REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Intellectual Pastimes

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 19:50
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Sunday, October 13, 2019 4:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


This was brought up in another thread.
I started by mentioning Jigsaw Puzzles.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"I just assumed everybody enjoyed them (jigsaw puzzles)." I like the challenging unique ones (for example, those with a non-rectangular shape), but not the 1000 piece ones with tons of blue sky and pieces that are virtually identically shaped, because those are just tedious. :)

OTOH the 3-d ones just fry my brain and are no fun at all !!

How about you?




Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd rather play Sudoku.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I kind of enjoy that, but once I developed a system it became less fun. Maybe I need to get myself a book of hard ones, that don't get solved so easily.

Something I like is freecell. Something I just started playing is an electronic version of 'go' set to 'hard'. Over the last 3 weeks, since I reset it from 'easy', skipping 'medium' and going all the way over to 'hard', plus giving it the first move, I've only won once. I've figured the trick is to take the corners, the question is what are the heuristics to manage to do that without having to think every move individually four or five steps ahead of time.


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Sunday, October 13, 2019 4:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"I just assumed everybody enjoyed them (jigsaw puzzles)." I like the challenging unique ones (for example, those with a non-rectangular shape), but not the 1000 piece ones with tons of blue sky and pieces that are virtually identically shaped, because those are just tedious. :)

OTOH the 3-d ones just fry my brain and are no fun at all !!

How about you?



My library recent set out one with some holographic print, only 500 pieces.
From Rose Art, called Magic Effects Collection.
Most of the holographics are white/gold/silver, depending upon which direction you are looking at it. It is interesting, needing to spin each piece in a way that matches to colors at the same angle of the other pieces. Fairly ordinary square pieces, 2 tabs & 2 sockets in opposing format. But it is interesting enough.



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Sunday, October 13, 2019 4:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd rather play Sudoku.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I kind of enjoy that, but once I developed a system it became less fun. Maybe I need to get myself a book of hard ones, that don't get solved so easily.

Something I like is freecell. Something I just started playing is an electronic version of 'go' set to 'hard'. Over the last 3 weeks, since I reset it from 'easy', skipping 'medium' and going all the way over to 'hard', plus giving it the first move, I've only won once. I've figured the trick is to take the corners, the question is what are the heuristics to manage to do that without having to think every move individually four or five steps ahead of time.

Try timing yourself on the heard ones. Or on each level of difficulty.


Dollar Tree has books of about 100 of them, each for a dollar. Get several of the same edition, and you can compete with friends, one the same exact puzzle.

I actually prefer Kakuro, which is sort of like a crossword puzzle with only numbers.
And Suduko More Or Less is fun, with few if any numbers filled in to staart, and each border line has an arrow showing greater or lesser value of the 2 adjoining numbers.

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Sunday, October 13, 2019 5:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I've never heard of Kakuro. I'll have to check that out.

I've mentioned before I'm huge into retro gaming, and I've got an extensive collection. That's how I first found out about the game that's typically called Shanghai, and quite a few variants based off that game. (There are probably as many variants of Shanghai as their are of Tetris).

What I didn't know, until after Brenda and I discussed our fondness for the game, is that it was an American made game in 1981.



During my collecting and cataloging, I came across a little known Japan only release on the original Nintendo called Shinkinjou. It also uses the Mahjong tiles, but it is more of a Sokoban type of game. (Sokoban, is a top down puzzle game where you need to push boxes into their final designated spots without backing them into corners. People in the US who had a gameboy when they were kids might be more familiar with the game Kwirk). I found this to be the most addicting Sokobon type game I've ever played, and I was sad when I had run out of puzzles to solve.

I only found it because of an English translation hack that was made on a place I frequent, otherwise this one would have gone under my radar. My hope is that somebody who is good at hacking finds this gem one day and adds more puzzles, along with doing a better job of balancing the difficulty. Maybe it was just how my mind works, but I'd find myself spending 30 minutes to a half hour trying to solve a single level at one point, only to beat the next 10 levels in 5 minutes.

I had also discovered a very late level in the game that was impossible to solve. I was confident that there was no possible legitimate solution to the level after about 20 minutes of playing it. I then found a video on youtube by somebody (not from America) who did a playthrough of the whole game and had timestamps for every 10 levels, but also had a specific time stamp for the level I'm talking about. Sure enough, they had to utilize a glitch to get past the level. At least I think it was a glitch, because it used a "warping" game mechanic that didn't make any sense and was never introduced in a prior level.

Anyhow, here's a video of the first level in action:



Aside from the unbalanced difficulty and the badly programmed level (somewhere around level 140), it's a wonderful game I'm glad I had a chance to play.



As for Sudoku, I quite enjoy a homebrew game for the NES called Suduko 2007. (Homebrew being the term for an original game created for a system by somebody who didn't make money off of it and is free to play in the Public Domain)

No pencil required. It keeps time for you, has loads of puzzles and allows you to choose your difficulty level and even go back to a puzzle you want next session by entering the puzzle number.





Another favorite game of mine is 2048. Once again, there are a few homebrew versions of this game for the NES that have come out in the last few years, but you can pretty much play that one on any system. Even your computer, so you can just click the following link and play with your arrow keys right now!

https://2048game.com/

Huge time waster, this one. Enjoy!


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, October 13, 2019 6:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Oh... a tip for 2048. Try to keep the highest numbers in one corner. It takes a while to figure out how to do it right, and also to push down your natural urge to chase blocks and screw that up, but your scores will be higher if you can manage it.

Here's a picture of my current game in action. Doing pretty well here.



I've never gotten to 2048 myself before, but I've had 1024 with a 512 on the board before. It starts getting cramped pretty quickly. :)



EDIT: Dang... I really don't have time for this at the moment, but I'm in the zone. Shortly after I said keep the high number in the corner I made a terrible mistake and put the 512 down and a 2 showed up in its place. I was able to save it though and got my 1024. Might have to put this one on pause for a while and hope I'm still in the zone when I come back to it.






EDIT 2: Dummy.... I rushed it. Oh well. 2048 eludes me once again...




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, October 14, 2019 4:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd rather play Sudoku.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I kind of enjoy that, but once I developed a system it became less fun. Maybe I need to get myself a book of hard ones, that don't get solved so easily.

Something I like is freecell. Something I just started playing is an electronic version of 'go' set to 'hard'. Over the last 3 weeks, since I reset it from 'easy', skipping 'medium' and going all the way over to 'hard', plus giving it the first move, I've only won once. I've figured the trick is to take the corners, the question is what are the heuristics to manage to do that without having to think every move individually four or five steps ahead of time.

Try timing yourself on the heard ones. Or on each level of difficulty.


Dollar Tree has books of about 100 of them, each for a dollar. Get several of the same edition, and you can compete with friends, one the same exact puzzle.

I actually prefer Kakuro, which is sort of like a crossword puzzle with only numbers.
And Suduko More Or Less is fun, with few if any numbers filled in to staart, and each border line has an arrow showing greater or lesser value of the 2 adjoining numbers.

Different publishers of Sudoku have widely different scales of difficulty.
Some of the hard category from one publisher has very hard and tedious solutions which are extremely inelegant. The inelegant ones are just trial-and-error types of solving, or else I have not found the elegant way through them. They remind me of the very first time I solved a Rubik's Cube, the bottom layer for ins and corners. But the Rubik's was more interesting.
I prefer those Sudokus with a fairly elegant solution, at the hardest level, and I time myself.

Many of those books of 100 I really just do the hardest of the 4 levels. But the range of difficulty jumps from 9 minutes on one puzzle to 56 minutes on the next. Then back to another 10 minute.
But I find the elegant puzzles help to supply mental gymnastics. After some time has elapsed (I cannot recall the solution or puzzle), I sometimes do the hard ones again to see if my times are slipping, or if I learned a new shortcut for solutions.

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Monday, October 14, 2019 4:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


What are the rules for playing 2048?




https://www.mindgames.com/game/Daily+Kakuro

The Kakuros in the puzzle books usually have grids of 16x16 to 25x25. But the books never have enough of them, and I have not found a Kakuro-only book. Yet.

Probably wouldn't appeal to the math-illiterate Millennials.

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Monday, October 14, 2019 7:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?



It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:

Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!



Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.




Very simple at first. Once you start making huge combos and have large numbers on the board it becomes much harder though as you really have to try to keep all of the highest numbers tucked away in a corner with the progressively smaller numbers surrounding it. This usually leaves you with only 3 directions to use at any time, and if you've backed yourself into using that 4th you either made a mistake or just got unlucky. Not the end of the world when your highest piece on the board is 64 to 512, since if you're good you can correct it, but if you're already at 1024 and you move it and your corner is replaced with a 2 or 4, you're going to have a hard time righting the ship.

Though the game is called 2048, I know of at least one person who's managed to get a 4096 before.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, October 14, 2019 7:59 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


My strategy to "go" ... never ever put a piece into the row that is 2nd to the edge. If you do, you give the opponent the oppty to place a piece along the edge and "flip" all of your pieces.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 8:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Just tried 2048 again and got too clever for my own good...

256 in the top right corner, 64's surrounding it, 16 - 32 - 16 on the next three diagonally, 8 - 8 - 8 from the top left corner, with only a 2 in the bottom right corner. Random luck screwed me with 2's and 4's all in the wrong spots.

Guess you need to take care of those smaller ones early and not let them build up like a pyramid, even if it means getting some low tiles in the mix. I've changed the way I play it after watching some videos on it. It's a learning process.


I'm wondering what the highest possible score is. If somebody were to have perfect luck and play perfectly every single step of the way, the game will still have to end eventually.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?




https://www.mindgames.com/game/Daily+Kakuro

The Kakuros in the puzzle books usually have grids of 16x16 to 25x25. But the books never have enough of them, and I have not found a Kakuro-only book. Yet.

Probably wouldn't appeal to the math-illiterate Millennials.

My mistake, the grids were 14x14 for Kakuro.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?

It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:
Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!

Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not find much rules, until you posted this. The rules as written seemed to indicate that when 2 of the 2's came together, they would be replaced by a single 2.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If somebody were to have perfect luck and play perfectly every single step of the way, the game will still have to end eventually.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

fwiw One of the things I do with a new game is figure out if it's always winnable, or if there are uncontrollable ways you can lose. Especially with computer games, when the computer starts you with a new setup every time, and you can't play the same game over and over to test out different strategies, figuring if it's a winnable type of game or not makes a difference in how you play. If it's a game you can always win, you need to strategize your specific moves ahead of time. If it's a game where you can be dished random unwinnable conditions, at each play all you need to do is (identify and) play what I think of as 'high probability moves' - moves that will most often succeed - in order to maximize your score before you crash and burn.

It sounds like 2048 is one of those games where you can get conditions where you're destined to lose. But trying to figure out if there's a max score assuming perfection is an interesting question. It would be interesting to try to figure that out.

ETA: fwiw a game I like to play has a random distribution of blocking moves, but assuming perfection, theoretically, one could score an infinitely high score.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If somebody were to have perfect luck and play perfectly every single step of the way, the game will still have to end eventually.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

fwiw One of the things I do with a new game is figure out if it's always winnable, or if there are uncontrollable ways you can lose. Especially with computer games, when the computer starts you with a new setup every time, and you can't play the same game over and over to test out different strategies, figuring if it's a winnable type of game or not makes a difference in how you play. If it's a game you can always win, you need to strategize your specific moves ahead of time. If it's a game where you can be dished random unwinnable conditions, at each play all you need to do is (identify and) play what I think of as 'high probability moves' - moves that will most often succeed - in order to maximize your score before you crash and burn.

It sounds like 2048 is one of those games where you can get conditions where you're destined to lose. But trying to figure out if there's a max score assuming perfection is an interesting question. It would be interesting to try to figure that out.



2048 is only "winnable" in that the name of the game is 2048 and you "win" by getting a tile with that number on it. Like I said, I know that somebody has gotten a 4096 on it before, or at least claims to have gotten it, but the game absolutely will come to an end no matter what.

I couldn't tell you what tiles would be on the board if you got the perfect luck and played the perfect game, but if you worked backwards you see that there would come a time where every single spot on the board save for a blank spot contained a tile that was larger than 4 and none of the tiles in any direction could be moved to merge with another one, and the only move left to you would not allow you to further merge any of those tiles to create a higher number. Once those conditions were met, the next move in any direction would fill the last piece of the board with a random 2 or 4 that you couldn't merge with anything.

I wonder if there is some sort of game theory about this where somebody has mathematically figured out the answer to what the perfect end board and score would be.

(Admittedly, I'm not very good at math beyond basic stuff that is actually useful for things like budgeting and taxes, so what seems like a mystery to me might actually be easy to figure out by somebody with a high level math skill).


Oh yeah... I forgot to mention one of the most important rules, which I will also reply to JSF to make sure he knows it too.



I guess the most important rule would be about scoring. I never really gave the score any thought before since my only goal really is "winning" the game and getting 2048. I figured I'd pay attention to the score after that since 4096 is a pretty insane goal. Points are simple. When two tiles merge, you just add them up and/or get the score of the newly created title added to your total.

2+2 = 4
4+4 = 8
8+8 = 20
etc...

If you're not paying attention, like I wasn't, it might seem that you're getting more points than this when you make a move... but that's because you are. You were simply focusing on two tiles that merged in a move but didn't notice at least two other tiles merging at the same time.





BTW... it seems that reddit has a topic about the highest theoretical possible score, but it doesn't look like they came to a conclusion that everyone agrees with.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22803247/in-the-game-2048-what-is-
the-biggest-theoretical-tile



Quote:

ETA: fwiw a game I like to play has a random distribution of blocking moves, but assuming perfection, theoretically, one could score an infinitely high score.


I wouldn't worry about not liking the game because there is no possible theoretical way to have an infinitely high score. I seriously doubt that any human will ever get the perfect game. Even if somebody played perfectly, I would assume that the odds of getting the correct random element involved to make the absolute perfect game happen would be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction and that person could play 2048 every minute for the rest of their life and never make those two things happen together in a single play through.



FWIW... The randomness is implemented through coding referred to as RNG (Random Number Generator). It's a system that has been used in video game programming for decades.

RNG has long been the bane of the "Speed Running" community, who make it their life's mission to absolutely destroy games we all grew up with and hold the world records of the fastest times (cataloged by a site called Twin Galaxies and also recognized by Guinness Book).

A frequent joke among these runners is that they pray to RNGesus before their next attempt.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?

It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:
Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!

Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not find much rules, until you posted this. The rules as written seemed to indicate that when 2 of the 2's came together, they would be replaced by a single 2.



Yeah. I don't know why they don't have better written rules about it.

Like I said though, it's an extremely simple game to pick up as far as the concept and rules. You could play a game or two and have most of them figured out for yourself, I would imagine. It's the developing of a strategy and figuring out ways to deal with the unexpected that will take a long time to master.


BTW... Wanted to post this part to you as well regarding the rules in case you don't read my reply to Kiki. I forgot a rule...


I guess the most important rule would be about scoring. I never really gave the score any thought before since my only goal really is "winning" the game and getting 2048. I figured I'd pay attention to the score after that since 4096 is a pretty insane goal. Points are simple. When two tiles merge, you just add them up and/or get the score of the newly created title added to your total.

2+2 = 4
4+4 = 8
8+8 = 20
etc...

If you're not paying attention, like I wasn't, it might seem that you're getting more points than this when you make a move... but that's because you are. You were simply focusing on two tiles that merged in a move but didn't notice at least two other tiles merging at the same time.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 10:07 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Oooooh.... Interesting.

I may have developed a new strategy. I'm going to have to see if this works well when you start getting larger tiles.

Not only am I keeping the largest tile in a corner at all costs (which means you can only use 3 out of the 4 directions at any time, and also requires you to always be planning ahead), but instead of "pyramid-ing" the smaller numbers around it, I (organically) chose this time to make the decending numbers all on the same horizontal line, then on the 2nd line I'm doing the same thing down, but in the reverse order.

(You could also choose to do this on vertical lines too, if you prefer. My mind seems to gravitate to the horizontal method though, it would appear).

At least with the small tiles, this seems to be working out great so far.

When you pyramid them, you're at the mercy of randomness a lot more, and you're at risk of allowing lower tiles in spots you don't want them and they can get buried when you need to make a shift to try to put some of those lower numbers together. If you "snake" the numbers around in descending order, you have a lot more liberty to not care so much about the random factor.

Here's a picture of where I'm at now and what I'm talking about...




Going to have to see if this is a good strategy later in the game too.



It's actually kind of cool playing this on the computer. I've never done that before and only played with a controller on a Nintendo emulator. There's something different about playing in this setting that is making me analyze things a lot more and not just do the same thing over and over and over again.









EDIT:

Nice!



Do you see what just happened here?

A left press is going to give me 32, 8, 2 on the second line. And 4, 4 on the third line. (And whatever random 2 or 4 that pops up wherever).

But then, regardless of what other moves are available that may make me deviate slightly in between, I'm completely free to press up once to make 64 with my two 32s, then press right to make 128 with my two 64s, press right again to make 256 with my two 128s and finally press right again to make 512 with my two 256s.

This immediately makes my board much more clear for whatever randomness shows up until I start getting my big numbers again. I'm going to have to see how easy and intuitive it is to repeat the "snake" method in the future, and see if it works out well with higher numbers.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, October 16, 2019 4:12 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'm sorry, I missed this. Sometimes the website will interpolate a post after the fact, and I guess I just didn't go back far enough to catch your post.

It's a really good idea. DUH. Why didn't I think of that?

I tried it out though, and on my 8x8 square, after a few moves there's really nowhere else to go. So if it works for you, you might be doing something different not entirely captured by your words.
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
My strategy to "go" ... never ever put a piece into the row that is 2nd to the edge. If you do, you give the opponent the oppty to place a piece along the edge and "flip" all of your pieces.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY


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Wednesday, October 16, 2019 3:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If somebody were to have perfect luck and play perfectly every single step of the way, the game will still have to end eventually.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

fwiw One of the things I do with a new game is figure out if it's always winnable, or if there are uncontrollable ways you can lose. Especially with computer games, when the computer starts you with a new setup every time, and you can't play the same game over and over to test out different strategies, figuring if it's a winnable type of game or not makes a difference in how you play. If it's a game you can always win, you need to strategize your specific moves ahead of time. If it's a game where you can be dished random unwinnable conditions, at each play all you need to do is (identify and) play what I think of as 'high probability moves' - moves that will most often succeed - in order to maximize your score before you crash and burn.

It sounds like 2048 is one of those games where you can get conditions where you're destined to lose. But trying to figure out if there's a max score assuming perfection is an interesting question. It would be interesting to try to figure that out.

ETA: fwiw a game I like to play has a random distribution of blocking moves, but assuming perfection, theoretically, one could score an infinitely high score.

For 2048, figuring out a perfect game is easy, but the exact scoring is another matter. I'll mention that in another post.


If a perfect game was played, then the end result is easy to see. I am not saying that this hypothetical perfect game is actually possible, just what it would look like at the end. I have no plans to waste my time watching reddit idjits argue about it.
There are actually 2 examples, perhaps 3. This is because of the possibility of either 2 or 4 being generated randomly at the end.
If the tiles are arranged or stacked such that the highest value is in a corner, and all subsequent tiles are adjacent, in a format which 6ix calls a snake style, then the high value corner tile could be 65536.

The next adjacent tile would be 32768.
Next Tile 16384.
Then 8192.
Next adjacent tile, in the next row, is 4096.
Then 2048.
Then 1024, 512.
Next row is 256, 128, 64, 32.
Last row is 16, 8, 4.
And then there is one open spot. If the random number is generated as 2, then this is the end of this game. There are no 2 tiles of the same value that can merge.

However, if the last one spot is filled by a 4 instead of 2, then the two 4s can merge to 8, and all of the tiles can merge up to 131072. After this, there are not enough tiles n the grid to create another tile 131072.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2019 3:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?

It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:
Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!

Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not find much rules, until you posted this. The rules as written seemed to indicate that when 2 of the 2's came together, they would be replaced by a single 2.

Yeah. I don't know why they don't have better written rules about it.

Like I said though, it's an extremely simple game to pick up as far as the concept and rules. You could play a game or two and have most of them figured out for yourself, I would imagine. It's the developing of a strategy and figuring out ways to deal with the unexpected that will take a long time to master.


BTW... Wanted to post this part to you as well regarding the rules in case you don't read my reply to Kiki. I forgot a rule...


I guess the most important rule would be about scoring. I never really gave the score any thought before since my only goal really is "winning" the game and getting 2048. I figured I'd pay attention to the score after that since 4096 is a pretty insane goal. Points are simple. When two tiles merge, you just add them up and/or get the score of the newly created title added to your total.

2+2 = 4
4+4 = 8
8+8 = 20
etc...

If you're not paying attention, like I wasn't, it might seem that you're getting more points than this when you make a move... but that's because you are. You were simply focusing on two tiles that merged in a move but didn't notice at least two other tiles merging at the same time.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

If I understand the rules for scoring correctly, the top score is dependent upon the random numbers being generated - specifically, the ratio of the number of 2s being generated vs. the number of 4s being generated.

You say that 8 + 8 = 20. Is this using the Libtard Maths common in this forum, or is there some bonus calculation in the game that goes from 8+8=16 to an additional 4 points giving 16+4=20?


I'll start with the assumption that 8+8=16. (merging two 8 tiles adds 16 to the score).

A 131072 tile merged 2 of the 65536 tiles. Score 131072 from this merge alone.
2 of the 65536 tiles were created from merging 4 of the 32768 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game, from merging these 4 tiles.
4 of the 32768 tiles were created from merging 8 of the 16384 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game.
8 of the 16384 tiles were created from merging 16 of the 8192 tiles. Scored 131072.
16 of 8192 tiles from 32 of the 4096 tiles. Scored 131072.
32 of 4096 tiles from 64 of the 2048 tiles. Scored 131072.
64 of 2048 tiles from 128 of the 1024 tiles. Scored 131072.
128 of the 1024 tiles from 256 of the 512 tiles. Scored 131072.
256 of the 512 tiles from 512 of the 256 tiles. Scored 131072.
512 of 256 tiles from 1024 of the 128 tiles. Scored 131072.
1024 of 128 tiles from 2048 of the 64 tiles. Scored 131072.
2048 of 64 tiles from 4096 of the 32 tiles. Scored 131072.
4096 of 32 tiles from 8192 of the 16 tiles. Scored 131072.
8192 of 16 tiles from 16384 of the 8 tiles. Scored 131072.
16384 of 8 tiles from 32768 of the 4 tiles. Scored 131072.

So if no 2s were generated as fill during the entire game, and only 4s were generated, then the score accumulated to get to one 131072 tile would be 15 levels of tile value times 131072, for a total of 1,966,180.

On the other hand, if no 4s were generated and only 2s were generated, then the 32768 of the 4 tiles were created from merging 65536 of the 2 tiles. Scored another 131072 during the course of the game. Total of 2,097,252.
This supposition is theoretical, for if no 4s were generated, then no 131072 tile could have been created.

Therefore, to create a 131072 tile in the game, between 1966180 and 2097252 points would be scored. The exact figure would depend upon how many of the generated filler numbers were 2s and how many were 4s.


If the game ended as I posited in the first example, without being allowed to create the 131072 tile, then the total score would be 262140 less (-131072 - 65536 - 32768 - 16384 - 8192 - 4094 - 2048 - 1024 - 512 - 256 - 128 - 64 - 32 - 16 - 8 - 4).


If the 131072 tile was achieved, and then all tiles continued to be backfilled with 65536, 32768, 16384, (next row) 8192, 4096, 2048, 1024, (next row) 512, 256, 128, 64, (final row) 32, 16, 8, 4; then the total score would be in the range 3,407,876 to 3,670,020 - again, depending upon how many 2s were generated compared to how many 4s were generated.


I hope that explains it well enough.

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Wednesday, October 16, 2019 8:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Last night I played a 2nd game, got a 1024 tile before the computer shut down.

Tried on my phone, but it crashes the browser.
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
EDIT:

Nice!



Do you see what just happened here?

A left press is going to give me 32, 8, 2 on the second line. And 4, 4 on the third line. (And whatever random 2 or 4 that pops up wherever).

But then, regardless of what other moves are available that may make me deviate slightly in between, I'm completely free to press up once to make 64 with my two 32s, then press right to make 128 with my two 64s, press right again to make 256 with my two 128s and finally press right again to make 512 with my two 256s.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

You said you are completely free to press left, up, right, right, right.
But I think it would be better to:
press Left to get 32 64 128 256, 32 8 2 sp, 4 4.
Left to get 32 64 128 256, 32 8 2 (sp), 8.
Up to get 64 64 128 256, 8 8 2 (sp).
then left to get 128 128 256 (sp), 16 2 (sp) (sp).
then left to get 256 256 (sp) (sp), 16 2 (sp) (sp).
then left to get 512 (sp) (sp) (sp), 16 2.
Then you have the 512 in the corner, and the next highest tile of 16 adjacent to it, albeit in a vertical column instead of horizontal.

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Thursday, October 17, 2019 4:43 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I tried a 3rd game of 2048 last night. Got to 1024 tile before computer shut down.

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Thursday, October 17, 2019 4:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"I just assumed everybody enjoyed them (jigsaw puzzles)." I like the challenging unique ones (for example, those with a non-rectangular shape), but not the 1000 piece ones with tons of blue sky and pieces that are virtually identically shaped, because those are just tedious. :)

OTOH the 3-d ones just fry my brain and are no fun at all !!

How about you?

My library recent set out one with some holographic print, only 500 pieces.
From Rose Art, called Magic Effects Collection.
Most of the holographics are white/gold/silver, depending upon which direction you are looking at it. It is interesting, needing to spin each piece in a way that matches to colors at the same angle of the other pieces. Fairly ordinary square pieces, 2 tabs & 2 sockets in opposing format. But it is interesting enough.

I've tried some of the 3-D ones, they are interesting as a novelty, not exactly the same solving process as flat.


I also find some tedious. Past year did a 2000 piece with about 1/4 black/shadow, about 1/4 blurry out of focus green/blue forest background, about 1/5 blue skies. Many pieces fit into the same spot as another piece. Only a couple dozen pieces not in the standard format of 2 opposing tabs, 2 opposing sockets. I thought about quitting it several times, but I wanted to find out how many pieces were missing, and where. There were about 6 pieces missing. Had to use many of the tricks. Backing was no help. Had to wait until sunset to get the natural light coming in to distinguish matching color schemes which didn't show in 60Hz light. Then had to wait until night to turn off lights, use only flashlight at extreme angle to further show matching colors among the blacks and green/blues. Had to sort many times by depth of focus, direction of shadow, etc. I try to avoid those. But that one had a large central feature which was OK. In fact, I have 3 different puzzles of different sizes with that same Chateau as subject.

Circles and ovals are enjoyable, as the pieces are fairy unique and only able to fit in one way and place.
Even if rectangular, if the pieces at least are unique shapes, that is more fun (less tedious).
Some of the more interesting are those which are different than what the cover art shows. Some with sections or segments which are rearranged, and/or different background color or subject color, reversed, different sizes, and some with features on the puzzle which are completely missing from the cover image.


few months ago one library had one almost all gray. I did the parts that were not gray, and the outer border.


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Thursday, October 17, 2019 8:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


6ix, have you found a free off-line version of 2048, downloadable to a mobile device?


Did you try Kakuro yet?

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Friday, October 18, 2019 3:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I have two free ones for the NES if you have an NES emulator to play them on.

That was my first exposure to the game. I didn't even find out about the original online game until way after I had the NES versions. I'm not aware of any PC based offline version, and I don't have a mobile phone so I couldn't tell you on that front. I'm sure there is something if you look hard enough. Hell... I'm sure there's a version you could pay a few bucks for on the phone. Would probably be worthwhile to buy it and have it on the go if you like it.




The 8+8 mistake was a remnant that I forgot to change when I was originally trying to see what the scoring was. I had moved two 8's into each other and got a +20, not realizing that I had also moved two 2's together at the same time. I fixed the first two but forgot to fix the 8's.


I almost had 2048 the other day. I had the 1024, 512, 256, 128 and two 64's, but I had screwed up a move much earlier and moved the 1024 into one of the center tiles. I was actually surprised that I was able to keep the game alive that long. I was about 3 moves away from saving it and getting the 3rd 64 tile that was necessary to merge into the one by the 128 since it was impossible for me to get the two 64s that I had together. But I got some bad random luck at the end and just ran out of free spaces. Never paid much attention to scoring before that, and I don't remember the exact score but I believe it was just over 16,300.




I have not tried Kakuro yet.


EDIT: Just tried it, and couldn't figure out the solution on a 9x9 grid. I misread the instructions and thought you couldn't use the same digit twice at all, but finally I clicked on the solution and realized that you can use the same number twice, just not for any sum of numbers. Seems like a cool alternate to Sudoku. I'll have to play that one more.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, October 19, 2019 2:43 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?

It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:
Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!

Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not find much rules, until you posted this. The rules as written seemed to indicate that when 2 of the 2's came together, they would be replaced by a single 2.

Yeah. I don't know why they don't have better written rules about it.

Like I said though, it's an extremely simple game to pick up as far as the concept and rules. You could play a game or two and have most of them figured out for yourself, I would imagine. It's the developing of a strategy and figuring out ways to deal with the unexpected that will take a long time to master.


BTW... Wanted to post this part to you as well regarding the rules in case you don't read my reply to Kiki. I forgot a rule...


I guess the most important rule would be about scoring. I never really gave the score any thought before since my only goal really is "winning" the game and getting 2048. I figured I'd pay attention to the score after that since 4096 is a pretty insane goal. Points are simple. When two tiles merge, you just add them up and/or get the score of the newly created title added to your total.

2+2 = 4
4+4 = 8
8+8 = 20
etc...

If you're not paying attention, like I wasn't, it might seem that you're getting more points than this when you make a move... but that's because you are. You were simply focusing on two tiles that merged in a move but didn't notice at least two other tiles merging at the same time.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

If I understand the rules for scoring correctly, the top score is dependent upon the random numbers being generated - specifically, the ratio of the number of 2s being generated vs. the number of 4s being generated.

You say that 8 + 8 = 20. Is this using the Libtard Maths common in this forum, or is there some bonus calculation in the game that goes from 8+8=16 to an additional 4 points giving 16+4=20?


I'll start with the assumption that 8+8=16. (merging two 8 tiles adds 16 to the score).

A 131072 tile merged 2 of the 65536 tiles. Score 131072 from this merge alone.
2 of the 65536 tiles were created from merging 4 of the 32768 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game, from merging these 4 tiles.
4 of the 32768 tiles were created from merging 8 of the 16384 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game.
8 of the 16384 tiles were created from merging 16 of the 8192 tiles. Scored 131072.
16 of 8192 tiles from 32 of the 4096 tiles. Scored 131072.
32 of 4096 tiles from 64 of the 2048 tiles. Scored 131072.
64 of 2048 tiles from 128 of the 1024 tiles. Scored 131072.
128 of the 1024 tiles from 256 of the 512 tiles. Scored 131072.
256 of the 512 tiles from 512 of the 256 tiles. Scored 131072.
512 of 256 tiles from 1024 of the 128 tiles. Scored 131072.
1024 of 128 tiles from 2048 of the 64 tiles. Scored 131072.
2048 of 64 tiles from 4096 of the 32 tiles. Scored 131072.
4096 of 32 tiles from 8192 of the 16 tiles. Scored 131072.
8192 of 16 tiles from 16384 of the 8 tiles. Scored 131072.
16384 of 8 tiles from 32768 of the 4 tiles. Scored 131072.

So if no 2s were generated as fill during the entire game, and only 4s were generated, then the score accumulated to get to one 131072 tile would be 15 levels of tile value times 131072, for a total of 1,966,180.

On the other hand, if no 4s were generated and only 2s were generated, then the 32768 of the 4 tiles were created from merging 65536 of the 2 tiles. Scored another 131072 during the course of the game. Total of 2,097,252.
This supposition is theoretical, for if no 2s were generated, then no 131072 tile could have been created.

Therefore, to create a 131072 tile in the game, between 1966180 and 2097252 points would be scored. The exact figure would depend upon how many of the generated filler numbers were 2s and how many were 4s.


If the game ended as I posited in the first example, without being allowed to create the 131072 tile, then the total score would be 262140 less (-131072 - 65536 - 32768 - 16384 - 8192 - 4094 - 2048 - 1024 - 512 - 256 - 128 - 64 - 32 - 16 - 8 - 4).


If the 131072 tile was achieved, and then all tiles continued to be backfilled with 65536, 32768, 16384, (next row) 8192, 4096, 2048, 1024, (next row) 512, 256, 128, 64, (final row) 32, 16, 8, 4; then the total score would be in the range 3,407,876 to 3,670,020 - again, depending upon how many 2s were generated compared to how many 4s were generated.


I hope that explains it well enough.

Do you understand these? Do they make sense to you? I cannot fathom why reddit idjits would argue beyond these conclusions.

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Saturday, October 19, 2019 2:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If somebody were to have perfect luck and play perfectly every single step of the way, the game will still have to end eventually.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

fwiw One of the things I do with a new game is figure out if it's always winnable, or if there are uncontrollable ways you can lose. Especially with computer games, when the computer starts you with a new setup every time, and you can't play the same game over and over to test out different strategies, figuring if it's a winnable type of game or not makes a difference in how you play. If it's a game you can always win, you need to strategize your specific moves ahead of time. If it's a game where you can be dished random unwinnable conditions, at each play all you need to do is (identify and) play what I think of as 'high probability moves' - moves that will most often succeed - in order to maximize your score before you crash and burn.

It sounds like 2048 is one of those games where you can get conditions where you're destined to lose. But trying to figure out if there's a max score assuming perfection is an interesting question. It would be interesting to try to figure that out.

ETA: fwiw a game I like to play has a random distribution of blocking moves, but assuming perfection, theoretically, one could score an infinitely high score.

I did something similar with the old Minesweeper. To eliminate games which were not logically deducible, I would open each game with something like 4 or 6 random clicks. If that was not successful, then I didn't need to waste time on it.

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Sunday, October 20, 2019 3:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?

It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:
Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!

Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not find much rules, until you posted this. The rules as written seemed to indicate that when 2 of the 2's came together, they would be replaced by a single 2.

Yeah. I don't know why they don't have better written rules about it.

Like I said though, it's an extremely simple game to pick up as far as the concept and rules. You could play a game or two and have most of them figured out for yourself, I would imagine. It's the developing of a strategy and figuring out ways to deal with the unexpected that will take a long time to master.


BTW... Wanted to post this part to you as well regarding the rules in case you don't read my reply to Kiki. I forgot a rule...


I guess the most important rule would be about scoring. I never really gave the score any thought before since my only goal really is "winning" the game and getting 2048. I figured I'd pay attention to the score after that since 4096 is a pretty insane goal. Points are simple. When two tiles merge, you just add them up and/or get the score of the newly created title added to your total.

2+2 = 4
4+4 = 8
8+8 = 20
etc...

If you're not paying attention, like I wasn't, it might seem that you're getting more points than this when you make a move... but that's because you are. You were simply focusing on two tiles that merged in a move but didn't notice at least two other tiles merging at the same time.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

If I understand the rules for scoring correctly, the top score is dependent upon the random numbers being generated - specifically, the ratio of the number of 2s being generated vs. the number of 4s being generated.

You say that 8 + 8 = 20. Is this using the Libtard Maths common in this forum, or is there some bonus calculation in the game that goes from 8+8=16 to an additional 4 points giving 16+4=20?


I'll start with the assumption that 8+8=16. (merging two 8 tiles adds 16 to the score).

A 131072 tile merged 2 of the 65536 tiles. Score 131072 from this merge alone.
2 of the 65536 tiles were created from merging 4 of the 32768 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game, from merging these 4 tiles.
4 of the 32768 tiles were created from merging 8 of the 16384 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game.
8 of the 16384 tiles were created from merging 16 of the 8192 tiles. Scored 131072.
16 of 8192 tiles from 32 of the 4096 tiles. Scored 131072.
32 of 4096 tiles from 64 of the 2048 tiles. Scored 131072.
64 of 2048 tiles from 128 of the 1024 tiles. Scored 131072.
128 of the 1024 tiles from 256 of the 512 tiles. Scored 131072.
256 of the 512 tiles from 512 of the 256 tiles. Scored 131072.
512 of 256 tiles from 1024 of the 128 tiles. Scored 131072.
1024 of 128 tiles from 2048 of the 64 tiles. Scored 131072.
2048 of 64 tiles from 4096 of the 32 tiles. Scored 131072.
4096 of 32 tiles from 8192 of the 16 tiles. Scored 131072.
8192 of 16 tiles from 16384 of the 8 tiles. Scored 131072.
16384 of 8 tiles from 32768 of the 4 tiles. Scored 131072.

So if no 2s were generated as fill during the entire game, and only 4s were generated, then the score accumulated to get to one 131072 tile would be 15 levels of tile value times 131072, for a total of 1,966,180.

On the other hand, if no 4s were generated and only 2s were generated, then the 32768 of the 4 tiles were created from merging 65536 of the 2 tiles. Scored another 131072 during the course of the game. Total of 2,097,252.
This supposition is theoretical, for if no 2s were generated, then no 131072 tile could have been created.

Therefore, to create a 131072 tile in the game, between 1966180 and 2097252 points would be scored. The exact figure would depend upon how many of the generated filler numbers were 2s and how many were 4s.


If the game ended as I posited in the first example, without being allowed to create the 131072 tile, then the total score would be 262140 less (-131072 - 65536 - 32768 - 16384 - 8192 - 4094 - 2048 - 1024 - 512 - 256 - 128 - 64 - 32 - 16 - 8 - 4).


If the 131072 tile was achieved, and then all tiles continued to be backfilled with 65536, 32768, 16384, (next row) 8192, 4096, 2048, 1024, (next row) 512, 256, 128, 64, (final row) 32, 16, 8, 4; then the total score would be in the range 3,407,876 to 3,670,020 - again, depending upon how many 2s were generated compared to how many 4s were generated.


I hope that explains it well enough.

Did you agree with 131072?

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Sunday, October 20, 2019 3:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If somebody were to have perfect luck and play perfectly every single step of the way, the game will still have to end eventually.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

fwiw One of the things I do with a new game is figure out if it's always winnable, or if there are uncontrollable ways you can lose. Especially with computer games, when the computer starts you with a new setup every time, and you can't play the same game over and over to test out different strategies, figuring if it's a winnable type of game or not makes a difference in how you play. If it's a game you can always win, you need to strategize your specific moves ahead of time. If it's a game where you can be dished random unwinnable conditions, at each play all you need to do is (identify and) play what I think of as 'high probability moves' - moves that will most often succeed - in order to maximize your score before you crash and burn.

It sounds like 2048 is one of those games where you can get conditions where you're destined to lose. But trying to figure out if there's a max score assuming perfection is an interesting question. It would be interesting to try to figure that out.

ETA: fwiw a game I like to play has a random distribution of blocking moves, but assuming perfection, theoretically, one could score an infinitely high score.

I also dislike Sudoku puzzles which have more than one solution. I consider them poorly made.

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Sunday, October 20, 2019 3:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I also dislike Sudoku puzzles which have more than one solution. I consider them poorly made.

I've only run across one of those myself! One of the people I worked with was a Sudoku puzzle creator on the side. He said that if you create the puzzle and leave - I forget what the minimum number of numbers was (sigh, my memory) - it would always be solvable. But iirc he didn't know the mathematics behind it. As to how they grade them for difficulty, I have NO idea!

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Sunday, October 20, 2019 7:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What are the rules for playing 2048?

It's one of those "takes only a minute to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" kind of deals, I think.

The rules on the site are as follows:
Quote:

Join the numbers and get to the 2048 tile!

How to play: Use your arrow keys to move the tiles. When two tiles with the same number touch, they merge into one!

Basically, you start the 4x4 grid with two tiles in any random place. They are either two 2's, two 4's, or one 2 and one 4.

Your only 4 options at any point are to press right, left, up or down.

When you press in any direction, all tiles in play will move as far as they can in that direction. Any tiles of the same number will merge and become a single tile with double that value.

Whenever you make a move, a random 2 or 4 will also appear on any random open spot left on the board.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I did not find much rules, until you posted this. The rules as written seemed to indicate that when 2 of the 2's came together, they would be replaced by a single 2.

Yeah. I don't know why they don't have better written rules about it.

Like I said though, it's an extremely simple game to pick up as far as the concept and rules. You could play a game or two and have most of them figured out for yourself, I would imagine. It's the developing of a strategy and figuring out ways to deal with the unexpected that will take a long time to master.


BTW... Wanted to post this part to you as well regarding the rules in case you don't read my reply to Kiki. I forgot a rule...


I guess the most important rule would be about scoring. I never really gave the score any thought before since my only goal really is "winning" the game and getting 2048. I figured I'd pay attention to the score after that since 4096 is a pretty insane goal. Points are simple. When two tiles merge, you just add them up and/or get the score of the newly created title added to your total.

2+2 = 4
4+4 = 8
8+8 = 20
etc...

If you're not paying attention, like I wasn't, it might seem that you're getting more points than this when you make a move... but that's because you are. You were simply focusing on two tiles that merged in a move but didn't notice at least two other tiles merging at the same time.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

If I understand the rules for scoring correctly, the top score is dependent upon the random numbers being generated - specifically, the ratio of the number of 2s being generated vs. the number of 4s being generated.

You say that 8 + 8 = 20. Is this using the Libtard Maths common in this forum, or is there some bonus calculation in the game that goes from 8+8=16 to an additional 4 points giving 16+4=20?


I'll start with the assumption that 8+8=16. (merging two 8 tiles adds 16 to the score).

A 131072 tile merged 2 of the 65536 tiles. Score 131072 from this merge alone.
2 of the 65536 tiles were created from merging 4 of the 32768 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game, from merging these 4 tiles.
4 of the 32768 tiles were created from merging 8 of the 16384 tiles. Scored 131072 during the course of the game.
8 of the 16384 tiles were created from merging 16 of the 8192 tiles. Scored 131072.
16 of 8192 tiles from 32 of the 4096 tiles. Scored 131072.
32 of 4096 tiles from 64 of the 2048 tiles. Scored 131072.
64 of 2048 tiles from 128 of the 1024 tiles. Scored 131072.
128 of the 1024 tiles from 256 of the 512 tiles. Scored 131072.
256 of the 512 tiles from 512 of the 256 tiles. Scored 131072.
512 of 256 tiles from 1024 of the 128 tiles. Scored 131072.
1024 of 128 tiles from 2048 of the 64 tiles. Scored 131072.
2048 of 64 tiles from 4096 of the 32 tiles. Scored 131072.
4096 of 32 tiles from 8192 of the 16 tiles. Scored 131072.
8192 of 16 tiles from 16384 of the 8 tiles. Scored 131072.
16384 of 8 tiles from 32768 of the 4 tiles. Scored 131072.

So if no 2s were generated as fill during the entire game, and only 4s were generated, then the score accumulated to get to one 131072 tile would be 15 levels of tile value times 131072, for a total of 1,966,180.

On the other hand, if no 4s were generated and only 2s were generated, then the 32768 of the 4 tiles were created from merging 65536 of the 2 tiles. Scored another 131072 during the course of the game. Total of 2,097,252.
This supposition is theoretical, for if no 2s were generated, then no 131072 tile could have been created.

Therefore, to create a 131072 tile in the game, between 1966180 and 2097252 points would be scored. The exact figure would depend upon how many of the generated filler numbers were 2s and how many were 4s.


If the game ended as I posited in the first example, without being allowed to create the 131072 tile, then the total score would be 262140 less (-131072 - 65536 - 32768 - 16384 - 8192 - 4094 - 2048 - 1024 - 512 - 256 - 128 - 64 - 32 - 16 - 8 - 4).


If the 131072 tile was achieved, and then all tiles continued to be backfilled with 65536, 32768, 16384, (next row) 8192, 4096, 2048, 1024, (next row) 512, 256, 128, 64, (final row) 32, 16, 8, 4; then the total score would be in the range 3,407,876 to 3,670,020 - again, depending upon how many 2s were generated compared to how many 4s were generated.


I hope that explains it well enough.

Did you agree with 131072?



I don't disagree with it.

That is the same number somebody on the forum I provided came up with as well. The one that was voted the best answer.

Quote:



you haven't finished yet with the board you propose: you can slide to the right, going all the way down and obtaining 131072. So your analysis was correct although you missed a spot:

This will be your final board:

4 8 16 32
512 256 128 64
1024 2048 4096 8192
131072 65536 32768 16384




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, October 24, 2019 8:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I have two free ones for the NES if you have an NES emulator to play them on.

That was my first exposure to the game. I didn't even find out about the original online game until way after I had the NES versions. I'm not aware of any PC based offline version, and I don't have a mobile phone so I couldn't tell you on that front. I'm sure there is something if you look hard enough. Hell... I'm sure there's a version you could pay a few bucks for on the phone. Would probably be worthwhile to buy it and have it on the go if you like it.




The 8+8 mistake was a remnant that I forgot to change when I was originally trying to see what the scoring was. I had moved two 8's into each other and got a +20, not realizing that I had also moved two 2's together at the same time. I fixed the first two but forgot to fix the 8's.


I almost had 2048 the other day. I had the 1024, 512, 256, 128 and two 64's, but I had screwed up a move much earlier and moved the 1024 into one of the center tiles. I was actually surprised that I was able to keep the game alive that long. I was about 3 moves away from saving it and getting the 3rd 64 tile that was necessary to merge into the one by the 128 since it was impossible for me to get the two 64s that I had together. But I got some bad random luck at the end and just ran out of free spaces. Never paid much attention to scoring before that, and I don't remember the exact score but I believe it was just over 16,300.




I have not tried Kakuro yet.


EDIT: Just tried it, and couldn't figure out the solution on a 9x9 grid. I misread the instructions and thought you couldn't use the same digit twice at all, but finally I clicked on the solution and realized that you can use the same number twice, just not for any sum of numbers. Seems like a cool alternate to Sudoku. I'll have to play that one more.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Soduko does not use math.
Kakuro uses addition and subtraction.

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Thursday, October 24, 2019 8:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I also dislike Sudoku puzzles which have more than one solution. I consider them poorly made.

I've only run across one of those myself! One of the people I worked with was a Sudoku puzzle creator on the side. He said that if you create the puzzle and leave - I forget what the minimum number of numbers was (sigh, my memory) - it would always be solvable. But iirc he didn't know the mathematics behind it. As to how they grade them for difficulty, I have NO idea!

Sudoku puzzles are only using the numerals as symbols, not for numeric value.
the numbers/symbols can be interchanged from one puzzle to the next, as long as the saeme pattern remains.

The initial set of clues is often the same, the pattern repeating.

The set can be timed,

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Thursday, October 24, 2019 9:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Sudoku puzzles are only using the numerals as symbols, not for numeric value.
the numbers/symbols can be interchanged from one puzzle to the next, as long as the same pattern remains.

The initial set of clues is often the same, the pattern repeating.

The set can be timed,

Oh, I know that the numbers per se aren't used in Sudoku, they're just a set of 9 unique characters. But once you create the puzzle, to make the game you delete so many of the numbers(characters). You have to leave a certain number of them in the puzzle - 11? - for it to be solvable. And as long as you leave that many, you can take them out at random and it will always have a solution.

The Sudoku that I ran across that had a non-unique solution had 4 blanks spots that were 2 pairs of the same two numbers(characters) that you could swap around and still have a solution.

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Saturday, October 26, 2019 4:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I also dislike Sudoku puzzles which have more than one solution. I consider them poorly made.

I've only run across one of those myself! One of the people I worked with was a Sudoku puzzle creator on the side. He said that if you create the puzzle and leave - I forget what the minimum number of numbers was (sigh, my memory) - it would always be solvable. But iirc he didn't know the mathematics behind it. As to how they grade them for difficulty, I have NO idea!

Sudoku puzzles are only using the numerals as symbols, not for numeric value.
the numbers/symbols can be interchanged from one puzzle to the next, as long as the saeme pattern remains.

The initial set of clues is often the same, the pattern repeating.

The set can be timed,





Sample patterns of clue sets. have any friend take a solved grid and fill in only the clue spots.


X are clues, O are blanks.

0XX 000 000
000 XXX 0X0
X00 000 X00

X00 0XX 00X
00X X0X X00
X00 XX0 00X

00X 000 00X
0X0 XXX 000
000 000 XX0



X00 00X 000
0X0 0X0 X0X
X00 X00 0X0

0X0 X0X 00X
00X 000 X00
X00 X0X 0X0

0X0 00X 00X
X0X 0X0 0X0
000 X00 00X



There are a limited number of these clue pattern sets. These are the total number of different Soduko Puzzles that can be created. Each set can be timed with several participant solvers. The Puzzles which take the longest, or have the Standard Deviation farthest out, can be rated as the hardest. The same number of clues but in a different pattern can be vastly varied in difficulty.



One book series of Soduko that I have is from Bendon. Bendonpub.com
These are the tedious ones mostly, requiring trial and error, not elegant solution. Their hard level puzzles take me longer than most other sources. I went and looked for a hard level one online and could not find one. Some sites said they had hard puzzles, but I could nevdr find how to access them.


Different levels of difficulty often incorporate the various methods and comprehension needed to solve the puzzles adequately and easily.

I often get lazy and only look for groups of 5 blanks or less, not going above 5 unless I think It will move things along, or if I seem stuck. But I notice many folk don't even know how to seek groups of 2, 3, or 4 spots blanks to solve the rest.

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Saturday, October 26, 2019 4:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Sudoku puzzles are only using the numerals as symbols, not for numeric value.
the numbers/symbols can be interchanged from one puzzle to the next, as long as the same pattern remains.

The initial set of clues is often the same, the pattern repeating.

The set can be timed,

Oh, I know that the numbers per se aren't used in Sudoku, they're just a set of 9 unique characters. But once you create the puzzle, to make the game you delete so many of the numbers(characters). You have to leave a certain number of them in the puzzle - 11? - for it to be solvable. And as long as you leave that many, you can take them out at random and it will always have a solution.

The Sudoku that I ran across that had a non-unique solution had 4 blanks spots that were 2 pairs of the same two numbers(characters) that you could swap around and still have a solution.

I find the same thing quite a bit. Also had 2 pairs of this, one vertical and one horizontal. So 8 spots which had non-unique solutions.

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Saturday, October 26, 2019 4:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Soduko does not use math.
Kakuro uses addition and subtraction.



Guess this would be the Captain Obvious quote from 24th.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, October 26, 2019 4:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Soduko does not use math.
Kakuro uses addition and subtraction.



Guess this would be the Captain Obvious quote from 24th.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

That is one guess, but I am amazed at how many people think that just using numbers is math. I heard folk saying they don't do Soduko because they don't like math, or they don't know math very well. Suggesting that they do not understand that Soduko does not utilize any math, for any reason, in any case.

I worked with a college graduate of Engineering who could not divide by 2. Not without a calculator. Serious.

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Saturday, October 26, 2019 5:07 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Soduko does not use math.
Kakuro uses addition and subtraction.



Guess this would be the Captain Obvious quote from 24th.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

That is one guess, but I am amazed at how many people think that just using numbers is math. I heard folk saying they don't do Soduko because they don't like math, or they don't know math very well. Suggesting that they do not understand that Soduko does not utilize any math, for any reason, in any case.

I worked with a college graduate of Engineering who could not divide by 2. Not without a calculator. Serious.




It is interesting how different people's brains work differently. I'm sure that engineer guy is a genius capable of much more advanced math than I'd ever dream or care to do myself, while at the same time having a hard time keeping a budget or balancing his checkbook.

Two of the games I mentioned above have kind of strange effects on my own brain when you mess with the tile sets. Both Shanghai and Shinkinjou had this effect on me, even though both of them don't require any math and are games where you essentially just need to match pictures with each other.

I remember Shinkinjou in particular had an option that changed all of the "Simples" tiles (the numbers) to Roman Numerals, and I had switched to that pretty late in my experience with the game. I ended up switching back to the standard skin because by that time my mind had become accustomed to using them, and the much simpler (for non Chinese players) and easier to read (on the limited graphical capabilities of an 8 bit system) tiles were actually slowing me down at that point.

The exact same thing happened when I tried to switch to a tile set in Shanghai that gave straight up Arabic numerals that we see every day and I hated it.

Had I played both of these games this way originally, I'm sure I would have preferred it, since both Arabic and Roman numerals are things I was familiar with before ever playing either game and seeing Chinese numbers for the first time in my life.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, October 26, 2019 5:58 PM

THG


Is this math?
T






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Sunday, November 10, 2019 4:13 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Soduko does not use math.
Kakuro uses addition and subtraction.


Guess this would be the Captain Obvious quote from 24th.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Have you tried Kakuro?

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Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yes, I did. Going to have to give it more time. Seems like fun.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 13, 2019 7:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yes, I did. Going to have to give it more time. Seems like fun.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you haven't already done so, there are a couple things I remind myself of when I staart one.

I don't consider these to be spoiler, but you can jump pat this post if you feel like it is cheating.



Select to view spoiler:




What 2 numbers sum to 16? 4?
What 3 numbers sum to 23? 7?
What 4 numbers sum to 29? 11?
What 5 numbers sum to 34? 16?
What 7 numbers sum to 29? 41?

I usually start off by circling the sums like the above examples, and then hit the ones that intersect with those critical choices.





End of Spoiler.

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