REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The risk of nuclear war under Trump

POSTED BY: CAPTAINCRUNCH
UPDATED: Sunday, February 18, 2018 13:27
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4384
PAGE 3 of 3

Monday, February 12, 2018 3:45 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The propaganda exits, in large amounts, I might add. I can show it, and you know it's true.

The government wouldn't bother if it didn't think it was necessary - to give us subjects the required push in attitude.



For one thing. You being Russian disqualifies you from determining what is propaganda and what is not. All you get from Russian media is propaganda and you believe it. That shows you are clueless.


T

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 12, 2018 4:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


SECOND

I agree about this: Americans don't care if a Shiite government kills its Sunni citizens - or the other way around. They don't care if Russia has a free press. They don't care if non-ethnic Russians kill ethnic Russians in Ukraine. They don't care about starving children in Somalia. They don't care about cartels run amok in Mexico. They don't care who kills, or who dies, or how, if it's over there. They. Don't. Care.

They care if AMERICANS die.

So, the question becomes - how do you convince Americans to willingly fight elsewhere?

That's how you end up with the Lusitania. the Gulf of Tonkin, maybe even Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 being used to attack Iraq. That's how you end up with massive campaigns to mobilize the public to go to war, support war and censorship, and pay for it all. That's why you endlessly propagandize that Russians are 'doing things' to us.

To get Americans to fight over there, somewhere, the government needs to deploy its campaigns of attitude adjustment.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
SECOND

I agree about this: Americans don't care if a Shiite government kills its Sunni citizens - or the other way around. They don't care if Russia has a free press. They don't care if non-ethnic Russians kill ethnic Russians in Ukraine. They don't care about starving children in Somalia. They don't care about cartels run amok in Mexico. They don't care who kills, or who dies, or how, if it's over there. They. Don't. Care.

They care if AMERICANS die.

So, the question becomes - how do you convince Americans to willingly fight elsewhere?

That's how you end up with the Lusitania. the Gulf of Tonkin, maybe even Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 being used to attack Iraq. That's how you end up with massive campaigns to mobilize the public to go to war, support war and censorship, and pay for it all. That's why you endlessly propagandize that Russians are 'doing things' to us.

To get Americans to fight over there, somewhere, the government needs to deploy its campaigns of attitude adjustment.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?
1kiki, you are pretty cynical about Americans, but you'd be far more if you lived in my state, Texas. Texans have an astonishingly high opinion of themselves, call them self-righteous, but the numbers don't actually support their lofty opinion. Two numbers would help clarify why Americans are so proud, but also why they don't have a correct image of themselves.

What is the most defended country in the world, based on spending? The most charitable?

Military expenditure as percent of GDP was 3.3%. It was 8.4% in 1960. And how much for Charitable spending? 1.44%

Looking at the numbers, it appears to me that Americans less want to help than to kill foreigners. To fix that, I think charitable spending should be quintupled. The helping budget ought to be at least twice as big as the killing budget.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=US

America has been named as the world’s most generous nation in the world, where its citizens give the most to charity. Placing America at #1, charitable giving by individuals as a percentage of GDP in America was recorded at 1.44%, in New Zealand at 0.79%, in Canada at .77% and in the UK – which came fourth globally – at 0.54%.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-new-zealand-and-cana
da-top-list-of-world-s-most-generous-nations-a6849221.html


The rule ought to be: for every dollar spent on nukes and bullets, spend at least two dollars on overseas charity. Americans need to mightily shift the balance of spending.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 11:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, been busy, but here goes ...
Quote:

Signym. If Americans do NOT know today how nukes burn children to death, can that be blamed on the MSM, as you are trying to do? Is the media really misleading Americans into believing nukes do NOT kill women, as Signym is insinuating? Or will the majority of Americans never know? I think the majority of Americans don't want to know because knowing would mean not nuking whoever the President feels deserving.
So, where does this slavish devotion to the US President come from? Is it inborn (as you imply later)? Genetic? Are Americans uniquely vulnerable to hive-mind behavior? Or is this the result of never-ending Hollywood romanticization. of series like "24" in which a rough, tough Jack Bauer - who has faced down nuclear terrorism and survived relentless Chinese torture- wets his pants and drops to his knees in abject devotion when "THE PRESIDENT!!" comes into view? SERIOUSLY??? Yes, I know that most people who watch the show realize that it is a fantasy, but like most advertising, it plants a background message, even as the viewer is rejecting the foreground message.

So, BTW, that answers my first question - Does it matter what most Americans "want"? After all, if we live in a oligarchy when most people don't get what they want anyway, what does it matter how most people feel?

Well, the answer is ... obviously it DOES matter, otherwise there wouldn't be such a relentless propaganda campaign to tell us who we are, what we want, and what we should be afraid of. I rally think you should (re)watch Century of Self




Quote:

I'm thinking a majority of Americans in 1945 wanted all the Japs, including women and children, dead dead dead and a victory wasn't enough to cool the overheated Americans. Even until today, victory on the battlefield isn't enough. A majority of Americans also want women and children dead dead dead. This is a very helpful attitude for a Pentagon and Congress who both want nukes for their President.


First of all, there is a fairly large minority of Americans who - even in the midst of a media blitz to war - DON'T want yet another war. Instead of wondering why so many Americans favor what they have been TOLD to favor by the government, "news" media, and Hollywood, maybe you should look at the outliers and wonder how THEY escaped the clutches of the war machine?

Quote:

Since at least WWII, the majority of the American public would easily accept Washington DC killing everyone (old men, women, children) connected to any kind of enemy. Those Americans were born that way; they didn't need any propaganda from Washington DC.
Your statement is that not only are AMERICANS blood-lusting creatures, by virtue of being born human SO IS EVERYBODY ELSE. ("born that way")

In the realm of science, there is no way to prove a hypothesis, but you can DSIprove one by finding examples where it fails. Well, SECOND, there are examples all over the world and in the USA where your view of people fails, because they insist in behaving in a countervailing manner to what you think.

Since people are motivated by how they feel, not what they think, it's very important that people's FEELINGS on certain topics be manipulated. And that is most easily accomplished by fear (godless Communism! Dominoes falling! Duck and cover! WMD!). I'm sure that you've noticed that many people were stampeded into supporting various invasions by totally unfounded scenarios.

I think this is particularly successful with Americans, because most people DON'T do their best thinking when under stress, and Americans are more stressed than any other major industrial economy thanks to our economic uncertainty and crime.

Look at WISHY: I believe that she's reacting the way she does because of being victimized in the past. And then look at most Americans, and realize ... we're victimized in one way or another on a daily basis. I think many Americans are traumatized and isolated by life here in the good ole USA. FURTHERMORE, thanks to our relentless stream of advertising, Hollywood-isms, and propaganda, we're constantly told that our individual happiness is the most important goal of our lives, that it is within our grasp if we only want it enough, and that if we're worried or upset that it is entirely our own fault. All of this messaging leaves us individually and socially unable to cope with all of the shit that life (and the elite) deals out to us: the scope of our thinking is narrowed; we are less open to options; we feel blameworthy and thus unable to identify the REAL source of our woes; and we feel isolated and helpless.

EXAMPLE: There was an interesting interview by Terri Gross on NPR yesterday that had to do with the Prosperity Gospel. That is the Xtian belief that you will be rich and healthy if you only believe in God the right way, which is very in-tune with the pro-"capitalist" mania sold on our TVs that you will be rich and happy if you can only work the "capitalist" system properly. Anyway, the interviewee ... who had experience with both that and Mennonites ... said that Mennonites were refreshingly pessimistic about life. They assumed that life would deal out hardship, and that the answer was to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in community to face it. Two very different stories that people tell themselves and each other about life and about people.


But this is one of those unfair aspects of life: People who are upset and stressed by problems are often the least able to address with them; downward spirals are a very real possibility when people are isolated from support.

And then, in addition to being able to push the "fear" button effectively, the government and the media play a very large role in sheltering us from the brutality of our own actions. Like I said, it's one thing to "know" something, it's another thing to "feel" it. The emotional connection was made for ME when I saw "Hearts and Minds" documentary... Vietnam War footage that never made it to the nightly news. But even with the news censorship on Vietnam, enough of the blood and gore made it in the nightly news; and that - along with the draft- really propelled a lot of anti-war sentiment.

After Vietnam, the military made it a practice to either "embed" journalists in with the troops ... the LAST thing the military wanted was random journalists roaming the countryside, filming things that the military didn't want anyone to see.. or exclude them entirely. For example, there was no coverage of our invasions of Panama and Grenada.

But in the first Gulf War, the footage that was played over and over ... and over and over... on our TV screens was the "smart bomb", giving the viewers the impression that the military effort was "surgical" ... a low collateral-damage approach, a "polite" invasion (if you will) ... when over 90% of the bombs dropped were "dumb iron".

So people are shielded from the real impact of our war efforts, and unless someone has already been there and seen it first-hand the blood and the terror and the anger is muted to a far, far distant storm. It's like the difference between standing in a open field while rain and hail pour down, the winds are whipping you, lightning is striking all around ... versus the far-distant rumble of thunder.

Someone named RUE once said that societies aren't determined by their economic bases but by the stories they tell themselves ABOUT themselves: Who they are, what their society is (or in our case, isn't), what people want, how they're supposed to react to other societies. I kind of dismissed it at the time as a form of subjectivism, but as time goes on and I see how tightly and how relentlessly those messages are controlled and reiterated - over and over and over - by TPTB, the more I realize that the stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves (or are told to us) are very important.

I know this is a very long post, but all this to say that the American reaction is MADE, NOT BORN, and that it is constantly drilled into us and reinforced by pathways that at first seem sideways and irrelevant (religion; "news"; consumer advertising; movies, TV shows, and video games) but make up the "whole" of our understanding. It's not until someone experiences first-hand actual events (and sometimes not even then) that they reach an emotional and then intellectual awakening.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:55 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, where does this slavish devotion to the US President come from? Is it inborn (as you imply later)? Genetic? Are Americans uniquely vulnerable to hive-mind behavior? Or is this the result of never-ending Hollywood romanticization. of series like "24" in which a rough, tough Jack Bauer - who has faced down nuclear terrorism and survived relentless Chinese torture- wets his pants and drops to his knees in abject devotion when "THE PRESIDENT!!" comes into view?

You gave a really long answer. My short answer is that Americans are the most ostentatiously religious in the world. They really crave a power greater than themselves, even the ones not religious, to throw the responsibility for what happens onto God or the President, which leaves them with more time for their smaller pursuits, whether it is their place in heaven, their money, or their next pleasure. It is God's and the President's decision on who dies, who to nuke, not the decision of small, irresponsible Americans busy with their daily lives.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 12:57 PM

THGRRI


Bill Gates' dire warning: U.S. could lose its global leadership role under Trump

Tech pioneer Bill Gates thinks the U.S. can keep its historically influential role as a global leader.

But for a second year in a row, he cautioned that the nation risks losing its geopolitical clout if the Trump administration succeeds in slashing foreign aid, as proposed Monday in a new federal budget that prioritizes a jump in military spending. Last year, the White House tried to reduce foreign aid by one-third, but Congress did not approve the cuts.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/02/13/bill-gates-warns-china-
other-powers-fill-void-if-u-s-foreign-aid-cuts-could-cede-leadership-china-ot/322177002
/



T

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:00 PM

THGRRI


SECOND, your and sigs attempt to pigeon hole Americans is week tea. We are more than 310 million strong, come from all the different continents and are as ethnically diverse as can be. Yet you speak of us as if we are all made from the same cloth. Like I said, weak tea.

Time to watch an episode of firefly I think.
T


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, where does this slavish devotion to the US President come from? Is it inborn (as you imply later)? Genetic? Are Americans uniquely vulnerable to hive-mind behavior? Or is this the result of never-ending Hollywood romanticization. of series like "24" in which a rough, tough Jack Bauer - who has faced down nuclear terrorism and survived relentless Chinese torture- wets his pants and drops to his knees in abject devotion when "THE PRESIDENT!!" comes into view?

You gave a really long answer. My short answer is that Americans are the most ostentatiously religious in the world. They really crave a power greater than themselves, even the ones not religious, to throw the responsibility for what happens onto God or the President, which leaves them with more time for their smaller pursuits, whether it is a quest for a place in heaven, more money, or the next pleasure. It is God's and the President's decision on who dies, who to nuke, not the decision of small, irresponsible Americans busy with their daily lives.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You gave a really long answer. My short answer is that Americans are the most ostentatiously religious in the world. They really crave a power greater than themselves, even the ones not religious, to throw the responsibility for what happens onto God or the President, which leaves them with more time for their smaller pursuits, whether it is a quest for a place in heaven, more money, or the next pleasure. It is God's and the President's decision on who dies, who to nuke, not the decision of small, irresponsible Americans busy with their daily lives. - SECOND
Yes, but where does this reaction COME FROM?

I'm like you, SECOND; there are times when I look at people like THUGR and I just run out of excuses for him. But the reason why so many Americans engage in magical thinking is because we have been sheltered by two big oceans from all of the suffering that we (and others) have inflicted on the world Because America has been the dominant military and economic power since WWII, THIS is where the heart of power beats, THIS is the population that the elite need to control because THIS is the military that controls the world and ensures their wealth. So the Eye of Sauron is upon us, like no place else on earth - and - so far- the elite's reign of power has only had a slow grinding away on our quality of life. Oh, and BTW ... the worse things get here, the more magical thinking will be pushed on Americans so we don't react with any normal kind of self-preservation.

And for some reason, the DEMOCRATS have not explicitly tied our debt load, diminishing social safety net, and withered economy to our military expenditures/ adventurism recently. And why not??? Because THEY are as in thrall to the elites as the Republicans.

From my POV, SECOND, you're as guilty of religious-thinking as the people you disdain. YOUR religion isn't god tho, and it isn't militarism; it's partisanship. YOUR magical thinking revolves around the Democratic Party. You focus all of your ire on THE GOP!! TEXAS REPUBLICANS! TRUMP!!! ... with an occasional (and misdirected) shout-out to RUSSIA!! as if they are the source of all of our problems and if we only got rid of "them" all would be well! And we BOTH know that that isn't true.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:22 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
SECOND, your and sigs attempt to pigeon hole Americans is week tea. We are more than 310 million strong, come from all the different continents and are as ethnically diverse as can be. Yet you speak of us as if we are all made from the same cloth. Like I said, weak tea.

Time to watch an episode of firefly I think.

I'm not doing an explanation for every last American. I only need to explain the largest group. It isn't even the majority, but their numbers are large enough to push the whole U.S.A. in the direction it is going.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:24 PM

THGRRI

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

From my POV, SECOND, you're as guilty of religious-thinking as the people you disdain. YOUR religion isn't god tho, and it isn't militarism; it's partisanship. YOUR magical thinking revolves around the Democratic Party. You focus all of your ire on THE GOP!! TEXAS REPUBLICANS! TRUMP!!! ... with an occasional (and misdirected) shout-out to RUSSIA!! as if they are the source of all of our problems and if we only got rid of "them" all would be well! And we BOTH know that that isn't true.

From my POV, American government kills foreigners because Americans are who they are. You might want to claim they have been sheltered from the consequences of drone killings and firebombings in WWII, but I know it is not sheltering; Americans actively don't want to know. It would force them to change, and why would they want to do that when they are so busy with being entertained? The governments we get at all levels are exactly what you'd expect from politicians much like other Americans with small, selfish minds who dislike every other American who is dissimilar to them. Woe to the foreigner who is very unlike the politician. The foreigner will be nuked.

I would expect Obama to be less likely to nuke a foreigner. He was aware of being considered not an American. To Trump, Obama is a foreigner and I clearly remember what Trump and Texas Republicans said about Obama being no American citizen they would recognize.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:40 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
SECOND, your and sigs attempt to pigeon hole Americans is week tea. We are more than 310 million strong, come from all the different continents and are as ethnically diverse as can be. Yet you speak of us as if we are all made from the same cloth. Like I said, weak tea.

Time to watch an episode of firefly I think.

I'm not doing an explanation for every last American. I only need to explain the largest group. It isn't even the majority, but their numbers are large enough to push the whole U.S.A. in the direction it is going.



I'm a white male. In all my years I have been amazed at all the different opinions we have about this and that. Sorry, weak tea.


T

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:50 PM

THGRRI


Stereotypes, prejudice, and discrimination are understood as related but different concepts. Stereotypes are regarded as the most cognitive component and often occurs without conscious awareness, whereas prejudice is the affective component of stereotyping and discrimination is one of the behavioral components of prejudicial reactions. In this tripartite view of intergroup attitudes, stereotypes reflect expectations and beliefs about the characteristics of members of groups perceived as different from one's own, prejudice represents the emotional response, and discrimination refers to actions.


T

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 1:57 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I'm a white male. In all my years I have been amazed at all the different opinions we have about this and that. Sorry, weak tea.

I remember 9/11. Nearly all Texas Republicans wanted revenge. It was as if they could not understand that all the hijackers were dead. The Texans wanted to murder them, even if there were none left. Killing Osama bin Laden did not justify what the US has done in Afghanistan, Iraq, Africa, elsewhere. At least Bush didn't drop a nuke just to make the Texas GOP happy. This nasty attitude of a certain class of Texans is why the US has a ten times too large nuclear arsenal. And Trump has promised to make it ten times larger than it is now. Trump can say such things because enough Americans agree with him.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969772/Trump-generals-grow-U-S-nucle
ar-arsenal-TEN.html

www.nbcnews.com/news/all/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsena
l-meeting-military-leaders-n809701

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 4:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

From my POV, American government kills foreigners because Americans are who they are. You might want to claim they have been sheltered from the consequences of drone killings and firebombings in WWII, but I know it is not sheltering; Americans actively don't want to know. It would force them to change, and why would they want to do that when they are so busy with being entertained?
True. But.

I have to write another long explanation because I don't know exactly how to say what I'm trying to express: Humans are like squishy computers with multiple inputs. People make decisions based on those inputs, many that they're not even aware exist. So for example, I'm sitting at the PC, typing. I'm a little bit frustrated by the discussion, sort of cold, kinda hungry, I need to pee somewhat ... but it's not until my nose itches that I actually get up to pee. It was that last little irritant that "motivated" me (caused me to move).

People are usually motivated by what they FEEL. The reason why people haven't changed is because the situation kinda worked for them: There was a minimum of negative consequence; a minimum of effort; rewards were sort of maximized for the effort involved; there was a LOT of input telling them not to think (ads), what was real (news) and how to feel (opinion); and besides - nobody wants to change their ideas anyway!

People from other countries tell me that the propaganda here is relentless. Again, given that THIS is the military that ensures the elites' wealth, THIS is where the elite exert their strongest effort. So given that people are people, and that people here are being snowed from the day of their birth and steeped in magical thinking, I guess this is what about I'd expect.

Quote:

The governments we get at all levels are exactly what you'd expect from politicians much like other Americans with small, selfish minds who dislike every other American who is dissimilar to them. Woe to the foreigner who is very unlike the politician. The foreigner will be nuked.
Woe to anyone who has a different opinion, foreigner or not.

Quote:

I would expect Obama to be less likely to nuke a foreigner. He was aware of being considered not an American. To Trump, Obama is a foreigner and I clearly remember what Trump and Texas Republicans said about Obama being no American citizen they would recognize.
that's what I thought (past tense) about Obama too: not because he was half-black, but because he was raised in another country. But I have to say, he was a big disappointment; I thought he would stand up to the deep state at least somewhat, but he didn't seem to be at all concerned about the death toll racked up on his watch. The only thing that he seemed to be worried about was that the deep states' foreign policy goals be accomplished QUIETLY, with a minimum of American military losses. Which is why he relied so much on drone strikes, proxies, contractors, CIA, and exploiting internal divisions within the target nation. But even without the military at least a half-million people were killed thanks to his policies.

To get back to Americans and what they (we) think: I don't know if Americans will change in time to avoid catastrophe, and not necessarily nuclear Armageddon. Our economy, currency, budget, society, and foreign policy are all fucked up; and any of them can go catastrophically sideways in a hurry. Unfortunately, even a crisis doesn't cause people to stop and think - in fact, that's when people can be stampeded most effectively into doing something terminally stupid.

Sigh. So I'm not sure I see an exit sign on this path to the cliff's edge that we seem to be on. Wish I had a more hopeful post!



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 13, 2018 6:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Trump can say such things because enough Americans agree with him."

Once we elect a president, Americans have not one normal political tool to hold him/ her to campaign promises. Trump can say what he wants, irregardless of whether or not any Americans at all agree with him.



eta: to expand a little bit on the idea - if this was a parliamentary system we could vote Trump out at any time during his term on a vote of 'no confidence'. It would keep the system somewhat more honest.

As it is, it's a system running without negative feedback controls. And this system creates a dysfunctional dynamic that degrades both the political process, and the people participating in it.

By experience, people have become very cynical, disenfranchised, and mentally lazy, about their presidential votes. Maybe they haven't linked it up to the political system we have now, but they know that presidential campaigns are nothing more than hot air, empty promises, and circus sideshows. They trusted in 'hope and change', and were bitterly disappointed by what didn't happen. (And if republicans had run anyone with a credible message of change, they would have won.) They trusted Trump to not be more of the same.

But when that doesn't work out, the only option they - we - have is to roll the dice again.

I guess 'The Framers'



wanted democracy, but not too much of it.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:11 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Perhaps the US would not need thousands of nukes if it had not nuked two cities. Perhaps if President Truman had kept the secret weapon still a secret then today the US would only have an arsenal of hundreds of nukes, the size of France’s arsenal. But President Truman felt he had to kill two cities,

Months after the war was over, Truman made the entire world aware that he had an assembly line building even more nukes. He would have kept nuking until the Emperor surrendered. There were 72 million Japanese civilians and Truman would kill them all with nukes.

In the minds of Americans, the US needs thousands of bombs because the world might someday take its revenge for what the US had done and for what it would do if the Japs did not surrender. Jumping forward to Trump, he is playing into Americans’ fear of revenge. Most Americans can be trivially persuaded that they need ten times more nukes. It is all psychological because there is no military need to increase the arsenal to 70,000 when 7,000 is enough to kill the entire world several times. It is all about fearful Americans. It’s not about real dangers. And Trump is playing on their fears.

In the Home of the Brave, the Land of the Free, most Americans are chickens, not Braves. Trump knows this. He knows Americans will pay hundreds of billions ( no, make that trillions ) to calm their fears. But it makes the rest of the world more fearful of a physical danger, not just a psychological fear of revenge.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969772/Trump-generals-grow-U-S-nucle
ar-arsenal-TEN.html

www.nbcnews.com/news/all/trump-wanted-dramatic-increase-nuclear-arsena
l-meeting-military-leaders-n809701

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Hmmmmmmm.....

I've been against every war we've been involved in since I was old enough to vote. Guess that means I'm not Republican too.

Well... it doesn't make me Democrat either since every war that Obama continued and started is just A-Okay with them.

I love your anti-American quote about the home of the chickens, Second. That doesn't look to be a part of either of your articles. I'm assuming you came up with that one all by yourself then?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:51 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


You are partially right. The Constitution makes Washington less responsive than, say, one of the better designed Parliamentary systems. But the big flaw is Americans. Their memories don't extend very far into the past. The proof is a very simple minded prediction scheme that has failed once (Trump. The professor assumed the Republican candidate, whoever it would eventually be, would have zero charisma. But Trump is full of charisma. If the professor had not assumed a zero charisma candidate, the model would have given the correct answer.) The simple model accounts for the outcome of every American presidential election since 1860, much longer than any other prediction system. Prospectively, the Keys to the White House has correctly forecast the popular vote winner of all seven presidential elections from 1984 to 2012, usually months or even years prior to Election Day.
https://pollyvote.com/en/components/index-models/keys-to-the-white-hou
se
/
https://qz.com/1129587
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

eta: to expand a little bit on the idea - if this was a parliamentary system we could vote Trump out at any time during his term on a vote of 'no confidence'. It would keep the system somewhat more honest.

As it is, it's a system running without negative feedback controls. And this system creates a dysfunctional dynamic that degrades both the political process, and the people participating in it.

By experience, people have become very cynical, disenfranchised, and mentally lazy, about their presidential votes. Maybe they haven't linked it up to the political system we have now, but they know that presidential campaigns are nothing more than hot air, empty promises, and circus sideshows. They trusted in 'hope and change', and were bitterly disappointed by what didn't happen. (And if republicans had run anyone with a credible message of change, they would have won.) They trusted Trump to not be more of the same.

But when that doesn't work out, the only option they - we - have is to roll the dice again.

I guess 'The Framers' wanted democracy, but not too much of it.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hmmmmmmm.....

I love your anti-American quote about the home of the chickens, Second. That doesn't look to be a part of either of your articles. I'm assuming you came up with that one all by yourself then?

That is direct experience. Why do you think the 1% can bully the other 99%? It certainly is not because the 1% are belligerent. It is because the 99% won't fight back. Instead, they get drunk, or wished they had a nuke to drop on their enemy, or voted in a secret ballot for a champion (Trump as the example) who will fight for them. None of those methods are as reliable as getting yourself into the fight for what you want. And I do mean fight, not wish and not passively hope. That is for chickens.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Regale us with all of the tales of the great fights you've gotten to in your lifetime as one of the (lol) 1%'ers. You're a clown.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:31 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Regale us with all of the tales of the great fights you've gotten to in your lifetime as one of the (lol) 1%'ers. You're a clown.

I can see the soil from which your failures grow so very tall, 6ixStringJack. You are belligerent for no purpose. And you don't learn the lessons taught. You have got the personality and brains of a chicken. But how about this story involving Trump's election? Chicken hearts and heads of most Americans make it easy to predict what they will do, whether it is wanting more nukes or Trump for President. They ain't as smart or brave as they think.

Old prediction for December 2015: a Professor predicted that the Democrats would win in 2016: What the “13 Keys to the White House” Say and Why Foreign Policy Will Decide the Next President. The professor did not factor in that the GOP Candidate would not be a zero charisma Bush. Instead, it was Trump and his truck-load of charisma and crazy.
https://pollyvote.com/en/components/index-models/keys-to-the-white-hou
se
/

When the simple math was redone, using Trump as the GOP candidate rather than bland Bush, the chicken headed Americans did exactly what was expected:

New prediction for September 2016 Trump is headed for a win, says professor who has predicted 30 years of presidential outcomes correctly.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/23/trump-is-headed-for-
a-win-says-professor-whos-predicted-30-years-of-presidential-outcomes-correctly/?postshare=2541474654865044&utm_term=.3d6a4f0af6d4


The professor had serious doubts that his simplistic model was correct about predicting Trump wins. The model assumes that Americans are fucking stupid chickens, but the Professor had placed his faith in Americans being smart. The model does not believe in Americans' brilliance. Here is the Professor listing some drawbacks to Trump winning predicted Sept, 2016:
Quote:

Donald Trump has made this the most difficult election to assess since 1984. We have never before seen a candidate like Donald Trump, and Donald Trump may well break patterns of history that have held since 1860.

We've never before seen a candidate who's spent his life enriching himself at the expense of others. He's the first candidate in our history to be a serial fabricator, making up things as he goes along. Even when he tells the truth, such as, "Barack Obama really was born in the U.S.," he adds two lines, that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement, and that he finished it, even though when Barack Obama put out his birth certificate, he didn't believe it. We've never had a candidate before who not just once, but twice in a thinly disguised way, has incited violence against an opponent. We've never had a candidate before who's invited a hostile foreign power to meddle in American elections. We've never had a candidate before who's threatened to start a war by blowing ships out of the water in the Persian Gulf if they come too close to us. We've never had a candidate before who has embraced as a role model a murderous, hostile foreign dictator. Given all of these exceptions that Donald Trump represents, he may well shatter patterns of history that have held for more than 150 years, lose this election even if the historical circumstances favor it.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:07 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol... and your complete inability to talk to people is a huge indicator that you are not who you say you are. You'd run the company into the ground before it ever took off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
In the minds of Americans, the US needs thousands of bombs because the world might someday take its revenge for what the US had done and for what it would do if the Japs did not surrender.

What makes you assume you know what 'Americans' want, SECOND?

Here's the most recent result I could find about the US nuclear arsenal:

Quote:

Press Office

Poll Results: Nuclear Weapons
by Peter Moore
in HuffingtonPost, Politics & current affairs
on August 11, 2016, 7:07 a.m.

These are the topline results of a YouGov/Huffington Post survey of 1000 US adults interviewed August 4-7, 2016 on nuclear weapons. The margin of error is 4.8%.
Click here to see full tables and demographic crossbreaks

Do you approve or disapprove of cutting the number of nuclear weapons the United States has?
Strongly approve . . . . . . . ..22%
Somewhat approve . . . . . . . ..23%
Somewhat disapprove . . . . . . .23%
Strongly disapprove . . . . . . .17%
Not sure . . . . . . . . . . . ..16%

Which comes closest to your view?
The US should never use nuclear weapons under any circumstances
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17%
The US should only use nuclear weapons in response to a nuclear attack
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50%
In certain circumstances, the US should use nuclear weapons even if it has not suffered a nuclear attack . . . . . . . . .18%
Not sure . . . . . . . . . . . . .16%

If Hillary Clinton were elected president, would you trust her or not trust her to make the right decisions about the use of nuclear weapons?
Trust her . . . . . . . . . . . . .38%
Not trust her . . . . . . . . . . .46%
Not sure . . . . . . . . . . . . ..16%

If Donald Trump were elected president, would you trust him or not trust him to make the right decisions about the use of nuclear weapons?
Trust him . . . . . . . . . . . . ..27%
Not trust him . . . . . . . . . . ..57%
Not sure . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16%

DESPITE propaganda to the contrary, I don't find a bloodthirsty pronuke population - do you?
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You are partially right. The Constitution makes Washington less responsive than, say, one of the better designed Parliamentary systems. But the big flaw is Americans. Their memories don't extend very far into the past.

As I pointed out earlier - and which you failed to understand at all - the system has the unfortunate effect of training Americans to comprehend THEIR VOTE HARDLY MATTERS. Which is regrettably true. You can't fool all of the people all of the time. But under a different system - one where the active participation of the voters is meaningful - Americans would perform better.







HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol... and your complete inability to talk to people is a huge indicator that you are not who you say you are. You'd run the company into the ground before it ever took off.

There is no conversation going on here, 6ix. I've said you are a fucking idiot, over and over, and you never understood. What kind of obvious messages are living, breathing people in Indiana saying to your face that you aren't understanding? That would probably be where your failures in life come from. Start paying attention and life will turn upward for you. You will stop being a fucking chicken-headed idiot.

With 1kiki and Signym, I don't believe they are who they pretend to be: American citizens. If they are Russian trolls or spambots, they are doing their jobs well and nobly serving their country. Congratulations to them both! But if they actually live in America, they've both had a very odd upbringing. Still I can say Congratulations to them both for writing well and from their hearts. Can't say the same about 6ixStringJack. You're an idiot.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Why do you think the 1% can bully the other 99%? It certainly is not because the 1% are belligerent. It is because the 99% won't fight back."

There used to be the notion that for people to revolt, they had to have nothing left to lose. Where losing their life was, at that point, meaningless. And that's true. People with meager lives can't afford risk what little they have on something that may, or may not, work out. Because if it doesn't work out, what do they have left to support their lives? It's only when they get to the point where revolution makes sense do they participate.

But it's good to see the real, disdainful, SECOND come out of the shadows.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"But if they actually live in America, they've both had a very odd upbringing."

As a 1%er, and a Texan, you're hardly in a position to claim someone's upbringing is 'odd'. And you need to get out of the house more, and rub elbows with 99% people from all over the country.

I can speak for myself, SECOND. I am American. I live in America. Both my parents were brilliant people, doing their best with what life dished out to them. In terms of raising me, they believed in the power of reading, of thought, and of understanding. And that makes me different from most of my fellow Americans, because Americans are taught to revere ignorance as if it was innocence ... but being different doesn't make me un-American.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 3:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


My life is doing just fine, sunshine. I'm the only person on this board that's done anything to improve their lot in life in the last year. You're just a static character saying the same bullshit every single day. Sad little man lying about what he wishes he had but will never obtain from the depths of his Republican Texas Mom's basement.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


fwiw I don't believe SECOND lives in his mom's basement, though I do believe he's trapped in isolation, anger, and bitterness due to personal history.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:35 PM

OONJERAH


1Kiki: "because Americans are taught to revere ignorance as if it was innocence ... "

Not exactly. Americans are taught to lie around in front of the Boob Tube
& ingest silliness as a relief from the daily grind. To believe whoever is
currently the most popular.

I myself, my Boob Tube out in storage, find other distractions to avoid reality.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I was thinking of the myth of the uneducated, plain-spoken American. The one who is too uneducated to speak anything but common sense and unvarnished truth. Even if that common sense turns out to be nonsense, and that truth mere 'truthiness'. Bush Jr. and Reagan had that going.

When Americans want to think well of themselves, they want to see what they think is their reflection in those people, instead of educated nuance.

But I get your point about distraction from the daily grind. It's not as if we can tell ourselves we're working for a better life or a better world. We know that we're just going to get through today to have another helping of the same tomorrow, if we're lucky.




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Why do you think the 1% can bully the other 99%? It certainly is not because the 1% are belligerent.
You're kidding, right? I once heard a story from an (illegal Guatemalan) housekeeper who told me about a time, during a great agitation for labor rights, of a union meeting that was called at their village church. All in all, about 400 villagers showed up. And then a Gutemalan right-wing death squad gunned them all down.

What have we been posting about all along? The belligerance of the elite's army, right? And as for our internal policies ... did you know that we have the highest incarceration rate in the world?

Quote:

With 1kiki and Signym, I don't believe they are who they pretend to be: American citizens. If they are Russian trolls or spambots, they are doing their jobs well and nobly serving their country. Congratulations to them both! But if they actually live in America, they've both had a very odd upbringing. Still I can say Congratulations to them both for writing well and from their hearts.
I have to agree with KIKI- you should get out more. Are you so fixated on Americans being purposefully stupid and chicken that when some show up who aren't, you can;t imagine that they're American?

This guy, he's American:



So is this guy



And this guy ...



But, aside from THEM, there is ..... YOU. YOU seem to be decrying the same things that they are: the rape of the world by the elite. Aren't you American? And then there is ME: You and I seem to be saying the same thing. So why are fighting me? Are you one of those people who can't take "yes" for an answer?

Well, in any case, your thinking stops at ordinary Americans. But you seem to forget that ordinary Americans aren't really driving this bus. Ordinary Americans aren't deciding what to put on the news, what to show on TV, what religion to preach, the amount and content of advertising. If you're going to blame somebody for the shape the world is in, why don't you go one step farther and at least share some of the blame with the people who are in charge: the sociopathic elite?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:43 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: Ordinary Americans aren't deciding what to put on the news, what to show on TV, what religion to preach, the amount and content of advertising.


Actually, in fact, they do. Maybe your *world view* such as it is, would be better informed if you didn't take cues from illegal Guatemalan house keepers?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Actually, in fact, they do. Maybe your *world view* such as it is, would be better informed if you didn't take cues from illegal Guatemalan house keepers?
UNLIKE YOU (the deliberately uninformed GSTRING) I make it a POINT to talk to people from other nations: The Syrian Xtian programmer-intern; the Tunisian who sells condiments at the farmer's market, the professor's housekeeper. They tell me things you would never read in our MSM.

If there wasn't actual EVIDENCE to back up USA support/ complicity in Central/ South American death squads, I'd have put her statement in the vast "interesting if true" warehouse, but the reality is that there is far too much supporting evidence to dismiss her story out-or-hand, as you seem anxious to do.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


He's much more comfortable with the narrative that Trump and Pence have blood on their hands because of the shooting yesterday.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:18 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: Ordinary Americans aren't deciding what to put on the news, what to show on TV, what religion to preach, the amount and content of advertising.


Actually, in fact, they do. Maybe your *world view* such as it is, would be better informed if you didn't take cues from illegal Guatemalan house keepers?



Funny, add to that you can't believe sig didn't just make up what she posted. Lying is what she does most.


T

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, February 16, 2018 10:02 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Actually, in fact, they do. Maybe your *world view* such as it is, would be better informed if you didn't take cues from illegal Guatemalan house keepers?
UNLIKE YOU (the deliberately uninformed GSTRING) I make it a POINT to talk to people from other nations: The Syrian Xtian programmer-intern; the Tunisian who sells condiments at the farmer's market, the professor's housekeeper. They tell me things you would never read in our MSM.



Wow! Mark the calendar, SIGNYM cracked it! Immigrants tell us unique things not heard in the MSM!
Remember that story I related about the Ukrainian Uber driver? No? There's more - you aren't the only person who knows other people. Gah.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If there wasn't actual EVIDENCE to back up USA support/ complicity with Russia, or if the main players involved didn't have such an abundant history of graft and murder that is plainly obvious for even the dullest to see, I'd have put the story in the vast "interesting if true" warehouse, but the reality is that there is far too much supporting evidence to dismiss this story out-or-hand, as I was so anxious to do.



Fixed that for you.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, February 16, 2018 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Remember that story I related about the Ukrainian Uber driver?- GSTRING
Nope!
Your posts are generally so pointless, since they are mostly personal attacks, that I seldom read them.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, February 16, 2018 4:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, if you think Americans are stupid, lazy, and unaware, listen to this. This man is awake, aware, and angry. For anyone who cares to get a different perspective, listen to this from 0:00 to 24:45 and from 59:26 to the end. (The segment in between is about Yugoslavia, which was topical at the time this was recorded in 1999, but not relevant in such detail now). The thing that amazes me ... this was recorded 19 years ago, before the GWB reign and before Obama. And nothing has changed. All of the criticisms leveled then against Bush I, Bill, and early Bush II apply just as much to Bush II's presidency, and Obama's.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, if you think Americans are stupid, lazy, and unaware, listen to this. This man is awake, aware, and angry. For anyone who cares to get a different perspective, listen to this from 0:00 to 24:45 and from 59:26 to the end. (The segment in between is about Yugoslavia, which was topical at the time this was recorded in 1999, but not relevant in such detail now). The thing that amazes me ... this was recorded 19 years ago, before the GWB reign and before Obama. And nothing has changed. All of the criticisms leveled then against Bush I, Bill, and early Bush II apply just as much to Bush II's presidency, and Obama's.

Signym, it is less helpful than you imagine to look at Americans to understand what America, the whole country, does for a living. Your video breaks Americans down into groups, talks about capitalism, class, and interactions. It is all very nice and academic, but the America I live in only has the brains of a nematode with a few hundred neurons interacting to give it all its behavior. America is very simple minded beast. The cold-blooded and ruthless way to get the country to move in a particular direction is to find a particular neuron in the nematode-size-brain of America and zap it to get the behavior you want. Although the tiny brain of America hasn’t been mapped out completely, the day is coming when it is. There is an article about artificial nematode brains: www.artificialbrains.com/openworm Not all nematodes species have the same brain. Neither do all nations have the same tiny brain design: http://news.aces.illinois.edu/news/closer-look-reveals-nematode-nervou
s-systems-differ


Running on with the nematode brain analogy, there is a Democrat/Republican neuron, D/R, in America’s brain. Since there is only 302 neurons, zapping the D/R makes a noticeable difference, but most behavior stays almost identically wormy.

One more analogy and I stop. There is a connection between the number of guns in America and the number of nukes and how America, as a whole country, not as individuals, thinks about weapons. America has decided to not have enough gun control: “In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate,” Dan Hodges wrote, referring to the 2012 attack that killed 20 young students at an elementary school in Connecticut. “Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.”

America has the same relationship with nukes as it has with guns. Once America decided killing Japanese children with nukes was bearable, it was all over. Someday, millions will die because the US has too many nukes. Everyday, people die because the US has too many guns. An article about mass shootings and the real cause, not the imagined causes most people cite:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us
-international.html


Why does America experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

Americans make up about 4.4 percent of the global population but own 42 percent of the world’s guns. From 1966 to 2012, 31 percent of the gunmen in mass shootings worldwide were American, according to a 2015 study by Adam Lankford, a professor at the University of Alabama.

Adjusted for population, only Yemen has a higher rate of mass shootings among countries with more than 10 million people — a distinction Mr. Lankford urged to avoid outliers. Yemen has the world’s second-highest rate of gun ownership after the United States.

Worldwide, Mr. Lankford found, a country’s rate of gun ownership correlated with the odds it would experience a mass shooting. This relationship held even when he excluded the United States, indicating that it could not be explained by some other factor particular to his home country. And it held when he controlled for homicide rates, suggesting that mass shootings were better explained by a society’s access to guns than by its baseline level of violence.

More gun ownership corresponds with more gun murders across virtually every axis: among developed countries, among American states, among American towns and cities and when controlling for crime rates. And gun control legislation tends to reduce gun murders, according to a recent analysis of 130 studies from 10 countries.

This suggests that the guns themselves cause the violence.

The Difference Is Culture

The United States is one of only three countries, along with Mexico and Guatemala, that begin with the assumption that people have an inherent right to own guns.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


People do have an inherent right to own guns. End of discussion.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But SECOND, you're making my point for me: Assuming that you're correct and that American collectively has the brain of a nematode. Unmolested, the nematode (as lowly as it is) would be doing nematode-beneficial things .... moving towards food, avoiding noxious stimuli. So what is it about this nematode that makes it so dysfunctional? You said it yourself:
Quote:

The cold-blooded and ruthless way to get the country to move in a particular direction is to find a particular neuron in the nematode-size-brain of America and zap it to get the behavior you want.
That presupposes that SOMEbody is doing the zapping. And, of course, the only way to *zap!* Americans is thru the mass media and social media, because that is how Americans communicate.

WMD! *zap!*
Communism! *zap!*

You, yourself, seem to be just as subject to being zapped as anyone else, and to *zap* others too.

RUSSIA! *zap!*
Republicans! *zap!*
Trump! *zap!*
Obama! *zap!*

And if someone suggests that the nematodes perhaps look up and see that they're being zapped and possibly cognate WHO is zapping them, you seem anxious to avoid that thought.

You were very upset that people were not FIGHTING but the first thing Americans should do is figure our who their real enemy is, otherwise its a wasted fight.

******

As for me, I have a lot of nematode-beneficial things to do in the near future: water that parking lot tree (trees are good plus I park in its shade), submit a bunch of reimbursement forms, deal with dear daughter's insurance, figure out why my car battery suddenly died, install better trellises and rehab my climbing roses, continue to simplify our possessions, meet with a lawyer and figure out the ins and outs of conservatorship and special needs trusts, in addition to taking care of family and dog, so once again I may be out for a while.

ttul


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You were very upset that people were not FIGHTING but the first thing Americans should do is figure our who their real enemy is, otherwise its a wasted fight.



It's also dangerous, and a lot of innocent people get hurt for no reason as well.

Instead of looking at guns as the problem as we ALWAYS do when something like the school shooting the other day happens, why aren't we looking into the actual problems that drive kids these days to doing something like this.

Stuff is broke right now. A lot of it. Trying to take away guns is like putting a Band Aid on a tumor, especially since it won't happen anyhow.


Why are our school systems failing our children? Not just the shooters. All of them. A lot of kids today are just miserable, let alone useless.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, February 17, 2018 6:15 PM

OONJERAH


I moved this post to the "Blood on their hands...?" thread.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 18, 2018 9:17 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You were very upset that people were not FIGHTING but the first thing Americans should do is figure our who their real enemy is, otherwise its a wasted fight.



It's also dangerous, and a lot of innocent people get hurt for no reason as well.

Instead of looking at guns as the problem as we ALWAYS do when something like the school shooting the other day happens, why aren't we looking into the actual problems that drive kids these days to doing something like this.

Stuff is broke right now. A lot of it. Trying to take away guns is like putting a Band Aid on a tumor, especially since it won't happen anyhow.

Why are there unsolvable American problems? Because the person who has the problem has to solve the problem pretty much alone. If you have a problem with being gunned down at school, you have to give the crazy student’s name to the police. You also have to arm yourself or a guard at school. If you can’t afford to do that, if you don’t know the crazy fellow with the gun, too bad for you. It is the American way to let problems go unsolved. Leave all the work to people with the problem.

Why have the person who has the problem solve it? I think 6ixStringJack could name many reasons, but the best explanations involve admitting that Americans don’t care for other Americans and their problems. It costs money and inconvenience to care. Who cares to do that when you are busy solving your own problems?
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Why are our school systems failing our children? Not just the shooters. All of them. A lot of kids today are just miserable, let alone useless.

I’ll give you two examples from my school days about dumping problems onto the person least able to solve them. Happily, somebody solved them for me, but for most Americans pretty much nothing good happens.

1) I’m in second grade and cannot read. With a handwritten note, the teacher dumps my problem on my parents because the teacher has 39 other students. My parents know my sister’s teacher, Mrs Fox, at Sunset Elementary. She is a widow, even poorer than my parents. I received one reading lesson on a Saturday with Mrs Fox. If I sound out the word from the letters for Mrs Fox I will get a delicious glass of lemonade. I still remember the lemonade, but if my parents had not known Mrs Fox, and if she had not needed the money, and if my parents couldn’t pay, no lemonade for me. Forever. Despite being easy, I and my parents would never solve this problem on our own. We tried and failed until Mrs Fox helped. I know people in Texas who can’t read. There was no Mrs Fox for them.

2) The playground coach for Sunset Elementary had the job of keeping order when we played our violent kickball games. He wore sunglasses and a coach’s whistle all the time. When he took off his sunglasses to write, I could see the tan line. He writes a note to my parents. I could have thrown it away. I did not. I was lucky that Vernon Gutterman was at my house when the note was read. Vernon and my Father both worked at a hamburger stand. That is not a middle class job, by the way. Vernon took me and my Father to a downtown optometrist two times and paid for my glasses. The details about my Father paying him back are unknown to me. In Texas, I’ve known people who can’t see. There was no Vernon Gutterman for them when they were in elementary school.

Major problems in America don’t get solved because the people who have the problem are the least able to solve it and the most likely to be ruined by it. Being a less than helpful country, America says it is not America’s problem. Too bad for you when you fail. There are tremendous number of failures. And the poorer you are, the more likely you cannot solve your own problems. Even being poor is your problem, not America’s. You get to solve it almost completely alone. I could probably connect Americans wanting to nuke foreigners to Americans angry and frustrated by their unsolved problems, but that’s too much trouble for me to write. Write it yourself. You are on your own.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 18, 2018 10:10 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


You have 3 videos of 3 people. If you had 30,000,000 people on your side it would not be enough. You need 300,000,000 people. If you had 150,000,000 on your side it is not enough because the numbers pro and con are about equal. In the case of a tie, the decision always goes to the most belligerent.

I do not agree with your bus analogy, where there is one driver and everyone else is a passenger. The Houston Chronicle explained today that the passengers can grab the driver and throw him under the bus:
"If you’re a Texan, and your governor runs a campaign image of a revolver (a machine designed to kill) nestled against a Bible, vote him out; there’s no place in this state for such an obscenity. If you’re a Floridian, and you have a governor and U.S. senator so craven that they can’t even mention the phrase “gun control” in the wake of unspeakable tragedy, vote them out; they’re in thrall to the NRA, not to the people they purport to represent. If you’re an American, and you have a president who, in his public utterance about last week’s school massacre, relies on tired nostrums about mental health and never mentions guns, vote him out. (He’s the same president, by the way, who signed a bill last year revoking an Obama-era initiative that made it harder for people with a mental illness to acquire a gun.)"
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Why do you think the 1% can bully the other 99%? It certainly is not because the 1% are belligerent.
You're kidding, right? I once heard a story from an (illegal Guatemalan) housekeeper who told me about a time, during a great agitation for labor rights, of a union meeting that was called at their village church. All in all, about 400 villagers showed up. And then a Gutemalan right-wing death squad gunned them all down.

What have we been posting about all along? The belligerance of the elite's army, right? And as for our internal policies ... did you know that we have the highest incarceration rate in the world?

Quote:

With 1kiki and Signym, I don't believe they are who they pretend to be: American citizens. If they are Russian trolls or spambots, they are doing their jobs well and nobly serving their country. Congratulations to them both! But if they actually live in America, they've both had a very odd upbringing. Still I can say Congratulations to them both for writing well and from their hearts.
I have to agree with KIKI- you should get out more. Are you so fixated on Americans being purposefully stupid and chicken that when some show up who aren't, you can;t imagine that they're American?

This guy, he's American:


So is this guy

And this guy ...

But, aside from THEM, there is ..... YOU. YOU seem to be decrying the same things that they are: the rape of the world by the elite. Aren't you American? And then there is ME: You and I seem to be saying the same thing. So why are fighting me? Are you one of those people who can't take "yes" for an answer?

Well, in any case, your thinking stops at ordinary Americans. But you seem to forget that ordinary Americans aren't really driving this bus. Ordinary Americans aren't deciding what to put on the news, what to show on TV, what religion to preach, the amount and content of advertising. If you're going to blame somebody for the shape the world is in, why don't you go one step farther and at least share some of the blame with the people who are in charge: the sociopathic elite?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876]

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 18, 2018 11:50 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It looks like there is more than 1 factor driving homicide rates - gun ownership, economic distress, and social cohesion.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:

Why have the person who has the problem solve it? I think 6ixStringJack could name many reasons, but the best explanations involve admitting that Americans don’t care for other Americans and their problems. It costs money and inconvenience to care. Who cares to do that when you are busy solving your own problems?



I think I've said on quite a few occasions that this is the case. Although I've also said that it's not an American trait, but a human trait.

That being said, no, I don't think this is the problem that needs to be solved.

Glad you learned how to read.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 18, 2018 1:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:

Why have the person who has the problem solve it? I think 6ixStringJack could name many reasons, but the best explanations involve admitting that Americans don’t care for other Americans and their problems. It costs money and inconvenience to care. Who cares to do that when you are busy solving your own problems?



I think I've said on quite a few occasions that this is the case. Although I've also said that it's not an American trait, but a human trait.

That being said, no, I don't think this is the problem that needs to be solved.

Glad you learned how to read.

Modern humans have been around for 200,000 years. That is about 200,000 years of failing to solve really simple problems, followed by an early death. Most progress is in the last 6,000 years. More accurate, last 600 years. Even more true, the last few years. I asked myself often why the hell did my ancestors waste hundreds of thousands of years? Then I look around me in Texas and I see it is pretty obvious why, if my ancestors were anything like these stingy Republicans.
www.universetoday.com/38125/how-long-have-humans-been-on-earth/

If I had not learned to read, I'd never had been a mechanical engineer or a lot of other things. Instead, my path in life would have been the same as my Father's. Professional Hamburger Restaurateur. I'd not be voting Democrat; I'd be a bitter Republican, eager to nuke Arabs, and doing my very useful, yet low paid job. I'd be wondering why I'm not getting my fair share and when is Trump going to get a low yield atom bomb he can drop on whoever he pleases? I'd be my Dad, in other words.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
What would it have taken to stop Hitler?
Mon, October 22, 2018 21:37 - 22 posts
The Mid-Term Elections 2018
Mon, October 22, 2018 20:40 - 307 posts
He'z messin with the misl treatyz now!!!!
Mon, October 22, 2018 18:25 - 11 posts
Why the NPC Meme Crashed Twitter #OrangeManBad
Mon, October 22, 2018 18:17 - 25 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Mon, October 22, 2018 13:04 - 1939 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!!!
Mon, October 22, 2018 03:12 - 1093 posts
‘Hyper-alarming’ study reveals dramatic decline of insect population in rainforest
Mon, October 22, 2018 01:46 - 7 posts
Countdown Clock to Trumps impeachment " STARTS"
Sun, October 21, 2018 14:38 - 1424 posts
North Korea
Sun, October 21, 2018 13:30 - 109 posts
Who Has Been Fired From Celebrity Appresident?
Sun, October 21, 2018 09:32 - 28 posts
Ghosts
Sat, October 20, 2018 22:31 - 6 posts
Where has SIG and 1kiki's outrage about anyone allying with Saudia Araba gone ?
Sat, October 20, 2018 11:46 - 19 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL