REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Long hot summer ... of riots

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, August 7, 2020 01:13
SHORT URL:
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Friday, June 5, 2020 12:09 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

What is the real cause? What are the real targets?



The Trump campaign cries censorship after Twitter removes a video about George Floyd on copyright grounds

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-trump-campaign-cries-censo
rship-after-twitter-removes-a-video-about-george-floyd-on-copyright-grounds/ar-BB154LTq?ocid=msedgntp


tick tock comrade. Trumps getting it from all sides now. Everyone has had enough.

T


Deep state describes dedicated, educated professionals.



Correction: You've had enough. You've had enough since he was elected in 2016.

All this is doing is further emboldening people who were already going to vote for Trump and getting people who weren't going to vote out to vote for him.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 5, 2020 12:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Confederate monuments collapse: Statues in Virginia, Alabama and Tennessee are torn down and vandalized with graffiti amid George Floyd protests

• In Alexandria, Virginia the 131-year-old bronze statue of Confederate soldier 'Appomattox' was taken down on Tuesday for fear it would get damaged in riots

• In Birmingham, Alabama the 115-year-old Confederate Soldiers and Sailors monument was removed from its pedestal on Monday night

• In Birmingham, Alabama a crowd of protesters tore down a statue of Confederate Navy captain Charles Linn last week

• In Montgomery, Alabama a statue of General Robert E Lee, the Commander of the Confederate Army in the Civil War, was toppled on Monday

• Confederate monuments in Virginia and South Carolina have also been defaced with graffiti and spray paint

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8382553/Confederate-monuments-collaps
e-Statues-South-torn-amid-George-Floyd-protests.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly





Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 5, 2020 12:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump out and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing the bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, June 5, 2020 12:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK





Agreed.



Hey Kiki. I guess Sigs and I are both looking at the same "extremist" websites.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 5, 2020 1:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. The guy was begging PLEASE to be allowed to breathe. There's no need to invoke some kind of astroturfed fakery about that.

As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?

So no, it's not ALL orchestrated. And yes, there are elements working to take advantage of it. But there are many different elements working on that. The anti-antifa (with antifa since declared a terrorist organization). The boogaloo movement (not declared a terrorist organization). The anti-Trump usual suspects. And so on.

And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.

Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.

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Friday, June 5, 2020 1:29 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And just to point out how STUPID some people are ...


Black lives matter. But SOME Black Lives

GEORGE FLOYD



apparently matter more than other Black Lives

DAVID DORN



Why aren't people protesting the shooting of a 77-year-old black man by looters? Is that not also an outrage?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, June 5, 2020 1:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election ...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Quote:

]Originally posted by JAGOFF:



Agreed.



Hey Kiki. I guess Sigs and I are both looking at the same "extremist" websites.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The difference between you and Signy is that Signy understands Trump isn't god. You, otoh, have tds.

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Friday, June 5, 2020 1:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Why aren't people protesting the shooting of a 77-year-old black man by looters? Is that not also an outrage?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Because it wasn't an 8-minute intentional excruciation? ... caught in all its gory detail from multiple angles on cellphone video?

Yanno, I'm going to bring this up, again. I've seen hundreds of people die. And just imagining anyone dying makes me cringe inside, enough so that I don't want to think about it too muc ... ... ever. There's no such thing as a good death, unless you pass away without distress in your sleep or you get instantaneously unawares splat! taken out by a large vehicle, or poof! vaporized by a nuke. EVERYbody dies in struggle and agony. EVERYbody dies alone. No one can share that journey with anyone. No one can relieve that journey from anyone.

Nobody deserves to die at the hands of another, unless it's in immediate self-defense.

But too many people have seen too much fake death on TV, in the movies, in their video games, for it to feel real. For them to feel with the person dying. Sometimes it takes a real-life video of the god-awfulness of dying to make people understand what it means.



eta: my opinion only



~~ ** ~~ ** ~~



eta: your mileage may vary

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Friday, June 5, 2020 2:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNY: I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.


KIKI: I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. There's no need to invoke some kind of fakery about that.

Yes, but what about the other roughly 999 people killed by cops every year? This isn't the first outrageous killing by police. And while those other killings sparked protests and even riots in their cities (Ferguson, BTW the whole "Hands up don't shoot" was fake) they didn't spread across the world.

Quote:

As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?
"Never let a good crisis go to waste" Antifa, for one. They are loosely organized but have groups in every major and medium-sized city.

Social internet groups. The time is ripe: Schools are closed, there is no summer school, universities are doing online only, and a lot of the summer McJobs that would have kept some young people busy are also closed.

And of course the M$M. This story would hve died an inglorious death if they had not dierted their nonstop Covid-19 coverage to this.

I would say FOLLOW THE MONEY. But that needs investigation.

Quote:

So no, it's not ALL orchestrated.
No, but some groups are extremely pre-prepared to weaponize whatever event pops up.

Quote:

And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.
I fault Trump for his Covid-19 response. But as it turns out, there is more to controlling Covid-19 than lockdowns, so I fault him ... and the CDC, and WHO ... for not having a "plan B" in place.

AFA Trump's response to the protests ... I think the National Guard should have jumped in with both boots to quell the looting and destruction. The same scenario played out over and over ... "It started out peaceful, but ..."

Then violent elements activated and opportunistic looters showed up. I was watching live coverage, and while they were interviewing a few people in Santa Monica ... residents and shopkeepers who were terrorized by the looting and violence... during the whole 10-minute interview they were showing on split screen looters in Long Beach pillaging a Walgreens and several other stores in a small strip mall. These looters were embedded in a PEACEFUL march, they would simply peel off from the crowd to duck into the broken-open stores, sometimes leaving a lookout, or (towards the end of the event) driving up in cars to haul stuff away. The moment the sirens sounded you could see them literally drop their goods, stuff their hand in their pockets and walk away.

The reason why it took LB police so long to react is because they were also busy defending police HQ.

In other cases, people shoot from a crowd of largely peaceful protesters. In such a situation, you can't separate the sheep from the goats, EVERYONE needs to clear the streets.

I compare these protests (which are more like flashmobs) unfavorably to the Gilets Jaunes, who had good control of the elements in their protests.

But I have to ask: WHY NOW? WHY SO BIG? WHY INTERNATIONAL? Especially the "international" part ... that to me points to a less-than-spontaneous reaction.

Quote:

Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.
When I see who is arranged against Trump and the depths to which they will go, I know which side I'm on.

I take it for granted that we can all agree that there should be no more prejudice and discrimination for, or against, anyone.* IMHO that is a SETTLED ISSUE. The same goes for police violence against civilians. Who could possibly be be FOR it? (BTW, there is some speculation that the cop who killed George Floyd was involved in some kind of money laundering operation at the club where he worked for 17 years as security, along with George Floyd who had only worked there for a year, and that maybe Floyd ... who was found with a counterfeit $20 on him, had stumbled onto this operation, and that maybe this was not as undirected and random killing as was thought. There is probably a lot more to this story than we know.)

Instead of rioting and protesting, we should be working together to implement the policy changes that will make police accountability possible, even if it means replacing the entire City Hall, City Council, and police leadership and half of the police force to do it. I don't think you need to get anyone "on side" on these issues if you frame it right. But right now, all that is happening is pitting blacks against whites again, and young against old again, and small storekeepers against "the people" again when the real source of the problem is elsewhere.

*BTW SIX, it is possible to have discrimination both FOR and AGAINST the same group of people operating at the same time. That goes for white males who still have a more positive immediate response than - say- black males, at the same time that white hetero males are not a "protected class" under anti-discrimination laws and may still suffer from prejudice in family court. Being a white male is a mixed bag, just as being a black trans is a mixed bag.

I just firmly believe that we should all be judged on the same criteria as anyone else, and stop focusing on people as categories (identity politics). We should have a accountability applied at the individual level, to everyone, from Jeff Bezos to the most disadvantaged homeless person. Maybe too much to ask, but an ideal worth working towards.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, June 5, 2020 3:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI: I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. There's no need to invoke some kind of fakery about that.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: Yes, but what about the other roughly 999 people killed by cops every year? This isn't the first outrageous killing by cops. And while those other killings sparked protests and even riots in their cities (Ferguson, the whole "Hand up don't shoot" was fake) they didn't spread across the world.
I have no idea in mind how many Vietnamese people were killed during the war, and I'm not going to look it up at the moment. But for some reason, it took a photo of a little burned girl running naked and crying down a road, to reach people and change many hearts and minds.
Quote:

1KIKI: As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?
Quote:

SIGNYM: "Never let a good crisis go to waste" Antifa, for one. They are loosely organized but have groups in every major and medium-sized city.
Antifa might take advantage of a gathering, but they can't organize one. There are, indeed, spontaneous, community-based protests.
Quote:

SIGNYM: Social internet groups. The time is ripe: Schools are closed, there is no summer school, universities are doing online only, and a lot of the summer McJobs that would have kept some young people busy are also closed.
But Soros didn't bring them out.
I've been thinking about how protests are done now in the wired age. Back when, let's say Vietnam, if I understand correctly, there were actual organizations - student organizations, civil rights organizations - that could spread the word and bring people out.
Now it happens by social media.
But the usual question is - what if they called a war - or a protest - and nobody came?
You can bring people out with fakery - yanno, strolling down the streets of Kiev and drinking coffee in the EU heaven - and get relatively small crowds in relatively isolated instances for relatively short periods of time. And yes, outside interests can be involved.

But you can't astroturf the width and depth of this. People are indeed pissed off. For whatever reason, it took THIS instance, THIS gruesome video, to reach people. But it's only the spark, set to long-dry wood.
Quote:

SIGNYM: And of course the M$M. This story would have died an inglorious death if they had not directed their nonstop Covid-19 coverage to this.
If it bleeds, it leads.
OTOH, as protesters have gotten greater and greater control over the protests, they've become less and less violent, and more and more peaceful and focused on police violence - a fact that's also been heavily stressed in the M$M.
I may have mentioned that I survey the M$M both on TV and online. I watch, or at least listen to, ABC news (for all the pompous hyperventilating it can muster about the latest OUTRAGE ! of the day), NBC news (which is actually extremely measured and accurate in its reporting, though highly edited in what it does cover), as well as the PBS NewsHour (so I can keep track of the narrative of the day). And of course I scan the internet. I think I'm pretty well acquainted with the M$M. And I haven't seen the 'non-stop' coverage you think is there.
Quote:

1KIKI: So no, it's not ALL orchestrated.
Quote:

SIGNYM: No, but some groups are extremely quick to weaponize whatever event pops up.
True that.
Quote:

And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.
Quote:

SIGNYM: I fault Trump for his Covid-19 response. (But as it turns out, there is more to controlling Covid-19 than lockdowns, so where I fault him ... and the CDC, and WHO ... is not having a "plan B" in place.)
Trump's response was far worse than that. Trump completely tried to both avoid responsibility, including actively hindering federal response - as well as take credit for the measures governors were forced to take on alone. He pandered to the right-wing anti-democratic crowd - yanno, those people who brought guns to small-protests so they could have the freedom to not wear masks, and to hell with what anybody else wanted. There was of course his wet brown trillion-dollar+ kiss to the multinationals, to keep the stock market up. And his insistence that people go back to work or lose their unemployment coverage even if they thought the job was unsafe, AND his exemption of business from COVID-19 lawsuits.

Because he's for the little guy.
Quote:

SIGNYM: AFA Trump's response to the protests ... I think the National Guard should have jumped in with both boots to quell the looting and destruction. The same scenario played out over and over ... "It started out peaceful, but ..."

Then violent elements activated and opportunistic looters showed up. I was watching live coverage, and while they were interviewing a few people in Santa Monica ... residents and shopkeepers who were terrorized by the looting and violence... during the whole 10-minute interview they were showing on split screen looters in Long Beach pillaging a Walgreens and several other stores in a small strip mall. These looters were embedded in a PEACEFUL march, they would simply peel off from the crowd to duck into the broken-open stores, sometimes leaving a lookout, or (towards the end of the event) driving up in cars to haul stuff away. The moment the sirens sounded you could see them literally drop their goods, stuff their hand in their pockets and walk way.

The reason why it took LB police so long to react is because they were also busy defending police HQ.

In other cases, people shoot from a crowd of largely peaceful protesters. In such a situation, you can't separate the sheep from the goats, EVERYONE needs to clear the streets.

I compare these protests (which are more like flashmobs) to the Gilets Jaunes, who had good control of the elements in their protests.

Many posts ago I said the police should just round everyone up en masse, and start separating out the people from the neighborhood and letting them go, from everyone else who either was from elsewhere or who couldn't show where they lived. I also pointed out that riots tend to evolve the same way, leading to looting and neighborhood destruction.

I don't know if you remember the Rodney King riots, and the thousands of people lined up to loot the (I believe) Pasadena Fedco, while the thin blue line watched helplessly literally from the sidelines. It's not right, but it happens, and you don't need a Soros for it.
Quote:

1KIKI: Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.
Quote:

SIGNYM: When I see who is arranged against Trump and the depths to which they will go, I know which side I'm on.
Both sides seem to be jonesing for nuclear Armageddon and neither side does shit about global warming. What more could I need to know to be against both?
Quote:

SIGNYM: I take it for granted that we can all agree that there should be no more prejudice and discrimination for, or against, anyone.* IMHO that is a SETTLED ISSUE. The same goes for police violence against civilians. Who could possibly be be FOR it? (BTW, there is some speculation that the cop who killed George Floyd was involved in some kind of money laundering operation at the club where he worked for 17 years as security, along with George Floyd who had only worked there for a year, and that maybe Floyd ... who was found with a counterfeit $20 on him, had stumbled onto this operation, and that maybe this was not as undirected and random killing as was thought. There is probably a lot more to this story than we know.)
There always is. And it's not always about Soros.
Quote:

SIGNYM: *BTW SIX, it is possible to have discrimination both FOR and AGAINST the same group of people operating at the same time. That goes for white males who still have a more positive immediate response than say black males, at the same time that white hetero males are not a "protected class" under anti-discrimination laws. I just firmly believe that we should all be judged on the same criteria as anyone else.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Just because I think Trump's responses to COVID and to the protests are shit doesn't mean I'm for doing nothing, or for Soros (see above). Just because I'm anti-police violence doesn't mean I'm for discrimination against whites. One can find both sides worthless.

ETA: But since I live in deep, deep blue California, I can vote my conscience secure in the knowledge my little vote means shit to anyone but me.

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Friday, June 5, 2020 8:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election ...

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Quote:

]Originally posted by JAGOFF:



Agreed.



Hey Kiki. I guess Sigs and I are both looking at the same "extremist" websites.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The difference between you and Signy is that Signy understands Trump isn't god. You, otoh, have tds.




He's not God. I've never said that.

He IS the best president we've had in my lifetime though.

And I do realize that isn't saying much.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 5, 2020 10:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KIKI. I'm sure the reaction ... your reaction, other reactions... are genuine. They're just EASILY MANIPULATED. If you put an image up in front of people that's horrific enough, people stop thinking and start reacting. People really were worried about Iraq's WMD. Some people are still convinced that Trump is Putin's agent. All genuine reactions.

If you want to ANALYZE a situation, you need to be stone cold ... cold. No emotion. For instance, did the police not know they were being videoed? Because it was taken very close up ... close enough to get good sound.

I thought this was an interesting take (from the Saker):

Quote:

I have lived in the United States for a total of 24 years and I have witnessed many crises over this long period, but what is taking place today is truly unique and much more serious than any previous crisis I can recall. And to explain my point, I would like to begin by saying what I believe the riots we are seeing taking place in hundreds of US cities are not about. They are not about:

Racism or “White privilege”
Police violence
Social alienation and despair
Poverty
Trump
The liberals pouring fuel on social fires
The infighting of the US elites/deep state

They are not about any of these because they encompass all of these issues, and more.

It is important to always keep in mind the distinction between the concepts of “cause” and “pretext”. And while it is true that all the factors listed above are real (at least to some degree, and without looking at the distinction between cause and effect), none of them are the true cause of what we are witnessing. At most, the above are pretexts, triggers if you want, but the real cause of what is taking place today is the systemic collapse of the US society.

... For a society, any society, to function a number of factors that make up the social contract need to be present. The exact list that make up these factors will depend on each individual country, but they would typically include some kind of social consensus, the acceptance by most people of the legitimacy of the government and its institutions, often a unifying ideology or, at least, common values, the presence of a stable middle-class, the reasonable hope for a functioning “social life”, educational institutions etc. Finally, and cynically, it always helps the ruling elites if they can provide enough circuses (TV) and bread (food) to most citizens.



BTW, our Canadian friend, who used to be a journalist and who has lived in Egypt, Israel. Nicaragua, and Japan and who knows journalists around the world, also knows Antifa in Canada AND Europe. So they are a very real organization and pretty deeply embedded with the Greens, for example, in Germany. But AFA the Boogaloo Bois ... I didn't see any Hawaiian shirts around, did you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, June 5, 2020 10:41 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


The local Samz Clubs clozed early today. Got there about 5:15. A departing employee sed they cloed due to the protests. There werent any there. Havent herd uv any in that area. She looked happy to be getting out early.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

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Friday, June 5, 2020 11:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meanwhile, the NASDAQ hit an all-time high.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 12:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KIKI. I'm sure the reaction ... your reaction, other reactions... are genuine. They're just EASILY MANIPULATED. If you put an image up in front of people that's horrific enough, people stop thinking and start reacting. People really were worried about Iraq's WMD. Some people are still convinced that Trump is Putin's agent. All genuine reactions.

If you want to ANALYZE a situation, you need to be stone cold ... cold. No emotion. For instance, did the police not know they were being videoed? Because it was taken very close up ... close enough to get good sound.

I thought this was an interesting take (from the Saker):


Quote:

I have lived in the United States for a total of 24 years and I have witnessed many crises over this long period, but what is taking place today is truly unique and much more serious than any previous crisis I can recall. And to explain my point, I would like to begin by saying what I believe the riots we are seeing taking place in hundreds of US cities are not about. They are not about:

Racism or “White privilege”
Police violence
Social alienation and despair
Poverty
Trump
The liberals pouring fuel on social fires
The infighting of the US elites/deep state

They are not about any of these because they encompass all of these issues, and more.

It is important to always keep in mind the distinction between the concepts of “cause” and “pretext”. And while it is true that all the factors listed above are real (at least to some degree, and without looking at the distinction between cause and effect), none of them are the true cause of what we are witnessing. At most, the above are pretexts, triggers if you want, but the real cause of what is taking place today is the systemic collapse of the US society.

... For a society, any society, to function a number of factors that make up the social contract need to be present. The exact list that make up these factors will depend on each individual country, but they would typically include some kind of social consensus, the acceptance by most people of the legitimacy of the government and its institutions, often a unifying ideology or, at least, common values, the presence of a stable middle-class, the reasonable hope for a functioning “social life”, educational institutions etc. Finally, and cynically, it always helps the ruling elites if they can provide enough circuses (TV) and bread (food) to most citizens.

Quote:

BTW, our Canadian friend, who used to be a journalist and who has lived in Egypt, Israel. Nicaragua, and Japan and who knows journalists around the world, also knows Antifa in Canada AND Europe. So they are a very real organization and pretty deeply embedded with the Greens, for example, in Germany. But AFA the Boogaloo Bois ... I didn't see any Hawaiian shirts around, did you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Yes, btw, the police were aware they were being videoed, since some of the people aiming their cell phones were also asking them to let Floyd up, and pointing out to them that he wasn't moving.

I explained how I was horrified, to explain how OTHER people were horrified. That that's why they did what they did. That's what moved people into the streets.

I also posted that the video was a spark set to pre-laid, long-dried kindling. I'm not so naive as to think that at its heart, this is just about one man being killed, rather than about a systemic machine grinding people down. It's just a very effective trigger.

Not all Boogaloo Bois wear Hawaiian shirts.


Finally, I'm well aware more than a few third-parties are exploiting this as much as possible. Also, I find the reaction of the (national evening news - ABC/ NBC/ PBS that I screen) press to be rather balanced - as every newscast I've seen has repeatedly pointed out that the vast majority of protests and protesters are law-abiding, and that there may be/ are interlopers trying to make trouble. So I don't see this being overtly juiced.

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 12:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KIKI. I'm sure the reaction ... your reaction, other reactions... are genuine. They're just EASILY MANIPULATED. If you put an image up in front of people that's horrific enough, people stop thinking and start reacting. People really were worried about Iraq's WMD. Some people are still convinced that Trump is Putin's agent. All genuine reactions.

If you want to ANALYZE a situation, you need to be stone cold ... cold. No emotion. For instance, did the police not know they were being videoed? Because it was taken very close up ... close enough to get good sound.

I thought this was an interesting take (from the Saker):

Quote:

I have lived in the United States for a total of 24 years and I have witnessed many crises over this long period, but what is taking place today is truly unique and much more serious than any previous crisis I can recall. And to explain my point, I would like to begin by saying what I believe the riots we are seeing taking place in hundreds of US cities are not about. They are not about:

Racism or “White privilege”
Police violence
Social alienation and despair
Poverty
Trump
The liberals pouring fuel on social fires
The infighting of the US elites/deep state

They are not about any of these because they encompass all of these issues, and more.

It is important to always keep in mind the distinction between the concepts of “cause” and “pretext”. And while it is true that all the factors listed above are real (at least to some degree, and without looking at the distinction between cause and effect), none of them are the true cause of what we are witnessing. At most, the above are pretexts, triggers if you want, but the real cause of what is taking place today is the systemic collapse of the US society.

... For a society, any society, to function a number of factors that make up the social contract need to be present. The exact list that make up these factors will depend on each individual country, but they would typically include some kind of social consensus, the acceptance by most people of the legitimacy of the government and its institutions, often a unifying ideology or, at least, common values, the presence of a stable middle-class, the reasonable hope for a functioning “social life”, educational institutions etc. Finally, and cynically, it always helps the ruling elites if they can provide enough circuses (TV) and bread (food) to most citizens.



BTW, our Canadian friend, who used to be a journalist and who has lived in Egypt, Israel. Nicaragua, and Japan and who knows journalists around the world, also knows Antifa in Canada AND Europe. So they are a very real organization and pretty deeply embedded with the Greens, for example, in Germany. But AFA the Boogaloo Bois ... I didn't see any Hawaiian shirts around, did you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK




Kiki's reaction for months over the virus shows that she is incapable of rational thought when she's triggered.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 12:29 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.






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Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What I noticed about the M$M is that they persisted in calling these events "protests" long after it became clear that they included riots and looting, and that there's a huge dollop of guilt-tripping and hand-wringing in popular media about how this is all about "white folk" oppressing "black folk".

Yanno those popup articles that show up on your homepage whether you want to see them or not? (Usually some harmless listicle like "the eight ways to hack your sleep" or some longform about the time the author lost her kitten)

Well, this just popped up today ...

Quote:

Reckoning with white supremacy: Five fundamentals for white folks
white folks? Isn't that just as prejudice as lumping everyone of darker hue as "black folks" like they're all the same?

Quote:

As demonstrations in response to the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and countless others gain momentum across the United States, many white people nationwide are being forced to confront the idea that flashpoints like this are not isolated missteps within an otherwise faithful system. Rather, more and more white folks are realizing each day that the very fabric of our society is in fact based on enduring violence against Black people and other marginalized groups.
Jeezus. Do you know what I see? Enduring violence against everybody. Students pushed against the "student loan" wall. Families that can't afford health insurance. Young people who can't afford a home, or an apartment, or even a room, on their gig/McJob, assuming they even have one. Old women eating cat food. Everyone is being ground down. This isn't a black/white thing, or a man/woman thing, or a young/old thing. This is people being pitted against each other by the 0.01%.

Quote:

In this time, the sharing of trauma-porn and reactionary social-media solidarity—while perhaps the most readily available avenue of action for most—are nowhere near suitable surrogates for a factual, historical understanding of this moment.

Southerners are no strangers to white supremacy and police brutality. From slavery to secession, the KKK to “states rights” strategies, from Jim Crow to mass incarceration—we’ve been here before.

Curiously, it is the northeast states that are the most prejudiced, but it's easy to stand up southerners as the enemy du jour.

Quote:

If you’re a “well-meaning” white person feeling lost in your own self-actualization process, here are five basic ideas you must grasp:
1. White supremacy is not “just” racism.

Racism often refers to acts of overt, intentional prejudice and visions of social order that debase people of color while glorifying whiteness. But white supremacy is a systemic and systematic phenomenon woven throughout our society—rather than just the work of racist individuals who intentionally and maliciously discriminate. Our institutions and social practices themselves prop up white advantage and protect white communities, while making Black and brown people vulnerable to exploitation, domination, and violence.

Like? Such as? This sort of vague generalized criticism is designed to make anyone white feel guilty for... something. Anything. Whatever.

Quote:

Conceiving of white supremacy as a problem of individual bad actors is too limited. It reduces a deep social problem to narrow questions ("Are they racist?" "Is this racist?") and shallow defensiveness ("I’m not being racist, but..."), while ignoring that white supremacy is not just a vestigial remnant of the past. White supremacy’s inequities are actively reproduced across history and through the present, in new forms and with new mechanisms of white power.
It's not "white" power that's the problem. The extremely wealthy elite are all colors and nationalities. They only have one thing in common: THEY are the ones in power.

Anyway, the article goes on and on about trivia. What a dodge for the elite! They get to pass off the problems that they created on to a group of light-skinned people who had fuck-all to do with that.

I've posted this before, and I'll post it again until it sinks in: It's a durable observation that when things are going well, people get along fine. But let "the team" lose a few too many games or "the party" lose a few too many elections, or "the people" lose their livelihoods and futures and that's when the fingerpointing, blame-laying, and fighting really starts! The elites are trying to sneak out with their fortunes and skins intact, while everyone else is arguing abot who is to blame, and the shouting just gets louder and louder while nothing gets fixed.

WHY are people in SF rioting over what happened in Minneapolis? Will it solve Minneapolis' police problem? Do the people in SF have a police problem of their own? Well, maybe they should turn their attention to FIXING IT. Why are people in Germany and Denmark rioting over what happened in Minneapolis? Will THEY solve the problem in Minneapolis? Do THEY have a polic problem of their own? Well, if they do, maybe they should start fixing it too.

These demonstrations are, IMHO, virtue signalling: empty actions meant to demonstrate how "good" someone is without doing any actual work of UNDERSTANDING THE REAL PROBLEM, let alone doing any work to actually FIX IT.

*****

I'm not denying that there are far too many crooked cops, and cops who get off on power. Racism still exists, too. And if you exclude a subgroup of people from the benefits of work and reward, a toxic culture ... derived by aping the consumerist paradise of "lifestyles of the rich and famous" ... takes root. (That show may have ended, but the ethos lives on.)

Kurt Vonnegut said it better than I ever could

Quote:

“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.”



We need a whole new direction. The problem isn't primarily prejudice, prejudice is just a tool in the hands of the elite to divide everyone else. Show me the reward, and I will show you the behavior. We need to reward positive virtues are start punishing negative behaviors.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:26 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'll read the rest in a bit, but I do all my inet in anonymous mode, so I don't get those listicles.

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:38 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


To go back a bit: "KIKI. I'm sure the reaction ... your reaction, other reactions... are genuine. They're just EASILY MANIPULATED. If you put an image up in front of people that's horrific enough, people stop thinking and start reacting."

Uh ... I'm not being manipulated, despite my emotional reaction. You don't see me on the street, do you? I WAS trying to explain how it might be that people are reacting so strongly TO THIS while other instances go unremarked. Because it truly is, as you say, horrific enough.

Anyway, I was just pointing out that people are truly reacting. You don't need to posit some third, fourth, fifth ... nth political group to understand that. The video speaks for itself. So I don't understand why you would bring up antifa or the proud bois. It seems kind of peripheral to this. But, you brought them up, so I was attempting to discuss them, as examples of the many groups trying to jigger this to their own advantage.

I was even pointing out that Floyd is the proximate cause of why they're doing what they're doing, but not the real reason. Floyd is the spark meeting the long history of pre-built kindling and logs.

I'm not disagreeing. I'm restating in my own way.


And yes, all this is ineffective kabuki. The righteous outrage. The humble prostrations. The plea to let us all just join together in human commonality. But no one seems politically smart enough on the national stage to outline the issues and solutions.

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 4:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KIKI: If you agree with me, stop "explaining" the protests and protesters as if that will change my view of them as anthing other than well-meaning but (IMHO) lazy dupes.

And, of course, there is no justification for looting, and none for violence unless you're prepared to start a revolution and carry it thru to a specific end. Otherwise you're just fomenting chaos and dysfunction. (And of course why would you do that except to implement "regime change?)

YOU may not be "reacting", but THEY are. We don't need "reacting"; haven't we had enough of that? People who are "reacting" are manipulable and probably being manipulated. Haven't we had enough of that, too?

WHAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM? HOW CAN WE FIX IT? or, alternatively

WHAT ARE AMERICA'S INTERESTS?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 4:07 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Sure.

I thought you were making the point that this was completely astroturfed, and I was just trying to say that it didn't seem that way to me. It seemed accidental and completely genuine. Not saying it's smart of anything like that, just not pre-planned and stage-managed. But if that wasn't your point ... then I misunderstood.

Anyway, sadly, riots and looting - they seem to come with the protest territory. It's dumb, and worse than useless, but there seems to be a long history that that's what happens.

And yeah, pandering to a thoughtless, lazy people. I think it was formally ushered in by Live Aid in 1985 where people would all get together for a really great show and solve Ethiopia's problems forever. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony ..."




Why is it that nobody on the national level is bringing any of this up? About the deep structural problems that put people in a Roman arena of the war of all against all, I mean? Did the people who have the historical background and should know better look at MLK and decide they'd rather save their skins?

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:55 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Hey, fellow white guys!



Have you been obeying your MTV programming?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Sure.

I thought you were making the point that this was completely astroturfed,

No, not astroturfed manipulated
Quote:

and I was just trying to say that it didn't seem that way to me. It seemed accidental and completely genuine. Not saying it's smart of anything like that, just not pre-planned and stage-managed.
You can't pre=plan a cop killing soneone brutally, but you CAN stage-manage the reaction. Show the video, over and over. "Explain" the protests over and over, Soft-pedal the violence. Don't even bother to look for organizers, or ask about a money trail. Too woo-woo.
Quote:

But if that wasn't your point ... then I misunderstood.
Yep, you misunderstood.

Have you not seen films of violent protests in Ukraine? Venezuela? THEY were genuine. They were ALSO stage-managed. The grievances were real... at least, real enough to the protesters. These students (the protesters were almost always students) hated their leader - Chavez, Yanukovich. Hated everything about him. He was taking them in the wrong direction. There are ALWAYS disaffected groups in any society, and Soros and the spook agencies (thru AID, NED and other entities) have been feeding them money for years. Remember "Fuck the EU" Nuland? She bragged that they had spent $5billion in Ukraine over 10 years, fostering disaffection. The money-trail was never brought up until AFTER the color revolution. If you had said that the USA was behind the "spontaneous" rebellion, people would have said you were a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I calculated Nuland's brag: It would have been enough to give every Ukrainian $1000. Real money, really spent on creating real results.

Quote:

Anyway, sadly, riots and looting - they seem to come with the protest territory.
It depends on the protest organizers ... if there are any ... and how disciplined they are. The Civil Rights marchers were peaceful, and so were the Gilets Jaunes. But if the protesters don't care, or don't have the huevos to kick the looters out, then yes, violence and looting will happem
Quote:

It's dumb, and worse than useless, but there seems to be a long history that that's what happens.
Already explained that it's up to the protesters. Are they committed to peaceful protest, or do they lack the motivation or organizational skills to make t happen?

Quote:

And yeah, pandering to a thoughtless, lazy people. I think it was formally ushered in by Live Aid in 1985 where people would all get together for a really great show and solve Ethiopia's problems forever. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony ..."

Why is it that nobody on the national level is bringing any of this up?

Like ... who?

Corporate media??? Oh, yeah, they're going to explain all of the evils of corporatism to us!

Our political representatives, who've gotten into office on the backs of corporate donations and sponsors?

"Public radio" which depends on corporate sponsors and which has a distinct liberal bent? They just want everything to basically stay the same, but "nicer".

Or the internet, which is being strangled by monopolies in Silicon Valley?

Quote:

About the deep structural problems that put people in a Roman arena of the war of all against all, I mean? Did the people who have the historical background and should know better look at MLK and decide they'd rather save their skins?
People ARE bringing this up. despite being de-platformed, demonetized, shadow-banned and blacklisted. (Oh dear me. That's a racist term.)

You're just not finding them. I listen to corporate media, but I scan Zero Hedge (CAUTION!) and RT every day, and also regularly listen to The Duran, which I highly recommend. I think SIX listens to Jimmie Dore. I don't listen to Tucker Carlson regularly but I've been told he has a good show.

I also listen to Chris Martenson (at least about Covid-19, since it seems to be in bis wheelhouse) and occasionally Greg Mannarino, Jim Willie, Max Keiser, Steve Keene, etc and they ALL bring it up in one way or another.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 11:48 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Sure.

I thought you were making the point that this was completely astroturfed,

Quote:

Signy: No, not astroturfed manipulated
Quote:

kiki: and I was just trying to say that it didn't seem that way to me. It seemed accidental and completely genuine. Not saying it's smart of anything like that, just not pre-planned and stage-managed.
Quote:

Signy: You can't pre-plan a cop killing someone brutally, but you CAN stage-manage the reaction. Show the video, over and over. "Explain" the protests over and over, Soft-pedal the violence. Don't even bother to look for organizers,
Quote:

kiki: But if that wasn't your point ... then I misunderstood.
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yep, you misunderstood.

Have you not seen films of violent protests in Ukraine? Venezuela? THEY were genuine. They were ALSO stage-managed. The grievances were real... at least, real enough to the protesters. These students (the protesters were almost always students) hated their leader - Chavez, Yanukovich. Hated everything about him. He was taking them in the wrong direction. There are ALWAYS disaffected groups in any society, and Soros and the spook agencies (thru AID, NED and other entities) have been feeding them money for years. Remember "Fuck the EU" Nuland? She bragged that they had spent $5billion in Ukraine over 10 years, fostering disaffection. The money-trail was never brought up until AFTER the color revolution. If you had said that the USA was behind the "spontaneous" rebellion, people would have said you were a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I calculated Nuland's brag: It would have been enough to give every Ukrainian $1000.

Yes - I did bring up Ukraine, just fyi. Because even with the US spending all that money, it could hardly scrape up the kind of nationwide scale like the Floyd protests today. Again, I'm not saying it's smart or anything. But the color revolutions used as pretexts don't seem to have the scale of the Floyd protests.
As for the media spin, it's confusing to me how over-hyping the events but soft-peddling any violence, if that's what you are proposing, might serve a purpose. I would think that if this is part of some anti-Trump scheme, one would want to create maximum conflict, or at least the appearance of maximum conflict, to provoke a reaction, to create even more conflict.
I would think one would want to increase the agitation.
Quote:

kiki: Anyway, sadly, riots and looting - they seem to come with the protest territory.
Quote:

Signy: It depends on the protest organizers ... if there are any ... and how disciplined they are. The Civil Rights marchers were peaceful, and so were the Gilets Jaunes. But if the protesters don't care, or don't have the huevos to kick the looters out, then yes, violence and looting will happen.
I don't see large-scale organizing here. I was trying to parse out how protests are done nowadays. There was the 'before', where student organizations, civil rights organizations, protest organizations, did - organize - large protests.
But now it's diffused onto social media. Aside from the already-existing organizations (eg: antifa, boogaloo bois) who don't seem to have the numbers to pull off national protests on their own but instead piggyback on existing events, there don't seem to be driving large-scale ones.
Remember Occupy? My mind was changed about its success because it was pointed out to me that now the wealth and power distribution is part of the conversation. That was a national movement loosely organized, and mostly non-violent except for the piggy-backers. But despite it all, it had no political plan, and did end up evaporating.
I think Black Lives Matter will end up the same, but even less effective.
Quote:

kiki: It's dumb, and worse than useless, but there seems to be a long history that that's what happens.
Quote:

Signy: Already explained that it's up to the protesters. Are they committed to peaceful protest, or do they lack the motivation or organizational skills to make it happen?
Quote:

kiki: And yeah, pandering to a thoughtless, lazy people. I think it was formally ushered in by Live Aid in 1985 where people would all get together for a really great show and solve Ethiopia's problems forever. "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony ..."

Why is it that nobody on the national level is bringing any of this up?

Quote:

Signy: Like ... who?
Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson come to mind - surely they've been around long enough to have a good historical perspective, and something instructive to say.
Quote:

Signy: Corporate media??? Oh, yeah, they're going to explain all of the evils of corporatism to us!

Our political representatives, who've gotten into office on the backs of corporate donations and sponsors?

"Public radio" which depends on corporate sponsors and which has a distinct liberal bent? They just want everything to basically stay the same, but "nicer".

Or the internet, which is being strangled by monopolies in Silicon Valley?


Quote:

kiki: About the deep structural problems that put people in a Roman arena of the war of all against all, I mean? Did the people who have the historical background and should know better look at MLK and decide they'd rather save their skins?
Quote:

Signy: People ARE bringing this up. despite being de-platformed, demonetized, shadow-banned and blacklisted.

You're just not finding them. I listen to corporate media, but I scan Zero Hedge (CAUTION!) and RT every day, and also regularly listen to The Duran, which I highly recommend. I think SIX listens to Jimmie Dore. I don't listen to Tucker Carlson regularly but I've been told he has a good show.

I also listen to Chris Martenson (at least about Covid-19, since it seems to be in bis wheelhouse) and occasionally Greg Mannarino, Jim Willie, Max Keiser, Steve Keene, etc and they ALL bring it up in one way or another.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK


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Saturday, June 6, 2020 2:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What I meant was that the media pretending this was all rainbows and unicorn farts made it more likely that people would come out and join the protests because they thought it was all rainbows and unicorn farts, swelling the numbers.

Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? I think they see everything in black/white terms. MLK was the one changing the focus to economic justice and foreign policy, and look where it got HIM. The people that I mentioned are economists or economic commentators.

Just to round out the list, The Saker is particularly good at military analysis, especially of Europe. Pepe Escobar is a geopolitical analyst specially good with Middle Eastern affairs. South Front has a daily update about the military situation in Syria. Paul Joseph Watson is a cultural satirist. Paul Craig Roberts comments on American politics. I've already linked "A Century of Self" about the push towards individualism ("progressive atomization of society") and consumerism. There was a long video about the formation of The Fed by some religious guy, but it had a tremendous amount of research into it and it REALLY opened my eyes about the role of banks ("rentier capitalists" of money and serial counterfeiters) and especially The Fed's role in driving wealth inequality. I'll see if I can find it again, but you can also read "All the President's Bankers" by Nomi Prins. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17836501-all-the-presidents-banker
s


People will have a hard time finding these sites because google and youtube no longer provide an unbiased list of "recommended content" based on your most recent views, but have decided to "curate" them for you based on their political leanings, so it is unlikely that you would come across them or some of the more extreme sites on your own. But to reiterate, I recommend The Duran. I disagree with some of their viewpoints and their occasional commentator Peter Lavelle is all sputtering, inarticulate huffiness, but they tackle a wide variety of topics across the world and always have something interesting to say.


You might think that the Maidan movement was paltry by comparison, but it was big enough and sufficiently supported by our spooks to overthrow a government. If you think THIS movement is bigger, all the more reason to be concerned that it too will be used to overthrow a government.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 2:37 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I meant was that the media pretending this was all rainbows and unicorn farts made it more likely that people would come out and join the protests because they thought it was all rainbows and unicorn farts, swelling the numbers.

Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? I think they see everything in black/white terms. MLK was the one changing the focus to economic justice and foreign policy, and look where it got HIM. The people that I mentioned are economists or economic commentators.

Just to round out the list, The Saker is particularly good at military analysis, especially of Europe. Pepe Escobar is a geopolitical analyst specially good with Middle Eastern affairs. South Front has a daily update about the military situation in Syria. Paul Joseph Watson is a cultural satirist. Paul Craig Roberts comments on American politics. I've already linked "A Century of Self" about the push towards individualism ("progressive atomization of society") and consumerism. There was a long video about the formation of The Fed by some religious guy, but it had a tremendous amount of research into it and it REALLY opened my eyes about the role of banks ("rentier capitalists" of money and serial counterfeiters) and especially The Fed's role in driving wealth inequality. I'll see if I can find it again, but you can also read "All the President's Bankers" by Nomi Prins. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17836501-all-the-presidents-banker
s


People will have a hard time finding these sites because google and youtube no longer provide an unbiased list of "recommended content" based on your most recent views, but have decided to "curate" them for you based on their political leanings, so it is unlikely that you would come across them or some of the more extreme sites on your own. But to reiterate, I recommend The Duran. I disagree with some of their viewpoints and their occasional commentator Peter Lavelle is all sputtering, inarticulate huffiness, but they tackle a wide variety of topics across the world and always have something interesting to say.


You might think that the Maidan movement was paltry by comparison, but it was big enough and sufficiently supported by our spooks to overthrow a government. If you think THIS movement is bigger, all the more reason to be concerned that it too will be used to overthrow a government.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK



The reason this has gotten out of hand is because Barack Obama is gay.

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 4:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I meant was that the media pretending this was all rainbows and unicorn farts made it more likely that people would come out and join the protests because they thought it was all rainbows and unicorn farts, swelling the numbers.

Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? I think they see everything in black/white terms. MLK was the one changing the focus to economic justice and foreign policy, and look where it got HIM.

I sort of mentioned that. That folk who are historic enuf to know better might have looked at MLK and decided to save their own skins. But maybe they're just naturally blind.
Quote:

The people that I mentioned are economists or economic commentators.

Just to round out the list, The Saker is particularly good at military analysis, especially of Europe. Pepe Escobar is a geopolitical analyst specially good with Middle Eastern affairs. South Front has a daily update about the military situation in Syria. Paul Joseph Watson is a cultural satirist. Paul Craig Roberts comments on American politics. I've already linked "A Century of Self" about the push towards individualism ("progressive atomization of society") and consumerism. There was a long video about the formation of The Fed by some religious guy, but it had a tremendous amount of research into it and it REALLY opened my eyes about the role of banks ("rentier capitalists" of money and serial counterfeiters) and especially The Fed's role in driving wealth inequality. I'll see if I can find it again, but you can also read "All the President's Bankers" by Nomi Prins. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17836501-all-the-presidents-banker
s


People will have a hard time finding these sites because google and youtube no longer provide an unbiased list of "recommended content" based on your most recent views, but have decided to "curate" them for you based on their political leanings, so it is unlikely that you would come across them or some of the more extreme sites on your own. But to reiterate, I recommend The Duran. I disagree with some of their viewpoints and their occasional commentator Peter Lavelle is all sputtering, inarticulate huffiness, but they tackle a wide variety of topics across the world and always have something interesting to say.

I don't access them all, but enough to get the drift. While it's true everyone could always learn more, I don't think I need to have my eyes opened to the vista. I still fault presumptive civil right leaders for not bringing up the economic topic. The silence is deafening from the people who might be most useful to the BLM movement.
Quote:



You might think that the Maidan movement was paltry by comparison, but it was big enough and sufficiently supported by our spooks to overthrow a government. If you think THIS movement is bigger, all the more reason to be concerned that it too will be used to overthrow a government.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

Hmmm ... I think this movement is too big to be hastily steered on the QT. But needs consideration.

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 4:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If all you're doing is trying to create chaos then it doesn't need to be directed.

But it's ridiculously easy to "direct" Americans. I'm sure you can come up with a lot of recent examples, everything from RUSSIA RUSSIA! to the iPhone

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 5:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yeah, it's true - many Americans are SUPER gullible.

Though WHO they believe is remarkably flexible! They believed the dubya administration when it came to WMDs, and then they believed 'sources' when it came to RUSSIA!RUSSIA!RUSSIA! Well, many people of the hyperventilating never-Trumpers type did.


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Saturday, June 6, 2020 5:55 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Yeah, it's true - many Americans are SUPER gullible.

Though WHO they believe is remarkably flexible! They believed the dubya administration when it came to WMDs, and then they believed 'sources' when it came to RUSSIA!RUSSIA!RUSSIA! Well, many people of the hyperventilating never-Trumpers type did.




I agree, but Barack Obama is still gay...he likes sex with men

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I think The Coomph panic showed that a lot of people who thought they weren't gullible were in fact very gullible.

Everybody's got something they're afraid of.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 6, 2020 10:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Personally, I don't credit the word of unnamed 'sources', even if there are a lot of unnamed 'sources', even - or especially if - those unnamed 'sources' belong to a government. I don't credit anything that lacks evidence. I especially don't credit the unevidenced bullshit of proven habitual liars and trolls.

I DO look for evidence, especially for a wide variety of data from globally disparate researchers and investigators, beholden to, on the whole, no one government or set of restrictions, requirements, or expectations.

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Sunday, June 7, 2020 6:15 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Friday, July 3, 2020 5:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.



And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.

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Friday, July 3, 2020 6:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Dems are so afraid they're going to lose the black vote to Trump in November they want to bring out the printing press.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, July 3, 2020 7:06 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.



And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.



Your 15th Amendment did nothing for me and mine KIKI. That was written in 1870.

Native Americans could have citizenship and voting rights in 1887 with the DAWES ACT but that said that we had to give up our tribal claims. No more Crow, Cheyenne, Lakota, Apache, Hopi, Zuni, Mandan, Shoshoni, Chickasaw, Cherokee or any other tribe you can name in the US.

Native Americans weren't granted citizenship until 1924 with the Citizenship Act which then granted us voting rights.

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Friday, July 3, 2020 7:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?



As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)

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Friday, July 3, 2020 10:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?/b]



It's 2020. The US Government has already done all of those things. In many cases today, blacks are more equal than whites.

I only listen to black people who share that opinion. There are a lot of them, but the Legacy Media rarely ever lets them speak and pretends they don't exist. Even FOX news only lets a few token pets of theirs ever speak. Sometimes I suspect that's only so the Left and the rest of the Legacy Media can call them Uncle Toms and race traitors and put a face to those ideas.

Independent content creation is where it is at, and the fact that there are a lot of black folk online that don't tow the Democrat line of eternal victimhood for handouts and that are insulted and disgusted by Democrats and the Legacy Media's behavior is just another of infinite reasons why we cannot allow Big Tech censorship. Their voices cannot be silenced.



I said it weeks ago that the Left has been handing out red pills by the truckload in 2020. People's eyes are opening up.

There is ZERO chance that Biden wins in November.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, July 3, 2020 11:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Y'all watching Trump?

He's killing it.



That's a little preview of what stumbling, bumbling, senile old Biden is going to have to go up against soon.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, July 4, 2020 3:40 AM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?



As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)



I understand that was referenced was about Blacks. In my opinion failure to put muscle behind those rights.

A blanket statement made about your 15th Amendment made me look up those facts Kiki.

You can use American Indian or Native American, which ever you are comfortable with. First Nations is only used in Canada or Indigenous Peoples. Though that phrase is probably used down there in higher education settings.

No, it won't happen. Too many broken treaties and spilt blood. Also no will to bring us to the table when the talk is about racism. We're still out of sight out of mind.

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Saturday, July 4, 2020 4:40 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?
As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:

I understand that was referenced was about Blacks. In my opinion failure to put muscle behind those rights.

I'm wondering what leads you to that conclusion. As far as I can tell, the only entity that worked to make equal rights a reality was the federal government. I believe the individual states were the reason for a lot of unequal treatment, with Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, anti-miscegenation laws etc.
Quote:

A blanket statement made about your 15th Amendment made me look up those facts Kiki.

You can use American Indian or Native American, which ever you are comfortable with. First Nations is only used in Canada or Indigenous Peoples. Though that phrase is probably used down there in higher education settings.

(I've read or heard First Nations a lot, though I seriously don't remember when or where. Maybe it was the decade+ of listening to CBC radio out of Toronto. It comes to mind about equally with Native American.)

Anyway, I've read enough to know that tribal lands aren't considered entirely a part of the US - there's some kind of jurisdictional barriers. And that originally tribal lands were considered like a foreign government, which is why the agreements were treaties, a thing used between countries. But the legal complications are something I've never understood. I've tried now and again to unscramble it over questions like - how can the US force an oil pipeline through tribal lands if the tribe is against it? I still don't understand the complications.
Anyway, just of interest, Black MALES got the right to vote in 1870. Women, though citizens, couldn't vote until 1920. And Native Americans became both citizens and got the right to vote in 1924.
Quote:

No, it won't happen. Too many broken treaties and spilt blood. Also no will to bring us to the table when the talk is about racism. We're still out of sight out of mind.
I'm not sure about Canada, but I feel that minority rights here are about dividing and setting one against the other, rather than trying to fulfill the promise of equality for all.

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Saturday, July 4, 2020 10:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Y'all watching Trump?

He's killing it.



That's a little preview of what stumbling, bumbling, senile old Biden is going to have to go up against soon.

Do Right, Be Right. :)




lol @ Legacy Media coverage.

The usual suspects found Trump's speech last night to be racist as usual.

Keep on red pilling everyone, idiots.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, July 4, 2020 5:32 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your point is taken, but the comments made in the House were specifically about Blacks, and, as I read it, how they're entitled to extra-special compensation from the US government because of its ... I don't know what. Failure to end slavery? Failure to provide equal Constitutional rights to Blacks? Failure to put muscle behind those equal rights for Blacks?
As for First Nations, I would be happy if the US government started addressing all those many treaties it broke, and belatedly made good on them ... or at least provided equal-value compensation of some type. That would be a Nunavut moment here is the US. (But sadly, I don't expect any of that here - not even a tiny bit.)

Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:

I understand that was referenced was about Blacks. In my opinion failure to put muscle behind those rights.

I'm wondering what leads you to that conclusion. As far as I can tell, the only entity that worked to make equal rights a reality was the federal government. I believe the individual states were the reason for a lot of unequal treatment, with Jim Crow laws, poll taxes, anti-miscegenation laws etc.
Quote:

A blanket statement made about your 15th Amendment made me look up those facts Kiki.

You can use American Indian or Native American, which ever you are comfortable with. First Nations is only used in Canada or Indigenous Peoples. Though that phrase is probably used down there in higher education settings.

(I've read or heard First Nations a lot, though I seriously don't remember when or where. Maybe it was the decade+ of listening to CBC radio out of Toronto. It comes to mind about equally with Native American.)

Anyway, I've read enough to know that tribal lands aren't considered entirely a part of the US - there's some kind of jurisdictional barriers. And that originally tribal lands were considered like a foreign government, which is why the agreements were treaties, a thing used between countries. But the legal complications are something I've never understood. I've tried now and again to unscramble it over questions like - how can the US force an oil pipeline through tribal lands if the tribe is against it? I still don't understand the complications.
Anyway, just of interest, Black MALES got the right to vote in 1870. Women, though citizens, couldn't vote until 1920. And Native Americans became both citizens and got the right to vote in 1924.
Quote:

No, it won't happen. Too many broken treaties and spilt blood. Also no will to bring us to the table when the talk is about racism. We're still out of sight out of mind.
I'm not sure about Canada, but I feel that minority rights here are about dividing and setting one against the other, rather than trying to fulfill the promise of equality for all.



I'm sorry for this post but I can't separate all that out without making a hash of it. So apologies before hand.

My understanding of the Jim Crow laws is not good and I didn't realize that each state did this on their own.

First Nations came into being used in Canada over 30years ago. Just shortly after Native American came into being used in the US.

The barrier on tribal lands is that we are considered sovereign nations on American soil. We had to be declared nations for the treaty process. The American Federal government can consult but still go through with projects on reservation land because the land is still owned by the Federal government, the land was only given to us by treaty. Tribes don't own the land they live. So, the American Federal government can do as they please.

Tribes go to court down there and up in Canada to stop projects like pipe lines. But unless a court sides with the tribes, the government wins. There are things like that happening up here in Canada right now.

Don't worry, I feel the same way about minority rights down there. Everyone is being pitted against each other.

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Saturday, July 4, 2020 6:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey Brenda - as long as you could read my post, I'm good!

And your reply came through very well!

Anyway, I really appreciate you getting back to me. And you've helped my understanding along quite a bit.

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Saturday, July 4, 2020 11:09 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Hey Brenda - as long as you could read my post, I'm good!

And your reply came through very well!

Anyway, I really appreciate you getting back to me. And you've helped my understanding along quite a bit.



Understanding your post not a problem. But I have a problem with getting the quoting right here.

Glad you could understand me too.

Always glad to be of service in helping understanding along.

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Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What is the real cause? What are the real targets?

There IS no reason. The targets are those who won in 2016. The deranged hyper far Left demand power, and this is the only way they can get it.

Shut the country down. Destroy the world's best economy. GIVE people money to do nothing, and then invent a cause to get angry over.

Add in Soros paid for goons to organize riots... The ' fun ' has already gone on too long.

Serious use of force needs to be put in play here. China and France went after legitimate protesters with far more force than the these animals have seen.

Time for the boot to fall on the ants.

Well, RapKnight fairly well nailed it, concisely, at the beginning of this thread.

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Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIGNY: I see this as "move and countermove".

They tried spying on Trump, targeting his campaign and smearing him for three years with a breathless hysterical RUSSIA!COLLUSION!DOSSIER! campaign of nonsense, which didn't work.

Now all of the secret testimony is revealing a series of deliberate lies and illegal actions by some in our spook agencies, blessed by Obama himself.

But they also used the "Russia hacked our election" lie to censor social media to save us from the scary, if nonexistent, Russian bots.

Along the way, they tried "Trump is a racist" because he openly tried to control ILLEGAL immigration (meanwhile printing photos of kids in cages taken during the Obama reign) and "Kavanaugh is a rapist", pushing the narrative of poor Christine Blasey Ford, who apparently couldn't remember which was her right foot and which was her left foot.

When that didn't catch fire, they thumped "Ukrainegate" "quid pro quo" allegation which was entirely unsupported by the telephone transcript, and then trotted out a series of biased, pre-rehearsed puppets whose testimony added not one shred of evidence to the story, in a transparently piece of hollow political theater called "sham impeachment".

Not even Trump's handling of the Covid-19 crisis shook his approval rating, and when he signed an Executive Order removing the liability shield from social media CLEARLY acting in an editorial fashion (long overdue IMHO) ...

... Riots and looting ensued across the nation and even into Europe (Europe??? WTF?) indicating that there was not only national but international coordination (because why would an American event cause Germans to "spontaneously" protest in an overabundance of outrage?), which had the M$M "explaining" and excusing the violence and pillaging and, once again blaming everything on Trump

Oh, and "mail in ballots"? Just as bad as e-voting when it comes to election fraud.

IMHO there are no coincidences in this game. With Trumps' executive order, social media, the M$M, and Soros-funded groups are going to pull out all the stops to get Trump and elect Joe Biden (or whoever the DNC inserts in Biden's place) and based on their recent history of fakery there are no limits to their lying and event-creation and America-destruction in their desire to pull off a color revolution here in the USA.

Yanno, I'm pretty pissed at Trump about some things and I was seriously thinking of not voting this election, but the more I see this crap going on, the more I just want to poke my finger in the eyes of the useful idiots and "woke" crowd who're unknowingly doing toe bidding of their overlords and masters.

Sheesh, people are stupid.


KIKI: I agree that there's been a global conspiracy of tptb to get Trump. And the more they tried, the more obvious it became. And I'm sure there still is that group of people with their same agenda.

But I'm not sure you've seen the video, which was gruesome enough to piss ANYBODY off with the least bit of empathy. People are RIGHTFULLY, RIGHTEOUSLY pissed off. There's no need to invoke some kind of fakery about that.

Yes, but what about the other roughly 999 people killed by cops every year? This isn't the first outrageous killing by police. And while those other killings sparked protests and even riots in their cities (Ferguson, BTW the whole "Hands up don't shoot" was fake) they didn't spread across the world.

Quote:

As for your idea that this is ALL orchestrated - there's no 'what' without a 'how'. How does this happen? How does a shadow group cause protests and riots to spring up in thousands if not tens of thousands of cities and towns across the US?
"Never let a good crisis go to waste" Antifa, for one. They are loosely organized but have groups in every major and medium-sized city.

Social internet groups. The time is ripe: Schools are closed, there is no summer school, universities are doing online only, and a lot of the summer McJobs that would have kept some young people busy are also closed.

And of course the M$M. This story would hve died an inglorious death if they had not dierted their nonstop Covid-19 coverage to this.

I would say FOLLOW THE MONEY. But that needs investigation.

Quote:

So no, it's not ALL orchestrated.
No, but some groups are extremely pre-prepared to weaponize whatever event pops up.

Quote:

And finally, yanno - sometimes shit happens. And sometimes presidents really step into the shit with their own responses. Soros didn't invent Trump's god-awful response to either SARS-COV-2 or the protests. Those events really did expose his serious shortcomings.
I fault Trump for his Covid-19 response. But as it turns out, there is more to controlling Covid-19 than lockdowns, so I fault him ... and the CDC, and WHO ... for not having a "plan B" in place.

AFA Trump's response to the protests ... I think the National Guard should have jumped in with both boots to quell the looting and destruction. The same scenario played out over and over ... "It started out peaceful, but ..."

Then violent elements activated and opportunistic looters showed up. I was watching live coverage, and while they were interviewing a few people in Santa Monica ... residents and shopkeepers who were terrorized by the looting and violence... during the whole 10-minute interview they were showing on split screen looters in Long Beach pillaging a Walgreens and several other stores in a small strip mall. These looters were embedded in a PEACEFUL march, they would simply peel off from the crowd to duck into the broken-open stores, sometimes leaving a lookout, or (towards the end of the event) driving up in cars to haul stuff away. The moment the sirens sounded you could see them literally drop their goods, stuff their hand in their pockets and walk away.

The reason why it took LB police so long to react is because they were also busy defending police HQ.

In other cases, people shoot from a crowd of largely peaceful protesters. In such a situation, you can't separate the sheep from the goats, EVERYONE needs to clear the streets.

I compare these protests (which are more like flashmobs) unfavorably to the Gilets Jaunes, who had good control of the elements in their protests.

But I have to ask: WHY NOW? WHY SO BIG? WHY INTERNATIONAL? Especially the "international" part ... that to me points to a less-than-spontaneous reaction.

Quote:

Do I think Biden is better? Jeeze louise, the guy's the water boy for the global evil and corrupt. But I don't have to be for one to be against the other. And you can take that in either direction.

When I see who is arranged against Trump and the depths to which they will go, I know which side I'm on.

I take it for granted that we can all agree that there should be no more prejudice and discrimination for, or against, anyone.* IMHO that is a SETTLED ISSUE. The same goes for police violence against civilians. Who could possibly be be FOR it? (BTW, there is some speculation that the cop who killed George Floyd was involved in some kind of money laundering operation at the club where he worked for 17 years as security, along with George Floyd who had only worked there for a year, and that maybe Floyd ... who was found with a counterfeit $20 on him, had stumbled onto this operation, and that maybe this was not as undirected and random killing as was thought. There is probably a lot more to this story than we know.)

Instead of rioting and protesting, we should be working together to implement the policy changes that will make police accountability possible, even if it means replacing the entire City Hall, City Council, and police leadership and half of the police force to do it. I don't think you need to get anyone "on side" on these issues if you frame it right. But right now, all that is happening is pitting blacks against whites again, and young against old again, and small storekeepers against "the people" again when the real source of the problem is elsewhere.

*BTW SIX, it is possible to have discrimination both FOR and AGAINST the same group of people operating at the same time. That goes for white males who still have a more positive immediate response than - say- black males, at the same time that white hetero males are not a "protected class" under anti-discrimination laws and may still suffer from prejudice in family court. Being a white male is a mixed bag, just as being a black trans is a mixed bag.

I just firmly believe that we should all be judged on the same criteria as anyone else, and stop focusing on people as categories (identity politics). We should have a accountability applied at the individual level, to everyone, from Jeff Bezos to the most disadvantaged homeless person. Maybe too much to ask, but an ideal worth working towards.

Interesting dynamic partly mentioned here. Forgotten by others.

The reasons for adequate response to Wuhan Coronavirus included how unprepared hospitals, medical equipment, PPE, testing labs were to deal with such a large scale need.
The same prep, logistics, sense should also be applied to the policing of looters, rioters, rapists, murderers among the BLM and Antifags groups. The LB cops had to concentrate on defending their central command building. This is the reason for PERMITS for Protests, and why most places require PERMITS to legally assemble/protest. There are not enough police resources to spread out to entire mobs, in multiple locations.
Seems many have forgotten these common sense concerns. Where is the Permit to Loot? The Permit to Riot? The Permit to shut down the Interstate? The Permit to Rape? The Permit to Murder? The Permit for Arson? The Permit to destroy famous Democrat Statues?

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Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.


And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.

Your 15th Amendment did nothing for me and mine KIKI. That was written in 1870.

Native Americans could have citizenship and voting rights in 1887 with the DAWES ACT but that said that we had to give up our tribal claims. No more Crow, Cheyenne, Lakota, Apache, Hopi, Zuni, Mandan, Shoshoni, Chickasaw, Cherokee or any other tribe you can name in the US.

Native Americans weren't granted citizenship until 1924 with the Citizenship Act which then granted us voting rights.

In America, I believe all Native Tribes who chose to remain are defined as Sovereign Nations - at least all of the ones in Wisconsin that I know of seem to be.

In 1870, just following the Civil War, I don't think U.S. Citizens were allowed to have Dual Citizenship. Citizens had their Citizenship status from their State - there was no Federal Citizenship at that time. The Union was concerned about Seditionists, Confederates, and other malcontents wandering around causing trouble within the Reunited States, and Citizens who insisted loyalty to a separate Sovereign Nation swere not allowed, as I recall. Native Americans were provided their own choice, to freely choose to become a member of a State (which were still being formed back then), or to remain a subject of one of the Sovereign Nations - but not both. This wasn't against Natives, it was applied to everybody equally, as I understand.

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Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:54 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"The American Government Still Owes A Debt": Reparations Bill Gaining Steam In House

The American GOVERNMENT still owes a debt? Would that be the government that freed the slaves (13th amendment)? Wrote full rights into the Constitution (14th amendment)? Guaranteed former slaves and people of any 'race' full voting rights (15th amendment)? Integrated schools? Passed and enforced the Voting Rights Act to make sure that the theoretical right to vote was an actual one?

You mean after freeing slaves and enshrining the rights of all 'races', THAT American government 'owes' Blacks something? What more could it possibly have done?

Sigh.

People without a clue.


And, yeah, go for it, Nancy. And watch the dems dwindle into nothingness.

Your 15th Amendment did nothing for me and mine KIKI. That was written in 1870.

Native Americans could have citizenship and voting rights in 1887 with the DAWES ACT but that said that we had to give up our tribal claims. No more Crow, Cheyenne, Lakota, Apache, Hopi, Zuni, Mandan, Shoshoni, Chickasaw, Cherokee or any other tribe you can name in the US.

Native Americans weren't granted citizenship until 1924 with the Citizenship Act which then granted us voting rights.

In America, I believe all Native Tribes who chose to remain are defined as Sovereign Nations - at least all of the ones in Wisconsin that I know of seem to be.

In 1870, just following the Civil War, I don't think U.S. Citizens were allowed to have Dual Citizenship. Citizens had their Citizenship status from their State - there was no Federal Citizenship at that time. The Union was concerned about Seditionists, Confederates, and other malcontents wandering around causing trouble within the Reunited States, and Citizens who insisted loyalty to a separate Sovereign Nation swere not allowed, as I recall. Native Americans were provided their own choice, to freely choose to become a member of a State (which were still being formed back then), or to remain a subject of one of the Sovereign Nations - but not both. This wasn't against Natives, it was applied to everybody equally, as I understand.



All tribes anywhere in the US, I think are considered Sovereign Nations to my understanding. Doesn't matter the state.

I can't see it that way. That time was also the beginning of the reservation system. So to me the DAWES ACT is and or was just one more way to strip us of our identity.

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