REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Impeachment Investigation Is Underway, Judiciary Committee Says

POSTED BY: THG
UPDATED: Sunday, February 2, 2020 15:19
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PAGE 19 of 23

Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Boring.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 7:05 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Back in September 21, 2016, Fortune magazine calculated how much taxes Trump cheated the government out of with his "charity". Fortune guessed $700,000. Three years passed before a judge offers Trump's lawyers a $2 million deal -- if Trump pays, and shuts down his "charity", the judge will call it even.
https://fortune.com/2016/09/21/donald-trump-foundation-irs/

Fortune magazine was only able to look at Trump's "charity" tax returns because those returns must be made public. Trump claims to be worth $10 billion. The tax returns for those $billions are completely unknown at the moment, but someday the secret will be known. Even then it will possibly take three years, as it did with Trump's "charity", to discover how much Trump really owes.

For several more years there will be much to impeach Trump for, even into his second term. Only last month there was this article: "Never-Before-Seen Trump Tax Documents Show Major Inconsistencies"
www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-never-before-seen-trump-t
ax-documents-show-major-inconsistencies


If Trump is reelected, and he continues with keeping secrets, by the time his term ends in 2025, he will have 8 tax returns that he refused to share with the public, not even sharing the two pages showing total income and total taxes owed. I am expecting huge battles between Congress and Trump over those tax returns. Trump's buddies in the Senate won't be able to protect him from paying what he owes, even when they can protect him from Ukrainegate and abandoning the Kurds of Syria to save his Trump Towers Istanbul. Eventually, Trump will get punished for lying about his money. The punishment will be fair -- he pays what he owes.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 7:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Let's just say I served when Nixon was president comrade. He was my commander and chief. Figure it out.



And yet, you can't figure out which country's interests you represent. I know that because you can't answer this simple question: (in gold ... just so you don't miss it) - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine.

This simple question is one you've avoided answering in a dozen posts --- with propaganda, lies, trolling, LIBEL, and diversions.

Your inability to answer is very telling about where your loyalties lie.

A billion flies eat shit.

And BTW, I seriously doubt you've been in this country since Nixon was president, if at all. You're/your English and important military phrases - yanno, like the president's military title - would be better by now if that was true.

Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Let's just say I served when Nixon was president missing comma comrade. He was my commander and IN chief. Figure it out.


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Sunday, November 10, 2019 8:13 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:


You STILL can't answer the question THUGGER? You know, it's an important question. Everyone says the reason what Trump did with Zelensky was bad was because it jeopardized national security.
So here is my question again, in gold ... just so you don't miss it: - explain to me EXACTLY how US national security is threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine. -KIKI

Better kiki. Not great but better.

Encouraged a foreign nation to interfere with U.S. elections.

Baloney. Asked a foreign nation to cooperate with an ongoing investigation.

But if you think what Trump did was bad, how about ... asking Britain, Ukraine, and Australia to cooperate with an illegal counterintelligence operation against a candidate? Making shit up about that candidate (called the "steele dossier") and leaking it to the press?

Quote:

Opened up the President of the United States to blackmail.
How? There was no crime, so ... no blackmail. Hard as you try to turn this event into something that it wasn't (Did you read the transcript?) there's no "there" there.

Quote:

Helps Russia,
How?

Quote:

Stopped substantial military aid the U.S. Congress determined to be in America’s national interest from reaching its intended recipient (restored only after the scandal became public).
Jeezus, are you saying that Ukraine is a vital ally in our fight against Russia?

Hmmm... are we at war with Russia? Is Ukraine an ally?

Quote:

Ukraine is a buffer between Putin’s aggressive Russia and four NATO allies the U.S. is sworn to defend if attacked.
Ukraine is NOT an ally, theefore we are not "sworn" to defend it if it is attacked. Up until the USA-engineered coup in 2016, Ukraine was in fact a part of the Russian economic bloc. If Ukraine reverts to the Russian economic bloc, not much will have changed.

Quote:

If Russia takes over Ukraine due to an inability to defend themselves as a result of U.S. military aid not reaching them, the U.S. is more likely to either go to war, or have to invest substantially more in proactive defense. Russian troops just over the border from four more NATO members is dangerous.
well, maybe WE xhould have thought of that before we expanded NATO eastward.

[qoute]Makes other countries less likely to take American promises of military aid seriously.

Good. We promise too much military aid to too many nations. It might help them remember that aid is VOLUNTARY ... it can be started AND STOPPED based on our interests.

Quote:

Ukraine is vulnerable, in part, because the U.S. convinced them to give up their nuclear weapons, in exchange for assurance that we would help them defend themselves from Russia.
More baloney from THUGR!

The USA, Russia and Britain agreed not to attack Ukraine or to threaten its economic or political integrity. We broke that promise when we engineered a coup in Ukraine. our agreement with Ukraine was NOT a defense agreement.

Quote:

Weakening a vulnerable nation under attack makes the world less stable and makes it more likely the U.S. will suffer negative reverberations.
Maybe we should have thought of that before we engineered a coup and destroyed the Ukrainian economy.

Quote:

If Ukraine’s anti-Russia, anti-corruption leader ...
Quote:


who presumably would have an interest in investigating the corruption within Ukraine .. loses political power because the United States undermined him, his replacement may be more Putin-friendly and expand Putin’s influence against U.S. interests.

OUR interests? Where? In Ukraine?

Quote:

Improperly using the highest national security secrecy systems to hide political secrets and misconduct weakens them.
Obama used the same server for the same purpose. But since the content of he phone call was revaled, it seems there was no "there" there.

Quote:

Discourages other potential whistleblowers from reporting problems, making future national security vulnerabilities more likely.
Son, a "whistleblower" is one who reports a wrongdoing within his own agency. Ed Snowden is whistelblower. Chelsea Manning is a whistleblower. John Kiriakou is a whistleblower. Thomas Drake is a whistleblower. Consider how THEY'RE being treated. Isn't THAT more discouraging to whistleblowers: Being arrested and persecuted by their onw government?

Quote:

Discourages dedicated American patriots from going into, or remaining in, public service (intelligence, military, law enforcement, politics, civil service, etc.) when the president is undermining their efforts, corrupting systems, cheating in elections, putting personal interests ahead of national interests, etc.
"Dedicated" to hom and to what? The deep state?

Quote:

Allowing two straight U.S. elections to be undermined by foreign powers shows the U.S. to be weak and encourages future attacks.
Sure.




Wrong sig. Everything you post is wrong comrade. Not to worry though, I'm sure you're Putin's favorite.

And its dedicated to whom not hom. And its own not onw. And you spelled whistleblower whistelblower once. And its content of the phone call not he phone call. And its phone call revealed not reveled. And our in our agreement should be capitalized. It starts a new sentence.

T



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Sunday, November 10, 2019 8:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Wrong sig. Everything you post is wrong comrade.

REALLY?

Are we to take your disloyal / foreign / ignorant / libelous word for it?

Or do you have actual - yanno - FACTS at your disposal?

A billion flies eat shit.

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:22 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Or do you have actual - yanno - FACTS at your disposal?

A lawyer for Rudy Giuliani's indicted associate Lev Parnas said Giuliani directed Parnas to issue an ultimatum earlier this year to a representative of incoming Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, warning him that if the new government didn't announce an investigation into Joe Biden, the US would freeze military aid and Vice President Mike Pence would not attend Zelensky's inauguration.

There being no punishment for lying while NOT under oath, Giuliani denied everything. There is also no punishment for lying while under oath, if you lie during an impeachment trial in the GOP controlled Senate.

More at www.cnn.com/2019/11/10/politics/trump-ukraine-lev-parnas-igor-fruman-r
udy-giuliani/index.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:27 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yawn...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 11, 2019 12:43 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The reason why I'm here Jack, replying to the useful idiots, is because their 'thinking' only goes as deep as the last unsupported statement mouth-breathed by the m$m.

When I hear 'Trump endangered national security', my first response is to question - HOW exactly did he do that?

Did he - yanno - spill intelligence secrets? Give Putin the launch codes for the day? Or what?

It's like the Iraq / WMD scam that was run on Americans (that shamefully, many believed, because to them, it was unthinkable that their government would lie to them. And to them, it was even more unthinkable their government would put soldiers at risk of being killed for completely venal reasons.). In that scam, the government asserted unsupported statements about Iraq's WMDs over and over, the media amplified them ad nauseam, and the Iraq disaster was born.

So when I hear and see, over and over and over, that Trump somehow-or-other put US national security at risk, and it floats around unattached to any evidence given by anyone, it looks like a reprise of the WMD scam. That's why I keep asking EXACTLY HOW is US national security threatened by anything that happens in Ukraine?

Anyway, since I can't pinpoint exactly HOW this is supposed to be a problem to US national security, I have to assume people are in a dither because "weapons, training, and advisers" were briefly held up. So ASSUMING this is all about military aid to Ukraine, I can't find even one reason to connect it to US national security. But even IF it was a US national security issue, then Obama was far worse. "By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency." As opposed to, say, the Javelins now going to Ukraine, courtesy of Trump.



So I'm left to conclude that the useful idiots here have no facts, and no thoughts, and are simply parroting the most recent propaganda that's been poured into their short-term memories.

And the level of propaganda pisses me off, as well as their intolerant personal attacks for not being the zombies they are.

I understand that at this point they're beyond reality. And they're not going to suddenly become sane because (by some miracle) they realize that facts are incompatible with their beliefs. But I can't be silent on it either.

So ON THIS TOPIC, I've made my point and if needed I'll continue to make my point. No US national security was put at risk by delaying military aid to Ukraine.

And there were no WMDs in Iraq, either.






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Monday, November 11, 2019 12:55 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I know this. It isn't rocket science.

It's just strange how some people accept an entirely fabricated version of reality. Especially those I hold in esteem. It's baffling.



My boredom with it these days is that no matter what the story is, nothing ever changes. I've been coming to this forum for three years sober now and not a single thing has changed.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, November 11, 2019 2:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You know, in the Iraq days there was only one person on this board who TRULY believed that Iraq had WMD. He shall remain nameless, but the idea of Iraq having WMD rattled him to his bones, and left him with a case of PTSD that didn'tgo away for ... years, as far as I can tell.

Today, there is only one person on this board... JO ... who TRULY believes that Russia is the evil behind all distasteful events. Everyone else is just using it as a rationalization for "Why I hate Trump". And since Russia/racism/Ukraine/whatever are just rationalization, well, one rationalization is just as good as another and they can be easily interchanged.

It would e useful TO THESE PEOPLE if they did a little soul-searching as to why they TRULY hate Trump. I'm sure there are reasons, mostly emotional ones having nothing to do with current events, Trump, Russia, or anything else that's outside of their own personal demons. I have my own idea on why they feel the way they do (for example, THUGR is still trying to live down his dishonorable discharge by proving over and over again how loyal he is. As Frem said, we spend our adult lives fighting the battles we lost as children) but until they reach clarity about their own motivations I'm afarid their thinking will be all screwed up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, November 11, 2019 11:38 AM

THG


T


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Monday, November 11, 2019 11:39 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You know, in the Iraq days there was only one person on this board who TRULY believed that Iraq had WMD. He shall remain nameless, but the idea of Iraq having WMD rattled him to his bones, and left him with a case of PTSD that didn'tgo away for ... years, as far as I can tell.

Today, there is only one person on this board... JO ... who TRULY believes that Russia is the evil behind all distasteful events. Everyone else is just using it as a rationalization for "Why I hate Trump". And since Russia/racism/Ukraine/whatever are just rationalization, well, one rationalization is just as good as another and they can be easily interchanged.

It would e useful TO THESE PEOPLE if they did a little soul-searching as to why they TRULY hate Trump. I'm sure there are reasons, mostly emotional ones having nothing to do with current events, Trump, Russia, or anything else that's outside of their own personal demons. I have my own idea on why they feel the way they do (for example, THUGR is still trying to live down his dishonorable discharge by proving over and over again how loyal he is. As Frem said, we spend our adult lives fighting the battles we lost as children) but until they reach clarity about their own motivations I'm afarid their thinking will be all screwed up.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY



Sorry sig but its afraid not afarid. It should be didn't go not didn'tgo. It should be, be useful not e useful. You kiki and Jack insist upon perfection in writing when it suits you. So...
T



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Monday, November 11, 2019 11:52 AM

THG


What's coming in impeachment: The inquiry goes public

LIGHTS, CAMERAS, HEARINGS

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/whats-coming-in-impeachment-th
e-inquiry-goes-public/ar-BBWzT2q?ocid=spartandhp


tick tock

T



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Monday, November 11, 2019 2:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, November 11, 2019 2:14 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:


A billion flies eat shit.



And so must you...I say that because you seem to be fascinated by it. It shows up in all your posts. I guess it's a birds of a feather thing aye kiki?

T



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Monday, November 11, 2019 4:08 PM

THG


Oh no, it's that damn Mueller report again.
T



How Trump's Ukraine Conspiracy Backfired In The Impeachment Probe

Newly-released documents from the Mueller probe reveal Paul Manafort began pushing the debunked Ukraine conspiracy theory at the heart of Trump’s bribery plot as far back as 2016. Buzzfeed reporter Anthony Cormier joins Ari Melber to discuss how Trump and his allies tried to weaponize the debunked conspiracy and how it’s backfired on them.





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Monday, November 11, 2019 6:36 PM

THG


2 White House officials say Mulvaney helped coordinate Ukraine pressure campaign

Acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney helped to coordinate a pressure campaign against Ukraine, two top White House officials said they were told, according to testimony released Friday based on closed-door depositions.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/2-white-house-officials-say-mu
lvaney-helped-coordinate-ukraine-pressure-campaign/ar-BBWtwWN?ocid=spartanntp


tick tock tick tock

T



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Monday, November 11, 2019 10:13 PM

THG


T

Trump Aide Caves In Impeachment Suit Against Trump

Trump’s acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney withdraws his motion to intervene in the John Bolton’s deputy’s lawsuit. Mulvaney will file his own lawsuit as a separate case.


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Monday, November 11, 2019 11:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

Nobody cares.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019 10:52 AM

THG


T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019 3:01 PM

THG


Mulvaney won't sue over impeachment, declines to cooperate

WASHINGTON (AP) — White House acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said Tuesday that he no longer plans to sue over the House impeachment proceedings and will instead follow President Donald Trump's directions and decline to cooperate.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mulvaney-wont-sue-over-impeach
ment-declines-to-cooperate/ar-BBWEffL?ocid=spartandhp


Of course he isn't going to cooperate. It has been shown he is up to his neck in Trumps extortion plot.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019 4:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Meanwhile...

Trump's approval rating back up to 44% in the aggregate.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_app
roval-6179.html


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019 4:58 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Meanwhile...

Trump's approval rating back up to 44% in the aggregate.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_app
roval-6179.html


Do Right, Be Right. :)



See if my signature is working.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Meanwhile...

Trump's approval rating back up to 44% in the aggregate.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_app
roval-6179.html


Do Right, Be Right. :)



See if my signature is working.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.




TEST


Looks like you've got three open font color tags and only two closing them.




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 12, 2019 5:54 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Meanwhile...

Trump's approval rating back up to 44% in the aggregate.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_app
roval-6179.html


Do Right, Be Right. :)



See if my signature is working.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.




TEST


Looks like you've got three open font color tags and only two closing them.




Do Right, Be Right. :)



Try again...

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 7:08 PM

THG


T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.


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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 7:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:


Try again...

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.



TEST 2

Still the same problem but might be residual from the original post.


EDIT: Trying again without the old post.


I dunno. Probably good now. Why don't you just post something random here and I'll quote it again and see.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 8:26 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Its 70-30 that Trump will kik the buket befor Nov 3 2020. He iz showing all the sinez uv hypertension and with hiz wate, bad diet, aje, and the pressure uv being The Prez under impeachment (likely impeached by then), he iz ticking all the boxez for a major chest grabber.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 9:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Nah. He's cool. But feel free to add that delusion to the whole basket of deplorable things that swim around in your guys and gal's minds.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:34 PM

THG


Pelosi ups the ante on impeachment, accuses Trump of 'bribery'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pelosi-ups-the-ante-on-impeach
ment-accuses-trump-of-bribery/ar-BBWLhTk?ocid=spartandhp


T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Thursday, November 14, 2019 6:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 15, 2019 1:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What I find interesting is that only Rand Paul is willing to go off the Senate Republican reservation.

Quote:

https://summit.news/2019/11/15/rand-paul-to-initiate-senate-vote-to-fo
rce-hunter-biden-impeachment-testimony
/

Rand Paul To Initiate Senate Vote To Force Hunter Biden Impeachment Testimony

Senator Rand Paul threatened Thursday to trigger a vote that would force Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, to testify as a witness to the impeachment trial against President Trump.

“I believe very strongly the president should be able to call his own witnesses,” Paul told reporters.

What's behind this, is that in this whole SCHIFFTY process, republicans have been blocked from calling their own witnesses.



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Friday, November 15, 2019 2:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


For lack of a better spot, I'll put this here.

When Did Ukraine Become a ‘Critical Ally’?

“One would think, listening to this,” writes Barbara Boland, the American Conservative columnist, “that the U.S. had always provided arms to Ukraine, and that Ukraine has relied on this aid for years. But this is untrue and the Washington blob knows this.”

Indeed, Ukraine has never been a NATO ally or a “critical ally.”

Despite dramatic depictions of Ukraine as our embattled ally, Ukraine has never been an ally. We are not now nor have we ever been obligated to fight for its sovereignty or territorial integrity. Efforts to bring Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia into NATO have been repeatedly rebuffed in the United States and by our European NATO allies.


https://buchanan.org/blog/when-did-ukraine-become-a-critical-ally-1377
62

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Friday, November 15, 2019 2:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Friday, November 15, 2019 4:43 PM

THG


T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Friday, November 15, 2019 5:34 PM

THG


Staffer who overheard Trump call with Sondland testifies in closed hearing

David Holmes, the aide who overheard a phone call between U.S. Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland and President Trump, is testifying in a closed hearing with the House committees conducting the impeachment inquiry.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/staffer-who-overheard-trump-ca
ll-with-sondland-testifies-in-closed-hearing/ar-BBWPnui?ocid=spartandhp


Oh no Donnie, oh no...
T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Friday, November 15, 2019 9:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Anyway, this is a reasonable facsimile of my observations of DAY 1, without the bother of me having to type them out.
Quote:

Hearsay, Your Honor!

Watching Day 1 yesterday of the impeachment inquiry that isn’t one, I was thinking about an old children’s game, which is just as useful for adults, in which, in a wide circle of persons, no. 1 tells no. 2 a story, no. 2 tells no. 3, and so forth. If the total numbers of persons in the circle is large enough, it’s certain that the story, if it has enough details, will have changed unrecognizably by, say, no. 20.

That little game is a nice illustration of why you’ve all heard the words “Hearsay, Your Honor” spoken by some lawyer or another in 1000+ movies and TV series. And hearsay was all there was yesterday from “witnesses” Bill Taylor and George Kent. They are both “witnesses” who didn’t witness anything related to the hearing in course and neither ever met or spoke to President Trump, but both claim to know exactly what he was thinking, why he did what he did, and said what he said, based on things they heard from third parties, quite a few of whom remain anonymous.

Little of what they said would therefore be ruled admissible in a court of law. But the House inquiry is not a court of law. It can probably best be compared to a grand jury, a very one-sided format designed to let a prosecutor find and present enough evidence to let a case go to court. If Taylor and Kent had been in a court room, you would have heard “Hearsay, Your Honor” about once in every ten seconds. That gets old fast.

So why do we have this circus going on when it is obvious that round 2 (or 3, if you think the basement hearings were round 1), the Senate trial which must follow if the Dems decide to impeach Trump, has to acquit him because the House based its entire case on hearsay? I don’t know, but perhaps we see some of it in Democrat Rep. Mike Quigley (IL)’s statement: “Hearsay can be much better evidence than direct … and it’s certainly valid in this instance”

Democrat Rep. Mike Quigley (IL) on evidence: “Hearsay can be much better evidence than direct … and it’s certainly valid in this instance” pic.twitter.com/JD0Ui6acxD

— Ryan Saavedra (@RealSaavedra) November 13, 2019

Note that Quigley in that little video got shut down very rapidly in his enthusiasm for using hearsay by someone (I can’t see who) saying none of the exceptions he seemed to refer to applied to “this testimony”. And that’s the crux here: courts may have in the past, after much deliberation, allowed hearsay in specific cases, but Quigley tries to make it look as if that is now some general rule, and that is certainly not true.

Before I forget, something that struck me at the start yesterday was how both Adam Schiff and Bill Taylor in their openings emphasized their focus on Russia, while this case is not about that, but about Ukraine. And Russia Russia Russia has been shot down along with Robert Muller in his memorably awful “defense” of his failed report a few months ago.

Schiff’s opening words:

In 2014, Russia invaded a United States ally, Ukraine, to reverse that nation’s embrace of the West, and to fulfill Vladimir Putin’s desire to rebuild a Russian empire. In the following years, thirteen thousand Ukrainians died as they battled superior Russian forces.

There is so much wrong and debatable and leading and what not in just those few words, I don’t even know where to start. I guess perhaps I should be shouting out “Hearsay, Your Honor” at the top of my lungs. Then there’s Taylor:

After his opening statement, Taylor answers questions. He tells committee members: “If we withdraw or suspend or threaten to withdraw our security assistance” to Ukraine, it sends a “message to Ukrainians, but its just as important to the Russians who are looking for any sign of weakness”. “That affects us” he adds. It affects the world that we live in; that our children and grandchildren will grow up in,” he adds, appearing to become emotional. “Ukraine is on the front line of that conflict,” he concludes.

These statements are important because they tell us that Schiff and Taylor both see the world through the same glasses. The Russians are looking for signs of US weakness that they can use to advance their grand plan to (re) build a grand empire. That comes with the idea that the US didn’t cause the mayhem in Ukraine in 2014 with their coup, no, it was Russia which reacted so it wouldn’t lose its only warm water port.



Back to the hearing. Taylor said it was his “clear understanding” that President Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine until the Bidens and other matters were investigated. At the very least there is no proof of that. It’s much more likely from what we know today that Ukraine didn’t know Trump withheld the aid until after the July 25 phone call this whole thing rests on. It was suggested yesterday that they didn’t know until the end of August, but I’ve seen people claim that they knew a few weeks earlier. But Zelensky didn’t know on July 25, that we can agree on.

And anyway, this is merely Taylor’s opinion. Based on hearsay. Based on what some guy told him some other guy told him etc etc. And though Taylor never met Trump, the very idea of withholding aid to one of the most corrupt nations on the planet scares the heebees out of him because Russia Russia Russia.

Taylor is a career diplomat who has bought hook line and sinker into established US policy in the region, and who will defend it until his dying breath. And if that means going against the president of the country he allegedly serves, who has every right to rebalance that policy, Taylor will do it. That is what he was saying.

Taylor came close to matching Mueller’s uber-bumbling performance the other day, though he didn’t quite get there. Kent was not quite that bad, but he’s in the same camp, the same career field, and the same deep state, FBI-CIA controlled policy-making no matter who gets elected president. And looking at Bill Taylor, how can one not question the wisdom of people like him making decisions on matters such as that?

Republican counsel Steve Castor started off strong, at least from what I saw, but seemed to fizzle out a little because he became lost in his own one question every five seconds model. Perhaps it was the format, maximum time limits etc., which you don’t have in a courtroom. Jim Jordan did well, he just got named to the committee, but he could have been more effective as well. Still, this part was strong:

You didn’t listen in on President Trump & Zelensky’s call?

Taylor: I did not.

Jordan: You’ve never talked with Chief of Staff Mulvaney?

Taylor: I never did.

Jordan: You’ve never met the President?

Taylor: That’s correct.

Jordan: And you’re their star witness.

All in all, if you thought yesterday was a good day for the Democrats, for the inquiry, or for Adam Schiff, you really need to check a few fundamental issues. All Schiff managed to bring to the table was hearsay. And it’s only because of the grand jury-like format that he even gets to start day 2. No judge would have let him. But there is no judge, and there is no jury. There’s only an executioner.

PS I found this thing from the BBC intriguing and illustrative:

Bill Taylor, the acting US ambassador to Ukraine, said a member of his staff was told Mr Trump was preoccupied with pushing for a probe into Mr Biden. He was speaking at the first public hearings in the impeachment inquiry.


[..] During a detailed opening statement, Mr Taylor said a member of his staff had overheard a telephone call in which the president inquired about “the investigations” into Mr Biden. The call was with Gordon Sondland, the US ambassador to the European Union, who reportedly told the president over the phone from a restaurant in Kyiv that “the Ukrainians were ready to move forward”. After the call, the staff member “asked ambassador Sondland what President Trump thought about Ukraine”, Mr Taylor said. Mr Taylor said: “Ambassador Sondland responded that President Trump cares more about the investigations of Biden.”

First, it argues that a member of Taylor’s staff was told something by a third party, but later it changes to him/her hearing the president “live”. Albeit through an allegedly private phone call in which Trump may have sounded a bit loud. You want to impeach your president on the basis of a maybe overheard phone call that someone told you someone told someone else about?

By the way, that phone call allegedly was between Trump and Gordon Sondland, hotelier cum US ambassador to the EU, the same person who testified in the famous Schiff basement and whose laywer at some point contested Taylor’s statements about what Sondland told him, after which the latter went back to the basement to change his testimony. He said she said but then he said and then she said and so on.

What’s on the schedule for the circus today, is it the clowns or the elephants? I may take a day off. We have weeks more of this. And already I have no idea left of who told whom what.

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2019/11/hearsay-your-honor/


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Saturday, November 16, 2019 8:48 AM

THG


T

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Saturday, November 16, 2019 10:27 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...



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Saturday, November 16, 2019 11:15 AM

THG


That's way too funny G...

T


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Saturday, November 16, 2019 11:17 AM

THG


Impeachment witness provides firsthand account of hearing Trump demand ‘investigation’ of Bidens by Ukraine

David Holmes, an embassy staffer in Kyiv, testified that he overheard a July 26 phone call in which Trump pressed U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland about whether Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky would “do the investigation,” according to three people who have read his opening statement and spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe its contents.

“Ambassador Sondland replied that ‘he’s gonna do it,’ adding that President Zelensky will do ‘anything you ask him to,’?” Holmes said, according to these people.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/impeachment-witness-provides-f
irsthand-account-of-hearing-trump-demand-investigation-of-bidens-by-ukraine/ar-BBWOJ1m?ocid=spartanntp


tick tock


T


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Saturday, November 16, 2019 12:54 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:



Awwwwwwwww. Too bad.

Try not to get Epstiened while you're in there buddy.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 16, 2019 7:00 PM

THG


Trump’s core impeachment defense suffers a double blow — including a self-inflicted one

The idea that President Trump truly cared about corruption in Ukraine was always far-fetched. The only two investigations he has pushed for were ones in which he had a clear personal interest, and Trump hasn’t shown a similar interest in corruption in many other countries that received U.S. aid — including even more corrupt ones. Yet it’s an argument that Trump’s defenders keep trotting out for his impeachment defense.

Instead, though, the call undermined one of Trump’s chief defenses. It was quickly noted that the transcript didn’t match a public readout of the call provided by the White House, which said Trump told Zelensky that he was committed to working together to “strengthen democracy, increase prosperity, and root out corruption.” There is no mention of any of that on the call.

I then took the opportunity to ask Ambassador Sondland for his candid impression of the President’s views on Ukraine. In particular, I asked Ambassador Sondland if it was true that the President did not “give a s — t about Ukraine.” Ambassador Sondland agreed that the President did not “give a s — t about Ukraine.” I asked why not, and Ambassador Sondland stated that the President only cares about “big stuff.” I noted that there was “big stuff” going on in Ukraine, like a war with Russia, and Ambassador Sondland replied that he meant “big stuff” that benefits the President, like the “Biden investigation” that Mr. Giuliani was pushing. The conversation then moved on to other topics

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-trumps-core-impeachme
nt-defense-suffers-a-double-blow-—-including-a-self-inflicted-one/ar-BBWRyBa?ocid=spartandhp


tick tock

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 9:11 AM

THG


Pence aide testified that Trump’s efforts to pressure Ukraine were 'inappropriate'

A top national security aide to Vice President Mike Pence told House impeachment investigators that President Donald Trump’s efforts to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political opponents were “unusual and inappropriate,” and “shed some light on possible other motivations” for the president’s order to freeze military aid to the U.S. ally.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-aide-testified-that-trum
ps-efforts-to-pressure-ukraine-were-inappropriate/ar-BBWRWIA?ocid=spartandhp


There is no defense for Trump. Only the continued destruction of our Democratic institutions. This time it's the constitution.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 10:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Pence aide testified that Trump’s efforts to pressure Ukraine were 'inappropriate'

A top national security aide to Vice President Mike Pence told House impeachment investigators that President Donald Trump’s efforts to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political opponents were “unusual and inappropriate,” and “shed some light on possible other motivations” for the president’s order to freeze military aid to the U.S. ally.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pence-aide-testified-that-trum
ps-efforts-to-pressure-ukraine-were-inappropriate/ar-BBWRWIA?ocid=spartandhp


There is no defense for Trump. Only the continued destruction of our Democratic institutions. This time it's the constitution.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.




This ought to be good. Explain how it's the constitution this time.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 11:18 AM

THG


The Constitution Says ‘Bribery’ Is Impeachable. What Does That Mean?

The Founders had a broader conception of bribery than what’s in the criminal code. Their understanding was derived from English law, under which bribery was understood as an officeholder’s abuse of the power of an office to obtain a private benefit rather than for the public interest. This definition not only encompasses Trump’s conduct—it practically defines it.

The memorandum released by the White House describing that call—which is consistent with the accounts of the whistleblower complaint that first brought this scandal to light—reads like a classic shakedown.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/constitution-says-bribery-impeachable-what
-does-mean


If in the face of overwhelming evidence the senate fails to convict, then not only have they denied the constitution its due, but changed our concept of fair play in this country forever.

We would now have to allow for all future presidents to bribe, blackmail and extort the rest of the world leaders for personal gain further damaging our national security.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 11:21 AM

THG


Abuse of power, not criminality, key to Trump impeachment

(Reuters) - Democratic lawmakers have a strong case for impeaching U.S. President Donald Trump if they can prove he abused his power when he asked Ukraine’s president to “look into” an American political rival, several legal experts said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-legal-idUSK
BN1WC10L


T

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 11:26 AM

THG


Legal Information Institute

Article 11-Section 4

The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii

T

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 11:52 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
The Constitution Says ‘Bribery’ Is Impeachable. What Does That Mean?

The Founders had a broader conception of bribery than what’s in the criminal code. Their understanding was derived from English law, under which bribery was understood as an officeholder’s abuse of the power of an office to obtain a private benefit rather than for the public interest. This definition not only encompasses Trump’s conduct—it practically defines it.

The memorandum released by the White House describing that call—which is consistent with the accounts of the whistleblower complaint that first brought this scandal to light—reads like a classic shakedown.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/constitution-says-bribery-impeachable-what
-does-mean


If in the face of overwhelming evidence the senate fails to convict, then not only have they denied the constitution its due, but changed our concept of fair play in this country forever.

We would now have to allow for all future presidents to bribe, blackmail and extort the rest of the world leaders for personal gain further damaging our national security.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.




LOL, you can do better than that brother.

If they can impeach and remove a sitting president for a transcript of a phone call with a foreign nation that was taken wildly out of context, then expect absolutely zero meddling in foreign affairs for perpetuity. (I'm actually fully on board with that, personally, but this is exactly why this particular issue isn't going to get you anywhere).

We bribe foreign leaders with money from our printing presses every single day.

So much so, that Joe Biden very candidly was bragging about it very candidly in the open. That Biden footage wasn't from a closed door meeting.



Let's not even begin to discuss how you're taking a single sentence of the Constitution out of context in your desperate reach here.

They're talking about bribing the rich, bribing public officials, and other such national forms of bribery there, kiddo.



If we were going to be real, most presidents could be impeached and removed by bribing voters with freebies.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, November 17, 2019 9:05 PM

THG


Stop being a complete dick Jack. The call transcript isn't even one-fiftieth of the evidence.

T


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