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Electoral College If We Were Not A Republic, Federation Of States

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Monday, July 20, 2020 16:46
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Sunday, February 9, 2020 2:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


In another thread it was pondered how the Electoral College makeup would be if The Constitution did not define a Republic, a Federation of States, but instead a Federation of Large Cities.
So, instead of apportioning 435 Electors to the States, we would apportion (using the same apportionment formula as for the Representatives) the 538 Electors to the States.

In minimal accordance with the spirit and letter of the law, we would require a minimum of 3 Electors for each State (from the definition of 3 members of Congress representing the State), and also 3 for D.C.




The first column is the number of Electors as specified in The Constitution. The 2nd column is the population from 2010 based upon the published priority numbers actually used in the 2010 Apportionment list. The 3rd column is the estimated number (always less than or equal to the actual) of Electors (as envisioned under the Federation of Large Cities). Then the priority number for the next Elector for that State.

ST 2010 Pop(Cens)| Estimt | next seat > Priority number / awarded Seat
CA 55 37,341,990 | 62/061 | 62>607206 63>597490/535
TX 38 25,268,418 | 42/104 | 42>608921 43>594592
NY 29 19,421,055 | 32/136 | 32>616619 33>597641/534
FL 29 18,900,773 | 31/167 | 33>581631 32>600100/532
IL 20 12,864,380 | 21/188 | 21>627717 22>598505/533

PA 20 12,734,905 | 21/209 | 21>621399 22>592481
OH 18 11,568,495 | 19/228 | 19>625552 20>593451
MI 16 09,911,626 | 17/245 | 17>601031 18>566609
GA 16 09,727,566 | 16/261 | 16>627911 17>589870
NC 15 09,565,782 | 16/277 | 16>617468 17>580010

NJ 14 08,807,501 | 15/292 | 15>607775 16>568621
VA 13 08,037,737 | 13/305 | 13>643533 14>595796
WA 12 06,753,369 | 11/316 | 11>643908 12>587805
MA 11 06,569,644 | 11/327
IN 11 06,501,582 | 11/338

AZ 11 06,412,700 | 11/349
TN 11 06,375,430 | 11/360 | 11>607873
MO 10 06,011,478 | 10/370 | 11>573171
MD 10 05,789,929 | 10/380 | 10>610312
WI 10 05,698,230 | 09/389 | 10>600646/531

MN 10 05,314,879 | 09/398 | 09>626364
CO 09 05,044,930 | 08/406 | 09>594550
AL 09 04,802,982 | 08/414
SC 09 04,645,974 | 08/422 | 08>620844
LA 08 04,553,961 | 07/429 | 08>608548/529

KY 08 04,350,606 | 07/436 | 07>671313
OR 07 03,848,605 | 06/442 | 07>593852
OK 07 03,764,883 | 06/448
CT 07 03,581,627 | 06/454 | 6>653912
IA 06 03,053,786 | 05/459 | 6>557542

MS 06 02,978,240 | 05/464 |
AR 06 02,926,228 | 05/469
KS 06 02,863,814 | 05/474 | 5>640368
UT 06 02,770,765 | 04/478 | 5>619561/528
NV 06 02,709,432 | 04/482 | 5>605847/530

NM 05 02,067,273 | 03/485 | 4>596770
WV 05 01,859,815 | 03/488 | 4>536882
NE 05 01,831,825 | 03/491
ID 04 01,573,499 | 03/494
HI 04 01,366,861 | 03/497

ME 04 01,333,074 | 03/500
NH 04 01,321,445 | 03/503
RI 04 01,055,247 | 03/506
MT 03 00,994,416 | 03/509
DE 03 ?0897936? | 03/512

SD 03 ?0814191? | 03/515
AK 03 ?0710249? | 03/518
ND 03 ?0672591? | 03/521
VT 03 ?0625745? | 03/524
WY 03 ?0563767? | 03/527

T 435 308156338 326464979 |


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Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


In this version, we would only abide the minimum of 1 Elector per State, and also 1 Elector for D.C.
And then Apportion the 537 Electors among the States, still using the same formula which the House uses to Apportion Representatives.

I will need to guess which is the lowest population State to get a 2nd Elector, because that data is not available for the 2010 Census, from what i can find.


The first column is the number of Electors as specified in The Constitution. The 2nd column is the population from 2010 based upon the published priority numbers actually used in the 2010 Apportionment list. The 3rd column is the estimated number (always less than or equal to the actual) of Electors (as envisioned under the Federation of Large Cities). Then the priority number for the next Elector for that State.

ST 2010 Pop(Cens)| Estimt | Next Seat > Priority Number / Awarded Seat
CA 55 37,341,990 | 64/064 | 64>588081 65>578962/536 66>570123
TX 38 25,268,418 | 43/107 | 43>594592 44>580921/533
NY 29 19,421,055 | 33/140 | 33>597641 34>579797/535
FL 29 18,900,773 | 32/172 | 32>600100 33>581631/530
IL 20 12,864,380 | 22/194 | 22>598505 23>571891

PA 20 12,734,905 | 22/216 | 22>592481 23>566135
OH 18 11,568,495 | 20/236 | 20>593451
MI 16 09,911,626 | 17/253 | 17>601031 18>566609
GA 16 09,727,566 | 16/269 | 16>627911 17>589870 /528
NC 15 09,565,782 | 16/285 | 16>617468 17>580010 /534

NJ 14 08,807,501 | 15/300 | 15>607775 16>568621
VA 13 08,037,737 | 13/313 | 13>643533 14>595796 /525
WA 12 06,753,369 | 11/324 | 11>643908 12>587805 /529
MA 11 06,569,644 | 11/335 | 12>571814
IN 11 06,501,582 | 11/346 | 12>565890

AZ 11 06,412,700 | 11/357
TN 11 06,375,430 | 11/368 | 11>607873
MO 10 06,011,478 | 10/378 | 11>573171
MD 10 05,789,929 | 10/388 | 10>610312 11>552048
WI 10 05,698,230 | 09/397 | 10>600646/523

MN 10 05,314,879 | 09/406 | 09>626364 10>560237
CO 09 05,044,930 | 08/414 | 09>594550/526
AL 09 04,802,982 | 08/422 | 09>566036
SC 09 04,645,974 | 08/430 | 08>620844
LA 08 04,553,961 | 07/437 | 08>608548/521

KY 08 04,350,606 | 07/444 | 07>671313 08>581374/531
OR 07 03,848,605 | 06/450 | 07>593852/527
OK 07 03,764,883 | 06/456 | 07>580934/532
CT 07 03,581,627 | 06/462 | 06>653912 07>552657
IA 06 03,053,786 | 05/467 | 06>557542

MS 06 02,978,240 | 05/472 | 06>543749
AR 06 02,926,228 | 05/477
KS 06 02,863,814 | 05/482 | 5>640368
UT 06 02,770,765 | 04/486 | 5>619561/520
NV 06 02,709,432 | 04/490 | 5>605847/522

NM 05 02,067,273 | 03/493 | 4>596770/524
WV 05 01,859,815 | 03/496 | 4>536882
NE 05 01,831,825 | 03/499
ID 04 01,573,499 | 03/502 | 3>642378
HI 04 01,366,861 | 02/504 | 3>558018

ME 04 01,333,074 | 02/506 | 3>544225
NH 04 01,321,445 | 02/508 | 3>539477
RI 04 01,055,247 | 02/510
MT 03 00,994,416 | 01/511 | 2>703158/518
DE 03 ?0897936? | 01/512 | 2>634936/519

SD 03 ?0814191? | 01/513 | 2>575719/537
AK 03 ?0710249? | 01/514 | 2>502221
ND 03 ?0672591? | 01/515
VT 03 ?0625745? | 01/516
WY 03 ?0563767? | 01/517

T 435 308156338 326464979 |


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Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



The first column is the number of Electors as specified in The Constitution. The 2nd column is the population from 2010 based upon the published priority numbers actually used in the 2010 Apportionment list. The 3rd column is the Number of Electors under the different Allocation, with a Minimum of 3 Electors per State (as envisioned under the Federation of Large Cities). The 4th column is the Number of Electors under the different Allocation, with a Minimum of 1 Elector per State (as envisioned under the Federation of Large Cities).

ST 2010 Pop (Census) |min3/Cum|min1/Cum
CA 55/055 37,341,990 | 63/063 | 65/065
TX 38/093 25,268,418 | 42/105 | 44/109
NY 29/122 19,421,055 | 33/138 | 34/143
FL 29/151 18,900,773 | 32/170 | 33/176
IL 20/171 12,864,380 | 22/192 | 22/198

PA 20/191 12,734,905 | 21/213 | 22/220
OH 18/209 11,568,495 | 19/232 | 20/240
MI 16/225 09,911,626 | 17/249 | 17/257
GA 16/241 09,727,566 | 16/265 | 17/274
NC 15/256 09,565,782 | 16/281 | 17/291

NJ 14/270 08,807,501 | 15/296 | 15/306
VA 13/283 08,037,737 | 13/309 | 14/320
WA 12/295 06,753,369 | 11/320 | 12/332
MA 11/306 06,569,644 | 11/331 | 11/343 No Changes
IN 11/317 06,501,582 | 11/342 | 11/354 No Changes

AZ 11/328 06,412,700 | 11/353 | 11/365 No Changes
TN 11/339 06,375,430 | 11/364 | 11/376 No Changes
MO 10/349 06,011,478 | 10/374 | 10/386 No Changes
MD 10/359 05,789,929 | 10/384 | 10/396 No Changes
WI 10/369 05,698,230 | 10/394 | 10/406 No Changes

MN 10/379 05,314,879 | 09/403 | 09/415
CO 09/388 05,044,930 | 08/411 | 09/424
AL 09/397 04,802,982 | 08/419 | 08/432
SC 09/406 04,645,974 | 08/427 | 08/440
LA 08/414 04,553,961 | 08/435 | 08/448 No Changes

KY 08/422 04,350,606 | 07/442 | 08/456
OR 07/429 03,848,605 | 06/448 | 07/463
OK 07/436 03,764,883 | 06/454 | 07/470
CT 07/443 03,581,627 | 06/460 | 06/476
IA 06/449 03,053,786 | 05/465 | 05/481

MS 06/455 02,978,240 | 05/470 | 05/486
AR 06/461 02,926,228 | 05/475 | 05/491
KS 06/467 02,863,814 | 05/480 | 05/496
UT 06/473 02,770,765 | 05/485 | 05/501
NV 06/479 02,709,432 | 05/490 | 05/506

NM 05/484 02,067,273 | 03/493 | 04/510
WV 05/489 01,859,815 | 03/496 | 03/513
NE 05/494 01,831,825 | 03/499 | 03/516
ID 04/498 01,573,499 | 03/502 | 03/519
HI 04/502 01,366,861 | 03/505 | 02/521

ME 04/506 01,333,074 | 03/508 | 02/523
NH 04/510 01,321,445 | 03/511 | 02/525
RI 04/514 01,055,247 | 03/514 | 02/527
MT 03/517 00,994,416 | 03/517 | 02/529
DE 03/520 ?0897936? | 03/520 | 02/531

SD 03/523 ?0814191? | 03/523 | 02/533
AK 03/526 ?0710249? | 03/526 | 01/534
ND 03/529 ?0672591? | 03/529 | 01/535
VT 03/532 ?0625745? | 03/532 | 01/536
WY 03/535 ?0563767? | 03/535 | 01/537

T 435 308156338 326464979 |





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Thursday, February 20, 2020 3:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I don't think I understand what you mean.

Oh, my sideline interest was simply how much does the addition of 2 senators to each state for total electors change the calculus from proportional to population, with the House of Representatives being the base numbers for proportional-to-population to not-proportional.

I am still not certain I understand your focus of curiosity.

As you surely know, the number of Electors for a State is the number of members representing it has in both chambers of Congress.

As a Republic, a Federation of States, the simplest method of tallying Election results is to count the total number of these States forming The Republic which a candidate won, and the greater total is the winner. For instance, Trump won 30 States of The Republic, and Hilliary garnered 20 States - so Trump was the winner.

2. Perhaps you are saying that if we ignore the Republic Federation of States and the Great Compromise, and switch to a Federation of Large Cities, then the Apportionment of Electors could be based on a common pool of 538 Electors. In other words, while the Representatives for the House are apportioned for 435 Representatives, the Electors would follow the same apportionment formula applied to all 538 Electors.




Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I am still not certain I understand your focus of curiosity.

A LOT of people were whining about the electoral college ... as if it wasn't in the Constitution and should just be ignored ... I digress ... I'm just curious how much of a difference in per-vote weight it makes, compared to a population-proportional vote. It's just a matter of curiosity. But I actually agree with the electoral college. Whatever its original intent, I believe it keeps cities from running the entire country. Having a strictly popular-vote election could end up as a form of legislated slavery, serving city dwellers. Everyone needs to have their voice heard. Even in so-called fly-over country. Even the so-called basket of deplorables.

So, does that mean my #2?




Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So, does that mean my #2?

Almost, if I understand your formulation. My calculation would use the House of Representatives as the basis for proportional apportionment, including the exceptions already made for states that would mathematically have less than 1 representative by strictly mathematical proportionality, that get a minimum of 1 representative no matter what the mathematical calculation is.


But I'm not arguing for it, just to be clear.

Try this thread:

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63508&mid=10939
59#1093959


Is that what you are looking for?




Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Since I don't know what the 'Federation of Large Cities' is, I can't answer that.

Do you prefer 'Federation of Concentrated Population Centers' or Large Urban Centers?


Was the description confusing?





Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I wonder about the specifics and also the intended use. How large does something need to be to counted? Do you mean total metropolitan (of or constituting a large city or urbanized area, including adjacent suburbs and towns) population, or urban centers only? As a category, how does this lump together such diverse places as Los Angeles, Miami, Houston, and New York into something meaningful?

I meant population concentrations. Where population concentration can override Constitutional deliberate specifications of a Republic. Populations concentrations which are contained within a media bubble conducive to social programming, mind control via the mainstream.

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Wednesday, March 4, 2020 5:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


If that didn't fit with what you were curious about, then maybe considering if CA broke into smaller states?

If LA County was a separate State, it would have about 15 Representative in the House. The remainder of CA would get about 39 Reps.

If LA Co was a separate State, and the rest of CA was divided into 9 States of equal population (each about the population of Iowa), then LA would get about 15 Reps, and each of the other 9 States would have about 4 Reps each. (total of 51 Reps, loss of 2 Reps compared to now.)

But they would each get 2 Senators.

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Monday, July 20, 2020 4:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I should have included this quote from the ther thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I am still not certain I understand your focus of curiosity.

A LOT of people were whining about the electoral college ... as if it wasn't in the Constitution and should just be ignored ... I digress ... I'm just curious how much of a difference in per-vote weight it makes, compared to a population-proportional vote. It's just a matter of curiosity. But I actually agree with the electoral college. Whatever its original intent, I believe it keeps cities from running the entire country. Having a strictly popular-vote election could end up as a form of legislated slavery, serving city dwellers. Everyone needs to have their voice heard. Even in so-called fly-over country. Even the so-called basket of deplorables.


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