REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A Message To All Trumptards:

POSTED BY: REAVERFAN
UPDATED: Thursday, February 28, 2019 20:08
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Thursday, February 21, 2019 8:28 AM

REAVERFAN


Trumptards:

The day will soon come when you'll be embarrassed to admit you voted for Trump and were stupid enough to believe all the propaganda you swallowed. It'll be worse than admitting you voted for Bush (which most Bush voters hate to do, now).

You will throw away your MAGA hat and hope no one remembers you wearing it. This burning shame will last the rest of your lives. You did it to yourselves through sheer arrogance and willful ignorance.

You're the butt of a very unfunny joke.

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


I wish you were right, but looking back at how Texas Republicans acted after Nixon resigned, I predict you are wrong. They didn't admit to bad judgment about their votes or being tricked by Tricky Dicky. It was those damn Democrats' fault for hounding a great man and patriot from office. At least that was the reaction in Texas with Republicans. (At that time there were many faux "Democrats" that were in process of becoming real Republicans. ) They felt no shame. They felt angry at Democrats, not Nixon. And they had Gerald Ford to carry on as the next GOP President. The nation didn't change directions from what Nixon steered it. When Jimmy Carter, the opposite of Nixon, became President, they hated him. When Reagan came along, he was Nixon without Nixon's centerist baggage of the Clean Air Act, affirmative action, the Environmental Protection Agency, and OSHA, they loved Reagan more than they had loved Nixon.

From www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/12/15630372/watergate-impeachment-cons
ervative-public-opinion-trump-history

The Watergate affair turned conservative skeptics of Richard Nixon into hardcore supporters, drawing out the immediate crisis and deepening divisions in the long term. Conservatives at the time refashioned the scandal into a tale of Democratic hypocrisy and media hostility — a narrative that many Republicans have adopted once again to explain away the emerging Trump scandals.

In perhaps the boldest stroke of all, when the evidence of Nixon’s wrongdoing became undeniable, the right attributed the president’s crimes to the growing institutional power of the presidency — making Watergate, in a sense, a “liberal” scandal after all.

Until the very end, Watergate gave Nixon a stature on the right that he had previously lacked. And even after Nixon’s resignation, the right never quite accepted the liberal narrative of the impeachment as a heroic moment for investigative journalism and a cleansing moment for American politics.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol. Says who, Marcos?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:51 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. Says who, Marcos?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You finally figured out who he is. Good for you!

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Trumptards:

The day will soon come when you'll be embarrassed to admit you voted for Trump and were stupid enough to believe all the propaganda you swallowed. It'll be worse than admitting you voted for Bush (which most Bush voters hate to do, now).

You will throw away your MAGA hat and hope no one remembers you wearing it. This burning shame will last the rest of your lives. You did it to yourselves through sheer arrogance and willful ignorance.

You're the butt of a very unfunny joke.



Oh, see, I don't know who you think you're posting to, and that - once again - you're arguing with the voices in your head. Because I certainly did not believe everything Trump campaigned on. I knew, and said often, that he was a loose cannon and that I disagreed with a lot of his promises.

But we were on SUCH a wrong track, with the security/ surveillance/ banking state stampeding us into full-on globalism that I wouldn't have minded if Trump brought the whole globalist structure down on his head with a thunderous crash. Look at the EU: It's killing its "integrationism" with a rapcious banking system (which behaves not unlike the IMF, but towards its own people), undemocratic bureaucracy, unfettered immigration, and rigid authoritarian liberaloid "political correctness" that prevents even verbalizing what is wrong with the system.

Sometimes, disintegration is a GOOD thing.

There is an avalanche coming, REAVERBOT. It is not of Trump's making, but has been in the works for decades. That avalanche is the collapse of the Mt Everest of debt that the banks have created, which looms over the financial system like an unstable mountainside, and the collapse of the petrodollar. We need to be able toscramble out of the way (as do other nations), not try to stop it.

I realize that you think the world will come to an end ecologically, and unless we do something REAL, we will come to an end too. Same with this coming disaster. Stop beating your dead liberal/globalist agenda. When the going get tough- ecologically as well as financially- populations break apart and isolate themselves.

Think globally, act locally.

Cue "Russian troll" in 3 ...2...1...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 1:42 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

you're arguing with the voices in your head. Because I certainly did not believe everything Trump campaigned on. I knew, and said often, that he was a loose cannon and that I disagreed with a lot of his promises.

Loose cannon or crazy? Donald Trump’s Rose Garden speech last week announcing his emergency declaration over the “crisis” at the southern border was rambling, incoherent, and unhinged: in short, everything we’ve come to expect from the 45th president of the United States. Why won’t the media discuss Trump’s mental instability?

There has never been a president quite like Trump: the all-caps tweets; his obsession with election results and crowd sizes; his bragging, his boasting, his childish point-scoring. And yet journalists treat him like a normal politician instead of stating the obvious: Donald Trump is mentally unfit for the presidency. Almost half of the country agrees.

Plenty of Republicans, including Sens. Bob Corker and Jeb Bush, have expressed concern about his mental stability. To discuss the situation and where we go from here, Mehdi Hasan is joined by Dr. Bandy X. Lee, a psychiatrist at the Yale School of Medicine, and by Trump’s biographer, David Cay Johnston.

More at https://theintercept.com/2019/02/21/why-wont-the-media-discuss-trumps-
mental-instability
/

This is not a parody of Trump declaring a national emergency on the Texas/Mexico border, it is only a speedier version of what Trump said:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

There has never been a president quite like Trump: the all-caps tweets; his obsession with election results and crowd sizes; his bragging, his boasting, his childish point-scoring. And yet journalists treat him like a normal politician instead of stating the obvious: Donald Trump is mentally unfit for the presidency. Almost half of the country agrees.
And Hillary, giggling like a little schoolgirl over We came, we saw, he died and wobbling, fainting, and grimacing her way thru her campaign ... which was run about as corruptly as any campaign ever was ... was any better?

As I've also posted many times before, on a PERSONAL level, I found the two candidates about on par, with a slight edge to Trump because he simply didn't have the time-in-office for that level of official corruption. But I'm simply more in agreement with where Trump wants this nation to go that with Hillary.

So buzz off, Hillarytard.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:33 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

As I've also posted many times before, on a PERSONAL level, I found the two candidates about on par, with a slight edge to Trump because he simply didn't have the time-in-office for that level of official corruption. But I'm simply more in agreement with where Trump wants this nation to go that with Hillary.

Signym, why would you believe him when he tells "where Trump wants this nation to go"? Trump lied many times, in great fictional detail, about how he got wealthy. Then he cheated on his taxes on the order of $400 million. Trump was earning $200,000 in today's dollars by the time he was 3 years old. And he was a millionaire by age 8. This warped his personality and it showed in all of his adult behavior.

The breadth of Trump’s controversies is huge, ranging from mafia ties to unscrupulous business dealings, from racial discrimination to marital rape. They stretch over more than four decades, from the mid-1970s to the present day. To catalogue the full sweep of allegations would require thousands of words and lump together the trivial with the truly scandalous. This is a snapshot of some of the most interesting and largest of those scandals.
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-scandals/474
726
/

Trump tax fraud
www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-fraud-fred-inheritance-millionaire-b
y-age-8-2018-10


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:50 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
....with a slight edge to Trump because he simply didn't have the time-in-office for that level of official corruption.




Well that theory got all shot to sh*t!

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Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:40 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Trumptards:

The day will soon come when you'll be embarrassed to admit you voted for Trump and were stupid enough to believe all the propaganda you swallowed. It'll be worse than admitting you voted for Bush (which most Bush voters hate to do, now).

You will throw away your MAGA hat and hope no one remembers you wearing it. This burning shame will last the rest of your lives. You did it to yourselves through sheer arrogance and willful ignorance.

You're the butt of a very unfunny joke.



I'm voting for this guy


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Thursday, February 21, 2019 6:40 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
....with a slight edge to Trump because he simply didn't have the time-in-office for that level of official corruption.




Well that theory got all shot to sh*t!



T



Why Robert Mueller Could Ask AG Barr To Indict Trump In Office


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Thursday, February 21, 2019 8:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:

I'm voting for this guy






lol Doomcock. Awwwww shit. Patriarchy up in this bitch.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 1:12 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Neener, neener, neener! I'm rubber you're glue....you forgot to mention Obama.
Isn't that in your "contract" as a card-carrying member of the Idiot Brigade?
You may lose your membership and decoder ring.

Obviously you never stop to think (ha, ha, ha I just caught myself. I actually said "think," to you. How ironic!) whenever you get one of these crazy notions. It never fails, whenever someone correctly says that Trump is not only an imbecile, but a fucking moron....you guys pull Hillary out yer ass.
Well, that shows to go ya...all of you don't have brain one among ya!

Civil discourse indeed!
(LFB = low fucking budget)


sgg


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

There has never been a president quite like Trump: the all-caps tweets; his obsession with election results and crowd sizes; his bragging, his boasting, his childish point-scoring. And yet journalists treat him like a normal politician instead of stating the obvious: Donald Trump is mentally unfit for the presidency. Almost half of the country agrees.
And Hillary, giggling like a little schoolgirl over We came, we saw, he died and wobbling, fainting, and grimacing her way thru her campaign ... which was run about as corruptly as any campaign ever was ... was any better?

As I've also posted many times before, on a PERSONAL level, I found the two candidates about on par, with a slight edge to Trump because he simply didn't have the time-in-office for that level of official corruption. But I'm simply more in agreement with where Trump wants this nation to go that with Hillary.

So buzz off, Hillarytard.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .


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Sunday, February 24, 2019 1:24 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


What's wrong with bringing up the Democrat's equal and opposite disgusting pick?

She's awful, and Obama was awful.

Trump ain't no prize. You'll find that almost everybody here admits that, even if we don't buy into Maddow's Russian conspiracy theory that is infecting your brains.


T's really the only one who admits that Hillary was shit. He's also the only one that agrees that the PC/SJW culture of the left has run amok and is the reason why you will lose again in 2020.

Ya'all had better find a message that resonates. 2020 isn't getting any further away. Running on "We're Not Trump" didn't work for you in 2016, and it ain't going to work in 2020 either.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 7:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Neener, neener, neener! I'm rubber you're glue....you forgot to mention Obama.
Isn't that in your "contract" as a card-carrying member of the Idiot Brigade?
You may lose your membership and decoder ring.

Obviously you never stop to think (ha, ha, ha I just caught myself. I actually said "think," to you. How ironic!) whenever you get one of these crazy notions. It never fails, whenever someone correctly says that Trump is not only an imbecile, but a fucking moron....you guys pull Hillary out yer ass.
Well, that shows to go ya...all of you don't have brain one among ya!

Civil discourse indeed!
(LFB = low fucking budget)

As much as you might like to put Hillary's memory in some black hole somewhere, you can't deny that she WAS the other major-party candidte in the last Presidential election! If the Democratic candidate had been at least a little more credible and not so gawd-awful, Trump might have lost. But since Hillary WAS the DNC candidate, it's perfectly valid to bring her up when discussing why people voted for who.

If the Dems run on something other than a more "kinetic" approach to Syria and on something more than identity politics and on less "welfare statism" they might win in 2020. In the meantime, the reason why Trump won wasn't because he was so fantastic (a major flaw in REAVERBOT's post) but because Hillary was so awful.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 8:27 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Neener, neener, neener! I'm rubber you're glue....you forgot to mention Obama.
Isn't that in your "contract" as a card-carrying member of the Idiot Brigade?
You may lose your membership and decoder ring.

Obviously you never stop to think (ha, ha, ha I just caught myself. I actually said "think," to you. How ironic!) whenever you get one of these crazy notions. It never fails, whenever someone correctly says that Trump is not only an imbecile, but a fucking moron....you guys pull Hillary out yer ass.
Well, that shows to go ya...all of you don't have brain one among ya!

Civil discourse indeed!
(LFB = low fucking budget)

As much as you might like to put Hillary's memory in some black hole somewhere, you can't deny that she WAS the other major-party candidte in the last Presidential election! If the Democratic candidate had been at least a little more credible and not so gawd-awful, Trump might have lost. But since Hillary WAS the DNC candidate, it's perfectly valid to bring her up when discussing why people voted for who.

If the Dems run on something other than a more "kinetic" approach to Syria and on something more than identity politics and on less "welfare statism" they might win in 2020. In the meantime, the reason why Trump won wasn't because he was so fantastic (a major flaw in REAVERBOT's post) but because Hillary was so awful.

Hillary’s awful flaw is that she is female. For major party candidates, the researchers found, the gender gap rose to around 1½ percent of the vote. “For one in ten races, this is the difference between winning and losing,” Ms King said. Except Hillary received 2.1% more of the vote than Trump, but she still lost. If only she had received 3.6% more than Trump because she switched to being male, she might have won.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2007-11-female-candidates-votes.html#jCp
www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-popular-v
ote-final-count/index.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 12:28 PM

REAVERFAN


The 6 essential cons that define Trump’s success
A playbook of deceit starts with the ‘origin lie’ that made him richer than he was. And it’s still being written.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/22/essential-cons-that-
define-trumps-success/?fbclid=IwAR2hfgGTbqXRGQfqUqps8JMCpxjBm44_tBbdvhmfYYXQlJ5kbCMjDxTJlqA&utm_term=.d87fe17ccd8f

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 12:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Trumptards:

The day will soon come when you'll be embarrassed to admit you voted for Trump and were stupid enough to believe all the propaganda you swallowed. It'll be worse than admitting you voted for Bush (which most Bush voters hate to do, now).

You will throw away your MAGA hat and hope no one remembers you wearing it. This burning shame will last the rest of your lives. You did it to yourselves through sheer arrogance and willful ignorance.

You're the butt of a very unfunny joke.




Still your President.



Learn it
Know it
Live it

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 12:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, with Trump as awful as he is (you claim) why did Hillary need that marginal 1% of voters? She should have won the election with 70% of the vote.

But she didn't. Your "analysis" of the situation is once again whackadoo from bias, as is REAVERBOT's.

There was something FUNDAMENTALLY flawed with her, with her campaign, and with her message. There were - and still are- millions of votes that Hillary tossed away by calling them and thinking of them as that "basket of deplorables".

"Deplorables"??

The DNC can't despise half of the electorate and expect to get their vote. And YOU can't despise a whole host of people and expect to get anywhere with them: They will never listen to your message when it's laced with the kind of venom that you inject into every interaction. Your hatred is quite clear (as was Hillary's) so don't keep blaming everyone and anything under the sun for your own failings (or hers).

Calling people "Trumptards" or "deplorables" or "Russian trolls" is just as off-putting as calling people "libtards".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 1:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/22/essential-cons-that-define-t
rumps-success
/

A real estate insider told me back in the 1980s that Trump’s win-at-all-costs father, Fred, “loves a crook and he loves a showman.” Donald Trump has built his extraordinary career by exhibiting the characteristics of both.

Here, in roughly chronological order, are the six essential cons around which Trump has built and sustained his success:

Con No. 1: To borrow billions, Trump lies to inflate his net worth.
He made certain that nobody could definitively counter his inflated-wealth con by ensuring that a comprehensive balance sheet could not be created by his accountants.

Con No. 2: To avoid taxes, Trump lies to deflate his net worth.
Trump’s attorneys audaciously deflate the value of his many golf courses to minimize local taxes. In his financial disclosures for the Trump National Golf Course Westchester, Trump valued the course at more than $50 million. But last year, his attorneys filed papers with the state declaring the ‘full market value’ of the course was far lower: about $1.4 million.

Con No. 3: To be a winner, Trump makes losers of those he does business with.
While most Americans expect to do what they promise in a signed contract, Trump sees contracts as mere jumping-off points for “negotiation.” Knowing that litigation is costly and can drag on for years, Trump’s business modus operandi for stiffed contractors has been, “You can negotiate with my lawyers for a settlement or sue me and see how long that takes!”

Con No. 4: To win in politics, Trump makes voters believe that his presidency benefits them.
That Trump frequently lies about something he himself has been recorded saying in the recent past makes no difference to his base.

Con No. 5: To avoid accountability, Trump makes the media, and truth, the “enemy of the people.”
When Trump insists on his own invented ‘facts,’ he makes reality-based political dialogue impossible.

Con No. 6: To stoke fear, Trump recasts perpetrators as victims.
“The Democrats,” Trump warned last October, “will open our borders to deadly drugs and ruthless gangs. The Democrats — and I say this — and I've dealt with it — the Democrats are the party of crime.” The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 1:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/22/essential-cons-that-define-t
rumps-success
/

A real estate insider told me back in the 1980s that Trump’s win-at-all-costs father, Fred, “loves a crook and he loves a showman.” Donald Trump has built his extraordinary career by exhibiting the characteristics of both.

Here, in roughly chronological order, are the six essential cons around which Trump has built and sustained his success:

Con No. 1: To borrow billions, Trump lies to inflate his net worth.
He made certain that nobody could definitively counter his inflated-wealth con by ensuring that a comprehensive balance sheet could not be created by his accountants.

Con No. 2: To avoid taxes, Trump lies to deflate his net worth.
Trump’s attorneys audaciously deflate the value of his many golf courses to minimize local taxes. In his financial disclosures for the Trump National Golf Course Westchester, Trump valued the course at more than $50 million. But last year, his attorneys filed papers with the state declaring the ‘full market value’ of the course was far lower: about $1.4 million.

Con No. 3: To be a winner, Trump makes losers of those he does business with.
While most Americans expect to do what they promise in a signed contract, Trump sees contracts as mere jumping-off points for “negotiation.” Knowing that litigation is costly and can drag on for years, Trump’s business modus operandi for stiffed contractors has been, “You can negotiate with my lawyers for a settlement or sue me and see how long that takes!”

Con No. 4: To win in politics, Trump makes voters believe that his presidency benefits them.
That Trump frequently lies about something he himself has been recorded saying in the recent past makes no difference to his base.

Con No. 5: To avoid accountability, Trump makes the media, and truth, the “enemy of the people.”
When Trump insists on his own invented ‘facts,’ he makes reality-based political dialogue impossible.

Con No. 6: To stoke fear, Trump recasts perpetrators as victims.
“The Democrats,” Trump warned last October, “will open our borders to deadly drugs and ruthless gangs. The Democrats — and I say this — and I've dealt with it — the Democrats are the party of crime.” The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Jeez, you missed the message, again.

If Trump is so terrible, why did Hillary lose the election?

There is a 30% dyed-in-the-wool GOP vote. What happened t the other 70%? Why weren't they "with her" en masse? Clearly, Hillary lost a lot of independent voters and not a few Democrats too.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 2:43 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Jeez, you missed the message, again.

If Trump is so terrible, why did Hillary lose the election?

There is a 30% dyed-in-the-wool GOP vote. What happened t the other 70%? Why weren't they "with her" en masse? Clearly, Hillary lost a lot of independent voters and not a few Democrats too.

1) With the Texan Trump voters, I found NOT EVEN ONE who was aware before the election that Trump sees contracts as mere jumping-off points for “negotiation.” Knowing that litigation is costly and can drag on for years, Trump’s business modus operandi for stiffed contractors has been, “You can negotiate with my lawyers for a settlement or sue me and see how long that takes!”
www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/22/essential-cons-that-define-t
rumps-success
/

2) With the Texas Trump voters, I found EVER SINGLE ONE OF THEM was certain Hillary murdered the Americans that died in Benghazi. NONE OF THEM were aware that despite persistent accusations against Obama, Hillary, and Susan Rice, ten investigations — six by Republican-controlled congressional committees — did not find that they or any other high-ranking Obama administration officials had acted improperly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

I would guess that Texas Trump voters were willfully blind about 1) and 2). I haven't surveyed why people who voted for Trump failed to know about 1) and 2), but I have seen a great number other spectacular personal failures among Trump voters, failures unconnected to politics. I can only speculate because I can't see into their souls, but I'm pretty sure they used the same brain to decide to vote for Trump and to make those spectacularly bad personal decisions that caused death, divorce, bankruptcy, or arrest since Trump was elected. For example: the next door neighbors. Two are dead and the third in jail since June of 2018. All of them Trump voters, all of them defending Trump until they died or were arrested. I don't know if Levi is still a strong Trump supporter. I haven't visited him in jail. The house is for sale. Yesterday and Friday there was an estate sale.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 3:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Your focus is on the voters that Trump won. I think it should be on the voters Hillary lost.
Quote:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/omribenshahar/2016/11/17/the-non-voters-w
ho-decided-the-election-trump-won-because-of-lower-democratic-turnout/#70caa2af53ab


An astonishing spectacle of the election aftermath is the false account of why Trump won. The accepted wisdom is that Trump succeeded in awakening a popular movement of anger and frustration among white, blue-collar, less educated, mostly male, voters, particularly in non-urban areas. Trump promised them jobs, safe borders, and dignity, and they responded by turning out in masses at his pre-election rallies and eventually at the ballots, carrying him to victory.

This story is mostly wrong. Trump did not win because he was more attractive to this base of white voters. He won because Hillary Clinton was less attractive to the traditional Democratic base of urban, minorities, and more educated voters. This is a profound fact, because Democratic voters were so extraordinarily repelled by Trump that they were supposed to have the extra motivation to turn out. Running against Trump, any Democratic candidate should have ridden a wave of anti-Trump sentiment among these voters. It therefore took a strong distaste for Hillary Clinton among the Democratic base to not only undo this wave, but to lose many additional liberal votes.
...
Take Michigan for example. A state that Obama won in 2012 by 350,000 votes, Clinton lost by roughly 10,000. Why? She received 300,000 votes less than Obama did in 2012. Detroit and Wayne County should kick themselves because of the 595,253 votes they gave Obama in 2012, only 518,000 voted for Clinton in 2016. More than 75,000 Motown Obama voters did not bother to vote for Clinton. They did not become Trump voters – Trump received only 10,000 votes more than Romney did in this county. They simply stayed at home. If even a fraction of these lethargic Democrats had turned out to vote, Michigan would have stayed blue.



read the rest of the story at the link



And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 3:27 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Your focus is on the voters that Trump won. I think it should be on the voters Hillary lost.

Barack Obama/Joe Biden (2012) – 65,915,795
Hillary Clinton/Tim Kaine (2016) – 65,853,625
Fewer votes for Hillary than for Obama 62,170

I am not seeing that huge lose of voters for Hillary that you are seeing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Barack_Obama
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Hillary_Clinton

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 3:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hillary lost because she lost critical democratic votes scattered across states she needed in order to win the electoral college, though she had 'excess' votes in CA and NY.

You would have understood that if you had bothered to read 3 measly paragraphs. And if you had kept in mind that the national popular vote doesn't elect the president, the electoral college does.




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 4:14 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hillary lost because she lost critical democratic votes scattered across states she needed in order to win the electoral college, though she had 'excess' votes in CA and NY.

You would have understood that if you had bothered to read 3 measly paragraphs. And if you had kept in mind that the national popular vote doesn't elect the president, the electoral college does.

Who are you kidding about you understanding?

In Pennsylvania, with 20 electoral votes
Trump got 48.2%
Hillary got 47.5%
It is very peculiar that 48.2% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Apparently, Pennsylvania has never heard of runoff elections when nobody gets a majority.

In Michigan, with 16 electoral votes
Trump got 47.3%
Hillary got 47.0%
It is extremely peculiar that 47.3% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Runoff election, anyone?

In Wisconsin, with 10 electoral votes
Trump got 47.2%
Hillary got 46.5%
How does 47.2% win 100% of the electoral votes?

In Florida, with 29 electoral votes
Trump got 48.6%
Hillary got 47.4%
Since when is not getting at least 50% will still get Trump 100% of the electoral votes?

If you go through the whole map, nobody got 50% in most of the states. But somebody got 100% of the electoral votes without any runoffs in any state. This is a seriously strange way to run a Democracy. Maybe bills should pass in Congress with less than 50% of the vote? Maybe Supreme Court decisions should be made with less than 50% of the vote?

www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/president

One more: In Utah, Trump gets 45.1% of the popular vote. He gets 100% of the electoral vote. Nice and fair.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 6:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Who are you kidding about you understanding?

In Pennsylvania, with 20 electoral votes ... It is very peculiar that 48.2% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Apparently, Pennsylvania has never heard of runoff elections when nobody gets a majority.

In Michigan, with 16 electoral votes ... It is extremely peculiar that 47.3% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Runoff election, anyone?

In Wisconsin, with 10 electoral votes ... How does 47.2% win 100% of the electoral votes?

In Florida, with 29 electoral votes ... Since when is not getting at least 50% will still get Trump 100% of the electoral votes?

If you go through the whole map, nobody got 50% in most of the states. But somebody got 100% of the electoral votes without any runoffs in any state. This is a seriously strange way to run a Democracy. Maybe bills should pass in Congress with less than 50% of the vote? Maybe Supreme Court decisions should be made with less than 50% of the vote?

One more: In Utah, Trump gets 45.1% of the popular vote. He gets 100% of the electoral vote. Nice and fair.

Maybe you can point out to me where in the Constitution it states a candidate needs to get 50%+ of the popular vote to win. In the meantime, stop whining to me about it. I didn't write it and I can't change it.




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Sunday, February 24, 2019 7:45 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Who are you kidding about you understanding?

In Pennsylvania, with 20 electoral votes ... It is very peculiar that 48.2% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Apparently, Pennsylvania has never heard of runoff elections when nobody gets a majority.

In Michigan, with 16 electoral votes ... It is extremely peculiar that 47.3% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Runoff election, anyone?

In Wisconsin, with 10 electoral votes ... How does 47.2% win 100% of the electoral votes?

In Florida, with 29 electoral votes ... Since when is not getting at least 50% will still get Trump 100% of the electoral votes?

If you go through the whole map, nobody got 50% in most of the states. But somebody got 100% of the electoral votes without any runoffs in any state. This is a seriously strange way to run a Democracy. Maybe bills should pass in Congress with less than 50% of the vote? Maybe Supreme Court decisions should be made with less than 50% of the vote?

One more: In Utah, Trump gets 45.1% of the popular vote. He gets 100% of the electoral vote. Nice and fair.

Maybe you can point out to me where in the Constitution it states a candidate needs to get 50%+ of the popular vote to win. In the meantime, stop whining to me about it. I didn't write it and I can't change it.

You are making the argument that the Federal Constitution lets states run their elections anyway they please. There have been a hundred Supreme Court cases about States screwing their voters out of their votes with different schemes. There will be more cases. You refused to entertain the idea that never having a runoff election for President is unfair. It is easy to show how pathological it is to never have a runoff: Take a state with 5 million plus 1 voters and 5 candidates for President, Ohio as an example. If each candidate gets a million votes except one candidate gets a million plus one, that candidate wins 100% of the electoral votes, despite only receiving 20% of the popular vote. If there was 10 people running for President in Ohio, it is possible that the winner could have only 10% of the popular vote. Nice system, but not even remotely a Representative Democracy.

I'm okay with it. I wouldn't vote for Trump, but the system gave me a multi-million dollar tax cut, per year, that I could never have gotten from Hillary. It also transfers $1.5 trillion to the richest 1% of the American population. Good for me! Too bad for you.
www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/10/16/blame-republican-tax-cuts-so
aring-federal-deficits-column/1657338002
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 25, 2019 2:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, you're an idiot and dishonest.

The Electoral College is a documented compromise which allowed the Constitution to be ratified. It had nothing to do with long and uncertain travel times and everything to do with states' rights and (believe it or not) reducing the influence of political parties.

You trivialize the thought that went into this by portraying it as the Constitution letting states run their elections "any way they please". That's not so.

Maybe you don't like the process. Maybe you don't the result.


But why dont you learn some history before you go ignorantly mouthing off?

https://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/INFORMATION/electcollege_histo
ry.php


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, February 25, 2019 2:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


On top of that, why don't Democrats remember to bring up the Electoral College when they actually win.

It's a proven fact. Go back in history and see that they never once bring it up after a Democrat wins president.

8 years of Obama, and nobody talked about it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 25, 2019 7:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND,
. . . why dont you learn some history before you go ignorantly mouthing off?

All four leading candidates in the 1824 election were from the same party, the Democratic-Republicans. Though Jackson got the most electoral votes (99) and held a slight lead (38,149 votes) in the popular vote, no candidate received a majority in the Electoral College, and the decision again fell to the House of Representatives, who would decide between the top three finishers, Jackson, John Quincy Adams (who received 84 electoral votes) and Secretary of State William Crawford.

Speaker of the House Henry Clay, who had come in fourth in the presidential race and hated Jackson, suddenly had tremendous influence over the election results. The Kentuckian forged an alliance between electors in Ohio and New England (including states that had voted decisively for Jackson) in order to hand the White House to Adams, who later appointed Clay as his secretary of state. The so-called “corrupt bargain” haunted Adams’ presidency and allowed Jackson to effectively market himself as the common man’s champion against an elitist, corrupt system. “Old Hickory” won the White House in 1828, and in his first annual message to Congress he recommended eliminating the Electoral College.

Since then, four other U.S. presidential elections (1876, 1888, 2000 and 2016) have ended with a candidate winning the Electoral College but losing the popular vote. This is a disconnect between the democratic ideal of the people playing a direct role in government and the reality of the system in practice.

More at www.history.com/news/the-history-of-the-electoral-college-debate

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 25, 2019 7:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
On top of that, why don't Democrats remember to bring up the Electoral College when they actually win.

It's a proven fact. Go back in history and see that they never once bring it up after a Democrat wins president.

8 years of Obama, and nobody talked about it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

It is a proven fact that the Democrats have, but the Republicans block it. There is a way around GOP obstructions in Congress. The Democrats went to the states to modify state election laws, since GOP won't allow modifying national election laws.

The prospects for the National Popular Vote effort strike me as realistic, with 172 of the needed 270 Electoral College votes already secured and 89 more having passed at least one legislative chamber in 11 other states. It takes only 270 Electoral Votes to win the Presidency. A group of states with a total of at least 270 Electoral Votes change their laws to a winner-take-all system where all the electoral votes in those states go to the candidate with the most votes in the Nation.

The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes. The shortcomings of the current system of electing the President stem from state winner-take-all statutes (i.e., state laws that award all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate receiving the most popular votes in each separate state). How it works is explained here: www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

A complete solution would be to have runoff elections for President if no candidate receives 50% of the National vote. The GOP won't allow that to become law. All over the world, there are runoff elections for the highest office, but not in the USA. Instead, the Constitution throws the election into the House of Representatives for a decision. https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-Coll
ege
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 25, 2019 9:32 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I don't remember Obama ever bringing up the Electoral College issue.

Do any of you guys and gals remember Obama ever bringing up the Electoral College issue?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 25, 2019 10:53 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't remember Obama ever bringing up the Electoral College issue.

Do any of you guys and gals remember Obama ever bringing up the Electoral College issue?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Personally, I think Obama should have trashed that motherfucking Trump's ass, but Obama decided to be dignified and Presidential and not give a briefing to the Electoral College about Trump and Russia:

But on the recent upswing in Democratic calls to abolish the electoral vote and move towards a strict popular vote to decide the president, Mr. Obama cautioned his party against blaming the Electoral College entirely.

Poll: More Americans believe popular vote should decide the president

“If we look for one explanation, or one silver bullet or one easy fix for our politics, then we’re probably going to be disappointed,” he said. “There’s just a lot of factors in what’s happened - not just over the last few months but over the last decade that’s made both politics and governance more challenging.”

Pressed on whether he would allow electors to receive an intelligence briefing on Russian hacking into the U.S. election (an idea supported by the Clinton campaign), Mr. Obama seemed to shoot down the possibility.

“It is not my job to decide my successor,” he said. “I have provided people with a lot of information about what happened during the course of the election -- but more importantly, the candidates have talked about their beliefs and their vision for America.”

www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-press-conference-the-president-electoral-co
llege-debate
/

I'm trying to think of word to describe what Obama did about Trump. I settled on the word Pusillanimous. I would have stomped Trump if I were President Obama, making Trump wish he had never been born and, more importantly, unable to perform his duties as President because Obama had cut off Trump's balls and made him eat them on live TV, metaphorically speaking. That's why I am not President.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 25, 2019 11:20 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol. December of 2016. WTF?

TOO LATE!

Thank you for proving my point, yet again, Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 25, 2019 11:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. December of 2016. WTF?

TOO LATE!

Thank you for proving my point, yet again, Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If your point is that Obama is too polite, you have a point. If your point is that Obama will always back down from a fight, even when he should fight to death, you have a point. As for me, I have actually bounced the heads of several Republicans on hard surfaces to remind them forcefully to not lie to me ever again or I will break their skulls. It worked, too, but that is why I am not President and why Obama got elected. He is too nice. He is too non-confrontational. But it is wise on his part because he had zero power over GOP controlled state legislatures changing how the Electoral College works:

In 2012, from Wisconsin to Pennsylvania, Republicans who control legislatures in states that supported President Barack Obama are considering changing laws that give the winner of a state's popular vote all of its Electoral College votes, too. They instead want Electoral College votes to be divided proportionally, a move that could transform the way the country elects its president.

Republican state legislators, governors and veteran political strategists are seriously considering making the shift as the GOP looks to rebound from presidential candidate Mitt Romney's Electoral College shellacking.

So far, Republicans have only advocated for the change in states that have supported Democrats in recent elections. The view is predictably different in states where the Republican nominee is a cinch to win.

www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-want-to-change-laws-on-electoral-
college-votes-after-presidential-losses


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 25, 2019 3:24 PM

REAVERFAN


Posted byu/BuckRowdy
Fake Gnus1 hour ago
Agnotology is a culturally induced lack of knowledge -- a conscious absence of pertinent knowledge -- and it's one of Fox News' main propaganda tools. Example in comments.
There's lots of ways in which Fox News propagandizes its viewers. One tactic is through editorial decisions. What they decide not to cover is frequently more important than what they decide to cover and spin.

When every other news outlet has the news that Paul Manafort gave the Russians campaign polling data, but Fox has a story on the value of rare pennies, they are in fact cultivating ignorance in their viewers.

One other way Fox News persuades their audience is through a process called Agnotology.

Agnotology is for when you want to cover a story, not omit it, but you want to use that story to cultivate ignorance in your audience. It's for when you want to construct ignorance.

This video of Tomi Lahren is a prime example.
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/920599325356552192

Why were NFL players kneeling during the national anthem? According to Tomi and Fox, no one knows, even though the players had been crystal clear about the fact it was a protest against police brutality and violence towards African Americans since the beginning of the movement.

Failing to include that information and to instead propose that if you ask 100 players you'll get 100 different answers divorces the kneeling from it's meaning and communicates to the Fox audience that there is no meaning behind the protest, they simply must hate America and the troops.

It sows doubt and uncertainty in the minds of the audience and it's one of the main tools in the Fox toolbox and it cultivates outrage.

Recognizing bad faith arguments is of paramount importance so we can avoid falling into the trap of debating bad faith actors with good faith arguments. Many bad faith arguments are designed to get you to waste your time and it's not productive to engage in them.

When engaging in discussion on forums like reddit, it's important to recognize the tactics that are being used against you so that you can more effectively combat them.

To that end, I would like to introduce you to a series that is, in my opinion, essential viewing.

The Alt-Right Playbook by Innuendo Studios



The video series sees to explain the rhetoric and debate strategies employed by those on the right. To be fair, it does indicate that other groups use these strategies, but they are most often used by right wingers. There is not a more important video series on this topic right now. It's a must-watch.

Here are some other pertinent resources on bad faith arguments.

*A Field Guide to Bad Faith Arguments.
https://medium.com/s/story/a-field-guide-to-bad-faith-arguments-7-terr
ible-arguments-in-your-mentions-ee4f194afbc9


*The Art of Being Right
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Being_Right

*Choosing to bear false witness as a tactic.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2008/09/08/false-witnesses/

*'Sea-Lioning' - intrusive attempts at engaging an unwilling debate opponent by feigning civility and incessantly requesting evidence to back up their claims. Designed to waste your time.

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Monday, February 25, 2019 7:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. December of 2016. WTF?

TOO LATE!

Thank you for proving my point, yet again, Second.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If your point is that Obama is too polite, you have a point. If your point is that Obama will always back down from a fight, even when he should fight to death, you have a point. As for me, I have actually bounced the heads of several Republicans on hard surfaces to remind them forcefully to not lie to me ever again or I will break their skulls. It worked, too, but that is why I am not President and why Obama got elected. He is too nice. He is too non-confrontational. But it is wise on his part because he had zero power over GOP controlled state legislatures changing how the Electoral College works:

In 2012, from Wisconsin to Pennsylvania, Republicans who control legislatures in states that supported President Barack Obama are considering changing laws that give the winner of a state's popular vote all of its Electoral College votes, too. They instead want Electoral College votes to be divided proportionally, a move that could transform the way the country elects its president.

Republican state legislators, governors and veteran political strategists are seriously considering making the shift as the GOP looks to rebound from presidential candidate Mitt Romney's Electoral College shellacking.

So far, Republicans have only advocated for the change in states that have supported Democrats in recent elections. The view is predictably different in states where the Republican nominee is a cinch to win.

www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-want-to-change-laws-on-electoral-
college-votes-after-presidential-losses


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Yeah. Polite. That's it.

That's why he didn't bring it up once in 8 years before the 2016 election.

Sure.


We've had to hear about Russia from the MSM every single goddanmed day for the last two years now.


Why did nobody in the MSM bring up the Electoral college between 2008 or 2016 either?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 25, 2019 8:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Who are you kidding about you understanding?

In Pennsylvania, with 20 electoral votes ... It is very peculiar that 48.2% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Apparently, Pennsylvania has never heard of runoff elections when nobody gets a majority.

In Michigan, with 16 electoral votes ... It is extremely peculiar that 47.3% means Trump got 100% of the electoral votes. Runoff election, anyone?

In Wisconsin, with 10 electoral votes ... How does 47.2% win 100% of the electoral votes?

In Florida, with 29 electoral votes ... Since when is not getting at least 50% will still get Trump 100% of the electoral votes?

If you go through the whole map, nobody got 50% in most of the states. But somebody got 100% of the electoral votes without any runoffs in any state. This is a seriously strange way to run a Democracy. Maybe bills should pass in Congress with less than 50% of the vote? Maybe Supreme Court decisions should be made with less than 50% of the vote?

One more: In Utah, Trump gets 45.1% of the popular vote. He gets 100% of the electoral vote. Nice and fair.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Maybe you can point out to me where in the Constitution it states a candidate needs to get 50%+ of the popular vote to win. In the meantime, stop whining to me about it. I didn't write it and I can't change it.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You are making the argument that the Federal Constitution lets states run their elections anyway they please.

If you re-read my very brief post, I don't think you'll find a mention of states anywhere in it. You're not really addressing my post, which is about the Electoral College https://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/2/essays/80/electora
l-college
. No, you're just using a dishonest tactic called strawmanning in order to shift the argument off the FACT that the AUTHORITY of the ELECTORAL COLLEGE is enshrined in the CONSTITUTION - and argument you lost - and onto another incoherent rant.




And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 12:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
If you re-read my very brief post, I don't think you'll find a mention of states anywhere in it. You're not really addressing my post, which is about the Electoral College

No, you're just using a dishonest tactic called strawmanning in order to shift the argument off the FACT that the AUTHORITY of the ELECTORAL COLLEGE is enshrined in the CONSTITUTION - and argument you lost - and onto another incoherent rant.

1kiki, you aren't remembering a damn thing from school, but I will summarize it for you.

The Constitution allows the states to pick any system they please to choose a President. These are some you forgot:

1) Electoral votes are proportional to the popular votes each candidate received within the state.

2) Electoral votes are proportional to the popular votes in all 50 states taken together, rather than 1 state. www.nationalpopularvote.com

3) Electoral votes go 100% to one candidate. The most common, but not the only system.

4) Electoral votes go to the Presidential candidate that the legislature picks, which is the same way elections for Senators once ran.
www.archives.gov/legislative/features/17th-amendment

5) There are other combinations that have existed in the states:
a) only white votes are counted
b) only votes from those owning real estate are counted
c) only votes from poll tax payers are counted
d) only votes from those who pass a literacy test are counted
e) only votes from males are counted
f) only votes from non-felons are counted
https://felonvoting.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000649

The Constitution lets each State devise its own unique method, no matter how weird or eccentric but with one limitation, to pick Electors to the Electoral College:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constit
ution#Clause_2:_Method_of_choosing_electors


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 1:12 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons ...
Note to self - no popular vote for President.
Quote:

And they (meaning the Electors) shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each ...
Note to self - still no popular vote for President.
Quote:

... which List they (meaning the Electors) shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted.
Note to self - no popular vote for President here either.
Quote:

The Person having the greatest Number of Votes (meaning of the Electors) shall be the President ...
Quote:

if there be more than one who have such Majority ...
Quote:

then the House of Representatives
No popular vote here either.
Quote:

shall immediately chuse by Ballot
Quote:

if no Person have a Majority ... said House shall in like Manner chuse the President.
Quote:

In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President ...
I think SECOND is going to be pissed to find out that, that despite all the ranting about how Electoral votes should being ratioed on popular votes, there's no room in the Constitution for a popular presidential vote at all.






And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 7:33 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

I think SECOND is going to be pissed to find out that, that despite all the ranting about how Electoral votes should being ratioed on popular votes, there's no room in the Constitution for a popular presidential vote at all.

1kiki, all you are doing is repeating over and over that the Constitution lets the state legislatures use whatever arbitrary methods they please to decide who becomes President since the legislatures, not the voters, are freely deciding who the Electors are to the Electoral College. The point has always been that Madison realized he had made a grotesque mistake when drafting the Constitution, but he only realized the mistake after he saw the Electoral College in action.

In 1823, Madison wrote a remarkable letter to George Hay explaining his views of the Electoral College, his strong opposition to states voting as winner-take-all blocs and his view of the origins of the winner-take-all rule.
More about what Madison did wrong, written by Madison, here: www.fairvote.org/why-james-madison-wanted-to-change-the-way-we-vote-fo
r-president


Somewhere I saw a cartoon of Trump traveling backward in time to the Constitutional Convention. He was expecting to be praised by the Founding Fathers. Discovering that fat, foolish lout Trump had been elected President, Madison, Jefferson, and Washington beat him with walking sticks than stomped him to death with their boots. They resolved to not include the Electoral College in the Constitution, since the College did not function as intended to evaluate the Presidential candidates, select a winner, and keep louts or fools out of the White House, thus changing Constitutional history.

According to Hamilton in The Federalist Papers, the electors would be:

...men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.

Such men would be "most likely to have the information and discernment" to make a good choice and to avoid the election of anyone "not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications." (Trump is NOT endowed with the requisite qualifications shown here www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-sc
hemes-fred-trump.html
)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._68#Federalist_No._68_outl
ined


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 10:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I think we can classify SECOND's posts about theElectoral College as "wishing out loud that the Constitution was different, so that Trump would never have been elected".

It doesn't seem to rise to the level of advocating a Constitutional amendment, but is more in lime with rewriting history in a vain attempt to rewrite history.

Or, are you advocating for a Constitutional amendment, SECOND? I haven't been following your posts, have you made a specific proposal?

If you hvae, can you repeat it? That way we can discuss the pros and cons of your suggestion.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:21 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think we can classify SECOND's posts about theElectoral College as "wishing out loud that the Constitution was different, so that Trump would never have been elected".

It doesn't seem to rise to the level of advocating a Constitutional amendment, but is more in lime with rewriting history in a vain attempt to rewrite history.

Or, are you advocating for a Constitutional amendment, SECOND? I haven't been following your posts, have you made a specific proposal?

There is already legislation passed in several states to turn the Electoral College into a machine that always selects a President with the most popular votes. This lists the states:
www.nationalpopularvote.com

There was a system that lasted 150 years where Senators were selected by the state legislatures. It took the 17th amendment to dismantle that and replace it with one where a Senator is selected by popular vote. A similar amendment could make the President selected by popular vote. It would be simple in theory, but impossible in practice, to pass that amendment so long as 34 Senators are Republican. The GOP understands how the Electoral College now works in their favor. That's how the GOP got Bush and Trump, both losers of the popular vote, as Presidents. The GOP will stand immovably against an amendment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_Stat
es_Constitution



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 4:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, again, just OOC - since Hillary and her campaign knows who the Electoral College works, why didn't she craft a message that would resonate with "flyover America"? Or, at least, NOT call them that "basket of deplorables"? I mean, we all gagged on Mitt Romney's

Quote:

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney said in the video. "All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what.

"And I mean the president starts out with 48, 49 percent … he starts off with a huge number," Romney continued. "These are people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.

That broad dismissal of almost half of American knocked him out of the running right there.

Why can't you admit that Hillary made a huge mistake, and that it cost her the election? (That, and that she's a warmonger who corrupted her stay as Scy State with an email scandal, and that the DNC ran roughshod over Bernie in an effort to crown her, and that she came across as not caring at all about America but simply appealed to identity-politics victims groups?)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 6:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Why can't you admit that Hillary made a huge mistake, and that it cost her the election? (That, and that she's a warmonger who corrupted her stay as Scy State with an email scandal, and that the DNC ran roughshod over Bernie in an effort to crown her, and that she came across as not caring at all about America but simply appealed to identity-politics victims groups?)

Hillary beat Bernie by more than she beat Trump. If Bernie couldn’t get enough Democrats to vote for him, how does he beat Trump?

In the primary,
Hillary Clinton 16,849,779
Bernie Sanders 13,167,848
Difference 3,681,931

Hillary Clinton 65,853,625
Donald Trump 62,985,106
Difference 2,868,519

The GOP will have a disinformation campaign for 2020, much like the one in 2016 used to drown out Trump's past:

Clinton emails. Trump admitting sexual assault. Clinton emails. Trump charity fraud. Clinton emails. Trump calls for nuclear proliferation. Clinton emails. Trump calls for national stop and frisk. Clinton emails. Trump violates trade embargo with Cuba. Clinton emails. Trump sued over Trump U fraud. Clinton emails. Trump bribes DA. Clinton emails. Trump doesnt pay taxes for 20 years. Clinton emails. Trump employs campaign manager involved in illegal corruption with Russia. Clinton emails. Trump calls for ban of an entire religion from entering US. Clinton emails. Trump lied about support for Iraq War over and over in debate. Clinton emails. Trump in court for rape of a minor. Clinton emails. Trump unaware of Russia's Crimea occupation. Clinton emails. Trump unaware of situation in Syria. Clinton emails. Trump penalized for racist housing discrimination. Clinton emails. Trump files for bankrupcy 6 times. Clinton emails. Trump goes 0-3 in debates by showing scant knowledge of world politics. Clinton emails. Trump slams people for being POWs. Clinton emails. Trump calls mexicans rapists. Clinton emails. Trump questions judge's integrity because of parent's heritage. Clinton emails. Trump deletes emails involved in casino scandal. Clinton emails. Trump commits insurance fraud after florida hurricane. Clinton emails. Trump has dozens of assault victims and witnesses come forward with allegations of abuse. Clinton emails. Trump attacks former Ms America for being overweight. Clinton emails. Trump tweets about sex tapes at 3am. Clinton emails. Trump calls for US citizens to be sent to Gitmo. Clinton emails. Trump calls for more extreme forms of torture to be used. Clinton emails. Trump asks why cant we use our nukes if we have them. Clinton emails. Trump calls for offensive bombing attack on sovereign nations because someone gave the middle finger. Clinton emails. Trump calls to kill women and children of suspected terrorists. Clinton emails. Trump says women should be punished for having abortions. Clinton emails. Trump makes fun of disabled people. Clinton emails. Trump calls for end of freedom of the press. Clinton emails. Trump calls global warming a Chinese hoax. Clinton emails. Trump praises Putin and Kim Jong Un's strong leadership. Clinton emails. Trump openly admits to not paying his employees during debate. Clinton emails. Trump calls Obama an illegitimate noncitizen hundreds of times over 7 years. Clinton emails. Trump uses campaign donations to enrich his own businesses. Clinton emails. Trump says Ted Cruz involved in JFK assassination unironically citing National Enquirer. Clinton emails. Trump says laziness is an inherent trait in black people. Clinton emails.
http://ginmar.livejournal.com/2554327.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 9:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, I noticed that you didn't address my main point, and only one of four ancillary points. Your post: not worth replying to in detail

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 10:39 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, I noticed that you didn't address my main point, and only one of four ancillary points. Your post: not worth replying to in detail

You use that excuse All. The. Time. You have so many "points", all of them dull, all of them missing the target. You're expecting me to overcome decades of your misunderstanding American politics. That's work you have got to do on yourself. Nobody is gonna do it for you. If they tried, everybody knows they are wasting their time. You'll just go back to the same old opinions you have held for years, opinions that never worked in reality and never will. Do you remember that you think you can sue me? You need to test that opinion against reality. Prove that your opinion will work. Call a lawyer. File the suit. Discover that your opinion is incorrect. I would file the lawsuit for you, but if I did, you wouldn't learn anything from my failure. You have to try.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The point has always been that Madison realized he had made a grotesque mistake when drafting the Constitution, but he only realized the mistake after he saw the Electoral College in action.

Your argument is with the other 38 people who ratified the Constitution - besides Madison, that is, in deference to his hindsight ...

... unless you're telling me that Madison was the sole author of, and authorized signatory to, the entire US Constitution.

In which case - what a guy!



(I'm curious if you realize what an idiot you're making of yourself as you endlessly whinge about the illegitimacy of the electoral college.)




tic tac

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Wednesday, February 27, 2019 7:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The point has always been that Madison realized he had made a grotesque mistake when drafting the Constitution, but he only realized the mistake after he saw the Electoral College in action.

Your argument is with the other 38 people who ratified the Constitution - besides Madison, that is, in deference to his hindsight ...

... unless you're telling me that Madison was the sole author of, and authorized signatory to, the entire US Constitution.

In which case - what a guy!



(I'm curious if you realize what an idiot you're making of yourself as you endlessly whinge about the illegitimacy of the electoral college.)

1kiki, would you be one of those who see no reason for Senators to be chosen by popular vote because the previous system gives you the results you want? But are you aware that the 17th amendment changed Senate elections? Once upon a time, the state legislatures picked the Senators. The 17th amendment was passed 100 years ago because the previous selection process was malfunctioning at the state level, at least in some person's opinion. Then there was the 19th amendment, also 100 years ago, which over-rides a voting system that was malfunctioning at the state level. I know many angry Republicans in Texas are still incensed by that change in how Presidents are selected. They didn't see any need to change that or the Electoral College.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_State
s_Constitution


Oh, and don't get a Texas Republican started on the 15th amendment. The Obama for President amendment. www.history.com/topics/black-history/fifteenth-amendment

Ask any Trump voting Texan if Obama was a legitimate President. He was not because he was born in Africa. Trump himself, however, had not until Friday publicly said he believes Obama was born in the US. And asked recently about his role in promoting the racially charged smear, Trump went uncharacteristically mum. "I don't talk about it because if I talk about that, your whole thing will be about that," he told reporters last week. "So I don't talk about it." Not all Texas Trump voters believe Trump changed his mind. He only said it because of the failing NYTimes and their fake news demanded he pretend to change his opinion.
www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/donald-trump-birther/index.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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