Dr. Fiona Hill by SHINYGOODGUY

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Signym, I see that Senator Dianne Feinstein, on the Intelligence Committee, became aware that Bush had been lying about everything on Iraq.
If she was so "in the loop" why was she so clueless BEFORE we invaded Iraq?

Was she so flattered by her exalted position that gave her access to "intelligence community secrets" that she didn't realize they were feeding her piles of hot shit?

I don't trust most of the politicians in Congress to be (a) ethically responsible or even (b) normally intelligent, so if you use Congress as a measure of what's true or not, you lost me. And I trust the unelected, unaccountable "intelligence community" hivemind even less than I trust Congress, PARTICULARLY as they have a history of lying their asses off.

And Fiona Hill, in just that short opening statement, revealed what a liar she is too. Why should I credit anything she says?

Very seldom does a Senator act like they have any responsibilities. If things go wrong with policy it is too easy to shift the responsibility to somebody else. The voters, the majority with very short and ridiculously inaccurate memories, let Senators act irresponsibly: "Feinstein supported the Iraq war resolution in the vote of October 11, 2002; she has since claimed that she was misled by President Bush on the reasons for going to war. However, former UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq Scott Ritter has stated that Feinstein in summer 2002 acknowledged to him that she knew the Bush administration had not provided any convincing intelligence to back up its claims about the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Dianne_Feinstein#
Iraq

You won't hear this from Senator Dianne Feinstein, but she did not oppose the second Iraq War because it was going to happen even without her vote. She did not want to be singled out for opposing the "glorious" victory the US Army would achieve. She remembered the first Iraq War. The first war had a plan for the aftermath. Feinstein didn't calculate that the second war did not have a plan: "State Department experts warned CENTCOM before Iraq war about lack of plans for post-war Iraq security"

Feinstein did not know how idiotic was Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense. She found out that despite the nice suits Donald Rumsfeld wears that he was an empty suit. Apparently it took George Bush about 6 years and a lost midterm election to realize what was wrong with Rumsfeld. Feinstein was much quicker than Bush but still too late.

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB163/index.htm

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SECOND, you're making my case for me.

So given this fine explanation of Feinstein's (a) gullibility or (b) cowardice or (c) duplicity, why should I look to Congress to tell me what's real and what isn't? Do I really give a rat's ass what the Senate "Intelligence" Committee said about Russia and the 2016 election? Because they seem to be either spectacularly misinformed by our "intelligence community" hivemind or spectacularly willing to bend over and promulgate a falsehood. That wouldn't be the first, second, or even the dozenth time they did that. I don't know what world they live in, but it isn't the real one.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:07 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, you're making my case for me.

So given this fine explanation of Feinstein's (a) gullibility or (b) cowardice or (c) duplicity, why should I look to Congress to tell me what's real and what isn't? Do I really give a rat's ass what the Senate "Intelligence" Committee said about Russia and the 2016 election? Because they seem to be either spectacularly misinformed by our "intelligence community" hivemind or spectacularly willing to bend over and promulgate a falsehood. That wouldn't be the first, second, or even the dozenth time they did that. I don't know what world they live in, but it isn't the reak one.

Gee, lemme guess: it was Ukraine!

lol

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:24 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, you're making my case for me.

So given this fine explanation of Feinstein's (a) gullibility or (b) cowardice or (c) duplicity, why should I look to Congress to tell me what's real and what isn't? Do I really give a rat's ass what the Senate "Intelligence" Committee said about Russia and the 2016 election? Because they seem to be either spectacularly misinformed by our "intelligence community" hivemind or spectacularly willing to bend over and promulgate a falsehood. That wouldn't be the first, second, or even the dozenth time they did that. I don't know what world they live in, but it isn't the real one.

I'm making a slightly different one: Senators act irresponsibly because voters, at least the majority, can't remember accurately what the Senator did. A Senator can always talk their way around those voters who can't remember. Dr. Fiona Hill is a little different. She is responsible for the words that come out of her mouth, which is very unlike the typical Senator who has smoothly hoodwinked the majority of dimwitted voters for years. If the majority of voters weren't dimwits who never vote in primary elections, we'd have a very different kind of Senator.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 2:03 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

SECOND, you're making my case for me.

So given this fine explanation of Feinstein's (a) gullibility or (b) cowardice or (c) duplicity, why should I look to Congress to tell me what's real and what isn't? Do I really give a rat's ass what the Senate "Intelligence" Committee said about Russia and the 2016 election? Because they seem to be either spectacularly misinformed by our "intelligence community" hivemind or spectacularly willing to bend over and promulgate a falsehood. That wouldn't be the first, second, or even the dozenth time they did that. I don't know what world they live in, but it isn't the real one. - SIGNY

I'm making a slightly different one: Senators act irresponsibly because voters, at least the majority, can't remember accurately what the Senator did. - SECOND

Well, I remember what Feinstein did which is why I refused to ever vote for her again. I also remember what Kamala Harris did, which is why I refuse to vote for HER again. Between the two of them they sure took the shine off female "liberal" Democratic Senators as a category!

Quote:
A Senator can always talk their way around those voters who can't remember. Dr. Fiona Hill is a little different. She is responsible for the words that come out of her mouth, which is very unlike the typical Senator who has smoothly hoodwinked the majority of dimwitted voters for years. If the majority of voters weren't dimwits who never vote in primary elections, we'd have a very different kind of Senator.- SECOND

How is Fiona Hill different? She bamboozled the liberals who listened to her and she's got the media covering her backside. For example, her dad was a union coal miner, and in those days the unions were pretty pro-socialist. And nobody will point out that her family fought on the same side as Russia in WWII. This aocryphal dad of hers, who is safely dead and can't be questioned, may have had a greater emotional connection to Russia than the USA. But all we know is what she said, and the media fawned all over her instead of challenging her testimony and pointing out that she saw nothing, heard nothing, and did nothing related to Ukraingate, and all she transmitted was heresay. And look at what happened as a result of the M%M putting her on a pedestal: SHINY thinks she's Einstein and Joan d'Arc all rolled into one.

On top of that, even if she lied her ass off, where is the accountability for her perfidy? Is she going to get voted out of office? NOPE! She'll just go merrily along her career, from government to think tank back to goverment, spewing bullshit as she goes. She would be a great example of a Junior Member of the Deep State: an unelected, unaccountable, media-protected part of "the intelligence community".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 4:15 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SECOND, you're making my case for me.

So given this fine explanation of Feinstein's (a) gullibility or (b) cowardice or (c) duplicity, why should I look to Congress to tell me what's real and what isn't? Do I really give a rat's ass what the Senate "Intelligence" Committee said about Russia and the 2016 election? Because they seem to be either spectacularly misinformed by our "intelligence community" hivemind or spectacularly willing to bend over and promulgate a falsehood. That wouldn't be the first, second, or even the dozenth time they did that. I don't know what world they live in, but it isn't the real one. - SIGNY

I'm making a slightly different one: Senators act irresponsibly because voters, at least the majority, can't remember accurately what the Senator did. - SECOND
Well, I remember what Feinstein did which is why I refused to ever vote for her again. I also remember what Kamala Harris did, which is why I refuse to vote for HER again. Between the two of them they sure took the shine off female "liberal" Democratic Senators as a category!

Quote:
A Senator can always talk their way around those voters who can't remember. Dr. Fiona Hill is a little different. She is responsible for the words that come out of her mouth, which is very unlike the typical Senator who has smoothly hoodwinked the majority of dimwitted voters for years. If the majority of voters weren't dimwits who never vote in primary elections, we'd have a very different kind of Senator.- SECOND
How is Fiona Hill different? She bamboozled the liberals who listened to her and she's got the media covering her backside. For example, her dad was a union coal miner, and in those days the unions were pretty pro-socialist. And nobody will point out that her family fought on the same side as Russia in WWII. This aocryphal dad of hers, who is safely dead and can't be questioned, may have had a greater emotional connection to Russia than the USA. But all we know is what she said, and the media fawned all over her instead of challenging her testimony and pointing out that she saw nothing, heard nothing, and did nothing related to Ukraingate, and all she transmitted was heresay. And look at what happened as a result of the M%M putting her on a pedestal: SHINY thinks she's Einstein and Joan d'Arc all rolled into one.

On top of that, even if she lied her ass off, where is the accountability for her perfidy? Is she going to get voted out of office? NOPE! She'll just go merrily along her career, from government to think tank back to goverment, spewing bullshit as she goes. She would be a great example of a Junior Member of the Deep State: an unelected, unaccountable, media-protected part of "the intelligence community".

"safely dead" - seriously, are you dreamtrove's sock puppet?

Let's do some basic Logic:

1. SIGGY hates anyone who slags on Russia
2. SIGGY hates anyone who is smarter than her
3. SIGGY especially hates any woman who gets more attention than her

and so in summation...

SIGGY really, really, REALLY hates Dr. Fiona Hill because she slagged on Russia, is observably smarter than SIGGY, and is getting more attention than SIGGY ever will.

And don't you think for a second that your "friends" on this board don't know these things about you as well.

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 5:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Meh...

Why bother arguing about any of this. Trump isn't going to be removed from office and he's going to be re-elected in 2020.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, November 30, 2019 5:55 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

GSTRING can always be counted on to speak "for" me and put words to me that I never posted and

TWITCHY can always be counted on to accuse people of what she's doing in that very same post (like accusing people of being "racist" or "fascist" while being racist or fascist) and threatening to kill people

It's nice to know there are some things you can always count on

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 6:27 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SECOND, you're making my case for me.

So given this fine explanation of Feinstein's (a) gullibility or (b) cowardice or (c) duplicity, why should I look to Congress to tell me what's real and what isn't? Do I really give a rat's ass what the Senate "Intelligence" Committee said about Russia and the 2016 election? Because they seem to be either spectacularly misinformed by our "intelligence community" hivemind or spectacularly willing to bend over and promulgate a falsehood. That wouldn't be the first, second, or even the dozenth time they did that. I don't know what world they live in, but it isn't the real one. - SIGNY

I'm making a slightly different one: Senators act irresponsibly because voters, at least the majority, can't remember accurately what the Senator did. - SECOND
Well, I remember what Feinstein did which is why I refused to ever vote for her again. I also remember what Kamala Harris did, which is why I refuse to vote for HER again. Between the two of them they sure took the shine off female "liberal" Democratic Senators as a category!

Quote:
A Senator can always talk their way around those voters who can't remember. Dr. Fiona Hill is a little different. She is responsible for the words that come out of her mouth, which is very unlike the typical Senator who has smoothly hoodwinked the majority of dimwitted voters for years. If the majority of voters weren't dimwits who never vote in primary elections, we'd have a very different kind of Senator.- SECOND
How is Fiona Hill different? She bamboozled the liberals who listened to her and she's got the media covering her backside. For example, her dad was a union coal miner, and in those days the unions were pretty pro-socialist. And nobody will point out that her family fought on the same side as Russia in WWII. This aocryphal dad of hers, who is safely dead and can't be questioned, may have had a greater emotional connection to Russia than the USA. But all we know is what she said, and the media fawned all over her instead of challenging her testimony and pointing out that she saw nothing, heard nothing, and did nothing related to Ukraingate, and all she transmitted was heresay. And look at what happened as a result of the M%M putting her on a pedestal: SHINY thinks she's Einstein and Joan d'Arc all rolled into one.

On top of that, even if she lied her ass off, where is the accountability for her perfidy? Is she going to get voted out of office? NOPE! She'll just go merrily along her career, from government to think tank back to goverment, spewing bullshit as she goes. She would be a great example of a Junior Member of the Deep State: an unelected, unaccountable, media-protected part of "the intelligence community".

Signym, you called Dr. Fiona Hill a great example of a Junior Member of the Deep State: an unelected, unaccountable, media-protected part of "the intelligence community". Lets look at what happens to an elected, accountable, media-unprotected Senator. I've got two examples that will shine a light on why Senator Dianne Feinstein voted as she did on the Iraq War.

Example 1: Senator George McGovern ran on a platform that advocated withdrawal from the Vietnam War in exchange for the return of American prisoners of war and amnesty for draft evaders who had left the country. McGovern's platform also included an across-the-board 37-percent reduction in defense spending over three years. Whatever happened to George? This:

In the general election on November 7, 1972, the McGovern–Shriver ticket suffered a 61 percent to 37 percent defeat to Nixon – at the time, the second biggest landslide in American history, with an Electoral College total of 520 to 17. Over the nation as a whole he carried a mere 135 counties. At just over four percent of the nation's counties, McGovern's county wins remain the fewest by almost a factor of three for any major-party nominee.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern#1972_presidential_campai
gn

Example 2: During his bid to be elected president in 2004, Senator John Kerry frequently criticized President George W. Bush for starting the Iraq War. While Kerry had initially voted in support of authorizing President Bush to use force in dealing with Saddam Hussein, he voted against an $87 billion supplemental appropriations bill to pay for the subsequent war. His statement on March 16, 2004, "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it," helped the Bush campaign to paint him as a flip-flopper and has been cited as contributing to Kerry's defeat.

Despite being an utterly incompetent President in all phases of his duties, average American voters preferred Bush to Kerry, whose defining characteristic was being against Bush's Iraq War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry#2004_presidential_campaign

Personally, I blame the average American for wanting to win wars but neither wanting to fight them nor even understand the simple concepts used to calculate how many deaths it takes to win. The average American voter has completely ridiculous ideas they "learned" about military strategy and causalities from movies, comic books, or shows such as Firefly, but the average voter still wants to go to war and win. The average American does not want to understand you can't win if you won't sacrifice your Army with huge casualty numbers. They think you can nuke and smart bomb your way to victory with few American casualties. A magic bullet to kill Hitler or Saddam Hussein is all you need to win is how average Americans think, if you want to call that thinking. That is the actual ending for Joss Whedon's Avengers -- one nuke delivered by Iron Man and the war is over. That is the actual ending of Lord of the Rings -- drop The Ring into a volcano and the war is over. The idea of a magic bullet is even the ending of the Bible -- in the book of Revelations the magic bullet is God, who effortlessly wins Armageddon and solves all problems for average Americans, who watch the End of Evil on TV rather than fight Evil themselves.
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+16&version=NIV

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 8:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?

Oh BTW, IMHO GWB wasn't elected in 2000, he was selected by the Supreme Court, and he only "won" in 2004 because of massive electronic vote fraud. http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=63404 While so many here are hysterical about Russia "hacking" our election (which never happened) they seem awfully blase about a hack that realy occured.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 9:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?

It is not me to blame. I've got General William Sherman as a direct ancestor. My father got the Distinguished Flying Cross for bombing civilians and surviving a B-29 crash. And I've got my own war wounds. I'm more realistic about the US military than your average American voter, or even your average American soldier who doesn't know much that is true about military strategy. For one thing, I would never let nuclear treaties laps so that the military could have newer nukes, Trump's idea of magic bullets that win wars. But the average voter isn't even aware of what Trump is doing and the expensive and dangerous consequences. Nukes are definitely not magic bullets. And America keeps starting wars it cannot finish, even with thousands of billions of dollars in nukes.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 10:04 AM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Dead on G. You've captured several of comrade sigs sick and wack job attributes.

T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 10:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars? - SIGNY

It is not me to blame... SECONf

Well, who would you rather vote for? Hillary, who wanted a more "kinetic" approach to Syria and was the author of the fiasco in Libya? "We came, we saw he died?" *giggle* Or Trump, who wanted to withdraw our troops from endless mideast wars, and who is currently being bedeviled by a pack of deep state and Congressional neocons?

The rest of the DNC pack? Or Tulsi Gabbard, who served in Iraq and who's the only Democratic candidate who went to Syria to find out for herself what was going on, bypassing the lying deep state, and who's the only Democratic candidate running an overtly anti-war campaign?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 12:56 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?

Is it exciting to you to lie so casually?

Lying has never had much appeal to me because it seems the people who use it are just lazy. If your Truth is so bad that you have to lie, it can't be much of a Truth, can it?

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 1:22 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?

Is it exciting to you to lie so casually?

Lying has never had much appeal to me because it seems the people who use it are just lazy. If your Truth is so bad that you have to lie, it can't be much of a Truth, can it?

Brilliant G. That applies to kiki Jack and others here as well. As you others and me here post what's going on, these guys try and explain it away by posting what Trumps talking heads call alternate facts.

We know there's no such thing but they continue on regardless. And as one by one their explanations fall short, they create new sets of alternative facts. Lies and gibberish is all they're about; lies and gibberish.

T

Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 1:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I'm not lying.

I don't have to be. I'm usually right.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 2:25 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?- SIGNY

Is it exciting to you to lie so casually?-GSTRING

WTF are you going on about? I wasn't asking you about your opinion, I was asking SECOND. He can clarify what he means by himself, he doesn't need you jumping in. Unless maybe SECOND is your sockpuppet and you temporarily lost track of your personas?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 7:34 PM

... stay crunchy...

SIGNYM: So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?

Me: Is it exciting to you to lie so casually?

SIGNYM: WTF are you going on about? I wasn't asking you about your opinion

Me: I have to wait for you to ask me to express my opinion? Fascist.

You lied, included my Uname, I called you out - simple. Still wondering if it's *exciting* for you to lie so casually? Or is it just you being lazy?

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Sunday, December 1, 2019 7:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You're welcome to express your own opinion. But you seem to be expressing SECOND's opinion.

Apropos of nothing, how's that impeachment thing going?

Flies shit.

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Monday, December 2, 2019 1:37 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

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Monday, December 2, 2019 1:40 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
SIGNYM: So basically in your opinion it's people like SHINY and TWITCHY and CC and THUGR and JO and you ... and all of the other deep-state supporters ... who are to blame for our endless, pointless wars?

Me: Is it exciting to you to lie so casually?

SIGNYM: WTF are you going on about? I wasn't asking you about your opinion

Maybe if you learned to read with comprehension ... or maybe just read ... you would have noticed that SECOND posted this:

Quote:
If things go wrong with policy it is too easy to shift the responsibility to somebody else. The voters, the majority with very short and ridiculously inaccurate memories, let Senators act irresponsibly:

and

Quote:
Senators act irresponsibly because voters, at least the majority, can't remember accurately what the Senator did. A Senator can always talk their way around those voters who can't remember.

and

Quote:
I've got two examples that will shine a light on why Senator Dianne Feinstein voted as she did [pro-war] on the Iraq War.

Example 1: Senator George McGovern ran on a platform that advocated withdrawal from the Vietnam War in exchange for the return of American prisoners of war and amnesty for draft evaders who had left the country. McGovern's platform also included an across-the-board 37-percent reduction in defense spending over three years. Whatever happened to George? This:

In the general election on November 7, 1972, the McGovern–Shriver ticket suffered a 61 percent to 37 percent defeat to Nixon ...

Example 2: During his bid to be elected president in 2004, Senator John Kerry frequently criticized President George W. Bush for starting the Iraq War...

And finally this

Quote:
Personally, I blame the average American for wanting to win wars but neither wanting to fight them nor even understand the simple concepts used to calculate how many deaths it takes to win. The average American voter has completely ridiculous ideas they "learned" about military strategy and causalities from movies, comic books, or shows such as Firefly, but the average voter still wants to go to war and win. The average American does not want to understand you can't win if you won't sacrifice your Army with huge casualty numbers. They think you can nuke and smart bomb your way to victory with few American casualties. A magic bullet to kill Hitler or Saddam Hussein is all you need to win is how average Americans think, if you want to call that thinking.

When SECOND can no longer blame Texas Republicans, or the GOP, or Trump, or Trump voters, or all of the above, for all of our ills (especially war) he shifts ground, and instead of blaming the deep state, its compliant media. and its bought-and-paid for political shills (of both parties) he shifts ground and blames THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WHO IS STUPID ABOUT WAR.

Well, around these parts, who would that be?

WISHY, who (among her other emotional disturbances) has turned the mention of "war" into a drinking game?

THUGR, who can't bear to be parted from the deep state?

SHINY, who is so angry that Trump is President that he doesn't realize that Trump actually has some positive foreign policy impulses that should be supported?

JO, who's been driven so bathshit paranoid by Rachel Madcow that he sees dangerous evil Russians everywhere?

YOU, like the other "Democratic" "liberals" here who attack anyone who is against endless pointless wars, and calls antiwar people (including Tulsi Gabbard) "Russian trolls" and other defamatory names?

I wonder WTF is wrong with you all.

Anyway, I was asking SECOND to clarify his several posts, which all seem to be heading in the direction of blaming YOU, my friend, for the clusterfuck that we are in today.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Monday, December 2, 2019 1:51 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Wrong. Signym, you are misleading. Stop fooling us. Here is the Senate Intelligence Committee Report:
"Two Bipartisan Reports Detail Bush Administration Misstatements on Prewar Iraq Intelligence, and Inappropriate Intelligence Activities by Pentagon Policy Office"
www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intelligence-committee-unveil
s-final-phase-ii-reports-prewar-iraq-intelligence

Issued in ... 2008. When was the Iraq War, again?

Quote:
Signym, I see that Senator Dianne Feinstein, on the Intelligence Committee, became aware that Bush had been lying about everything on Iraq.
More at www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/speeches?ID=D9E24BBC-FA51-4E
99-B869-21FDBA433445

Speech given in 2007. When was the Iraq War, again?

Quote:
https://www.salon.com/2005/12/16/intel_11/ "When the Senate voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq in 2002, it was based on a more limited scope of prewar intelligence than was available to the administration," Feinstein said.

Apparently she learned after the fact that being on the Senate Intelligence Committee didn't make her 'all that'.

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Monday, December 2, 2019 12:35 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The latest interview with Zelenskiy. I think it's worth reading the whole thing thru. He comes across as a very interesting guy. This is what he said about "quid pro quo":

Quote:
Look, I never talked to the President from the position of a quid pro quo. That’s not my thing. … I don’t want us to look like beggars. But you have to understand. We’re at war. If you’re our strategic partner, then you can’t go blocking anything for us. I think that’s just about fairness. It’s not about a quid pro quo. It just goes without saying.

About Ukraine's position in the world of geopolitics

Quote:
First off, I would never want Ukraine to be a piece on the map, on the chess board of big global players, so that someone could toss us around, use us as cover, as part of some bargain… As for the United States, I would really want – and we feel this, it’s true – for them to help us, to understand us, to see that we are a player in our own right, that they cannot make deals about us with anyone behind our backs. Of course they help us, and I’m not just talking about technical help, military aid, financial aid. These are important things, very important things, especially right now, when we are in such a difficult position.

About the most urgent issue coming up for Ukraine, which is the loss of $3 billion dollars per year as their "cut" for transiting gas thru to Europe

Quote:
I want European leaders to settle on a different result when it comes to Nord Stream, and take different steps. I don’t know what else I can say about North Stream 2. We don’t have influence over the Europeans’ decision. We don’t have it, and that’s it. I don’t have any leverage. I can only count on the strong support that I see on this question from the United States of America.

https://time.com/5742108/ukraine-zelensky-interview-trump-putin-europe/

*****

Now, I think that his statement that Ukraine is "at war" with Russia is overblown, since they are fighting their own countrymen in the east. But Ukraine DOES need help ... not military help, but economic assistance. They had help before: a total of $45 billion from the IMF/USA/EU, some of which was apparently siphoned off into various oligarchs' pockets; and then they apparently paid Biden (thru his son Hunter) and former Polish President Aleksander Kwazniewski (I said I would dig up that name, it just took me a while!) for protection. And that is why Biden called for Procurator General Shokin (who was investigating Burisma) to be fired.

It's hard for anyone to claim that Ukraine is NOT a corrupt country. President Zelenskiy can hardly claim to have cleaned up the country, so I imagine things have been going on pretty much as before. The only difference now is that (a) the oligarchs, who have been fighting over control of the gas transit and all of the revenues derived from it, are facing a hard deadline when the contract with Gazprom expires and (b) the flood of foreign aid money/ loans which crossed many palms and filled many pockets has slowed to a trickle.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

I'd nuke a BILLION PEOPLE if it would save the other 7 billion from living under Putin. Hell, I might go all the way to the last 100 people on Earth to keep this planet from being under fascist rule.- WISHIMAY

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Monday, December 2, 2019 1:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BILL TAYLOR

Like the (many) State Department/ CIA/FBI/NSA employees who wanted to get rid of Trump so they could continue t make foreign policy, Bill Taylor had his own take on what he thought Ukraine "should" do and how he thought the USA "should" act. According to the Saker

Quote:
Bill Taylor’s Private War

According to the NY Times Taylor said “So during my meeting with Secretary Pompeo on May 28, I made clear to him and the others present that if U.S. policy toward Ukraine changed, he would not want me posted there and I could not stay.”

Taylor was so disturbed by the direction the new Ukrainian president was taking by honoring the troop pullback Ukraine just signed in Minsk, he went to the frontline after it started and demanded it stop.

Bill Taylor tried to cause Ukraine to break its agreement with LNR, DNR, and Russia and resume the conflict. Ambassador Taylor demanded nationalist volunteers patrol the areas they were supposed to leave according to the agreement signed by all parties.

So, here’s an ambassador to Ukraine worried about changing the policy toward Ukraine and at the same time trying to intensify the conflict because he doesn’t like US policy.

Ambassador Bill Taylor told the Ukrainian president how he needed to handle internal policy because the Ukrainian president didn’t align with his view of policy.

It’s no wonder when one looks at Taylor’s testimony, he lies about a Russian invasion that Ukraine clearly says never happened and he knows as little about current events there as Alexander Vindman did.

Vindman is also “deeply troubled by what he interpreted as an attempt by the president to subvert U.S. foreign policy.”This is the same proof Taylor offered in his testimony.

https://thesaker.is/bill-taylors-private-war-with-donald-trump-ukraine
-and-russia/

ORIGINAL EMBASSY SEAL

BILL TAYLOR'S CHANGE

HISTORIC UKRAINIAN NAZI FLAG (BLOOD AND SOIL, RED OVER BLACK)

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Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:26 AM