REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Thursday, July 19, 2018 14:41
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PAGE 7 of 31

Monday, January 8, 2018 1:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yeah. No shit.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, January 8, 2018 7:39 AM

THGRRI


Over $150,000 raised after Roy Moore accuser's home burns down in suspicious fire

Days after a Roy Moore accuser's Alabama house went up in flames, over $150,000 has been raised to help the woman's family rebuild.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/100000-raised-roy-moore-accusers-home-burns-s
uspicious/story?id=52192189



T

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Monday, January 8, 2018 11:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


“If Trump lies during this interview, he will be guilty of a felony.”
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/8/16862632/trump-russia-collusi
on-probe-investigation-mueller


President Donald Trump has repeatedly said he would testify under oath about possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia during the 2016 presidential election. But now it looks like Trump’s lawyers are worried about a potential interview with special counsel Robert Mueller — and are seeking ways to avoid it.

NBC News reports that Trump’s attorneys are in initial talks with federal investigators about how a possible interview might take place. Trump’s lawyers have suggested the president could provide written answers to Mueller’s questions instead of sitting down face-to-face with Mueller’s team. They’ve also floated the idea of not having the president take part in the interview at all.

But legal experts I spoke to doubt Mueller would settle for anything less than a sit-down with Trump. “I highly doubt that Mueller will accept written questions and answers,” Renato Mariotti, who served as a federal prosecutor from 2007 to 2016, told me in an interview. “Prosecutors are interested in a subject’s responses to detailed lines of questioning without the opportunity to have lawyers carefully craft their client’s answer.”

That means Trump may have no choice but to speak directly with federal investigators — and that could prove troublesome for a president who has problems with the truth.

“If Trump lies during this interview, he will be guilty of a felony,” Andy Wright, a professor at Savannah Law School, told me. . . .

That’s a lot Trump will have to try to explain — and do so honestly. That’s likely why Trump’s lawyers don’t want him to speak to Mueller. Trusting that a client will be able to keep his story straight and not make false statements — intentional or otherwise — during an interview with federal prosecutors is always a risky proposition, and doubly so when that client is Donald Trump.

Two members of Trump’s campaign — Flynn and Papadopoulos — have already pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators.

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Monday, January 8, 2018 1:51 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
“If Trump lies during this interview, he will be guilty of a felony.”

Trump’s lawyers have suggested the president could provide written answers to Mueller’s questions instead of sitting down face-to-face with Mueller’s team. They’ve also floated the idea of not having the president take part in the interview at all.

But legal experts I spoke to doubt Mueller would settle for anything less than a sit-down with Trump. “If Trump lies during this interview, he will be guilty of a felony,” Andy Wright, a professor at Savannah Law School, told me. . . .

That’s a lot Trump will have to try to explain — and do so honestly.

Two members of Trump’s campaign — Flynn and Papadopoulos — have already pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators.



The minute Trump opens his mouth with Mueller it's over. Tick tock, tick tock.




T

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Monday, January 8, 2018 3:02 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

The minute Trump opens his mouth with Mueller it's over. Tick tock, tick tock.

Trump will not testify. Instead, he'll tease 'em for months and it will end with him saying he would, but he can't, because Mueller is "biased". He would reveal his income tax returns, but he can't, because the IRS is auditing him. Remember his promise about his real estate holdings are going into a blind trust, but in the end, he can't?

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Monday, January 8, 2018 3:55 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

The minute Trump opens his mouth with Mueller it's over. Tick tock, tick tock.

Trump will not testify. Instead, he'll tease 'em for months and it will end with him saying he would, but he can't, because Mueller is "biased". He would reveal his income tax returns, but he can't, because the IRS is auditing him. Remember his promise about his real estate holdings are going into a blind trust, but in the end, he can't?



Mueller can and will subpoena him. This is, going to happen.



T

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Monday, January 8, 2018 4:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Mueller can and will subpoena him. This is, going to happen.

What's Mueller to do if Trump refuses to testify? Arrest Trump? Trump won't testify unless he is feeling suicidal or he deludes himself that he is not publicly naked like in the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. Bill Clinton is the only U.S. president to testify as the subject of a grand jury investigation. He testified for over four hours from the White House on closed-circuit television. And that was only after a four-year probe. Trump's probe won't even be a year old until May 2018.
www.politico.com/story/2016/08/this-day-in-politics-aug-17-1998-226998

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Monday, January 8, 2018 5:04 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Mueller can and will subpoena him. This is, going to happen.

What's Mueller to do if Trump refuses to testify? Arrest Trump? Trump won't testify unless he is feeling suicidal or he deludes himself that he is not publicly naked like in the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. Bill Clinton is the only U.S. president to testify as the subject of a grand jury investigation. He testified for over four hours from the White House on closed-circuit television. And that was only after a four-year probe. Trump's probe won't even be a year old until May 2018.
www.politico.com/story/2016/08/this-day-in-politics-aug-17-1998-226998]

We both know it will drag on until there is no way out for him but to refuse. Then the law kicks in and Mueller may be able to charge Trump with something. Congress can't prosecute but Mueller can. At any rate, think elections 2018 with Trump refusing to answer questions regarding russia under oath.


T

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Monday, January 8, 2018 8:09 PM

THGRRI


WASHINGTON — If Robert Mueller seeks to question President Donald Trump, could the White House successfully refuse to make him available?

Like anyone whose testimony is sought by grand jury subpoena in a criminal case, the president could cite his Fifth Amendment right not to testify against himself. Such a move, however, would carry significant political risk.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/trump-likely-could
-not-refuse-mueller-subpoena-answer-questions-n835921



T

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Monday, January 8, 2018 8:19 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Hiz megalomania mite convins him that he can sweet tok andor bully hiz way thru the hearing. He'z The Prezident! Mueller iz just a lowly employee!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Monday, January 8, 2018 9:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Mueller can and will subpoena him. This is, (sic) going to happen.

Preserved.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 6:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


This might be the best map of the 2016 election you ever see
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/8/16865532/2016-presidential-el
ection-map-xkcd



https://xkcd.com/1939/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 6:54 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Hiz megalomania mite convins him that he can sweet tok andor bully hiz way thru the hearing. He'z The Prezident! Mueller iz just a lowly employee!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com



Is that a nooalf typo, or do we not use "/" in nooalf?

Not being grammar police here. Just trying to learn the intricacies of your foreign language.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 6:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


It would be easy to prove that Trump is NOT a moron. A bright high school senior could do this, so the bar is set pretty low. You don’t need a full-scale crisis communications plan. This is all it would take:

Have Trump give a live TV interview in which he addresses policy issues in depth and shows that he has actual, demonstrable knowledge of a variety of topics. Points will be deducted for every meandering mention of (a) Hillary Clinton, (b) fake news, (c) his record-breaking election victory, (d) the FBI, (e) the unfairness of the Russia investigation, (f) his IQ, (g) collusion between Democrats and Russia.


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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:00 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I don't think Barry ever talked to the public without a teleprompter...

Except that one time he called his wife Michael.

Or when he was on his way to visit the 57th State.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't think Barry ever talked to the public without a teleprompter...

Except that one time he called his wife Michael.

Or when he was on his way to visit the 57th State.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I believe you are mistaken. If you search for Obama Interview in YouTube, there are about 6,610,000 results. He was not using a teleprompter.




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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


No thanks. Not interested in watching a bunch of Obama sycophants ask him a bunch of softball questions that he got in advance of the interview.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


His wife's name is Michael.



lol...

Sorry. I couldn't find this one in another video alone, but the second time he did it, it was even better.



Starts at 00:16


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 12:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No thanks. Not interested in watching a bunch of Obama sycophants ask him a bunch of softball questions that he got in advance of the interview.

Trump’s phony war with the press, explained.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/9/16854368/trump-fake-news

A genuine — but mutually beneficial — antagonism.

. . . the press isn’t going to do the work of an actual opposition party, which is to formulate a political alternative that an adequate number of people find to be sufficiently inspiring to go out and vote for. That’s the job of the Democratic Party, an institution that’s had considerable trouble attracting press attention to its own message and ideas ever since Trump exploded on the scene. And keeping the media focused on a self-referential feud between Trump and the media is a way of maintaining his preferred approach of trying to suck up all the oxygen in the room.

Meanwhile, what matters to Trump isn’t any actual crushing of the media, but simply driving the narrative in his core followers’ heads that the media is at war with him. With that pretense in place, critical coverage and unflattering facts can be dismissed even as Trump selectively courts the press to inject his own preferred ideas into the mainstream.

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 1:36 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Trump campaign had, perhaps less than inadvertently, replicated the scheme from Mel Brooks’s The Producers. In that classic, Brooks’s larcenous and dopey heroes, Max Bialystock and Leo Bloom, sell 25,000% of the ownership stakes in the Broadway show they are producing. Since they will be found out only if the show is a hit, everything about the show is premised on its being a flop. Accordingly, they create a show so outlandish ("Springtime for Hitler" in the movie) that it actually succeeds, thus dooming our heroes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Producers_(1967_film)

Many of the Trump administration’s current problems lie in this cracked foundation. Why release your tax returns if you’re never going to win? What’s the harm in sucking up to Russia’s government if you’re likelier to build a hotel in Moscow than to occupy the White House? Who needs to build a real policy operation, or work through a process of educating the candidate on major policy issues, if he’s never going to govern? Why concern yourself with conflicts of interest or business entanglements if they’re never going to matter?

But all of this raises the question: What was so awful about Trump?

“An idiot,” according to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin.

“A fucking idiot,” according to Rupert Murdoch.

“A fucking moron,” according to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson.

“A child,” according to former Deputy Chief of Staff Katie Walsh.

“A dope,” according to National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster.

“Dumb as shit,” according to National Economics Council Director Gary Cohn.

www.vox.com/explainers/2018/1/9/16860598/michael-wolff-fire-fury-donal
d-trump-book

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No thanks. Not interested in watching a bunch of Obama sycophants ask him a bunch of softball questions that he got in advance of the interview.

Trump’s phony war with the press, explained.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/9/16854368/trump-fake-news

A genuine — but mutually beneficial — antagonism.

. . . the press isn’t going to do the work of an actual opposition party, which is to formulate a political alternative that an adequate number of people find to be sufficiently inspiring to go out and vote for. That’s the job of the Democratic Party, an institution that’s had considerable trouble attracting press attention to its own message and ideas ever since Trump exploded on the scene. And keeping the media focused on a self-referential feud between Trump and the media is a way of maintaining his preferred approach of trying to suck up all the oxygen in the room.

Meanwhile, what matters to Trump isn’t any actual crushing of the media, but simply driving the narrative in his core followers’ heads that the media is at war with him. With that pretense in place, critical coverage and unflattering facts can be dismissed even as Trump selectively courts the press to inject his own preferred ideas into the mainstream.



Geez... stop quoting Vox please. It's as annoying as Sigs quoting zerohedge all the time.

That being said, people might stop accusing the MSM of having it out for Trump if the MSM would stop having it out for Trump. The only reason you don't see it is because you are the intended viewer for all of it. The one that wants a daily affirmation for your viewpoint.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 9:59 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


andor iz a useful word sorta missing from English. It iz spoken usually az 2 wordz and ritten with the /, so I am merely finishing the job by eliminating the /.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 6:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

people might stop accusing the MSM of having it out for Trump if the MSM would stop having it out for Trump. The only reason you don't see it is because you are the intended viewer for all of it. The one that wants a daily affirmation for your viewpoint.

What is your viewpoint on this meeting? The MSM got unexpectedly invited to watch it. Trump wanted to show that he hasn’t lost his marbles. But he had not done his reading before the meeting. Too much like work for him?



Watching the video from Trump’s confusing DACA meeting with Congress, Trump doesn’t understand the details and that’s a major problem. It’s about the Dreamers, but that’s all he knows.

There are five different proposals to enshrine DACA into law. For weeks, Republicans have been asking the White House for more clarity on what Trump’s vision for a DACA deal. But clarity was hard to come by on Tuesday. I’ve been in meetings and Trump was obviously winging it from one minute to the next. Maybe he just woke from a nap where he dreamed he had studied and was prepared to talk about the subject?

Sen. Dick Durbin has been on the front lines of Congress’s immigration debate for more than a decade, but after he left a meeting with Trump on the issue Tuesday, he said his “head is spinning.”

The takeaway here is simple: Looking to Trump isn’t going to get Republicans any closer to a deal on DACA. That’s a negotiation that has to happen among themselves, without Trump’s uninformed input.

Since Trump can't make up his mind, a judge did it for him:
Judge temporarily preserves DACA program, blocking Trump plan
www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Judge-temp
orarily-preserves-DACA-program-12485694.php


A federal judge temporarily ordered the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals Program to remain in place late Tuesday, hours after President Donald Trump said in a freewheeling exchange with a bipartisan group of lawmakers that an elusive deal to protect young immigrants brought into the country illegally as children could be within reach.

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
andor iz a useful word sorta missing from English. It iz spoken usually az 2 wordz and ritten with the /, so I am merely finishing the job by eliminating the /.



Thanks. I figured that might actually be the case. I actually use and/or quite a bit in the written word.

I might not be on board with all of nooalf, but I could back the andor word. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I might not be on board with all of nooalf, but I could back the andor word. :)

Andor used in a sentence: Trump to Blue States - Drop Dead andor Pound Sand

Florida governor Rick Scott, a Republican, is smiling. Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke has agreed to exempt Florida from new rules opening up offshore oil drilling everywhere else:

“I have witnessed Governor Scott's leadership through hurricane season and am working closely with him on Everglades restoration. He is a straightforward leader that can be trusted. President Trump has directed me to rebuild our offshore oil and gas program in a manner that supports our national energy policy and also takes into consideration the local and state voice. I support the governor's position that Florida is unique and its coasts are heavily reliant on tourism as an economic driver. As a result of discussion with Governor Scott's and his leadership, I am removing Florida from consideration for any new oil and gas platforms.” - Secretary Ryan Zinke

Secretary Ryan Zinke @SecretaryZinke
Read my full statement on taking #Florida off the table for offshore oil and gas. Local voice matters.

“Local voice matters.” But only as long as that voice is a Republican governor in an important swing state. West coast states with Democratic governors who didn’t vote for Donald Trump can pound sand. Ditto for Virginia, which opposes drilling off its coast. Ditto for northeastern states, all of which oppose drilling off their coasts. You guys didn’t vote for Trump, so tough luck.

To state the obvious, Trump gives friendly states explicitly favorable treatment and enemy states — this is how Trump seems to think of them — are punished. This attitude has already spread to Republicans in Congress, who crafted their tax bill with petty punishments of blue states as a top priority.

This is not — repeat not — something that Democrats have ever made a habit of. The stimulus bill treated every state fairly. Obamacare treated every state fairly. Even in judicial appointments, a favorite playground for partisan politics, every state was treated fairly. But now Republicans are doing their best to bring back the kind of frankly punitive spoils-system politics that we all thought had been long abandoned. We’re sure learning a lot these days about what “conservative” means in the 21st century.

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:10 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I might not be on board with all of nooalf, but I could back the andor word. :)

Andor used in a sentence: Trump to Blue States - Drop Dead andor Pound Sand





Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:42 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


When asked, "Do you think the 25th Amendment should be invoked to remove Donald Trump from office?" Jay Berman, who wrote the 25th Amendment, answers:

"No. At this moment, I don’t think he meets the test of a president who’s incapable of fulfilling his responsibilities. I think he was elected to do these dumb things. He hasn’t become dumber or meaner since he was elected — this is who he’s always been. This was who he was when he ran, and may well have been the reason people elected him."

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:30 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol

Joke's on you then, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

Joke's on you then, huh?

I laugh all the way to the bank because Hillary would never have signed a huge tax cut for me, but Trump did despite me not voting for him.

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 10:51 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Oh. We all know. You only tell us everyday about it.

This is just year 9 for me. Nothing has changed for the better or worse. Don't imagine it would have in the parallel universe where Hillary won either.

Enjoy that big tax break. Buy yourself something nice.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh. We all know. You only tell us everyday about it.

I don't recall telling my secret: The Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need by Andrew Tobias. The title is true. I bought this book when I was 25 and over the decades the money piled up.
https://thepiratebay.org/search/Tobias/0/99/0

You already know some lessons from Chapter 2: A Penny Saved Is Two Pennies Earned
“I walked home to save bus fare.” “Gee, you could have saved a lot more by not taking a taxi.” —OLD JOKE

You could jump to the Appendix: Still Not Sure What to Do?
If everything you’ve read so far leaves you unsure what to do, let me grab you by the hand and make it this simple: short of inheriting or marrying wealth, the surest way to become rich is to save all you can and invest it for long-term growth. If you save at least 10% of each paycheck and earn a 7% annual return, it will take just over 30 years to grow your nest egg to equal ten years of income. You can then quit work and, with a little kick from Social Security, stay at approximately the same standard of living for the rest of your life. Or keep working (or save even more) to build a yet more comfortable margin of safety.

How do I save 10% of income? If you have a retirement plan at work, just have a portion of your pay automatically shunted to it (namely, whatever portion the company matches with a contribution of its own). For the rest, instruct your bank to set up an automatic monthly transfer from your checking account to your investment account or Roth IRA. There are people in the world making 10% less than you who are not ragged and homeless. Live like them.

How do I earn 7% a year? This is the hard part, because the 7% has to be the real return, after taxes . . .

Read the book to find out.

The author, Andrew Tobias, was treasurer of the Democratic National Committee from 1999 until 2017. This is a thread for Democrats Only.

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


That's not a secret. That's investing 101.

Good advice giving the TPB link for the book though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 12, 2018 7:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Dollars, Cents and Republicans
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/dollars-cents-republican-sadism.htm
l


Democrats want to strengthen the social safety net. Republicans want to weaken it. Why?

G.O.P. opposition to programs, from food stamps to Medicaid, is usually framed in monetary terms. For example, Senator Orrin Hatch, challenged about Congress’s failure to take action on the Children’s Health Insurance Program, a part of Medicaid that covers nearly nine million children — and whose federal funding expired back in September — declared that “the reason CHIP’s having trouble is that we don’t have money anymore.”

But is it really about the money? No. Consider three stories about health care policies.

First, there’s the saga of Medicaid expansion under the Affordable Care Act. The Supreme Court allowed states to opt out of this expansion. But accepting expansion should have been a no-brainer for every state: The federal government would initially pay the full cost, and even in the long run it would pay 90 percent, meanwhile bringing money and jobs into state economies.

Yet 18 states — all of them with Republican-controlled legislatures, governors or both — still haven’t expanded Medicaid. Why?

For a while you could argue that it was about cynical political strategy: Medicaid expansion was a policy of Barack Obama, and Republican state governors didn’t want to give a Democratic president any policy successes. But that story can’t explain states’ continuing resistance to the idea of providing health coverage to thousands of their own citizens at minimal cost.

No, at this point it’s clear that G.O.P. state governors are actually willing to hurt their own states’ economies to deny access to health care.

Second, there’s the issue of work requirements for Medicaid. Some states have been petitioning for years for the right to force Medicaid recipients to take jobs, and this week the Trump administration declared that it would allow them to do so. But what was driving this demand?

The reality is that a vast majority of adult Medicaid recipients are in families where at least one adult is working. And a vast majority of those who aren’t working have very good reasons for not being in the labor force: They’re disabled, they’re caregivers to other family members or they’re students. The population of Medicaid recipients who “ought” to be working but aren’t is very small, and the money that states could save by denying them coverage is trivial.

Oh, and of the 10 states reportedly seeking to impose work requirements, six have accepted the A.C.A. Medicaid expansion, which means that most of the money they could save by kicking people off would be federal, not state, dollars. So what’s this about?

The answer, surely, is that it isn’t about the governor saving state money.

Finally, there’s the case of children’s health insurance. Again, federal funding expired back in September, and millions of children will lose coverage soon if that funding isn’t restored. So what will it cost the Treasury if Congress does what it should have done months ago, and restores funding? The answer, according to the Congressional Budget Office, is — nothing. Or actually less than nothing. In fact, a 10-year extension of CHIP funding would save the government $6 billion.

How is this possible, given the roughly $14 billion a year CHIP currently spends on health? The key point, laid out in a budget office analysis a few months ago, is that many (but not all) families whose children are currently covered by CHIP could alternatively be covered by subsidized private insurance through the Obamacare exchanges.

Private insurance is, however, considerably more expensive than Medicaid, which uses its bargaining power to hold down costs. (The cost of private insurance has gone up even further now that Republicans have repealed the individual mandate, worsening the risk pool.) As a result, subsidies for private insurance would end up costing more than the direct coverage children currently get through CHIP.

And don’t imagine that, because many children thrown off CHIP would find alternative sources of coverage, the kids would be alright. For one thing, a significant number wouldn’t get covered: The number of uninsured kids would rise substantially. Furthermore, private insurance, which often involves large out-of-pocket expenses, is much worse than CHIP for lower-income families.

So Republican foot-dragging on CHIP, like opposition to Medicaid expansion and the demand for work requirements, isn’t about the money. Making lower-income Americans worse off has become a goal in itself for the modern G.O.P., a goal the party is actually willing to spend money and increase deficits to achieve.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, January 12, 2018 8:01 AM

THGRRI


Ex-Union Boss Calls Trump A ‘Con Man’ And ‘Liar’ As Carrier Lays Off 215 More Workers

A former Steelworkers union boss has blasted Donald Trump as a “con man,” an “idiot” and a “liar” as Indianapolis air-conditioning and furnace company Carrier Corp. laid off 215 more workers Thursday. The company has sent a third of its jobs to Mexico since Trump boasted a year ago about a $7 million state tax incentive deal for the company to keep jobs in the U.S.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-liar-carrier-layoffs_us_5a5
7e57ee4b0720dc4c59342?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009



T

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Friday, January 12, 2018 10:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Ex-Union Boss Calls Trump A ‘Con Man’ And ‘Liar’ As Carrier Lays Off 215 More Workers

It was common during 2016 for Republican senators to be sharply critical of Trump — Marco Rubio (R-FL) called him a “con artist,” and Ted Cruz (R-TX) called him “totally amoral,” while according to Lindsey Graham (R-SC), “if we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed [...] and we will deserve it.” Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) decided to take the unusual measure of standing by his election-year criticisms of Trump even after Trump won. Last fall, for example, he told the mayor of Mesa, Arizona, that if the GOP becomes “the party of Roy Moore and Donald Trump, we are toast.” His criticisms of Trump didn’t come from a standpoint of ideology but rather from a stance that Trump is personally intemperate.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, January 12, 2018 7:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Where was huffington post for 8 years when this country was loosing 10's of thousands of good jobs during the Obama administration? lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 12, 2018 8:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Ex-Union Boss Calls Trump A ‘Con Man’ And ‘Liar’ As Carrier Lays Off 215 More Workers

It was common during 2016 for Republican senators to be sharply critical of Trump — Marco Rubio (R-FL) called him a “con artist,” and Ted Cruz (R-TX) called him “totally amoral,” while according to Lindsey Graham (R-SC), “if we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed [...] and we will deserve it.” Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) decided to take the unusual measure of standing by his election-year criticisms of Trump even after Trump won. Last fall, for example, he told the mayor of Mesa, Arizona, that if the GOP becomes “the party of Roy Moore and Donald Trump, we are toast.” His criticisms of Trump didn’t come from a standpoint of ideology but rather from a stance that Trump is personally intemperate.
y

Rubio and Cruz were fellow contenders for the Nomination in the campaign year of 2016, exaggerated quotes are expected.
Quotes from The Usual Suspects of RINOs who cannot find enough microphones to spout for, like Graham and Flake, are even more useless.

A little context could make your posts less useless. Perhaps you could provide Oprah's take on each of your political topics?

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Friday, January 12, 2018 8:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Where was huffington post for 8 years when this country was loosing 10's of thousands of good jobs during the Obama administration? lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

HuffPost spent 8 years shoveling Obama's shit. And they still are.

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Saturday, January 13, 2018 8:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Rubio and Cruz were fellow contenders for the Nomination in the campaign year of 2016, exaggerated quotes are expected.
Quotes from The Usual Suspects of RINOs who cannot find enough microphones to spout for, like Graham and Flake, are even more useless.

A little context could make your posts less useless. Perhaps you could provide Oprah's take on each of your political topics?

The context is that Ted Cruz did not endorse Trump even at the Republican Convention. Cruz got booed there. If Cruz is to be reelected to the Senate, he can't keep reminding Texans that Trump is amoral. Trump has not become moral; Cruz has stopped pointing to Trump's morals.

For two easy examples of Trump's amorality, there is story about Trump's lawyer paying $130,000 to a porn star in today's newspaper. Trump denies knowing Stephanie Clifford. He also denies calling countries "shitholes" on the same front page. As JewelStaiteFan said, "A little context could make your posts less useless." That's context on Trump and why Cruz stopped talking about Trump's morality. It doesn't change Trump's behavior and it hurts Cruz, so why would Cruz talk about it?


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Saturday, January 13, 2018 8:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Democrats should be willing to prosecute banksters for fraud, rein in the Fed, negotiate with drug companies for lower prices, increase manufacturing at home, and stop meddling abroad. Don't forget SECOND that under Saint Obama, the wealth gap kept increasing at the same rate as under Bush.

If I'm to believe the numbers, instead of the propaganda, when I see that trend reverse thanks to Democrats, THEN I'll believe that they have our interests at heart, Until then, it's all just DNC mouthing pious words and stupid people believing them

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, January 13, 2018 9:31 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Democrats should be willing to prosecute banksters for fraud, rein in the Fed, negotiate with drug companies for lower prices, increase manufacturing at home, and stop meddling abroad. Don't forget SECOND that under Saint Obama, the wealth gap kept increasing at the same rate as under Bush.

If I'm to believe the numbers, instead of the propaganda, when I see that trend reverse thanks to Democrats, THEN I'll believe that they have our interests at heart, Until then, it's all just DNC mouthing pious words and stupid people believing them

Signym, your premise is that a President can change those things, but he can't in 8 years. Congress could, given a few years, but it won't. So long as there are 34 or more Republicans (or 34 Democrats) in the Senate, none of your hoped for changes will occur. It's the way the Constitution was written and the rules of the Senate.

None of Signym's complaints can be fixed unless either the USA has a Parliament and 51% of the MPs are in a coalition that shares Signym's values or, under the existing Constitution, one party that agrees with Signym gets 67% of the seats in Congress. Trump can't fix it. Obama couldn't, either. The President never had the power to repair what ails the USA. We can't get 51% of the voters to agree with what is wrong, so it's not likely Congress will agree, either.

The majority is unhappy, but they can't agree what they are unhappy about. Is it too many foreigners in the USA? Minimum wage too low? Too many imports? Not enough government services or benefits? Too many prisoners? The wealthy are too wealthy? The poor too poor? The Pentagon budget too big? There is no majority agreement on anything important. And, this is the biggest requirement that voters need to live up to --- whatever the voters agreed to has to last longer than a one-day election. Whatever the majority of voters decide, the voters have to stand behind their decision for years. They can't just flip to the opposite side the next year and still expect that their opinion will be turned into reality by Congress.

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Saturday, January 13, 2018 5:34 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Signym, your premise is that a President can change those things ..."

Funny, Signy wasn't talking about PRESIDENTS, but about DEMOCRATS, and the stupid people who believe them. Care to try addressing the actual argument?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, January 14, 2018 4:08 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:Don't forget SECOND that under Saint Obama, the wealth gap kept increasing at the same rate as under Bush.


There he iz rite there!

And, to Sigz point, McConnel & frendz blocking absolutely everything Obama wanted relievez him uv any blame.

We can ritely ask 'where woud we be IF the republicanz allowed Obama'z infrastructure program' and the obvious ansr iz that the economy woud hav taken off like a rocket! The stoopid gops dont get to claim 'slowest recovery in history'.

We can ritely ask 'how much more competativ woud American manufacturerz be if they werent burdened with the employer based health insurans monstrosity'. The obvious ansr iz that American companyz woud be on top uv the world!

Apply that to EVERYTHING Obama wanted to do and you can see why the Republican party needz to be disbanded and all the congressmen and senatorz tossed in jail or deported.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:30 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Signym, your premise is that a President can change those things ..."

Funny, Signy wasn't talking about PRESIDENTS, but about DEMOCRATS, and the stupid people who believe them. Care to try addressing the actual argument?




Quote:

sig

Don't forget SECOND that under Saint Obama, the wealth gap kept increasing at the same rate as under Bush.



Instead 1kiki, why don't you stop selectively reading what others post. Then you can respond intelligently instead of like an ass.



T

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Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:33 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:Don't forget SECOND that under Saint Obama, the wealth gap kept increasing at the same rate as under Bush.


There he iz rite there!

And, to Sigz point, McConnel & frendz blocking absolutely everything Obama wanted relievez him uv any blame.

We can ritely ask 'where woud we be IF the republicanz allowed Obama'z infrastructure program' and the obvious ansr iz that the economy woud hav taken off like a rocket! The stoopid gops dont get to claim 'slowest recovery in history'.

We can ritely ask 'how much more competativ woud American manufacturerz be if they werent burdened with the employer based health insurans monstrosity'. The obvious ansr iz that American companyz woud be on top uv the world!

Apply that to EVERYTHING Obama wanted to do and you can see why the Republican party needz to be disbanded and all the congressmen and senatorz tossed in jail or deported.



All true JO.


T

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Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:52 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Signym, your premise is that a President can change those things ..."

Funny, Signy wasn't talking about PRESIDENTS, but about DEMOCRATS, and the stupid people who believe them. Care to try addressing the actual argument?

Signym's actual argument goes exactly like this:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Democrats should be willing to prosecute banksters for fraud, rein in the Fed, negotiate with drug companies for lower prices, increase manufacturing at home, and stop meddling abroad. Don't forget SECOND that under Saint Obama, the wealth gap kept increasing at the same rate as under Bush.

If I'm to believe the numbers, instead of the propaganda, when I see that trend reverse thanks to Democrats, THEN I'll believe that they have our interests at heart, Until then, it's all just DNC mouthing pious words and stupid people believing them

One hundred percent of Democrats in Congress would vote for removing Trump. But Democrats don't control 67% of Congress, so even with 100% of Democrats wanting it, that won't happen because the GOP doesn't want it to happen.

As for Signym's goals, the Democrats aren't 100% for any. They might be 99%. So Signym's goals are even less possible than removing Trump because the Republicans in Congress will be 100% against anything from the Democrats. It is how the math works based on the Constitution, the rules of Congress, and the crazy GOP.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, January 14, 2018 8:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Democrats don't control 67% of Congress


Strange, you've come around to what I was pointing out to you two years ago.

governors

state senates

state houses

senate

house

president


This didn't happen overnight.

What are democrats doing wrong?






HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, January 15, 2018 7:43 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
... crazy GOP.



Completely subjective. To many people in the country, the Democrats have gone off the reservation.


Fix your own house before you keep bitching about it.

I've never been happy with the GOP my entire life, but there ain't no way I'm voting Democrat until they fix their shit. Talk to T about it. It's one of the very few things we actually agree on.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 16, 2018 12:55 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


www.theparisreview.org/blog/2018/01/15/remembering-martin-luther-kings
-radical-class-politics
/

In a posthumously published essay, Martin Luther King, Jr. pointed out that the “black revolution” had gone beyond the “rights of Negroes.” The struggle, he said, is “forcing America to face all of its interrelated flaws—racism, poverty, militarism and materialism. It is exposing the evils that are rooted deeply in the whole structure of our society. It reveals systemic rather than superficial flaws and suggests that radical reconstruction of society itself is the real issue to be faced.”

But it had not started out that way. Over the course of a decade, the black struggle opened up a deeper interrogation of U.S. society, and King’s politics traversed the same course.

Indeed, in the early 1960s, the Southern movement coalesced around the clearly defined demands to end Jim Crow segregation and secure the right of African Americans to unfettered access to the franchise. With clear targets and barometers for progress or failure, a broad social movement was able to uproot these systems of oppression. King was lauded as a tactician as well as someone who could articulate the grievances and aspirations of black Southerners.

But despite the successful example of nonviolent civil disobedience across the South, it appeared to have little, if any, lasting impact on the edifice of racial discrimination that defined black life elsewhere. Indeed, the seeming permanence of black marginalization across the United States produced hundreds of urban uprisings in the middle of the 1960s. If King’s strategic genius in the South was deploying nonviolent civil disobedience to disarm Southern racists while coercing the political establishment into securing first-class citizen rights, it was a strategy that ultimately failed in cities such as Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Washington, D.C. In those places, obnoxious signs of Jim Crow were not the problem; rather, it was the insidious but obscured actions of the real-estate broker, the banker, the employer, the police officer, and other agents that maintained racial inequality.

As King’s attention drifted from the South to the entrenched northern ghettos, he faced denunciations and chastisement from former allies in the North. These people had supported him so long as he confined his demands to ending legal discrimination. Indeed, because Southern racism was rendered as antiquated and regressive, King was celebrated for helping to pull the South toward progress and modernity. But even as the civil rights movement was valorized for its intervention in the South, it was demonized when it brought its call for black power and liberation to the North—a dynamic that continues to the present day.

In King’s time, institutions in the North that preached racial neutrality but that were wholly complicit in racial subjugation appeared impervious to tactics that used confrontation and embarrassment to compel change. King was forced to reconceive his strategy.

www.theparisreview.org/blog/2018/01/15/remembering-martin-luther-kings
-radical-class-politics
/

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Tuesday, January 16, 2018 8:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yeah...

Kind of makes one wonder if the Civil War was about the "good guys" in the North trying to end slavery like we were taught in public school, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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