REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is this really "the lowest point in our nation’s history that they can remember"?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 07:45
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VIEWED: 1783
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Friday, November 10, 2017 11:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Six

Would you think it was OK for a male to have sex with a woman insensate from a diabetic coma? A concussion? End-stage cancer?

Then why is drinking any different?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Friday, November 10, 2017 11:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Signy - that's where I was going - about how badly we teach our children.

Those poor girls growing up today. They're in competition with the airbrushed-photoshopped-pornstar media queens for male attention. Because - what ARE you if you don't win the contests?
And those poor boys. Being taught to treat other humans like objects, the one prize they'll always have even if they lose out in the 'bigger dick' competition.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Friday, November 10, 2017 11:48 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I agree with you that women need to take responsibility for their actions, and yet the whole culture is going the wrong way. Also, if you expect women to take responsibility for not getting drunk, how about expecting men to not fuck girls who're just barely this side of conscious? Are you sure you aren't expecting a double standard?



I think the problem today is this preconceived notion that women are helpless and that men are predators. I honestly don't even understand it and why it is so pervasive since it seems not to fit in at all with the whole Girl Power thing.

I DO expect men not to fuck girls that are barely conscious. That's not what I'm talking about. That's not what we're talking about. Do you really believe that no less than 13.2% of men in college would, or would even want to fuck a girl who is near passed out? That's a scary thought. I don't believe that.

Quote:

I read parts of Hepola's Blackout: Remembering the Things I Drank to Forget and it describes a woman who was convinced that being sexually liberated meant engaging in endless hookups, and drinking was a way to numb herself to that paradigm.


That doesn't seem to be a male problem at all. That doesn't even seem to be a female problem, generally speaking. Any of the girls that I dated for any extended period of time were nothing like what she's describing.

Quote:

I heard an interview of Orenstein (Girls and Sex) about what's going on with girls today ... it's horrific, they think they need to be "hot" or to offer sex for conferred status. and drinking is definitely part of that too ... they drink to absolve themselves of responsibility.


To absolve themselves of responsibility. That's a problem.

As you know, I drank MUCH more than my share. I was never drinking to absolve myself of anything. I did a lot of damage to myself and negatively impacted others. I let my house start to fall into ruin. I didn't have the benefit of being a female and allow drinking to absolve myself of anything. When I finally sobered up I had a lot of repairs to make in all aspects of my life.

Drinking is not a get out of jail free card.

Quote:

As I walked past a group of boys at the pharmacy the other day, who couldn't have been more than 13 or 14, I overheard one tell another Well, at least I kept it in longer than YOU did and I couldn't help wondering how the girls became pieces of a game.


If that's all of the conversation you heard, I could think of a couple of other things that could have been pertaining to. What makes you think they were talking about sex?

Quote:

Women endlessly blaming someone else for their own victimization robs them of their power. But how to get women to stop victimizing themselves? Do they feel that they just don't know how to say "no"? Are they trying to live up to a media-hyped example? Online porn? Athletic-team entitlement?


I know plenty of women who DO know how to say NO.

I don't believe there is any sort of "epidemic" and it's irresponsible for the media to portray it as such.

Quote:

Which brings me to the role of the media on our collective shit-fitting, but I guess that's for later.



Yeah... it's getting late. I'm going to be gone for a few days. I couldn't even begin to get into that part of the conversation right now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 10, 2017 11:54 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Six

Would you think it was OK for a male to have sex with a woman insensate from a diabetic coma? A concussion? End-stage cancer?

Then why is drinking any different?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?


If you read my post to Sigs above, you'll see that I don't condone a man or woman having sex with somebody who is passed out or so far gone they can barely talk. So the answer to that question is no.

Not only is that wrong, but anybody who would do such a thing has mental problems. Why would anybody want to fuck a corpse? I can't even imagine why somebody would choose to do something like this when they've got two good hands and a plethora of sex toys they could buy online.



But... To answer part two of your question, because yes, that was two different questions.


Drinking is not a get out of jail free card. Drinking does not absolve anybody of responsibility, male or female.

Somebody in a diabetic coma or dying of cancer didn't willingly make the choice to put themselves in an altered state of consciousness just hours before.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 2:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Somebody in a diabetic coma or dying of cancer didn't willingly make the choice to put themselves in an altered state of consciousness just hours before.
What does that have to do with the question?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 4:13 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Quote:

Somebody in a diabetic coma or dying of cancer didn't willingly make the choice to put themselves in an altered state of consciousness just hours before.
What does that have to do with the question?

You seem to be intentionally ignoring, or perhaps just ignorant of some facts of human Practices.

Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid. By somebody. Somebody they have not pre-selected. Not all women. Not every time they drink.
But if you are in denial that this is a fact of human interaction, then you need to inform us that this critical denial of reality is part of your argument in the discussion.

Other tricks women do to get laid? They get out their best "boob shirts" and then whine that males are looking at their cleavage - possibly meaning that they are not drunk enough. Or they smuggle peanuts and then bitch that guys are hitting on them.

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 5:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


FYI SIX, in response to your comment
Quote:

You are a part of the most privileged women that the history of the planet has ever seen, and you constantly whine and bitch about this every single day.
This just happened to pop up on ZH:

Quote:

America Is The 22nd 'Best' Country In The World For Women

Saudi Arabia isn't alone in how it treats women and a new index has gauged the status of women in different countries.

Infographic: The Best And Worst Countries For Women Worldwide | Statista

You will find more statistics at Statista

The global Women, Peace and Security Index was launched by The Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace and Security and the Peace Research Institute of Oslo.

It measures women's well-being by assessing various factors such as inclusion, justice and security in 153 countries.

Iceland comes first, followed by Norway and Switzerland.



The U.S. is in 22nd position and its lack of paid-maternity leave is one possible reason it trails other developed countries. Along with Papua New Guinea, the U.S. is the only country worldwide that doesn't offer new mothers paid maternity leave.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-10/america-22nd-best-country-wor
ld-women


But, for THUGR, the original article can be found here, via the ZH link https://www.statista.com/chart/11754/the-best-and-worst-countries-for-
women-worldwide
/


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 9:04 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


To Sigs: That was just a further statement based off the one I had made earlier saying that women of the "Western World" have more privileged than any women who have ever lived, and wasn't necessarily a statement about just the US.

You know I don't believe in stats, about anything, because they are so easily skewed by whoever is presenting them for their own reasons. Although I have an extremely hard time believing we come in at number 22, I have not ever been outside of America, let alone lived anywhere else for an extended period of time. If that is the truth, at least by the graph you showed, that doesn't at all contradict my statement. In fact, if it is actually better in 21 other Western World countries than it is here then it only makes the statement even more true.

To Kiki: Read it again and figure it out. I posted in English. I know you know how to read.


To JSF: Yup.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 8:52 PM

OONJERAH


OK. So this thread turned into "Sex or Not in the Shallowest Situations."
I won't say I don't understand at all: We had drunken parties at college
when I was young, too.
But those hook-ups were seriously less appealing to women since most
of us were more interested in a relationship than a one-night-stand.
So whatever happened to meeting, talking, dating, getting to know one
another? If that's out the window, society is doomed.

Relationships Are More Important than Lust.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 11:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid.".

That's just plain stupid. Women should be getting MEN drunk to get laid, not themselves.

Has it never occurred to you that women get drunk for the same reasons men get drunk. Because they're anxious, or tired, or depressed, or at the end of their rope, and they want to feel something different from what they usually feel? Do you look at a drunk woman and assume she wants to get laid? do you look at a drunk man and assume he wants to get laid?

JSF, you are part of the problem.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Saturday, November 11, 2017 11:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"To JSF: Yup."

And you are too, Jack.

And btw troll, "Somebody in a diabetic coma or dying of cancer didn't willingly make the choice to put themselves in an altered state of consciousness just hours before" is a completely gratuitous attempt to SEE WOMEN PUNISHED for the horrible crime of getting drunk. As if rape was some kind of just punishment for that crime.

Seriously, Jack, I wish you'd been raped by a man every time you got drunk with men around. Because, you know how men are, and OBVIOUSLY you were asking for it.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:31 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
OK. So this thread turned into "Sex or Not in the Shallowest Situations."
I won't say I don't understand at all: We had drunken parties at college
when I was young, too.
But those hook-ups were seriously less appealing to women since most
of us were more interested in a relationship than a one-night-stand.
So whatever happened to meeting, talking, dating, getting to know one
another? If that's out the window, society is doomed.

Relationships Are More Important than Lust.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

People live too long now. Few want or expect to stay Til Death Do Us Part. Most expect if married, then more than one trip down the aisle. Women cannot commit to a man, they only want that first ring, so they are set for life with alimony, from one or another. Men have long wanted a lifelong commitment, to grow old together - but women only want half of the guy's earnings.
Many young adults don't even think about or mention marriage, just how many kids they have and all the different daddies.

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 2:44 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid.".

That's just plain stupid. Women should be getting MEN drunk to get laid, not themselves.

the physiology of male and female gender anatomy works in opposite ways with alcohol. Not saying this is the smartest thing to do, just saying it is what they do. So now we all know and understand you are in denial.
Quote:

Has it never occurred to you that women get drunk for the same reasons men get drunk. Because they're anxious, or tired, or depressed, or at the end of their rope, and they want to feel something different from what they usually feel? Do you look at a drunk woman and assume she wants to get laid?
try reading my post. Not every woman. Not every time.
Quote:

do you look at a drunk man and assume he wants to get laid?

According tovFeminists, men think about getting laid every 11 seconds of his life. So I would logically assume every man wants to get laid. Drunk, sober, asleep. If you randomly asked 10 men if they want to get laid, how many dovyou think would say no?

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 4:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
OK. So this thread turned into "Sex or Not in the Shallowest Situations."
I won't say I don't understand at all: We had drunken parties at college when I was young, too. But those hook-ups were seriously less appealing to women since most
of us were more interested in a relationship than a one-night-stand. So whatever happened to meeting, talking, dating, getting to know one another? If that's out the window, society is doomed. Relationships Are More Important than Lust.

Yep, apparently the whole crux of this lowest point in society rests on women getting drunk to get laid.

Quote:

"Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid.".- SIX
JACK, sweetie .... Don't you realize what you just said? If women REALLY WANTED to get laid, they wouldn't HAVE to get drunk in order to get what they wanted. They would hop willingly, happily, and sober, into bed with any and every man who meets their fancy.

IF what you're saying is true, then women are sleeping with men under duress, or with disgust, or under some pressure other than their own biological urges. IF what you're saying is true, then women are responding to some sort of pressure ASIDE FROM THEIR FREE AND WILLING DESIRES. A difference in sexual appetites combined with a disparity in power, perhaps?

It seems to me that you just made the case that there is still coercion involved with sex, if not "all" of the time then a fair bit of the time.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 4:38 AM

OONJERAH


Jack's going to write book about the Psychology of American Women,
& how Men can get along with them.

It will be a best seller, 'cause folks will think it's a joke book.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SIX, let me pose another situation to you: Frat boys get THEMSELVES all liquored up, to do the things that frat boys do. Of course, as you so kindly mentioned, males can't get TOO drunk, or they can't complete the sex act. But they get drunk for sex, they get drunk for initiations, they get drunk for football, they get drunk for a lot of things.

IF these things were inherently pleasurable, why do they have to get drunk to do them? Maybe they would rather be doing something other than brushing their teeth with a toilet bowl brush or being paddled by the entire fraternity? So is it because they're fulfilling somebody else's vision of "having a good time"?

*****

There is a strange kind of dynamic going on. You seem intent on denying that women are subject to harassment or exclusion. It's as if acknowledging women's prejudicial treatment somehow negates your own.

WISHY reacts the same way. Somehow, she seems to think that acknowledging that many men suffer under the current system denies that women ALSO suffer.

It's like you've whipped your collective dicks on the table ... or in this case, the list of grievances ... to see whose is bigger so that you can "win" in the victim game, so that YOU can get "equality" and deny the "other side". In reality, it's possible that you are BOTH victims. Maybe not always to an equal extent in all dimensions, but what's the point of trying to decide whose victimhood is bigger? That has got to be the most braindead approach to equality: resentment. We should be acknowledging each others victimhood and not be so tribal in our thinking.

****

I've been listening to BBC (via NPR) about the tribal disputes in Kenya, the Kikuyu versus the Othaya, Luos and others. When we hear about the Tutsis and the Hutus, or the Kikuyu and the Othaya, or other tribal conflicts, it probably seems pretty pointless and self-destructive and yet, we engage in the same kind of tribalism, only WE call it "identity politics".



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 4:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
OK. So this thread turned into "Sex or Not in the Shallowest Situations."
I won't say I don't understand at all: We had drunken parties at college when I was young, too. But those hook-ups were seriously less appealing to women since most
of us were more interested in a relationship than a one-night-stand. So whatever happened to meeting, talking, dating, getting to know one another? If that's out the window, society is doomed. Relationships Are More Important than Lust.

Yep, apparently the whole crux of this lowest point in society rests on women getting drunk to get laid.

Quote:

"Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid.".- SIX
JACK, sweetie .... Don't you realize what you just said? If women REALLY WANTED to get laid, they wouldn't HAVE to get drunk in order to get what they wanted. They would hop willingly, happily, and sober, into bed with any and every man who meets their fancy.

IF what you're saying is true, then women are sleeping with men under duress, or with disgust, or under some pressure other than their own biological urges. IF what you're saying is true, then women are responding to some sort of pressure ASIDE FROM THEIR FREE AND WILLING DESIRES. A difference in sexual appetites combined with a disparity in power, perhaps?

It seems to me that you just made the case that there is still coercion involved with sex, if not "all" of the time then a fair bit of the time.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

yet again, even more Fake Quotes from Sig.

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 4:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

yet again, even more Fake Quotes from Sig.- JSF
Direct word-for-word quotes. So WTF???



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Quote:

yet again, even more Fake Quotes from Sig.- SixString
Direct word-for-word quotes. So WTF???

Yes, kiki. More of your Fake Quotes.

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 7:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

yet again, even more Fake Quotes from Sig.- SixString

Direct word-for-word quotes. So WTF???- SIGNY

Yes, kiki. More of your Fake Quotes.



Speaking of "fake quotes" - why don't you let SIX speak for himself, and KIKI speak for herself, you can speak for yourself and I'll speak for myself?

My point to SIX wasn't that "men" coerce "women" into sex (altho that happens) but "culture" and "the media" coerces people into doing things they don't necessarily want to do. And booze helps numb people to that pain.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 8:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

yet again, even more Fake Quotes from Sig.- SixString

Direct word-for-word quotes. So WTF???- SIGNY

Yes, kiki. More of your Fake Quotes.

Speaking of "fake quotes" - why don't you let SIX speak for himself, and KIKI speak for herself, you can speak for yourself and I'll speak for myself?

Nice concept which you should try out. But your constant supply of Fake Quotes impedes such progress.
Quote:


My point to SIX

Why Six?

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

"Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid.".- SIX
JACK, sweetie .... Don't you realize what you just said? If women REALLY WANTED to get laid, they wouldn't HAVE to get drunk in order to get what they wanted. They would hop willingly, happily, and sober, into bed with any and every man who meets their fancy.



Nope. Not my quote.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

"Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid.".- SIX
JACK, sweetie .... Don't you realize what you just said?

Nope. Not my quote.

Those words do not even appear anywhere in any post you have made, even as a quote. Only transplanting during fabrication of a Fake Quote can create this false attribution.

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 10:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oops, my bad! Sorry! That was a case of mis-attribution.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I just reject polls which state that 1 in every 5 women on college campuses will be raped and that 13.2% of men on campus say that they would rape. (I a ABSOLUTELY SURE that not a single man in that survey said they would rape. They were just classified as potential rapists because of how they answered questions on the test.)

Define rape.

If everybody is drinking and sex happens, that's not rape. Don't drink so much you don't like the decision you made the night before. Period.

If we're all equal, and we're talking about strong and independent women here, take some fucking responsibility for your own actions and choices.

When you call everything rape, then nothing is rape.

Another comprehensive piece of the discussion.

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Monday, November 13, 2017 12:17 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.bustle.com/articles/118139-4-statistics-that-prove-we-need
-to-teach-people-about-consent


1. Men Are More Likely To Say They'll Rape If They Don't Consider It Rape
In the previously-referenced survey published in Violence and Gender, 32 percent of college men said they would have “intentions to force a woman to sexual intercourse” if ‘‘nobody would ever know and there wouldn’t be any consequences." Only 13.6 percent of these men said they would have “any intentions to rape a woman” in the same situation. This suggests that when we teach people to recognize rape as rape, they're less likely to do it.

2. 33.1 Percent Of Women, 39.1 Percent of TGQN People, And 8.6 Percent Of Men Experience Nonconsensual Sexual Contact During College
... more recent research published in JAMA Pediatrics in 2015 found that 10.8 percent of college men had committed rape in either high school or college. That's a significant proportion — too large to just be considered a fringe population ...

3. 18 Percent Of College Students Think Someone Has Consented As Long As They Don't Say "No"
This statistic comes from a poll conducted by The Washington Post between January and March of 2015.

4. Victims Say They Didn't Report Their Sexual Assaults Because They Didn't Know They Were Assaulted
These victims did not understand that it is always a crime to engage in sexual contact with someone without having given their consent.

"College men"
So you are surprised that affirmative action students, Arab visiting students, Muslim students filling college rolls have brought along their teachings and practices with them? Were they also asked if they would have sex with a camel? Why would sex with other property be any different, just because that property is a woman?

An Ivy League school recently celebrated achieving more than 50% student enrollment of non-whites. So why is the figure in this poll not greatly higher than 14%?

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Monday, November 13, 2017 12:19 AM

OONJERAH


Games People Play, 1964, Eric Berne,
It was a best seller the year it came out. Provides a simple way
to pull my own covers. I didn't like my destructive habits, but got
some changes from this.

What Do You Say After You Say Hello? 1973, also by Eric Berne
Transactional analysis, you've heard of it?
This one is about how to relate to others.

The Master Game, 1968, Robert de Ropp
Not S&M. This is about Self-mastery.

I see the source of my problems when I look in the mirror.
Knowing how & what to change in me was a big help.

I dunno if self-help books are even half as popular as they
were in the 60s-70s. But this is basic, simple stuff that
still works.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, November 13, 2017 2:54 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6-string:
Somebody in a diabetic coma or dying of cancer didn't willingly make the choice to put themselves in an altered state of consciousness just hours before.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What does that have to do with the question?

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You seem to be intentionally ignoring, or perhaps just ignorant of some facts of human Practices.
Women drink to get laid. Get drunk to get laid. Get drunk in huge meatmarkets to get laid. By somebody.

Hey there !
We were talking about comas. Yanno, people passed out. Do you not know what a coma is?
But even more than that - having sex with people too drunk, or drugged, or otherwise too mentally incapacitated to understand and consent, is also rape. Do you understand that?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, November 13, 2017 3:02 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I just reject polls which state that 1 in every 5 women on college campuses will be raped ...

Then you need to re-read the quote . It's that 1 in 5 HAS BEEN sexually assaulted, by legal definition.
Quote:

1 in 5 female college students is sexually assaulted
And then, there's JSF, chiming in and agreeing with stupidity ...
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Another comprehensive piece of the discussion.

... because, well - why DID you agree with something that's not true, JSF?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, November 13, 2017 8:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oops, my bad! Sorry! That was a case of mis-attribution.



No problem. I knew you didn't do that on purpose. ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 8:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I just reject polls which state that 1 in every 5 women on college campuses will be raped ...



Then you need to re-read the quote . It's that 1 in 5 HAS BEEN sexually assaulted, by legal definition. -Kiki



THEY HAVE?

In 2015, 20.4 Million students in America went to college.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372

Quote:

The male-female ratio in higher education has been steadily moved in favor of the females ever since the 1970s. Total enrollment figures show that females outnumbered their male counterparts for the first time in the late 1970s, and they have steadily increased their numerical advantage ever since. The superiority first came in public universities, but soon private universities saw female enrollment surpass male enrollment.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-
college
/

So, more than half of them are women, ever since the 70's. Which, incidentally, also means that for my ENTIRE LIFE, more women then men have gone to college.

For the sake of this argument and easy math, let's just call it a 50/50 split.

That means that In 2014, 2.1 MILLION women were sexually assaulted on campus.


First of all, the word "allegedly" is missing from that "fact". Second of all, the big missing piece of data that is needed to support that wild claim is the statistics that show that 2.1 Million men in 2014 were tried in a court of law and found to have been guilty of sexual assault.




Quote:

1 in 5 female college students is sexually assaulted


Quote:

And then, there's JSF, chiming in and agreeing with stupidity ...

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Another comprehensive piece of the discussion.



Quote:

... because, well - why DID you agree with something that's not true, JSF? -Kiki


Either you're confused, or your saying things in a very confusing way. You'll need to re-organize and re-propose whatever point you're trying to make here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 9:33 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


SEXUAL HARASSERS COMPLAIN BITTERLY ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN RUINING THEIR GAME
www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2017/11/sexual-harassers-complain-bi
tterly-about-harvey-weinstein-ruining-their-game-.html


1. Actor Kevin Spacey: "All my life I've gone around groping other men, or falling on them bodily when I was drunk. And I never got into trouble about it until Harvey Weinstein blew it all up for us sex harassers. Now they've gone and canceled my series House of Cards that everyone loved. Is this fair to the audience who was waiting breathlessly for the next season? And is this right for me as an actor? Heck, my reputation as a sex harasser could've added depth to my immoral character in the series. They could've written a few sexual gropings for my character in the next season, which would've made it very topical. I could've done a great acting job because it would've been based on my own experience. Now all this great acting opportunity is buggered because of Harvey Weinstein. Harvey Weinstein, you effing douchebag! You've messed things up for me. I hope you get arrested and go to jail for how you've ruined my life."

2. Director James Toback: "Until that moron Harvey Weinstein screwed things up for us sex harassers, I had a great time sexually harassing my way among all the juicy actresses in Hollywood until 310 women complained. 310 actresses! Imagine that! Bill O'Reilly and Cosby, I bet you guys never came close to my record. I'm the king of sex harassers. Then Harvey came along and ruined everything for us powerful men who got off on thrusting our pelvises at women who wanted it anyway. Harvey, you utter asshole! You've screwed things up for me forever. I might never get consensual sex with any respectable woman ever again. Am I reduced to finding five-dollar hookers to suck me off on Hollywood Boulevard? I never thought my life would turn out to be as hard as my dick until Harvey screwed things up for me."

There are 16 famous sexual harassers at www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2017/11/sexual-harassers-complain-bi
tterly-about-harvey-weinstein-ruining-their-game-.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 13, 2017 10:47 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I just reject polls which state that 1 in every 5 women on college campuses will be raped ...

Then you need to re-read the quote . It's that 1 in 5 HAS BEEN sexually assaulted, by legal definition. -Kiki

THEY HAVE?

remember the legal definition of Sexual Assault includes touching, kissing, dancing, hugging - all fully clothed.
A wise man recently pointed out that when everything is rape, nothing is rape.
Quote:

In 2015, 20.4 Million students in America went to college.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372
Quote:

The male-female ratio in higher education has been steadily moved in favor of the females ever since the 1970s. Total enrollment figures show that females outnumbered their male counterparts for the first time in the late 1970s, and they have steadily increased their numerical advantage ever since. The superiority first came in public universities, but soon private universities saw female enrollment surpass male enrollment.
So, more than half of them are women, ever since the 70's. Which, incidentally, also means that for my ENTIRE LIFE, more women then men have gone to college.

For the sake of this argument and easy math, let's just call it a 50/50 split.

That means that In 2014, 2.1 MILLION women were sexually assaulted on campus.

First of all, the word "allegedly" is missing from that "fact". Second of all, the big missing piece of data that is needed to support that wild claim is the statistics that show that 2.1 Million men in 2014 were tried in a court of law and found to have been guilty of sexual assault.
Quote:

1 in 5 female college students is sexually assaulted
Quote:

And then, there's JSF, chiming in and agreeing with stupidity ...
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Another comprehensive piece of the discussion.

Quote:

... because, well - why DID you agree with something that's not true, JSF? -Kiki
Either you're confused, or your saying things in a very confusing way. You'll need to re-organize and re-propose whatever point you're trying to make here.

agreed.

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Monday, November 13, 2017 2:02 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
remember the legal definition of Sexual Assault includes touching, kissing, dancing, hugging - all fully clothed.
A wise man recently pointed out that when everything is rape, nothing is rape.

Magazine Editor Leon Wieseltier completely agrees with you and your wiseman. Furthermore, he complains bitterly about Harvey Weinstein ruining his life:

"My life is over, and I'm still only in my sixties. I've been fired from every position — my Brookings Institution stripped me of my fellowship, the Atlantic doesn't want my contributions anymore, this wealthy widow who was going to finance a new magazine for me, went AWOL on me. All just because when I ran The New Republic, my widely admired magazine, I kissed a whole bunch of young women full on the mouth against their wishes; I described their bodies to them, really a rather complimentary act at the time, I thought; I recounted my own sexual exploits in detail to them, which I was only doing just in case they wanted to add to these exploits; I sputtered obscenities at them, and apparently this brought tears and shame to females under my power. Everyone on the New Republic knew about this, but no one on the staff, man or woman, had the courage to call me out then, so why are they doing it now? Most unfair. All because of you, Weinstein — didn't you know the risk you were taking, the risk that you'd be ruining the careers of other sex assaulters besides yourself? You really let the team down when you couldn't keep your shenanigans out of the newspaper anymore. I know you tried to shut down that New York Times article and Rose McGowan by hiring Mossad agents and star lawyer David Boies, whom I commend for trying to protect you, but you should've tried harder."

www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2017/11/sexual-harassers-complain-bi
tterly-about-harvey-weinstein-ruining-their-game-.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, November 13, 2017 2:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Are you done trolling Second? The adults are trying to have a conversation here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 2:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"First of all, the word "allegedly" is missing from that "fact". Second of all, the big missing piece of data that is needed to support that wild claim is the statistics that show that 2.1 Million men in 2014 were tried in a court of law and found to have been guilty of sexual assault."

Your math skills are deficient jack. It's not true that 1 unique victim = 1 unique perpetrator. Each perpetrator can have more than 1 victim.


Here are the official stats from the USDoJ:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf.
NIJ is the research, development and evaluation agency of the U.S. Department of Justice.
A 2007 survey by the National Institute of Justice found that 19.0% of college women and 6.1% of college men experienced either sexual assault or attempted sexual assault since entering college.

BTW - here's the definition of rape (no force required): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States Rape in the United States is defined by the Department of Justice as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

And here's the definition of sexual assault: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault Sexual assault is a sexual act in which a person is coerced or physically forced to engage against their will, or non-consensual sexual touching of a person.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, November 13, 2017 2:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Show me any statistic anywhere that says even 1/10th of the allegations led to convictions. Show me any statistic that shows me that even 1/10th of the allegations were ever even brought before a court.

Don't try pulling that shit.

Sure, it could be assumed that one guy who did this has done this to 10 or 100 or even more girls.

You know what I was getting at, and you're dodging it.



You're showing made up numbers about supposed allegations. I'm asking for real numbers of actual cases that were proven to be true.

Take you're time. I'll be here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 2:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Convicted? No. Admitted? Yes.

Nobody just accused these men and got believe and counted. These men ADMITTED what they'd done. And if they had admitted this in the presence of the police instead of researchers, they would have been found guilty.

Now, since these men ADMITTED what they'd done, and I suspect men would be less likely to admit to it than not, the numbers are probably higher.

You're the one who's dodging, jack. These men ADMITTED what they'd done. That's what got them counted.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, November 13, 2017 4:34 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just a final comment, jsf and jack.

You've been crying the whole time about women who get drunk and then cry rape.

I have a solution for you. If you're not acting honorably in a relationship with a woman you know well enough to trust, how about keeping your pants zipped up? In other words, how about treating sex like the consequential act it is, instead of like your personal entitlement? Then you'll have nothing to worry about!

What a concept!




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Monday, November 13, 2017 6:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Just a final comment, jsf and jack.

You've been crying the whole time about women who get drunk and then cry rape.

I have a solution for you. If you're not acting honorably in a relationship with a woman you know well enough to trust, how about keeping your pants zipped up? In other words, how about treating sex like the consequential act it is, instead of like your personal entitlement? Then you'll have nothing to worry about!

What a concept!



I reject that.

If women are strong and independent and equal, and they are not acting honorably in a relationship with a man they know well enough to trust, how about keeping your pants zipped up? In other words, how about treating sex like the consequential act that it is, instead of like your personal entitlement?

What a concept!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 6:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Convicted? No. Admitted? Yes.

Nobody just accused these men and got believe and counted. These men ADMITTED what they'd done. And if they had admitted this in the presence of the police instead of researchers, they would have been found guilty.



No. Nobody asked 20.4 million men and had 2.1 million men admit to researchers that they were guilty of sexual assault.

Quote:

Now, since these men ADMITTED what they'd done, and I suspect men would be less likely to admit to it than not, the numbers are probably higher.


If anybody quizzed 20.4 million men on the subject and 2.1 million of them had been stupid enough to admit that they had committed sexual assault, I would have to agree with you. But because that's not the case here at all..... nope.

Quote:

You're the one who's dodging, jack. These men ADMITTED what they'd done. That's what got them counted.



These 2.1 million men?

Quote:

3.1.1 Sampling
We created four sampling subframes, with ca
ses randomly ordered within each subframe:
University 1 women, University 1 men, Universi
ty 2 women, and University 2 men. We then
slightly reduced the size of the subframes (u
sing random sampling procedures) to obtain
equal numbers of freshmen, sophomores, j
uniors, and seniors. The reduced sampling
subframes at University 1 and University
2 contained 14,804 students (8,912 women and
5,892 men) and 11,960 students (6,324 women
and 5,636 men), respectively—a total of
26,764 students across the four subf
rames at the two universities.
Samples were then drawn randomly from each
of the four subframes. The sizes of these
samples were dictated by response rate pro
jections and sample size targets (4,000 women
and 1,000 men, evenly distributed across th
e universities and years of study). For the
female subsamples, 7,200 wome
n were ultimately sampled
from University 1 and 5,636
women were ultimately sampled from
University 2 (see Exhibit 3-1).



Oh... wait.

No. Only 4,040 men.... at only 2 universities. It should also be noted that for some needlessly convoluted reason the researchers decided to "randomly" choose only a smaller number of the samples they had collected. (I say needlessly convoluted sarcastically because I can think of more than a few reasons why they would do this).

Originally, there were 14,374 men sampled in the study. Only 4,040 men made the final cut.


So, a percentage of 4,040 men out of 2.1 million men "admitted" to certain things that these researchers deemed sexual assault. I'm not going to read 111 pages of B.S., so you can pull out exactly what they copped to.

I'm not sure if this is the study that you got the 13.2% figure from, but if it is, that means that 534 men out of 2.1 million men "admitted" to it. With no word at all on the other 10,000+ men who didn't make the final cut of the study. (One can only assume they were cut because they weren't "rapey" enough for the desired results of the study)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 8:18 PM

OONJERAH



The title of this thread is "Is this really the lowest
point in our nation’s history that they can remember"?

Should the forum have a thread about "How Men &
Women can Communicate Honestly about Sex" ?

I suspect that objectivity on the topic may be difficult
for those who want more sex than they get and also for
those who are in a long-term, couple relationship that
isn't working so well anymore.

I'll be 75 this week. Still I am often confused by the
signals I get from men.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, November 13, 2017 8:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I don't know of it's signals, so much as men don't know how to interact with women they aren't already close to anymore.

There is a fear. They don't want to be looked at a certain way or treated a certain way or accused of anything. Any of their actions at any time could be misconstrued and turned into something that was never intended.

I happen to be quite stand-offish to everyone at first, male and female, and I always have. I rarely ever initiated a relationship in my life. I'm sure I dated less than I could have because of this, but the last thing anybody could accuse me of is initiating anything that wasn't going to be appreciated. I've always been a pretty good looking guy though, and with the exception of a few bad years here and there I had my shit together pretty good. I'm also pretty approachable in most circumstances. I was lucky. I feel for the men in this world who are decent guys but aren't really attractive and are a bit more socially awkward that are terrified of speaking to the opposite sex today.

At my age and position right now, I just don't feel that any of it is worth it anymore. There's more than enough entertainment out there that's cheap and can keep you occupied and fulfilled enough. I'm not speaking for everyone, obviously, but I just don't see the draw. I have no desire to share my house with anyone.

I don't subscribe to movements, but I do understand where the MGTOW guys are coming from. Not the ones that hate females, which I'm sure a lot of them are, but the ones of the mind that relationships with the opposite sex have no net positive result to bring to the table in 2017. Or to put it another way, they aren't worth the effort.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 13, 2017 9:01 PM

OONJERAH


MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way ... :)

Ok. Never heard of that before.
Makes sense, tho. From Society's POV, there's plenty of people
on the planet; no need to get married & make more.

When I was a kid in the 40's-50's, it was taken for granted that
most of us wanted to get married & have children. ... But it was
a wrong assumption even back then.

I admire individuality & emotional independence.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, November 13, 2017 9:11 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

I'll be 75 this week.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Happy Birthday Oonjerah!

http://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/finding-bigfoot/lists/10-bigfoot-
sightings-last-5-years
/

G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.

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Monday, November 13, 2017 9:40 PM

OONJERAH


Thank you, G.

Speaking of Bigfoot, I visited Bigfoot Forums last night.
I rarely go there anymore.
To me, Bigfoot is real, & not much to say about that anymore.

But how is it that we know they exist ... & the gubmint still won't
admit it. Up to about 1975, they did admit it. Sorta.

As for my birthday ... I should treat myself to a movie.
Is the new Thor movie any good?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, November 13, 2017 10:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way ... :)

Ok. Never heard of that before.
Makes sense, tho. From Society's POV, there's plenty of people
on the planet; no need to get married & make more.

When I was a kid in the 40's-50's, it was taken for granted that
most of us wanted to get married & have children. ... But it was
a wrong assumption even back then.

I admire individuality & emotional independence.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Well I do think that this recent "battle of the sexes" mentality that is prevalent in the MSM and the government taking such an obtrusive role in every aspect of a relationship is a "big-picture" means of population control. I've said in other threads that overpopulation is one of, if not the largest problem that humanity faces currently.

Although on an individual level this could and does lead to a lot of misery in the lives of many people, it is a lot more humane of a solution than genocide, and likely a lot smarter way to go about it than any sort of genetic and/or bio-genetic solutions.

"Let's just make the idea of relations with the opposite sex so unappealing that they think the idea to stay single and celibate was their own".

I dunno.

I can't really say what my opinion of this is. It's good. It's bad. It is what it is. Something had to be done.



Happy B-Day, OONJ. Hope your 70's have been treating you well. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:28 AM

OONJERAH


6IXSTRINGJACK, "Happy B-Day, OONJ. Hope your 70's have been treating you well. :)"

Thanks, Jack.

Well, I'm more tired & unwilling now; but was pretty lazy even before.
Memory was always spotty. But mostly, my moods are better.

Marriage ... no, I was never married. But most of my life, I hoped to
fall in love and live with a mate. Men are good for a lot of things, &
today, I had to ask a neighbor to help me with the plumbing. I've known
a few married couples who chose not to have kids; you can do that, you
know.

What I have noticed the last couple of years is my self-acceptance finally
kicked in & I feel better emotionally than ever before.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:31 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

The title of this thread is "Is this really the lowest
point in our nation’s history that they can remember"?

Should the forum have a thread about "How Men &
Women can Communicate Honestly about Sex" ?

I suspect that objectivity on the topic may be difficult
for those who want more sex than they get and also for
those who are in a long-term, couple relationship that
isn't working so well anymore.

I'll be 75 this week. Still I am often confused by the
signals I get from men.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Happy Birthday!
I am curious - have you read, or are familiar with Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus?

I'm not sure I'd agree that men send signals, but Women seem to assume they do. Hollywood seems to call this difference SitCom or RomCom.

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:33 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Double post.

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YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE
JEWELSTAITEFAN 11.22 02:55
Oonjerah 11.22 04:40
JEWELSTAITEFAN 11.22 06:46
6ixStringJack 11.22 07:45

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More lies :)
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Democrats eyeing 2018 say it's time to start talking Russia
Tue, November 21, 2017 10:53 - 60 posts
The Scumbag from Alabama - 5th Accusser Surfaces
Tue, November 21, 2017 10:46 - 26 posts

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