REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, July 6, 2020 19:01
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 28793
PAGE 24 of 38

Wednesday, April 8, 2020 2:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Since we have absolutely no way of knowing who is and who is not infected, except for people who are extremely ill going to hospitals that actually have the ability to test for the virus, there is zero reason to think that there have actually been less cases after the lockdown.

You're reading your own desires into results of a grand "scientific" test that doesn't have any constant and has far too many variables.

Don't lie to yourself.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 7:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I heard about, but have not been able to find a follow-up article on the fact that the UK's NHS deemed the serological test kits to be not acccurate enough, and won't distribute them. I don't know if the problem is poor sensitivity or lack of specificity. There is ANOTHER serological finger-stick test for Covid-19 antibodies which the company (falsely) claimed was approved by the FDA (BodySphere) https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/coronavirus-test-false-fda-autho
rization/index.html


As far as I can tell, the only serological test approved by the FDA by Cellex https://www.medtechdive.com/news/fda-authorizes-cellex-coronavirus-ant
ibodies-test/575451
/ is for in-office and in-laboratory testing. So, no five-minute or two-minute or in-home test yet, altho I'm sure one will be developed at some point (It's a tried-and-true approach)



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


The question is, what would be the point of a home test?

It's not going to do you any good in regards to going back to work or not having to abide any unconstitutional STAYTHEFUCKHOME laws.

I don't see how bragging rights is going to help put people back to work so they can put food on the table, or help anybody get out from under their Constitutional rights being trampled.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In the meantime, while some people are chasing the ever-elusive "forsythia" (If you've seen "Contagion" you know what I mean) people are being treated with the plasma of recovered Covid-19 patients. (Too many links, so I'll just go with the government's choice) So there may be some incentive for various health organizations to expand serological testing, not just to answer the burning questions "How many people have been infected?" and "Are we close to herd immunity yet?" but also to look for donors. Maybe the bait will be ... "Do you want a test? Then you have to sign up to be a donor".

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/investigational-new-drug-
ind-or-device-exemption-ide-process-cber/recommendations-investigational-covid-19-convalescent-plasma



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SIX, you're irrational. SOME things trump (ahem!) your so-called Constitutional rights. When various epidemics and pandemics swept the world, it required that people change their behavior. To curb the TB epidemics that would sweep thru early USA, people had to give up their right to spit on the sidewalk and their right to share drinking glasses. People with TB were quarantined.

Nobody has a "god-given" right to spit in the village drinking well. Reality: It is as it is.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


dbl

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In the meantime, while some people are chasing the ever-elusive "forsythia" (If you've seen "Contagion" you know what I mean) people are being treated with the plasma of recovered Covid-19 patients. (Too many links, so I'll just go with the government's choice) So there may be some incentive for various health organizations to expand serological testing, not just to answer the burning questions "How many people have been infected?" and "Are we close to herd immunity yet?" but also to look for donors. Maybe the bait will be ... "Do you want a test? Then you have to sign up to be a donor".

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/investigational-new-drug-
ind-or-device-exemption-ide-process-cber/recommendations-investigational-covid-19-convalescent-plasma



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

I saw some of the technology on a video. They don't just look for 'antibodies', they do a semi-quantitative test for 'how much', as determined by the depth of a yellow color in the individuals tests in the individual wells of a multi-well plate.

I saw that they they carefully measured everything in (the one person I saw was using perfect automatic pipettor technique!), what I don't know is if they have a plate-well reader that quantifies the color, or if they just do some kind of visual-matching cutoff.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I heard about, but have not been able to find a follow-up article on the fact that the UK's NHS deemed the serological test kits to be not acccurate enough, and won't distribute them. I don't know if the problem is poor sensitivity or lack of specificity. There is ANOTHER serological finger-stick test for Covid-19 antibodies which the company (falsely) claimed was approved by the FDA (BodySphere) https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/coronavirus-test-false-fda-autho
rization/index.html


As far as I can tell, the only serological test approved by the FDA by Cellex https://www.medtechdive.com/news/fda-authorizes-cellex-coronavirus-ant
ibodies-test/575451
/ is for in-office and in-laboratory testing. So, no five-minute or two-minute or in-home test yet, altho I'm sure one will be developed at some point (It's a tried-and-true approach)



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

Thanks for tracking that down!

Just fyi, the in-home version was a finger-stick test, not something as handy as urine testing. Finger-sticks are quick, but relatively inaccurate as tests go, even though diabetics rely on them. There's just too much variation in blood flow to the fingertips, how well they've been lanced, how much squeezing people do to get enough blood, and so forth. So aside from any inherent technology issues there might be, the technique itself tends to poor results.

I imagine the tests need a blood draw.

Also, they're not a yes/no test - they require other clinical data.

Quote:

The test, however, "should not be used as the sole basis for diagnosis and can only aid in the diagnosis of patients in conjunction with a medical review of symptoms and results of other laboratory tests," FDA said in its authorization letter to ?Cellex, a Research Triangle Park, North Carolina-based firm behind the test.


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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 8:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And FINALLY!!!

Blue shop towels filter small particles better than cotton!

Quote:

Using blue shop towels in homemade face masks can filter particles 2x to 3x better than cotton, 3 clothing designers discover after testing dozens of fabrics

..."We spent a few days researching and brainstorming any material that could filter: coffee filters, batting, window shades, Swiffer, interfacing, etc., all the way to more technical materials that are available to specialized industrial sectors like aviation, oil refinery, medical fields," Schempf said.

They bought a $1,400 particulate-counter device from Grainger that measures filtration ability down to 0.3 microns and spent another 10 sleepless days testing all the fabrics they could find.

They wanted a material they could buy as easily as cotton but that balanced filtration with breathability — they discovered that HEPA vacuum-cleaner bags, for instance, had great filtration but were too suffocating to wear.

The ideal material turned out to be stretchy blue shop towels made from a polyester hydro knit.

Inserting two of these towels into an ordinary cotton mask brought filtration up to 93% of particles as small as 0.3 microns, the smallest their machine could test. Meanwhile, the cotton masks filtered 60% of particles at best in their tests, Schempf said.

Polyester hydro knit towels are readily available at hardware and automotive stores. The two brands they tested were ToolBox's shop towel and ZEP's industrial blue towel. Interestingly, Scott's pro shop towels, which are also made with a hydro knit fabric, didn't work as well, Schempf said.


https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-to
wel-filters-better-2020-4?op=1


Thanks to hubby for finding this!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 9:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Have fun breathing through them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 9:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX, you're irrational. SOME things trump (ahem!) your so-called Constitutional rights. When various epidemics and pandemics swept the world, it required that people change their behavior. To curb the TB epidemics that would sweep thru early USA, people had to give up their right to spit on the sidewalk and their right to share drinking glasses. People with TB were quarantined.

Nobody has a "god-given" right to spit in the village drinking well. Reality: It is as it is.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME





Apples to Oranges.

Having your ability to spit on the street shelved is quite a bit different than being on what amounts to 24/7 lockdown/quarantine for a majority of US citizens regardless if they're healthy or not, along with losing their jobs that they don't even know will still exist when these Communist drills are over.


I'm sure Bezos owned WaPo is going to tell you how great everything is after the fact though, yanno... when 50% of Ma and Pa shops don't make it through 2021 in the aftermath and Amazon.com becomes the go-to place for most Americans to buy all of their shit they don't need.

All it takes is a month to 6 weeks to ingrain new habits into people. When you force everybody to live a certain way for a long enough time, that might be the way they choose to live when they're no longer being forced.


Why do you suppose they voluntarily gave out all that "free" money and unemployment?

People would not behave long enough under these new conditions for the new habits to form if they weren't being paid to do so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hey KIKI, the whole thing is interesting but at 17:14 he starts a discussion of a paper in the South China Morning Post (SCMP) describing a study of 174 people who had recovered from Covid-19 and then tested for antibody titers. The authors found that about 30% of the recovered patients (mostly young) had antibody titers too low to be considered protective.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


There's one other virus I know of that behaves like that, and it's Hantavirus, though they're completely different virus families.

Children (before puberty) aren't affected, but adults are.

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Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:34 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey KIKI, the whole thing is interesting but at 17:14 he starts a discussion of a paper in the South China Morning Post (SCMP) describing a study of 174 people who had recovered from Covid-19 and then tested for antibody titers. The authors found that about 30% of the recovered patients (mostly young) had antibody titers too low to be considered protective.


#STAYTHEFUCKHOME



If that's true, then there is zero reason to #STAYTHEFUCKHOME.

Unless you're suggesting that we just do this for the rest of our lives.




EDITED TO ADD:

mediabiasfactcheck.com can't even be bothered to review them.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/sources-pending/





EDITED TO ADD 2:

Here's the "study" being referenced: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v1

Take a look at the "Tweets Referencing This Article" at the bottom of the page. Kind of funny how the same three replies show up over and over and over and over and over and over and over again by different "people".

Looks like a huge misinformation farm spreading this "study" all over Twitter to me.


EDITED TO ADD 3:

I'm going to quote/post the entire string of Twitter replies here even though it's probably going to look like a garbled mess, for posterity.

Quote:

Proud Uncle Cliff
@cliffsatton

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
03:08AM
Michelle Wille
@DuckSwabber

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
03:07AM
Jose A.
@jacmbrd

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
03:03AM
????????????
@baby_mead0ws

alarmism really is driving a high price nowadays!
03:02AM
n
@hijodeprada

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
03:02AM
Peter Williams
@peter_c_william

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
03:01AM
eleanorina
@_eleanorina

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
03:01AM
????????????
@baby_mead0ws

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
03:01AM
Andrew Riddle
@AndrewRiddle36

And we don't even know that you can expect to only get COVID-19 once. We know that SARS antibodies were mostly gone 3 years on, and this preprint found 30% of COVID-19 patients had big reductions in antibodies 3 *months* on. https://t.co/kfDrVyyHRt
03:00AM
Epidemiology+Virology Experts. Fighting COVID-19
@EpiD18329833

RT @AdamJKucharski: Interesting preliminary data on neutralising antibody responses in recovered COVID-19 patients. Seems there can be a wi…
03:00AM
?????????????????? ????????????, ?????? ???? ????
@preopticarea

RT @aetiology: @ChelseaClinton @ChuckWendig @DoctorYasmin The person you tweeted earlier has a lot of fans but often is out of his depth. S…
02:58AM
Janet Kay??????
@tinyboo49

RT @aetiology: @ChelseaClinton @ChuckWendig @DoctorYasmin The person you tweeted earlier has a lot of fans but often is out of his depth. S…
02:58AM
Eric
@EtonnantNon4456

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:58AM
?? Michael C?????????????????¸. Bazaco ??
@MCBazacoPhD

RT @aetiology: @ChelseaClinton @ChuckWendig @DoctorYasmin The person you tweeted earlier has a lot of fans but often is out of his depth. S…
02:57AM
Eric
@EtonnantNon4456

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:57AM
??
@luckypara

RT @miyatamitsuru: ??????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? https://t.co/EyhqYnV6OP
02:57AM
Diane Beebe
@justpinchme

RT @aetiology: @ChelseaClinton @ChuckWendig @DoctorYasmin The person you tweeted earlier has a lot of fans but often is out of his depth. S…
02:55AM
babycoco
@babycoco_tw

RT @r_trainer: @influenzer3 ??????????????? https://t.co/mvpEkcR6kZ https://t.co/j2mmrNRaJz ???·??????????????(????)?????????? ???????????…
02:55AM
Dr. Tara C. Smith
@aetiology

@ChelseaClinton @ChuckWendig @DoctorYasmin The person you tweeted earlier has a lot of fans but often is out of his depth. See eg his misunderstanding earlier of antibody studies that had to be corrected by an expert in the area. https://t.co/kl8QMRafK5
02:53AM
Abigail Powell
@crabbyabz

RT @profshanecrotty: Important pre-print. First broad sero-survey of COVID19 patients. The data are great. I disagree with the focus. 94% o…
02:53AM
Michael Dow
@docmike8

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:51AM
noisediver
@noisediver

RT @AndyBiotech: #COVID19 Lots of scary headlines today on this story of "30% recovered patients had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies"…
02:50AM
sandstorm
@freesandstorm

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:49AM
?????
@kocco9

RT @RawheaD: ???????????
02:48AM
Can Sar
@cansar

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:45AM
hbd chick - test & trace, masks for all!
@hbdchick

RT @razibkhan: Neutralizing antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in a COVID-19 recovered patient cohort and their implications https://t.co/9uu
02:41AM
Minou
@Minou800

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:41AM
hbd chick - test & trace, masks for all!
@hbdchick

RT @razibkhan: ppl who know this stuff seem to be skeptical of the non-antibodies preprint.... https://t.co/gr3Xo4Qia9
02:40AM
Atlas
@urmonotheismus

RT @profshanecrotty: Important pre-print. First broad sero-survey of COVID19 patients. The data are great. I disagree with the focus. 94% o…
02:40AM
Lienka
@Lienka8

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:39AM
hbd chick - test & trace, masks for all!
@hbdchick

RT @profshanecrotty: Important pre-print. First broad sero-survey of COVID19 patients. The data are great. I disagree with the focus. 94% o…
02:39AM
Christopher Darby
@PlatypusTooth

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:37AM
Chase
@Nitro766

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:36AM
NGR
@NGR69575822

RT @thelonevirologi: Neutralizing antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in a COVID-19 recovered patient cohort and their implications https://t
02:35AM
Jasnah Kholin
@wanderer_jasnah

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:34AM
Joshua Weitz
@joshuasweitz

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:33AM
Ben Is an Isolated Rachinger
@BenSRachinger

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:32AM
buki.
@BukiWilliams

RT @Laurie_Garrett: The Chinese study adds fuel to debate over the role of neutralizing antibodies in fighting #SARSCoV2 infection. If peop…
02:32AM
Stephen Goldstein
@stgoldst

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:31AM
Linda
@wordfinga

RT @DrAsifQasim: @Uqayyum123 @hvanspall Also this - early study - suggests low Ab levels in many recovered patients - raises likely risk of…
02:31AM
Jan Soroczynski
@Jan_Soro

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:31AM
HEM/ONC IS DISTANCE SOCIALIZING
@hemofelo

This interplay between cellular and humoral immune responses might have implications for vaccine development. It is extremely important to measure NAb titers prior to using plasma as treatment. #COVID?19 https://t.co/0LO3vVJDoJ
02:30AM
David Morales-Vicente
@melancronico

RT @profshanecrotty: Important pre-print. First broad sero-survey of COVID19 patients. The data are great. I disagree with the focus. 94% o…
02:30AM
?? ?(Kei Omachi)
@SgtKoma

RT @RawheaD: ???????????
02:30AM
?? ?(Kei Omachi)
@SgtKoma

RT @RawheaD: @MayumiNarako ???????????? https://t.co/uxGrEDcZGE
02:29AM
B. De Campo
@beldecam

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:28AM
v.
@Larkcittia

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:28AM
mrhobbeys
@mrhobbeys

Having it makes your more susceptible to getting it? https://t.co/f5zpZOe3U0
02:28AM
Kurohitsuji??????????????????
@AkiyamaSheep

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:27AM
Boback Ziaeian ???????
@boback

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:26AM
Raj Mehta, MD
@raj_mehta

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:26AM
Ed Mason
@_EdwardMason

RT @AndyBiotech: #COVID19 Lots of scary headlines today on this story of "30% recovered patients had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies"…
02:24AM
Alex "Flatten the Curve" Merz
@Merz

Another day, another twitter trashfire from Feigl-Ding.
02:23AM
@HEAVENLYGENIUS
@GeniusHeavenly

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:22AM
Maria G. Trivieri
@mgtrivieri

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:22AM
??@?????
@1129Suga

RT @Noboru_Hagino: ???? NAb?????????? ??????????????? https://t.co/X3JDeJDcze
02:20AM
Raj Mehta, MD
@raj_mehta

RT @AndyBiotech: #COVID19 Lots of scary headlines today on this story of "30% recovered patients had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies"…
02:20AM
Dylan Morris
@dylanhmorris

At least in my corner of twitter, today was alarmist fake immunology day (after many anti-alarmist fake mathepi days). Glad to have legit scientists like @florian_krammer around to set the record straight
02:20AM
Venk Murthy
@venkmurthy

RT @AndyBiotech: #COVID19 Lots of scary headlines today on this story of "30% recovered patients had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies"…
02:19AM
TinyFrighteningWoman
@Baba_Lilith

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:19AM
Joe Louderback
@LouderbackJoe

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:19AM
TinyFrighteningWoman
@Baba_Lilith

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:19AM
Daniel Rödding
@dan_roedding

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:19AM
alrightythen
@jeeezelouise

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:18AM
armie °??*??*
@baitterfly

RT @balajis: Please note: science is an iterative process. People who wrote & shared this research were well-intentioned. And perhaps the r…
02:18AM
Someone very important ??
@krrrachi

@KlasraRauf please sir your help needed here to settle debate ...
02:17AM
An Aging Scientist
@ddhewitt68

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:16AM
Anurag Adhikari ????????
@anura_Adhikari

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:16AM
Jeroen Pollet
@JeroenBKPollet

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:15AM
MorriganResists
@MorriganResists

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:14AM
fipco
@fipco

@ChristosArgyrop @venkmurthy @ethanjweiss @drjohnm @djc795 @Dr_BowTie65 @tylercowen see @AndyBiotech ’s thread - this antibody test has limitations. https://t.co/C5bfP5Eq9u
02:14AM
Mike Schiffer
@mikeschiffer

RT @AndyBiotech: #COVID19 Lots of scary headlines today on this story of "30% recovered patients had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies"…
02:13AM
Stacy Herbrrrt
@stacyherbert

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:13AM
Global Biodefense
@GlobalBioD

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:12AM
Aaron Striegel
@AaronStriegel

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:11AM
mig30m6
@mig30m6

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:10AM
BevyBev63
@ChicagoLady63

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:09AM
Lyons??
@blondbanshee

RT @Laurie_Garrett: The Chinese study adds fuel to debate over the role of neutralizing antibodies in fighting #SARSCoV2 infection. If peop…
02:09AM
yaya2six
@kahlua057

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:06AM
Isabel Ott
@IsabelOtt

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:05AM
mariabernardez@gmail.com
@mariabe22360758

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:05AM
mariabernardez@gmail.com
@mariabe22360758

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:04AM
Ben Haygood
@benhaygood

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:04AM
dW ????
@SmailliwNitsud

RT @angie_rasmussen: Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is la…
02:04AM
Dr. Angela Rasmussen
@angie_rasmussen

Agreed and thank you, Dr. Krammer. Besides neutralizing antibody is not the whole entire story—the immune system is large and complex. It’s encouraging that most patients have SOME neutralizing antibody. We need to learn more about protective immunity over
02:03AM
Rosanne Azarian
@RosanneAzarian

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:03AM
Tyler Sork
@tylersork

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
02:02AM
KO_Sulli
@KO_Sulli

@DrDenaGrayson But see https://t.co/Ts3ioBOfP4
02:02AM
Sheila Keating
@smkeats

RT @profshanecrotty: Important pre-print. First broad sero-survey of COVID19 patients. The data are great. I disagree with the focus. 94% o…
01:59AM
Darryl
@Darryl_Evanoff

RT @k_e_luk: @susleec @jenheemstra @FiRawle @jesswade @KizzyPhD @VirusesImmunity @amandapepp @GSKUS 175 recovered in Shanghai, most dev SCo…
01:59AM
Richard Reithinger
@rreithinger

RT @AdamJKucharski: Interesting preliminary data on neutralising antibody responses in recovered COVID-19 patients. Seems there can be a wi…
01:58AM
(((Jody Ranck)))
@jranck

Thread worth reading
01:57AM
???
@frankincens

RT @RawheaD: ??????????? https://t.co/LLd9oduH7p
01:56AM
Monitor of the Situation #Massie2020
@Enopoletus

RT @razibkhan: ppl who know this stuff seem to be skeptical of the non-antibodies preprint.... https://t.co/gr3Xo4Qia9
01:55AM
Bolobilly
@Bolobilly

RT @Laurie_Garrett: The Chinese study adds fuel to debate over the role of neutralizing antibodies in fighting #SARSCoV2 infection. If peop…
01:55AM
Kathleen Mills
@kmills711

RT @profshanecrotty: Important pre-print. First broad sero-survey of COVID19 patients. The data are great. I disagree with the focus. 94% o…
01:54AM
zeynep tufekci
@zeynep

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
01:54AM
matttteo
@hellomatttteo

RT @AndyBiotech: #COVID19 Lots of scary headlines today on this story of "30% recovered patients had unexpectedly low levels of antibodies"…
01:53AM
Jeremy INVEST IN PUBLIC HEALTH Konyndyk
@JeremyKonyndyk

RT @florian_krammer: So, I looked at this: https://t.co/6xl42BsUl4. Of course it is a pseudotyped particle entry assays. But out of 175 ver…
01:53AM
42 followers
v.
@Larkcittia

RT @thelonevirologi: Neutralizing antibody responses to SARS-CoV-2 in a COVID-19 recovered patient cohort and their implications https://t



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:12 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hey KIKI, the whole thing is interesting but at 17:14 he starts a discussion of a paper in the South China Morning Post (SCMP) describing a study of 174 people who had recovered from Covid-19 and then tested for antibody titers. The authors found that about 30% of the recovered patients (mostly young) had antibody titers too low to be considered protective.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOMEPart of what it's about was what I posted here:



Quote:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63571&p=5
Nobody knows if those antibodies are actually protective in the first place. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Some people were truly reinfected (not just relapsed) and AFAIK there hasn't been a study on it.

Nobody knows how high an antibody concentration (titer) you need to have to be protected.

Nobody knows how broadly applicable those antibodies might be to minor - or major - variations in the strains going around.

And of course, as you mentioned nobody knows how long they last. They could be like Noro virus (cruise-ship trots) antibodies that fizzle in a few weeks, and there you are, with another lovely case after you just got over your last case.

By protective I was referring to 'neutralizing'.

Giving people immunoglobulin is an old-timey treatment, like HepB immunoglobulins, where people had a general idea that it worked but not a real understanding. So, like the buildings of the day, it was under-designed and over-built. You gave people A LOT of pooled immunoglobulins, and crossed your fingers.

In a crisis it can be kind of a hail-Mary, but it can sometimes be surprisingly successful. I forget the date, but quite a ways back when - 70's? 80's? - when there was an Ebola outbreak, a recovered patient's Ig's were given to I think 8 or 9 people, and all but one survived.

So those were 'good' antibodies - protective, neutralizing. (OTOH people also develop antibodies to HIV, but they don't stop the progression to AIDS or infectiousness to others. So those are 'bad' antibodies - ineffective.) Anyway, that Ebola survivor's lymphocytes were lovingly cultured and coaxed to produce their antibodies in large enough quantities to research.

As I mentioned earlier, those lymphocytes are from many clones producing many different antibodies (polyclonal); with each clone producing a specific antibody (monoclonal). After studying individual cell lines, it was determined that one particular clone was making very effective neutralizing antibodies. So that clone's antibody was studied to see which particular structure it was attaching itself to on the Ebola virus. And that viral structure in turn was studied to see what parts in particular were important for the immune system to recognize. And from there, an Ebola vaccine was created, which is 70% effective.

I went into all of that to illustrate how fraught the topic is. It's a long, long way from finding antibodies to anywhere else - either counting on them to make people immune or using them as a treatment or toward making a vaccine. A LOT has to go into studying them, because they may or may not be particularly efficient or effective or abundant or long-lasting or ... Simply finding antibodies is necessary, but not sufficient.

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:15 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Take a look at the "Tweets Referencing This Article" at the bottom of the page. Kind of funny how the same three replies show up over and over and over and over and over and over and over again by different "people".

Looks like a huge misinformation farm spreading this "study" all over Twitter to me.



Not funny. "RT" at the beginning stands for "ReTweet," so of course it's the same. Retweeting something means you agree or you want your followers to see what you're interested in.

But do let your conspiracy mind see what it wants to see.

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


How's this for conspiracy theory about a conspiracy theory.

Funding information for study:

Quote:

Funding Statement

This work was supported by the National Major Science and Technology Projects of China (2017ZX10202102 and 2018ZX10301403), National Natural Science Foundation of China (31771008), Hundred Talent Program of Shanghai Municipal Health Commission (2018BR08), and Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences (2019PT350002).



Yup. Let's believe China now because it feeds into the fear that we're so desperate to have justified.

I mean, China has been SO honest about everything up to this point, right?




For a guy who has spent three years believing Putin has been influencing American elections, you're pretty fucking dumb about this right now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 12:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


CORONAVRUS MAY REACTIVATE IN CURED PATIENTS, S KOREAN HEALTH AUTHORITY SAYS
Quote:

Coronavirus may 'reactivate' in cured patients, Korean health authority says
A man speaks to a nurse during at a testing booth outside Yangji hospital in Seoul on March 17, 2020.

SEOUL (BLOOMBERG) - The coronavirus may be "reactivating" in people who have been cured of the illness, according to Korea's Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC).

About 51 patients classed as having been cured in South Korea have tested positive again, the KCDC said in a briefing. Rather than being infected again, the virus may have been reactivated in these people, given they tested positive again shortly after being released from quarantine, said Mr Jeong Eun-kyeong, director-general of the KCDC.

"While we are putting more weight on reactivation as the possible cause, we are conducting a comprehensive study on this," Mr Jeong said. "There have been many cases when a patient during treatment will test negative one day and positive another." A patient is deemed fully recovered when two tests conducted with a 24-hour interval show negative results.

The KCDC will conduct an epidemiological probe into the cases, he said.

South Korea was one of the earliest countries to see a large-scale coronavirus outbreak, but the country has recorded 200 deaths and a falling new case tally since peaking at 1,189 on Feb 29. One of the world's most expansive testing programmes and a tech-driven approach to tracing infections has helped the country contain its epidemic without lockdowns or shuttering businesses.

South Korea reported 39 new cases on Thursday (April 9) for a total of 10,423.

Fear of re-infection in recovered patients is also growing in China, where the virus first emerged last December, after reports that some tested positive again - and even died from the disease - after supposedly recovering and leaving hospital. There's little understanding of why this happens, although some believe that the problem may lie in inconsistencies in test results.

Epidemiologists around the world are in a race to find out more about the virus that causes Covid-19. The pathogen's rapid global spread has recently seen the focus shift to patients who contract the virus but display few or atypical symptoms. South Korea has been at the forefront of tracking these cases, which are causing particular concern in China, where the epidemic is showing signs of coming under control.



https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/coronavirus-may-reactivate
-in-cured-patients-korean-health-authority-says


Reported by the Straits Time (Singapore) and S Korea

This tends to run along the same idea that maybe some people don't make robust antibodies and therefore don't fully inactivate the virus.

There is a precedent with chickenpox, which manages to hide out in the nerve cells, only to re-emerge later as shingles. Also HIV: antibodies don't confer protection. "Typhoid Mary" was an asymptomatic carrier of typhus.

I think one thing that I wonder about is ... is the second infection worse than, the same as, or better than, the first? If the second infection is milder than the first, there may be some benefit to running out and getting infected. If the second infection is worse than, or about the same as the first, then all you're doing is creating more disease-carriers.

Clearly, there's a lot about this virus we don't understand. In addition to being a retrovirus, it seems to have some HIV-like characteristics.

I would suggest that since this particular coronavirus is a retrovirus (RNA-based, as opposed to DNA-bsed) that antiretroviral therapy be looked at. I have seen reports (too many to link) that treating doctors are throwing everything and the kitchen sink (hodroxychorloquine, azithromycin, zinc, beta-interferon, plasma, and anti-retrovirals) at this thing. I hope that one of these will be successful.

As an aside, the reason (if you listened to the podcast) why they didn't test ICU patients in China is because "many" of them had been treated with plasma isolated from recovered patients.

What was the success rate of THAT? It seems like there is some information in there somewhere for doctors elsewhere.

Of course, it's always good to have multiple trials run at multiple centers ... reproducibility is the hallmark that tells you that you've got a firm grip on understanding this disease ... but a hint in the right direction would be helpful

No repeats of the "cold fusion" debacle, please.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Speaking of hodroxychorloquine and fake news...





I'm surprised nobody talked about this lady and her dead husband in the RWED.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:13 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

For a guy who has spent three years believing Putin has been influencing American elections, you're pretty fucking dumb about this right now.




You're the guy who didn't even know what retweet was - not very smart throwing around comments about intelligence right now.

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:20 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Speaking of hodroxychorloquine and fake news...
I'm surprised nobody talked about this lady and her dead husband in the RWED.



Talk about a nothing burger - dude, you are so desperate. She totally stoned him. Did you even listen to it??

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Actually, if you look at the data, I wonder whether antibodies (immunoglobulins) are the most effective way to clear the virus. If young people seem to do better but have fewer antibodies (at least to the spike proteins) and older people have more spike protein antibodies but don't fare as well, maybe other parts of the immune system (or antibodies to other parts of the virus) are more effective at inactivating it.

I don't know much about the immune system, other than there have got to be at least a dozen separate components that turn it on, and off (cytokines, antibodies/plasma cells, T cells, macrophages, interferons, steroids, calcineurin, etc) Every time I look itup, I bump into at least two other things I didn't know.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Speaking of hodroxychorloquine and fake news...
I'm surprised nobody talked about this lady and her dead husband in the RWED.



Talk about a nothing burger - dude, you are so desperate. She totally stoned him. Did you even listen to it??




She wasn't interested in the least in hearing or telling the truth.

That was a great video showing how uninterested your Legacy Media is in actually telling you the truth when they have an agenda to push.



And I'd love to hear how I'm the one desperate here. I'm not the one who went out and bought a second fridge and spends his days cowering in fear right now.

You're going to get it. If you're weak, you will die.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, April 9, 2020 3:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Actually, if you look at the data, I wonder whether antibodies (immunoglobulins) are the most effective way to clear the virus. If young people seem to do better but have fewer antibodies (at least to the spike proteins) and older people have more spike protein antibodies but don't fare as well, maybe other parts of the immune system (or antibodies to other parts of the virus) are more effective at inactivating it.

I don't know much about the immune system, other than there have got to be at least a dozen separate components that turn it on, and off (cytokines, antibodies/plasma cells, T cells, macrophages, interferons, steroids, calcineurin, etc) Every time I look it up, I bump into at least two other things I didn't know.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

I don't think ANYBODY really understands the immune system! If it was a complete body of knowledge we still wouldn't be struggling with cancers and bacteria and viruses and autoimmune diseases!

Anyway, I can believe that SARS-COV-2 sometimes gets reactivated. I can believe people sometimes get reinfected. And I can believe the tests are sometimes bunk! I think what's important epidemiologically is whether these people are infectious. They may be producing enough antibody to (minimally) target the virus for immune destruction or (maximally) neutralize it, and either one will help keep it from being infectious. But you can still detect the RNA of a virus that has antibodies attached to it, so RNA tests will still be positive.

Like so much about the virus, there are a lot of unknowns!

/ETA: that's why I think the pathway to treatments and vaccines may be more tortuous that people think./

SARS-COV-2 is what they call a 'positive sense RNA' virus. "DNA makes RNA and RNA makes protein." A positive sense RNA is used directly as a template to make proteins. "RNA makes protein." (A negative sense RNA is the complement to a positive sense RNA. So a negative sense RNA needs to be transcribed by enzymes into a positive sense RNA in order to create proteins. A retrovirus is an RNA virus that creates DNA from its RNA template, and then inserts its own DNA into the host genome.)


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Friday, April 10, 2020 3:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, I went shopping today at my usual two stores. (Yanno, GSTRING, to fill up the pantry, basement, numerous cabinets and cupboards and two freezers... that I don't have ) and it's always been an interesting point to see how many are wearing masks.

The first two weeks dear daughter and I went, we were the very fashion-forward two. By the third week, there were maybe one or two (or six, in the bigger store) aside from us. By the fourth week, about 30% in the small store and 50% in the bigger store were wearing masks, but none of the employees were.

Thus last time, the smaller store got a 97%, as far as I can tell. ALL of the employees were wearing masks, and nearly everyone else was, with the exception of three people (two men and a woman.)

The larger store got a 95%. All employees were wearing procedure masks, with the exception of one dood who obviously promised to wear a bandana and just as obviously decided to slip it down to his neck.

Many people were wearing handsewn cloth masks or procedure (paper) masks, a few were wearing bandanas, and some N95 respirators had found their way out into the populace.

The store was way more crowded than I feel comfortable with. I don't know if that's because it's a Friday (but who the heck is working a regular workweek anymore?) or bcause it was raining yesterday and people put off their Thursday shopping for Friday. Like I did.

Anyway, I think more people are wearing masks bc the CDC changed its tune. Can you imagine how many might have been wearing masks before, if the CDC hadn't screwed up the message for two months???

#WEAR A MASK.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Friday, April 10, 2020 3:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yeah ...

April 03, 2020 The CDC recommends all people wear masks outside the home.
April 03, 2020 NYC asks all people wear masks outside the home.
April 03, 2020 LACounty asks all people wear masks outside the home.

FWIW

April 07, 2020 The City of Los Angeles requires all people wear masks outside the home.

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Friday, April 10, 2020 5:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




Italy, new cases and new deaths.

Did you notice something funny about this chart? There is a roughly seven-day sinusoid in the numbers. Must be that coroners, labs etc don't work on weekends, or that the numbers don't get reported until Monday?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Friday, April 10, 2020 8:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Coronavirus infection may cause lasting damage throughout the body, doctors fear


By Melissa HealyStaff Writer
April 10, 2020
3:03 PM

For a world grappling with the new coronavirus, it’s becoming increasingly clear that even when the pandemic is over, it won’t really be over.

Now doctors are beginning to worry that for patients who have survived COVID-19, the same may be true.

For the sickest patients, infection with the new coronavirus is proving to be a full-body assault, causing damage well beyond the lungs. And even after patients who become severely ill have recovered and cleared the virus, physicians have begun seeing evidence of the infection’s lingering effects.

In a study posted this week, scientists in China examined the blood test results of 34 COVID-19 patients over the course of their hospitalization. In those who survived mild and severe disease alike, the researchers found that many of the biological measures had “failed to return to normal.”

Chief among the worrisome test results were readings that suggested these apparently recovered patients continued to have impaired liver function. That was the case even after two tests for the live virus had come back negative and the patients were cleared to be discharged.

At the same time, as cardiologists are contending with the immediate effects of COVID-19 on the heart, they’re asking how much of the damage could be long-lasting. In an early study of COVID-19 patients in China, heart failure was seen in nearly 12% of those who survived, including in some who had shown no signs of respiratory distress.

When lungs do a poor job of delivering oxygen to the body, the heart can come under severe stress and may emerge weaker. That’s concerning enough in an illness that typically causes breathing problems. But when even those without respiratory distress sustain injury to the heart, doctors have to wonder whether they have underestimated COVID-19’s ability to wreak lasting havoc.

“COVID-19 is not just a respiratory disorder,” said Dr. Harlan Krumholtz, a cardiologist at Yale University. “It can affect the heart, the liver, the kidneys, the brain, the endocrine system and the blood system.”

There are no long-term survivors of this wholly new disease: Even its first victims in China are little more than three months removed from their ordeal. And physicians have been too busy treating the acutely ill to closely monitor the progress of the roughly 370,000 people worldwide known to have recovered from COVID-19.

Still, doctors are worried that in its wake, some organs whose function has been knocked off kilter will not recover quickly, or completely. That could leave patients more vulnerable for months or years to come.

“I think there will be long-term sequelae,” said Yale cardiologist Dr. Joseph Brennan, using the medical term for a disease’s downstream effects.

“I don’t know that for real,” he cautioned. “But this disease is so overwhelming” that some of the recovered are likely to face ongoing health concerns, he said.

Another question that could take years to answer is whether the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 may lie dormant in the body for years and spring back later in different form.

It wouldn’t be the first virus to behave that way. After a chicken pox infection, for instance, the herpes virus that causes the illness hides quietly for decades and often emerges as the painful affliction shingles. The virus that causes hepatitis B can sow the seeds of liver cancer years later. And in the months after the West African Ebola epidemic subsided in 2016, the virus responsible for that illness was found to have taken up residence in the vitreous fluid of some of its victims’ eyes, causing blindness or vision impairment in 40% of those affected.

Given SARS-CoV-2’s affinity for lung tissue, doctors quickly suspected that some recovered COVID-19 patients would sustain lasting damage to their lungs. In infections involving the coronavirus that cause severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), about one-third of recovered patients had lung impairment after three years, but those symptoms had largely cleared 15 years later. And researchers found that one-third of patients who suffered Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) had scarring of the lungs — fibrosis — that was probably permanent.

In a mid-March review of a dozen COVID-19 patients discharged from a hospital in Hong Kong, two or three were described as having difficulty with activities they had done in the past.

Dr. Owen Tsang Tak-yin, director of infectious diseases at Princess Margaret Hospital in Hong Kong, told reporters that some patients “might have around a drop of 20 to 30% in lung function” after their recovery.

Citing the history of lasting lung damage in SARS and MERS patients, a team led by UCLA radiologist Melina Hosseiny is recommending that patients who have recovered from COVID-19 get follow-up lung scans “to evaluate long-term or permanent lung damage including fibrosis.”

As doctors try to assess organ damage after COVID-19 recovery, there’s a key complication: Patients with disorders that affect the heart, liver, blood and lungs face a higher risk of becoming very sick with COVID-19 in the first place. That makes it difficult to distinguish COVID-19 after-effects from the problems that made patients vulnerable to begin with — especially so early in the game.

Right now, “we’re all in the middle of it,” said Dr. Kim Williams, a cardiovascular disease specialist at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago. “We have much more information about what happens acutely, and we’re trying to manage that.”

What they do know is that when COVID-19 patients show symptoms of infection, the function of many organs is knocked off course. And when one organ begins to fail, others often follow.

Add to that chaos the force of inflammation, which flares in those with severe COVID-19. The result can do damage throughout the body, prying plaques and clots from the walls of blood vessels and causing strokes, heart attacks and venous embolisms.

Krumholtz, who organized a meeting of cardiologists to discuss COVID-19 this week, said the infection can cause damage to the heart and the sac that encases it. Some patients develop heart failure and/or arrhythmias during the disease’s acute phase.

Heart failure weakens the organ, though it can regain much of its strength with medications and lifestyle changes. Still, former COVID-19 patients can become lifelong cardiology patients.

Muddying this picture is another potential after-effect: blood abnormalities that make clots of all sorts more likely to form.

In a case report published this week in the New England Journal of Medicine, Chinese doctors described a patient with severe COVID-19, clots evident in several parts of his body, and immune proteins called antiphospholipid antibodies.

A hallmark of an autoimmune disease called antiphospholipid syndrome, these antibodies sometimes occur as a passing response to an infection. But sometimes they linger, causing dangerous blood clots in the legs, kidneys, lungs and brain. In pregnant women, antiphospholipid syndrome also can result in miscarriage and stillbirth.

Brennan said that in a new disease like COVID-19, the signposts that usually guide physicians in assessing a patient’s long-term prognosis are just not there yet. “Coagulopathy,” for instance, “usually rights itself,” he said.

“But this isn’t usual.”

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-infection
-can-do-lasting-damage-to-the-heart-liver

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Friday, April 10, 2020 11:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Yeah ...

April 03, 2020 The CDC recommends all people wear masks outside the home.
April 03, 2020 NYC asks all people wear masks outside the home.
April 03, 2020 LACounty asks all people wear masks outside the home.

FWIW

April 07, 2020 The City of Los Angeles requires all people wear masks outside the home.




Meanwhile....

April 10th, nobody in America can buy a mask.

lol


Doesn't matter. We're all going to get it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, April 10, 2020 11:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, I went shopping today at my usual two stores. (Yanno, GSTRING, to fill up the pantry, basement, numerous cabinets and cupboards and two freezers... that I don't have ) and it's always been an interesting point to see how many are wearing masks.

The first two weeks dear daughter and I went, we were the very fashion-forward two. By the third week, there were maybe one or two (or six, in the bigger store) aside from us. By the fourth week, about 30% in the small store and 50% in the bigger store were wearing masks, but none of the employees were.

Thus last time, the smaller store got a 97%, as far as I can tell. ALL of the employees were wearing masks, and nearly everyone else was, with the exception of three people (two men and a woman.)

The larger store got a 95%. All employees were wearing procedure masks, with the exception of one dood who obviously promised to wear a bandana and just as obviously decided to slip it down to his neck.

Many people were wearing handsewn cloth masks or procedure (paper) masks, a few were wearing bandanas, and some N95 respirators had found their way out into the populace.

The store was way more crowded than I feel comfortable with. I don't know if that's because it's a Friday (but who the heck is working a regular workweek anymore?) or bcause it was raining yesterday and people put off their Thursday shopping for Friday. Like I did.

Anyway, I think more people are wearing masks bc the CDC changed its tune. Can you imagine how many might have been wearing masks before, if the CDC hadn't screwed up the message for two months???

#WEAR A MASK.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME




Nobody is wearing masks here. Maybe 5% of customers when I shop, and zero percent of employees.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 3:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, related to SIX's non-update on the 25-year-old pharmacy tech (who SIX insists committed suicide) I did bring up Sweden as an example of a nation whose reporting we can trust that has decided to do nothing about Covid...

I decided to look them up on the worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

which has a sortable table (you can sort by nation, or # cases, or deaths per million, or on any of the columns that they present.) I chose deaths per million as the relevant stat to look at. Tiny San Marino is the highest, at 1000+, followed by Spain (334 as of today), Andorra, Italy, Belgium, France etc. Sweden is tied at 11th place with 86. Significantly higher than the other Nordic countries, but not bad for a nation determined to do "nothing".

So, we should follow that stat and see if it zooms up, if Sweden bubbles up to near the top of the list, or if their ranking stays pretty constant relative to nations that are doing a lot more.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 3:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WE'RE #1! (Again)

We broke the 2000 deaths/day threshhold.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


The "Nation State" of California really, REALLY wants to separate from the rest of the US.

I propose that New York do so as well.

More than 1/3 of the deaths in the entire country are in New York with a vast majority of those being in the city itself.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 2:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well this is encouraging. New cases in the US have stabilized out in the 30,000 - 35,000 per day range in the last week. Let's see if it holds.

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I've mentioned Sweden as the bellweather nation for the "do nothing" approach, and I'm going to bring it up here again for the sake of continuity and completeness.

There were other "do nothing" nations, most recently Belarus, which had early on decided to keep the economy going but is now quietly changing its approach and asking Russia for help. Brazil continues its "do nothing" policy. India, in reality, can do nothing, altho to government virtue-signals its lockdown.

Neither Modi (India) nor Bolsanaro (Brazil) have the capacity to even know what's going on in their infamous slums/favelas. People could be keeling over at home from Covid, but until bodies start piling up in the streets, like in Ecuador, nobody will be the wiser. The total number of deaths will probably be drastically under-reported, not only because the governments have an interest in doing so, but their medical infrastructure is so woefully underpowered compared to the size of the population it would be a Herculean task just to come up with a decent tally.

In those other threads I mentioned that we can rely on Sweden's reporting, partly because Sweden has a well-developed medical and reporting system.

But then I remembered ... Sweden notoriously under-reported crimes by ME migrants, and made it illegal to even mention the ethnicity of the criminals. So Sweden isn't necessarily transparent either. Altho they have the capability for proper reporting, their history with their migrant problem shows they don't mind bending the truth ... alot ... in favor of government policy.

So, I would use their stats with caution, and be on the lookout for things like "excess deaths", not necessarily related to Covid-19.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well this is encouraging. New cases in the US have stabilized out in the 30,000 - 35,000 per day range in the last week. Let's see if it holds.

Since new deaths new lag cases by four(?) weeks, we should expect to see a corresponding stabilization in new deaths later.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've mentioned Sweden as the bellweather nation for the "do nothing" approach, and I'm going to bring it up here again for the sake of continuity and completeness.

There were other "do nothing" nations, most recently Belarus, which had early on decided to keep the economy going but is now quietly changing its approach and asking Russia for help. Brazil continues its "do nothing" policy. India, in reality, can do nothing, altho to government virtue-signals its lockdown.

Neither Modi (India) nor Bolsanaro (Brazil) have the capacity to even know what's going on in their infamous slums/favelas. People could be keeling over at home from Covid, but until bodies start piling up in the streets, like in Ecuador, nobody will be the wiser. The total number of deaths will probably be drastically under-reported, not only because the governments have an interest in doing so, but their medical infrastructure is so woefully underpowered compared to the size of the population it would be a Herculean task just to come up with a decent tally.

In those other threads I mentioned that we can rely on Sweden's reporting, partly because Sweden has a well-developed medical and reporting system.

But then I remembered ... Sweden notoriously under-reported crimes by ME migrants, and made it illegal to even mention the ethnicity of the criminals. So Sweden isn't necessarily transparent either. Altho they have the capability for proper reporting, their history with their migrant problem shows they don't mind bending the truth ... alot ... in favor of government policy.

So, I would use their stats with caution, and be on the lookout for things like "excess deaths", not necessarily related to Covid-19.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

I looked at the log curve(s) for Sweden at http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ . While other countries are bending their (log) curves, Sweden's is linear, which means the virus is spreading logarithmically. At some point it adds up! and no matter how you fudge the numbers (unless of course you're making them up out of thin air), later if not sooner, the results'll be obvious.

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Another indication of how well healthy young (mostly) males fare with SARS-Cov2 would be the military.

Quote:

The Military's Coronavirus Cases: The Latest Rundown

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/03/16/militarys-coronavirus-c
ases-latest-rundown.html


Quote:

Lawmakers call for investigation into aircraft carrier captain's firing
Democrats in both chambers of Congress are calling for an investigation into the Navy’s firing of an aircraft carrier commander who had pleaded for help with a coronavirus outbreak on his ship.


https://thehill.com/policy/defense/491059-lawmakers-call-for-investiga
tion-into-aircraft-carrier-captains-firing


Quote:

Coronavirus cases on USS Roosevelt spike to 550

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-cases-on-uss-roosevelt-s
pike-to-550/ar-BB12usOA




Quote:

Top Pentagon Generals Warn Enemies Not to Attack
April 10
Hit by virus, Pentagon warns enemies: don't test us
US Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley warns adversaries to not test US military readiness in the coronavirus pandemic
US Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley warns adversaries to not test US military readiness in the coronavirus pandemic (AFP Photo/Mandel NGAN)

Washington (AFP) - With an aircraft carrier forced into port and staff at bases handling nuclear missiles hit by COVID-19, the US military wants rivals to understand: don't test us, we have not been weakened.

Statement after statement from the Pentagon has sought to deliver that message amid questions this week over whether the US fighting force can maintain full readiness, with cases among service members now at 2,031.

"We're still capable and we're still ready no matter what the threat," Joint Chiefs Chairman General Mark Milley said Thursday.


https://news.yahoo.com/hit-virus-pentagon-warns-enemies-dont-test-us-1
65113632.html


If you include the very angry memo from Lt Gnl Robert P White to Pompeo warning him against igniting a war against Iraqi PMUs it seems the military is still barking, but also huddling.

So military deaths would be another point to track, assuming we would ever hear the news.

*****

In order to understand the truth, one must be able to actively pursue facts (ie do research) and also discount or somehow mitigate the weaknesses or bias of those reporting those facts.

Cui bono?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


BTW, just my opinion only, but the keys to reopening the economy will be 1) masks, 2) treatments, 3) vaccines - in that order of availability. But no one in the upper echelons will propose masks.

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 5:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
BTW, just my opinion only, but the keys to reopening the economy will be 1) masks, 2) treatments, 3) vaccines - in that order of availability. But no one in the upper echelons will propose masks.



Masks and hand-sanitizers. Do you think surgical masks would be sufficient? I personally think that the "at risk" population should have N95s and everyone else can use surgical masks.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 5:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:



Cui bono?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

Nobody benefits from a global pandemic, as far as I can tell. Though the countries that will be hurt the worst are those without economic resources (and that also have an inability to borrow like Greece, Brazil, or Iran). But launching a global pandemic that turns around to bite even you in the ass seems an awfully self-destructive way to disadvantage one country or two that might be hurt more.

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 5:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
BTW, just my opinion only, but the keys to reopening the economy will be 1) masks, 2) treatments, 3) vaccines - in that order of availability. But no one in the upper echelons will propose masks.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Masks and hand-sanitizers. Do you think surgical masks would be sufficient? I personally think that the "at risk" population should have N95s and everyone else can use surgical masks.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

I say N95 (or N100) for all! !! There will always be a certain portion of the population where a respirator just isn't going to work. Either because they have an out-of-the-norm face and/ or nose shape, or because they don't don it, fit it, and test it properly. For them the respirators will act like a procedure mask. But for those people who wear a respirator correctly, it'll add an extra margin of protection. And population-wide, over time, that adds up.

ETA - and respirators (plus hand sanitizers) are literally the least intrusive, fastest, cheapest, and easiest thing to do. What's not to like about that?

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:34 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But then I remembered ... Sweden notoriously under-reported crimes by ME migrants, and made it illegal to even mention the ethnicity of the criminals. So Sweden isn't necessarily transparent either. Altho they have the capability for proper reporting, their history with their migrant problem shows they don't mind bending the truth ... alot ... in favor of government policy.



Did you really remember, or did you just read my reply to you in the thread you created on this topic "for me".

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But then I remembered ... Sweden notoriously under-reported crimes by ME migrants, and made it illegal to even mention the ethnicity of the criminals. So Sweden isn't necessarily transparent either. Altho they have the capability for proper reporting, their history with their migrant problem shows they don't mind bending the truth ... alot ... in favor of government policy.



Did you really remember, or did you just read my reply to you in the thread you created on this topic "for me".

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Neither. I was listening to The Duran on the topic

and they kind of brought it up

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#STAYTHEFUCKHOME

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 11:19 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


People were actually jailed in Sweden for trying to report on it.

Our media might suck here, but at least we have free speech.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 11, 2020 11:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Report on what?


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Sunday, April 12, 2020 12:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Report on what?




Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But then I remembered ... Sweden notoriously under-reported crimes by ME migrants, and made it illegal to even mention the ethnicity of the criminals. So Sweden isn't necessarily transparent either. Altho they have the capability for proper reporting, their history with their migrant problem shows they don't mind bending the truth ... alot ... in favor of government policy.





Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 12, 2020 12:55 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, that. I thought the topic was COIVD-19.

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Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


The topic is whatever I want it to be.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:50 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yeah, but if you don't tell people what topic it is you're posting about, you're an idiot.

MEANWHILE, I noticed that besides being incoherent, as usual you provided no links.

Whatever.

Babble to yourself all you want.

Putting you on ignore.

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