This is Why Trump is a SCUMBAG! by SHINYGOODGUY

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Monday, July 16, 2018 10:01 AM
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62480&mid=1
057215#1057215

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yanno what I get out of this?

The intelligence community's efforts at a soft coup by making things up like 'golden showers' and leaking select bits to show Trump 'colluded' with Russia - not going as well as hoped. The 'democratic' party hiding behind RUSSIA!!! as an excuse for not coming up with a ggod agenda - not going as well as hoped. The endless anti-Trump propaganda in the media to cost Trump support - not going as well as hoped.

So let's forget all the pretense of legal moves to get rid of Trump.

They were never more than a pretense anyway.

33 indictments. Guilty pleas. Sentences. No pretense needed. A supine, pro-Trump, absolutely compliant press that glosses over every outrage.

Keep moving those goalposts, comrade.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 1:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yanno what I get out of this?

The intelligence community's efforts at a soft coup by making things up like 'golden showers' and leaking select bits to show Trump 'colluded' with Russia - not going as well as hoped. The 'democratic' party hiding behind RUSSIA!!! as an excuse for not coming up with a ggod agenda - not going as well as hoped. The endless anti-Trump propaganda in the media to cost Trump support - not going as well as hoped.

So let's forget all the pretense of legal moves to get rid of Trump.

They were never more than a pretense anyway.

33 indictments. Guilty pleas. Sentences. No pretense needed. A supine, pro-Trump, absolutely compliant press that glosses over every outrage.

Keep moving those goalposts, comrade.

Yep, and more indictments to come. Think Americans and Wikipedia.

I'd add that because of trumps and putins press conference the republican party has just been backed into a corner.

T

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Monday, July 16, 2018 2:30 PM

This Was Among the Most Disgraceful Moments in the Modern History of the American Presidency
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a22164229/donald-trump-vladimir-
putin-press-conference-disgrace/

We have just witnessed one of the most disgraceful moments in the modern history of the United States presidency. Donald Trump, American president, held a joint press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin and sided, over and over again, with the thuggish authoritarian leader of a geopolitical adversary who engineered an attack on U.S. democracy. He lined up against his own intelligence community, his domestic political opponents, and the free press. It should go down with his performance after the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, when he so infamously suggested there were "very fine people on both sides"—that is, that very fine people march alongside Nazis.

Actually, the American president had an eerily similar moment Monday, when he essentially blamed both sides for the poor relations between the U.S. and Russia. No, like the white supremacists in Charlottesville, it's not Russia's fault for its aggression in Europe and its attack on America. It is, according to the U.S. president, the fault of all of us. This was a continuation of his rhetoric in the lead-up.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 2:42 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
Yep, and more indictments to come.

Despite the fact you've been claiming this for over a year, it never seems to get old for you. I'm sure Mueller will indict Trump for conspiracy with the Russians. any. day. now. Please, hold your breathe waiting.

Quote:
Think Americans and Wikipedia.

AHEM. Don't you mean WikiLEAKS?

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Monday, July 16, 2018 2:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, I thought I'd share Clapper's original statement about the alleged hacking - before he saw which way the political wind was blowing and how he could take advantage of it.

Quote:

DNI Clapper's As Delivered Remarks at the 2016 INSA & AFCEA Intelligence & National Security Summit

People all around the world, not just opposing parties, want to know what the candidates are thinking. That's why we've seen attempted cyber intrusions against parties and candidates going back more than one election cycle.

We've certainly seen it this year with the network intrusion against the Democratic National Party. The President said last week, and I quote, "Experts have attributed this to the Russians." So I won't get out ahead of the President on this, particularly while the FBI is still conducting an investigation, but I can reiterate his other point. The Russians hack our systems all the time, not just government, but also corporate and personal systems. And so do the Chinese and others, including non-state actors. The point is, cyber will continue to be a huge problem for the next Presidential administration, as it has been a challenge for this one. "
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/speeches-interviews/speeches-in
terviews-2016/item/1627-dni-clapper-s-as-delivered-remarks-at-the-2016-insa-afcea-intelligence-national-security-summit

In roughly 16 pages of text - that was it.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 3:01 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Meanwhile

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/the-nsa-uses-powerful-toolbo
x-in-effort-to-spy-on-global-networks-a-940969.html
Documents Reveal Top NSA Hacking Unit

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/29/der-spiegel-nsa-hacking-
unit-tao
NSA 'hacking unit' infiltrates computers around the world – report

NSA officials responded to the Spiegel report with a statement, which said: "Tailored Access Operations is a unique national asset that is on the front lines of enabling NSA to defend the nation and its allies. [TAO's] work is centred on computer network exploitation in support of foreign intelligence collection."

Der Spiegel has previously reported on documents leaked by the former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. The report on Sunday was partly compiled by Laura Poitras, who collaborated with Snowden and the Guardian on the first publication of revelations about the NSA's collection of the telephone data of thousands of Americans and overseas intelligence targets.

On Friday, the NSA phone data-collection programme was ruled legal by a federal judge in New York, days after a federal judge in Washington declared the operations unconstitutional and "almost Orwellian".

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Monday, July 16, 2018 3:19 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And no collusion - or conspiracy if you prefer - with RUSSIA!!! Yes, by all means. Ignore that little failure and keep moving those goalposts.

Speaking of ignorance... do you still not know what Mueller knows? YES!!!

Meanwhile in the real world, the walls keep closing:

https://www.ft.com/content/0df54316-892b-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340

US charges Russian woman of acting as Kremlin agent

The US government has charged a Russian national with conspiring to act as an agent without registering in an apparent effort to build a back-channel between the Kremlin and the Republican Party through the National Rifle Association.

Mariia Butina, 29, appeared in court on Monday and is accused of attempting to infiltrate US political organisations. She was held pending a hearing on Wednesday, according to the Department of Justice.

The charges were unsealed just hours after Donald Trump held a press conference with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki where he refused to back the US intelligence community’s verdict that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election over Mr Putin’s denials.

More at the Justice Dept.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

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Monday, July 16, 2018 3:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Whatever.

You need three things to support your endless claims. All three things have to be in the same place at the same time. There are three things. Do you think you can remember all three things? Can you hold as many as three things in your mind at the same time?

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

Otherwise, you're babbling like an idiot. Oh wait! You ARE an idiot!

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Monday, July 16, 2018 4:46 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Whatever.

You need three things to support your endless claims. All three things have to be in the same place at the same time. There are three things. Do you think you can remember all three things? Can you hold as many as three things in your mind at the same time?

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

Otherwise, you're babbling like an idiot. Oh wait! You ARE an idiot!

Have a little patience, 1kiki. It took years to convict Don Gotti, Don Trump's spiritual brother. Both Dons belligerently declared themselves innocent, as did their many fans. Both Dons continued to go about their crooked business for year after year after year as the FBI continued investigating. It will take years before Trump ends the same as Gotti, unless V.P. Pence pardons Trump. Gotti couldn't expect a pardon because he didn't have buddies who owed him a favor in the GOP controlled Congress or White House.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gotti

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 5:19 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

We got TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

The US Department of Justice today charged Maria Butina, a Russian citizen, with illegally acting as a secret Russian agent on US soil. She was allegedly trying to set up a communications backchannel between the Russian government and US politicians.

Butina’s planned communication backchannel “could be used to penetrate the US national decision-making apparatus to advance the agenda of the Russian federation,” the 17-page affidavit (pdf) says. www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

The document describes how Butina was directed by a senior Russian official and was in close contact with two US citizens, as she arranged meetings and dinners with members of an unnamed gun rights organization—almost certainly the National Rifle Association. The description of the senior Russian official directing Butina closely matches the profile of Alexander Torshin, a Russian deputy Central Bank chief.

Torshin, who has been sanctioned by the US Treasury Department, is a lifetime NRA member and shared a table with Donald Trump Jr. at the organization’s 2016 convention. In November 2016, he tweeted that he and Butina were the only Russian lifetime NRA members that he knew.

More at https://qz.com/1329272

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 5:54 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Whatever.

You need three things to support your endless claims. All three things have to be in the same place at the same time. There are three things. Do you think you can remember all three things? Can you hold as many as three things in your mind at the same time?

TRUMP+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

Otherwise, you're babbling like an idiot. Oh wait! You ARE an idiot!

Right, because "whatever" is the argument a genius makes. You embarrass yourself.

BTW - do you know what Mueller has?

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Monday, July 16, 2018 5:57 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There is nothing illegal about "back channel" communications between top government officials of different nations. Obama had his own back channel to Russia, and also one with Iran, so WTF???

I would EXPECT that our President, no matter who he or she is, of whatever party, would have non-public lines of communication open to MANY world leaders... in China, Germany, Russia, etc. It's an unsafe world, and would be only more unsafe if significant miscommunication were to occur/ be allowed to persist.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Monday, July 16, 2018 6:50 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There is nothing illegal about "back channel" communications between top government officials of different nations. Obama had his own back channel to Russia, and also one with Iran. WTF???

I would EXPECT that our President, no matter who he or she is, of whatever party, would have non-public lines of communication open to MANY world leaders... in China, Germany, Russia, etc. It's an unsafe world, and would be only more unsafe if significant miscommunication were to occur/ be allowed to persist.

Signym, Trump's staff don't agree with your twisted and silly notions. White House aides want you to believe the president stands with Putin because he doesn’t understand what’s going on.

Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election.

The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional:

A number of people who’ve discussed election meddling with Trump, including current senior administration officials, say his brain can’t process that collusion and cyberattacks are two different things, Swan emails.

Trump seems constitutionally incapable of taking anything Mueller finds seriously.

He views the entire exercise as a “witch hunt” cooked up by Democrats and Deep State conspirators to underline his election win.

Ego prevents him acknowledging the possibility that any external action could have interfered with his glorious victory.

The handful of White House staff Swan has privately communicated with since today’s press conference are not proud of the man they work for. But he doesn’t expect any to resign.

More at www.axios.com/trump-putin-russia-helsinki-congress-intelligence-06a4c2
1e-59e5-419e-9f70-e88018c87bd2.html

Signym, you wanted Trump to be a "loose cannon" -- an unpredictable or uncontrolled person. That crashing sound isn't a cannon smashing a wooden sailing ship's hull. It is Trump's brain crashing around inside his numb skull.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 7:06 PM

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Monday, July 16, 2018 7:14 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..

Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Monday, July 16, 2018 7:30 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..
Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

Rather than speculating about what we don’t know about Trump and Russia, it’s worth stepping back to see how much we do know.

We know that Russia orchestrated a massive theft of information from the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign, and used that information to help Donald Trump win the election.

We know that Trump publicly asked Russia to do exactly what it did — to hack Clinton’s emails — and we know that Trump repeatedly praised Vladimir Putin, at considerable political cost, in the aftermath. We know that Trump associates, like Roger Stone, appeared to have advance warning of the release of the hacked emails.

We know that the willingness to cooperate with the Russians wasn’t an idiosyncratic musing of Trump’s, but suffused the top ranks of his campaign: Trump’s inner circle — including Manafort, Jared Kushner, and Donald Trump Jr. — eagerly took a meeting with Russian operatives promising dirt on Clinton. And we know Trump himself dictated the statement lying about the purpose of the Trump Tower meeting.

We know, from Trump’s own testimony, that he fired the director of the FBI to end his investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election. We know that Trump has wanted to fire both his attorney general and his deputy attorney general because he feels they’ve failed to protect him from this investigation. Tellingly, the Trump administration has moved from arguing that the president did not obstruct justice to arguing that by definition, the president cannot obstruct justice.

We know in that in 2008, Donald Trump Jr. said of the Trump organization, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” We know that in 2014, Eric Trump added, “We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.” We know that from 2003 to 2017, “buyers connected to Russia or former Soviet republics made 86 all-cash sales — totaling nearly $109 million — at 10 Trump-branded properties in South Florida and New York City.”

We know that Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager, had ties to the Kremlin and was deeply in debt to Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch closely connected to Putin. We know Manafort was in communication with Deripaska’s team during the election, and that he asked, of his powerful position in Trump’s campaign, “How do we use [it] to get whole?”

We know that Russia’s efforts to help Trump went far beyond hacked emails — they included social media campaigns to inflame racial divisions on his behalf, armies of bots meant to elevate news stories helping him and hurting Clinton, and even efforts to compromise state voting machines.

We know that the Trump campaign interfered in the Republican National Committee’s drafting of its platform to soften the language on Russia and Ukraine. We know that Kushner sought a secret communications channel with Russians so the US government couldn’t hear their negotiations. We know that Trump has personally fought both his administration and his party to stop sanctions punishing Russia for electoral interference.

We know that there is no single issue that has bedeviled the Trump administration as long or as much as Trump’s connections to Russia. We know that since the election, Trump has bucked both his party and decades of American foreign policy to try to protect Russia from sanctions, pull American support back from both NATO and the European Union, and forge a closer personal relationship with Putin. We know Trump insisted on the Helsinki meeting with Putin over the objections of his staff and despite the absence of any clear agenda.

Imagine it’s 2012 and someone described to you everything we would know in 2018. Would this sound like a hazy, unclear state of affairs? Or would it sound like we actually knew more than enough — indeed, a terrifying amount?

More at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/16/17573692/trump-putin-meeting
-helsinki-mueller-russia

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 7:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..
Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

You're Russian.

Why should we care what you say?

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Monday, July 16, 2018 7:51 PM

If you work for Trump, quit now
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/quit-now-trump-staffers-save-y
our-souls/2018/07/16/6529cb3a-8920-11e8-85ae-511bc1146b0b_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.08cded792e7b

Everyone who works for President Trump: Quit now. Save your souls. Save your honor, such as it is. Save your reputation, such as it remains. Russia attacked our democracy. Trump has demonstrated repeatedly, and did so again with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, that he doesn’t care and won’t defend his country.

If you work for this man and you call yourself a patriot, it is time for you to go.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 7:59 PM

It’s Resignation Time
Trump’s performance in Helsinki was a disgrace. Any member of his national security team who sticks with him now is doing a disservice to America.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/after-helsinki-any-respons
ible-member-of-trumps-national-security-team-must-resign.html

Really, any member of Trump’s national security team who doesn’t resign immediately—or perhaps better, offer to testify about any incriminating information they might possess—is from this point on doing a disservice to the United States.

The moment that should have been a turning point for all Americans was when Trump was asked whom he believes on the question of whether Russia interfered with the 2016 election: Putin, who denies all involvement, or the U.S. intelligence community, which unanimously and firmly concludes otherwise.

Trump’s reply was, even by his standards, astonishing. First, he tried to skirt the issue, asking what happened to the Democratic National Committee’s computer servers, what happened to Hillary Clinton’s 33,000 emails, why isn’t the FBI looking into those mysteries. Then he said this: “President Putin said it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it should be … I will tell you, President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial.”

So there you have it. Asked to choose between the verbal assurances of the Russian president (a former KGB officer who has lied about all offensive cyberoperations against the West) and the detailed reports of U.S. intelligence agencies (as well as the repeated testimony of his own entire national security team), Trump chose the Russian spy.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 8:21 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
We got TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

No, you don't.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080761/download
Criminal Complaint

Manner and Means of the Conspiracy
b. BUTINA did establish contact with an American political operative in Moscow who thereafter would work with BUTINA in the United States

Overt Acts
a. On or about March 14, 2016, BUTINA emailed a U.S. person in an effort to develop, maintain and exploit a relationship in the furtherance of the conspiracy
c. On or about September 26, 2016, BUTINA emailed a U.S. person to organize an event (note: a prayer breakfast)

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1080766/download

7. U.S. Person 1 is a United States citizen and political operative. BUTINA established contact with U.S. Person 1 in Moscow in or around 2013. U.S. Person 1 worked with BUTINA to jointly arrange introductions to U.S. persons having influence in American politics, including an organization promoting gun rights.

* Further information about U.S. Person 1
U.S. Person 1 received an email from Butina soliciting constructive diplomacy. Butina also mentions a relationship with the gun rights organization, introductions to 'political party leaders' to foster 'informal diplomacy', with a deadline before the election and requesting a $125,000 budget. U.S. Person 1 replied with cautions, advice, and a list of political, media and business contacts.
There's also a lot of communication surrounding trying to bring a National Prayer Breakfast event together. The event was concluded with emailed thanks all around.

8. U.S. Person 2 is a United States citizen who was included among the participants in a series of email communications in 2016 and 2017 that reveal BUTINA's effort to arrange a series of dinners in the District of Columbia and New York City involving Russian Nationals and U.S. persons having influence in American politics. BUTINA told U.S. Person 2 that the RUSSIAN OFFICIAL was "very much impressed by you" and that "the Russian will support the efforts from our side". (These particular quotes are brought up multiple times, but they still only constitute two short phrases.)

* Further information about U.S. Person 2
U.S. Person 2 is an additional recipient of more than one Butina email where she passes along the already noted flattery, and promise of 'support. A few days later, Butina emailed U.S. Person 2 that she had gotten approval from her official, and that all that was needed was Putin's (or presumably a representative - "Putin's side") approval.
U.S. Person 1 and U.S. Person 2 received an email regarding organizing another dinner in D.C.
After the successful completion of the National Prayer Breakfast, Butina emailed U.S. Person 2 with thanks and a cryptic mention that Putin received 'the message' about U.S. Person 2's (?) (the group) initiative.
At no time is there an indication U.S. Person 2 responded directly to any of the estimated 5 or fewer emails.

U.S. Person 1's obsequious and yet self-important communication has the air of a consultant trying to drum up business. I would think it was Manafort, but the timeline looks off.

U.S. Person 2 could be Trump Jr, who appears to be a passive recipient in an email train.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 8:27 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Monday, July 16, 2018 7:30 PM
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62480&mid=1
057271#1057271

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, speaking of delusional ...

Quote:
Top aides at the White House are peddling a remarkable excuse for President Donald Trump’s embarrassing performance at a press conference in Helsinki on Monday, where he sided with Russian President Vladimir Putin over American intelligence officials on the question of whether Russia interfered in the 2016 election. The president, they tell Axios’s Jonathan Swan, is delusional..
Our "intelligence" officials are known proven liars who have been gunning for Trump since before the election. What did they think he was going to say.. . Yeah, I'm going to side with the officials who have lied in the past, who continue to lie about non-existent collusion, and who have maintained a pattern of extreme bias for Hillary and against me" ... ??? The only people who are delusional are people like Brennan, who I personally suspect of treason.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
You're Russian.

Why should we care what you say?

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Monday, July 16, 2018 8:32 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/russian-national-charged-conspiracy-act
-agent-russian-federation-within-united-states

Nice try, Comrade 1kiki, but no cigar.

Asked directly, Putin does not deny possessing “compromising material” on Trump. Yes, this is about the “pee tape.”

Putin did not say the tape doesn’t exist. Instead, he argued that he was not personally aware of Trump’s trip to Russia and also mentioned about businessmen: “Do you think that we try to collect compromising material on each and every single one of them?” No, just the important ones.

In the past, Trump has obsessed over the existence of compromising footage, saying “if they had it, it would have been out long ago.” Trump in office has served as the most Russia-sympathetic, NATO-skeptical, EU-hostile president since the end of World War II, and it clearly wouldn’t be in the interests of the Russian government to release anything that would make Trump look bad.

More at www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576784/trump-putin-pee-tape

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 8:33 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

RF

I'm curious what will go through your mind when you're proven wrong in court.

I wonder if your teeny, tiny head will explode.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 8:36 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
We got TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIA+CONSPIRACY

U.S. Person 1's obsequious and yet self-important communication has the air of a consultant trying to drum up business. I would think it was Manafort, but the timeline looks off. I can't at all explain the request for a $125,000 'budget'.

U.S. Person 2 could be Trump Jr, who appears to be a passive recipient in an email train.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
RF

I'm curious what will go through your mind when you're proven wrong in court.

I wonder if your teeny, tiny head will explode.

Likewise, comrade.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:41 PM

Look! A Republican who puts country above party! Wow! I wasn't sure there were any left!

Southeast Ohio Republican Party leader resigns over Trump-Putin meeting
https://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2018/07/southeast_ohio_republ
ican_part.html

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Look! A Republican who puts country above party! Wow! I wasn't sure there were any left!

Southeast Ohio Republican Party leader resigns over Trump-Putin meeting
https://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2018/07/southeast_ohio_republ
ican_part.html

Drain that swamp baby.

Another one bites the dust.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:43 PM

Hillary Clinton: 'Now we know' which team Trump plays for
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/397309-hillary-clinton-now-
we-know-which-team-trump-plays-for

Hillary Clinton said “now we know” what team President Trump plays for, following his joint press conference Monday with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Clinton had asked Trump in a Sunday tweet "which team he plays for."

After the Trump-Putin summit in Helsinki, Clinton said she had her answer.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:44 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Good to know that 1kiki will defend Trump, even when the GOP would rather not. They hope Helsinki will soon be forgotten. I believe it will, except not by me:

Newt Gingrich @newtgingrich — President Trump must clarify his statements in Helsinki on our intelligence system and Putin. It is the most serious mistake of his presidency and must be corrected—-immediately.

Michael Anton — a diehard Trump supporter who worked at the White House until recently — cancelled his appearance on CNN because he said he couldn’t defend Trump.

Conservative journalist Byron York on Fox: “Putin wasn’t taking the side of the US intelligence service. That’s a significant mistake.”

Sen. John McCain: “One of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory.”

Sen. Bob Corker: “I did not think this was a good moment for our country.”

Sen. Jeff Flake: “This is shameful.”

Thomas Friedman: “Such behavior by an American president is so perverse, so contrary to American interests and values, that it leads to only one conclusion: Donald Trump is either an asset of Russian intelligence or really enjoys playing one on TV.”

Paul Ryan: “The president must appreciate that Russia is not our ally. There is no moral equivalence between the United States and Russia, which remains hostile to our most basic values and ideals.”

State Department: Nothing. The entire department went dark today.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:48 PM

The beginning of the end of a fascist nightmare.

Even I, an eternal skeptic, can't see how Trump can get his handlers to spin him out of this.

Rush Limbaugh will try first, of course. What I'm hearing on reichwing channels at the moment is weak sauce.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 9:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
The beginning of the end of a fascist nightmare.

Even I, an eternal skeptic, can't see how Trump can get his handlers to spin him out of this.

Rush Limbaugh will try first, of course. What I'm hearing on reichwing channels at the moment is weak sauce.

Tick Tock?

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 16, 2018 10:02 PM

We'll see how Rush spins it. He's the main mouthpiece of the RNC.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 10:04 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Tick Tock?

lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

More like Trump is a cuckoo clock tick tock.

Having offered earlier in the week scathing, specific indictments of the European Union’s immigration policy, of the United Kingdom’s efforts to negotiate a “soft” version of Brexit, and of Germany’s energy infrastructure policies, Trump had no specific criticisms of Vladimir Putin’s domestic or international policies.

Asked point-blank by a Reuters journalist, “Do you hold Russia at all accountable for anything in particular” that has contributed to the decline in the US-Russia bilateral relationship, President Trump delivered the defining answer of his foreign policy: He does not.

He did not object to Putin’s domestic repression, to Russia’s 2008 effort to dismember the former Soviet republic of Georgia, to Russian-backed forces shooting down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH-17 and killing hundreds of civilians, to Russia’s invasion of Crimea or subsequent invasion of Eastern Ukraine, to Russia’s apparent use of a deadly nerve agent in the UK, or (of course) to the computer hacking associated with the 2016 election.

Trump’s staff keeps trying to cover for him, but Trump’s words say otherwise. It’s true, of course, that he’s not bothered by Russians committing crimes to help him win the election. But he’s also not bothered by anything Putin does at all, which is why he was worth helping in the first place.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 16, 2018 10:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Good to know that 1kiki will defend Trump"

Except I didn't. Unlike you SLOPPY-SECONDS, I tried to understand what this meant. As far as I can tell, neither U.S. Citizen 1 nor U.S. Citizen 2 were indicted, or put in legal jeopardy by any of the documents I found. Nothing IN THOSE DOCUMENTS shows that TRUMP(JUNIOR)+RUSSIANS+CONSPIRACY exists, as you so stupidly claimed. But, that's just you. The stupid person's stupid person.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 10:16 PM

Trump just colluded with Russia. Openly.
If Putin wanted a U.S. president to do his bidding, it would look exactly like this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-just-put
-russia-first/2018/07/16/8391f9aa-8914-11e8-a345-a1bf7847b375_story.html?utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.b83d91bf69f6

A generally pro-Trump source.

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Monday, July 16, 2018 10:33 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Sadly, Trump's efforts to defuse tensions between nuclear powers will fail utterly.

But the REACTION to his efforts -

It reminds me of the time Ronald Reagan (Saint Reagan, to republicans) escaped his handlers and minders and sat down to talk with Gorbachev. And low and behold, the two emerged with a common goal of reducing nuclear arms.

Democrats, who at the time thought being anti-war was the key to success, couldn't cheer. After all, the 'wrong side' did it. And republicans were furious at Reagan for being a republican who fundamentally disavowed their war-hawk strategy.

NOBODY was happy over that good agreement.

But together Reagan and Gorbachev concluded the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) agreement and established the foundation for the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START).

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 5:32 AM

Yeah, Trump's a genius. This is all about making the world a better place...

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:05 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Yeah, Trump's a genius. This is all about making the world a better place...

Donald Trump could be the new Benedict Arnold, or the alternative explanation, from Senator Mike Rounds (GOP - South Dakota), is that Trump lied about Russian meddling during summit as a bizarre form of statecraft: "Everything I’ve seen and all the facts are very clear: Russia did meddle in our election. That was very clear. So I think what actually happened, I think Mr. Putin just got out-Trumped by Trump. If Mr. Putin thinks he can tell a whopper, he’s not gonna be outdone by this president. And so if Mr. Putin is going to look at him and try to straight-faced tell him that they didn’t meddle, our president can look right back at him and tell just as big a whopper back to Putin as Putin told him."
https://twitter.com/ericawerner/status/1018991723878453248

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:16 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Unlike you SLOPPY-SECONDS, I tried to understand what this meant.

And too bad you failed to, your word, "understand". Are you sure "understand" is the right word? "Obfuscate" is what you actually did. And not just once, but thousands of times over many years. Could you possibly be a Russian like Maria Butina? Or just a crazy American?

To help 1kiki truly "understand", only hours after Trump and Putin’s lovefest ended the Justice Department announced that it had charged Russian woman Maria Butina, unregistered foreign agent of the Russian Federation, with establishing a back channel means of communication between influential Republicans and the Russian government.

The CIA had a rule against meeting the KGB alone. Trump was reckless to ignore it with Putin.

In 1983, the KGB contacted Carl Gebhardt, the CIA’s Moscow station chief, with a proposal. In order to avoid needless problems between the two spy services, the KGB wanted to open a secret communications channel with the CIA.

The CIA readily agreed, and the pact led to a series of secret meetings between top CIA and KGB officials in Europe. Eventually nicknamed the “Gavrilov channel,” after a 19th century Russian poet, this carefully choreographed exchange of secret communications continued throughout the remainder of the Cold War.

Some of the Gavrilov meetings took place in Helsinki, where Donald Trump met with Vladimir Putin on Monday. But one of the key differences between the Gavrilov channel and the Trump-Putin meeting was that the CIA always insisted on having at least two American officers present – no one from the CIA could meet the KGB alone. That guaranteed that no American could hand over secrets to the KGB without at least one other American knowing about it; it also insured that no American would come under unfair suspicion of being a KGB spy simply by meeting with the Russians alone.

Trump, on the other hand, insisted on meeting Putin without any of his aides present. At a time when there is a federal investigation underway into whether his campaign colluded with the Russians to win the 2016 election, Trump’s decision to meet Putin alone was at best reckless. His many critics will take it as further evidence that he really is a KGB agent.

Both leaders’ comments to reporters after the meeting only reinforced the growing belief among many Americans that Trump is in Putin’s pocket. Trump said that Putin had denied to him that Russia had meddled in the 2016 election — and that was good enough for Trump. “My people came to me, [Director of the Office of National Intelligence] Dan Coats came to me and some others, they said they think it’s Russia,” Trump said. “I have President Putin. He just said it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

More at https://theintercept.com/2018/07/16/trump-putin-summit-helsinki/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:26 AM

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:03 AM

In other news: Maria Butina, Russian "gun rights activist," working with the NRA, is arrested for spying. The other Russians indicted will probably never see a trial, but she's right here in an American jail.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/16/politics/butina-russia-arrest-7-things/
index.html

Manafort's hearing is suddenly moved back.
https://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2018/06/12/paul-manafor
t-virginia-trial-schedule-637802

Reichwingers all over the country put their fingers in their ears and go "La la la, I can't hear you!"

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:36 AM

WAIT… WHAT?
Trump’s ‘Missing DNC Server’ Is Neither Missing Nor a Server
The president can spout conspiracy theories all he wants. But the DNC turned over all its key data to the FBI after it got hacked. And that info wasn’t stored on a single server.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-mis
sing-nor-a-server

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:37 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States, so against what all of his advisers have told him that Americans are scratching their heads and saying, if that’s not the explanation, that Putin has something on him, then what is it? What the heck could it be? It could be Putin says flattering things about Trump, so our president, a walking bundle of insecurities, likes him. Further, his liking of Vladimir Putin triggers the libs. But the libs have evidence enough that Trump acts this way because the Russians have dirt on him. The spectacle in Helsinki proves that Putin has something on the President, personally, financially or politically. Which one? I suggest Congress waterboard Trump to find out which. Trump said waterboarding is an okay way to gather evidence:

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States

Bullshit

You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.

You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)

So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I'll bet you that you can't.

I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
WAIT… WHAT?
Trump’s ‘Missing DNC Server’ Is Neither Missing Nor a Server
The president can spout conspiracy theories all he wants. But the DNC turned over all its key data to the FBI after it got hacked. And that info wasn’t stored on a single server.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-mis
sing-nor-a-server

In order to understand what happened when one must examine THE ACTUAL HARD DRIVES AND LOGS.

What REAVERFAN fails to understand is that data doesn't go into a "cloud" somewhere, it goes into an actual server, or set of servers, which are controlled by software which maintains, among other things, log files of every requested access. Somehow, I doubt the FBI got THAT information.

I find it emblematic that the FBI simply took the DNC's word for it that they were "hacked" without once examining the actual system files and hard drives. Furthermore, and more importantly, the FBI has apparently deliberately blocked any attempt to discuss the issue with the one person who knows FOR SURE where the files came from, and that is Julian Assange. THAT particular fact is hard to explain and impossible to get around. It would be the SECOND thing that a genuine investigator would do, after taking possession of the actual hard drives (for forensic examination) and closely examining the log files. So, why wasn't either action done?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Trump’s behavior at Nato, in London, in Helsinki, is so inexplicable and so against the interest of the United States
Bullshit

You have not once - NOT ONCE - explained the interests of the United States, or explained WHICH United States interests you feel have been crossed.

You've wailed long and loud about the poor illegal Hispanic migrants, the poor downtrodden Syrians, the poor fearful Eastern Europeans who need protection from Big Bad Russia, the poor poor around the world .... but NOT ONCE have you actually posted about AMERICA's interests. It's like you conflated our interests with every foreign victim subgroup, and act like we're supposed to swoop in and fix everything for everybody. (Yanno, like that worked so well in Vietnam.)

So, since you brought up American's interests, maybe NOW is the time to tell me what our interests are that have been crossed?? Not Canada's, not Britain's, not the EU's .... not Mexico's, not Syria's, not Ukraine's .... ours.

I predict that you will, once again, evade explaining an actual basis for your giant temper tantrum, and with nary a pause for reflection will continue to stomp your feet and bang your head against the floor and troll.

Because that's what adults do in a real world discussion board.

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
WAIT… WHAT?
Trump’s ‘Missing DNC Server’ Is Neither Missing Nor a Server
The president can spout conspiracy theories all he wants. But the DNC turned over all its key data to the FBI after it got hacked. And that info wasn’t stored on a single server.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-mis
sing-nor-a-server

In order to understand what happened when one must examine THE ACTUAL HARD DRIVES AND LOGS.

What REAVERFAN fails to understand is that data doesn't go into a "cloud" somewhere, it goes into an actual server, or set of servers, which are controlled by software which maintains, among other things, log files of every requested access. Somehow, I doubt the FBI got THAT information.

I find it emblematic that the FBI simply took the DNC's word for it that they were "hacked" without once examining the actual system files and hard drives. Furthermore, and more importantly, the FBI has apparently deliberately blocked any attempt to discuss the issue with the one person who knows FOR SURE where the files came from, and that is Julian Assange. THAT particular fact is hard to explain and impossible to get around. It would be the SECOND thing that a genuine investigator would do, after taking possession of the actual hard drives (for forensic examination) and closely examining the log files. So, why wasn't either action done?

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I see our local "computer genius" RF is such a whiz that he double-posted. Again.

Someone should teach you how to use the internet.

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Tuesday, July 17, 2018 1:22 PM