REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, June 1, 2020 18:10
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 21621
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Sunday, February 2, 2020 6:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Styx has over 400,000 subscribers, and by many metrics he has more views than a lot of talking heads on Cable Fake News Networks. He also has a large audience in the EU as well as other places such as Brazil and Venesuela and is on many other platforms outside of YouTube in the eventuality that YouTube removes him and censors him.


Tim Pool is afraid of YouTube and has suspiciously stopped reporting on the Coronavirus. He is beholden to them for the ad revenue. Styx isn't either, and he puts out at least one video about it with updates every single day.

He's not pulling this information out of his ass. He never does that. So he's getting it from somewhere. You're looking in the wrong places.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

As for Styx - basically, you're saying that just because there's ONE GUY on youtube, who had a max of 130,000 (not necessarily unique) views TOTAL on any one video, who may or may NOT have mentioned the protein insertions ... the protein insertions are being covered by 'the media'.

Well, let me reply with quote, because that's one for the ages.

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Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, I'm reposting this because it was put out by The Lancet, the premier medical journal out of England.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)302
60-9/fulltext


Interpretation
Given that 2019-nCoV is no longer contained within Wuhan, other major Chinese cities are probably sustaining localised outbreaks. Large cities overseas with close transport links to China (I'd say Los Angeles fits that category) could also become outbreak epicentres, unless substantial public health interventions at both the population and personal levels are implemented immediately. Independent self-sustaining outbreaks in major cities globally could become inevitable because of substantial exportation of presymptomatic cases and in the absence of large-scale public health interventions. Preparedness plans and mitigation interventions should be readied for quick deployment globally.



IMO this is a situation of 'wait and see'. No one can predict the outcome, with, again IMO, the biggest variable being the number of unidentified cases in the general population. But if 2019-nCoV should get a toehold, the second variable would be if there's brisk and maybe even draconian measures to stop the spread.

I was right when WAY back in the thread I called the spread 'explosive'. And if the findings of novel (potentially HIV-related) inserts that 'recognize' and attach to human cells are reproduced, that would go a long way to explaining why. The virus was built for transmission among people.

I think US authorities will have the necessary data in 2 or 3 weeks about which way this is going. I'm not confident we will. But if there's "sustaining localised outbreaks" it'll be obvious to localised doctors and hospitals shortly thereafter, and to the rest of the localised people within a few weeks of that, because they'll be noticing a lot of sick people around.

IN THE MEANTIME, I have thought about personal protective measures. So, this is my PERSONAL opinion only, and not medical advice. Obviously if you're in the same household as someone who's sick, you need to be extremely careful - wear masks, gloves, use disposable aprons, and wash or sanitize your hands frequently. Make sure they see a doctor for testing, and, if needed, isolation and treatment. And if you get sick, see a doctor for testing and, if needed, isolation and treatment. But in general, when you're just out and about, I believe the vital link in the infection chain is 'contaminated hands to face' actions. So I think getting hand sanitizer - at least 60% alcohol (either ethanol or IPA) - and keeping one in your car and one in your house is a good idea. You've been touching things the whole time, and then you touched your keys to get into your car. When you get back into your car, sanitize your hands and keys. Rub your hands and use enough so that your hands stay wet at least a minute (which is the recommendation for bacteria). When you get back to your house, sanitize your hands again, or wash them. You may have touched the car door handle on your way out of the car, or other potentially contaminated surfaces. As for masks, I personally don't think they carry a whole lot of extra protection (minimal, at best) EXCEPT - they eliminate hand-to-nose and hand-to-mouth actions, and they might remind you to avoid hand-to-eye actions, at least until you've sanitized or washed your hands.

Is any of this 100%? No, of course not!

That's the best I can come up with given the information I've found at this time. Your mileage may vary.


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Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


My bad. I didn't know you were specifying "insertions". Had to read the TL;DR you posted from earlier to know what an insertion even means. I thought you were saying that they were trying to hide any new news about the Coronavirus from the public in general.


Again though, I'm not going to act surprised about this. I used to be the wackjob conspiracy theorist in my group and family, and it literally drove me insane there for a while. And it turns out almost everything I was saying has been proven right over the years.

But here's the thing. Two things, really...

1. The sun still rises every day, and my life isn't all that bad, 20 years later.

2. All of those people who didn't give a shit before and said I was crazy still don't give a shit now when it's all come out as true. They've taken it all one step further and allowed the spying devices that weren't even around back then into their homes willingly, knowing full well they're being spied on, and they still don't give a shit.



At the end of the day, I'm the asshole.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:34 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
My bad. I didn't know you were specifying "insertions".

I don't know Jack - how high can you count? How MANY times in how MANY posts did you need to see it to figure it out? YOU EVEN QUOTED ME when I specifically mentioned 'insertions'.
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-contains-hiv-insert
ions-stoking-fears-over-artificially-created-bioweapon


Now, a respected epidemiologist who recently caught flack for claiming in a twitter threat that the virus appeared to be much more contagious than initially believed is pointing out irregularities in the virus's genome that suggests it might have been genetically engineered for the purposes of a weapon, and not just any weapon but the deadliest one of all.

In "Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag", Indian researchers are baffled by segments of the virus's RNA that have no relation to other coronaviruses like SARS, and instead appear to be closer to HIV. The virus even responds to treatment by HIV medications.

https: //zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/HIV%20corona.jpg

We then translated the aligned genome and found that these inserts are present in all Wuhan 2019-nCoV viruses except the 2019-nCoV virus of Bat as a host. ... Surprisingly, each of the four inserts aligned with short segments of the Human immunodeficiency Virus-1 (HIV-1) proteins.

https: //zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/2019%20nCoV%20vs%20HIV.jpg

The insert 1 (6 amino acid residues) and insert 2 (6 amino acid residues) in the spike glycoprotein of 2019-nCoV are 100% identical to the residues mapped to HIV-1 gp120. The insert 3 (12 amino acid residues) in 2019- nCoV maps to HIV-1 gp120 with gaps [see Table 1]. The insert 4 (8 amino acid residues) maps to HIV-1 Gag with gaps.

To our surprise, these sequence insertions were not only absent in S protein of SARS but were also not observed in any other member of the Coronaviridae family (Supplementary figure). This is startling as it is quite unlikely for a virus to have acquired such unique insertions naturally in a short duration of time.

A good recap of the findings was provided by Dr. Feigl-Ding, who started his explanatory thread by pointing out that the transmission rate outside China has surpassed the rate inside China.

A graph is worth a thousand letters. #coronavirus. Source: NYTimes https://t.co/M1K9e6Kgz6 pic.twitter.com/evgM2UHf3U
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
2) Whoa- the rate of increase ***outside of China*** is steeper than inside of China or Wuhan! Figure 1A. From: @TheLancet “Nowcasting and forecasting the potential domestic and international spread of 2019-nCoV https://t.co/SwhxWGeoTj”) pic.twitter.com/u1s4SLEzMv
3) “An estimated 75815 individuals have been infected in Wuhan” —> this is substantially higher than current reports or ~10k reports by China ???? media. (75k estimate from above Lancet article)
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
4) ...”On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become a global epidemic in the absence of mitigation...substantial, even draconian measures that limit population mobility should be seriously and immediately considered in affected areas...” ??
...
9. BOTTOMLINE: 1) Seafood market not the source. 2) This RNA #coronavirus mutates really fast. 3) ?? has unusual middle segment never seen before in any coronavirus. 4) Not from recent mixing. 5) That mystery middle segment encodes protein responsible for entry into host cells.
— Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) January 31, 2020
...

It may be time to jam the exit doors. Not talking about tooth self-extraction, but hunkering down might be a good idea.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Why aren't the insertions into the coronavirus in the news?

First of all the article linked below complains that 'mis'information about coronavirus is being scrubbed from social media. Well, as people here should know by now, I'm not on any social media at all because I see no reason to give my privacy away for the dubious benefit of artificially 'connecting' with artificial entities and government propaganda. So when the author complains that social media is scrubbing information it disagrees with in favor of officialdom, narrative, and orthodoxy I do kind of roll my eyes a bit. Who in hell goes to social media for information?

But when the author states that GOOGLE is also being the Ministry of Truth, it's more concerning. So I went to duckduckgo, which is google without the noxious tracking, and typed in 2019-ncov hiv insertions. I got lots of 'conspiracy site' links and one pretty far down the page from bioRxiv. BioRxiv is the preprint server on which the original paper is found. When I clicked on the 'news' subheading, I got zero results. I mean that literally. Google seems to think that there is literally no news about the topic.

So I went to gibiru which is a modified google-type search engine and did another search. I got lots of credible results, the very first one being the bioRxiv link. (btw gibiru doesn't have sub-heads like 'news'. WYSIWYG.)

Getting back to the actual results, as I mentioned, the original paper was found on bioRxiv. And what is bioRxiv? "bioRxiv is an open access preprint repository for the biological sciences co-founded by John Inglis and Richard Sever in November 2013. It is hosted by the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. As preprints, papers hosted on bioRxiv are not peer-reviewed, but undergo basic screening and checked against plagiarism." So this isn't some fly-by-night operation. And here's its link https://www.biorxiv.org/

And how did I originally get to the paper on bioRxiv? Well, ZH has a great reputation for posting links to original sources. And in its original story about this, they posted the link. Here is the link it posted https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.30.927871v1.full.pdf . You can read the paper at your leisure.

So google is scrubbing this from its search engine, and literally results(verb) that there is no news about it.

Even more so, this isn't being covered by the media at all. Searching duckduckgo under individual media names, like abc, nbc, fox, new york times, washington post etc results in zero links.

AND back one more time to the paper, linked above. Is it credible? One person - not a researcher in the field, but a claimed professional with interest - disputes it (for reasons I find unconvincing), writing to what appears to be a prepper blog. But here is the link https://theprepared.com/blog/no-the-2019-ncov-genome-doesnt-actually-s
eem-engineered-from-hiv
/

In any case, here is the article that goes into detail about what information is being scrubbed out of social media and google, (and the news), and scrubbed from your view:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/coronavirus-contains-hiv- insertions -stoking-fears-over-artificially-created-bioweapon
Quote:

(short quote as an example) Kang-Xing Jin, Facebook’s head of health, wrote:
Our global network of third-party fact-checkers are continuing their work reviewing content and debunking false claims that are spreading related to the coronavirus. When they rate information as false, we limit its spread on Facebook and Instagram and show people accurate information from these partners. We also send notifications to people who already shared or are trying to share this content to alert them that it’s been fact-checked.

We will also start to remove content with false claims or conspiracy theories that have been flagged by leading global health organizations and local health authorities that could cause harm to people who believe them. We are doing this as an extension of our existing policies to remove content that could cause physical harm. We’re focusing on claims that are designed to discourage treatment or taking appropriate precautions. This includes claims related to false cures or prevention methods — like drinking bleach cures the coronavirus — or claims that create confusion about health resources that are available. We will also block or restrict hashtags used to spread misinformation on Instagram, and are conducting proactive sweeps to find and remove as much of this content as we can. (source)



The end result is, while people claim that that kind of media control can't happen here - it already has.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Not in this case. Even alternative media like social media is being scrubbed of any mention of the insertions into the virus. Facebook, youtube, instagram, twitter and so forth are actively being scrubbed. Google is actively suppressing results.

The whole idea that you can zombify people by simply not reporting the news was tried first, in my opinion, when protests were 'kettled'. Out of sight, out of mind. It was done on a large scale during Katrina. Even as the crisis was still unfolding, it was simply not being reported. Fukushima is another example.

Maybe I need to focus less on this and more on "what has disappeared from the news / what's not being reported". Perhaps a few dozen examples of MAJOR news that gets quietly erased will help you understand how thoroughly tptb have your information controlled.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well, obviously I disagree. The insertions into the coronavirus - that appear entirely unnatural, and designed to maximize infectivity (transmission) - are a big story. They tell us something unique and disturbing about the virus itself. They also tell us something important about the world we live in, and the things that are being done in secret. And they tell us about our government and its response to coronavirus, which is to employ just as much secrecy as the Chinese.

And the fact that the Chinese are building a second 'instant' coronavirus hospital should also tell us something disturbing about the virus, btw.

You know, should tshtf there will for sure be panic here in the US, no matter how much secrecy was employed, or how much anodyne was spread around ahead of time.

And there will be far more than inconvenience at the grocery store as the medical system is overwhelmed.

I can't see how less information improves people's lives, though I can see how it makes things easier for the government.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I used several different search engines but didn't find any major news sources listed.

I went to the German online version of Der Spiegle, and the French online versions of Paris Match and AFP and didn't find anything. Didn't find anything in the English online version of Xinhua. The English online version of Al Jazeera has a lot of news about coronavirus, but they only mention that ZH was banned from twitter, that's as close as anyone gets to the topic of insertions.

So - not finding it in those places, either.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Jack - THAT WASN'T WHAT I POSTED ABOUT. So just stop being an asshole.

I POSTED ABOUT THE CORONAVIRUS INSERTIONS.

Jeeze. Get a grip. Or at least a clue.




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Monday, February 3, 2020 1:14 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Don't be a bitch. We've already got Nilbog. We don't need two bitches here.

If you want to talk about biology, go find a biology forum. To the rest of us, "insertions" could mean a lot of other much more mundane things.


I already explained myself. If you're still triggered, there's nothing I can do about that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 1:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In any case - Jack, we were talking about entirely different things. I was talking about the 4 HIV-like protein insertions into the coronavirus. The reason I highlighted it is because it puts the virus, and more generically 'how our world works', into an entirely new light.

I do have a personal interest though. Here here in SoCal - where we get every darn thing going around the globe due to our extensive air connections - it pays for me specifically to be cautious about catching anything else this year, given that I'm still wheezing and bubbling in my lungs, and coughing and having a hard time breathing from time to time, after having had 'only' influenza B/ Victoria many weeks ago. But I'm not scared of this coronavirus, and I'm pretty sure I don't need to be talked off the ledge with dismissive pablum.

I think I've been extremely clear that I have found this kind of stuff interesting for literally as long as I can remember. That's why I post.

I've also been extremely cautious about my predictions for how this is going to go - ie I don't have any, a point I've reiterated many times. It's not like I'm trying to stampede anyone into a panic with doomsday soothsaying.

I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, and try to address what I post, without making extraneous assumptions about what I mean.


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Monday, February 3, 2020 2:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


That's fine. I shouldn't say "if you want to talk about biology, go find a biology forum."

I should have said "if you want to talk about biology and expect anybody to understand what you're talking about, go find a biology forum."

I'm not dumb, but I have very little understanding or attention span for things that I'm not in the least bit interested in. I'm not dismissing your interest in it. Like I said, I misread what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the media was burying the whole Coronavirus story and scrubbing that from the internet.


And if a government is breeding super viruses, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. But I'm not going to worry about it because there ain't a damn thing I can do about it if they are.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 3:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It seems to me, KIKI, that this whole concept of "insertions" should be easily proved or disproved. There was one team than said they found them. Well, they're either there, or they're not. They're either part of the "host cell recognition and docking" mechanisms, or they're not.

Where are the other virologists to either replicate or dispute the findings?

Because IF the insertions are there, and IF they're unprecedented to coronaviruses, and IF they have a function in the virus and increase infectivity, THEN that should tell people an awful lot about what governments do in secret. And when I say that "they have no moral or ethical boundaries to cross" I would have to expand the scope of my imagination to encompass that.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, February 3, 2020 4:21 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That's fine. I shouldn't say "if you want to talk about biology, go find a biology forum."

I should have said "if you want to talk about biology and expect anybody to understand what you're talking about, go find a biology forum."

I'm not dumb, but I have very little understanding or attention span for things that I'm not in the least bit interested in. I'm not dismissing your interest in it. Like I said, I misread what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the media was burying the whole Coronavirus story and scrubbing that from the internet.


And if a government is breeding super viruses, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. But I'm not going to worry about it because there ain't a damn thing I can do about it if they are.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

Jack, I hear ya. And if there's ever any news about computers that you want to post about ... well, we'll switch places!

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Monday, February 3, 2020 4:24 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me, KIKI, that this whole concept of "insertions" should be easily proved or disproved. There was one team than said they found them. Well, they're either there, or they're not. They're either part of the "host cell recognition and docking" mechanisms, or they're not.

Where are the other virologists to either replicate or dispute the findings?

Because IF the insertions are there, and IF they're unprecedented to coronaviruses, and IF they have a function in the virus and increase infectivity, THEN that should tell people an awful lot about what governments do in secret. And when I say that "they have no moral or ethical boundaries to cross" I would have to expand the scope of my imagination to encompass that.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

The linked paper claims that other labs found 3 of 4, but that they also looked at less protein.

I would have expected this to be a hot topic - in the news, on the inet, in scientific circles. The silence is unexpected.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 4:42 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


But just as a bit of humor, I was talking with someone who also has a big interest in these kinds of things. And she said to the effect - I bet the people at Fort Detrick (USAMRIID - U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, used to be a bio-weapons lab) already know about this and are pissed off that somebody else is getting all the glory because their own work is classified.

Anyway, a funny take on things.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 12:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That's fine. I shouldn't say "if you want to talk about biology, go find a biology forum."

I should have said "if you want to talk about biology and expect anybody to understand what you're talking about, go find a biology forum."

I'm not dumb, but I have very little understanding or attention span for things that I'm not in the least bit interested in. I'm not dismissing your interest in it. Like I said, I misread what you were saying. I thought you were saying that the media was burying the whole Coronavirus story and scrubbing that from the internet.


And if a government is breeding super viruses, it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit. But I'm not going to worry about it because there ain't a damn thing I can do about it if they are.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

Jack, I hear ya. And if there's ever any news about computers that you want to post about ... well, we'll switch places!




That's cool. No worries.

The only reason I post about this virus thing at all is because I don't think it's healthy to obsess over it. If you don't feel you're doing that, great.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 12:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


By the by....

https://www.theweek.in/news/sci-tech/2020/02/01/research-paper-by-indi
an-scientists-on-coronavirus-fuels-bioweapon-theories.html



I know this article exists because of somebody I watch on YouTube. I won't bother sharing the video because although I find them entertaining on certain topics, their content is usually very subjective and not worth much.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 1:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


According to ZEROHEDGE (which has been banned from Twitter btw)
Quote:

Late last night, while most of America was watching the Superbowl, the New York Times puablished a scathing story recounting what it's like on the ground in Wuhan right now. The truth is that all of the warnings of alleged 'conspiracy theorist' have more or less turned out to be correct. Supply shortages are still making it impossible for China to diagnose every case of the virus.

Ms. An, 67, needed an official diagnosis from a hospital to qualify for treatment, but the one she and her son raced to last week had no space, even to test her. The next hospital they were referred to here in Wuhan, the city of 11 million people at the center of the outbreak, was full, too, they said. They finally got an intravenous drip for Ms. An’s fever, but that was all.

Since then, Ms. An has quarantined herself at home. She and her son eat separately, wear masks at home and are constantly disinfecting their apartment. Ms. An’s health is declining rapidly, and even keeping water down is a struggle.

"I can’t let my mom die at home," said her son, He Jun. "Every day I want to cry, but when I cry there are no tears. There is no hope."


Chilling stuff. And once again, doctors and health-care workers are leveraging their newfound immunity to shed a light on the government's brutality.

Last month, the government put Wuhan in a virtual lockdown, sealing off the city and banning most public transportation and private cars from its streets in a desperate effort to contain the outbreak. Now, many residents say it is nearly impossible to get the health care they need to treat - or even diagnose - the coronavirus.

Expressing exasperation, doctors say there is a shortage of testing kits and other medical supplies, and it is not clear why more are not available. The ban on transportation means some residents have to walk for hours to get to hospitals - if they are well enough to make the journey. Layers of bureaucracy stand between residents and help. And the long lines outside hospitals for testing and treatment suggest that the outbreak is spreading far beyond the official count of cases.


For many sickened residents, their best hope is the new coronavirus hospital that has just been finished (a second hospital is also being built).

Those who do make it to the hospital say they are squeezed together for hours in waiting rooms, where infections are easily spread. But the shortages have meant that many are ultimately turned away and sent home to self-quarantine, potentially compounding the outbreak by exposing their families.

Many doctors and residents are putting their hopes on the two new coronavirus hospitals that China has been racing to build in Wuhan in just a matter of days. One of them spans about eight acres, has 1,000 beds and is scheduled to open on Monday. The government says 1,400 military medical workers will be deployed to work there, potentially helping with the shortage of health professionals on hand to combat the outbreak.


Ironically, the hospital, which was supposed to open on Monday, is still undergoing 'finishing touches', and when masses of sick patients showed up at the gates on Monday morning, construction workers were forced to turn them away.

More than a week into the quarantine/lockdown, millions of residents fear the virus has spread much further than the government realizes.

On Sunday, city officials announced plans to set up quarantine stations around Wuhan for people with symptoms of pneumonia and close contacts among coronavirus patients. But just over a week into the lockdown, many residents believe the virus has already spread much further than the official numbers suggest.

"The situation that we’ve seen is much worse than what has been officially reported," Long Jian, 32, said outside a hospital where his elderly father was being treated. Mr. Long said his father had to go to six hospitals and wait seven days before he could even be tested for the coronavirus.

MORE AT https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/i-cant-let-my-mom-die-home-desp
erate-patients-swarm-wuhan-hospital-hong-kong-closes


Yanno, the previous time I got sick (with a bad cold, not a flu) I got it at a doctor's office.

Wouldn't it make more sense to send out teams of doctors and nurses and volunteers to test and treat people in their own homes? How much training does it take to take tempertures and swab samples?? It seems like something of a clusterfuck to jam people together, some of who are sick with nocoronavirus-2019 and some of who aren't. Seems like a PERFECT way to spread disease, especially if people wind up going from hospital to hospital, encountering hundreds of people along the way!

Test and treat at home, save hospitals for people who really need hospital-level care.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, February 3, 2020 1:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


To be fair, zerohedge was banned from Twitter for doxxing somebody.

I'm the last person in the world to stand up for corporate censorship, but you can't pick and choose when the rules apply and protecting people from being doxxed online is a good thing. This is a legitimate argument against the Lefties in Twitter who pick and choose when to apply their rules. To try to defend Zerohedge after doing what they let antifa wackjobs get away with on the regular muddies the water.

Zerohedge should have been more careful.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 2:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


As I understand it, ZH published the name of a Chinese researcher whose research and associated name was already public knowledge. Is that wrong? I mean, I'm entirely against doxxing so if that's what they did, then they should have been banned!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, February 3, 2020 2:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Jack, If I'm obsessive over this, it's been a more than 6 decade obsession!

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Monday, February 3, 2020 2:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
An’s health is declining rapidly, and even keeping water down is a struggle.

Another symptom is GI, and some people only have GI symptoms. And at least 1 child had no symptoms at all.
Quote:

... doctors say there is a shortage of testing kits and other medical supplies, and it is not clear why more are not available.
Authorities have written Wuhan off as being fixable?
Quote:

Many doctors and residents are putting their hopes on the two new coronavirus hospitals that China has been racing to build in Wuhan in just a matter of days. One of them spans about eight acres, has 1,000 beds and is scheduled to open on Monday. The government says 1,400 military medical workers will be deployed to work there, potentially helping with the shortage of health professionals on hand to combat the outbreak.
1,000 beds is not enough when you have tens of thousands who are ill.
Quote:

More than a week into the quarantine/lockdown, millions of residents fear the virus has spread much further than the government realizes.
Common, on the ground observation. Most USers I think would go to their 'smartphones', look for 'news', and shrug off whatever it is they see with their own eyes if the 'smartphone' didn't agree.

China is going to take a YUGE international economic ding from this! (I believe that's ultimately what they care about.) Countries are banning Chinese international travel, eta: tourism has cratered, companies with huge exposure in China like Apple, are shuttering out of caution and that's a big price to pay ... but China has to worry about its own production disruption due to illness, as well as the perceived risk, realistic or not, of Chinese goods.
Quote:

Yanno, the previous time I got sick (with a bad cold, not a flu) I got it at a doctor's office.

Wouldn't it make more sense to send out teams of doctors and nurses and volunteers to test and treat people in their own homes? How much training does it take to take tempertures and swab samples?? It seems like something of a clusterfuck to jam people together, some of who are sick with nocoronavirus-2019 and some of who aren't. Seems like a PERFECT way to spread disease, especially if people wind up going from hospital to hospital, encountering hundreds of people along the way!

Test and treat at home, save hospitals for people who really need hospital-level care.

Well ... the reason hospitals exist is economies of scale. Also, in your plan, they need to teach the visitors effective isolation/ decontamination procedures so they're not laboriously and with great human resources carrying the virus from house to house.

But yes, it seems like a good use of the military.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 3:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


U.S. CDC CONFIRMS 11 CONFIRMED CORONAVIRUS CASES IN UNITED STATES - TELEBRIEFING

More ominously, the CDC said that the new Coronavirus case is close contact of other California case, and was spread person-to-person.

CDC: PREPARING AS IF CORONAVIRUS WERE THE NEXT PANDEMIC



To be sure, this is from ZH where the world is always on the brink of ending, it provided no links, and I haven't followed up on this.






https://www.thedailybeast.com/cdc-coronavirus-boss-nancy-messonnier-ca
lls-spread-unprecedented-as-cases-surge-in-us-and-abroad

Federal officials confirmed the number of U.S. cases of 2019 novel coronavirus had reached 11 on Monday, describing the increasingly deadly global crisis as “explosive” and “unprecedented,” and suggesting it amounted to a potential pandemic.
California has now become a domestic epicenter of infections, with two infections confirmed in Santa Clara County, in the Bay Area; two more in San Benito County, near Monterey, where a man appeared to infect his wife; and, previously, one case each in Orange County and Los Angeles County, in Southern California.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/mayo-clinic-dr-gregory-poland-coronavi
rus-basically-at-a-pandemic.html

Mayo Clinic doctor: Coronavirus is ‘basically at a pandemic now’ and should be treated as such
“We’re basically at a pandemic now,” said Poland, regarding the deadly virus, which has currently been labeled as an epidemic.
The next few weeks will be crucial in how the coronavirus affects the U.S., said former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb. “If we don’t start to see outbreaks in the next two or three weeks, we might have dodged a bullet,” said Gottlieb.


https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-pandemic-what-that-m
eans-epidemic-difference-2020-2

Scientists say the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak could soon be declared a pandemic. Here's what that means.


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Monday, February 3, 2020 4:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
As I understand it, ZH published the name of a Chinese researcher whose research and associated name was already public knowledge. Is that wrong? I mean, I'm entirely against doxxing so if that's what they did, then they should have been banned!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!




You should watch the Joe Rogan podcast where he has Jack Dorsey, a high ranking female in the corporation who's name I can't recall right now and Tim Pool all together. She makes a fairly convincing case for this policy, and how it applies to other countries outside of America.

You see how bad it is in America, and we have rights like the freedom of speech. Look what they did to Sandmann and the Covington kids. High ranking people at corporations like Disney Tweeting that he should be thrown in a wood chipper. You can do a lot with just somebody's name and general location.

Now imagine you're in Communist China. Instead of getting death threats from "adults" who should know better but can't help their SJW idiocy, maybe by this time tomorrow you just never existed.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 6:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Bullshit, Jack. Just stop. Stop being an ass, just because you can't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Or better yet - LOOK AT ALL THE SEARCHES AND ALL THE SOURCES I'VE GONE TO THAT HAVE MILLIONS OF VIEWS EVERY DAY AND FOUND NOTHING. LITERALLY NOTHING.

Or are facts too much for you? Again.

Just did a Google search for nothing more than "Coronavirus" without quotes.

Tons of stuff shown.

Top three results:

2 hours ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/02/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

8 minutes ago: https://www.kcra.com/article/second-case-coronavirus-confirmed-in-sant
a-clara-county-cdc-says/30743112


14 minutes ago: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/south-bay/second-case-of-coronav
irus-in-bay-area-confirmed/2225499
/



Maybe you've got some CIA spooks messing with your IP address or something. I honestly don't have a freaking clue what you're talking about when you say it's being scrubbed from the internet. A simple one word search on google showed me three results from the last two hours. Two of them in the last 15 minutes.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

What is your malfunction, Jackhole?

You keep posting all of these stupid asinine posts, while claiming that you are not smoking weed this week, that you are no longer drunk. When you do this, without telling us what your problem is, you merely short-circuit your credibility.

Maybe this is the day you celebrate Illiteracy. Maybe this is your meth day. Maybe you are distracted because Nilbog's hubby banged your bung and you are sore. Maybe we need to ask BungBetty what if wrong with you, or what flavor your dingleberry juice is today - but I don't listen to her delusional screeching, anyhow. Much of RWED has become home to her delusional screeching, so I just need to dig further for something to read.

But chill out on the asinine postings, or just tell us what your malfunction is for the day, or your lapse in literacy. You look like the sockpuppet for T - in the quoted post, you actually prove kiki's point that the internet search engines have been scrubbed of the biggest news story of the year, yet like T you claim that you disproved her assertion.

Don't be a tard while the adults are talking, m'kay? Why are you the only poster in this thread besides the usual Trolls who cannot understand the simple words that have been used? I even tried to provide a summary post - although nobody has quoted it, corrected it, updated it.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 6:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
U.S. CDC CONFIRMS 11 CONFIRMED CORONAVIRUS CASES IN UNITED STATES - TELEBRIEFING

More ominously, the CDC said that the new Coronavirus case is close contact of other California case, and was spread person-to-person.

CDC: PREPARING AS IF CORONAVIRUS WERE THE NEXT PANDEMIC



To be sure, this is from ZH where the world is always on the brink of ending, it provided no links, and I haven't followed up on this.






https://www.thedailybeast.com/cdc-coronavirus-boss-nancy-messonnier-ca
lls-spread-unprecedented-as-cases-surge-in-us-and-abroad

Federal officials confirmed the number of U.S. cases of 2019 novel coronavirus had reached 11 on Monday, describing the increasingly deadly global crisis as “explosive” and “unprecedented,” and suggesting it amounted to a potential pandemic.
California has now become a domestic epicenter of infections, with two infections confirmed in Santa Clara County, in the Bay Area; two more in San Benito County, near Monterey, where a man appeared to infect his wife; and, previously, one case each in Orange County and Los Angeles County, in Southern California.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/mayo-clinic-dr-gregory-poland-coronavi
rus-basically-at-a-pandemic.html

Mayo Clinic doctor: Coronavirus is ‘basically at a pandemic now’ and should be treated as such
“We’re basically at a pandemic now,” said Poland, regarding the deadly virus, which has currently been labeled as an epidemic.
The next few weeks will be crucial in how the coronavirus affects the U.S., said former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb. “If we don’t start to see outbreaks in the next two or three weeks, we might have dodged a bullet,” said Gottlieb.


https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-pandemic-what-that-m
eans-epidemic-difference-2020-2

Scientists say the Wuhan coronavirus outbreak could soon be declared a pandemic. Here's what that means.


I know you have been delving into the origins of the breakout in china. But China data is at best suspect. Have you been trying to track the individual landings of the outbreak outside of China? 11 cases now in America, most of them parallel from China, but some of them generative from another case in America. First fatality in Phillipines. UK, Canada, America might have better transparency with their outbreak progressions.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 6:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
In any case - Jack, we were talking about entirely different things. I was talking about the 4 HIV-like protein insertions into the coronavirus. The reason I highlighted it is because it puts the virus, and more generically 'how our world works', into an entirely new light.

I do have a personal interest though. Here here in SoCal - where we get every darn thing going around the globe due to our extensive air connections - it pays for me specifically to be cautious about catching anything else this year, given that I'm still wheezing and bubbling in my lungs, and coughing and having a hard time breathing from time to time, after having had 'only' influenza B/ Victoria many weeks ago. But I'm not scared of this coronavirus, and I'm pretty sure I don't need to be talked off the ledge with dismissive pablum.

I think I've been extremely clear that I have found this kind of stuff interesting for literally as long as I can remember. That's why I post.

I've also been extremely cautious about my predictions for how this is going to go - ie I don't have any, a point I've reiterated many times. It's not like I'm trying to stampede anyone into a panic with doomsday soothsaying.

I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, and try to address what I post, without making extraneous assumptions about what I mean.


Please ignore this illiterate jackhole.

I want to thank you for your informative posts, n this thread and many others. Most of the reasonable and sensible folk in this thread can read and comprehend. I am certain that I never would have found the paper explaining the insertions on my own, as busy as my life is. I am certain I would not have clearly detected the scrubbing of the information from the search engines, although I have been greatly familiar with the scrubbing on many other topics.

I want to thank all who have posted info in this thread, and also do so in other threads. I have limited login ability/access, so I often do not make posts when clear information has already been provided - info which I would certainly not have found on my own.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 6:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
So, I'm reposting this because it was put out by The Lancet, the premier medical journal out of England.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)302
60-9/fulltext


Interpretation
Given that 2019-nCoV is no longer contained within Wuhan, other major Chinese cities are probably sustaining localised outbreaks. Large cities overseas with close transport links to China (I'd say Los Angeles fits that category) could also become outbreak epicentres, unless substantial public health interventions at both the population and personal levels are implemented immediately. Independent self-sustaining outbreaks in major cities globally could become inevitable because of substantial exportation of presymptomatic cases and in the absence of large-scale public health interventions. Preparedness plans and mitigation interventions should be readied for quick deployment globally.



IMO this is a situation of 'wait and see'. No one can predict the outcome, with, again IMO, the biggest variable being the number of unidentified cases in the general population. But if 2019-nCoV should get a toehold, the second variable would be if there's brisk and maybe even draconian measures to stop the spread.

I was right when WAY back in the thread I called the spread 'explosive'. And if the findings of novel (potentially HIV-related) inserts that 'recognize' and attach to human cells are reproduced, that would go a long way to explaining why. The virus was built for transmission among people.

I think US authorities will have the necessary data in 2 or 3 weeks about which way this is going. I'm not confident we will. But if there's "sustaining localised outbreaks" it'll be obvious to localised doctors and hospitals shortly thereafter, and to the rest of the localised people within a few weeks of that, because they'll be noticing a lot of sick people around.

IN THE MEANTIME, I have thought about personal protective measures. So, this is my PERSONAL opinion only, and not medical advice. Obviously if you're in the same household as someone who's sick, you need to be extremely careful - wear masks, gloves, use disposable aprons, and wash or sanitize your hands frequently. Make sure they see a doctor for testing, and, if needed, isolation and treatment. And if you get sick, see a doctor for testing and, if needed, isolation and treatment. But in general, when you're just out and about, I believe the vital link in the infection chain is 'contaminated hands to face' actions. So I think getting hand sanitizer - at least 60% alcohol (either ethanol or IPA) - and keeping one in your car and one in your house is a good idea. You've been touching things the whole time, and then you touched your keys to get into your car. When you get back into your car, sanitize your hands and keys. Rub your hands and use enough so that your hands stay wet at least a minute (which is the recommendation for bacteria). When you get back to your house, sanitize your hands again, or wash them. You may have touched the car door handle on your way out of the car, or other potentially contaminated surfaces. As for masks, I personally don't think they carry a whole lot of extra protection (minimal, at best) EXCEPT - they eliminate hand-to-nose and hand-to-mouth actions, and they might remind you to avoid hand-to-eye actions, at least until you've sanitized or washed your hands.

Is any of this 100%? No, of course not!

That's the best I can come up with given the information I've found at this time. Your mileage may vary.


Have you abandoned aerosol transmission? I thought I've seen numerous mentions of this method with novel corona.

Is there an idea of how much non-contact exposure produces new cases? The percentage of new cases from purely contact exposure? I believe the 5% or 2% rate of fatality is for those who are diagnosed and displaying symptoms already, right?

If it is non-aerosol, the initial dozen cases of medical staff/workers who contracted it seems telling.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 6:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


There's some indication you can catch the virus from your eyes (similar to the flu - any mucous membrane will do, not just noses and mouths); and some indication you can catch it if you're in 'close proximity' - I've seen different figures but so far roughly 6' - of someone who's coughing or sneezing and actively spewing aerosols into the air. So, should this get going here, I'd suggest limiting your time in close proximity - elevators, for example - with anyone.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 6:43 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I think JSF needs to read the whole thread before he makes idiotic posts and personal attacks.

I expect this behavior from the lefties here. You should know better.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 3, 2020 7:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/aggressive-action-necessary
-counter-unprecedented-threat-coronavirus-cdc-says-n1128671


Aggressive action necessary to counter the 'unprecedented threat' of coronavirus, CDC says
The U.S. plans to evacuate more American citizens from the epicenter of the outbreak in the coming days.

By Erika Edwards

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Monday defended what it called "aggressive actions" to control the spread of the new coronavirus in the United States, including stern advisories against traveling to China and mandatory federal quarantines for those arriving from the part of China with the vast majority of cases.

The characterization comes as the agency is working to provide state and local health departments with the tools needed to diagnose the virus themselves.

Currently, the CDC headquarters in Atlanta is the only place in the country with a test for the new coronavirus. That means lab results take at least 24 to 36 hours, including the time it takes to send samples overnight to Atlanta, plus four to six hours to perform the actual test.

On Monday, the CDC said it planned to submit the diagnostics to the Food and Drug Administration for approval of the test under "emergency use authorization." That action hastens the approval process for potentially lifesaving medical or diagnostic products during public health emergencies, the CDC said.

An "explosive" outbreak in China

While cases of the new coronavirus have been diagnosed in at least two dozen countries, including 11 cases in the U.S., by far, China has the greatest number of cases worldwide. As of Monday morning, Chinese health officials had reported more than 17,000 patients, and more than 360 deaths.

The CDC called the outbreak in China "explosive" and "unprecedented."

"We are preparing as if this were the next pandemic," Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during a call with journalists Monday.

She said the Department of State — which last week, issued a "do not travel" advisory for China — is planning to pull out additional U.S. citizens from Hubei province in the coming days. The city of Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak, is located in Hubei. The first group of evacuees from Wuhan arrived in California last week and remain under federal quarantine.

On Friday, Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar declared the virus a public health emergency in the U.S., and announced that Americans on flights to the U.S. who have been in Hubei province in the last 14 days will be subject to up to 14 days of quarantine.

Those passengers will all be routed through one of 11 airports, including John F. Kennedy International in New York, Chicago's O'Hare, San Francisco International, Seattle-Tacoma International, Daniel K. Inouye International in Honolulu, Los Angeles' LAX, Hartsfield-Jackson in Atlanta, Washington Dulles, Newark Liberty International, Dallas-Fort Worth and Detroit Metropolitan.

U.S. citizens returning from other parts of China will be given health screenings, and if they have coronavirus symptoms, they'll also be placed under quarantine, in isolation. Those who don't have any symptoms and have not been in Hubei province in the past 14 days, will be allowed to move freely, with guidance to stay home when possible and monitor themselves for illness over the next two weeks.

Also Friday, the Trump administration announced that it was temporarily suspending entry into the U.S. for any foreign nationals who may be at risk for carrying the virus. The proclamation applies to anyone other than immediate family of U.S. citizens.

Over the weekend, Chinese officials criticized the U.S. for its travel restrictions. "Many countries have offered China help and support through various ways. In contrast, the U.S. comments and actions are neither based on facts, nor helpful at this particular time," China's foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said in a statement.

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Monday, February 3, 2020 8:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
There's some indication you can catch the virus from your eyes (similar to the flu - any mucous membrane will do, not just noses and mouths); and some indication you can catch it if you're in 'close proximity' - I've seen different figures but so far roughly 6' - of someone who's coughing or sneezing and actively spewing aerosols into the air. So, should this get going here, I'd suggest limiting your time in close proximity - elevators, for example - with anyone.

Now that there is a case in New York City - the effective petri dish of America - you should be able to see how well it spreads.
How long before air/train/bus travel from NYC is banned to real America?

I'm not sure Chicago or LA, SFO are quite as enlightening or entertaining.

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Tuesday, February 4, 2020 7:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


First American case, apparently reported from 20 Jan, has now been released from the hospital.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/snohomish-county-man-
with-novel-coronavirus-discharged-from-hospital
/


I have seen reports that he had infected 3 others.

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Tuesday, February 4, 2020 7:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think we're in 'wait and see mode' (or maybe watchful waiting). Let's see how much traction this gets in at least localized areas.

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Tuesday, February 4, 2020 9:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


If they're releasing cases here, the CDC isn't worried about it.

I don't mean to sound like the biggest cynic in the world, but I don't think there is any way that our own government wouldn't be locking these people up and swallowing the key (or worse) if they were worried about a massive outbreak.

Then again, this could all be the beginnings of Agenda 2030 or whatever they're calling it now (yanno, the part only the conspiracy theorists talk about that has to do with culling the population). Anything is possible.

I'm still not going to lose any sleep over it either way.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 12:37 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Jeeze Jack, I know * I'm * not worried! And I've said so many times! But you seem to think no one could just be - yanno - interested. Because it's interesting, unusual, different ....

YOU OTOH have repeated yourself so often WHEN NO ONE IS WORRIED I think you must be projecting your worries onto everyone else.

So STOP WORRYING!

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 1:02 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]




Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 1:10 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well you certainly SEEM to be all anxious over it! Because you just can't stand it when anyone posts about it.

So take a chill pill, dude!


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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 1:33 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I've added some comments by way of explanation, and to highlight things I think are interesting. But this is a poorly written article (IMO) with many interpolated and recursive trains of thought, so the relevance of some of my comments may be spread over more than one paragraph. (In the past I've rearranged such articles, but I'm not going to bother here.)


https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/04/health/coronavirus-slow-strategy-cdc/in
dex.html


(CNN)It has been two weeks since the first US case of Wuhan coronavirus was announced, and the US strategy to fight it has become clear: It's impossible to stop this virus right now -- it can only be slowed down. That's to slow down the R0 to less than one. If you do that, you'll eventually stop the spread and contain it. As long as the R0 is greater than 1, the virus is still spreading faster than it's being contained.

There are several reasons why.

First, people are flying into the United States every day from China, where the newly discovered virus has infected thousands of people. While there are health screenings at US airports, quarantines for some passengers and even limits on who is allowed into the United States, a government official says there's no way to catch every infected person. Mass screening is one tool. Contact ID and testing is another.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention expects to find more coronavirus cases in the United States, and more cases involving person-to-person transmission. Still, it says, the risk to the American public is low. Very true.

"It's important to know that this strategy is not meant to catch every single traveler returning from China with novel coronavirus," Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said at a press briefing Monday. "Given the nature of this virus and how it's spreading, that would be impossible. But working together, we can catch the majority of them."

The goal instead is "to slow the entry of this virus into the United States," she said.

It's now a much more daunting task to screen travelers from China than during the SARS outbreak in 2003, said Dr. William Schaffner, a longtime CDC adviser.

SARS -- or severe acute respiratory syndrome -- also originated in China.

"The volume of travel has hugely increased since then," he said. "We have many, many more people travelling to and from the interior of China than we used to have. That makes this a much greater challenge."

Another factor that makes the current outbreak challenging is that, as the number of cases grows, it becomes more and more difficult to do what disease detectives call contact tracing: tracking down everyone these infected people have had contact with and then, if necessary, testing those people for the virus.

In just two weeks, 11 people in the United States have tested positive for the Wuhan coronavirus. To put that in perspective, during the entire SARS outbreak, there were just eight laboratory confirmed cases over a period of many months, according to the CDC.

In the current outbreak, with so many cases in such a short period of time, "your resources become swamped," Schaffner said.

The US Food and Drug Administration announced on Tuesday it authorized emergency use of the CDC-developed coronavirus test in qualified labs around the United States. Previously, the test for the Wuhan coronavirus could only be performed at CDC headquarters in Atlanta. And that's a problem! One wants quick turn-around! As of Monday, the agency has tested 178 people, and all but 11 have been negative. In addition, 82 specimens are on the way to the CDC or awaiting testing there.

The CDC had said it was trying to get the test out to state health departments to speed things up.

"This is very, very important, and I think the CDC recognizes that," said Schaffner, an infectious disease specialist at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. "I think they're working literally day and night to get these testing kits assembled and training done so state health departments can do this testing."

Further complicating matters is that the test isn't always accurate.

The FDA noted that negative results on the test do not preclude infection with the virus, and negative results must be combined with clinical observations, patient history and epidemiological information. It must be testing for the antibodies people develop after infection. Antibody production doesn't start right away, it takes a while to have detectable levels, and some people - in this case perhaps children - may never develop high levels, or what they call titers.

"A negative test result most likely means the person is not infected. However, it may mean that an infection has not developed enough to be detected by the test," Messonnier said at Monday's CDC briefing.

She added that CDC has been asking doctors for multiple samples, including swabs from the nose and throat.

"This is a new virus and the best timing and the right type of sample to determine if someone is infected with this new virus has not yet been determined," she said. If they're taking swabs, then they could also looking for the virus, possibly by TEM.

Even with the limits on resources and the uncertainty in testing, Schaffner said the CDC can still contain the outbreak.

"Life is not perfect, but we can deal with these issues," he said. "It's clear that given finite resources, we've had to adjust our public health goals, but they are still very, very rigorous."


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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 2:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Well... again, if the CDC were really all that concerned (or if they actually wanted to stop it, in the conspiracy theorists POV), we could just temporarily shut down all flights from China, or given the fact that it's spreading all over the world, we could shut down all fights into America period, indefinitely.

Hopefully it doesn't mutate after a short period and become something that can't be contained, since we've already let it in. Apparently none of these dummies ever saw Outbreak.



This is truly a great ad campaign for unrestricted and open borders, innit?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 11:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Chinese internet=focused holding company Tencent briefly posted catastrophic infected and death rate figures before changing them moments later to government-aligned statistics
Quote:

According to the report, late on Saturday evening, Tencent, on its webpage titled "Epidemic Situation Tracker", showed confirmed cases of novel coronavirus (2019nCoV) in China as standing at 154,023, 10 times the official figure at the time. It listed the number of suspected cases as 79,808, four times the official figure.

And while the number of cured cases was only 269, well below the official number that day of 300, most ominously, the death toll listed was 24,589, vastly higher than the 300 officially listed that day.

That would be a 16% death rate

Quote:

Tencent screengrab as of late Feb 1, showing far higher infections.


Moments later, Tencent updated the numbers to reflect the government's "official" numbers that day.


Screengrab showing higher numbers (left), chart showing "official" numbers (right). (Internet image)

This was not the first time Tencent has done this: as Taiwan Times notes, Chinese netizens have noticed that Tencent has on at least three occasions posted extremely high numbers, only to quickly lower them to government-approved statistics.

Glitch? Cry for help? Whistleblowing?

Russia is preparing for a pandemic. It has an antiviral that has been successfully used for 15 other viruses, and would like to begin testing, but China haas not sent it a sample of live virus, yet.
https://www.rt.com/russia/480037-china-tests-russian-drug-coronavirus/

The situation in China is far different from here (we hope). You have to remember that if patient zero really was infected Dec 1, 2019, that means there was a whole lot of silent transmission going on. Then the government spent two(?) weeks blaming the fishmarket at Wuhan, even as it already knew that human-to-human transmission was happening.

I just can't imagine what those officials were thinking. Were they thinking this would just "go away"? Yanno, when you have a potentially big problem, shutting your eyes and hiding in a closet may be what you WANT to do, but it's not the responsible thing to do. Better to have some paranoid person (people) start examining the scope of the problem and mitigation effects right quick, before it becomes fulminant.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 12:22 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Maybe that's Chinese football stats.

Somebody could show me those screen grabs and tell me it was anything and without any evidence to the contrary I'd just be taking that for what they said it was on faith.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 1:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just reposting Signy to be able to easily read.


Chinese internet=focused holding company Tencent briefly posted catastrophic infected and death rate figures before changing them moments later to government-aligned statistics
Quote:

According to the report, late on Saturday evening, Tencent, on its webpage titled "Epidemic Situation Tracker", showed confirmed cases of novel coronavirus (2019nCoV) in China as standing at 154,023, 10 times the official figure at the time. It listed the number of suspected cases as 79,808, four times the official figure.

And while the number of cured cases was only 269, well below the official number that day of 300, most ominously, the death toll listed was 24,589, vastly higher than the 300 officially listed that day.

That would be a 16% death rate

Quote:

Tencent screengrab as of late Feb 1, showing far higher infections.
https:// zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/corona%20real%20data.jpg?itok=Uk-e2XMJ

Moments later, Tencent updated the numbers to reflect the government's "official" numbers that day.
https:// zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/china%20fake%20numbers%20comp.jpg?itok=5cce9WjL

Screengrab showing higher numbers (left), chart showing "official" numbers (right). (Internet image)

This was not the first time Tencent has done this: as Taiwan Times notes, Chinese netizens have noticed that Tencent has on at least three occasions posted extremely high numbers, only to quickly lower them to government-approved statistics.

Glitch? Cry for help? Whistleblowing?

Russia is preparing for a pandemic. It has an antiviral that has been successfully used for 15 other viruses, and would like to begin testing, but China haas not sent it a sample of live virus, yet.
https://www.rt.com/russia/480037-china-tests-russian-drug-coronavirus/

The situation in China is far different from here (we hope). You have to remember that if patient zero really was infected Dec 1, 2019, that means there was a whole lot of silent transmission going on. Then the government spent two(?) weeks blaming the fishmarket at Wuhan, even as it already knew that human-to-human transmission was happening.

I just can't imagine what those officials were thinking. Were they thinking this would just "go away"? Yanno, when you have a potentially big problem, shutting your eyes and hiding in a closet may be what you WANT to do, but it's not the responsible thing to do. Better to have some paranoid person (people) start examining the scope of the problem and mitigation effects right quick, before it becomes fulminant.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 3:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


some important updates:

CDC to distribute 400 test kits
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-05-20-i
ntl-hnk/index.html


Report that said Wuhan coronavirus can spread before symptoms was flawed
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/05/health/wuhan-coronavirus-flawed-rep
ort/index.html


And, some articles I've read said that the 'HIV-like insertions' paper was withdrawn (though the last time I checked it was still on the preprint server) because of the comments that were made on that server. I read the comments and the vast majority were non-technical. One said that they took the same data, and ran a search through the same database used by the original researchers, and got a match with bat coronavirus, even though the original research said there were NO matches in other coronaviruses. So we have 2 different groups, using the same data, and the same database, and the same search software, saying 2 different things ABOUT WHETHER THE INSERTIONS LOOK LIKE HIV or something else. No one is disputing that they're there, or that they make the virus very transmissible.

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 7:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


12th case is in Wisconsin.

Dane county is where Madison is located.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/first-case-of-coronavirus-confirm
ed-in-wisconsin

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 7:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


A wife and daughter who were stuck in China got on a chartered flight Tuesday night in China, flying to Riverside, CA (inland from LA, not near San Diego).

From what I have surmised, it seems most of Americans who were stuck in China have now been able to return to America - unless they did not pass screening.

Does anybody know of any Americans still stuck in China? I had heard of some who were teaching in Wuhan, but at the time of the outbreak were traveling in Thailand or Laos, and are now delaying their return to Wuhan.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/world/asia/coronavirus-china.html?s
tate=default&variant=show&context=storyline_menu#link-57db3877

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Wednesday, February 5, 2020 7:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Does anybody know of any Americans still stuck in China? I had heard of some who were teaching in Wuhan, but at the time of the outbreak were traveling in Thailand or Laos, and are now delaying their return to Wuhan.
Sorry, I did a quick search but didn't come up with that information. But the State Department has only one more flight scheduled to 'evacuate' Americans from China.

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/coronavirus-usa-confirmed-cases-n
ews-death-toll-evacuations-latest-2020-02-05
/

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 1:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


WHO says coronavirus cases surge: ‘Most cases in a single day’
Published Wed, Feb 5 202011:20 AM ESTUpdated Wed, Feb 5 20202:10 PM EST )(yesterday)
• The number of cases for coronavirus surged in the last day, with more than 3,100 new patients confirmed in China, the World Health Organization said.
• Just 191 of the total cases are outside mainland China, where 80% of those cases are concentrated in Hubei province, the WHO said.
• Of the cases outside of China, 31 spread through human-to-human contact, mostly from close friends or relatives who had recently been to China.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/who-says-coronavirus-cases-surged-over
night-most-cases-in-a-single-day-since-the-outbreak-started.html



China Clamps Down on Coronavirus Coverage as Cases Surge (yesterday)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/world/asia/china-coronavirus-censor
ship.html

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/white-house-asks-scientists-investigat
e-origins-coronavirus/story?id=68807304


White House asks scientists to investigate origins of coronavirus



Yanno, even having been on the receiving end of those kinds of requests (IT'S AN EMERGENCY !! ... sigh ... private eye roll), I have to agree with Trump.

Maybe it's not the most important thing to be doing RIGHT NOW !! - and that's a nuance I can see sailing right past Trump - but it's an important question to answer at some point.

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

White House asks scientists to investigate origins of coronavirus



Uh oh. I'm sure Nancy Pelosi is going to try to figure out a way to spin this into impeachment 2.0.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Because ... Trump colluded with Putin ... who colluded with Xi ...

... I'm finding it hard to get both PUTIN !!! and RUSSIA !!! into the same scheme. Yanno, RUSSIA !!! is such a meme right now, any claim seems 'neked' without it. But isn't PUTIN !!! the evil puppetmaster behind it all?

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Apparently so did Nancy.

She might want to start thinking about practicing making toilet wine.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN





https://ca.news.yahoo.com/doctor-who-tried-to-warn-people-about-corona
virus-has-died-211153344.html


Kinda like the first person that Iraq/Iran arrested as responsible for shooting down the airplane with 2 missiles was the guy who recorded the missiles hitting the plane, and then posted it to social media.

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Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
WHO says coronavirus cases surge: ‘Most cases in a single day’
Published Wed, Feb 5 202011:20 AM ESTUpdated Wed, Feb 5 20202:10 PM EST )(yesterday)
• The number of cases for coronavirus surged in the last day, with more than 3,100 new patients confirmed in China, the World Health Organization said.
• Just 191 of the total cases are outside mainland China, where 80% of those cases are concentrated in Hubei province, the WHO said.
• Of the cases outside of China, 31 spread through human-to-human contact, mostly from close friends or relatives who had recently been to China.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/who-says-coronavirus-cases-surged-over
night-most-cases-in-a-single-day-since-the-outbreak-started.html



China Clamps Down on Coronavirus Coverage as Cases Surge (yesterday)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/world/asia/china-coronavirus-censor
ship.html


It might be helpful, or less confusing, to keep the data separate between "China" data, "outside China" data, and combined data.
China fabricates numbers with no predictability, but did actual cases outside China also surge?

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