REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Knowingly exposing others to HIV will no longer be a felony in California

POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 10, 2017 21:26
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Sunday, October 8, 2017 6:41 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


diseased and crazy Commiefornia lowers penalty for exposing partners to HIV

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics
-updates-gov-brown-downgrades-from-felony-to-1507331544-htmlstory.html


A state run by Hollyweird & regressive Leftism, where illegals are seen as the future, where criminals are seen as victims and victims of criminals are seen as bigots.

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Sunday, October 8, 2017 9:41 AM

6STRINGJOKER


That's probably something that the Big Pharm lobbyists were paying big money to the California politicians to get pushed through.

HIV is't the death sentence that it used to be. It is another lifetime drug customer though, and you can get them really young with this one.

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Sunday, October 8, 2017 11:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
diseased and crazy Commiefornia lowers penalty for exposing partners to HIV

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics
-updates-gov-brown-downgrades-from-felony-to-1507331544-htmlstory.html


A state run by Hollyweird & regressive Leftism, where illegals are seen as the future, where criminals are seen as victims and victims of criminals are seen as bigots.

I'm a bit surprised somebody in CA woke up.
Do you even know what it means to expose somebody to HIV?

Or how to test for it?

Do you also support the ban on DHMO?

Perhaps you object to the rounding of the Earth as well.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 9:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I know someone who got HIV from a sexual encounter. The guy who gave it to him was a real asswipe, and the person who got it didn't deserve getting it because of one distraught encounter.

So I was prepared to post that it should remain a felony, but then I read the law. Badly written, trips up on two key points: "knowingly" and "exposing". Especially the "exposing" part, because the law criminalizes having sex with someone ("exposing" them) if you're HIV positive, EVEN IF you're on antivirals and your viral load is so low as to make transmission extremely unlikely. No other disease is treated that way.

What about criminalizing disease transmission (not exposure)? I realize that it would be very difficult to prove: the victim would have to have a very limited list of sexual contacts, of whom only one could be the vector. But then, if you have lots of sexual partners, don't take precautions, and don't ask about HIV status, you'd be at such high risk the law probably shouldn't protect you anyway. Just a thought.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, October 9, 2017 3:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



After all the tears shed about how devastating AIDS was to the gay community, particularly in SF , and other communities, and how much hell was raised about how our govt didn't show any compassion by raising awareness, the vitriol directed towards certain people and politicians, THIS is how CA ends up dealing w/ this issue ?

It's nothing short of true, deranged madness.

Stupid beyond words.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 6:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

After all the tears shed about how devastating AIDS was to the gay community, particularly in SF , and other communities, and how much hell was raised about how our govt didn't show any compassion by raising awareness, the vitriol directed towards certain people and politicians, THIS is how CA ends up dealing w/ this issue ?

It's nothing short of true, deranged madness.

Stupid beyond words.

All of that angst and outrage was reserved for 1981-1992.
Remember how 1/3 of the world population was going to die before 1990 due to that mythical AIDS Religion?
And the "scientific" way to test for the hypothetical illness was to check that the Antibody was present, thus proving the Immune System was fully functional?
Some people claim that eventually they will prove that the proposed illness really does exist. It's only been about 34 years since the original hypothesis was disproven.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 7:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


jsf

You posted some of the most ignorant words I've ever seen.

Just because you have antibodies doesn't mean your immune system is 'fully functional'. Unfortunately, those antibodies aren't what are called 'neutralizing' antibodies. Instead, they react to external non-essential viral proteins that have nothing to do with whether or not the virus can replicate and spread from cell to cell. So, despite those antibodies, the virus does just fine in people.

HIV was a death sentence, a fact only changed by antiviral medicines, that people must take for life. Which, btw, is inevitably shortened, either due to the virus or the medications.

As for HIV/ AIDS being disproven - you DO know that Koch's postulates have been repeatedly demonstrated to be met - right?

OH! You mean you don't know what Koch's postulates are?

Maybe you better educate yourself.





Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 8:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
jsf

You posted some of the most ignorant words I've ever seen.

Just because you have antibodies doesn't mean your immune system is 'fully functional'. Unfortunately, those antibodies aren't what are called 'neutralizing' antibodies. Instead, they react to external non-essential viral proteins that have nothing to do with whether or not the virus can replicate and spread from cell to cell. So, despite those antibodies, the virus does just fine in people.

HIV was a death sentence, a fact only changed by antiviral medicines, that people must take for life. Which, btw, is inevitably shortened, either due to the virus or the medications.

As for HIV/ AIDS being disproven - you DO know that Koch's postulates have been repeatedly demonstrated to be met - right?

OH! You mean you don't know what Koch's postulates are?

Maybe you better educate yourself

That is a wacky
dodge you tried there. Not sure if your knee jerked, or if you need your meds refilled.
For shorthand, let's use a wiki reference for Koch's Postulates.
First, KP is not applicable to s virus, and according to your religion a virus is the causative agent.
Next, KP #1 has been disproven many times regarding the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim to self-support the myth says #1 does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #2 has never been proven with the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim is that #2 CANNOT be proven for a virus, which AIDS Cultists claim is the causative agent.
Next, KP #3 has been disproven every time scientific practices have been adhered to, starting with the original hypothesyser Dr Peter Duesberg disproving his theory in 8 months. But wait, the claim to self-support the predetermined conclusions says that #3 also does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #4 cannot and gas never been proven, because the first 3 cannot be, thus the totality of KP has no credibility.

So, all 4 of Koch's Postulates have been disproven regarding your religion, and also it is claimed that Koch's Postulates cannot be applied to HIV.

So, why do you make false claims by referencing an invalid standard?

That makes no sense.

Yes, people who consume the lethal drug cocktails for the mythical HIV illness will have shorter lives. That AZT one was a doozy. It was known to be 6,000 times more lethal than cancer, which it was designed and created for, but those gay activists gobbled it up, and guess what? They died. Shazam! Surprise, surprise.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 8:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
jsf

You posted some of the most ignorant words I've ever seen.

Just because you have antibodies doesn't mean your immune system is 'fully functional'. Unfortunately, those antibodies aren't what are called 'neutralizing' antibodies. Instead, they react to external non-essential viral proteins that have nothing to do with whether or not the virus can replicate and spread from cell to cell. So, despite those antibodies, the virus does just fine in people.

HIV was a death sentence, a fact only changed by antiviral medicines, that people must take for life. Which, btw, is inevitably shortened, either due to the virus or the medications.

As for HIV/ AIDS being disproven - you DO know that Koch's postulates have been repeatedly demonstrated to be met - right?

OH! You mean you don't know what Koch's postulates are?

Maybe you better educate yourself

That is a wacky dodge you tried there. Not sure if your knee jerked, or if you need your meds refilled.
For shorthand, let's use a wiki reference for Koch's Postulates.
First, KP is not applicable to s virus, and according to your religion a virus is the causative agent.
Next, KP #1 has been disproven many times regarding the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim to self-support the myth says #1 does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #2 has never been proven with the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim is that #2 CANNOT be proven for a virus, which AIDS Cultists claim is the causative agent.
Next, KP #3 has been disproven every time scientific practices have been adhered to, starting with the original hypothesyser Dr Peter Duesberg disproving his theory in 8 months. But wait, the claim to self-support the predetermined conclusions says that #3 also does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #4 cannot and gas never been proven, because the first 3 cannot be, thus the totality of KP has no credibility.

So, all 4 of Koch's Postulates have been disproven regarding your religion, and also it is claimed that Koch's Postulates cannot be applied to HIV.

So, why do you make false claims by referencing an invalid standard?

That makes no sense.

Yes, people who consume the lethal drug cocktails for the mythical HIV illness will have shorter lives. That AZT one was a doozy. It was known to be 6,000 times more lethal than cancer, which it was designed and created for, but those gay activists gobbled it up, and guess what? They died. Shazam! Surprise, surprise.

At least your are consistent in your abidance of the illogic of your religion. The standard hallmark has always been "oh, science does not apply to HIV because it is the exception, and because science does not exist in our religion, we continue to believe that AIDS really really does exist."
Despite all evidence to the contrary.

Just because government requires that normal deaths must be reported and recorded as the self-prophecized deaths of your religious Armageddon, does not mean anybody actually died from the mythical fantasy.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 9:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

First, KP is not applicable to s virus, and according to your religion a virus is the causative agent.
According to ... you?

Koch's Postulates

Four criteria that were established by Robert Koch to identify the causative agent of a particular disease, these include:

the microorganism or other pathogen must be present in all cases of the disease
the pathogen can be isolated from the diseased host and grown in pure culture
the pathogen from the pure culture must cause the disease when inoculated into a healthy, susceptible laboratory animal
the pathogen must be reisolated from the new host and shown to be the same as the originally inoculated pathogen

Certainly the HIV can be isolated from all cases. Check one.

ALL viruses - not just HIV - can't be grown in pure culture. That's because viruses need living cells to replicate. That's a well-known and very general limitation. DO YOU CLAIM THAT NO VIRUS CAN BE ESTABLISHED AS THE CAUSE OF A DISEASE? Do you deny that the rabies virus causes rabies, or the smallpox virus causes smallpox, that the Ebola virus causes hemorrhagic fever, or influenza type A virus causes the flu? Because they, along with every other virus, fail Koch's postulate. You must deny that ALL VIRUSES cause any disease, if you're to be consistent and adhere to YOUR denialism.
(Koch's postulates also fail for a number of bacteria that can't be successfully cultured as well, but that's another topic.)

Nevertheless, HIV can be cultured in tissue cultures, and purified, the same way other viruses can be cultured, and purified. And while human experimentation is frowned on, macaques make good test subjects. This shows that when you inject HIV into suitable animals, they become infected.

And when you remove the virus, purify it, and reinject it into new animals, they, too, will acquire the infection.

And so, with the very general virus exception, HIV meets Koch's postulates.




Any questions?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, October 9, 2017 11:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

First, KP is not applicable to s virus, and according to your religion a virus is the causative agent.
According to ... you?

Koch's Postulates

Four criteria that were established by Robert Koch to identify the causative agent of a particular disease, these include:

the microorganism or other pathogen must be present in all cases of the disease
the pathogen can be isolated from the diseased host and grown in pure culture
the pathogen from the pure culture must cause the disease when inoculated into a healthy, susceptible laboratory animal
the pathogen must be reisolated from the new host and shown to be the same as the originally inoculated pathogen

Certainly the HIV can be isolated from all cases. Check one.

what? Are you referring to one of the 4 Postulates? If so, which one?
Quote:

ALL viruses - not just HIV - can't be grown in pure culture. That's because viruses need living cells to replicate. That's a well-known and very general limitation. DO YOU CLAIM THAT NO VIRUS CAN BE ESTABLISHED AS THE CAUSE OF A DISEASE? Do you deny that the rabies virus causes rabies, or the smallpox virus causes smallpox, that the Ebola virus causes hemorrhagic fever, or influenza type A virus causes the flu?
pay attention now
Quote:

Because they, along with every other virus, fail Koch's postulate.
so you admit to intentionally referencing a standard which cannot adequately test, and completely fails to differentiate or discriminate between real or false hypothesis.
Quote:

You must deny that ALL VIRUSES cause any disease, if you're to be consistent and adhere to YOUR denialism.
(Koch's postulates also fail for a number of bacteria that can't be successfully cultured as well, but that's another topic.)

Nevertheless, HIV can be cultured in tissue cultures, and purified, the same way other viruses can be cultured, and purified. And while human experimentation is frowned on, macaques make good test subjects. This shows that when you inject HIV into suitable animals, they become infected.

And when you remove the virus, purify it, and reinject it into new animals, they, too, will acquire the infection.

And so, with the very general virus exception, HIV meets Koch's postulates.

Any questions?

You selecting only the portions of KP which support your predetermined conclusions, while disregarding and ignoring the portions which fail your argument, is not a bolster to your claim.
I fair clear specified that wiki was the handy common source that I was referring to. If you wish to correct wiki, lettuce know when you succeed.

And your attempts to indicate that HIV has been found in humans identified as HIV-positive by merely implying so is a lame dodge around the fact that it is untrue.

If you are interested in discussing without lies, then lay out your claims and beliefs, but leave the lies in other threads. I'm always interested in hearing new facts about this religion.

No need to deny:
HIV-positive humans don't get Immune Deficiency unless treated for HIV.
Not all deaths attributed, recorded, or reported as AIDS had either HIV or were HIV-positive (meaning the Immune System generated the HIV Antibody.)
HIV is not found in HIV-positive humans.
There is no cause and effect relationship between HIV and human Immune Deficiency death, except for HIV-negative humans.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


JSF, were you around for the beginning of the AIDS epidemic? Because I was, and I clearly remember people getting sick and dying BEFORE ever being "treated" for AIDS.

Good lord, everything you posted about AIDS is bass akwards. I know that you don't like scientific orthodoxy, but there comes a point when you just have to recognize that the earth really is roundish.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:15 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF, were you around for the beginning of the AIDS epidemic? Because I was, and I clearly remember people getting sick and dying BEFORE ever being "treated" for AIDS.

Good lord, everything you posted about AIDS is bass akwards. I know that you don't like scientific orthodoxy, but there comes a point when you just have to recognize that the earth really is roundish.

Yes I was. I recall the hysteria well.

There were deaths, every single one from a previously known ailment, and from well documented causes.

Good to hear you have finally put aside your belief in Flat Earth, and now you can do the same with your HIV myth.
Did you also believe everything the "AIDS Czar" said, the clown who was repeatedly found to have perpetrated Scientific Fraud, BEFORE becoming "AIDS Czar"?

Did you have one specific ailment in mind, of the 56 known ailments which were conglomerated into the newly manufactured "AIDS" pretend illness?

Sorry to have woken you from your nap.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 12:55 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

You selecting only the portions of KP which support your predetermined conclusions
No, I selected the entire list from wiki, as a reference everyone with a computer can access. Don't believe me? Here's the link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch%27s_postulates

How about YOUR references? Got any? I suspect not.

BTW - SINCE YOU'RE BLATANTLY LYING - I didn't bother reading any further.

And, I'm going to have to see some OT up-to-date links before I bother reading anything else. Because frankly, your tripe is not worth the waste of time.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:06 AM

OONJERAH


Knowingly exposing others to HIV will be a misdemeanor in California.

They could just have HIV clubs, so carriers can share with each other.


hmmmm.. not Romantic enough?
... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Knowingly exposing others to HIV will be a misdemeanor in California.
They could just have HIV clubs, so carriers can share with each other.
hmmmm.. not Romantic enough?



Let's say I have a multiply-drug-resistant form of TB, and I take a bus, potentially exposing others. Should I be charged with a felony because I didn't quarantine myself?

Or I have Hep C and knowingly donate blood, or share needles?

Or maybe I have Ebola, and fly on an airplane to seek treatment?

I'm trying to think of an analogy to another disease. How SHOULD we treat people with communicable diseases ... carriers, for example, like Typhoid Mary ... who don't take proper precautions to stop spreading their disease?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF, were you around for the beginning of the AIDS epidemic? Because I was, and I clearly remember people getting sick and dying BEFORE ever being "treated" for AIDS.

Good lord, everything you posted about AIDS is bass akwards. I know that you don't like scientific orthodoxy, but there comes a point when you just have to recognize that the earth really is roundish.

Yes I was. I recall the hysteria well.

There were deaths, every single one from a previously known ailment, and from well documented causes.

Good to hear you have finally put aside your belief in Flat Earth, and now you can do the same with your HIV myth.
Did you also believe everything the "AIDS Czar" said, the clown who was repeatedly found to have perpetrated Scientific Fraud, BEFORE becoming "AIDS Czar"?

Did you have one specific ailment in mind, of the 56 known ailments which were conglomerated into the newly manufactured "AIDS" pretend illness?

Sorry to have woken you from your nap.

Of course, no links, and nothing to back it up.

I also remember the "alternate theories" of AIDS .... "gay lifestyle" ... bad nutrition ... exposure to multiple diseases ... amyl nitrate ... but the proof of the pudding is that NONE of these approaches was effective at treating the disease. Better nutrition and eliminating amyl nitrate didn't save a single person from death. That's how you figure our whether a hypothesis is good or not: you put it to the test.

When ANY treatments based on these alternate theories reliably treats people with HIV/ AIDS, come back and tell us about it. Better yet, let the survivors tell us themselves. But so far, you'll have to dig people from the grave to promote these alternative hypotheses.


*****

At SOME point, ya just gotta go with the evidence, no matter how much you hate it for ideological reasons.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 4:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
JSF, were you around for the beginning of the AIDS epidemic? Because I was, and I clearly remember people getting sick and dying BEFORE ever being "treated" for AIDS.

Good lord, everything you posted about AIDS is bass akwards. I know that you don't like scientific orthodoxy, but there comes a point when you just have to recognize that the earth really is roundish.

Yes I was. I recall the hysteria well.

There were deaths, every single one from a previously known ailment, and from well documented causes.

Good to hear you have finally put aside your belief in Flat Earth, and now you can do the same with your HIV myth.
Did you also believe everything the "AIDS Czar" said, the clown who was repeatedly found to have perpetrated Scientific Fraud, BEFORE becoming "AIDS Czar"?

Did you have one specific ailment in mind, of the 56 known ailments which were conglomerated into the newly manufactured "AIDS" pretend illness?

Sorry to have woken you from your nap.

Of course, no links, and nothing to back it up.

I also remember the "alternate theories" of AIDS .... "gay lifestyle" ... bad nutrition ... exposure to multiple diseases ... amyl nitrate ... but the proof of the pudding is that NONE of these approaches was effective at treating the disease. Better nutrition and eliminating amyl nitrate didn't save a single person from death. That's how you figure our whether a hypothesis is good or not: you put it to the test.

When ANY treatments based on these alternate theories reliably treats people with HIV/ AIDS, come back and tell us about it. Better yet, let the survivors tell us themselves. But so far, you'll have to dig people from the grave to promote these alternative hypotheses.


*****

now pay attention
Quote:



At SOME point, ya just gotta go with the evidence, no matter how much you hate it for ideological reasons.

That is a good idea. You should try that.
There is no scientific evidence to support your religion, only the requisite need for you to BELIEVE.
All available valid evidence disproves your religion, or cult.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 5:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


For those wondering how or why 1kiki is being deceptive:

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

You selecting only the portions of KP which support your predetermined conclusions
No, I selected the entire list from wiki, as a reference everyone with a computer can access. Don't believe me? Here's the link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch%27s_postulates

How about YOUR references? Got any? I suspect not.

BTW - SINCE YOU'RE BLATANTLY LYING - I didn't bother reading any further.

And, I'm going to have to see some OT up-to-date links before I bother reading anything else. Because frankly, your tripe is not worth the waste of time.

kiki claims to be faithfully repeating the content found in the link that I had specified to begin with, and which she includes.
Her quasi-faithful but selective claim of content can be found above in one of my posts quoting her.
For anybody who can read, fair plain American English, the linky contains the following criteria for Koch's Postulate #1:
The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.

She selected only half of the logically AND 2 parts. As logical ANDs, both portions are equally requisite. It could be equally stated that the microorganism must not be found in any healthy organism, but should be found in all organisms suffering from the disease.
She seems to believe that by outtaking only her selected portion of the whole Postulate, it will fully bolster her prophesizing for her religion or beliefs, although that part has also been proven untrue.
But the reason she is required to excise the other half of the Postulate which is unfriendly to her cult is because it is much more frequently disproven.

When healthy humans are not successfully killed off thtough the efforts of the prophets of the HIV/AIDS religion, these "survivors" are dismissively reclassified as having a "new strain" of this make believe illness. When the pretend illness does not respond in reality the way the True Believers insist that it really really must, the disclaimer seems to be their last resort for ignoring the facts in evidence.

So kiki is unable or unwilling to honestly address even one of the many points brought up, then claims that because the world and science do not agree with her cult or religion, she must stop considering the logic, reason, and sense of the heretics.

Regarding KP #2, it would be like detecting and proving blue light exists using only an infrared sensor. So use an invalid measurement standard, or evaluation standard like Koch's Postulates (the infrared sensor) to evaluate the validity of the Human Immunodeficiency VIRUS (the blue light) which the Postulate clearly states it cannot evaluate.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 7:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'm going to start with my conclusion first: YOU"RE LYING. AGAIN.

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
the content found in the link that I had specified to begin with

Really?

Where is the link, or specification?

Not here

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm a bit surprised somebody in CA woke up.
Do you even know what it means to expose somebody to HIV?

Or how to test for it?

Do you also support the ban on DHMO?

Perhaps you object to the rounding of the Earth as well.

or here

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
All of that angst and outrage was reserved for 1981-1992.
Remember how 1/3 of the world population was going to die before 1990 due to that mythical AIDS Religion?
And the "scientific" way to test for the hypothetical illness was to check that the Antibody was present, thus proving the Immune System was fully functional?
Some people claim that eventually they will prove that the proposed illness really does exist. It's only been about 34 years since the original hypothesis was disproven.

or here
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
That is a wacky
dodge you tried there. Not sure if your knee jerked, or if you need your meds refilled.
For shorthand, let's use a wiki reference for Koch's Postulates.
First, KP is not applicable to s virus, and according to your religion a virus is the causative agent.
Next, KP #1 has been disproven many times regarding the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim to self-support the myth says #1 does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #2 has never been proven with the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim is that #2 CANNOT be proven for a virus, which AIDS Cultists claim is the causative agent.
Next, KP #3 has been disproven every time scientific practices have been adhered to, starting with the original hypothesyser Dr Peter Duesberg disproving his theory in 8 months. But wait, the claim to self-support the predetermined conclusions says that #3 also does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #4 cannot and gas never been proven, because the first 3 cannot be, thus the totality of KP has no credibility.

So, all 4 of Koch's Postulates have been disproven regarding your religion, and also it is claimed that Koch's Postulates cannot be applied to HIV.

So, why do you make false claims by referencing an invalid standard?

That makes no sense.

Yes, people who consume the lethal drug cocktails for the mythical HIV illness will have shorter lives. That AZT one was a doozy. It was known to be 6,000 times more lethal than cancer, which it was designed and created for, but those gay activists gobbled it up, and guess what? They died. Shazam! Surprise, surprise.

or here

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You selecting only the portions of KP which support your predetermined conclusions, while disregarding and ignoring the portions which fail your argument, is not a bolster to your claim.
I fair clear specified that wiki was the handy common source that I was referring to. If you wish to correct wiki, lettuce know when you succeed.

And your attempts to indicate that HIV has been found in humans identified as HIV-positive by merely implying so is a lame dodge around the fact that it is untrue.

If you are interested in discussing without lies, then lay out your claims and beliefs, but leave the lies in other threads. I'm always interested in hearing new facts about this religion.

No need to deny:
HIV-positive humans don't get Immune Deficiency unless treated for HIV.
Not all deaths attributed, recorded, or reported as AIDS had either HIV or were HIV-positive (meaning the Immune System generated the HIV Antibody.)
HIV is not found in HIV-positive humans.
There is no cause and effect relationship between HIV and human Immune Deficiency death, except for HIV-negative humans.

or here


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes I was. I recall the hysteria well.

There were deaths, every single one from a previously known ailment, and from well documented causes.

Good to hear you have finally put aside your belief in Flat Earth, and now you can do the same with your HIV myth.
Did you also believe everything the "AIDS Czar" said, the clown who was repeatedly found to have perpetrated Scientific Fraud, BEFORE becoming "AIDS Czar"?

Did you have one specific ailment in mind, of the 56 known ailments which were conglomerated into the newly manufactured "AIDS" pretend illness?

Sorry to have woken you from your nap.

or here

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
kiki claims to be faithfully repeating the content found in the link that I had specified to begin with, and which she includes.
Her quasi-faithful but selective claim of content can be found above in one of my posts quoting her.
For anybody who can read, fair plain American English, the linky contains the following criteria for Koch's Postulate #1:
The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.

She selected only half of the logically AND 2 parts. As logical ANDs, both portions are equally requisite. It could be equally stated that the microorganism must not be found in any healthy organism, but should be found in all organisms suffering from the disease.
She seems to believe that by outtaking only her selected portion of the whole Postulate, it will fully bolster her prophesizing for her religion or beliefs, although that part has also been proven untrue.
But the reason she is required to excise the other half of the Postulate which is unfriendly to her cult is because it is much more frequently disproven.

When healthy humans are not successfully killed off thtough the efforts of the prophets of the HIV/AIDS religion, these "survivors" are dismissively reclassified as having a "new strain" of this make believe illness. When the pretend illness does not respond in reality the way the True Believers insist that it really really must, the disclaimer seems to be their last resort for ignoring the facts in evidence.

So kiki is unable or unwilling to honestly address even one of the many points brought up, then claims that because the world and science do not agree with her cult or religion, she must stop considering the logic, reason, and sense of the heretics.

Regarding KP #2, it would be like detecting and proving blue light exists using only an infrared sensor. So use an invalid measurement standard, or evaluation standard like Koch's Postulates (the infrared sensor) to evaluate the validity of the Human Immunodeficiency VIRUS (the blue light) which the Postulate clearly states it cannot evaluate.








Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'm going to start with my conclusion first: YOU"RE LYING. AGAIN.
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
the content found in the link that I had specified to begin with

Really?

Where is the link, or specification?

Not here
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm a bit surprised somebody in CA woke up....


correct
Quote:

or here
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
All of that angst and outrage was reserved for 1981-1992....


correct
Quote:

or here
oops!
Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
That is a wacky dodge you tried there. Not sure if your knee jerked, or if you need your meds refilled.


pay attention now
Quote:

Quote:

For shorthand, let's use a wiki reference for Koch's Postulates.

Well Shazaam! What could that have been? A suggestion of a ready, handy,commonly accessible reference for us to use? Well, puwty tat, it is - it is!
Quote:

Quote:

First, KP is not applicable to s virus, and according to your religion a virus is the causative agent.
Next, KP #1 has been disproven many times regarding the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim to self-support the myth says #1 does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #2 has never been proven with the AIDS Religion. But wait, the claim is that #2 CANNOT be proven for a virus, which AIDS Cultists claim is the causative agent.
Next, KP #3 has been disproven every time scientific practices have been adhered to, starting with the original hypothesyser Dr Peter Duesberg disproving his theory in 8 months. But wait, the claim to self-support the predetermined conclusions says that #3 also does not apply to HIV.
Next, KP #4 cannot and gas never been proven, because the first 3 cannot be, thus the totality of KP has no credibility.

So, all 4 of Koch's Postulates have been disproven regarding your religion, and also it is claimed that Koch's Postulates cannot be applied to HIV.

So, why do you make false claims by referencing an invalid standard?

That makes no sense.

Yes, people who consume the lethal drug cocktails for the mythical HIV illness will have shorter lives. That AZT one was a doozy. It was known to be 6,000 times more lethal than cancer, which it was designed and created for, but those gay activists gobbled it up, and guess what? They died. Shazam! Surprise, surprise.

or here

clearly, you already missed it.
Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You selecting...

or here
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes I was...

or here
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
kiki claims to be faithfully....


any questions?

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"For shorthand, let's use a wiki reference for Koch's Postulates."

And here's the link ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch%27s_postulates

And here they are, quoted in their entirety:

Koch's postulates are the following:

1 The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but should not be found in healthy organisms.
2 The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
3 The cultured microorganism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
4 The microorganism must be reisolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent.

Which I addressed in their entirety. I did not, as you claim select "only the portions of KP which support your predetermined conclusions, while disregarding and ignoring the portions which fail your argument, is not a bolster to your claim."

So YOU LIED. AGAIN.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 8:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts
-and-maps/kochs-postulates


Koch originally proposed the postulates in reference to bacterial diseases. However, with some qualifications, the postulates can be applied to diseases caused by viruses and other infectious agents as well.



The webpage then goes on to enumerate the many shortcomings of the original Koch's postulates, including the problem of viruses.

As an aside, in fact, the general problem of overlooking things that don't grow on an artificial medium has led to scientists overlooking at least 90% of all microbes in the soil, in water, and even in, and on, us.
https://www.usbr.gov/research/projects/download_product.cfm?id=1390




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Tuesday, October 10, 2017 9:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

JSF, were you around for the beginning of the AIDS epidemic? Because I was, and I clearly remember people getting sick and dying BEFORE ever being "treated" for AIDS.

Good lord, everything you posted about AIDS is bass akwards. I know that you don't like scientific orthodoxy, but there comes a point when you just have to recognize that the earth really is roundish. - SIGNY

Yes I was. I recall the hysteria well.
There were deaths, every single one from a previously known ailment, and from well documented causes.- JSF

Dood, do you know what happens when someone's immune system becomes defective? They get PREVIOUSLY KNOWN ailments. People with immune deficiency conditions don't get Martian fever or Venusian bumps. They get previously known illnesses. That's well-documented. And AIDS is like OTHER immune deficiency conditions.

Quote:

Did you also believe everything the "AIDS Czar" said, the clown who was repeatedly found to have perpetrated Scientific Fraud, BEFORE becoming "AIDS Czar"?-
Who? What did he say? What is the "fraud" that you allude to? Links?

Quote:

Did you have one specific ailment in mind, of the 56 known ailments which were conglomerated into the newly manufactured "AIDS" pretend illness?
I already addressed this. People with compromised immune systems ... and yes, it occurs outside of the context of HIV/AIDS ... don't die of "immune deficiency" or never-seen-before illnesses. They DO die of known diseases that their immune systems are incapable of fending off. Quite often, they're somewhat rare diseases that you don't see very often except in cases of immune deficiency, like Kaposi's sarcoma.

Quote:

Sorry to have woken you from your nap. - JSF


Of course, STILL no links, and nothing to back it up.

Quote:

I also remember the "alternate theories" of AIDS .... "gay lifestyle" ... bad nutrition ... exposure to multiple diseases ... amyl nitrate ... but the proof of the pudding is that NONE of these approaches was effective at treating the disease. Better nutrition and eliminating amyl nitrate didn't save a single person from death. That's how you figure our whether a hypothesis is good or not: you put it to the test.

When ANY treatments based on these alternate theories reliably treats people with HIV/ AIDS, come back and tell us about it. Better yet, let the survivors tell us themselves. But so far, you'll have to dig people from the grave to promote these alternative hypotheses.

At SOME point, ya just gotta go with the evidence, no matter how much you hate it for ideological reasons.- SIGNY

That is a good idea. You should try that.
There is no scientific evidence to support your religion, only the requisite need for you to BELIEVE.All available valid evidence disproves your religion, or cult.- JSF



YOU suffer from the same problem as those who believe that Trump colluded with "RUSSIA!";

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT EVIDENCE IS.

IF these "alternate theories" are correct, then people with AIDS should be able to be cured without addressing the virus. Aggressive treatment against those known diseases, proper nutrition, withdrawal from the "gay lifestyle", eliminating exposure to "poppers" .... whatever the proposed non-viral causative agent(s), treating for THAT should cure the disease, or at least dramatically prolong life, compared to people who didn't get the proposed treatment(s).

So, who came up with these "alternate theories"? How did they test their theories? Where are the results of those tests? Did they treat any patients? What was their success rate? (I'd be willing to bet "zero".) Where are papers reporting on these successful treatments/ studies?

Yanno, in the very beginning, before the notion that a retrovirus caused this illness, people were willing to try ANYthing so they wouldn't die of the shits, or whatever. They probably tried every single non-viral approach that you can think of, and quite a few that you didn't. Stress reduction. Tai chi. Herbal teas. Music. Religion. Salt baths. Sunshine. Dark. Lots and lots of alcohol. Aggressive mainstream medicine.

Unlike human-caused global climate shift, this is really something that can be experimented on. So why hasn't a horde (or at least a dozen!) of "cured" patients come forward, testifying to the success of their non-viral approaches? Where are those brave souls who could prove your point? (HINT: They're all in the grave.)

So far, you've brought NOTHING to support your (currently bogus) claims, so before you start insulting people about who is being factual who isn't, you might want to check your posts for facts, just to see if you have any.

Yanno JSF, I know it's all fashionable in certain circles to question every form of orthodoxy. GREAT IDEA! But you have to have some kind of process to winnow truth out of the welter of claims and counterclaims.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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