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Ocasio-Cortez' wish-list

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, December 10, 2018 11:02
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VIEWED: 894
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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.





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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, what is right with this wish-list, and what's wrong with it?

Before I pick this apart, I'm going to repeat my criticism of Venezuela, which has fallen apart in the most horrible ways.

When Chavez came to power he nationalized the oil industry, and used that oil wealth to "help" people: medical care and housing and food subsidies and education for "poor people". Now, these services are vital and - in a some cases (imho) the correct purview of government. But ...

The problem was that when oil prices fell, the Venezuelan government didn't have enough of an economy to take its place, and didn't have enough money to continue providing those services. IN ADDITION, the vast amounts of money flowing through the government to support these services led to a tremendous amount of corruption in government (and the military), so whatever money and goods were left after collapse were unfairly and inefficiently distributed. And since people had become dependent on government handouts, there were no alternate resources built up. And with sanctions on top of that, even with ginormous loans from China and help from Russia, Venezuela has become a clusterfuck.

I think you see where I'm going with this ...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Transcribing:
1. Medicare for all.
2. Housing as a human right.
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

8. Mobilizing against climate change.
9. Clean campaign finance.
10. Higher education For all.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.



I might be able to get behind #5. But she will certainly not have a solution.

But why are these missing:
Climate Justice.
Men's Rights.
Universal Government Handouts, Dependency on The Nanny State for All.
Federal Income Guarantee.
Federal Hot Wife/Boytoy Guarantee.
Federal Phone Guarantee.
Federal Cable Guarantee.
Federal Car Guarantee.
Support heteros.
Basic Education for All.


And won't mobilizing create more pollution?

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:42 PM

WHOZIT


She is truly one of the stupidest people on the planet.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You forgot her wish that the Commie Fairies will bring her the rent she needs for her new apartment.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 20, 2018 11:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Thanks for the transcription.

Quote:

1. Medicare for all.
Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.
Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
Great!!
FUNDING???

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
Universal registration.

Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
This I can agree with.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.
"Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.
I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all.
Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.

Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.

Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 3:24 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You forgot her wish that the Commie Fairies will bring her the rent she needs for her new apartment.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Isn't that really the Socialist Fairy?

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 4:15 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Thanks for the transcription.
Quote:

1. Medicare for all.
Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.
Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
Great!!
FUNDING???
Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
Universal registration.

Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
Quote:


Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
This I can agree with.
Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.
"Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.
I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.

Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.
Quote:


Quote:

10. Higher education For all.
Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.

What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
Quote:


Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.

Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.

The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.
Quote:


Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.


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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You forgot her wish that the Commie Fairies will bring her the rent she needs for her new apartment.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Isn't that really the Socialist Fairy?



Potato, potato.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:45 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. Medicare for all.

Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.



Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonalds too.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?



Maybe we should ask Putin?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

Great!!
FUNDING???



Maybe we should ask Putin?

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

Universal registration.



I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.

Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.

Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons. This I can agree with.


I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE. Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?


To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?

... including Illegals.

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).



This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change."Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.


Another bullshit feel good expression.

I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.


Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all. Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.


Oh... more communist freebies?

Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.



100% Agree.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.



Agreed.


This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.

My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 12:25 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. Medicare for all.

Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.



Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonalds too.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?



Maybe we should ask Putin?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

Great!!
FUNDING???



Maybe we should ask Putin?

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

Universal registration.



I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.

Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.

Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons. This I can agree with.


I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE. Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?


To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?

... including Illegals.

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).



This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change."Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.


Another bullshit feel good expression.

I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.


Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all. Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.


Oh... more communist freebies?

Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.



100% Agree.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.



Agreed.


This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.

My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



You have an open bold bracket code boy (I've chosen not to fix it in this post).

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

You have an open bold bracket code boy (I've chosen not to fix it in this post).



Once again, something I'm not going to apologize for since this is due to replying on this ancient website which makes quotes needlessly a chore in 2018, and not due to an intentional and/or idiotic oversight when putting in a stupid tag at the end of every post I make.

Keep backing up your retarded friend. I find it very funny.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 21, 2018 11:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

1. Medicare for all.

SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonalds too.

1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.


Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.

SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.

1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.

SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.

1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.

1kiki: This is just like the meaningless crap that made up the DNC 'democratic' platform.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.

SIGNYM: "Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.

1kiki: priority #2 on my list, after not nuking the planet.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.

SIGNYM: I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.

1kiki: I'd say the first thing would be to require broadcasters in a county (for example) to require free broadcasting of debates to the top 100/10,000 signature getters.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all.

SIGNYM: Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Oh... more communist freebies?

1kiki: The problem is thee are just not enough jobs for people who either go to college or get trained in some vocation. Our job base has been hollowed out of those, and filled with jobs that require one to ask - do you want fries with that?

Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


SIGNYM: Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.
6IXSTRINGJACK: 100% Agree.

1kiki: It should be simple enough to support.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

SIGNYM: I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.
This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.
My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.

1kiki: definitely

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 4:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

You have an open bold bracket code boy (I've chosen not to fix it in this post).



Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up. Looks like sometimes I forget to leave the closing bold bracket in when I do this.

I've asked her to fix it now, and I ask anybody else not to finish their posts or signatures with links because it plays hell when somebody is trying to quote you. I will try to remember not to finish a post with a link in the future myself.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 6:50 AM

THG


It's Trumps agenda we need to focus on. Not a first term congresswoman. T





Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Thursday, November 22, 2018 11:55 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I'm in support of Trump's agenda. You go worry about it for us, T.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 12:00 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm in support of Trump's agenda. You go worry about it for us, T.




We know Jack. That's because you too are a racist and you racists have to stick together. Is the caravan here yet.

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Thursday, November 22, 2018 12:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Here's a synopsis of the video, so y'all don't have to listen to it:

1) IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP

2) AFTER GWB destroyed Afghanistan and Iraq and attempted to destroy a few more,
AFTER we killed a million people in the Mideast,
AFTER Madeline Albright said killing a half-million Iraq children was "worth it"
AFTER Hillary giggled We came, we saw, he died
AFTER Obama destroyed Libya and developed an assassination list (which included an American citizen) and started killing innocent people with our flying killing machines...

After all that ...

THEN these guys start spewing "moral standards" and "values" about Khashoggi??


The hypocrisy is sickening.

*****

You see, THUGR? I was right! Hypocrisy doesn't need to "begin" because it's alive and well, right here on FFF.net!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 12:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 12:44 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


OK, I think problem fixed. That's because the closed bracket was the very last character on that line, and if your post begins right after that it tends to bonk your entry IIRC.
I added a couple of characters at the end, let me know if that fixes the problem.

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 3:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, do none of the liberals here want to discuss the SUBSTANCE of Ocasio-Cortez' wishlist?

I mean, as you can see there are points in it where we could probably get 9 of the 10 people here to agree on, and other points where we could provisionally agree. And finally, the points where we disagree are probably worthwhile discussing.

Or dn't you want agreement and discussion?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, November 22, 2018 4:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Is the caravan here yet.



No. It's in Tijuana. They're in the process of kicking them out of Mexico.

Fucking brown nationalists, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 1:55 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OK, I think problem fixed. That's because the closed bracket was the very last character on that line, and if your post begins right after that it tends to bonk your entry IIRC.
I added a couple of characters at the end, let me know if that fixes the problem.

No, those are autodeleted. Try one hard return.

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Friday, November 23, 2018 1:56 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


For example.


Quote:

Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, November 23, 2018 1:57 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
For example.


Quote:

Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

Yep, that worked.

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Friday, November 23, 2018 2:01 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
For example.


Quote:

Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

Yep, that worked.



Disregard my reply to you in the other thread then, JSF. Seems we got our signals crossed.


Thanks Sigs. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 2:06 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Is the caravan here yet.


No. It's in Tijuana. They're in the process of kicking them out of Mexico.

Fucking brown nationalists, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

McAllen TX was the closest Crossing, so Tijuana was the greatest distance. Could the busses only go where the cameras were?

I heard that without busses, it would take them til February to arrive.

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Friday, November 23, 2018 8:14 AM

THG


After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.

Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility
/

T

Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Friday, November 23, 2018 9:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.

Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility
/





Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 11:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


OMFG.
THUGR.
What in god's name does your post have to do with Ocasio-Cortez?

ASIDE FROM the fact that you seem to have completely misinterpreted the article: Do you pick WHERE you post at random? Throw darts at a dart-board, or something?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, November 23, 2018 2:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OMFG.
THUGR.
What in god's name does your post have to do with Ocasio-Cortez?

ASIDE FROM the fact that you seem to have completely misinterpreted the article: Do you pick WHERE you post at random? Throw darts at a dart-board, or something?

Trolls need to post their random nonsense in active threads, because their own threads where they circle jerk have no traffic.

Or, they are the sockpuppet of second.


Did you notice the Troll also states that you are an effing dummy? Irony might escape them.

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Friday, November 23, 2018 2:47 PM

THG


Funny, I called all three of you dummies. Yep, funny...

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Friday, November 23, 2018 3:42 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.

Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility
/





Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.



Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Friday, November 23, 2018 5:56 PM

THG


Judge rules Trump charity lawsuit can proceed

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/judge-rules-trump-charity-lawsui
t-can-proceed


T

Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Friday, November 23, 2018 8:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.

Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility
/





Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.



Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.






I read it. It's meaningless to anybody outside of Colorado, and doesn't hold any bearing in this thread at all.

It's fine if you don't want to admit that you didn't know what the article was about until after I pointed it out to you.




Since we're talking about states that have nothing to do with New York or the thread title, here's one that actually might have a much larger cultural impact:

Democrats Nearly Got Wiped Out In Ohio And Can’t Figure Out What To Do Next (Source: Buzzfeed News)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/ohio-democrats-2020-sh
errod-brown-cordray




What Buzzfeed failed to mention, or perhaps research:

Ohio, When It Comes to Choosing Presidents, You're It. No Doubt About It

http://www.wvxu.org/post/ohio-when-it-comes-choosing-presidents-youre-
it-no-doubt-about-it#stream/0


Quote:

We know this because Kyle Kondik, managing editor of Sabato’s Crystal Ball, a weekly politics newsletter published by the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics, looked at presidential elections dating back to 1896 and found that no state had a higher percentage of picking the winner – 28 of 30, for 93 percent.





But good to hear about Colorado though...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 8:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.

Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility
/





Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.



Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.






I read it. It's meaningless to anybody outside of Colorado, and doesn't hold any bearing in this thread at all.

It's fine if you don't want to admit that you didn't know what the article was about until after I pointed it out to you.




Since we're talking about states that have nothing to do with New York or the thread title, here's one that actually might have a much larger cultural impact:

Democrats Nearly Got Wiped Out In Ohio And Can’t Figure Out What To Do Next (Source: Buzzfeed News)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/ohio-democrats-2020-sh
errod-brown-cordray


Quote:

National party operatives frightened by Donald Trump’s eight-point win in 2016 and equally dreadful midterm election results this month have begun to consider writing off the once-indisputable battleground state, no longer confident it is worthy of substantial investment in future elections.




What Buzzfeed failed to mention, or perhaps research:

Ohio, When It Comes to Choosing Presidents, You're It. No Doubt About It

http://www.wvxu.org/post/ohio-when-it-comes-choosing-presidents-youre-
it-no-doubt-about-it#stream/0


Quote:

We know this because Kyle Kondik, managing editor of Sabato’s Crystal Ball, a weekly politics newsletter published by the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics, looked at presidential elections dating back to 1896 and found that no state had a higher percentage of picking the winner – 28 of 30, for 93 percent.





But good to hear about Colorado though...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 23, 2018 8:40 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.

Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility
/





Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.



Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.






I read it. It's meaningless to anybody outside of Colorado, and doesn't hold any bearing in this thread at all.



So dummy, according to your logic Ocalio Cortez's district in New York’s 14th Congressional District, which includes the eastern Bronx and northern Queens, is not relevant or important to anyone outside her district. Yet here you are discussing her and her politics.

You, discussing a single district in New York as though it is important while insisting the democrats routing the republican party in the entire state of Colorado is meaningless to anyone other than people residing in the state. More Jack, more proof of your stupidity.

Wow Jack wow, you are stupid.

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies


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Friday, November 23, 2018 11:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole:


Quote:

1. Medicare for all.

SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.

1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.


Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.

SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.

1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.

SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.

1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.

1kiki: This is just like the meaningless crap that made up the DNC 'democratic' platform.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.

SIGNYM: "Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.

1kiki: priority #2 on my list, after not nuking the planet.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.

SIGNYM: I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.

1kiki: I'd say the first thing would be to require broadcasters in a county (for example) to require free broadcasting of debates to the top 100/10,000 signature getters.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all.

SIGNYM: Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Oh... more communist freebies?

1kiki: The problem is thee are just not enough jobs for people who either go to college or get trained in some vocation. Our job base has been hollowed out of those, and filled with jobs that require one to ask - do you want fries with that?

Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


SIGNYM: Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.
6IXSTRINGJACK: 100% Agree.

1kiki: It should be simple enough to support.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

SIGNYM: I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.
This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.
My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.

1kiki: definitely

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole



Yup. He's on full ignore for the rest of this thread.


Quote:

1. Medicare for all.

SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.
1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.

6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.


Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?

6IXSTRINGJACK: Nah. I'm the Nazi here, remember? I only speak to Hitler's ghost. Thought maybe G had a direct line to Putin since he's an actual Communist now.

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?

6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe. I think Halliburton/Blackwater or whatever they're calling themselves today would put a hit out on anybody involved in that though, regardless of party affiliation.

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.

6IXSTRINGJACK: Don't want to wade in these waters Kiki?

Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.

SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.

6IXSTRINGJACK: You should watch the show "Maron". One of the funniest bits I've ever seen was a slow pan out from a correctional officer's belt as comedian Marc Maron was talking to an "Indian" employee at his cable company trying to get his internet fixed and he was becoming extremely irate. The whole time it was panning out you started seeing the orange jumpsuits of a bunch of guys sitting down on the phones. The "Indian" that Maron was talking to was actually a really fat white prisoner pretending he had an Indian accent, and when he hung up the phone he said "Man, what a dick" in plain English.

It would not surprise me at all if this were happening and they were actually outsourcing jobs back to the US and having prisoners do it for pennies on the dollar for commissary bucks and early release guarantees.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.

SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.
1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.

6IXSTRINGJACK: I've got a few guesses...

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.
1kiki: This is just like the meaningless crap that made up the DNC 'democratic' platform.

6IXSTRINGJACK: Yup.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.

SIGNYM: "Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.
1kiki: priority #2 on my list, after not nuking the planet.

6IXSTRINGJACK: Eventually it will happen... When we run out of coal and oil.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.

SIGNYM: I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.
1kiki: I'd say the first thing would be to require broadcasters in a county (for example) to require free broadcasting of debates to the top 100/10,000 signature getters.

6IXSTRINGJACK: My brother's mentioned this before. Not a bad idea, but the Murdochs and Griffens would probably put a hit out on anybody involved in making this happen.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all.

SIGNYM: Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Oh... more communist freebies?
1kiki: The problem is thee are just not enough jobs for people who either go to college or get trained in some vocation. Our job base has been hollowed out of those, and filled with jobs that require one to ask - do you want fries with that?

6IXSTRINGJACK: Yup. Glad I made it work for me, but I'm one of the lucky ones.

Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


SIGNYM: Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.
6IXSTRINGJACK: 100% Agree.
1kiki: It should be simple enough to support.

6IXSTRINGJACK: One wonders how the Democrats have made Egalitarianism a bad word in 2018.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

SIGNYM: I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.
This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.
My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.
1kiki: definitely

6IXSTRINGJACK: Yup, but the Rocafellers and the McCormicks would probably put a hit out on anybody involved in making this happen.

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 12:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole:


Quote:

1. Medicare for all.

SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.

1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.


Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: This one I can get behind.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.

1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.

SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.

1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.

1kiki: This is just like the meaningless crap that made up the DNC 'democratic' platform.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Won't Mobilizing cause more pollution?
SIGNYM: "Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.

1kiki: priority #2 on my list, after not nuking the planet.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.

SIGNYM: I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.

1kiki: I'd say the first thing would be to require broadcasters in a county (for example) to require free broadcasting of debates to the top 100/10,000 signature getters.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all.

SIGNYM: Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Oh... more communist freebies?

1kiki: The problem is thee are just not enough jobs for people who either go to college or get trained in some vocation. Our job base has been hollowed out of those, and filled with jobs that require one to ask - do you want fries with that?

The Department of Educamation has made so much improvement in re-education that a College Degree has been required in MA to work at McDonald's.
Remember, 70% of today's College Graduates cannot pass a test to graduate the 8th Grade from 1895.
And if there are not enough jobs, then why did everybody just vote against jobs in the election? Why are Dems campaigning against jobs, campaigning to get rid of jobs? AO-C is the spokesbimbo for the party that hates jobs and works against having more jobs - such comprehension does not compute.
Quote:


Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


SIGNYM: Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.
6IXSTRINGJACK: 100% Agree.

1kiki: It should be simple enough to support.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

SIGNYM: I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.
This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.
My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.

1kiki: definitely



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Saturday, November 24, 2018 4:36 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole:


Quote:

1. Medicare for all.

SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.

1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.

Quote:

2. Housing as a human right.

SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?

Quote:

3. A Federal jobs guarantee.

SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?

1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?

Quote:

4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.

SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.


Quote:

5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: This one I can get behind.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.

1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.

Quote:

6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.

SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.

1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.

Quote:

7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.

SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.

1kiki: This is just like the meaningless crap that made up the DNC 'democratic' platform.

Quote:

8. Mobilizing against climate change.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Won't Mobilizing cause more pollution?
SIGNYM: "Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.

1kiki: priority #2 on my list, after not nuking the planet.

Quote:

9. Clean campaign finance.

SIGNYM: I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.

1kiki: I'd say the first thing would be to require broadcasters in a county (for example) to require free broadcasting of debates to the top 100/10,000 signature getters.

Quote:

10. Higher education For all.

SIGNYM: Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Oh... more communist freebies?

1kiki: The problem is thee are just not enough jobs for people who either go to college or get trained in some vocation. Our job base has been hollowed out of those, and filled with jobs that require one to ask - do you want fries with that?

The Department of Educamation has made so much improvement in re-education that a College Degree has been required in MA to work at McDonald's.
Remember, 70% of today's College Graduates cannot pass a test to graduate the 8th Grade from 1895.
And if there are not enough jobs, then why did everybody just vote against jobs in the election? Why are Dems campaigning against jobs, campaigning to get rid of jobs? AO-C is the spokesbimbo for the party that hates jobs and works against having more jobs - such comprehension does not compute.
Quote:


Quote:

11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.


SIGNYM: Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.
6IXSTRINGJACK: 100% Agree.

1kiki: It should be simple enough to support.

Quote:

14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.

SIGNYM: I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.
This last one could spawn hundreds of pages of desired reform.
My first would be 401k plans and how they siphon wages from the working class and contribute to companies always needing to up their bottom line by screwing workers just a little more every single year.

1kiki: definitely





You have an open bold quote, CokeZero (I left it open for you to fix).

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 5:50 PM

THG


Funny G

T


Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.

Fucking dummies




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Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"6IXSTRINGJACK: Don't want to wade in these waters Kiki?"

Honestly, I haven't thought about it enough.
murder rate by country

It's obviously not about economic development, because in terms of murder rates the US soars far above the other first-world nations, and even far above many 'backwards' ones.

1 El Salvador 82.84
2 Honduras 56.52
3 Venezuela 56.33
4 Virgin Islands 49.26
5 Jamaica 47.01
10 South Africa 33.97
20 Mexico 19.26
30 South Sudan 13.90
40 Barbados 10.91
50 Panama 9.67
60 Dominica 8.37
70 Ethiopia 7.56
80 Ukraine 6.34
90 United States 5.35
100 Kyrgyzstan 4.49
110 Timor-Leste 3.95
120 New Caledonia 3.23
130 Martinique 2.78
140 Myanmar 2.27
141 Fiji 2.26
142 Kurdistan Region (Iraq) 2.20
143 Syria 2.20
144 Nepal 2.16
145 Azerbaijan 2.14
149 Belgium 1.95
157 Canada 1.68
169 France 1.35
173 England and Wales 1.22
174 United Kingdom 1.20
175 Germany 1.18
176 Scotland 1.18

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Which means it's not necessarily about poverty rates, since poorer countries are more pacifist.

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


gun ownership seems to be one factor
If I had the time I'd graph one vs the other just to see what kind of line there was.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-rate-of
-gun-ownership.html

1 United States 101
2 Serbia 58.21
3 Yemen 54.8
4 Cyprus 36.4
5 Saudi Arabia 35.0
6 Iraq 34.2
7 Uruguay 31.8
8 Norway 31.3
9 France 31.2
10 Canada 30.8
11 Austria 30.4
12 Iceland 30.3
13 Germany 30.3
14 Finland 27.3
15 Oman 25.5
16 Bahrain 24.8
17 Kuwait 24.8
18 Switzerland 24.45
19 Republic of Macedonia 24.1
20 Montenegro 23.1
21 New Zealand 22.6
22 Greece 22.5
23 United Arab Emirates 22.1
24 Croatia 21.7
25 Panama 21.7

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/
2172rank.html


it's possible not poverty rates but GINI index is also involved - after Hong Kong the US has the second highest index of first world counties.

1 Lesotho 63.2 1995
2 South Africa 62.5 2013 est.
3 Micronesia, Federated States of 61.1 2013 est.
4 Haiti 60.8 2012
5 Botswana 60.5 2009
6 Namibia 59.7 2010
7 Zambia 57.5 2013
8 Comoros 55.9 2004 est.
9 Hong Kong 53.9 2016
10 Guatemala 53.0 2014 est.
11 Paraguay 51.7 2014
12 Colombia 51.1 2015
13 Papua New Guinea 50.9 1996
14 Panama 50.7 2014 est.
15 Chile 50.5 2013
16 Rwanda 50.4 2013 est.
17 Eswatini 50.4 2001
18 Gambia, The 50.2 1998
19 Brazil 49.0 2014
20 Congo, Republic of the 48.9 2011 est.
21 Nigeria 48.8 2013
22 Costa Rica 48.5 2014
23 Kenya 48.5 2016 est.
24 Mexico 48.2 2014
25 Dominican Republic 47.1 2013 est.
26 Nicaragua 47.1 2014
27 Honduras 47.1 2014
28 Bolivia 47.0 2016 est.
29 China 46.5 2016 est.
30 Malaysia 46.2 2009
31 Malawi 46.1 2010
32 Togo 46.0 2011
33 South Sudan 46.0 2010 est.
34 Ecuador 45.9 December 2017
35 Singapore 45.9 2017
36 Saudi Arabia 45.9 2013 est.
37 Mozambique 45.6 2008
38 Peru 45.3 2012
39 United States 45.0 2007
40 Cameroon 44.6 2001
41 Guyana 44.6 2007
42 Thailand 44.5 2015
43 Iran 44.5 2006
44 Philippines 44.4 2015 est.
45 Central African Republic 43.6 2003 est.
46 Chad 43.3 2011 est.
47 Zimbabwe 43.2 2011 est.
48 Israel 42.8 2013
49 Angola 42.7 2008 est.
50 Burundi 42.4 1998
51 Ghana 42.3 2012-13
52 Gabon 42.2 2005 est.
53 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 42.1 2012 est.
54 Argentina 41.7 2017 est.
55 Uruguay 41.6 2014
56 Cote d'Ivoire 41.5 2008
57 Russia 41.2 2015
58 Madagascar 41.0 2012
59 Morocco 40.9 2007 est.
60 Djibouti 40.9 2002
61 Turkmenistan 40.8 1998
62 Senegal 40.3 2011
63 Turkey 40.2 2010
64 Bulgaria 40.2 2017
65 Georgia 40.1 2014
66 Mali 40.1 2001
67 Tunisia 40.0 2005 est.
68 Jordan 39.7 2007
69 Uganda 39.5 2013
70 Burkina Faso 39.5 2007
71 Guinea 39.4 2007
72 Sri Lanka 39.2 2012 est.
73 Venezuela 39.0 2011
74 Bhutan 38.8 2012
75 Serbia 38.7 2014 est.
76 Maldives 38.4 2009 est.
77 Cambodia 37.9 2008 est.
78 Japan 37.9 2011
79 Yemen 37.9 2009 est.
80 Lithuania 37.9 2015
81 Tanzania 37.6 2007
82 Mauritania 37.0 2014
83 Indonesia 36.8 2009
84 Uzbekistan 36.8 2003
85 Greece 36.7 2012 est.
86 Laos 36.7 2008
87 Benin 36.5 2003
88 New Zealand 36.2 1997
89 El Salvador 36.0 2016 est.
90 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 36.0 2015
91 Mauritius 35.9 2012 est.
92 Spain 35.9 2012
93 Korea, South 35.7 2016 est.
94 Algeria 35.3 1995
95 India 35.2 2011
96 Jamaica 35.0 2016
97 Macau 35.0 2013
98 Vietnam 34.8 2014
99 Estonia 34.8 2015
100 Cyprus 34.8 2014 est.
101 West Bank 34.5 2009 est.
102 Latvia 34.5 2015
103 Sierra Leone 34.0 2011
104 Niger 34.0 2014
105 Mongolia 34.0 2017
106 Greenland 33.9 2015 est.
107 Portugal 33.9 2015 est.
108 Bosnia and Herzegovina 33.8 2011
109 Azerbaijan 33.7 2008
110 Macedonia 33.7 2015
111 Taiwan 33.6 2014
112 Kyrgyzstan 33.4 2007
113 Ethiopia 33.0 2011
114 Nepal 32.8 2010
115 Tajikistan 32.6 2006
116 United Kingdom 32.4 2012
117 Canada 32.1 2005
118 Bangladesh 32.1 2010
119 Liberia 32.0 2014
120 Montenegro 31.9 2014 est.
121 Italy 31.9 2012 est.
122 Timor-Leste 31.9 2007 est.
123 Egypt 31.8 2015
124 Armenia 31.5 2014
125 Ireland 31.3 2013 est.
126 Poland 30.8 2015
127 European Union 30.8 2016 est.
128 Sao Tome and Principe 30.8 2010 est.
129 Croatia 30.8 2015 est.
130 Pakistan 30.7 FY2013
131 Austria 30.5 2015
132 Luxembourg 30.4 2013 est.
133 Netherlands 30.3 2015 est.
134 Australia 30.3 2008
135 Switzerland 29.5 2014 est.
136 France 29.3 2016
137 Denmark 29.0 2016 est.
138 Albania 29.0 2012 est.
139 Hungary 28.2 2015 est.
140 Malta 28.1 2015
141 Iceland 28.0 2006
142 Romania 27.3 2012
143 Finland 27.2 2016
144 Germany 27.0 2006
145 Moldova 26.8 2015 est.
146 Norway 26.8 2010
147 Belarus 26.5 2011
148 Kazakhstan 26.3 2013
149 Belgium 25.9 2013 est.
150 Ukraine 25.5 2015
151 Czechia 25.0 2015
152 Sweden 24.9 2013
153 Slovenia 24.4 2016
154 Slovakia 23.7 2015
155 Kosovo 23.2 2015 est.
156 Faroe Islands 22.7 2013 est.

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But the back-end idea that we need guns in case we want a revolution is, I believe, sadly outdated. With the government tapped into private communications, and with heavy armament and crowd-control weapons on its side, I don't believe an armed citizenry will be effective, even if - or maybe especially if - the government becomes blatantly repressive.

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 7:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In practical terms, no, I don't believe that there's a political mechanism for universal gun registration.

But if we want to solve our extreme murder rate, I do believe we need to reduce the number of guns, and equally, create a society that works to more equitably benefit its members.

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
In practical terms, no, I don't believe that there's a political mechanism for universal gun registration.

But if we want to solve our extreme murder rate, I do believe we need to reduce the number of guns, and equally, create a society that works to more equitably benefit its members.



I think if you create a society that works to equitably benefit its members then the gun issue becomes moot.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 24, 2018 8:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


The biggest fault is that you have not defined "Assault Weapon" and all of the Steak Knives, screwdrivers, and Boxcutters included.

Comparing Gun Ownership to countries without a 2nd Amendment is a faulty foundation.

Comparing Murder Rates to countries without widespread psychotropic drug usage is also faulty and disingenuous. How many El Salvadorans are on Lexipro, Xanax, Risperdal?

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