REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Stop dividing the world into "good" and "evil"

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, November 4, 2018 03:22
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VIEWED: 1133
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Friday, November 2, 2018 10:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The Vietnamese that I've talked to seemed to cherish Freedom and Democracy, and wish their former country had both.
You talked to them here in the USA, yes???

Did it not occur to you that you were talking to a "self selected" population? No?

Did to manage to talk to the parents of deformed children in Vietnam about Agent Orange? Did you manage to talk to the two-three million people killed in our effort to ... oh wait, not possible to talk to dead people.

My god, you're blind.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, November 2, 2018 10:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Spreading Democracy and open Markets around the world is a bad thing?"

I would say that spreading democracy at the point of a gun, and spreading open markets by fiat, seem inherently self-contradictory, and so, self-defeating.

I would need to know how you reconcile those to continue considering your ideas.

??
I had not considered forcing a horse to drink water.
If imprisoned persons do not wish to achieve Freedom, we should not force Freedom upon them.
I don't recall hearing about many French objecting to liberation from Nazi occupation. Some of the French seemed to desire a return to Self Governing, I didn't think we forced Freedom upon them, or democracy.

I don't recall Republic of Korea Citizens ranting in opposition to being allowed self governance.

The Vietnamese that I've talked to seemed to cherish Freedom and Democracy, and wish their former country had both. About the same with Hmong, and Cambodians. They were forced into Communism, not forced into Freedom.

Rumor has it that no persons were ever recorded as breaching the Berlin Wall to escape Freedom and Democracy in favor of Communism, unlike the Official Communist Policy.


You are ignoring the fact that there where Frenchmen and women fighting in the Resistance to free France from German occupation. Also the Dutch Resistance along with Germans inside Germany fighting to free their own people from the Nazis.

I say this as Remembrance Day is coming.

I was not ignoring this, and am sorry if you really think I was. Their Government had abandoned them, capitulated to Nazis, and at minimum were a Government in Exile.

Were they successful in freeing France from Nazi occupation, prior to America expelling Germans?

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Saturday, November 3, 2018 2:41 AM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Spreading Democracy and open Markets around the world is a bad thing?"

I would say that spreading democracy at the point of a gun, and spreading open markets by fiat, seem inherently self-contradictory, and so, self-defeating.

I would need to know how you reconcile those to continue considering your ideas.

??
I had not considered forcing a horse to drink water.
If imprisoned persons do not wish to achieve Freedom, we should not force Freedom upon them.
I don't recall hearing about many French objecting to liberation from Nazi occupation. Some of the French seemed to desire a return to Self Governing, I didn't think we forced Freedom upon them, or democracy.

I don't recall Republic of Korea Citizens ranting in opposition to being allowed self governance.

The Vietnamese that I've talked to seemed to cherish Freedom and Democracy, and wish their former country had both. About the same with Hmong, and Cambodians. They were forced into Communism, not forced into Freedom.

Rumor has it that no persons were ever recorded as breaching the Berlin Wall to escape Freedom and Democracy in favor of Communism, unlike the Official Communist Policy.


You are ignoring the fact that there where Frenchmen and women fighting in the Resistance to free France from German occupation. Also the Dutch Resistance along with Germans inside Germany fighting to free their own people from the Nazis.

I say this as Remembrance Day is coming.

I was not ignoring this, and am sorry if you really think I was. Their Government had abandoned them, capitulated to Nazis, and at minimum were a Government in Exile.

Were they successful in freeing France from Nazi occupation, prior to America expelling Germans?




Ordinary citizens and any free French forces that remained weren't successful. My point was that the people of those occupied countries were doing something while they hoped the world would help them. Don't dishonour their sacrifices.

England and by extension Canada had troops on the ground in Europe before the US. So spare me the flag waving.

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Saturday, November 3, 2018 3:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

I don't recall Republic of Korea Citizens ranting in opposition to being allowed self governance.
So, you think only South Koreans are real Koreans, and North Koreans are ... what, exactly? Perhaps you need a reminder that many Koreans in the north did far more than rant against the west's imposition of self-governance (a contradiction of ideas if there ever was one ... externally imposed self-governance). They picked up arms, and with the help of China, fought the US to a standstill. So much for all Koreans welcoming the US's imposed governance.
Quote:

The Vietnamese that I've talked to seemed to cherish Freedom and Democracy, and wish their former country had both.
I'm going to make the same point about the North Vietnamese as I did about the North Koreans. Do you not consider them Vietnamese?
Quote:

Rumor has it that no persons were ever recorded as breaching the Berlin Wall to escape Freedom and Democracy in favor of Communism, unlike the Official Communist Policy.
Then you simply haven't looked it up. Before the wall was built, there was migration in both directions. https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001109662.pdf However, there are no available East German immigration statistics afterward.

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Sunday, November 4, 2018 3:22 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

I don't recall Republic of Korea Citizens ranting in opposition to being allowed self governance.
So, you think only South Koreans are real Koreans, and North Koreans are ... what, exactly? Perhaps you need a reminder that many Koreans in the north did far more than rant against the west's imposition of self-governance (a contradiction of ideas if there ever was one ... externally imposed self-governance). They picked up arms, and with the help of China, fought the US to a standstill. So much for all Koreans welcoming the US's imposed governance.
Quote:

The Vietnamese that I've talked to seemed to cherish Freedom and Democracy, and wish their former country had both.
I'm going to make the same point about the North Vietnamese as I did about the North Koreans. Do you not consider them Vietnamese?
Quote:

Rumor has it that no persons were ever recorded as breaching the Berlin Wall to escape Freedom and Democracy in favor of Communism, unlike the Official Communist Policy.
Then you simply haven't looked it up. Before the wall was built, there was migration in both directions. https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001109662.pdf However, there are no available East German immigration statistics afterward.

I had not planned on arguing your point of view.
But I will answer your questions.
I had though persons of Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea were....not Free, not at Liberty to leave their country at will.

I had been under the impression North Vietnamese peoples were.... under Communist Dictatorial Rule. I don't think I have met anybody who has identified as a former North Vietnamese. The hereditarily Vietnamese that I have known had nothing good to say about their North cousins.

I hadn't thought of this before, in this way, but all of the Koreans I have known have also not identified themselves as North Koreans.

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