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The Coddling of the American Mind

POSTED BY: RUE
UPDATED: Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:42
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Friday, March 22, 2019 6:34 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


please find and read the entire article at https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind

from The Atlantic by way of getpocket


Quote:

The Coddling of the American Mind

In the name of emotional well-being, college students are increasingly demanding protection from words and ideas they don’t like. Here’s why that’s disastrous for education—and mental health.


Something strange is happening at America’s colleges and universities. A movement is arising, undirected and driven largely by students, to scrub campuses clean of words, ideas, and subjects that might cause discomfort or give offense. Last December, Jeannie Suk wrote in an online article for The New Yorker about law students asking her fellow professors at Harvard not to teach rape law—or, in one case, even use the word violate (as in “that violates the law”) lest it cause students distress. In February, Laura Kipnis, a professor at Northwestern University, wrote an essay in The Chronicle of Higher Education describing a new campus politics of sexual paranoia—and was then subjected to a long investigation after students who were offended by the article and by a tweet she’d sent filed Title IX complaints against her. In June, a professor protecting himself with a pseudonym wrote an essay for Vox describing how gingerly he now has to teach. “I’m a Liberal Professor, and My Liberal Students Terrify Me,” the headline said.

This new climate is slowly being institutionalized, and is affecting what can be said in the classroom, even as a basis for discussion.

The current movement is largely about emotional well-being. ... it presumes an extraordinary fragility of the collegiate psyche, and therefore elevates the goal of protecting students from psychological harm. The ultimate aim, it seems, is to turn campuses into “safe spaces” where young adults are shielded from words and ideas that make some uncomfortable. And ... this movement seeks to punish anyone who interferes with that aim, even accidentally.

The dangers that these trends pose to scholarship and to the quality of American universities are significant; we could write a whole essay detailing them. But in this essay we focus on a different question: What are the effects of this new protectiveness on the students themselves?

There’s a saying common in education circles: Don’t teach students what to think; teach them how to think. The idea goes back at least as far as Socrates. Today, what we call the Socratic method is a way of teaching that fosters critical thinking, in part by encouraging students to question their own unexamined beliefs, as well as the received wisdom of those around them. Such questioning sometimes leads to discomfort, and even to anger, on the way to understanding.

But vindictive protectiveness teaches students to think in a very different way. A(nd) a campus culture devoted to policing speech and punishing speakers is likely to engender patterns of thought that are surprisingly similar to those long identified by cognitive behavioral therapists as causes of depression and anxiety. The new protectiveness may be teaching students to think pathologically.

(a history outlining highly protected childhoods of recent generations)

So it’s not hard to imagine why students arriving on campus today might be more desirous of protection and more hostile toward ideological opponents than in generations past. This hostility, and the self-righteousness fueled by strong partisan emotions, can be expected to add force to any moral crusade. Part of what we do when we make moral judgments is express allegiance to a team. But that can interfere with our ability to think critically. Acknowledging that the other side’s viewpoint has any merit is risky—your teammates may see you as a traitor.

We do not mean to imply simple causation, but rates of mental illness in young adults have been rising, both on campus and off, in recent decades.

The Thinking Cure ... For millennia, philosophers have understood that we don’t see life as it is; we see a version distorted by our hopes, fears, and other attachments. The Buddha said, “Our life is the creation of our mind.” Marcus Aurelius said, “Life itself is but what you deem it.” The quest for wisdom in many traditions begins with this insight. Early Buddhists and the Stoics, for example, developed practices for reducing attachments, thinking more clearly, and finding release from the emotional torments of normal mental life.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is a modern embodiment of this ancient wisdom. The goal is to minimize distorted thinking and see the world more accurately. You start by learning the names of the dozen or so most common cognitive distortions (such as overgeneralizing, discounting positives, and emotional reasoning; see the list at the bottom of this article). Each time you notice yourself falling prey to one of them, you name it, describe the facts of the situation, consider alternative interpretations, and then choose an interpretation of events more in line with those facts.

(But) Emotional reasoning* dominates many campus debates and discussions. A claim that someone’s words are “offensive” is not just an expression of one’s own subjective feeling of offendedness. It is, rather, a public charge that the speaker has done something objectively wrong. It is a demand that the speaker apologize or be punished by some authority for committing an offense. (* ‘I feel it, therefore it must be true.’)

There have always been some people who believe they have a right not to be offended.

(But since a 1993 case) Claims of a right not to be offended have continued to arise since then, and universities have continued to privilege them. In a particularly egregious 2008 case, for instance, Indiana University–Purdue University at Indianapolis found a white student guilty of racial harassment for reading a book titled Notre Dame vs. the Klan. The book honored student opposition to the Ku Klux Klan when it marched on Notre Dame in 1924. Nonetheless, the picture of a Klan rally on the book’s cover offended at least one of the student’s co-workers (he was a janitor as well as a student), and that was enough for a guilty finding by the university’s Affirmative Action Office.

These examples may seem extreme, but the reasoning behind them has become more commonplace on campus in recent years.

The rest of the article contains real-life extreme examples.



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Friday, March 22, 2019 6:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump’s Free-Speech Executive Order and the Right’s Fixation on Campus Politics
www.newyorker.com/news/current/trumps-free-speech-executive-order-and-
the-rights-fixation-with-campus-politics


In a White House ceremony on Thursday afternoon, Trump signed an executive order barring colleges that are deemed unduly restrictive of free speech from receiving federal funds—a move that was previewed in the President’s speech to this year’s CPAC conference, earlier this month, and in a tweet that he posted in early 2017, in response to protests that had broken out at U.C. Berkeley over a scheduled appearance by the right-wing agitator Milo Yiannopoulos: “If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view - NO FEDERAL FUNDS?”

The right’s fixation on campus politics has never had much to do with realities on the ground, of course. William F. Buckley’s jeremiad against the power and influence of leftists in the academy, “God and Man at Yale,” was published in 1951, a time when leftists were being hounded out of their jobs at American universities and elsewhere by a Second Red Scare. The victimization narrative has changed little since then, even as the conservative movement has come to wield an extraordinary amount of power in American politics and life—so much so that they’ve managed to enlist a President of the United States as an ally in their undergraduate squabbles.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:08 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


referenced by the article

Common Cognitive Distortions

A partial list from Robert L. Leahy, Stephen J. F. Holland, and Lata K. McGinn’s Treatment Plans and Interventions for Depression and Anxiety Disorders (2012).

1. Mind reading. You assume that you know what people think without having sufficient evidence of their thoughts. “He thinks I’m a loser.”

2. Fortune-telling. You predict the future negatively: things will get worse, or there is danger ahead. “I’ll fail that exam,” or “I won’t get the job.”

3. Catastrophizing.You believe that what has happened or will happen will be so awful and unbearable that you won’t be able to stand it. “It would be terrible if I failed.”

4. Labeling. You assign global negative traits to yourself and others. “I’m undesirable,” or “He’s a rotten person.”

5. Discounting positives. You claim that the positive things you or others do are trivial. “That’s what wives are supposed to do—so it doesn’t count when she’s nice to me,” or “Those successes were easy, so they don’t matter.”

6. Negative filtering. You focus almost exclusively on the negatives and seldom notice the positives. “Look at all of the people who don’t like me.”

7. Overgeneralizing. You perceive a global pattern of negatives on the basis of a single incident. “This generally happens to me. I seem to fail at a lot of things.”

8. Dichotomous thinking. You view events or people in all-or-nothing terms. “I get rejected by everyone,” or “It was a complete waste of time.”

9. Blaming. You focus on the other person as the source of your negative feelings, and you refuse to take responsibility for changing yourself. “She’s to blame for the way I feel now,” or “My parents caused all my problems.”

10. What if? You keep asking a series of questions about “what if” something happens, and you fail to be satisfied with any of the answers. “Yeah, but what if I get anxious?,” or “What if I can’t catch my breath?”

11. Emotional reasoning. You let your feelings guide your interpretation of reality. “I feel depressed; therefore, my marriage is not working out.”

12. Inability to disconfirm. You reject any evidence or arguments that might contradict your negative thoughts. For example, when you have the thought I’m unlovable, you reject as irrelevant any evidence that people like you. Consequently, your thought cannot be refuted. “That’s not the real issue. There are deeper problems. There are other factors.”


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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:12 PM

REAVERFAN



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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:12 PM

REAVERFAN


More Nazi propaganda from RUE. Yawn.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:12 PM

REAVERFAN



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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:19 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


the authors


Jonathan Haidt

Jonathan David Haidt is an American social psychologist and Professor of Ethical Leadership at New York University's Stern School of Business. His academic specialization is the psychology of morality and the moral emotions.
Haidt has attracted both support and criticism for his critique of the current state of universities and his interpretation of progressive values. Haidt has been named one of the "top global thinkers" by Foreign Policy magazine, and one of the "top world thinkers" by Prospect magazine. He is among the most cited researchers in political psychology and moral psychology, and has given four TED talks.

Greg Lukianoff

A graduate of American University and Stanford Law School, he has described himself as a "pro-choice liberal."
Lukianoff has published articles in the Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe, The Chronicle of Higher Education, The Atlantic, Inside Higher Ed, and the New York Post. He is a blogger for the Huffington Post and served as a regular columnist for the Daily Journal of Los Angeles and San Francisco.
He has also appeared on various news shows, including Stossel on more than one occasion. Before joining FIRE, Lukianoff worked for the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, the Organization for Aid to Refugees, and the EnvironMentors Project. He lives in New York City.
Greg Lukianoff is the president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE). He previously served as FIRE's first director of legal and public advocacy until he was appointed president in 2006.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
More Nazi propaganda from RUE. Yawn.

It's actually an article, then a book, by right-wingers claiming left-wingers are crazy:

The Coddling of the American Mind
September 2015
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-ameri
can-mind/399356
/

Three years later, the article had been expanded into a book:
www.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/20/the-coddling-of-the-american-min
d-review


The core irony of The Coddling of the American Mind is that, by opposing identity politics, its authors try to consolidate an identity that does not have to see itself as such. Enjoying the luxury of living free from discrimination and domination, they therefore insist that the crises moving young people to action are all in their heads. Imagine thinking that racism and sexism were just bad ideas that a good debate could conquer! (As if a person did not need a minimum level of material security to participate in the kind of disinterested debate David Remnick and Steve Bannon might have enjoyed at the New Yorker festival.)

As the right liberals insist that students are suffering from pathological “distortions”, a sense of unreality prevails. In their safe space of TED talks and thinktanks and think pieces, the genteel crusaders against “political correctness” create their own speech codes. As their constituency shrinks, their cant of progress starts to sound hysterical. The minds they coddle just may be their own.

• The Coddling of the American Mind by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt (Penguin, £20).

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:21 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:


The right’s fixation on campus politics has never had much to do with realities on the ground, of course.

They've always whined about colleges being too liberal. Always.

Now we've got groups like TPUSA who focus on and specialize in attacking professors they consider too liberal.

Professor Watchlist Is Seen as Threat to Academic Freedom
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/us/professor-watchlist-is-seen-as-t
hreat-to-academic-freedom.html


No Re-Turning Point, U.S.A.
From the “Professor Watchlist” to Tariq Khan, TPUSA’s campaign to silence opposition
https://thebaffler.com/the-poverty-of-theory/no-re-turning-point-u-s-a

I went inside a rightwing safe space to find out the truth about universities

With universities in an ‘existential crisis’, Turning Point USA sells a safe space for conservatives who have convinced themselves they are the embattled minority
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/07/charlie-kirk-tur
ning-point-usa-universities-free-speech-debate


Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
https://www.favreau.info/misc/14-points-fascism.php




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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!



the authors


Jonathan Haidt

Jonathan David Haidt is an American social psychologist and Professor of Ethical Leadership at New York University's Stern School of Business. His academic specialization is the psychology of morality and the moral emotions.
Haidt has attracted both support and criticism for his critique of the current state of universities and his interpretation of progressive values. Haidt has been named one of the "top global thinkers" by Foreign Policy magazine, and one of the "top world thinkers" by Prospect magazine. He is among the most cited researchers in political psychology and moral psychology, and has given four TED talks.

Greg Lukianoff

A graduate of American University and Stanford Law School, he has described himself as a "pro-choice liberal."
Lukianoff has published articles in the Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe, The Chronicle of Higher Education, The Atlantic, Inside Higher Ed, and the New York Post. He is a blogger for the Huffington Post and served as a regular columnist for the Daily Journal of Los Angeles and San Francisco.
He has also appeared on various news shows, including Stossel on more than one occasion. Before joining FIRE, Lukianoff worked for the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, the Organization for Aid to Refugees, and the EnvironMentors Project. He lives in New York City.
Greg Lukianoff is the president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE). He previously served as FIRE's first director of legal and public advocacy until he was appointed president in 2006.


Neither of them are Nazis or right-wing.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:33 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


btw

I invite you to read the article, especially the court cases and college /university policy decisions and actions, which are neither reasonable nor productive. And perhaps you might comment on the - yanno - actual content of the actual article.

Otherwise - my post stands un-refuted.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:

Neither of them are Nazis or right-wing.

Do you have some proof? Is that like Trump's proof he didn't cheat on his taxes? Do you have proof about the wholesomeness of Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt? You can repeat their titles, but that proves nothing about who the unedited, uncensored persons they are. Trump keeps insisting he is the least racist President and that he is both financially honest and truthful. That needs proof, which requires digging deep into actual behavior, not taking people's word for truth about themselves.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:41 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Neither of them are Nazis or right-wing.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Do you have some proof?

Is wiki good enough for you? Then check out their entries, which also include links to referenced items.

It's simple enough, even for you.

Please note: while I can link information, I can't read it for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lukianoff

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:47 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!



btw

I invite you to read the article, especially the court cases and college /university policy decisions and actions, which are neither reasonable nor productive. And perhaps you might comment on the - yanno - actual content of the actual article.

Otherwise - my post stands un-refuted.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Neither of them are Nazis or right-wing.

Quote:

Originally posted by SECOND:
Do you have some proof?

Is wiki good enough for you? Then check out their entries, which also include links to referenced items.

It's simple enough, even for you.

Please note: while I can link information, I can't read it for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Lukianoff

You can find Jordan fucking Peterson in wiki, too. Nowhere does the article mention he is a right-wing nut job teaching psychology at a University.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, March 22, 2019 7:51 PM

REAVERFAN


Very right wing.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt

The Conservatives Behind the Campus ‘Free Speech’ Crusade

An upcoming conference at Bard College could shed important light on the right-wing funders behind a deceptive campaign to protect “free speech” while advancing conservative ideology on “liberal” campuses.
https://prospect.org/article/conservatives-behind-campus-%E2%80%98free
-speech%E2%80%99-crusade


What the Campus ‘Free Speech’ Crusade Won’t Say

There's a real enemy to free speech, but you're not hearing about it.
https://www.alternet.org/2016/09/what-campus-free-speech-crusade-wont-
say-0
/

Got any more bullshit you want me to blow up?

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Friday, March 22, 2019 8:39 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
You can find Jordan fucking Peterson in wiki, too. Nowhere does the article mention he is a right-wing nut job teaching psychology at a University.

I can't help it if you can't read. OF COURSE wiki doesn't call Peterson names. But it does cite his work and his associations. Here is but one example of many that will allow you to figure his positions out (assuming you can both read and think). "Peterson's perspective on the influence of postmodernism on North American humanities departments has been compared to Cultural Marxist conspiracy theories".

You'll find no such references in the entries of Haidt and Lukianoff. And both have significant liberal credentials. Just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they're in any right-wing group.

You might also want to check your mental processes.

Because you failed to address the actual subject, let alone refute it with facts buttressed by links, my position that neither Haidt nor Lukianoff are Nazis or right-wing still stands.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 8:43 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!



btw

I invite you to read the article, especially the court cases and college /university policy decisions and actions, which are neither reasonable nor productive. And perhaps you might comment on the - yanno - actual content of the actual article. Be specific, with links.

Otherwise - my post stands un-refuted.


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Friday, March 22, 2019 9:19 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


RF

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt

NOTE: 'rationalwiki' is NOT related to wikipedia. It's a discussion board organized by topic with an overtly stated agenda, and is significantly opinionated and biased.
From wikipedia "RationalWiki is a wiki whose stated aims are to critique and challenge pseudoscience and the anti-science movement, explore authoritarianism and fundamentalism and analyze how these subjects are handled in the media.[7] It was created in 2007 to counter Conservapedia after an incident in which contributors attempting to edit Conservapedia were banned."
Note that the Haidt article in rationalwiki doesn't have a single cited fact to back up it's assertion that Haidt "... has since devolved into a Very Serious Person after winning a Templeton prize, now spending his efforts on foggy discourse and dissing New Atheism."


https://prospect.org/article/conservatives-behind-campus-%E2%80%98free
-speech%E2%80%99-crusade
"An upcoming conference at Bard College could shed important light on the right-wing funders behind a deceptive campaign to protect “free speech” while advancing conservative ideology on “liberal” campuses."

Less prognostication and opinion, and more facts would be relevant.

Nevertheless, what this article says about FIRE is this: "Now a thorough, mostly well-balanced report by the PEN (Poets, Essayists, and Novelists) American Center confirms that the conservative “free speech” crusade has gone too far. (but) the PEN report ... stops short of blaming the conservative group (FIRE) for wielding the cudgel, and even credits the organization with calling attention to threats against free speech. The report calls the organization “libertarian” but, confusingly, notes elsewhere in the text that the “FIRE is often regarded as libertarian or conservative and is viewed suspiciously by some liberal or progressive students and faculty.
Never mind that, as FIRE keeps discovering ... the college trustees and deans whom it condemns rightly enough for restricting speech are serving not politically correct pieties, but market pressures to satisfy student “customers” and avoid negative publicity, liability, and losses in “brand” or “market share.””

OMG. FIRE, a libertarian organization according to the article, actually correctly identifies threats to free speech.


https://www.alternet.org/2016/09/what-campus-free-speech-crusade-wont-
say-0
/
There's a real enemy to free speech, but you're not hearing about it.
This article appears to be about someone named Scott C. Johnston.

I've adequately refuted your claims.

The first is an unsupported opinion piece by an organization with a stated agenda.

The second credits LIFE for correctly identifying threats to free speech and calls it libertarian.

The third addresses the actions of Scott C. Johnston.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 9:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


meanwhile

I invite you to read the article, especially the court cases and college /university policy decisions and actions, which are neither reasonable nor productive. And perhaps you might comment on the - yanno - actual content of the actual article. Be specific, with links.

Otherwise - my post stands un-refuted.



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Friday, March 22, 2019 10:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RE: Idiocracy

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-22/18-statistics-prove-america-
has-become-idiocracy


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Friday, March 22, 2019 10:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


That OP story seems like old news.

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Friday, March 22, 2019 11:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Well, looks like Rue is being introduced to the current state of delusions of second. For many of us, second's devolution has been gradual, but Rue has not had that benefit.

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Saturday, March 23, 2019 2:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Big surprise...

Marcos thinks that Jordan Peterson is a Nazi. (Isn't everyone these days?)



Hey, Marcos...

Name one thing that makes Peterson a Nazi.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 23, 2019 11:59 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
I've adequately refuted your claims.




Still not grasping logic, I see. Then, Russian trolls aren't here to be logical.

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Saturday, March 23, 2019 12:03 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Big surprise...

Marcos thinks that Jordan Peterson is a Nazi. (Isn't everyone these days?)



Hey, Marcos...

Name one thing that makes Peterson a Nazi.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Peterson would tell you he isn't a Nazi. He probably believes it.

He's a gateway. The way people are drawn into Nazism is subtle.

You don't just jump from "conservative who believes the free market will fix everything" to "Jews will not replace us" overnight.






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Saturday, March 23, 2019 1:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


REAVERBOT is a deficient program who's only response to any post he doesn't like is "Nazi" or "Russian troll".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, March 23, 2019 1:25 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


RF
Since you failed to refute my post with facts - backed up with links and quotes - this post stands un-refuted.
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
RF

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt

NOTE: 'rationalwiki' is NOT related to wikipedia. It's a discussion board organized by topic with an overtly stated agenda, and is significantly opinionated and biased.
From wikipedia "RationalWiki is a wiki whose stated aims are to critique and challenge pseudoscience and the anti-science movement, explore authoritarianism and fundamentalism and analyze how these subjects are handled in the media.[7] It was created in 2007 to counter Conservapedia after an incident in which contributors attempting to edit Conservapedia were banned."
Note that the Haidt article in rationalwiki doesn't have a single cited fact to back up it's assertion that Haidt "... has since devolved into a Very Serious Person after winning a Templeton prize, now spending his efforts on foggy discourse and dissing New Atheism."


https://prospect.org/article/conservatives-behind-campus-%E2%80%98free
-speech%E2%80%99-crusade
"An upcoming conference at Bard College could shed important light on the right-wing funders behind a deceptive campaign to protect “free speech” while advancing conservative ideology on “liberal” campuses."

Less prognostication and opinion, and more facts would be relevant.

Nevertheless, what this article says about FIRE is this: "Now a thorough, mostly well-balanced report by the PEN (Poets, Essayists, and Novelists) American Center confirms that the conservative “free speech” crusade has gone too far. (but) the PEN report ... stops short of blaming the conservative group (FIRE) for wielding the cudgel, and even credits the organization with calling attention to threats against free speech. The report calls the organization “libertarian” but, confusingly, notes elsewhere in the text that the “FIRE is often regarded as libertarian or conservative and is viewed suspiciously by some liberal or progressive students and faculty.
Never mind that, as FIRE keeps discovering ... the college trustees and deans whom it condemns rightly enough for restricting speech are serving not politically correct pieties, but market pressures to satisfy student “customers” and avoid negative publicity, liability, and losses in “brand” or “market share.””

OMG. FIRE, a libertarian organization according to the article, actually correctly identifies threats to free speech.


https://www.alternet.org/2016/09/what-campus-free-speech-crusade-wont-
say-0
/
There's a real enemy to free speech, but you're not hearing about it.
This article appears to be about someone named Scott C. Johnston.

I've adequately refuted your claims.

The first is an unsupported opinion piece by an organization with a stated agenda.

The second credits LIFE for correctly identifying threats to free speech and calls it libertarian.

The third addresses the actions of Scott C. Johnston.

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Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Big surprise...

Marcos thinks that Jordan Peterson is a Nazi. (Isn't everyone these days?)



Hey, Marcos...

Name one thing that makes Peterson a Nazi.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Peterson would tell you he isn't a Nazi. He probably believes it.

He's a gateway. The way people are drawn into Nazism is subtle.

You don't just jump from "conservative who believes the free market will fix everything" to "Jews will not replace us" overnight.




LOL

Oh. He's not a Nazi. He's a GATEWAY DRUG!!!!!

You heard it here folks. The EXTREME left has official become the replacement of the Evangelical Right of the 80's that invoked the Satanic Panic.


You have become everything that you hate, Marcos. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:11 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
RF

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt

NOTE: 'rationalwiki' is NOT related to wikipedia. It's a discussion board organized by topic with an overtly stated agenda, and is significantly opinionated and biased.
From wikipedia "RationalWiki is a wiki whose stated aims are to critique and challenge pseudoscience and the anti-science movement, explore authoritarianism and fundamentalism and analyze how these subjects are handled in the media.[7] It was created in 2007 to counter Conservapedia after an incident in which contributors attempting to edit Conservapedia were banned."
Note that the Haidt article in rationalwiki doesn't have a single cited fact to back up it's assertion that Haidt "... has since devolved into a Very Serious Person after winning a Templeton prize, now spending his efforts on foggy discourse and dissing New Atheism."


https://prospect.org/article/conservatives-behind-campus-%E2%80%98free
-speech%E2%80%99-crusade
"An upcoming conference at Bard College could shed important light on the right-wing funders behind a deceptive campaign to protect “free speech” while advancing conservative ideology on “liberal” campuses."

Less prognostication and opinion, and more facts would be relevant.

Nevertheless, what this article says about FIRE is this: "Now a thorough, mostly well-balanced report by the PEN (Poets, Essayists, and Novelists) American Center confirms that the conservative “free speech” crusade has gone too far. (but) the PEN report ... stops short of blaming the conservative group (FIRE) for wielding the cudgel, and even credits the organization with calling attention to threats against free speech. The report calls the organization “libertarian” but, confusingly, notes elsewhere in the text that the “FIRE is often regarded as libertarian or conservative and is viewed suspiciously by some liberal or progressive students and faculty.
Never mind that, as FIRE keeps discovering ... the college trustees and deans whom it condemns rightly enough for restricting speech are serving not politically correct pieties, but market pressures to satisfy student “customers” and avoid negative publicity, liability, and losses in “brand” or “market share.””

OMG. FIRE, a libertarian organization according to the article, actually correctly identifies threats to free speech.


https://www.alternet.org/2016/09/what-campus-free-speech-crusade-wont-
say-0
/
There's a real enemy to free speech, but you're not hearing about it.
This article appears to be about someone named Scott C. Johnston.

I've adequately refuted your claims.

The first is an unsupported opinion piece by an organization with a stated agenda.

The second credits LIFE for correctly identifying threats to free speech and calls it libertarian.

The third addresses the actions of Scott C. Johnston.

Is someone comingling Libertarians with Conservatives?
Really?



And rue, Trolls have been habitually LAX in their quoting syntax and Fidelity. Please check your syntax when posting, so we can decipher what you are saying.

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Sunday, March 24, 2019 5:30 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Does anybody have the quote where Marcos called Peterson a Nazi?


It seems that, along the lines of his pro-censorship stance on everything, he is not at all afraid to re-write history and edit or flat out remove his old posts when he's said something stupid.

You can see a few empty posts by Marcos above. There no longer is any evidence in this thread that he did call Peterson a Nazi.



But we all saw it. That doesn't make it not true.

I'm going to go see if archive.org captured it.




EDIT: Nope. Last archive capture was in 2018.

Going to have to make sure to quote all of Marco's posts when I reply to him from now on. I suggest you all do the same.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 24, 2019 8:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


REAVERBOT is a troll and a propagandist, and ... like all good propagnadists ... doesn't mind lying and rewriting history.

Capturing Marcos' ephemeral statements is one of the functions of "reply with quote" and the "predictions" thread. I recommend these built-in functions highly.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Sunday, March 24, 2019 12:38 PM

REAVERFAN


It's fun blowing your arguments completely out of the water using facts you refuse to read.

People as seemingly harmless as Pewdiepie are gateways to full-blown Nazism. The actual, real Nazis are well aware of this. They won't stop, they'll just have to reconfigure, yet again.


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Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Does anybody have the quote where Marcos called Peterson a Nazi?


It seems that, along the lines of his pro-censorship stance on everything, he is not at all afraid to re-write history and edit or flat out remove his old posts when he's said something stupid.

You can see a few empty posts by Marcos above. There no longer is any evidence in this thread that he did call Peterson a Nazi.



But we all saw it. That doesn't make it not true.

I'm going to go see if archive.org captured it.




EDIT: Nope. Last archive capture was in 2018.

Going to have to make sure to quote all of Marco's posts when I reply to him from now on. I suggest you all do the same.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you insist upon continuing to feed the Trolls, you need to quote them. They rely upon you to be too lazy to do so.

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Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
It's fun blowing your arguments completely out of the water using facts you refuse to read.

People as seemingly harmless as Pewdiepie are gateways to full-blown Nazism. The actual, real Nazis are well aware of this. They won't stop, they'll just have to reconfigure, yet again.




Are you too stupid to read the shit that you post yourself?

Read it again, Marcos.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 25, 2019 8:20 AM

REAVERFAN


You've amply demonstrated who's stupid, and it's not me.


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Monday, March 25, 2019 11:22 AM

REAVERFAN


Cambridge University rescinds Jordan Peterson invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university
-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation?CMP=twt_gu


Is this censorship?

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Monday, March 25, 2019 11:39 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
You've amply demonstrated who's stupid, and it's not me.




Whatever helps your broken brain sleep at night, Marcos.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 25, 2019 11:40 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Cambridge University rescinds Jordan Peterson invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university
-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation?CMP=twt_gu


Is this censorship?



I dunno, Marcos.

I guess we'll have to see what effect Trump's executive order on free speech has in store for the future of Cambridge University's funding.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 25, 2019 11:59 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted:
Cambridge University rescinds Jordan Peterson invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university
-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation?CMP=twt_gu


Is this censorship?


I dunno, Marcos.

I guess we'll have to see what effect Trump's executive order on free speech has in store for the future of Cambridge University's funding.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Executive Order on Free Speech?
Is that a joke? Or did I miss something? Linky?


Never mind, found it buried in a Troll post.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 12:16 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Cambridge University rescinds Jordan Peterson invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university
-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation?CMP=twt_gu


Is this censorship?



I dunno, Marcos.

I guess we'll have to see what effect Trump's executive order on free speech has in store for the future of Cambridge University's funding.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Seeing that Cambridge is in England, I don't think it will have any effect.

Derp.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 12:16 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Never mind, found it buried in a Troll post.

Projection.

I bring facts and logic, and routinely destroy your tinfoil nonsense, Russian troll.

I already destroyed that bullshit order, and exposed it for what it is: The right's obsession with promoting fascism.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 12:24 PM

REAVERFAN


Let me stomp you just a little bit more.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/current/trumps-free-speech-executive-or
der-and-the-rights-fixation-with-campus-politics


This is the kind of college-administrative minutiae—material for a page-B story in a campus newspaper—that conservative and mainstream journalists have spent the past several years reframing as creeping totalitarianism. (It should be said that the small boom in campus stories that began with dustups at Yale and the University of Missouri, in 2015, seems to have died down in the mainstream press.) But the right thrives on tales like this, and has been eager to see Trump stick it to liberal campuses for some time. In October, 2017, the American Enterprise Institute published a report recommending that federal funding for schools thought to be insufficiently protective of free speech be withheld either by legislation, at the discretion of grant-making agencies, or, as Trump has now done, by executive action. Interestingly, just months earlier, A.E.I. had issued another report, based on survey data, that challenged the panic over free speech and expression on campuses. “Recent protests against speakers at different colleges have raised questions about free speech on campus, with some critics characterizing universities as increasingly intolerant,” the report’s summary read. “Polls of college students and young people show little evidence of such a trend, although responses differ depending on the nature of the speech in question.”

The right’s fixation on campus politics has never had much to do with realities on the ground, of course. William F. Buckley’s jeremiad against the power and influence of leftists in the academy, “God and Man at Yale,” was published in 1951, a time when leftists were being hounded out of their jobs at American universities and elsewhere by a Second Red Scare. The victimization narrative has changed little since then, even as the conservative movement has come to wield an extraordinary amount of power in American politics and life—so much so that they’ve managed to enlist a President of the United States as an ally in their undergraduate squabbles.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-enterprise-institute/


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Monday, March 25, 2019 12:31 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!



Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Cambridge University rescinds Jordan Peterson invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university
-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation?CMP=twt_gu


Is this censorship?

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


I dunno, Marcos.

I guess we'll have to see what effect Trump's executive order on free speech has in store for the future of Cambridge University's funding.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:

Seeing that Cambridge is in England, I don't think it will have any effect.

Derp.

OMG. You FINALLY got the joke.

Never mistake your own stupidity as belonging to someone else.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 1:33 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

OMG. You FINALLY got the joke.

Never mistake your own stupidity as belonging to someone else.

The redneck is the one who missed it.

I know my constant crushing of you makes you very, very angry, but pretending it was a joke when it wasn't just lets me stomp you even harder.

Do you ever use facts? I find that they help me crush fake account trolls like yourself with ease.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 3:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:


The right’s fixation on campus politics has never had much to do with realities on the ground, of course.

They've always whined about colleges being too liberal. Always.

Now we've got groups like TPUSA who focus on and specialize in attacking professors they consider too liberal.

Professor Watchlist Is Seen as Threat to Academic Freedom
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/us/professor-watchlist-is-seen-as-t
hreat-to-academic-freedom.html


No Re-Turning Point, U.S.A.
From the “Professor Watchlist” to Tariq Khan, TPUSA’s campaign to silence opposition
https://thebaffler.com/the-poverty-of-theory/no-re-turning-point-u-s-a

I went inside a rightwing safe space to find out the truth about universities

With universities in an ‘existential crisis’, Turning Point USA sells a safe space for conservatives who have convinced themselves they are the embattled minority
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/07/charlie-kirk-tur
ning-point-usa-universities-free-speech-debate


Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.
https://www.favreau.info/misc/14-points-fascism.php

While looking for something else, I notice that here we have 2 Trolls seeming to argue against each other.
Worth a laugh.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 3:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Fleeting mention was made of Trump's Executive Order on Free Speech, but I did not see details. Many MSM stories yakked about Trump's speech, but did not share the contents of the EOoFS.

Mention has been made regarding connecting Federal Funding to Colleges which do not allow Free Speech, but that does not seem to be in the EOoFS.

From what I could find, here is the full content of the OEoFS:


EXECUTIVE ORDER

- - - - - - -

IMPROVING FREE INQUIRY, TRANSPARENCY, AND ACCOUNTABILITY AT COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Purpose. The purpose of this order is to enhance the quality of postsecondary education by making it more affordable, more transparent, and more accountable. Institutions of higher education (institutions) should be accountable both for student outcomes and for student life on campus.

In particular, my Administration seeks to promote free and open debate on college and university campuses. Free inquiry is an essential feature of our Nation's democracy, and it promotes learning, scientific discovery, and economic prosperity. We must encourage institutions to appropriately account for this bedrock principle in their administration of student life and to avoid creating environments that stifle competing perspectives, thereby potentially impeding beneficial research and undermining learning.

The financial burden of hig her education on students and their families is also a national problem that needs immediate attention. Over the past 30 years, college tuition and fees have grown at more than twice the rate of the Consumer Price Index. Rising student loan debt, coupled with low repayment rates, threatens the financial health of both individuals and families as well as of Federal student loan programs. In addition, too many programs of study fail to prepare students for success in today’s job market.

The Federal Government can take meaningful steps to address these problems. Selecting an institution and course of study are important decisions for prospective students and significantly affect long-term earnings. Institutions should be transparent about the average earnings and loan repayment rates of former students who received Federal student aid. Additionally, the Federal Government should make this information readily accessible to the public and to prospective students and their families, in particular.

This order will promote greater access to critical information regarding the prices and outcomes of postsecondary education, thereby furthering the goals of the National Council for the American Worker established by Executive Order 13845 of July 19, 2018 (Establishing the President's National Council for the American Worker). Increased information disclosure will help ensure that individuals make educational choices suited to their needs, interests, and circumstances. Access to this information will also increase institutional accountability and encourage institutions to take into account likely future earnings when establishing the cost of their educational programs.

Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the Federal Government to:

(a) encourage institutions to foster environments that promote open, intellectually engaging, and diverse debate, including through compliance with the First Amendment for public institutions and compliance with stated institutional policies regarding freedom of speech for private institutions;

(b) help students (including workers seeking additional training) and their families understand, through better data and career counseling, that not all institutions, degrees, or fields of study provide similar returns on their investment, and consider that their educational decisions should account for the opportunity cost of enrolling in a program;

(c) align the incentives of institutions with those of students and taxpayers to ensure that institutions share the financial risk associated with Federal student loan programs;

(d) help borrowers avoid defaulting on their Federal student loans by educating them about risks, repayment obligations, and repayment options; and

(e) supplement efforts by States and institutions by disseminating information to assist students in completing their degrees faster and at lower cost.

Sec. 3. Improving Free Inquiry on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsection 2(a) of this Order, the heads of covered agencies shall, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, take appropriate steps, in a manner consistent with applicable law, including the First Amendment, to ensure institutions that receive Federal research or education grants promote free inquiry, including through compliance with all applicable Federal laws, regulations, and policies.

(b) “Covered agencies” for purposes of this section are the Departments of Defense, the Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health and Human Services, Transportation, Energy, and Education; the Environmental Protection Agency; the National Science Foundation; and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

(c) “Federal research or education grants” for purposes of this section include all funding provided by a covered agency directly to an institution but do not include funding associated with Federal student aid programs that cover tuition, fees, or stipends.

Sec. 4. Improving Transparency and Accountability on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsections 2(b)-(e) of this order, the Secretary of Education (Secretary) shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law:

(i) make available, by January 1, 2020, through the Office of Federal Student Aid, a secure and confidential website and mobile application that informs Federal student loan borrowers of how much they owe, how much their monthly payment will be when they enter repayment, available repayment options, how long each repayment option will take, and how to enroll in the repayment option that best serves their needs;

(ii) expand and update annually the College Scorecard, or any successor, with the following program-level data for each certificate, degree, graduate, and professional program, for former students who received Federal student aid:

(A) estimated median earnings;

(B) median Stafford loan debt;

(C) median Graduate PLUS loan debt (if applicable);

(D) median Parent PLUS loan debt; and

(E) student loan default rate and repayment rate; and

(iii) expand and update annually the College Scorecard, or any successor, with the following institution-level data, providing the aggregate for all certificate, degree, graduate, and professional programs, for former students who received Federal student aid:

(A) student loan default rate and repayment rate;

(B) Graduate PLUS default rate and repayment rate; and

(C) Parent PLUS default rate and repayment rate.

(b) For the purpose of implementing subsection (a)(ii) of this section, the Secretary of the Treasury shall, upon the request of the Secretary, provide in a timely manner appropriate statistical studies and compilations regarding program-level earnings, consistent with section 6108(b) of title 26, United States Code, other applicable laws, and available data regarding programs attended by former students who received Federal student aid.

Sec. 5. Reporting Requirements. (a) By January 1, 2020, the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, shall submit to the President, through the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, a report identifying and analyzing policy options for sharing the risk associated with Federal student loan debt among the Federal Government, institutions, and other entities.

(b) By January 1, 2020, the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, shall submit to the President, through the Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, policy recommendations for reforming the collections process for Federal student loans in default.

(c) Beginning July 1, 2019, the Secretary shall provide an annual update on the Secretary's progress in implementing the policies set forth in subsections 2(b)-(e) of this order to the National Council for the American Worker at meetings of the Council.

(d) Within 1 year of the date of this order, the Secretary shall compile information about successful State and institutional efforts to promote students' timely and affordable completion of a postsecondary program of study. Based on that information, the Secretary shall publish a compilation of research results that addresses:

(i) how some States and institutions have better facilitated successful transfer of credits and degree completion by transfer students;

(ii) how States and institutions can increase access to dual enrollment programs; and

(iii) other strategies for increasing student success, especially among students at high risk of not completing a postsecondary program of study.

Sec. 6. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 5:05 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
While looking for something else, I notice that here we have 2 Trolls seeming to argue against each other.
Worth a laugh.

You Russians are the only trolls here.

I use facts, you lie and deflect.

The substance of the order is to punish colleges and make education even more expensive and unattainable.

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Monday, March 25, 2019 5:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Cambridge University rescinds Jordan Peterson invitation
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/20/cambridge-university
-rescinds-jordan-peterson-invitation?CMP=twt_gu


Is this censorship?



I dunno, Marcos.

I guess we'll have to see what effect Trump's executive order on free speech has in store for the future of Cambridge University's funding.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Seeing that Cambridge is in England, I don't think it will have any effect.

Derp.



Well. It seems you already have your answer then, Marcos.

Freedom of Speech doesn't exist outside of the United States.

Google it.


It's censorship, but it's not illegal outside of our borders.

Hopefully your kind doesn't win and ruin that for us here too.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, March 26, 2019 12:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Large bookstore chain in New Zealand bans Jordan Peterson's book. (ie: Censorship)

https://pjmedia.com/trending/new-zealand-bookstore-disappears-from-fac
ebook-twitter-after-banning-jordan-peterson-book
/



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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