REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is this really "the lowest point in our nation’s history that they can remember"?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, March 7, 2024 07:37
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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

The title of this thread is "Is this really the lowest
point in our nation’s history that they can remember"?

Should the forum have a thread about "How Men &
Women can Communicate Honestly about Sex" ?

I suspect that objectivity on the topic may be difficult
for those who want more sex than they get and also for
those who are in a long-term, couple relationship that
isn't working so well anymore.

I'll be 75 this week. Still I am often confused by the
signals I get from men.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Just checking something here....

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:24 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sweet. Thank you OONJ for having the courtesy to put the closed bracket on the font color. It's actually even easier than I thought it was to do it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
6IXSTRINGJACK, "Happy B-Day, OONJ. Hope your 70's have been treating you well. :)"

Thanks, Jack.

Well, I'm more tired & unwilling now; but was pretty lazy even before.
Memory was always spotty. But mostly, my moods are better.

Marriage ... no, I was never married. But most of my life, I hoped to
fall in love and live with a mate. Men are good for a lot of things, &
today, I had to ask a neighbor to help me with the plumbing. I've known
a few married couples who chose not to have kids; you can do that, you
know.

What I have noticed the last couple of years is my self-acceptance finally
kicked in & I feel better emotionally than ever before.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



I'm not completely cynical. Though part of me thinks that love and romance is just a bunch of BS to sell tickets to RomComs and greeting cards, I see the way my parents are with their 2nd marriages and decades later they do really seem to love each other.

I admit that as I get older there are times that it is lonely without a mate, but I'm not a "grass is greener" type of person. I'm far too pragmatic for that. Whenever I get in a lonely mood or think about anything along those lines, I remind myself how little patience I have and how even spending more than a few days time with people I actually really care about starts to drive me nuts I remember that a long term relationship where I lived with somebody just isn't in the cards for me.

Marriage for me might work if I was a long haul trucker or something where I was away from home most of the time, but I hate driving and sitting on my ass for any extended period of time too, so that wouldn't work.


You mentioned about the plumbing, and that's kind of one of my points. I'm almost completely self sufficient. There is very little that I couldn't do on my own if I needed to. The things I've never done before are just a YouTube video away. I can't honestly think of a single thing that I'd ever "need" a woman for. At least, nothing that I would give up my individuality and freedom long term for. Maybe it would be different if I had a kid or two I was raising and was doing it for them, but not for myself.



Congrats on the self-acceptance thing. Sorry it took so long for you to get there. I'm finally doing that myself and it's liberating knowing what you are and are not capable of and what you do and don't want out of life. I'm done trying to be what anybody else wants me to be.

It actually works out pretty nicely for me since I enjoy my solitude so much.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:13 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Thank you, G.

Speaking of Bigfoot, I visited Bigfoot Forums last night.
I rarely go there anymore.
To me, Bigfoot is real, & not much to say about that anymore.

But how is it that we know they exist ... & the gubmint still won't
admit it. Up to about 1975, they did admit it. Sorta.

As for my birthday ... I should treat myself to a movie.
Is the new Thor movie any good?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



I don’t typically attribute any sort of noble thinking to any gubmint, but maybe they realize if they do admit their existence they know some of our lesser citizens would hunt them into extinction. Maybe.

Thor movie - not sure, I think there have been good reviews, “just what we need in the Trump era.” The latest Harrison Ford Blade Runner gets really good reviews, looking forward to seeing it.

Did you ever play The Last of Us?

G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:51 AM

OONJERAH


G: "Did you ever play The Last of Us?"

Never heard of it.
In fact, haven't played the RPGs I know & love lately.
I've previewed a few on YouTube.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

are you quoting wiki to avoid honest discussion and just dance around inconveniently truthful definitions?

I don't see mention of urinating in public, or the complainant (victim) touching via body part OR Object intimate parts of the defendant. Both defined as Sexual Assault, although different States have different statutes.

And still dancing, kissing, hugging, massage, fully clothed is Sexual Assault, even consensual if the "victim" is the wrong age.

In what cases are Sexual Assaults charged or prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice, instead of the Local or State Prosecutor? Otherwise the DoJ definition has no meaning or application - only the Local laws actually enforced. - JSF

*****
Convicted? No. Admitted? Yes.
Nobody just accused these men and got believe and counted. These men ADMITTED what they'd done. And if they had admitted this in the presence of the police instead of researchers, they would have been found guilty.- KIKI

No. Nobody asked 20.4 million men and had 2.1 million men admit to researchers that they were guilty of sexual assault. - SIX

Now, since these men ADMITTED what they'd done, and I suspect men would be less likely to admit to it than not, the numbers are probably higher.- KIKI

If anybody quizzed 20.4 million men on the subject and 2.1 million of them had been stupid enough to admit that they had committed sexual assault, I would have to agree with you. But because that's not the case here at all..... nope.- SIX

SIX, there IS such as thing as statistical sampling. I know that it can be subject to abuse, and it can only provide an estimate (look at Hillary's polling) but it would be very difficult to conjure up a 13+% value out of near-zero. Rape and sexual assault .... respondents would want to hide those behaviors, don't you think?

******

I don't know what's going on with you two (SIX, JSF). Why is it so hard for you to accept that a significant minority of men are pigs? Is it because YOU'VE never done any such thing in the past?

Do you feel that women are making too much of a fuss about too little? Or that if women gain protections in this area, that you'll somehow be attacked?

I'd really like to know what's driving your response, since you get boggled when this comes up.

I personally have no problems with the idea that men are (generally) more aggressive when it comes to getting sex, and that men are ALSO discriminated against in this and other dimensions. So, what's the deal?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 11:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

are you quoting wiki to avoid honest discussion and just dance around inconveniently truthful definitions?

I don't see mention of urinating in public, or the complainant (victim) touching via body part OR Object intimate parts of the defendant. Both defined as Sexual Assault, although different States have different statutes.

And still dancing, kissing, hugging, massage, fully clothed is Sexual Assault, even consensual if the "victim" is the wrong age.

In what cases are Sexual Assaults charged or prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice, instead of the Local or State Prosecutor? Otherwise the DoJ definition has no meaning or application - only the Local laws actually enforced. - JSF

*****
Convicted? No. Admitted? Yes.
Nobody just accused these men and got believe and counted. These men ADMITTED what they'd done. And if they had admitted this in the presence of the police instead of researchers, they would have been found guilty.- KIKI

No. Nobody asked 20.4 million men and had 2.1 million men admit to researchers that they were guilty of sexual assault. - SIX

Now, since these men ADMITTED what they'd done, and I suspect men would be less likely to admit to it than not, the numbers are probably higher.- KIKI

If anybody quizzed 20.4 million men on the subject and 2.1 million of them had been stupid enough to admit that they had committed sexual assault, I would have to agree with you. But because that's not the case here at all..... nope.- SIX



SIX, there IS such as thing as statistical sampling. I know that it can be subject to abuse, and it can only provide an estimate (look at Hillary's polling) but it would be very difficult to conjure up a 13+% value out of near-zero. Rape and sexual assault .... respondents would want to hide those behaviors, don't you think?



Yes. I do think. I've asked Kiki to show me the questions asked. I'm going to go right ahead and assume that the questions in this study were as convoluted as your average ethics test given when applying for a job. Tests that I've stated on several occasions that I am VERY bad at. Which leads me to wonder how many questions were answered "wrong" simply because somebody was overthinking it.

First and foremost though, is how the statistics are presented to the general public by the MSM. They constantly throw in Rape with Sexual Assault, and do very little to distinguish the two. You can't deny that whenever these statistics are shown to the public, the emphasis on RAPE is key, and disingenuously inflates the belief that rape is far more prevalent than it actually is.

This is an even larger problem since almost anything these days can be considered sexual assault.

Quote:

I don't know what's going on with you two (SIX, JSF). Why is it so hard for you to accept that a significant minority of men are pigs? Is it because YOU'VE never done any such thing in the past?


I don't accept it because I don't believe it's true.

Quote:

Do you feel that women are making too much of a fuss about too little? Or that if women gain protections in this area, that you'll somehow be attacked?


I believe that the government and the MSM are making too much out of too little. I've also given potential reasons why this is happening.

A possible consequence of this...

As I stated above, I believe that a lot of men are going to opt-out of relationships and interactions with women altogether. For this and several of the other reasons I've talked about earlier in this thread.

This is already happening (see the MGTOW movement).


And my question to anybody who doesn't see where I'm coming from here is simple.

When men in large quantities start to opt-out of even attempting relationships with women, who is the more likely group to do so? The super-charged sex-tyrannosaurus types? Or the guys who weren't ever going to do any of this in the first place?



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I was going to show a clip from Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, but I couldn't find it on YouTube. I did find a very pro-feminist article on VICE that hated season three of Tina Fey's show though and mocked the scene.

Quote:

At one point, a guy hits on Kimmy by offering her a consent contract. This is an obvious nod to California's 2014 "yes means yes" law, which conservative pundits mocked as a prime example of liberal overreach, envisioning college students signing contracts before agreeing to go down on one another. Of course, that's not what the law actually entailed, but apparently the show's writers thought the concept of a dude asking a woman if it's OK to have sex with her was comedic gold.


It's not a new idea. Dave Chappelle had a skit about the sex contract on his show 15 years ago.

My point is, this is what things ARE coming to. Unless a guy starts wearing a camera or we have cameras set up everywhere, how is he to prove any allegations against him after the fact? Whenever they are brought up, a majority of people, especially in the MSM, automatically believe the allegations to be true. Lives have been ruined, or at least derailed significantly, simply because a woman decided the day after that what she did was a mistake.

There is NO WAY I would want to be going to college in 2017. No wonder all of these kids are crazy today.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:23 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Damnit, I had a detailed response written and it was lost to the ether. I have no idea why Spectrum's DNS seems to lose fff.net so often.

Well, later, SIX.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Meh... take your time. I'm going to be getting ready for my job orientation and won't be around till tonight. :)

I used to have a lot of problems losing posts here. I've noticed it hasn't happened for a very long time. I think it's because Firefox does a great job of keeping post data these days.

What browser do you use?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 1:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Meh... take your time. I'm going to be getting ready for my job orientation and won't be around till tonight. :)

I used to have a lot of problems losing posts here. I've noticed it hasn't happened for a very long time. I think it's because Firefox does a great job of keeping post data these days.

What browser do you use?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I never lost posts with Opera.
When forced to use Firefox or the Windows Virus, lose posts all the time.

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Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Meh... everybody has their own favorite. I've been using Firefox now for probably at least 15 years now and I love it. I never saw the need to change. There might be things I'm missing out on, but if Firefox can't do it I've yet to find something I wanted to make it do that I couldn't find an add-on for.

I never liked Internet Explorer, and Edge doesn't seem to be any better.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:55 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Meh... everybody has their own favorite. I've been using Firefox now for probably at least 15 years now and I love it. I never saw the need to change. There might be things I'm missing out on, but if Firefox can't do it I've yet to find something I wanted to make it do that I couldn't find an add-on for.

I never liked Internet Explorer, and Edge doesn't seem to be any better.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Opera is the Free high speed browser on a data diet. Fastest, most durable and resilient, very small file size, and wastes the least RAM.

Here's a test for you:
Open new tabs by selecting threads, but "open in a new tab"
Like 20 or 50 tabs all at once. Then close all but one.
Open another 20 to 50 threads, in new tabs.
Repeat this until your browser crashes, noting how many you could do.
Windows Virus would normally crash on the first 20-50. Firefox/Mozilla would oft last for 1 or 2 hundred.
Opera went for thousands, I never can make it crash.
If text thread don't crash your browser, go for graphics. Like a photo album, with links not on the same server. Or else pron, there are often lots of linkys to other videos/images.

I never needed an "add-on". Opera just works.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Here's a test for you:
Open new tabs by selecting threads, but "open in a new tab"
Like 20 or 50 tabs all at once. Then close all but one.
Open another 20 to 50 threads, in new tabs.
Repeat this until your browser crashes, noting how many you could do.
Windows Virus would normally crash on n the first 20-50. Firefox/Mozilla would you oft last for 1 or 2 hundred.
Opera went for thousands, I never can make it crash.
If text thread don't crash your browser, go for graphics. Like a photo album, with links not on the same server. Or else pron, there are often lots of linkys to other videos/images.

I never needed an "add-on". Opera just works.

While you are attempting to crash a browser to determine its functionality, Senators are worried that Trump's brain might crash at a critical moment. Who will reboot Trump? :

“We are concerned that the president of the United States is so unstable, is so volatile, has a decision-making process that is so quixotic, that he might order a nuclear weapons strike that is wildly out of step with U.S. national security interests,” Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said at the hearing.

Similarly, Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., said if the United States were ever threatened and the president had to act, she would want Trump “to act in a way that acknowledges input from a lot of experts, and not to act based on a Twitter post.” Trump’s behavior “contributes to the concern about whether we’re in a situation where we need to look at, in Congress, a first nuclear strike policy and banning that,” she added.

These concerns are not new. In January, Sen. Ed Markey, D-Mass., and Rep. Ted Lieu, D-Calif., introduced S.200 and H.R. 669, the Restricting First Use of Nuclear Weapons Act of 2017, to prohibit the president from launching a nuclear strike without a declaration of war by Congress.

Kehler, the former head of U.S. Strategic Command, on Tuesday said the U.S. military is “obligated” to prevent Trump from launching a nuclear strike against North Korea if it deems the order to be illegal.

But Kehler admitted it’s unclear how the military would determine if an order is illegal. If he were in a position in which he had questions about the legality of an order from the president, he would say “I have a question about this” and “I’m not ready to proceed,” he told the senators.

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/14/nuclear-war-donald-trump-nuclear-a
uthority
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just FYI I run the Debian distribution of Firefox, on a Debian Linux OS. I also have NoScript and SecurityBadger running on top of that.

Generally speaking, the problems that I have are either with the windowing GUI or with NoScript clobbering certain scripts running on the page; but in THIS case it was Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable/ TWC) which stopped being able to find the fff.net server. So what I got was an error from their DNS whem I tried to post my reply, giving me a series of options asking me WHICH website was I looking for?

Not a computer expert here, but it seems to me that Haken's server took too long to reply and the DNS didn't know what to do next. Anyway, it looks like the error overwrote what I had written and I couldn't just backspace to the page. What I really should do, if I want to write something long, is just write it out in gedit (text editor) and copy-paste it here. Just my uninformed $0.02.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Meh... everybody has their own favorite. I've been using Firefox now for probably at least 15 years now and I love it. I never saw the need to change. There might be things I'm missing out on, but if Firefox can't do it I've yet to find something I wanted to make it do that I couldn't find an add-on for.

I never liked Internet Explorer, and Edge doesn't seem to be any better.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Opera is the Free high speed browser on a data diet. Fastest, most durable and resilient, very small file size, and wastes the least RAM.

Here's a test for you:
Open new tabs by selecting threads, but "open in a new tab"
Like 20 or 50 tabs all at once. Then close all but one.
Open another 20 to 50 threads, in new tabs.
Repeat this until your browser crashes, noting how many you could do.
Windows Virus would normally crash on n the first 20-50. Firefox/Mozilla would you oft last for 1 or 2 hundred.
Opera went for thousands, I never can make it crash.
If text thread don't crash your browser, go for graphics. Like a photo album, with links not on the same server. Or else pron, there are often lots of linkys to other videos/images.

I never needed an "add-on". Opera just works.



You're probably right. I have had firefox crash on me on occasion when I have a lot of tabs open, usually when my computer has been on for days at a time. I won't say that I've never had more than 50 tabs open at a time, but at that point I was getting a bit carried away and/or lazy and figured I had the crash coming to me.


Can you download videos off of youtube and double click on any image and have the images automatically downloaded to the folder you specify for them? These are the only add-ons that I can think I've ever needed, although there's probably thousands more.

I'm not a fanboy or anything, and I'm not trying to convert you. You're obviously very attached to Opera.

I'm just not big on change myself, unless whatever I'm doing is personally impacting me in a negative way. Windows 10 is making me switch to Linux finally. Maybe the new Firefox Quantum will be even better than it was, or maybe it will force me to try another browser.


Quote:

Just FYI I run the Debian distribution of Firefox, on a Debian Linux OS. I also have NoScript and SecurityBadger running on top of that.

Generally speaking, the problems that I have are either with the windowing GUI or with NoScript clobbering certain scripts running on the page; but in THIS case it was Spectrum (formerly Time Warner Cable/ TMC) which stopped being able to find the fff.net server. So what I got was an error from their DNS whem I tried to post my reply, giving me a series of options asking me WHICH website was I looking for?

Not a computer expert here, but it seems to me that Haken's server took too long to reply and the DNS didn't know what to do next. Anyway, it looks like the error overwrote what I had written and I couldn't just backspace to the page. What I really should do, if I want to write something long, is just write it out in gedit (text editor) and copy-paste it here. Just my uninformed $0.02.



I've never used Firefox on Linux before, so I can't really say anything about it.

It's a good bet to blame it on fff.net's connectivity though, these days. In the last year or two I've had more problems with connectivity to this site than any other site I visit combined. Not complaining, mind you, it's really cool that the site is still up. Just sayin' it how it is.

I hate the solution of backing up things on a text document, but I've done that before even for posts on this site. I used to have a ton of problems with losing posts here and when I got back to the page they were gone. I don't know what changed, but I dont' have those problems anymore. Firefox could completely crash, but when I restart it the tab comes back up and all of my text is still there.

Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Firefox? Maybe give Opera a shot too if that doesn't work.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, here is the response that I had written before. I may not get back to this site for a while; if I'm really good I should be very busy for the next few months (at least six months, but I doubt my good intentions will last that long!)

Quote:

SIX, there IS such as thing as statistical sampling. I know that it can be subject to abuse, and it can only provide an estimate (look at Hillary's polling) but it would be very difficult to conjure up a 13+% value out of near-zero. Rape and sexual assault .... respondents would want to hide those behaviors, don't you think?- SIGNY

Yes. I do think. I've asked Kiki to show me the questions asked. I'm going to go right ahead and assume that the questions in this study were as convoluted as your average ethics test given when applying for a job. Tests that I've stated on several occasions that I am VERY bad at. Which leads me to wonder how many questions were answered "wrong" simply because somebody was overthinking it.- SIX

Usually, questions in this kind of survey aren't asked like "did you rape someone?" They usually ask about very specific behaviors:
Did you have sex with someone who was too drunk to stand up?
Did you touch someone's genitals without permission?

That's one of the ways that these surveys get around the problem of vague questions and/or the use of "trigger" words; but it may or may not apply in this case.

Quote:

First and foremost though, is how the statistics are presented to the general public by the MSM. They constantly throw in Rape with Sexual Assault, and do very little to distinguish the two. You can't deny that whenever these statistics are shown to the public, the emphasis on RAPE is key, and disingenuously inflates the belief that rape is far more prevalent than it actually is.

This is an even larger problem since almost anything these days can be considered sexual assault.- SIX

You say this like it's a bad thing. How would YOU feel if some bigger guy grabbed your crotch without permission?

Quote:

I don't know what's going on with you two (SIX, JSF). Why is it so hard for you to accept that a significant minority of men are pigs? Is it because YOU'VE never done any such thing in the past? - SIGNY

I don't accept it because I don't believe it's true.- SIX

Well, if you don't believe that 13+% of men are pigs, what percentage do YOU place it at? And what are your reasons for picking that number?

Quote:

Do you feel that women are making too much of a fuss about too little? Or that if women gain protections in this area, that you'll somehow be attacked?- SIGNY

I believe that the government and the MSM are making too much out of too little.- SIX

So, what level of coverage at what level of crime do you think is appropriate, and why?

Quote:

I've also given potential reasons why this is happening.- SIX
I'm awfully sorry SIX, I thought I read your posts with care, but I don't recall that(those) post(s) addressing the "why this is happening" so can you give a quick recap?

Quote:

A possible consequence of this...
As I stated above, I believe that a lot of men are going to opt-out of relationships and interactions with women altogether. For this and several of the other reasons I've talked about earlier in this thread.
This is already happening (see the MGTOW movement).
And my question to anybody who doesn't see where I'm coming from here is simple.
When men in large quantities start to opt-out of even attempting relationships with women, who is the more likely group to do so? The super-charged sex-tyrannosaurus types? Or the guys who weren't ever going to do any of this in the first place?- SIX

Maybe there should be a WOMEN Going Their Own Way (WGTOW) movement. If women were to rely on EACH OTHER for practical support and validation, they wouldn't feel compelled to attach themselves to a man, and any assocation would be purely voluntary.

One of the constant features of these cases of alleged (and proven) sexual abuse is the sheer number of women who are being assaulted over years and years with no reports being generated. Look at the nymber of girl Olympic gymnasts who were being raped by the team doctor, or the number of women allegedly abused by Weinstein, or Bill Cosby. In some ways, this is akin to the Sandusky crimes. How many children were abused over how many years? What is wrong with our system that this can go on for so long with nobody noticing? Part of the problem is that if you have a differential in age or power, the victims can be intimidated; part of the problem is that the crime happens in private; part of the problem is that it is being enabled by people close to the criminal. This is like what happened in my workplace (before significant protections were enacted) where there was one supervisor who made my work life an living hell for 5 years; I thought I was the only one but 20-40 years later I learned that he victimized many others. Multiple omplaints come out when one brave person complains first.

Have you ever taken a first aid course? They mention specifically the "bystander" effect: Nobody does anything until ONE person does something, this seems very similar.

So if we can figure out a way to get this victimization reported in a more timely manner we'll be light years ahead of where we are now.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:53 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

One of the constant features of these cases of alleged (and proven) sexual abuse is the sheer number of women who are being assaulted over years and years with no reports being generated. Look at the nymber of girl Olympic gymnasts who were being raped by the team doctor, or the number of women allegedly abused by Weinstein, or Bill Cosby. In some ways, this is akin to the Sandusky crimes. How many children were abused over how many years? What is wrong with our system that this can go on for so long with nobody noticing? Part of the problem is that if you have a differential in age or power, the victims can be intimidated; part of the problem is that the crime happens in private; part of the problem is that it is being enabled by people close to the criminal. This is like what happened in my workplace (before significant protections were enacted) where there was one supervisor who made my work life an living hell for 5 years; I thought I was the only one but 20-40 years later I learned that he victimized many others. Multiple omplaints come out when one brave person complains first.




Just like Roy Moore - right?

G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:59 AM

THGRRI



G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.


Enjoying yourself I hope.






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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 12:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

One of the constant features of these cases of alleged (and proven) sexual abuse is the sheer number of women who are being assaulted over years and years with no reports being generated. Look at the nymber of girl Olympic gymnasts who were being raped by the team doctor, or the number of women allegedly abused by Weinstein, or Bill Cosby. In some ways, this is akin to the Sandusky crimes. How many children were abused over how many years? What is wrong with our system that this can go on for so long with nobody noticing? Part of the problem is that if you have a differential in age or power, the victims can be intimidated; part of the problem is that the crime happens in private; part of the problem is that it is being enabled by people close to the criminal. This is like what happened in my workplace (before significant protections were enacted) where there was one supervisor who made my work life an living hell for 5 years; I thought I was the only one but 20-40 years later I learned that he victimized many others. Multiple omplaints come out when one brave person complains first.- SIGNY

Just like Roy Moore - right?- GSTRING



You might not have noticed, but I haven't weighed in on the guilt (or not) of Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, Harvey Weinstein, Jerry Sandusky or Roy Moore, except that I have accepted the verdicts of jury trials. In complex cases where evidence may be equivocal, I feel that I don't have enough time to even find all of the relevant evidence, much less parse all of the available information in an objective way. So I withhold judgment on specific accusations.

In the case of Harvey Weinstein, he left a trail of evidence with a number of NDAs (which should be admissible in trial), a tape recording, and the statements of eyewitnesses.

I don't know at what point the sheer number of allegations itself becomes evidence, even tho the individual cases may be weak. I haven't thought enough about it to figure out a way where complaints can be heard and not create a witch hunt. I'm sure this is an important topic to lawyers, but there are other things that interest me a lot more.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 1:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Meh... everybody has their own favorite. I've been using Firefox now for probably at least 15 years now and I love it. I never saw the need to change. There might be things I'm missing out on, but if Firefox can't do it I've yet to find something I wanted to make it do that I couldn't find an add-on for.

I never liked Internet Explorer, and Edge doesn't seem to be any better.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Opera is the Free high speed browser on a data diet. Fastest, most durable and resilient, very small file size, and wastes the least RAM.

Here's a test for you:
Open new tabs by selecting threads, but "open in a new tab"
Like 20 or 50 tabs all at once. Then close all but one.
Open another 20 to 50 threads, in new tabs.
Repeat this until your browser crashes, noting how many you could do.
Windows Virus would normally crash on n the first 20-50. Firefox/Mozilla would you oft last for 1 or 2 hundred.
Opera went for thousands, I never can make it crash.
If text thread don't crash your browser, go for graphics. Like a photo album, with links not on the same server. Or else pron, there are often lots of linkys to other videos/images.

I never needed an "add-on". Opera just works.

You're probably right. I have had firefox crash on me on occasion when I have a lot of tabs open, usually when my computer has been on for days at a time. I won't say that I've never had more than 50 tabs open at a time, but at that point I was getting a bit carried away and/or lazy and figured I had the crash coming to me.


you are fully immersed in the Micro$haft Windows Virus mentality.
You had a computer crash coming to you?
Really?
Before Windows, computers were NOT supposed to crash. Crashes were caused by bugs, and needed to be corrected. The failure (or actually, the success of their business model) of Windows has been crashes, problems, failures, glitches acceptable, and even expected. GASP! Whenever this happens you must rush out to throw your $ at Micro$haft for your fix of their newest Virus, and install it in your computer.
Computers are supposed to work.
Computers are supposed to be the slaves of men.
You are not supposed to be the Slave to your computer. Only mastermind Billy Gates has convinced you to succumb to this paradigm.
Don't put up with defective computer software, and your life will be easier and more pleasant.
I just remembered. The laptop I just used for updating all my financial info, Football data, vehicle records is an IBM Thinkpad from, I believe, 1994. Never had a problem. It keeps working, I have no worries, because I don't run the Windows Virus on it.
I've been using Opera for about 15 years, IIRC. Why should I change from the one that works?
Having easy quick access to gobs of different sources and references is like having whole encyclopedias at your fingertips. I don't care how many tabs I have open, as long as I can find which one has the link I want to double check. No need to close a tab and lose the link that evaded you for hours. I've had more tabs open than I could even see - denser than a picket fence, and the fence posts just get narrower. When the tabs get narrower than a pixel width, then it becomes more difficult to select the tab you desire. That is when I close some tabs that I don't think I'll need anymore, to make the other tabs wider.
That is maximizing my productivity and efficiency. But no need to be afraid of crashes in your self-imposed cage.
Opera is so small you could fit it on even the smallest thumbdrive.
Quote:


Can you download videos off of youtube and double click on any image and have the images automatically downloaded to the folder you specify for them? These are the only add-ons that I can think I've ever needed, although there's probably thousands more.

I'm not a fanboy or anything, and I'm not trying to convert you. You're obviously very attached to Opera.

I'm attached to what works, not others which intentionally fail.
Quote:


I'm just not big on change myself, unless whatever I'm doing is personally impacting me in a negative way. Windows 10 is making me switch to Linux finally. Maybe the new Firefox Quantum will be even better than it was, or maybe it will force me to try another browser.
Quote:

Just FYI I run the Debian distribution of Firefox, on a Debian Linux OS. I also have NoScript and SecurityBadger running on top of that.

Not a computer expert here, but it seems to me that Haken's server took too long to reply and the DNS didn't know what to do next. Anyway, it looks like the error overwrote what I had written and I couldn't just backspace to the page. What I really should do, if I want to write something long, is just write it out in gedit (text editor) and copy-paste it here. Just my uninformed $0.02.


I hate the solution of backing up things on a text document, but I've done that before even for posts on this site. I used to have a ton of problems with losing posts here and when I got back to the page they were gone. Firefox could completely crash, but when I restart it the tab comes back up and all of my text is still there.

Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Firefox? Maybe give Opera a shot too if that doesn't work.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I don't understand all your complicated special text editor junk. Just use any Word Processing app and copy it. Word Perfect, Word Star, or even MSWord, Wordpad, Notepad.
And your chosen software overwriting your text? This is NOT the fault of your ISP. Your defective software is on your computer. Connections are outside your computer.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Meh... If it bothered me enough to do something about it, I would have. I'm obviously not the type to "be a slave" to anything, let alone my computer. I think you might be being a tad melodramatic here.

At the end of the day I get done whatever I'm looking to get done. I don't really care about security since I'm not doing anything that I'd really care if anybody gets their hands on, and if somebody steals my credit info somehow I'm not on the hook for anything that happens with it.

Firefox does what I need it to do just fine. If I have to close it down every few days it's really not much of a bother. It's certainly not enough to get me to learn how to use another program that does the same thing.


Windows 10, on the other hand, is making me make the switch to Linux. Not because of any security flaws or failures. But because they're dumbing it down so much for the masses that some actual useful tools that were taken for granted are either gone or just don't work well anymore. Hell... Deleting a folder with a lot of files can now take ages to accomplish. This should be a 3 second ordeal. I don't know what they were thinking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 2:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Meh... If it bothered me enough to do something about it, I would have. I'm obviously not the type to "be a slave" to anything, let alone my computer. I think you might be being a tad melodramatic here.

At the end of the day I get done whatever I'm looking to get done. I don't really care about security since I'm not doing anything that I'd really care if anybody gets their hands on, and if somebody steals my credit info somehow I'm not on the hook for anything that happens with it.

Firefox does what I need it to do just fine. If I have to close it down every few days it's really not much of a bother. It's certainly not enough to get me to learn how to use another program that does the same thing.


Windows 10, on the other hand, is making me make the switch to Linux. Not because of any security flaws or failures. But because they're dumbing it down so much for the masses that some actual useful tools that were taken for granted are either gone or just don't work well anymore. Hell... Deleting a folder with a lot of files can now take ages to accomplish. This should be a 3 second ordeal. I don't know what they were thinking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Briefly.
Opera.
Free.
Quick.
Free.
Easy.
Free.
Quick download and install.
Free.
Use it when you feel like it.
Free.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


LOL... alright. Doesn't hurt anything to try it out.

I feel like you're trying to recruit me for a cult. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, here is the response that I had written before. I may not get back to this site for a while; if I'm really good I should be very busy for the next few months (at least six months, but I doubt my good intentions will last that long!)

Quote:

SIX, there IS such as thing as statistical sampling. I know that it can be subject to abuse, and it can only provide an estimate (look at Hillary's polling) but it would be very difficult to conjure up a 13+% value out of near-zero. Rape and sexual assault .... respondents would want to hide those behaviors, don't you think?- SIGNY

Yes. I do think. I've asked Kiki to show me the questions asked. I'm going to go right ahead and assume that the questions in this study were as convoluted as your average ethics test given when applying for a job. Tests that I've stated on several occasions that I am VERY bad at. Which leads me to wonder how many questions were answered "wrong" simply because somebody was overthinking it.- SIX

Usually, questions in this kind of survey aren't asked like "did you rape someone?" They usually ask about very specific behaviors:
Did you have sex with someone who was too drunk to stand up?
Did you touch someone's genitals without permission?

That's one of the ways that these surveys get around the problem of vague questions and/or the use of "trigger" words; but it may or may not apply in this case.

Quote:

First and foremost though, is how the statistics are presented to the general public by the MSM. They constantly throw in Rape with Sexual Assault, and do very little to distinguish the two. You can't deny that whenever these statistics are shown to the public, the emphasis on RAPE is key, and disingenuously inflates the belief that rape is far more prevalent than it actually is.

This is an even larger problem since almost anything these days can be considered sexual assault.- SIX

You say this like it's a bad thing. How would YOU feel if some bigger guy grabbed your crotch without permission?

Quote:

I don't know what's going on with you two (SIX, JSF). Why is it so hard for you to accept that a significant minority of men are pigs? Is it because YOU'VE never done any such thing in the past? - SIGNY

I don't accept it because I don't believe it's true.- SIX

Well, if you don't believe that 13+% of men are pigs, what percentage do YOU place it at? And what are your reasons for picking that number?

Quote:

Do you feel that women are making too much of a fuss about too little? Or that if women gain protections in this area, that you'll somehow be attacked?- SIGNY

I believe that the government and the MSM are making too much out of too little.- SIX

So, what level of coverage at what level of crime do you think is appropriate, and why?

Quote:

I've also given potential reasons why this is happening.- SIX
I'm awfully sorry SIX, I thought I read your posts with care, but I don't recall that(those) post(s) addressing the "why this is happening" so can you give a quick recap?

Quote:

A possible consequence of this...
As I stated above, I believe that a lot of men are going to opt-out of relationships and interactions with women altogether. For this and several of the other reasons I've talked about earlier in this thread.
This is already happening (see the MGTOW movement).
And my question to anybody who doesn't see where I'm coming from here is simple.
When men in large quantities start to opt-out of even attempting relationships with women, who is the more likely group to do so? The super-charged sex-tyrannosaurus types? Or the guys who weren't ever going to do any of this in the first place?- SIX

Maybe there should be a WOMEN Going Their Own Way (WGTOW) movement. If women were to rely on EACH OTHER for practical support and validation, they wouldn't feel compelled to attach themselves to a man, and any assocation would be purely voluntary.

One of the constant features of these cases of alleged (and proven) sexual abuse is the sheer number of women who are being assaulted over years and years with no reports being generated. Look at the nymber of girl Olympic gymnasts who were being raped by the team doctor, or the number of women allegedly abused by Weinstein, or Bill Cosby. In some ways, this is akin to the Sandusky crimes. How many children were abused over how many years? What is wrong with our system that this can go on for so long with nobody noticing? Part of the problem is that if you have a differential in age or power, the victims can be intimidated; part of the problem is that the crime happens in private; part of the problem is that it is being enabled by people close to the criminal. This is like what happened in my workplace (before significant protections were enacted) where there was one supervisor who made my work life an living hell for 5 years; I thought I was the only one but 20-40 years later I learned that he victimized many others. Multiple omplaints come out when one brave person complains first.

Have you ever taken a first aid course? They mention specifically the "bystander" effect: Nobody does anything until ONE person does something, this seems very similar.

So if we can figure out a way to get this victimization reported in a more timely manner we'll be light years ahead of where we are now.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake



Yanno what? I feel like we've hit an impasse and this conversation is not going to go any further.

I guess my advice to college age girls would be to either stay in packs when drinking, or don't get drunk. If you really have a 13% chance that any given male is going to rape you or grab your pussy, this is probably not bad advice.


Feel completely free to start a Women Going Their Own Way movement. I think they already have one though, and it's called Feminism in 2017.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


Yanno what? I feel like we've hit an impasse and this conversation is not going to go any further.- SIX

Aww, too bad. I felt like we were really getting somewhere.

Quote:

I guess my advice to college age girls would be to either stay in packs when drinking, or don't get drunk. If you really have a 13% chance that any given male is going to rape you or grab your pussy, this is probably not bad advice.- SIX
Agreed.

I just hope that my take-home message on discrimination didn't get lost in the shuffle: That just because one group is discriminated against in favor of another, doesn't mean that the favored group ALSO isn't discriminated against, sometimes along the same metrics and sometimes along others. Equality is one thing that ISN'T a zero-sum game. In fact, by definition, it has to be spread around, equally.


******

And now, back to our originally scheduled program ....

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:04 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

One of the constant features of these cases of alleged (and proven) sexual abuse is the sheer number of women who are being assaulted over years and years with no reports being generated. Look at the nymber of girl Olympic gymnasts who were being raped by the team doctor, or the number of women allegedly abused by Weinstein, or Bill Cosby. In some ways, this is akin to the Sandusky crimes. How many children were abused over how many years? What is wrong with our system that this can go on for so long with nobody noticing? Part of the problem is that if you have a differential in age or power, the victims can be intimidated; part of the problem is that the crime happens in private; part of the problem is that it is being enabled by people close to the criminal. This is like what happened in my workplace (before significant protections were enacted) where there was one supervisor who made my work life an living hell for 5 years; I thought I was the only one but 20-40 years later I learned that he victimized many others. Multiple omplaints come out when one brave person complains first.- SIGNY

Just like Roy Moore - right?- GSTRING



You might not have noticed, but I haven't weighed in on the guilt (or not) of Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, Harvey Weinstein, Jerry Sandusky or Roy Moore, except that I have accepted the verdicts of jury trials. In complex cases where evidence may be equivocal, I feel that I don't have enough time to even find all of the relevant evidence, much less parse all of the available information in an objective way. So I withhold judgment on specific accusations.

In the case of Harvey Weinstein, he left a trail of evidence with a number of NDAs (which should be admissible in trial), a tape recording, and the statements of eyewitnesses.

I don't know at what point the sheer number of allegations itself becomes evidence, even tho the individual cases may be weak. I haven't thought enough about it to figure out a way where complaints can be heard and not create a witch hunt. I'm sure this is an important topic to lawyers, but there are other things that interest me a lot more.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake



And I was a lot more interested to see if you agreed with yourself. Seems almost as if iwhen something happens to you it’s one thing, and when it happens to others it’s something else.

G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 10:08 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.



Enjoying yourself I hope.






Yes, thx T. Nothing is as inspiring as travel imho, no matter how short the distance. I highly recommend it!

G, traveling, posting as CaptainCrunch. Replies may be spotty or non existant.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And I was a lot more interested to see if you agreed with yourself. Seems almost as if iwhen something happens to you it’s one thing, and when it happens to others it’s something else.- GSTRING
I have no idea what you're trying to say. If something happens to me, I KNOW what happened. If someone tells the press what happened to them, I DON'T know what happened, I only know what they "said" happened. It's important to differentiate between what someone SAYS and what ACTUALLY HAPPENED; the two can be very different.


Sometimes you're just ... weird.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:


Yanno what? I feel like we've hit an impasse and this conversation is not going to go any further.- SIX

Aww, too bad. I felt like we were really getting somewhere.

Quote:

I guess my advice to college age girls would be to either stay in packs when drinking, or don't get drunk. If you really have a 13% chance that any given male is going to rape you or grab your pussy, this is probably not bad advice.- SIX
Agreed.

I just hope that my take-home message on discrimination didn't get lost in the shuffle: That just because one group is discriminated against in favor of another, doesn't mean that the favored group ALSO isn't discriminated against, sometimes along the same metrics and sometimes along others. Equality is one thing that ISN'T a zero-sum game. In fact, by definition, it has to be spread around, equally.



I get what you're saying, but I'm going to risk being accused of "victim blaming" when I say that a lot of the issues that (some) women complain about today are things that they could (and many do) easily avoid if they do for themselves and I don't see how it does women any good to talk about being strong and independent and then out of the other side of their mouth demand special protections based off their gender.

I think the biggest problem with the Feminist movement today is the desire to have equal rights that men do, while also maintaining protections and special treatments that had before they had the equal rights too.

If you don't want to have sex when you're drunk, don't get drunk and have sex. I don't know how much simpler that can be.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 12:28 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
LOL... alright. Doesn't hurt anything to try it out.

I feel like you're trying to recruit me for a cult. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Let me know when you've tried it out and how amazed you feel.
I'll welcome you to the cult. The Sick of Windows cult.

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:59 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
are you quoting wiki to avoid honest discussion and just dance around inconveniently truthful definitions?

I don't see mention of urinating in public, or the complainant (victim) touching via body part OR Object intimate parts of the defendant. Both defined as Sexual Assault, although different States have different statutes.

And still dancing, kissing, hugging, massage, fully clothed is Sexual Assault, even consensual if the "victim" is the wrong age.

In what cases are Sexual Assaults charged or prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice, instead of the Local or State Prosecutor? Otherwise the DoJ definition has no meaning or application - only the Local laws actually enforced.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

I reject that.

If men were crying rape after sex your post might be valid, but they're not, so this post is pointless.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:18 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

No. Nobody asked 20.4 million men and had 2.1 million men admit to researchers that they were guilty of sexual assault.

sophistry, jack.

There's such a thing as statistical sampling. With that many respondents you'll get within a percent or two of the actual number.

btwe I can think of a lot of legitimate reasons to reject respondents, such as incomplete information, inability to follow-up, over-representation of some categories over others, and so on.

The FACT remains that these were ADMITTED acts, not accused acts, hack. And the numbers are reasonably sound.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Any of their actions at any time could be misconstrued and turned into something that was never intended."

But not rape or assault, jack. Those involve touching. Focus, jack. Focus.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:25 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I've been around only a bit so I hope I didn't miss your birthday:

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY OONJERAH !!!!

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:45 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I've asked Kiki to show me the questions asked." I went back and skimmed over old posts. I didn't find this.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 2:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I get what you're saying, but I'm going to risk being accused of "victim blaming" when I say that a lot of the issues that (some) women complain about today are things that they could (and many do) easily avoid if they do for themselves and I don't see how it does women any good to talk about being strong and independent and then out of the other side of their mouth demand special protections based off their gender.

I think the biggest problem with the Feminist movement today is the desire to have equal rights that men do, while also maintaining protections and special treatments that had before they had the equal rights too.

If you don't want to have sex when you're drunk, don't get drunk and have sex. I don't know how much simpler that can be.

You're right SIX, I'm going to accuse you of victim-blaming. Is it a "special protection" to NOT be groped or raped?

Is it "special protection" to be listened to and taken as seriously as a man?

It's interesting that you can find a lot of way for WOMEN to change their behavior, and yet you seem to take the behavior of (in your view) a VERY small minority of men as a given. Even tho you said
Quote:

Men obviously aren't entirely blameless. You know I don't deal in absolutes.
NOWHERE have you even hinted that possibly this small minority of men should change THEIR behavior; to be something other than boors and assholes. And since you seem to tolerate their behavior and assume others should accept/ accommodate it too, then I would have to say that YOU support a system of discrimination - and even violence - against women.

*****

I don't think that our widespread prejudices are "just" because of assholes and individuals who defend them. I think a lot of prejudices are in many ways encouraged by our media. I'm just saying that I would have thought you'd have more insight than what you demonstrated.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

It's interesting that you can find a lot of way for WOMEN to change their behavior, and yet you seem to take the behavior of (in your view) a VERY small minority of men as a given.



Because I reject the number based off of a sampling of 14,000+ men, when only 4,000 of them were used and there was no explanation to why the other 10,000 weren't.

Also note that this was a study at only two colleges. Maybe they were for one reason or another targeted for this study? Why base a number for the entire nation using partial data from only two universities?


If we're just going to go by numbers, then how come 4 out of 5 women at college make it out just fine? I'm guessing it's because they aren't willingly getting trashed every weekend around a bunch of like minded individuals who are also getting trashed and want to get fucked just as much as they do.

There should be no special protection for ANYBODY getting fucked up.

If any of these same girls got behind a car and killed somebody they wouldn't get out of jail free because they were drunk. Why do they suddenly become victims when they have sex when they're fucked up?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 6:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Because I reject the number based off of a sampling of 14,000+ men, when only 4,000 of them were used and there was no explanation to why the other 10,000 weren't.- SOX
Dood, I'm accepting your contention, for the sake of discussion, that the percent of men groping or raping college women is smaller than the 13+% in the paper.

Let's say 5%. Does that sound better? 2%? 1%?

Somewhere in your many many posts you COULD have said ... "Well, it goes without saying that the very small number of men who behave in a predatory fashion towards women should be disciplined so that their behavior doesn't reflect on the vast majority."

What would happen in a culture where "no" really DID mean "no", and men would behave in a respectful fashion towards women?

Well, among other things, women would have to be honest about their desire for sex. Instead, we have a culture where men and women get to play this mutual dishonest game where men get to decide when to have sex and at the same time get to shoulder the blame for the decision-making. Not fair to men OR women, is it?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 9:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


If a woman actually gets raped, the man should be locked away. If it's found out after the fact that she lied about it, she should be locked away for the same amount of time he would have been.

That's all you're going to get from me.

If a man grabs a chicks ass, she should kick him in the balls, or have her boyfriend do it.

Everybody needs to stop being such a pussy.


4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)?

It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 11:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If a woman actually gets raped, the man should be locked away. If it's found out after the fact that she lied about it, she should be locked away for the same amount of time he would have been.

That's all you're going to get from me.

If a man grabs a chicks ass, she should kick him in the balls, or have her boyfriend do it.

Everybody needs to stop being such a pussy. - SIX

Why?
Why does "everyone" need to stop being such a "pussy"?
Do you think women should act like men?
Do you think mens' behavior should determine morality?

Yanno, just touching ANYone with a hostile intent in CA is considered "battery" (one step up from assault).
There's a reason why it's called "sexual assault" ... focus on the word assault.
Are you OK with assault?

It seems to me that you're excusing unnecessarily aggressive behavior, whether it's between men, or between men and women, or between women, and whether it involves genitals or not.

At what point .... how aggressively .... would one have to behave in order to trip your threshold to say "not OK"? Let's say that a woman silently removes a man's hand from her breast several times, but it keeps creeping back. Is that OK? What about if he keeps touching her crotch and she says "No"? What about if he grabs hard enough to leave bruises? Repeatedly rubs his crotch against her on the bus or in the subway? How about catcalls? Following her partway down the sidewalk making kissy noises?

I know that the ideal of constant re-affirmation during sex (yanno, a woman constantly having to say "yes" to each progression of sex) isn't workable and the lines are pretty blurred, there are a lot of gray areas that a man could get tripped up on, but drawing the line at "rape" is like drawing the line at getting knifed before calling "foul", it gives too much leeway to the aggressor. I'd draw the line elsewhere.

Quote:

4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)?
What about "IN ADDITION TO"?

I've already conceded that I think women need to take more responsibility for their behavior and for the outcomes in their lives. Remaining a silent victim for years and years; or getting drunk in compromising situations; or not saying "no" when you mean "no"; is irresponsible. On the other hand, putting all of the onus on the presumed victim, and none on the aggressor, is kind of bass-ackwards, don't you think?

Quote:

It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle.
It seems to me that focusing on the behavior of the smaller percentage of perps - from a criminal angle - is more effective than focusing on the behavior of the much larger percentage of potential victims from an education angle. But by all means, do both.

Quote:

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Indeed.

Still, I think you're missing a much larger picture. Both men and women do things that they don't necessarily want to do ... like having to defend yourself physically against a much larger opponent or accepting violent "hazing" rituals or conceding to have sex when you don't want to ... because it's EXPECTED of them. That's pretty dysfunctional messaging. Where are those messages coming from and how can we stop them?

I think a lot of social dysfunction comes from bad "messaging"; we really should examine social expectations and maybe work on changing some of them.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So I just want to parenthetically hive this discussion off for a moment in a slightly different direction.

I think the presumption is that men are expected to be the sexual aggressors: they're expected to make the "first move".

But why is aggression even mentioned in the context of sex?

I know people would point to sociobiology and the "selfish gene" and say that a male who "spreads his seed" effectively will have a larger genetic impact on the following population and that the male role is genetically determined, and indeed in most societies today males follow that role.

But it's not universal; in the remaining matrilineal societies, where women make the decisions and own and inherit the property, THEY are the ones initiating sex and making - and breaking - relationships.
The Place In China Where The Women Lead

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/11/26/501012446/the-place-
in-china-where-the-women-lead

According to Wiki, there are about 20 societies that are both matrilineal and matrilocal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_matrilineal_or_matrilocal_societ
ies


In other societies, males engage in mass displays of fitness and the women select from among them:

The Wodaabe wife-stealing festival: Stunning images from the world's vainest tribe where men dress up to take each other's women - and the women have as many husbands as they please
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149684/The-Wodaabe-wife-steal
ing-festival-Stunning-images-world-s-vainest-tribe-men-dress-s-women-women-husbands-please.html


Even the concept that males are genetically aggressive in general took a beating (so to speak) when a chimp tribe lost all of its most aggressive males (they "out-competed" lesser males for beef carcasses thrown in a restaurant bin, but contracted tuberculosis and died because the scraps were tainted) and converted to a peaceful matrilineal society which has withstood the inclusion of several "outmember" males and three generations (that's the last I heard of them).

So the social role of male aggression isn't biologically driven ... at least, not inescapably so.

The problem is that THIS society rewards aggression.

Why?

Because the rules and messages are being made by the most aggressive, who've managed to ensconce themselves at the top?

Anyway, just something to think about.

****

More directly, I think that a lot of young men are learning about their sexual role from porn, which features a lot of aggression towards women. Having the next generations learn about sex, or life in general, from a videoscreen is a real problem for society going forward, at least IMHO.

Again, just noodling.

And now, I have to get back to real life.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 4:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Let's say that a woman silently removes a man's hand from her breast several times, but it keeps creeping back. Is that OK? What about if he keeps touching her crotch and she says "No"? What about if he grabs hard enough to leave bruises? Repeatedly rubs his crotch against her on the bus or in the subway? How about catcalls? Following her partway down the sidewalk making kissy noises?



I have never, ever, EVER in my life seen any of these things happen.

I'm fairly certain that in most cases if this were to happen in public, you'd have more than one man in the vicinity getting in the middle of it.

I'm not as old as some people who post here, but I'm not a kid. I've been around and seen the changes in society. I'm not going to say that these things don't occur just because I don't see them, but I'm not going to believe for a second that 13.2% of men would do any of them.

Quote:

I know that the ideal of constant re-affirmation during sex (yanno, a woman constantly having to say "yes" to each progression of sex) isn't workable and the lines are pretty blurred, there are a lot of gray areas that a man could get tripped up on, but drawing the line at "rape" is like drawing the line at getting knifed before calling "foul", it gives too much leeway to the aggressor. I'd draw the line elsewhere.


I don't like your rules. I've opted out. The only reason I've even had sex in the last 4 or so years is because she was literally jumping on my lap and she had everything to lose. I didn't even have to leave my own house.

This is the level of desperation that will likely happen in the coming decades when most men just decide that sex isn't worth it at all anymore and there are many easier and safer and far less expensive alternatives. Women have 100% power in any relationship, and that's written in stone once the marriage contracts are signed with the government. No thank you. I decline.

Quote:

4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)? -Six


Quote:

What about "IN ADDITION TO"?


I did. Hence the "also" you missed.

Quote:

I've already conceded that I think women need to take more responsibility for their behavior and for the outcomes in their lives. Remaining a silent victim for years and years; or getting drunk in compromising situations; or not saying "no" when you mean "no"; is irresponsible. On the other hand, putting all of the onus on the presumed victim, and none on the aggressor, is kind of bass-ackwards, don't you think?


I can't think of a single instance in my life, as a white male, that anybody ever gave me the benefit of the doubt or made excuses for my stupidity. I'm essentially a libertarian in all other aspects of my life and I don't see why I should make any changes to that for this topic. Personal responsibility is paramount. Nobody gets a do-over.

When you're doing the right thing, you're prepared for anything that happens and you have good situational awareness and somebody STILL goes out of their way and manages to hurt you, that's a different scenario altogether.

Quote:

It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle. -Six


Quote:

It seems to me that focusing on the behavior of the smaller percentage of perps - from a criminal angle - is more effective than focusing on the behavior of the much larger percentage of potential victims from an education angle. But by all means, do both. -Sigs


Yep. That's what I said.

Problem is they only go after males.

Quote:

Still, I think you're missing a much larger picture. Both men and women do things that they don't necessarily want to do ... like having to defend yourself physically against a much larger opponent or accepting violent "hazing" rituals or conceding to have sex when you don't want to ... because it's EXPECTED of them. That's pretty dysfunctional messaging. Where are those messages coming from and how can we stop them?

I think a lot of social dysfunction comes from bad "messaging"; we really should examine social expectations and maybe work on changing some of them.



I don't know where they're coming from. I don't put them off myself. I've been stabbed and beaten within an inch of my life with no insurance or safety net before.

Life sucks sometimes. What are you gonna do?

The only way to "fix" this is to homogenize thinking entirely and strip people of their free will and individuality. I'm sure with time, they'll have a drug for that. I hope I'm dead and gone before that day comes. In the mean time, protect yourself, don't to anything too reckless, and be willing to own up to the consequences if you do so and get burned.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 5:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You seem to think that your "libertarian" POV is ... or should be ... the end-all-be-all for society.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You seem to think that your "libertarian" POV is ... or should be ... the end-all-be-all for society.



I'm not telling anybody what to do. I just don't want anybody telling me what to do either.

I think the world would be a much better place to live if everybody lived by the non-aggression principal. Nothing is perfect, but it would be better, and we wouldn't have so many people crying about needing special protections and privileges either.

Just keep in mind that a male is just as likely to behave out of character when they're drunk as a woman is. I've lived it. My history of bullshit posts here is living proof of it. But I've never gone back and deleted a single one, even though I'm fully able to do so here. I'm ashamed of my behavior when I was drinking, but I'm not ashamed of who I am. I own it.

It's your choice as a woman to put yourself in a potentially bad situation as often as you choose to. Just don't ask me to feel sorry for it or apologize for my gender when something bad happens.

Some people are just shitty people. I'm willing to wager that there's just as many of them with vaginas as there are with penises.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The world is full of shitty people, but it's the ones with power that you have to look out for!


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Bingo.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 17, 2017 4:24 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Let's say that a woman silently removes a man's hand from her breast several times, but it keeps creeping back. Is that OK? What about if he keeps touching her crotch and she says "No"? What about if he grabs hard enough to leave bruises? Repeatedly rubs his crotch against her on the bus or in the subway? How about catcalls? Following her partway down the sidewalk making kissy noises?



I have never, ever, EVER in my life seen any of these things happen.

I'm fairly certain that in most cases if this were to happen in public, you'd have more than one man in the vicinity getting in the middle of it.

that sounds to me like a New York City thing
Quote:


I'm not as old as some people who post here, but I'm not a kid. I've been around and seen the changes in society. I'm not going to say that these things don't occur just because I don't see them, but I'm not going to believe for a second that 13.2% of men would do any of them.

Quote:

I know that the ideal of constant re-affirmation during sex (yanno, a woman constantly having to say "yes" to each progression of sex) isn't workable and the lines are pretty blurred, there are a lot of gray areas that a man could get tripped up on, but drawing the line at "rape" is like drawing the line at getting knifed before calling "foul", it gives too much leeway to the aggressor. I'd draw the line elsewhere.


I don't like your rules. I've opted out. The only reason I've even had sex in the last 4 or so years is because she was literally jumping on my lap and she had everything to lose. I didn't even have to leave my own house.

This is the level of desperation that will likely happen in the coming decades when most men just decide that sex isn't worth it at all anymore and there are many easier and safer and far less expensive alternatives. Women have 100% power in any relationship, and that's written in stone once the marriage contracts are signed with the government. No thank you. I decline.

Quote:

4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)? -Six


Quote:

What about "IN ADDITION TO"?


I did. Hence the "also" you missed.

Quote:

I've already conceded that I think women need to take more responsibility for their behavior and for the outcomes in their lives. Remaining a silent victim for years and years; or getting drunk in compromising situations; or not saying "no" when you mean "no"; is irresponsible. On the other hand, putting all of the onus on the presumed victim, and none on the aggressor, is kind of bass-ackwards, don't you think?


I can't think of a single instance in my life, as a white male, that anybody ever gave me the benefit of the doubt or made excuses for my stupidity. I'm essentially a libertarian in all other aspects of my life and I don't see why I should make any changes to that for this topic. Personal responsibility is paramount. Nobody gets a do-over.

When you're doing the right thing, you're prepared for anything that happens and you have good situational awareness and somebody STILL goes out of their way and manages to hurt you, that's a different scenario altogether.

Quote:

It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle. -Six


Quote:

It seems to me that focusing on the behavior of the smaller percentage of perps - from a criminal angle - is more effective than focusing on the behavior of the much larger percentage of potential victims from an education angle. But by all means, do both. -Sigs


Yep. That's what I said.

Problem is they only go after males.

Quote:

Still, I think you're missing a much larger picture. Both men and women do things that they don't necessarily want to do ... like having to defend yourself physically against a much larger opponent or accepting violent "hazing" rituals or conceding to have sex when you don't want to ... because it's EXPECTED of them. That's pretty dysfunctional messaging. Where are those messages coming from and how can we stop them?

I think a lot of social dysfunction comes from bad "messaging"; we really should examine social expectations and maybe work on changing some of them.



I don't know where they're coming from. I don't put them off myself. I've been stabbed and beaten within an inch of my life with no insurance or safety net before.

Life sucks sometimes. What are you gonna do?

The only way to "fix" this is to homogenize thinking entirely and strip people of their free will and individuality. I'm sure with time, they'll have a drug for that. I hope I'm dead and gone before that day comes. In the mean time, protect yourself, don't to anything too reckless, and be willing to own up to the consequences if you do so and get burned.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


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Friday, November 17, 2017 4:34 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
are you quoting wiki to avoid honest discussion and just dance around inconveniently truthful definitions?

I don't see mention of urinating in public, or the complainant (victim) touching via body part OR Object intimate parts of the defendant. Both defined as Sexual Assault, although different States have different statutes.

And still dancing, kissing, hugging, massage, fully clothed is Sexual Assault, even consensual if the "victim" is the wrong age.

In what cases are Sexual Assaults charged or prosecuted by the United States Department of Justice, instead of the Local or State Prosecutor? Otherwise the DoJ definition has no meaning or application - only the Local laws actually enforced.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

You keep trying to intermix the terms Rape and Sexual Assault, as if they are the same. As if you're trying to avoid honest discussion.
And Assault does not involve touching. Assault is a threat of Battery, Battery is the touching part. Sexual Assault has been defined to include touching or contact, but continues to not require it.

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