Connecticut, was famous for twisting legislation in the direction the GOP preferred if it could not be killed outright. Sorrowfully, the US Constitution and the rules of the Senate make it impossible to get anything positive done when the Senators from at least a third of the States are working against all positive changes, no matter how small. Since the GOP has been acting that way since Newt Gingrich, I bet the GOP will never cooperative with anything progressive from a Democrat. Therefore, blame the Democrats, 1kiki and Signym!

www.politico.com/story/2018/11/19/maxine-waters-investigate-trump-1000
430

Quote:

Rep. Maxine Waters is running into an unexpected obstacle in her bid to investigate a president who has mocked her as a “low IQ person”: members of the California Democrat's own party.

Waters, the incoming chairwoman of the House Financial Services Committee, has promised to follow the “Trump money trail,” targeting the Trump Organization’s hundreds of millions in loans from Deutsche Bank, the German lender that has been under scrutiny in connection with Russian money laundering. But the committee has a handful of moderates who worry that such aggressive moves will backfire.

“The American people will understand thoughtful, well-grounded investigations," said Rep. Jim Himes, a Connecticut Democrat. “But they will bridle at investigations that seem overtly political."

That tension between cautious Democrats and those who want to train their subpoena firepower at the White House is being repeated throughout the House, as establishment veterans face off against progressives out for revenge against President Donald Trump.

While much of the base wants lawmakers to take on Trump and big corporations that have benefited from his tax cuts and deregulation, more moderate members fear that oversight investigations will be a distraction or cause political blowback for the party. They want to see a policy focus instead and don't want to be pulled too far to the left.


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Monday, November 19, 2018 9:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


“The Flight 93 Election” in 2016
www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

The essay posited that like Flight 93, where passengers and crew forced a plane hijacked on 9/11 to crash in a field rather than into the US Capitol, the 2016 presidential election was a life-or-death scenario requiring Americans to elect Trump, “crashing the plane” rather than allowing Hillary Clinton to win the White House, because “A Hillary presidency will be pedal-to-the-metal on the entire Progressive-left agenda, plus items few of us have yet imagined in our darkest moments.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trumpism turned America’s lagging regions solid red, but the backlash against Trumpism has turned its growing regions solid blue. Some of the reporters interviewing guys in diners should have been talking to college-educated women in places like California’s Orange County, a former ultraconservative stronghold that, come January, will be represented in Congress entirely by Democrats.

Why have lagging regions turned right while successful regions turned left? It doesn’t seem to be about economic self-interest. True, Trump promised to bring back traditional jobs in manufacturing and coal mining — but that promise was never credible. And the orthodox Republican policy agenda of cutting taxes and shrinking social programs, which is basically what Trump is following in practice, actually hurts lagging regions, which depend a lot on things like food stamps and disability payments, much more than it hurts successful areas.

Furthermore, there is little if any support in voting data for the notion that “economic anxiety” drove people to vote for Trump. As documented in “Identity Politics,” an important new book analyzing the 2016 election, what distinguished Trump voters wasn’t financial hardship but “attitudes related to race and ethnicity.”

Yet these attitudes aren’t divorced from economic change. Even if they’re personally doing well, many voters in lagging regions have a sense of grievance, a feeling that they’re being disrespected by the glittering elites of superstar cities; this sense of grievance all too easily turns into racial antagonism. Conversely, however, the transformation of the G.O.P. into a white nationalist party alienates voters — even white voters — in those big, successful metropolitan areas. So the regional economic divide becomes a political chasm.

Can this chasm be bridged? Honestly, I doubt it. The sense of being left behind can make people angry even if their material needs are taken care of. That is what we see, for example, in the former East Germany: Despite huge financial aid from the west and generous social programs, “Ossis” feel aggrieved by what they see as second-class status, and they have given many of their votes to extreme right-wing parties. So the bitter division we see in America — the ugliness infecting our politics — may have economic roots, but there may be no practical way to make the bitterness go away.

More at www.nytimes.com/2018/11/19/opinion/economy-trump-red-blue-states.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol... let's try to read into all the reasons why history ALWAYS shows that the general trend is to vote Democrat when people are living comfortably and lean Republican when the economy takes a dump.

Yup. Must be "muh racisim!".

Tool.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 11:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol... let's try to read into all the reasons why history ALWAYS shows that the general trend is to vote Democrat when people are living comfortably and lean Republican when the economy takes a dump.

Yup. Must be "muh racisim!".

Tool.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Does the economy do better under Republicans or Democrats? Democrats.
www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thin
g-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/#5149b5f56786

www.aeaweb.org/research/why-does-the-economy-do-better-democrats-white
-house


Does the National Debt do better under Republicans or Democrats? Democrats.
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/gop-presidents-have-been-
the-worst-contributors-to-the-federal-debt/264193
/

Under Trump, the Federal government will be running a multi-trillion dollar deficit when it should be running a surplus.
www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-budget-deficit-hits-6-year-high-in-donald
-trumps-first-fiscal-year-as-president
/
www.cato.org/publications/commentary/budget-deficits-are-only-getting-
bigger-under-trump


The conclusion was that the dynamic parts of America, the parts that are doing best, are controlled by Democrats. Personally, I'm doing terrific compared to the Republicans around me. Will they join me in business deals? No way! Too risky! They are convinced I don't know how to get rich and I'm not showing them I am rich because it would only cause friction between us. They can't be taught to be better because they are certain they already know what is best.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 5:25 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Mr. Trump’s frustrations about Mr. Comey and Mrs. Clinton were a recurring refrain, a former White House official said. “Why aren’t they going after” them?, the president would ask of Justice Department officials.

Mr. Trump repeatedly pressed Justice Department officials about the status of Clinton-related investigations, including Mr. Whitaker when he was the chief of staff to Attorney General Jeff Sessions, according to a person with direct knowledge of the conversations. CNN first reported those discussions.

In his conversation with Mr. McGahn, the president asked what stopped him from ordering the Justice Department to investigate Mr. Comey and Mrs. Clinton, the two people familiar with the conversation said. He did have the authority to ask the Justice Department to investigate, Mr. McGahn said, but warned that making such a request could create a series of problems.

Mr. McGahn promised to write a memo outlining the president’s authorities. In the days that followed, lawyers in the White House Counsel’s Office wrote a several-page document in which they strongly cautioned Mr. Trump against asking the Justice Department to investigate anyone.

The lawyers laid out a series of consequences. For starters, Justice Department lawyers could refuse to follow Mr. Trump’s orders even before an investigation began, setting off another political firestorm.

If charges were brought, judges could dismiss them. And Congress, they added, could investigate the president’s role in a prosecution and begin impeachment proceedings.

Ultimately, the lawyers warned, Mr. Trump could be voted out of office if voters believed he had abused his power.

More at www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/us/politics/president-trump-justice-departm
ent.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 5:31 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Liberals and conservatives agree that Jamal Khashoggi’s murder was ordered by Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS).

But Trump is happy to take the Saudi dictator’s word that he is not a murderer, even though nobody in domestic politics or the US government agrees.

The CIA has concluded that MBS was involved in the murder, all the evidence points in this direction, and it’s frankly just common sense that Saudi Arabia’s intelligence service isn’t going to murder somebody in one of its consulates just on a whim. Trump disagrees on a FOX interview:

WALLACE: A month ago, you said you had spoken with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and that he had told you directly that he had no knowledge of this.

TRUMP: That’s right, that’s right, and still says that.

WALLACE: But we now know that some of the people closest to him, some of his closest advisers were part of this. Question: Did MBS lie to you, sir?

TRUMP: I don’t — I don’t know, you know, who could really know? But I can say this he’s got many people now that say he had no knowledge.

WALLACE: What if the crown prince speaking to you, the president of the United States directly lied to you about —

TRUMP: Well, he told me that he had nothing to do with it, he told me that, I would say, maybe five times at different points.

WALLACE: But what if he’s lying?

TRUMP: As recently as a few days ago.

WALLACE: Do you just live with it because you need him?

TRUMP: Well, will anybody really know? All right, will anybody really know?

Is this just some kind of all-around cluelessness by Trump?

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/19/18101383/trump-chris-wallac
e-fox-news-sunday-interview


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:26 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol... let's try to read into all the reasons why history ALWAYS shows that the general trend is to vote Democrat when people are living comfortably and lean Republican when the economy takes a dump.

Yup. Must be "muh racisim!".

Tool.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Does the economy do better under Republicans or Democrats? Democrats.
www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thin
g-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/#5149b5f56786

www.aeaweb.org/research/why-does-the-economy-do-better-democrats-white
-house


Does the National Debt do better under Republicans or Democrats? Democrats.
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/gop-presidents-have-been-
the-worst-contributors-to-the-federal-debt/264193
/

Under Trump, the Federal government will be running a multi-trillion dollar deficit when it should be running a surplus.
www.cbsnews.com/news/federal-budget-deficit-hits-6-year-high-in-donald
-trumps-first-fiscal-year-as-president
/
www.cato.org/publications/commentary/budget-deficits-are-only-getting-
bigger-under-trump


The conclusion was that the dynamic parts of America, the parts that are doing best, are controlled by Democrats. Personally, I'm doing terrific compared to the Republicans around me. Will they join me in business deals? No way! Too risky! They are convinced I don't know how to get rich and I'm not showing them I am rich because it would only cause friction between us. They can't be taught to be better because they are certain they already know what is best.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 11:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

lol

6ix, "lol" could be a dead giveaway you are not living a data driven life if you can't tell that there is a multi-trillion dollar difference between Democrats and Republicans, favoring Democrats.

www.aeaweb.org/research/why-does-the-economy-do-better-democrats-white
-house



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Nope. Just lol-ing at your "data".

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 10:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
How much you want to bet that House Democrats know they can't pass any legislation through the Senate?

So what? This is their chance to show us what they would do when they can. This is their chance to show us they can think about governing instead of being mesmerized with saying nyah nyah nyah your poop stinks.




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 8:13 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The time Nancy Pelosi saved Social Security

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/21/18103325/nancy-pelosi-socia
l-security-privatization-bush-plan


Republicans had a problem.

If younger working people stopped paying Social Security taxes and started putting their money into private accounts instead, that would create a huge temporary hole in the federal budget. Many Republican members of Congress had spent the previous years embracing privatization as a solution for Social Security’s long-term solvency without understanding that privatization actually created an enormous short-term solvency problem. And the GOP had no consensus on how to surmount this difficulty.

The options, roughly speaking, were to cut benefits for the current elderly, to raise taxes, to cut spending elsewhere, or to accept a large increase in the budget deficit. All of these ideas had some support in conservative circles, but none of them had a lot of support. And to pass anything, Republicans would need to unite around a single solution.

Pressure mounted on Democrats — including from inside their own caucus — to propose a Social Security fix of their own to counter Bush’s proposal. Pelosi’s insight was that any Democratic proposal would necessarily prompt intraparty infighting and muddy the waters, while Republicans simply had no way of resolving the internal contradictions of their own position. If Democrats simply stayed united and critical of privatization, the GOP plan would collapse under its own weight.

What they had to do was do nothing:

As the spring of 2005 wore on, some pestered her every week, asking when they were going to release a rival plan.

“Never. Is never good enough for you?” Pelosi defiantly said to one member.

It worked. While Democrats refused to engage in the details of the debate, infighting consumed Republicans. And the fact that the whole idea was unpopular loomed larger and larger in the minds of GOP elected officials who had no particular stake in the details.

Bush attempted to barnstorm the country in support of privatization, but that only drew more attention to an embarrassing and unpopular situation. No bill ever came to a vote in either house of Congress.

More at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/21/18103325/nancy-pelosi-socia
l-security-privatization-bush-plan


The above story shows that the Federal government can't change directions easily because there is enormous friction built into the system by the Constitution. Furthermore, Congress can't even decide on a new direction easily because 50 states are each pulling in 50 opposing directions ever since, for one example, California's people became very unlike Wyoming's. Wyoming's Senators have the same amount of power as California's, but there can be no lasting agreements between those two states on how to use that power. The situation gets more unworkable and breakdown-prone in the Senate as the number of states that could never see eye-to-eye increases to 50.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:18 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump said on Thanksgiving that there would be "bedlam, chaos, injury and death" if the federal judiciary did not give him his way on immigration policy.

Trump has been butting heads with Chief Justice John Roberts, who has defended the independence of the federal judiciary.

The Constitution tasks the judicial branch with checking Congress and the executive branch on the constitutionality of their actions.

www.businessinsider.com/trump-warns-chaos-injury-and-death-if-us-court
-stays-independent-2018-11


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Trump said on Thanksgiving that there would be "bedlam, chaos, injury and death" if the federal judiciary did not give him his way on immigration policy.

Trump has been butting heads with Chief Justice John Roberts, who has defended the independence of the federal judiciary.

The Constitution tasks the judicial branch with checking Congress and the executive branch on the constitutionality of their actions.

www.businessinsider.com/trump-warns-chaos-injury-and-death-if-us-court
-stays-independent-2018-11


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



The asylum ban will go to the supreme court, where they will support Trump.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 4:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
The time Nancy Pelosi ...

WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy back in 2005 on topics that had nothing to do with the pressing issues of today.

Really, SECOND? Is that your excuse for democrats today?




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Friday, November 23, 2018 9:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
The time Nancy Pelosi ...

WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy back in 2005 on topics that had nothing to do with the pressing issues of today.

Really, SECOND? Is that your excuse for democrats today?

I have been following politics for about 66 years. There is no goddamn difference between the causes of America's problems of today and 2001. On 9/11 I was reminded that the majority of voting Americans, obviously NOT me nor everybody, are a bunch of panicky idiots, prone to getting angry but completely confused when directing it at the correct target. The majority ABSOLUTELY CANNOT figure out the correct people to blame. It was no surprise to me that there would be a stupid war which America would lose in the Middle East, although I never expected two stupid wars. I guess I had too high an opinion of American voters, but I have since lowered my expectations. I was in Vietnam; I know about how many idiots back in America believed that was a war worth fighting. Place Americans under a little pressure and the majority of voters couldn't make a sensible decision to save their lives. Both Democratic and GOP Congressmen know this limits what can be done by Congress. If Congress does something smart, the idiot voters, which are the majority, will turn against it. It is why Democratic Congressmen make tiny little steps toward progress. If they do more they get voted out of office. It is why Republican Congressmen can teardown progress made by Democrats. The majority of voters are too stupid to understand what happened and who to blame. The GOP knows that the Democratic Congressmen will get as much blame as the GOP Congressmen for what only the GOP did. Why not profitably teardown the country when your enemy will get blamed as much as you? The rich get all the money and Democratic Congressmen get half the blame. It is a great system for allowing the GOP to completely control America about half the time. And when the GOP is not in control? The Democrats get to clean up the mess. The Democrats will then be kicked out since the GOP can convince dumb Americans that it is all the Democrat's fault and the GOP can go back to again profitably tearing down America.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 23, 2018 9:35 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
The time Nancy Pelosi ...

WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy back in 2005 on topics that had nothing to do with the pressing issues of today.

Really, SECOND? Is that your excuse for democrats today?

I have been following politics for about 66 years. There is no goddamn difference between the causes of America's problems of today and 2001. On 9/11 I was reminded that the majority of voting Americans, obviously NOT me nor everybody, are a bunch of panicky idiots, prone to getting angry but completely confused when directing it at the correct target. The majority ABSOLUTELY CANNOT figure out the correct people to blame. It was no surprise to me that there would be a stupid war which America would lose in the Middle East, although I never expected two stupid wars. I guess I had too high an opinion of American voters, but I have since lowered my expectations. I was in Vietnam; I know about how many idiots back in America believed that was a war worth fighting. Place Americans under a little pressure and the majority of voters couldn't make a sensible decision to save their lives. Both Democratic and GOP Congressmen know this limits what can be done by Congress. If Congress does something smart, the idiot voters, which are the majority, will turn against it. It is why Democratic Congressmen make tiny little steps toward progress. If they do more they get voted out of office. It is why Republican Congressmen can teardown progress made by Democrats. The majority of voters are too stupid to understand what happened and who to blame. The GOP knows that the Democratic Congressmen will get as much blame as the GOP Congressmen for what only the GOP did. Why not teardown the country when your enemy will get blamed as much as you?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



So what happened when Obama got us into more wars? Or Hillary threatening Russia with nukes then?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 9:45 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

So what happened when Obama got us into more wars? Or Hillary threatening Russia with nukes then?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

What war? Obama couldn't shutdown the Afghanistan War because of the majority of dumbass American voters wanted to "win" in Afghanistan. And when did Hillary threaten to nuke Russia? Did she make a Fire and Fury declaration like Trump did against N Korea? She did not. American politics are ridiculous because the majority of American voters are ridiculous people.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 23, 2018 10:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Today, Trump tweeted:
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Republicans and Democrats MUST come together, finally, with a major Border Security package, which will include funding for the Wall. After 40 years of talk, it is finally time for action. Fix the Border, for once and for all, NOW!
4:41 AM - 23 Nov 2018
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1065948536498544640

The Democrats will ask Trump to give them something for their vote or else he can shove his Wall up his. He will refuse to offer anything. Then idiotic voters who can't understand the notion of compromise or negotiation will blame both the Democrats and Republicans for the impasse, but it is only the GOP that is not making a good-faith effort to come to an agreement.

I have seen Trump and the GOP screw up this negotiation twice. Trump will screw it up a third time almost certainly:
www.politico.com/story/2018/03/19/border-wall-democrats-respond-470687
http://fortune.com/2018/01/25/trump-border-wall-dreamers-immigration/


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, November 23, 2018 11:24 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by second: American politics are ridiculous because the majority of American voters are ridiculous people.


Your use of the word "ridiculous" is charitable - must be the holiday spirit.
And that's just the half of the population that bothers to vote!

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Friday, November 23, 2018 11:38 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

What war? Obama couldn't shutdown the Afghanistan War because of the majority of dumbass American voters wanted to "win" in Afghanistan.



https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-na-pol-obama-at-war/

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/01/18/commentary/world-comme
ntary/obama-war-peace/#.W_gqKuJMG70


Quote:

In truth, Obama, like Bush, paid little heed to international law — or even American law — when it came in the way of his overseas military operations.

For example, Obama did not seek U.N. or U.S. congressional authorization before launching an air war in Syria. In fact, he speciously justified his bombing campaign in Syria by relying on the unrelated congressional authority that Bush secured to go after those who “planned, authorized, committed or aided” the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The 2011 U.S.-led operation against Libya’s Moammar Gadhafi began as a supposed humanitarian mission, only to quickly turn into a regime-change exercise, whose success quickly bred chaos and mayhem in Libya. Although goaded into the Libyan operation by his hawkish secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, Obama will be remembered in history for demolishing Libya in the same way that Bush unraveled Iraq. The collapse of the Libyan state has created a jihadist citadel at Europe’s southern doorstep.

Obama’s CIA-led regime-change operation in Syria, although unsuccessful, contributed to plunging another secular Muslim autocracy into jihadist upheaval.

Obama indeed presided over the birth of the most potent terrorist organization in modern history — Islamic State — which still controls large tracts of territory in Syria and Iraq even 29 months after Obama began an air war against it. As U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has admitted, the Obama team viewed the rise of IS as a possibly useful development to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad, only to see it grow into a monster.








Quote:

And when did Hillary threaten to nuke Russia? Did she make a Fire and Fury declaration like Trump did against N Korea? She did not. American politics are ridiculous because the majority of American voters are ridiculous people.









https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/26/susan-sarandon-i-thought-
hillary-was-very-dangerous-if-shed-won-wed-be-at-war




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 12:35 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by second:I have been following politics for about 66 years.


How old are you? I'v seen 70 sumthing mentioned, but wuz skeptical. The vage quazi-imaj I hav uv you iz in the 'upper midl ajed hed uv spy ajensy' stereotype wich can be male or female.

Quote:

...On 9/11 I was reminded that the majority of voting Americans, obviously NOT me nor everybody, are a bunch of panicky idiots, prone to getting angry but completely confused when directing it at the correct target. The majority ABSOLUTELY CANNOT figure out the correct people to blame...but I have since lowered my expectations.


Even tho I realized humanz are idiots way bak in grammar skool, I seem to need to re-ajust my expectationz downward several timez a yir az new stooopid events happen.

Quote:

It is why Republican Congressmen can teardown progress made by Democrats. The majority of voters are too stupid to understand what happened and who to blame. The GOP knows that the Democratic Congressmen will get as much blame as the GOP Congressmen for what only the GOP did.


The GoPs hav tapped into the power uv stupid. Even tho it iz horrendously inefficient, its about 1,000 timez more massiv than the power uv intellijens, so usually winz the boxing match.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Friday, November 23, 2018 2:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:

The GoPs hav tapped into the power uv stupid. Even tho it iz horrendously inefficient, its about 1,000 timez more massiv than the power uv intellijens, so usually winz the boxing match.



But! But! Hillary won the popular vote!!!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

But! But! Hillary won the popular vote!!!

But! But! Obama killed Muammar Gaddafi (except he didn't) which means Obama gave birth to ISIS (except he didn't). Ask a Trump voter about who is responsible for what wicked people worldwide do and the answer is Obama! Obama! making the point that Trump voters understand the State Department and Pentagon and CIA as poorly as they do the Federal Reserve Board and HUD and FDIC.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


There is a divergence in health care destinies, depending on states’ political orientation.

www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/opinion/democrats-obamacare-states.html

In 2013, before Obamacare went into effect, California had an above-average rate of uninsurance: 17.2 percent of its population was uncovered. North Carolina did somewhat better, with “only” 15.6 percent uninsured. But as of last year, the uninsured rate in California had fallen 10 points, to 7.2 percent, while North Carolina’s rate was still above 10 percent.

What made the difference? Solid-blue California, with a Democratic governor and Legislature, did all it could to make Obamacare work: It expanded Medicaid, operated its own marketplace and made major efforts to get people signed up. North Carolina, under Republican rule, did none of these things.

And the importance of state-level action has only increased in the past two years, as the Trump administration and its congressional allies, unable to fully repeal Obamacare, have nonetheless done all they can to sabotage it. They eliminated the individual mandate, which pushed people to sign up while they were still healthy; they eliminated reinsurance that helped insurance companies manage their own risk; they cut back drastically on outreach.

All of these measures acted to drive premiums up and enrollment down. But states can, if they choose, fill the Trump-size hole.

The most dramatic example of how this can be done is New Jersey, where Democrats gained full control at the end of 2017 and promptly created state-level versions of both the mandate and reinsurance. The results were impressive: New Jersey’s premiums for 2019 are 9.3 percent lower than for 2018, and are now well below the national average. Undoing Trumpian sabotage seems to have saved the average buyer around $1,500 a year.

Now that Democrats have won control of multiple states, they can and should emulate New Jersey’s example, and move beyond it if they can. Why not, for example, introduce state-level public options — actuarially sound government plans — as alternatives to private insurance?

The point is that while the new House majority won’t be able to do much beyond defending Obamacare, at least for now, its allies in the states can do much more, and in the process deliver on the agenda the whole party ran on this year.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


New report says Climate change will cost the U.S. economy hundreds of billions of dollars. Per Year.

"Believe me, it won’t." – Trump’s response.

Just this week, he mocked the science of climate change because of a cold snap in the Northeast, tweeting, “Whatever happened to Global Warming?”

www.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-usa/clashing-with-trump-u-s-
government-report-says-climate-change-will-batter-economy-idUSKCN1NS19D


Trump has been rolling back Obama-era environmental and climate protections to maximize production of domestic fossil fuels, including crude oil, already the highest production in the world, above Saudi Arabia and Russia.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:20 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

But! But! Hillary won the popular vote!!!

But! But! Obama killed Muammar Gaddafi (except he didn't) which means Obama gave birth to ISIS (except he didn't). Ask a Trump voter about who is responsible for what wicked people worldwide do and the answer is Obama! Obama! making the point that Trump voters understand the State Department and Pentagon and CIA as poorly as they do the Federal Reserve Board and HUD and FDIC.



He made a bunch of promises he didn't keep. You can't deny that.

Nobel Peace prize. What a laugh.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

He made a bunch of promises he didn't keep. You can't deny that.

Nobel Peace prize. What a laugh.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Obama made promises. The GOP listened closely and did their worst to make him fail.



Remember Guantanamo? Obama promised to shut it down and the GOP fought him every step.
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-gu
antanamo


If Obama wanted to kill fewer people? The GOP wanted more civilians dead, and fought Obama every step against killing less. If he had tried to completely shutdown the stupidest wars in history, the GOP would ignite a political firestorm that would burn forever. All Obama's GOP Generals would eventually be voting for Trump. Did you notice how many delighted Generals were placed on Trump's staff? Trump is working toward justifying an invasion of Iran, as Bush worked for invading Iraq.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-22638533


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 10:16 AM

THG


On the money SECOND, on the money. We have had to live in the world of propaganda as far as the republicans go. In the courts though they've convicted none of those they've accused. They've overturned none of the laws they have promised if it takes a favorable court ruling to do so. Why, because lies don't win court cases.

Then there's now. The courts have been convicting the accused because you win court cases with the truth. We hear fake news until Mueller indicts. Have you noticed that that is Stones defense now. Before charges are even filed he is saying it's all fake.

tick tock

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Saturday, November 24, 2018 1:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

He made a bunch of promises he didn't keep. You can't deny that.

Nobel Peace prize. What a laugh.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Obama made promises. The GOP listened closely and did their worst to make him fail.

Remember Guantanamo? Obama promised to shut it down and the GOP fought him every step.
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/01/why-obama-has-failed-to-close-gu
antanamo


If Obama wanted to kill fewer people? The GOP wanted more civilians dead, and fought Obama every step against killing less. If he had tried to completely shutdown the stupidest wars in history, the GOP would ignite a political firestorm that would burn forever. All Obama's GOP Generals would eventually be voting for Trump. Did you notice how many delighted Generals were placed on Trump's staff? Trump is working toward justifying an invasion of Iran, as Bush worked for invading Iraq.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-22638533


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




Yeah... Obama just quietly sent in drones that killed innocent civilians 8 times out of ten.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 6:27 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Yeah... Obama just quietly sent in drones that killed innocent civilians 8 times out of ten.




Looks like those GOP tactics worked like a charm on you!

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 7:32 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Yeah... Obama just quietly sent in drones that killed innocent civilians 8 times out of ten.




Looks like those GOP tactics worked like a charm on you!



The truth sucks, doesn't it.

(There is no question mark here because it was by no means a question)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 8:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Democratic Citizens And The Populist Ideal Of Democracy

The assumptions underlying the folk theory of democracy are very stringent. Can ordinary people, busy with their lives and with no firsthand experience of policy-making or public administration, do what the theory expects them to do? Can they formulate policy preferences, assess where candidates stand on the issues, set aside cognitive biases and group prejudices, and then choose a candidate who embodies an uplifting version of their own policy views? Can human nature meet those demands?

As we showed in chapter 2, the answer is that real people are not much like the citizens imagined by the folk theory. Numerous studies have demonstrated that most residents of democratic countries have little interest in politics and do not follow news of public affairs beyond browsing the headlines. They do not know the details of even salient policy debates, they do not have a firm understanding of what the political parties stand for, and they often vote for parties whose long-standing issue positions are at odds with their own. Mostly, they identify with ethnic, racial, occupational, religious, or other sorts of groups, and often—whether through group ties or hereditary loyalties—with a political party. Even the more attentive citizens mostly adopt the policy positions of the parties as their own: they are mirrors of the parties, not masters. For most citizens most of the time, party and group loyalties are the primary drivers of vote choices.

Thus, the folk theory of democracy fails.

from chapter 11, Democracy for Realists: Why Elections Do Not Produce Responsive Government
www.amazon.com/Democracy-Realists-Elections-Responsive-Government/dp/0
691178240
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 8:33 AM

THG


White House deputy chief of staff for communications receiving millions from Fox

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-shine-white-house-deputy-chief-of-st
aff-for-communications-receiving-millions-from-fox
/

T

Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies




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Sunday, November 25, 2018 8:42 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Democratic Citizens And The Populist Ideal Of Democracy

The assumptions underlying the folk theory of democracy are very stringent. Can ordinary people, busy with their lives and with no firsthand experience of policy-making or public administration, do what the theory expects them to do? Can they formulate policy preferences, assess where candidates stand on the issues, set aside cognitive biases and group prejudices, and then choose a candidate who embodies an uplifting version of their own policy views? Can human nature meet those demands?

As we showed in chapter 2, the answer is that real people are not much like the citizens imagined by the folk theory. Numerous studies have demonstrated that most residents of democratic countries have little interest in politics and do not follow news of public affairs beyond browsing the headlines. They do not know the details of even salient policy debates, they do not have a firm understanding of what the political parties stand for, and they often vote for parties whose long-standing issue positions are at odds with their own. Mostly, they identify with ethnic, racial, occupational, religious, or other sorts of groups, and often—whether through group ties or hereditary loyalties—with a political party. Even the more attentive citizens mostly adopt the policy positions of the parties as their own: they are mirrors of the parties, not masters. For most citizens most of the time, party and group loyalties are the primary drivers of vote choices.

Thus, the folk theory of democracy fails.

from chapter 11, Democracy for Realists: Why Elections Do Not Produce Responsive Government
www.amazon.com/Democracy-Realists-Elections-Responsive-Government/dp/0
691178240
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




Yup. You're one of them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 9:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Yeah... Obama just quietly sent in drones that killed innocent civilians 8 times out of ten.




Looks like those GOP tactics worked like a charm on you!



The truth sucks, doesn't it.

(There is no question mark here because it was by no means a question)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Remember the statistic that the USA spends more on the military than the next 9 countries put together? The Pentagon is familiar with that statistic. They MUST kill to keep justifying their budget. The GOP wants them to kill. The majority of voters, D and R, want them to kill. That’s why there are Mission Impossible movies, SEAL Team TV show, and Firefly. Do you think Obama was going to tell his voters that the Pentagon is a waste of money? Who but them and the CIA will do the killing the voters feel is necessary?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditur
es

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Team_(TV_series)#Episodes

If the majority of voters stopped believing that the Pentagon and the CIA are solving problems by killing civilians, the killing would stop. But the majority of voters are extremely credulous about the effectiveness of military force. (Anybody here remember the Vietnam War?) It would be a real relief for a guy like Obama if he did not have to murder to please the masses. But the voters watched too much Firefly with Mal killing somebody almost every week. They expect their Presidents to do the same almost every week to make the voters feel safe from terrorists, Communists, drug traffickers, whatever.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 9:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol. Okay. Obama killed innocent people for you and me.

Thanks Barry.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 9:31 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. Okay. Obama killed innocent people for you and me.

Thanks Barry.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If the majority of American voters weren't angry cowards happy to watch people die for their entertainment, American politicians could behave better. I don't think the majority of voters can even imagine the connection between who they are and what the Pentagon and CIA do. I saw it after 9/11. Bush was going to kill a million women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan to please the American voters. Bush and Cheney's cynicism about American voters worked, too! They got re-elected in a landslide. Democrats recognize that most American voters are completely indifferent to foreign civilians killed by the Pentagon and CIA. And don't care about torture, either. For Democrats to strongly resist what the GOP does during war will only cause more voters to switch over to voting Republican.

www.statista.com/statistics/269729/documented-civilian-deaths-in-iraq-
war-since-2003
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:17 AM

THG


It's easy to be self-righteous while maintaining a safe distance from ridicule and danger. America is a work in progress and we are living through the events of the time. The possibilities here are endless.

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies




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Sunday, November 25, 2018 11:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It's easy to be self-righteous while maintaining a safe distance from ridicule and danger. America is a work in progress and we are living through the events of the time. The possibilities here are endless.

The theory of group politics provides a clearer explanation for why a more egalitarian society would result in a more egalitarian political process. The result would be an increase in the real political power of a variety of currently under-represented groups, not all of them approved of by the editorial pages of either the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal. The policy views of both corporate interests and college professors would get less weight in a fairer process.

The problem, of course, is how to accomplish such a change. At the moment, Americans lack the ideas, the will, and the political organization. Protest groups come along regularly; but because their political thinking is so bound up in the folk theory of democracy, they resist the leadership, organization, and coalition-building that would give them clout and staying power. They quickly fade, leaving everything much as it was.

A (somewhat) less daunting aim than a more egalitarian society would be simply to reduce the most direct effects of existing differences in wealth in the democratic process. Rich people, large corporations, and business associations everywhere spend considerable sums financing politicians’ campaigns and lobbying them between elections. But few established democracies do as little as the United States does to limit the distorting effects of money in the democratic process. Congress has made periodic attempts to regulate lobbying and campaign contributions, usually in ways that tend to protect the interests of incumbent politicians regardless of party or ideology, but sometimes in ways that would have helped level the playing field. However, in recent years conservative majorities on the Supreme Court have increasingly employed 19th-century liberalism's logic that buying elections is a form of free speech, and therefore protected under the Constitution, to gut restrictions on political contributions.

from chapter 11, Democracy for Realists: Why Elections Do Not Produce Responsive Government
www.amazon.com/Democracy-Realists-Elections-Responsive-Government/dp/0
691178240
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 25, 2018 7:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
The time Nancy Pelosi ...

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy back in 2005 on topics that had nothing to do with the pressing issues of today.
Really, SECOND? Is that your excuse for democrats today?

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
I have been following politics for about 66 years.

I think you're too entranced with your history to look at today. Sanders had nearly 50% of the democratic vote. That indicates to me a large number of people do understand the problems and their causes, and are seeking solutions.
Hillary lost not because she was too radical, but because she was more of the same. And creepy. With really high negatives.
Democrats stayed home because of her message, and her persona couldn't make up the difference.




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Monday, November 26, 2018 6:30 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

I think you're too entranced with your history to look at today. Sanders had nearly 50% of the democratic vote. That indicates to me a large number of people do understand the problems and their causes, and are seeking solutions.
Hillary lost not because she was too radical, but because she was more of the same. And creepy. With really high negatives.
Democrats stayed home because of her message, and her persona couldn't make up the difference.

And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

For one fact: Bernie lost to Hillary by 16,847,084 to 13,168,222, which is a bigger loss than Trump lost to Hillary. Did Democrats stay home because Hillary was running in the primary, 1kiki?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_Democratic_Party_presiden
tial_primaries,_2016


Another fact: Today, 43% of America approve of Trump. That's not just tolerate Trump. They are satisfied, they are giddy with Trump, despite him showing himself as an incompetent executive. Read the article to get a clear picture of how confused Trump is about budgets and taxes. You would think the 43% would have noticed, but you would be wrong:
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-demands-action-to-reduce-deficit
-pushes-new-deficit-spending/ar-BBQ4CBu?ocid=spartanntp


Pretty clearly, 43% of the country, after two long years of experience with Trump, are completely clueless. He won for the obvious reason that he satisfies Americans in a way that Bernie never could. Remember that Bernie couldn't even satisfy Democrats in the Democratic primary.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 26, 2018 7:52 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It's easy to be self-righteous while maintaining a safe distance from ridicule and danger.




I'll bet that was exactly what was going through Obama's mind when he was ordering drone strikes.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 26, 2018 10:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It's easy to be self-righteous while maintaining a safe distance from ridicule and danger.




I'll bet that was exactly what was going through Obama's mind when he was ordering drone strikes.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Despite President Barack Obama’s recent call to reduce the United States’ reliance on drones, they will likely remain his administration’s weapon of choice. Whereas President George W. Bush oversaw fewer than 50 drone strikes during his tenure, Obama has signed off on over 400 of them in the last four years, making the program the centerpiece of U.S. counterterrorism strategy. The drones have done their job remarkably well: by killing key leaders and denying terrorists sanctuaries in Pakistan, Yemen, and, to a lesser degree, Somalia, drones have devastated al Qaeda and associated anti-American militant groups. And they have done so at little financial cost, at no risk to U.S. forces, and with fewer civilian casualties than many alternative methods would have caused.

www.brookings.edu/articles/why-drones-work-the-case-for-washingtons-we
apon-of-choice
/

If the GOP insists that a President kill foreigners every week or else the GOP won't feel safe, drones are the way to go. Trump brings his own stupidity to life and death decisions:

Trump is seeking to loosen some Obama-era limits on drone attacks and ground raids outside conventional warzones, US media reports have said.

The New York Times, citing unnamed officials, reported on Thursday that Trump's top national security advisers have proposed relaxing two rules from the administration of Barack Obama, the former US president.

The officials said the targets of kill missions by the military and the CIA would be expanded to include foot-soldier fighters with no special skills or leadership roles.

The officials added that proposed drone attacks and raids would no longer undergo high-level vetting.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/loosen-obama-limits-drone-strikes-17092
2141205178.html


By September of last year, Trump's administration had reportedly approved new targeting rules for drone strikes called “Principles, Standards, and Procedures,” which dismantled several Barack Obama–era restrictions. What were the results?

“It’s a cowboy zone,” Bronwyn Bruton, the deputy director of the Atlantic Council’s Africa Center, said of the U.S. counterterrorism and state-building efforts in Somalia. “There is no grown-up in the room on the U.S. side, no senior official, who knows how to invest political capital into doing it right,” she added. Instead, those determining policy on the ground “want to go in and try new things and solve the problems, and they end up making things worse.” According to Bruton, Somalia has experienced a “toxic mix” of the worst of both Pentagon and State Department instincts. “The State Department’s worst instincts are to do cut-rate nation building on a fraction of the budget they used in Afghanistan,” she said. “In my view, the Pentagon’s worst instinct is the idea of ‘African solutions to African problems,’ which is to say, the U.S. wants to kill the bad guys in Somalia but doesn’t want to risk the lives of its own soldiers to do it.”

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/09/drone-somalia-al-sha
baab-al-qaeda-terrorist-africa-trump/569680
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 26, 2018 10:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Trump is seeking to loosen some Obama-era limits on drone attacks and ground raids outside conventional warzones, US media reports have said.

The New York Times, citing unnamed officials, reported on Thursday that Trump's top national security advisers have proposed relaxing two rules from the administration of Barack Obama, the former US president.



I wonder who said this is supposed to happen. The drone program was the brainchild of the CIA, not the military, and Obama- being a lover of the deep state- was all for anything that the CIA wanted.

So it was the CIA - not the military- which conducted the first few years of secret drone strikes that Obama (being the weasel that he is) had to finally admit to in 2013. Somehow, some of the authority over this secret program was shoveled onto JSOC, but that didn't improve transparency or accountability at all because the CIA was still half in charge and still classifying everything. https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/03/14/why-transferring-drone-progr
am-to-jsoc-doesnt-solve-all-problems
/

So, who's in charge of this program now? CIA? JSOC? Both? Neither?

If the CIA's still half in-charge, I doubt that Trump would promote the program, seeing as the CIA (and the FBI, MI6, and DNC) having been running a program against him since 2016. However, if the authority has been wrested from the CIA and put into the Pentagon, he might go along with it. Whether this is a credible leak depends on which of Trump's "top level" advisors leaked this particular tidbit: Was it a Trump loyalist, or one of the deep state holdovers still trying to make trouble?

You definitely can't believe every leak. Wait and look for corroboration, not listening what every anonymous person says.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, November 26, 2018 11:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, who's in charge of this program now? CIA? JSOC? Both? Neither?

If the CIA's still half in-charge, I doubt that Trump would promote the program, seeing as the CIA (and the FBI, MI6, and DNC) having been running a program against him since 2016. However, if the authority has been wrested from the CIA and put into the Pentagon, he might go along with it.

How about this explanation? All Americans (CIA, Pentagon, White House, whatever) love to pull the trigger and watch foreigners explode into a puff of smoke, but no Americans want to take responsibility for the deaths?

Though America’s drone war in Somalia has been shrouded in secrecy, in the past year and a half the number of American air strikes in Somalia have notably increased.

The noticeable uptick in strikes in Somalia came after President Donald Trump approved policy changes ending the limitation on drone strikes imposed by the Obama administration. In March 2017, Trump designated parts of Somalia an “area of active hostilities,” temporarily bringing them under less restrictive targeting rules.

As the Pentagon’s freedom to carry out drone strikes in Somalia has expanded, so too has the CIA’s authorities to conduct drone warfare in North Africa. According to a report from The New York Times published over the weekend, the CIA is set to conduct secret drone strikes in North Africa from a newly expanded base in the Sahara.

“Drone strikes may have a purpose, but they are no substitute for a political strategy,” Ken Menkhaus, a Somalia expert at Davidson College, told me. Al-Shabaab, he said, survives by exploiting the grievances of clans and other groups marginalized by an empowered elite. This “is fundamentally a political problem, not a military problem, and that requires a political solution and not a military solution,” he said.

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/09/drone-somalia-al-sha
baab-al-qaeda-terrorist-africa-trump/569680
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 26, 2018 11:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Though America’s drone war in Somalia has been shrouded in secrecy, in the past year and a half the number of American air strikes in Somalia have notably increased.
If "all Americans" (which BTW includes you. And me.) were so happy to pull the trigger, they wouldn't have to keep the program a secret.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, November 26, 2018 11:25 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Though America’s drone war in Somalia has been shrouded in secrecy, in the past year and a half the number of American air strikes in Somalia have notably increased.
If "all Americans" (which BTW includes you. And me.) were so happy to pull the trigger, they wouldn't have to keep the program a secret.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

Signym, you missed the point that those Americans pulling the trigger do NOT want to take responsibility for the deaths, but those Americans are happy to make foreigners go "Puff". Secrecy and irresponsibility go together like peanut butter and jelly on a sandwich slapped together by Trump.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 26, 2018 11:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yeah yeah. Whatever, SECOND.

Your constant bellyaching about "all Americans" is grotesque.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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