REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

He'z messin with the misl treatyz now!!!!

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Monday, October 22, 2018 23:40
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 225
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, October 21, 2018 11:36 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Be scared. Be very scared.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/20/politics/donald-trump-us-arms-agreement
-russia/index.html


Why iz Putin making hiz puppet back out uv the missl treaty?

The jeneral idea seemz obvious - he wants to make it look like America iz the instigator, but the spesifics coud giv us a hint uv hiz next big move.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, October 21, 2018 11:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Be scared. Be very scared.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/20/politics/donald-trump-us-arms-agreement
-russia/index.html


Why iz Putin making hiz puppet back out uv the missl treaty?

The jeneral idea seemz obvious - he wants to make it look like America iz the instigator, but the spesifics coud giv us a hint uv hiz next big move.



Did you even read the article?

Some highlights in case you didn't...


Quote:

In 2014, CNN reported that the US had accused Russia of violating the INF Treaty, citing cruise missile tests that dated to 2008. CNN reported in 2014 that the United States at the time informed its NATO allies of Russia's suspected breach.

However, it wasn't until recently that NATO officially confirmed Russia's activity constituted a likely violation.



And

Quote:

"After years of denials, Russia recently acknowledged the existence of a new missile system, called 9M729. Russia has not provided any credible answers on this new missile. All allies agree that the most plausible assessment would be that Russia is in violation of the treaty. It is therefore urgent that Russia addresses these concerns in a substantial and transparent manner."
Moscow's failure to adhere to the agreement was also addressed in the most recent Nuclear Posture Review published by the Defense Department in February, which said Russia "continues to violate a series of arms control treaties and commitments."
"In a broader context, Russia is either rejecting or avoiding its obligations and commitments under numerous agreements and has rebuffed U.S. efforts to follow the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START) with another round of negotiated reductions and to pursue reductions in non-strategic nuclear forces."



And probably most importantly

Quote:

Administration officials believe the treaty has put the US at a disadvantage because China does not face any constraints on developing intermediate-range nuclear missiles in the Pacific and it does not allow the US to develop new weapons.
Trump, speaking with reporters on Saturday, referenced China when explaining his reasoning for pulling out of the agreement.
"Unless Russia comes to us and China comes to us and they all come to us and say, 'Let's really get smart and let's none of us develop those weapons.' But if Russia's doing it and if China's doing it and we're adhering to the agreement, that's unacceptable," Trump said.






So I wonder, why do you seem to be agreeing with high ranking Russian officials who say the following:

Quote:

Outspoken Russian senator Alexey Pushkov tweeted Sunday that the "United States is bringing the world back to the Cold War" in reaction to Trump's decision, which he called a "massive blow to the entire system of strategic stability in the world."

Senior Russian lawmaker Konstantin Kosachev warned on his Facebook page that "the consequences would be truly catastrophic." However, he said it's not official that the US has pulled out of the INF, saying "it's still possible to consider Trump's statement as continuous blackmail rather than a completed legal act."





As for Europe?

Quote:

"I suspect our European allies right now are none too happy about hearing that President Trump intends to pull out of it," Former State Department spokesman Rear Adm. John Kirby, a CNN military and diplomatic analyst said.


Why would that make them unhappy?

We're the only ones who have Europe's back and they're all within firing range of any nukes that both Russia and China have.




You're either going to have to re-think this J0, or you're going to have to be very clear about exactly what your problems with what Trump is doing here are.

I can't blame you for being confused. CNN doesn't seem to know what to think of it either depending upon which paragraph of this article you're reading.




When you say the following, I'm confused at your outlook on this...

Quote:

The jeneral idea seemz obvious - he wants to make it look like America iz the instigator, but the spesifics coud giv us a hint uv hiz next big move.


CNN seems to be unclear about who is the instigator, for sure, but I think it's pretty obvious to anybody who looks at it without CNN's opinions that Russia is the instigator here and has been for possibly a decade. Also, considering that China's influence grows every day and they are not even part of the original agreement this is the right thing to do.

Please let me know if you still think that this is the wrong move and exactly why you think so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 12:54 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Be scared. Be very scared.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/20/politics/donald-trump-us-arms-agreement
-russia/index.html


Why iz Putin making hiz puppet back out uv the missl treaty?

The jeneral idea seemz obvious - he wants to make it look like America iz the instigator, but the spesifics coud giv us a hint uv hiz next big move.


Did you even read the article?

Some highlights in case you didn't...
Quote:

In 2014, CNN reported that the US had accused Russia of violating the INF Treaty, citing cruise missile tests that dated to 2008. CNN reported in 2014 that the United States at the time informed its NATO allies of Russia's suspected breach.

However, it wasn't until recently that NATO officially confirmed Russia's activity constituted a likely violation.


And
Quote:

"After years of denials, Russia recently acknowledged the existence of a new missile system, called 9M729. Russia has not provided any credible answers on this new missile. All allies agree that the most plausible assessment would be that Russia is in violation of the treaty. It is therefore urgent that Russia addresses these concerns in a substantial and transparent manner."
Moscow's failure to adhere to the agreement was also addressed in the most recent Nuclear Posture Review published by the Defense Department in February, which said Russia "continues to violate a series of arms control treaties and commitments."
"In a broader context, Russia is either rejecting or avoiding its obligations and commitments under numerous agreements and has rebuffed U.S. efforts to follow the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START) with another round of negotiated reductions and to pursue reductions in non-strategic nuclear forces."


And probably most importantly
Quote:

Administration officials believe the treaty has put the US at a disadvantage because China does not face any constraints on developing intermediate-range nuclear missiles in the Pacific and it does not allow the US to develop new weapons.
Trump, speaking with reporters on Saturday, referenced China when explaining his reasoning for pulling out of the agreement.
"Unless Russia comes to us and China comes to us and they all come to us and say, 'Let's really get smart and let's none of us develop those weapons.' But if Russia's doing it and if China's doing it and we're adhering to the agreement, that's unacceptable," Trump said.



So I wonder, why do you seem to be agreeing with high ranking Russian officials who say the following:
Quote:

Outspoken Russian senator Alexey Pushkov tweeted Sunday that the "United States is bringing the world back to the Cold War" in reaction to Trump's decision, which he called a "massive blow to the entire system of strategic stability in the world."

Senior Russian lawmaker Konstantin Kosachev warned on his Facebook page that "the consequences would be truly catastrophic." However, he said it's not official that the US has pulled out of the INF, saying "it's still possible to consider Trump's statement as continuous blackmail rather than a completed legal act."


As for Europe?
Quote:

"I suspect our European allies right now are none too happy about hearing that President Trump intends to pull out of it," Former State Department spokesman Rear Adm. John Kirby, a CNN military and diplomatic analyst said.

Why would that make them unhappy?

We're the only ones who have Europe's back and they're all within firing range of any nukes that both Russia and China have.

You're either going to have to re-think this J0, or you're going to have to be very clear about exactly what your problems with what Trump is doing here are.

I can't blame you for being confused. CNN doesn't seem to know what to think of it either depending upon which paragraph of this article you're reading.

When you say the following, I'm confused at your outlook on this...
Quote:

The jeneral idea seemz obvious - he wants to make it look like America iz the instigator, but the spesifics coud giv us a hint uv hiz next big move.

CNN seems to be unclear about who is the instigator, for sure, but I think it's pretty obvious to anybody who looks at it without CNN's opinions that Russia is the instigator here and has been for possibly a decade. Also, considering that China's influence grows every day and they are not even part of the original agreement this is the right thing to do.

Please let me know if you still think that this is the wrong move and exactly why you think so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

2008 to 2018 for NATO to confirm that Truth and Facts are Truth and Facts? Johnny on the Spot, they are. Are they still arguing about that Sun revolving around Earth thing? Even The Vatican finally gave up that Ghost.

Are you quoting yet another Obamabot, as if they have something valid or unbiased to spew? Kirby provided cover for the final 13 months of Obama corruption. Could a more suspect source be found?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 1:28 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The US has on its plate small tactical nukes AND its stated 'first-use' policy that says the US reserves the right to use nukes first, in an offensive capacity. Both sides have been advancing nuclear weapons systems. So I don't think either side has been Dudley Do-Right.

When it comes to who can justifiably point to aggressive actions by the other side against which they might need a defense, I learned of this humorous take: Russia has aggressively moved its borders closer to US warships.

As for intermediate range missiles, quite obviously Europe should be nervous. Intermediate range from Russia is Europe. But maybe all those missile defense systems the US moved along the Russian border ... in case "Iran!" (cough cough) ... are part of a long-range neo-con defensive/ offensive European capability.

Yanno, Hillary was voluntarily headed that way. It just took longer to corral Trump into it.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 5:28 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


The Q iz why now?.

Going by the unsupportable theory that Trump iz not following Putinz orderz, it seemz to make sens for the US to bak out uv the treaty.

'theyve been cheating for yirz' - true.

'no advantaj for the US' - maybe.

Obama wuz no fan uv Putin, so wy didnt he do this a long time ago? He aint no chimp but Trump iz.

You cant think its a good idea to hav a chimp making any disijunz about nuclear weponz, even if he iznt the puppet uv your enemy.

With Trump making good progress in consolidating hiz power, you haf to wonder wy he did this so close to the midtermz. Haz the game reached a staje in wich this wuz the goal, or just another move?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 8:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
The Q iz why now?.

Going by the unsupportable theory that Trump iz not following Putinz orderz, it seemz to make sens for the US to bak out uv the treaty.

'theyve been cheating for yirz' - true.

'no advantaj for the US' - maybe.

Obama wuz no fan uv Putin, so wy didnt he do this a long time ago? He aint no chimp but Trump iz.



Entirely your own opinion. One I don't happen to share about either of them.

Quote:

You cant think its a good idea to hav a chimp making any disijunz about nuclear weponz, even if he iznt the puppet uv your enemy.


Can't say that it is. That's probably why this didn't get any airplay at all while Obama was President.

Quote:

With Trump making good progress in consolidating hiz power, you haf to wonder wy he did this so close to the midtermz. Haz the game reached a staje in wich this wuz the goal, or just another move?



Personally, I'd be more suspicious about the extremely well timed and somewhat well documented roving band of thousands of Honduran "refugees" that are "storming" the Mexican border right before the mid-terms.

You kind of get the idea where I'm coming from when it comes to the issues, J0, and even I have to admit that this particular development at this particular time is rather fortuitous for the Republican party. It literally is a no-win situation for the Democrats.

October Surprise, anyone?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 4:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Someone mentioned to me that it looks like the McCain neo-con branch of the republican party could be the source of the pressure on Trump, because, as it was pointed out, the democrats are awfully quiet about this.


So, going from there - the democrats ARE awfully quiet about this. That indicates to me what their true position (or should I say, the position of their masters) is. Which is, aggressive war-hawk. By any means necessary. In Obama, they had a faithful servant, whose claim to fame was advancing their agenda on the dl and on the cheap. The Ukraine, Honduras, Libya, and Syria were all instigated on his watch (and Hillary's).


The democrats are not an alternative to this escalating position.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 4:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


JO, REAVERFAN, THUGR, SECOND, GSTRING:

Happy now???

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 5:52 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Commit the crime & blame the Democrats.

This stratejy iz being worn out by Trump and the Republicanz.

Yesterday on Meet the press, Steve King blamed Obama 3 timez for the Khashogi murder!



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 6:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Commit the crime & blame the Democrats.

This stratejy iz being worn out by Trump and the Republicanz.

Yesterday on Meet the press, Steve King blamed Obama 3 timez for the Khashogi murder!



It's worn out by everybody.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 6:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Commit the crime & blame the Democrats."

WTF are you babbling about? NOBODY is blaming the democrats for this, you dolt. I even PERSONALLY pointed to the McCain branch of the republican party.

The democrats have enough war, corruption, and anti-Russia provocation of their own that they need to be blamed for. But this ** IS ** what you were all angling for, isn't it? Yanno, don't try to get along with Russia, start wars on its borders and with its allies, raise tensions indefinitely. Really, do I need to go back and quote your endless anti-Russia propaganda to you? Or can you remember just a few weeks back, by digging in your own feeble mind?

And ... maybe you need to have this pointed out to you - AGAIN. The democrats are NOT an alternative to this. Don't believe me? Which democratic party leader has raised an objection? Any objection at all?




tic tac

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 11:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yes, indeed, KIKI,

IS THIS NOT WHAT YOU WERE ANGLING FOR ALL ALONG JO/ REAVERFAN/ THUGR/ SECOND???

Moving our borders, and our missiles, closer and closer to Russia*? Sanction and more sanctions? Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "Russian troll", and impugning RUSSIA!!!with our every misfortune and failure?

Do you all know what you remind me of ever since Trump was elected? A two year-old, having a shit-fit of a tantrum in the middle of a grocery store.

Sheesh.



* I heard a funny joke: "The Russians are aggressively moving their borders closer and closer to our aircraft carriers!!"


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 22, 2018 11:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Do you all know what you remind me of ever since Trump was elected? A two year-old, having a shit-fit of a tantrum in the middle of a grocery store.



Exactly.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
A Good Week in News: Nationalism isn't Wrong, Antifa is a Violent Fringe Movement, Women's March Award Stripped over Antisemitism
Tue, November 13, 2018 19:16 - 2 posts
Trump's Trade Wars - another disaster
Tue, November 13, 2018 18:36 - 41 posts
Piece of shitsky
Tue, November 13, 2018 18:12 - 48 posts
Our Liar-in-Chief
Tue, November 13, 2018 16:36 - 2 posts
Rigged voting .... been going on for a long time, and still happening
Tue, November 13, 2018 12:50 - 70 posts
Sessions resigned/fired
Tue, November 13, 2018 12:39 - 46 posts
So.... About this "Caravan"
Tue, November 13, 2018 10:24 - 198 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Tue, November 13, 2018 08:18 - 2016 posts
The Caravan, The Deficit, The 14th Amendment and the Trump Narrative
Tue, November 13, 2018 07:03 - 56 posts
Trump Falsely Says 5 Million Illegal Ballots
Tue, November 13, 2018 03:23 - 63 posts
The Mid-Term Elections 2018
Tue, November 13, 2018 00:44 - 488 posts
Countdown Clock to Trumps impeachment " STARTS"
Mon, November 12, 2018 20:55 - 1505 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL