REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, October 12, 2023 02:05
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Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



How many people in NYC have been infected with SARS-COV-2?

150% as some data indicates?
100% as JACK claims?

The answer so far is closer to 20%

Quote:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-antibodies-tes
t-ny.html


1 in 5 New Yorkers May Have Had Covid-19, Antibody Tests Suggest



But rather than using antibodies in the decision to relax anti-SARS-COV-2 measures, Cuomo is basing his recommendation on numbers of people being hospitalized, about 1,350 patients per day. That number indicates there's still dangerous levels of infection.

Quote:

The state’s plan would involve tracking infections as restrictions are loosened on gatherings and businesses. Antibody testing would be used, Mr. Cuomo said, for identifying coronavirus survivors who can donate convalescent plasma — the part of the blood that contains antibodies — for a treatment that is being tested on patients with the virus at the Mount Sinai Health System in New York, and elsewhere.


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Thursday, April 23, 2020 3:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



And now for what could be worse news:

Quote:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/23/data-on-gileads-remdesivir-release
d-by-accident-show-no-benefit-for-coronavirus-patients
/

New data on Gilead’s remdesivir, released by accident, show no benefit for coronavirus patients. Company still sees reason for hope

Quote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/stocks-slide-report-gilead-miracle-d
rug-remdesivir-flopped-during-first-clinical-trial


Stocks Dump, Gilead Crashes After FT Reports Gilead's Remdesivir "Flops" In First Clinical Trial

Update (1350ET): How did the FT and Statnews get their hands on the remdesivir study? They were simply perusing the WHO website at the right time and just happened to stumble upon.

However, as I previously posted, that could be because the drug was given AFTER cytokine storm became the primary pathology.

Giving it earlier might still work.

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 3:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SEROLOGY TESTING FOR SARS-COV2 IN NYC AND ACROSS NYS

Quote:

...The state randomly tested 3,000 people at grocery stores and shopping locations across 19 counties in 40 localities to see if they had the antibodies to fight the coronavirus, indicating they have had the virus and recovered from it, Cuomo said.

With more than 19.4 million people residents, according to U.S. Census data, the preliminary results indicate that at least 2.7 million New Yorkers have been infected with Covid-19.

The results differed across the state with the largest concentration of positive antibody tests found in New York City at 21.2%. In Long Island, 16.7% of the people tested were positive and in Westchester, where the state's first major outbreak originated, 11.7% of the tests were positive. The Covid-19 pandemic across the rest of the state is relatively contained with just 3.6% of positive test results.

....The testing results also may be artificially high because "these are people who were out and about shopping," Cuomo added. "They were not people who were in their home, they were not people isolated, they were not people who were quarantined who you could argue probably had a lower rate of infection because they wouldn't come out of the house."



https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/23/new-york-antibody-study-estimates-13po
int9percent-of-residents-have-had-the-coronavirus-cuomo-says.html


Yep. Biased sampling, Always a confounding factor,

Also, I don't know what test kit they used, but I'm sure Chris Martenson will have something to say about that.

For those of you unfamiliar with testing, one of the continuing problems with these point-of-care (fingerstick) tests is that they suffer from high false positives (as high as 5%) because they will also react to other coronaviruses. So you could, in theory, test 100 people who have never been exposed to SARS-CoV2 and get five positive results.

Therefore, when testing people with a low exposure rate, the results are somewhat iffy, as they could be attributed to false positives/chance. However, at the roughly 21% exposure rate in NYC the results become more robust, and chance has less of an impact.

So we should expect to see roughly 4X more deaths until herd immunity is reached at about 85%, or slighlty less than 5X more deaths until everyone has been exposed and infected. That would mean about 60,000 - 75,000 in NYC. ASSUMING ANTIBODIES CONFER ROBUST, LONG-LASTING IMMUNITY, which could be a mirage.

Also, since everyone wants to know "what does this mean FOR ME?" since 21% of 8.7 million people (NYC) have been infected and about 15,000 have died this is a case fatality rate of about 0.8%. However, since people are STILL dying of infections thta got weeks ago (there is a lag between infections and death of AT LEAST 2 weeks) the possibility is that the case fatality rate will be somewhat higher ... maybe more in the realm of 1%. Also, this will vary from region to region depending on how old, fat, and sick the population is as well as quality of care, but doesn't bode well for the rural south where people are fatter and sicker than in most other parts of the nation. By contrast, Colorado should do better, since people there are leaner, healthier, and younger, with higher quality of care.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 3:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SEROLOGY TESTING FOR SARS-COV2 IN NYC AND ACROSS NYS
....The testing results also may be artificially high because "these are people who were out and about shopping," Cuomo added. "They were not people who were in their home, they were not people isolated, they were not people who were quarantined who you could argue probably had a lower rate of infection because they wouldn't come out of the house."


Yep. Biased sampling, Always a confounding factor.

If I were to characterize this study, I'd call it a survey. Sometimes before you do an actual study you go out there and poke around to get an idea of how much is there, how well does your method/ equipment/ logistics work.
Quote:

Also, I don't know what test kit they used, but I'm sure Chris Martenson will have something to say about that.
One developed by NYS apparently, just like they developed their own PCR test for the SARS-COV-2 virus.
Quote:

For those of you unfamiliar with testing, one of the continuing problems with these point-of-care (fingerstick) tests is that they suffer from high false positives (as high as 5%) because they will also react to other coronaviruses. So you could, in theory, test 100 people who have never been exposed to SARS-CoV2 and get five positive results.

Therefore, when testing people with a low exposure rate, the results are somewhat iffy, as they could be attributed to false positives/chance. However, at the roughly 21% exposure rate in NYC the results become more robust, and chance has less of an impact.

The state believes this test is accurate enough to be usable. But they're limiting any intended application so far to identifying people who might be able to donate plasma. They're not looking to base any policy decisions on that.
As I read elsewhere, Cuomo is basing lifting restrictions on numbers of hospital admissions for COVID-19, which are currently still deemed to be too high for any change in policy.
Quote:

So we should expect to see roughly 4X more deaths until herd immunity is reached at about 85%, or slightly less than 5X more deaths until everyone has been exposed and infected. That would mean about 60,000 - 75,000 in NYC. ASSUMING ANTIBODIES CONFER ROBUST, LONG-LASTING IMMUNITY, which could be a mirage.

Also, since everyone wants to know "what does this mean FOR ME?" since 21% of 8.7 million people (NYC) have been infected and about 15,000 have died this is a case fatality rate of about 0.8%. However, since people are STILL dying of infections that they got weeks ago (there is a lag between infections and death of AT LEAST 2 weeks)

Quote:

the possibility is that the case fatality rate will be somewhat higher ... maybe more in the realm of 1%. Also, this will vary from region to region depending on how old, fat, and sick the population is as well as quality of care, but doesn't bode well for the rural south where people are fatter and sicker than in most other parts of the nation. By contrast, Colorado should do better, since people there are leaner, healthier, and younger, with higher quality of care.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

There's a reason why I believe that after a majority in a referendum states should be able to throw their doors wide open, but only with the caveat that they can't then later tap into federal monies for help with COVID-19.

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KIKI- thanks for the clarifications!

Seeing in the other thread about remdesivir, and having heard very similar things about hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) ... didn't work, but maybe if given earlier and with zinc ...

Plus the fact that people are STILL popping up with SARS-CoV2 months after having tested "negative" still puts a question mark after the concept of vaccine ...

leaves us with

masks
handwashing
social isolation
test and contact trace

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:19 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol no.

You're going to have riots on the street if this social isolation goes another month.

You better figure out another answer or just let this thing run its course.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
... having heard very similar things about hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) ...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

One of the problems with chloroquine (related to HCQ) is that it causes significant - and sometimes fatal - heart arrhythmias. Both these drugs have been used for a long time to treat other conditions besides malaria, such as lupus, As such, their side effects are well known. After a debate about the relative safety of both drugs, a small study in Brazil was launched to test chloroquine, as it was deemed the safer drug. The study was halted after only 10 days due to a large number of deaths (~17% of patients) on the higher dose. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.07.20056424v2

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 6:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol no.

You're going to have riots on the street if this social isolation goes another month.

You better figure out another answer or just let this thing run its course.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



MASKS
HANDWASHING

Are you dense, or something??

It's working in Czechia (Czech Republic), why not here?

GO to 91-divoc and look at deaths per million.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 8:27 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol no.

You're going to have riots on the street if this social isolation goes another month.

You better figure out another answer or just let this thing run its course.




Do you miss going to work? Yup, didn't think so.

I'm guessing (not really) that there's someone or group behind the recent, coordinate, well organized, perfectly timed, all in states with Dem Govs, "we want to go back to work!" bullshit. Were you out there banging a drum to go back to your sh*t job? No? Why not?

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 8:58 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Today, Trump took to the podium and made a deeply bizarre inference.

“Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light ... and then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re gonna test that,” Trump said, addressing Bryan. “And then I see disinfectant, where it knocks it [coronavirus] out in a minute — one minute — and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So, that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me.” https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1253448500676898818

He then attacked Washington Post reporter Philip Rucker after Rucker advised him, “People tuning into these briefings — they want to get information and guidance and want to know what to do. They’re not looking for rumors.”

“I’m the president and you’re fake news,” Trump said.

www.vox.com/2020/4/23/21233628/trump-disinfectant-injections-sunlight-
coronavirus-briefing


The first reporter that yells out: "What the fuck are you talking about?" should automatically receive a Pulitzer Prize.

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Thursday, April 23, 2020 9:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


COVID-19: NOT "THE FLU"



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, April 24, 2020 12:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol no.

You're going to have riots on the street if this social isolation goes another month.

You better figure out another answer or just let this thing run its course.




Do you miss going to work? Yup, didn't think so.

I'm guessing (not really) that there's someone or group behind the recent, coordinate, well organized, perfectly timed, all in states with Dem Govs, "we want to go back to work!" bullshit. Were you out there banging a drum to go back to your sh*t job? No? Why not?




Yeah. I actually do. I loved my job.



It's not just about work.

If you don't get it now, you will.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 12:09 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
COVID-19: NOT "THE FLU"



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK




Do you think that people who haven't seen a graph before will just suddenly "get it" and that's the only reason they didn't before?


....



Hey. Maybe you're right. Maybe all you need is a graph. Here's a graph for you.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 12:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yep, SIX making shit up again. Because he's all about "facts".



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, April 24, 2020 12:38 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey JACK - if your graph doesn't come true, will you admit you were wrong?

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Friday, April 24, 2020 1:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm not going to adhere to those specific weeks. That graph took me 30 seconds to make with my limited graphic arts skills and a parabola tool.

I also couldn't be arsed to give it any more time than that because it was already more effort than this Coomph panic deserves.

I'm not wrong though. That's how these things always have worked out in the past. The Coomph will always be with us. And it will always be something that kills a few tens of thousands of old folks every year for as long as there are still old weak folks to kill off.


Boo hoo. Maybe people shouldn't eat so much McDonalds if they're going to cry about it when it's too late to do anything about it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 2:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not going to adhere to those specific weeks.

Of course not. That's because you just blithely ignore reality.

Quote:

SIX: I'm not wrong though.
Well, if you're saying that the # of deaths per day will eventually go down as vulnerable people die off... you're right! But it won't happen as you show because there are still lots and lots and lots more (about 20X more) people across the USA to be infected, so my guess is that if we follow your "advice" and don't try to slow transmisison down the number of deaths per day would peak out 10X higher than it is now. So yeah... imagine that chart ten times taller, and the #of deaths per day at 15,000, not 2,000.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, April 24, 2020 4:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


JACK, you have no idea what reality is. And that's why you can't stand behind ANY of your posts, including the phony made-up graph you posted. As soon as real data trashes your blather, you drop it like a hot potato and go on to other equally stupid blather.

Whatever.

I already spent more time replying than it's worth.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 4:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Now this is an interesting conundrum in England very similar to the US political dynamic.

Recent reports were that BoJo (:Trump) missed 5 emergency meetings about COVID-19, while it became a runaway train. Apparently, that's a 'sackable' offense. But as incompetent as BoJo was, the alternative Labor (:democratic) party seems to be even more odious. And they just can't gain any political traction from BoJo's (:Trump's) COVID-19 awfulness.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 4:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The problem with preventing epidemics is that if you do everything right ... nothing happens.

That tends to lead to the question "What WOULD have happened if we had done nothing"?

That's why I look at primarily Sweden and Norway, two nations that are culturally, economically, socially, as alike as possible, with the exception that Sweden has decided not to impose mandated social distancing while Norway has.

So, just checkin in with these nations on 91-divoc, I see that Sweden has surpassed a whole number of nations in deaths/MM, and is closing in on the Netherlands, which was one of the EU nations noted with a relatively high death rate - not quite as bad as Italy and Spain, but almost. So Sweden has jumped up to 187 deaths/MM and is still climbing rather smartly. It still has that peculiar "stairstep" pattern to the data.

Norway OTOH is at about 35 deaths/MM. Altho other nations have managed to control their outbreaks more successfully (Albania, Lithuania, Greece etc) Norways's curve is a lot flatter than Sweden's.

Just as a point of curiosity, Czechia has been pointed out quite often as the nation which requires wearing masks in public. Their current death rate is 19.5/MM.

However, masks weren't their only response. They were one of the first to close their borders to China (Jan 30), Italy, S Korea, and Iran (Mar 2-7), and eventually to all nations (Apr 6), one of the first to ban gatherings (Mar 23) and close schools (mar 10), and require face masks (march 18). Since then, they have eased a lot of rstrictions.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, April 24, 2020 4:30 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FWIW I also went to DIVOC and looked through major countries with significant outbreaks, new deaths/ day/ 1M linear graph. (When I refer to significant outbreaks, that leaves SK, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Norway and so on out of the picture, since they started their responses early and have kept cases and deaths down to a manageable, minimal level.)

I wanted to see which countries had turned the corner on new deaths/ day/ 1M. Only Spain and Italy are on a very slow decent, kind of like a slowly sagging plateau. All other major countries are still on a upswing or have plateaued. (A few more days might reveal a new pattern, but not as of today.)


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Friday, April 24, 2020 4:57 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just as a point of curiosity, Czechia has been pointed out quite often as the nation which requires wearing masks in public. Their current death rate is 19.5/MM.

However, masks weren't their only response. They were one of the first to close their borders to China (Jan 30), Italy, S Korea, and Iran (Mar 2-7), and eventually to all nations (Apr 6), one of the first to ban gatherings (Mar 23) and close schools (mar 10), and require face masks (march 18). Since then, they have eased a lot of restrictions.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

SK which doesn't mandate but has strong social pressure to wear a mask in public doesn't even register a death rate/ 1M

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Friday, April 24, 2020 8:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The problem with preventing epidemics is that if you do everything right ... nothing happens.

That tends to lead to the question "What WOULD have happened if we had done nothing"?

That's why I look at primarily Sweden and Norway, two nations that are culturally, economically, socially, as alike as possible, with the exception that Sweden has decided not to impose mandated social distancing while Norway has.

So, just checkin in with these nations on 91-divoc, I see that Sweden has surpassed a whole number of nations in deaths/MM, and is closing in on the Netherlands, which was one of the EU nations noted with a relatively high death rate - not quite as bad as Italy and Spain, but almost. So Sweden has jumped up to 187 deaths/MM and is still climbing rather smartly. It still has that peculiar "stairstep" pattern to the data.

Norway OTOH is at about 35 deaths/MM. Altho other nations have managed to control their outbreaks more successfully (Albania, Lithuania, Greece etc) Norways's curve is a lot flatter than Sweden's.

Just as a point of curiosity, Czechia has been pointed out quite often as the nation which requires wearing masks in public. Their current death rate is 19.5/MM.

However, masks weren't their only response. They were one of the first to close their borders to China (Jan 30), Italy, S Korea, and Iran (Mar 2-7), and eventually to all nations (Apr 6), one of the first to ban gatherings (Mar 23) and close schools (mar 10), and require face masks (march 18). Since then, they have eased a lot of rstrictions.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK




You're still talking almost nothing in Sweeden. 2,021 deaths out of a population 10,230,000. I guaranty you that most of those are old and ill people.

And just like you can't prove that preventative measures did anything, you also can't prove that they didn't do anything either.



At some point you just have to look at the numbers as a whole and realize that this is not nearly as deadly as the panic mongers were saying that it would be and start looking at what we're doing to everybody else's lives and potentially their livelihood going forward in response to it and asking yourself if it's worth it.

We haven't even begun to really feel the effects of it yet. We'll know more about it when we see how many people who used to be employed don't have a job to go back to when things start opening up again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:04 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not going to adhere to those specific weeks.

Of course not. That's because you just blithely ignore reality.

Quote:

SIX: I'm not wrong though.
Well, if you're saying that the # of deaths per day will eventually go down as vulnerable people die off... you're right! But it won't happen as you show because there are still lots and lots and lots more (about 20X more) people across the USA to be infected, so my guess is that if we follow your "advice" and don't try to slow transmisison down the number of deaths per day would peak out 10X higher than it is now. So yeah... imagine that chart ten times taller, and the #of deaths per day at 15,000, not 2,000.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK



No. You don't know that.

Models showing that 50 to 80 times as many people are infected than we know about (and I'm not providing a link for that since YOU AND KIKI posted those already, and you know exactly what I'm talking about) show a much higher number of those infected.

Current Known Cases in America: 869,172

x50 = 43,458,600

x80 = 69,533,760


People living in America: 328,200,000

x50: 328,200,000 / 43,458,000 = 7.5 times

x80: 328,200,000 / 69,533,760 = 4.7 times

(Neither of these are close to x20)



Current Deaths (supposedly) by Coomph in US: 49,963

x50: 49,963 x 7.5 = 374,723 (.115% of all Americans)

x80: 49,963 x 4.7 = 234,826 (.072% of all Americans)


I did imagine the chart taller. Not 10 times, but I'm under no illusion this number won't grow for a while. But eventually there is no one left to infect, and if there isn't any real evidence that re-infection will occur AND is still dangerous the 2nd time than what I'm saying holds true.

Almost all of the people who were going to die from this before the shutdowns are likely to die of something else soon or are going to eventually die of this anyhow.

But at the end of the day, it's going to be an extremely small portion of the population. This isn't even throwing old people under the bus since most old people who get it aren't even going to die from it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:09 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol no.

You're going to have riots on the street if this social isolation goes another month.

You better figure out another answer or just let this thing run its course.




Do you miss going to work? Yup, didn't think so.

I'm guessing (not really) that there's someone or group behind the recent, coordinate, well organized, perfectly timed, all in states with Dem Govs, "we want to go back to work!" bullshit. Were you out there banging a drum to go back to your sh*t job? No? Why not?



Yeah. I actually do. I loved my job.

It's not just about work.

If you don't get it now, you will.




How'd you lose it?

Do you think that's true of most of these yahoos out "protesting?" Total BS if you think so.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Almost all of the people who were going to die from this before the shutdowns are likely to die of something else soon or are going to eventually die of this anyhow.




Everyone dies eventually, so let's just stop Health Care in general - we'd save tons of money. Less traffic, no waiting in long lines, front row seating, nothing but upside. And by all means, let's let politicians decide on who to treat and when. TSSYP

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol no.

You're going to have riots on the street if this social isolation goes another month.

You better figure out another answer or just let this thing run its course.




Do you miss going to work? Yup, didn't think so.

I'm guessing (not really) that there's someone or group behind the recent, coordinate, well organized, perfectly timed, all in states with Dem Govs, "we want to go back to work!" bullshit. Were you out there banging a drum to go back to your sh*t job? No? Why not?



Yeah. I actually do. I loved my job.

It's not just about work.

If you don't get it now, you will.




How'd you lose it?

Do you think that's true of most of these yahoos out "protesting?" Total BS if you think so.





How do you know half of my story but don't know all of it?


After corporate restructuring and replacement of the store manager and some middle management, I got laid off. My shift was deleted. Third time in my life I've been laid off now. First time it was at a low paying job. Sure, the money sucked, but once they got to know my work ethic I was able to pick my own schedule and got an amazing workout every night since I volunteered to do the area that was the most physical work. They also let me work 10 hours per night instead of the 7.5 hours we got on our normal shifts because they were happy to have me around as long as I wanted to. And none of my "peers" even bitched about my special privileges because they were just as happy to see me on nights I worked as the management was because it meant they had an easy night.

Pay could have been better. But I don't need much money and some things are more important than cash when you're not a wage slave.




But I'm wondering what your point is here...

Are you suggesting that people who aren't working now because they hate their jobs are better off for it?


Because I guaranty you that when the "free" government money stops and the economy opens back up and millions who used to have jobs don't have one to go back to that will not be the case.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Almost all of the people who were going to die from this before the shutdowns are likely to die of something else soon or are going to eventually die of this anyhow.




Everyone dies eventually, so let's just stop Health Care in general - we'd save tons of money. Less traffic, no waiting in long lines, front row seating, nothing but upside. And by all means, let's let politicians decide on who to treat and when. TSSYP




I didn't say anything about health care, dummy.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:27 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At some point you just have to look at the numbers as a whole and realize that this is not nearly as deadly as the panic mongers were saying that it would be and start looking at what we're doing to everybody else's lives and potentially their livelihood going forward in response to it and asking yourself if it's worth it.



That's because people stayed home, doofus. Can't contract it if you stay away from those that have it, gdamn. You still don't get how a virus works.

The problem is how to reintegrate everyone without making it worse. Too many people too fast and we go back to overwhelming HC providers and that's a DEF Con 5 situation - absolutely can't keep pushing those people.
Georgia? Trump pushed the Gov and he took the bait. He's out on a limb all by himself. Well, with his entire state. They're the test subject. We'll see. Would they even post the real numbers if they were bad? Or would Trump fire people until he finds one who will say "it worked!"

TREATMENT is key. Vaccine is way too far out to be effective in bringing back any semblance of normal or a stable economy.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At some point you just have to look at the numbers as a whole and realize that this is not nearly as deadly as the panic mongers were saying that it would be and start looking at what we're doing to everybody else's lives and potentially their livelihood going forward in response to it and asking yourself if it's worth it.



That's because people stayed home, doofus. Can't contract it if you stay away from those that have it, gdamn. You still don't get how a virus works.

The problem is how to reintegrate everyone without making it worse. Too many people too fast and we go back to overwhelming HC providers and that's a DEF Con 5 situation - absolutely can't keep pushing those people.
Georgia? Trump pushed the Gov and he took the bait. He's out on a limb all by himself. Well, with his entire state. They're the test subject. We'll see. Would they even post the real numbers if they were bad? Or would Trump fire people until he finds one who will say "it worked!"

TREATMENT is key. Vaccine is way too far out to be effective in bringing back any semblance of normal or a stable economy.



No it's not. (In regards to the underlined sentence).

You can look at my math. At 100% infection rate not even 500,000 die here from this, and the number could be quite a bit smaller.

You have to start asking yourself if the life we're going to go back to is worth saving lives of people who didn't have a lot of time left in the first place.

I know a bleeding heart pussy like you can't comprehend that idea and it makes you cry just thinking about it.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 9:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


https://reason.com/2020/04/22/shouldnt-covid-19s-lethality-inform-the-
response-to-it
/

Quote:

Confirmed cases are limited to people who have tested positive for the virus, and testing so far has been skewed toward people with severe symptoms. Since people infected by the virus typically experience mild to no symptoms, it is not surprising that the official tally understates the number of infections, although the apparent size of the gap is striking.

Since the number of infections in Los Angeles County is much higher than the official numbers indicate, Ferrer told reporters, the risk of transmission is higher than expected, which reinforces the case for aggressive control measures, including broad business closure and stay-at-home orders. At the same time, she said, the fact that 95 percent or so of the county's adult population remains uninfected shows those measures are working.

In other words, no matter what the actual prevalence of the virus is, and no matter how you look at it, that information justifies maintaining the statewide lockdown. One wonders what conceivable results from the antibody study might have caused Ferrer to reconsider the wisdom of that policy.

The question is especially pressing in light of the fatality rate implied by the study. In contrast with the current crude case fatality rate of about 4.5 percent, Ferrer said, the study suggests that 0.1 percent to 0.2 percent of people infected by the virus will die, which would make COVID-19 only somewhat more deadly than the seasonal flu.

That finding is consistent with the results of an earlier antibody study in Santa Clara County. "The mortality rate now has dropped a lot," Ferrer conceded.



Santa Clara Study:

https://reason.com/2020/04/17/covid-19-lethality-not-much-different-th
an-flu-says-new-study
/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 10:02 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
How do you know half of my story but don't know all of it?



wtf? Who the fuk cares about your "story???"

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
After corporate restructuring... yawn

But I don't need much money and some things are more important than cash when you're not a wage slave.



Huh - like maybe being alive? Like those old people you want to see die off?

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Are you suggesting that people who aren't working now because they hate their jobs are better off for it?



I'd say ask them but I know you wouldn't get a straight answer. Some yes, some not so much.
I do know that if they want their old jobs and life back, those jobs will only last or be sustainable if the virus is treatable or if people have the confidence to go to their workplace and to shop, that they won't get sick just getting haircut.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Because I guaranty you that when the "free" government money stops and the economy opens back up and millions who used to have jobs don't have one to go back to that will not be the case.



And how would "opening up" help if it just means more people get sick and die and huge part of the population doesn't want to get within 6 feet of anyone?

Oh, right, Jack says they won't.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 10:08 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:That's because people stayed home, doofus. Can't contract it if you stay away from those that have it, gdamn.
No it's not. (In regards to the underlined sentence).



So it's just been a coincidence that once the stay the fuk home was put in place new cases dropped?

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You can look at my math.



pass

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I know a bleeding heart pussy like you can't comprehend that idea and it makes you cry just thinking about it.



This whole thing has you flipping out, doesn't it? Seriously, since this thing happened you've been a flaming asshole to just about everyone here. Nice one.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 10:11 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Almost all of the people who were going to die from this before the shutdowns are likely to die of something else soon or are going to eventually die of this anyhow.




Everyone dies eventually, so let's just stop Health Care in general - we'd save tons of money. Less traffic, no waiting in long lines, front row seating, nothing but upside. And by all means, let's let politicians decide on who to treat and when. TSSYP



I didn't say anything about health care, dummy.




You sure didn't - just let 'em die.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 12:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
How do you know half of my story but don't know all of it?



wtf? Who the fuk cares about your "story???"



You asked me, dumbfuck. Don't ask questions if you don't want to know the answer to them.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
After corporate restructuring... yawn

But I don't need much money and some things are more important than cash when you're not a wage slave.



Quote:

Huh - like maybe being alive? Like those old people you want to see die off?


At this point, I just about have nothing to say to you other than "shut up faggot".

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Are you suggesting that people who aren't working now because they hate their jobs are better off for it?



Quote:

I'd say ask them but I know you wouldn't get a straight answer. Some yes, some not so much.
I do know that if they want their old jobs and life back, those jobs will only last or be sustainable if the virus is treatable or if people have the confidence to go to their workplace and to shop, that they won't get sick just getting haircut.



Nobody but the extremely old and already sick are going to die getting a haircut, pussy.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Because I guaranty you that when the "free" government money stops and the economy opens back up and millions who used to have jobs don't have one to go back to that will not be the case.



Quote:

And how would "opening up" help if it just means more people get sick and die and huge part of the population doesn't want to get within 6 feet of anyone?


Because that's only in your head, retard.

Quote:

Oh, right, Jack says they won't.



I haven't been wrong here yet.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 1:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

JACK:
You're still talking almost nothing in Sweden.

Because Sweden isn't the US. More than half of Sweden's residences house just one person. A quarter of Sweden's workers work from home, a third of them do in Stockholm, and 90% do for the largest companies. It has no large metropolises. Its very largest city, Stockholm, has about 1M people, the same size as San Jose, California. 90% of Swedes say they're socially isolating due to SARS-COV-2.

With all that going for it, Sweden, with a population of 1M has over 2,100 deaths, and heading sharply up. Norway, with a similar setting to Sweden and a population of 0.5M has 200 deaths, or less than 1/5 of Sweden's on a per capita basis and slowly increasing. And Los Angeles County, with a vastly different culture and 10M inhabitants, has 800 deaths or quite a bit less than half of Sweden, on a per capita basis, on a similar slope with Norway.

Social isolation works.

Now, in case you think I'm in favor of social isolation, I'd like to remind you that I'm all for states opening up without any controls at all ... as long as it passes by majority referendum, and as long as they don't later go to the feds for COVID $help$ because they messed up.

What I would LIKE to see is mandatory mask-wearing in public. It's the fastest, cheapest, simplest, least intrusive measure to take.


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Friday, April 24, 2020 2:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

JACK:
Models showing that 50 to 80 times as many people are infected than we know about (and I'm not providing a link for that since YOU AND KIKI posted those already, and you know exactly what I'm talking about) show a much higher number of those infected.

Your numbers are off.

I've already disproved the 4% figure for anywhere but Santa Clara and Los Angeles counties (where the 4% numbers were generated) because when applied to California as a whole, and using that factor to apply to NYC, they give an infection rate of 150%. Even taking 2 random counties in California and applying that figure across the state gives a bogus factor. Applying the LACounty 4% infection rate to LACounty alone, them back-calculating to NYC gives an infection rate of 50%, which is better than 150%, but over twice the current measurement of 20%.

OBVIOUSLY you can't take a percent from one population and apply it to another, because you know those populations differ in terms of exposure. Nome Alaska is not Long Beach, California.

Your assumptions are invalid.




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Friday, April 24, 2020 2:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Anyway, I was hoping to look at Los Angeles County to see what affects different measures might have on infections rate. But the data looks erratic - provably so when one laboratory submitted 1,100 backlogged positive results in a single transaction. I might have to wait for data to smooth out over longer time periods, or the information might not be recoverable at all.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 3:20 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I haven't been wrong here yet.



Really? Remember how just last week you didn't know what RT/retweets were, and thought they were some kind of conspiracy?

Remember 6StringJack: "When we get Mitt into the President's Chair (which is an inevatibility now), I will vote for Dems in the congress in 2014."

Remember 6ixstringjack ...predicts seeing a '15% sales taxes and 85% taxes on booze and smokes', and generally we should 'expect to pay more for everything'.

Remember: 6ixstringjack No way Obama gets another term...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51008&p=2

The real question is: are you right about anything?

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Friday, April 24, 2020 3:35 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

JACK:
You're still talking almost nothing in Sweden.

Because Sweden isn't the US. More than half of Sweden's residences house just one person. A quarter of Sweden's workers work from home, a third of them do in Stockholm, and 90% do for the largest companies. It has no large metropolises. Its very largest city, Stockholm, has about 1M people, the same size as San Jose, California. 90% of Swedes say they're socially isolating due to SARS-COV-2.

With all that going for it, Sweden, with a population of 1M has over 2,100 deaths, and heading sharply up. Norway, with a similar setting to Sweden and a population of 0.5M has 200 deaths, or less than 1/5 of Sweden's on a per capita basis and slowly increasing. And Los Angeles County, with a vastly different culture and 10M inhabitants, has 800 deaths or quite a bit less than half of Sweden, on a per capita basis, on a similar slope with Norway.

Social isolation works.

Now, in case you think I'm in favor of social isolation, I'd like to remind you that I'm all for states opening up without any controls at all ... as long as it passes by majority referendum, and as long as they don't later go to the feds for COVID $help$ because they messed up.

What I would LIKE to see is mandatory mask-wearing in public. It's the fastest, cheapest, simplest, least intrusive measure to take.




I'm all for mask wearing in public, but with soft enforcement - more encouragement than enforcement. Warnings mostly. Some people, including Dumpfuss, are too vain or too immature to wear them in front of others, so just a push could help them get over themselves.

I wouldn't trust any state that screws up with 'too soon and too much' and pays a price, to not try and guilt the Fed Gov for aid after the fact.

Thanks for pointing out how different Sweden is from the US! Some people only see numbers without thinking what's under it all.

BTW 41 grocery store workers have died from c-19.

Hey Jack - at what age can we write someone off as, "they were going to die anyway?" Anyone 70+? 80+? 85? Who gets to make that call?

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Friday, April 24, 2020 5:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


South Korea has done really well with a social campaign of mask-wearing (and also, mass testing, contact tracing, MANDATORY police-enforced quarantine of anyone testing positive, and border control; plus the fact that half of SK's cases were highly concentrated in a single Church). But SK has a strong culture of social cooperation. In one of the many links I have is a story about how an old, unmasked man was coughing on a bus, and the frowns directed at him made him so uncomfortable he got off.

Just like the US isn't like Sweden, the US isn't like SK either. OTOH the US isn't like the US as well! Boise, Idaho is nothing like Baltimore, Maryland. Nome, Alaska couldn't be more different from New York, New York. So maybe there needs to be some nuance in response. I can see where places with a lot of naturally inbuilt social isolation could get a lot of mileage out of 'encouraged' mask-wearing. But in other places I can see where that would be appallingly insufficient, given how many people are in contact with each other in the course of a normal day, and how many people are actively opposed to anything other than rugged individualism and opposed to any type of authority.

I also don't think it works without mass testing, contact-tracing, and quarantining.

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Friday, April 24, 2020 8:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

JACK:
Models showing that 50 to 80 times as many people are infected than we know about (and I'm not providing a link for that since YOU AND KIKI posted those already, and you know exactly what I'm talking about) show a much higher number of those infected.

Your numbers are off.

I've already disproved the 4% figure for anywhere but Santa Clara and Los Angeles counties (where the 4% numbers were generated) because when applied to California as a whole, and using that factor to apply to NYC, they give an infection rate of 150%. Even taking 2 random counties in California and applying that figure across the state gives a bogus factor. Applying the LACounty 4% infection rate to LACounty alone, them back-calculating to NYC gives an infection rate of 50%, which is better than 150%, but over twice the current measurement of 20%.

OBVIOUSLY you can't take a percent from one population and apply it to another, because you know those populations differ in terms of exposure. Nome Alaska is not Long Beach, California.

Your assumptions are invalid.







No. You're wrong.

I already did the math for NYC.

At 80 times it's a bit higher than 100%

At 50 times it's 67%.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 8:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

BTW 41 grocery store workers have died from c-19.



No they didn't.

Quote:

Hey Jack - at what age can we write someone off as, "they were going to die anyway?" Anyone 70+? 80+? 85? Who gets to make that call?



It depends on how fat and stupid they are.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 24, 2020 8:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

JACK:

"Models showing that 50 to 80 times as many people are infected than we know about "

No. You're wrong.

I already did the math for NYC.

At 80 times it's a bit higher than 100%

At 50 times it's 67%.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NYC infection rate MEASUREMENTS show that you're wrong. NYC MEASUREMENTS show a 20% infection rate. So there's no need to try and shoehorn Santa Clara numbers onto NYC to try and guesstimate what portion of NYC has already had it.

And you just claiming you're right doesn't make it so.

But what the heck. Keep insisting that reality isn't so. It's no skin off of my nose.

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Saturday, April 25, 2020 6:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Coronavirus Diagnoses In Staff Drop By Half After Boston Hospital Requires Masks For All
April 23, 2020
Carey Goldberg

After Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston began requiring that nearly everyone in the hospital wear masks, new coronavirus infections diagnosed in its staffers dropped by half — or more.

Brigham and Women’s epidemiologist Dr. Michael Klompas said the hospital mandated masks for all health care staffers on March 25, and extended the requirement to patients as well on April 6.

"When we first began our universal masking policy, we had 12 to 14 new infections per day among our health care workers," he said. "And then after we instituted employee masking, that number dropped down to around eight."]licNPR One

It dropped still further to about six new infections a day once patients had to wear masks, too.

This is by no means gold-plated evidence, Klompas said, and correlation is not causation, but it does suggest that wearing simple masks

presumably disposable paper masks
Quote:

may help stem the spread of the virus, whether in a hospital or out in public.

He hopes to find out whether other hospitals in the Partners Healthcare system, which imposed the "universal mask" policy system-wide, have seen similar drops. "If it's a consistent pattern, I'd be more apt to believe it," he said.

It's thought that employees most often catch the virus outside the hospital, Klompas said, so that could explain why the number of new infections did not drop all the way to zero.

Before the masking policy was brought in, the numbers of new infections had been rising steadily, he explained. Under the new policy, they stabilized and then within a couple of days began to drop, even though the overall numbers were still rising in Boston and Massachusetts.

"So we were seeing a mismatch," he said, "in between what was happening with the health-care workers, where things were getting better, compared to the rest of the town, where things were getting worse."

The universal mask policy was still relatively rare when the Partners hospitals imposed it in late March, but is now common.

Reaction to the masking policy has been positive, Klompas said.

"My biggest challenge is simply remembering that I need to put my mask on every time I leave my office," he added. "Even I need reminding."



https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/23/brigham-and-womens-masks-
infections


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, April 25, 2020 8:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Here's a link for you, Dummy.

https://people.com/food/world-face-multiple-famines-biblical-proportio
ns-coronavirus-crisis
/

I know you don't take stuff I post seriously without one, and I don't usually care, but since male suicides in our country are of no concern for you, here's the prelude to an insane amount of people who are going to die of hunger just so you don't get a wittle cold. Boo hoo.

Quote:


UN Leader Says the World Could Face 'Famines of Biblical Proportions' amid Coronavirus Crisis

“While dealing with a COVID-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic,” David Beasley, the director of the UN World Food Program warned

As the world continues to battle the coronavirus pandemic, the United Nations is warning that without action, the world is at risk of numerous famines “of biblical proportions” in the near future.

He explained that famines could be seen “in about three dozen countries,” ten of which already have more than 1 million people on the verge of starvation.

“There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of COVID-19 than from the virus itself,” he warned.




lol

I'm right again. Imagine that.


And yes... I did mention this the other day repeatedly, but it was ignored by both of you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 25, 2020 12:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Your father and brother are going to starve to death??!!! My gosh! I thought you were in Indiana, not India!

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Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


That response doesn't even make any sense, dummy.

Try again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That response doesn't even make any sense, dummy.

Try again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

It makes as much sense as yours.

SIX, if you're really worried about someone near and dear to you committing suicide, why not step in to help? Your brother ... he's on meds, right? He has a doctor, right? How about calling the doctor and expressing your concern? He has a church, right? How about calling the pastor or minister and expressing your concern?

Now, I don't know what kind of support your dad has, but I gather that he and wife made two unwise moves in a row, first to one of the sunshine retirement states (AZ?) and then to FL to help out a step-child launch some sort of new business. And then covid-19 came along, and prolly torpedoed the business. Unlucky timing! MOST small businesses fail, but this really was a death-knell.

Does he have Social Security and/or any retirement plan? He may have to tighten his belt, but I hope he's looking for ways to get thru this.

In any case, if you know ANYBODY who seems imminently about to commit suicide, PLEASE give them a suicide hotline number.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, April 25, 2020 2:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JACK:
since male suicides in our country are of no concern for you, here's the prelude to an insane amount of people who are going to die of hunger

Quote:

Originally posted by JACK:
That response doesn't even make any sense, dummy.

Try again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You mean they're NOT going to commit suicide by starvation in India? I suppose that should be some relief!

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