REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The non-existent Trump economic miracle.

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, October 26, 2020 13:08
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Thursday, October 15, 2020 4:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Goodbye Middle Class: Half Of All American Workers Made Less Than $34,248.45 Last Year

If you are making less than $3,000 a month, you have plenty of company, because about half of the country is in the exact same boat. The Social Security Administration just released new wage statistics for 2019, and they are pretty startling. To me, the most alarming thing in the entire report is the fact that the median yearly wage was just $34,248.45 last year. In other words, half of all American workers made less than $34,248.45 in 2019, and half of all American workers made more than $34,248.45. That isn’t a whole lot of money. In fact, when you divide $34,248.45 by 12 you get just $2,854.05. Needless to say, it is not easy to survive in America today on just $2,854.05 a month, and this may help to explain why we have been seeing so many people fall out of the middle class in recent years.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/goodbye-middle-class-half-
of-all-american-workers-made-less-than-34248-45-last-year





Now, that measure of central tendency - 'the median' - is only slightly less useless in a highly skewed distribution than 'the average'. The number one really wants to see would be 'the mode'. But nobody reports that because it would leave high-income earners out of the picture entirely and paint too accurate a picture of the American workers.

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Friday, October 16, 2020 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Goodbye Middle Class: Half Of All American Workers Made Less Than $34,248.45 Last Year . . . this may help to explain why we have been seeing so many people fall out of the middle class in recent years.

Has America always been a rich nation with many poor people? Yes, it has.

And, 1kiki, don't act surprised that the top 1% have figured out how to claw back some of the wages paid to the middleclass. There is only one thing to stop the top 1% . . . the government. But the 1% can control the government because the top 50% of voters, who are doing well enough, gave control to government officials who very loudly declare their allegiance to the 1% who are the top Capitalists.

You can complain, 1kiki, but America won't improve for the bottom 50% of voters as long as voters in the top 50% of wealth or income keep electing officials who will always do what is best for voters in the top 1% of wealth or income. From my position in the top 1% I'm personally thankful that the lower 99% don't clearly comprehend what is so obviously going on because if they did, my taxes would increase and my business would have more limits on what I can do with it.

The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country
https://web.archive.org/web/20170310142823/https://qz.com/879092/the-u
s-doesnt-look-like-a-developed-country
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 16, 2020 10:28 AM

REAVERFAN






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Friday, October 16, 2020 11:19 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Ever heard of Speedy Cash? www.speedycash.com/

They charge 729% interest on Texas loans. www.speedycash.com/rates-and-terms/texas

In a properly run country, that interest rate would get the CEO of Speedy Cash arrested.

In Massachusetts, Speedy Cash is not allowed to operate. The middle class can thank their Senator, Democrat Elizabeth Warren, for pointing out that Speedy Cash is run by crooks. In Texas, GOP Senators John Cornyn and Ted Cruz can see no problem, and never will, with how this company operates. www.speedycash.com/rates-and-terms/massachusetts

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 16, 2020 11:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
This is Alex Smith. He died this year at age 26 because he couldn't afford insulin in America.

Back in 1996, when Eli Lilly’s Humalog first came out, the price for a 1-month supply of insulin was $21. But now 29.3 million patients are paying anywhere from $300 to $800+ a month for their necessary insulin. So, why has the price of insulin increased so much over the years? The world may never know since pharmaceutical companies continue to hold their tongue when asked about it.

www.ajmc.com/view/the-deadly-costs-of-insulin

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 16, 2020 12:24 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Desperate Trump tries to buy Senior votes with Chump change:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trumps-election-eve-drug-disco
unts-for-seniors-get-snagged/ar-BB1a4kHz


Trump's election-eve drug discounts for seniors get snagged

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s plan to mail millions of seniors a $200 prescription savings card has hit legal and budget roadblocks, making it unlikely the government can carry it out before Election Day.

Democratic lawmakers have raised questions about whether the administration has the authority to order on its own billions of dollars in Medicare spending for what the Democrats say are political reasons. Administration and congressional officials say such questions have bogged down review of the plan by agencies, including the Department of Health and Human Services, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and the White House Office of Management and Budget.

A White House official had no comment on the status of the prescription cards, which Trump announced with a flourish last month during a health care speech in Charlotte, N.C.

The Medicare agency, or CMS, said in a statement: “We know that many seniors struggle to afford their medication and because of these high costs may forgo treatment. The administration is committed to lowering out-of-pocket costs for our nation’s seniors. We will provide more information about the prescription drug cards soon.”

One administration official said the odds are 75-25 the plan will not happen. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss back-and-forth internal deliberations.

Earlier this month, Reps. Frank Pallone, D-N.J., Richard Neal, D-Mass, and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., questioned the legality of Trump's plan, saying in a letter to HHS Secretary Alex Azar that “the president now appears to be attempting to buy votes just weeks before the election using taxpayer dollars.”

The lawmakers' objections appear to have hit a nerve in the administration. Among them:

— The White House asserted that Medicare could legally send out the discount cards under its authority to conduct “demonstration programs” testing new ideas. The $200 would test if extra cash made seniors more likely to stay on their medications and avoid costly hospitalizations. But sending cards to nearly all Medicare recipients is not a test, the lawmakers said. For example, there wouldn't be a control group against which to measure any results. Therefore, such a mass mailing would not meet legal standards for a Medicare demonstration program testing new ideas.

— The cost to taxpayers has been estimated as high as $7.8 billion, not counting administrative expenses. The money would come from Medicare's Supplemental Medical Insurance Trust Fund. But spending for the cards has not been authorized by Congress, which has the power of the purse. A congressional official said that if the Trump administration approves the plan, it in effect would create a budgetary “trap door” through which future administrations could try to spend billions of dollars without congressional oversight. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal analysis.

When Trump announced the plan as part of a Sep. 24 speech calling attention to his health care agenda, it seemed like the discount cards were about to go in the mail. People wondered if they would bear the presidents' name.

The cards would allow seniors to save $200 off their prescription copays. Trump initially said 33 million Medicare recipients would get the cards, but administration and congressional officials said the latest estimate is 39 million.

“Nobody has seen this before,” the president said, with trademark salesmanship. “These cards are incredible. The cards will be mailed out in coming weeks.

“I will always take care of our wonderful senior citizens,” Trump added. “Joe Biden won’t be doing this.”

The plan came as a surprise to rank-and-file officials at HHS and CMS who were expected to carry it out, said the administration official, adding that it was directed by the White House.

The agencies are trying to move ahead on Trump's plan, but the official said it first has to pass the legal and procedural checks that would apply to any similar idea.

Tricia Neuman, a Medicare expert with the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation, said the cards would help a lot of people a little bit but that doesn't address the underlying problem of high prescription drug costs.

“It would do relatively little for seniors with truly catastrophic prescription drug expenses,” she said.

Trump long ago backed off his 2016 campaign idea for Medicare to negotiate drug prices, an approach his Democratic rival Biden is now pushing.

But he supported a bipartisan Senate bill that would have capped out-of-pocket costs for Medicare recipients and required rebates if drugmakers raised prices above inflation.

Senior Republican senators were cool to the legislation, though, and Democrats coalesced around House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's more ambitious bill empowering Medicare to negotiate prices. Ultimately, nothing passed Congress.

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Friday, October 16, 2020 1:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

AFA healthcare costs in the USA ... has anyone wondered why they're SO HIGH in the USA, compared to other nations? Yanno, not just that coverage is incomplete, but that it soaks up 18% of our GDP and we STILL have bad healthcare?

I certainly have. Solve that conundrum, and you've got the healthcare crisis figured out.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, October 16, 2020 1:30 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

AFA healthcare costs in the USA ... has anyone wondered why they're SO HIGH in the USA, compared to other nations? Yanno, not just that coverage is incomplete, but that it soaks up 18% of our GDP and we STILL have bad healthcare?

I certainly have. Solve that conundrum, and you've got the healthcare crisis figured out.

There is no conundrum, no confusion about why American healthcare is expensive compared to other countries.

American healthcare provider prices are incredibly high. The way to rein in the cost of healthcare services is by targeting the massive variation in providers’ prices. We can do that by making prices more transparent, making these markets more dynamic, and really blunting the monopoly power that a lot of large healthcare providers have, which has allowed them to raise prices.

In making these changes, there are certainly roles for insurance companies, employers, and patients, but frankly, the largest role is for the federal government. Right now, for a hospital to get paid by Medicare it has to report quality data. I think hospitals should also be required to report their prices.

And critically, we need antitrust enforcement. We have to stop some of the extraordinary mergers that have been occurring with rapidly increasing frequency over the last 10 to 15 years. That’s what is giving hospitals more market power and allowing them to extract higher prices.

Prices vary tremendously across the U.S. and within geographic areas. Across the country, the price of a knee replacement can vary by up to a factor of 17—the most expensive hospital is 17 times as expensive as the least expensive hospital. Within geographic areas, that can be, for knee replacements, up to a factor of eight. Lower-limb MRIs, when you set aside the reading of the MRI, don’t have much quality variation, yet, as an example, the most expensive hospital in Miami is charging nine times as much for an MRI as the cheapest provider.

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/why-is-healthcare-so-expensive

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 16, 2020 3:00 PM

REAVERFAN


Or, we could just have nationalized free healthcare like every other country in the 1st world.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-a
gree-medicare-for-all-saves-money




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Friday, October 16, 2020 3:13 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Or, we could just have nationalized free healthcare like every other country in the 1st world.

"That's Communism!"

I could call Ted Cruz or John Cornyn, my US Senators, to tell me why that can't be done, but it was easier to ask a few Trump lovers at work. Their answers ranged from "That's Socialized Medicine" to "We are not Canadians" to "It would destroy America!"

As long as Republicans have the power, they will never allow free healthcare.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 16, 2020 3:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:


And he probably voted for Obama, so that he could have his healtjh care taken away.

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Friday, October 16, 2020 3:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Goodbye Middle Class: Half Of All American Workers Made Less Than $34,248.45 Last Year

If you are making less than $3,000 a month, you have plenty of company, because about half of the country is in the exact same boat. The Social Security Administration just released new wage statistics for 2019, and they are pretty startling. To me, the most alarming thing in the entire report is the fact that the median yearly wage was just $34,248.45 last year. In other words, half of all American workers made less than $34,248.45 in 2019, and half of all American workers made more than $34,248.45. That isn’t a whole lot of money. In fact, when you divide $34,248.45 by 12 you get just $2,854.05. Needless to say, it is not easy to survive in America today on just $2,854.05 a month, and this may help to explain why we have been seeing so many people fall out of the middle class in recent years.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/goodbye-middle-class-half-
of-all-american-workers-made-less-than-34248-45-last-year





Now, that measure of central tendency - 'the median' - is only slightly less useless in a highly skewed distribution than 'the average'. The number one really wants to see would be 'the mode'. But nobody reports that because it would leave high-income earners out of the picture entirely and paint too accurate a picture of the American workers.

That linky crashes my browser, so it cannot be read.

f you are making less than $3,000 a month, you have plenty of company, because about half of the country is in the exact same boat. The Social Security Administration just released new wage statistics for 2019, and they are pretty startling. To me, the most alarming thing in the entire report is the fact that the median yearly wage was just $34,248.45 last year. In other words, half of all American workers made less than $34,248.45 in 2019, and half of all American workers made more than $34,248.45. That isn’t a whole lot of money. In fact, when you divide $34,248.45 by 12 you get just $2,854.05. Needless to say, it is not easy to survive in America today on just $2,854.05 a month, and this may help to explain why we have been seeing so many people fall out of the middle class in recent years.

And of course all of the figures that I am sharing with you in this article are just for 2019. This year, we have seen more than 63 million Americans file new claims for unemployment benefits as the U.S. economy has imploded during this pandemic, and so the final wage numbers for 2020 could be quite a bit worse than the numbers for 2019 were. Please keep that in mind as you go through the rest of this article.

Once upon a time in America, a single income could easily support a middle class household in most cases, but those days are long gone.

The cost of living has been rising far faster than our paychecks have, and as a result many Americans have been working themselves to the bone just to survive financially from month to month.

To give you an idea of just how bad things have gotten, I would like to share with you some key numbers from the report that the Social Security Administration just released…

-32.26 percent of American workers made less than $20,000 last year.

-44.79 percent of American workers made less than $30,000 last year.

-56.46 percent of American workers made less than $40,000 last year.

-65.91 percent of American workers made less than $50,000 last year.

Today, the poverty level for a household of five in the United States is $30,680.

That means that close to half of all workers in this country do not even make enough to get a family of five above the poverty level.

Wow.

There are tens of millions of Americans that are referred to as “the working poor” because they are living in poverty even though they are employed and are working extremely hard. Many of you that are reading this article know exactly what I am talking about. Some of you are working way more than 40 hours a week, and yet there never seems to be enough money at the end of the month.

Sadly, the truth is that our system has evolved in a manner that makes it almost impossible for most Americans to ever build up much wealth.

If you are making the median monthly wage of just $2,854.05, there simply is not going to be much left over after all of the bills are paid. First of all, you are going to need some place to live. In the middle of the country you may be able to find something habitable for under $1,000 a month, but in most of our major metropolitan areas that simply is not going to be realistic.

Secondly, you are going to need to pay your utility bills. If you can keep the combined cost of your power, water, phone, television and Internet bills to about $250 a month, you are doing quite well.

Thirdly, you will need a vehicle in order to get around, and these days it is hard to buy or lease a vehicle for less than $300 a month. In addition, you will also need insurance, and that will set you back even more.

Fourthly, you will need health insurance. If you are young and single, maybe you can find a plan for just a few hundred dollars a month, but most Americans pay far more.

Fifthly, you will probably want to eat, and that will cost you several hundred dollars a month as well.

At this point almost all of your money is already gone, and there are so many expenses that I haven’t even mentioned yet.

And of course you never even started with $2,854.05 in the first place, because all sorts of taxes were taken out of your paycheck before you even got it.

Are you starting to understand why so many families in America are deeply, deeply struggling today?

We have an economy that works for those at the very top of the food chain, but pretty much everyone else is desperately trying to stay afloat.

And now we have entered an economic downturn during which tens of millions of Americans have lost their jobs. According to John Williams of shadowstats.com, if honest numbers were being used the real unemployment rate in the U.S. would be 26.9 percent right now, and that would rival the worst levels that we witnessed during the Great Depression of the 1930s.

Others have come up with similar numbers. For example, Axios is reporting that the “true unemployment rate” in the United States is currently 26.1 percent…

A person who is looking for a full-time job that pays a living wage — but who can’t find one — is unemployed. If you accept that definition, the true unemployment rate in the U.S. is a stunning 26.1%, according to an important new dataset shared exclusively with “Axios on HBO.”

No matter how you want to crunch the numbers, everyone should be able to agree that millions upon millions of Americans are really hurting financially and are deeply concerned about the future.

And they have good reason to be concerned about the future, because our economic system is in the process of imploding.

For decades, the greatest debt bubble in the history of the world allowed us to enjoy a level of debt-fueled prosperity that was far greater than we actually deserved.

Now the party is ending, and our society is going to experience an enormous amount of pain as everything changes.



And the release:
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2019

Wage Statistics for 2019
Enter another year?
Year must be after 1990


Automatic increases

Development of the AWI


The national average wage index (AWI) is based on compensation (wages, tips, and the like) subject to Federal income taxes, as reported by employers on Forms W-2. Beginning with the AWI for 1991, compensation includes contributions to deferred compensation plans, but excludes certain distributions from plans where the distributions are included in the reported compensation subject to income taxes. We call the result of including contributions, and excluding certain distributions, net compensation. The table below summarizes the components of net compensation for 2019.

Net compensation components for 2019 Compensation subject to Federal income taxes $8,450,415,153,954.09
Deferred compensation plan
Contributionsa
Distributionsb
+ 343,611,955,265.42
- 3,110,591,919.92
Net compensation 8,790,916,517,299.59
a Wages on which contributions were paid by 65,263,063 workers.
b Distributions, to the extent included in reported wages (see text above), paid to 63,702 workers.

The "raw" average wage, computed as net compensation divided by the number of wage earners, is $8,790,916,517,299.59 divided by 169,328,746, or $51,916.27. Based on data in the table below, about 67.5 percent of wage earners had net compensation less than or equal to the $51,916.27 raw average wage. By definition, 50 percent of wage earners had net compensation less than or equal to the median wage, which is estimated to be $34,248.45 for 2019.

Distribution of wage earners by level of net compensation
Wage earners Net compensation
Net compensation interval
Number
Cumulative number
Percent of total Aggregate amount Average amount
$0.01 — 4,999.99 20,180,756 20,180,756 11.91809 $42,398,751,508.46 $2,100.95
5,000.00 — 9,999.99 12,620,757 32,801,513 19.37150 93,403,927,820.81 7,400.82
10,000.00 — 14,999.99 11,212,763 44,014,276 25.99339 139,693,714,014.64 12,458.46
15,000.00 — 19,999.99 10,614,004 54,628,280 32.26167 185,421,100,761.32 17,469.48
20,000.00 — 24,999.99 10,612,653 65,240,933 38.52915 238,899,741,639.66 22,510.84
25,000.00 — 29,999.99 10,602,339 75,843,272 44.79055 291,376,880,023.01 27,482.32
30,000.00 — 34,999.99 10,316,907 86,160,179 50.88337 334,810,311,717.47 32,452.59
35,000.00 — 39,999.99 9,448,830 95,609,009 56.46354 353,852,755,698.85 37,449.37
40,000.00 — 44,999.99 8,439,146 104,048,155 61.44743 358,126,695,793.22 42,436.37
45,000.00 — 49,999.99 7,564,387 111,612,542 65.91470 358,950,447,866.43 47,452.68
50,000.00 — 54,999.99 6,733,910 118,346,452 69.89153 353,057,877,091.00 52,429.85
55,000.00 — 59,999.99 5,837,407 124,183,859 73.33891 335,292,879,657.69 57,438.67
60,000.00 — 64,999.99 5,136,653 129,320,512 76.37245 320,594,604,507.08 62,413.13
65,000.00 — 69,999.99 4,436,902 133,757,414 78.99274 299,169,883,571.63 67,427.65
70,000.00 — 74,999.99 3,868,945 137,626,359 81.27761 280,221,355,953.82 72,428.36
75,000.00 — 79,999.99 3,375,949 141,002,308 83.27134 261,412,912,760.96 77,433.90
80,000.00 — 84,999.99 2,932,876 143,935,184 85.00340 241,782,416,141.03 82,438.68
85,000.00 — 89,999.99 2,548,145 146,483,329 86.50825 222,801,818,802.64 87,436.87
90,000.00 — 94,999.99 2,236,451 148,719,780 87.82902 206,702,045,393.86 92,424.13
95,000.00 — 99,999.99 1,960,680 150,680,460 88.98693 191,048,926,022.63 97,440.14
100,000.00 — 104,999.99 1,723,900 152,404,360 90.00501 176,571,330,886.41 102,425.51
105,000.00 — 109,999.99 1,502,766 153,907,126 90.89250 161,462,988,311.44 107,443.87
110,000.00 — 114,999.99 1,334,627 155,241,753 91.68068 150,073,795,017.04 112,446.25
115,000.00 — 119,999.99 1,192,265 156,434,018 92.38480 140,039,619,147.31 117,456.79
120,000.00 — 124,999.99 1,079,146 157,513,164 93.02211 132,105,021,182.52 122,416.26
125,000.00 — 129,999.99 953,532 158,466,696 93.58523 121,518,382,947.90 127,440.28
130,000.00 — 134,999.99 863,097 159,329,793 94.09495 114,290,111,836.49 132,418.62
135,000.00 — 139,999.99 757,088 160,086,881 94.54206 104,055,443,862.26 137,441.68
140,000.00 — 144,999.99 684,938 160,771,819 94.94656 97,563,489,655.33 142,441.34
145,000.00 — 149,999.99 614,234 161,386,053 95.30931 90,579,055,075.61 147,466.69
150,000.00 — 154,999.99 557,755 161,943,808 95.63870 85,000,700,786.43 152,397.92
155,000.00 — 159,999.99 501,442 162,445,250 95.93483 78,948,350,865.75 157,442.64
160,000.00 — 164,999.99 452,218 162,897,468 96.20190 73,456,502,445.52 162,436.04
165,000.00 — 169,999.99 400,981 163,298,449 96.43870 67,140,920,815.81 167,441.65
170,000.00 — 174,999.99 356,624 163,655,073 96.64931 61,500,040,556.19 172,450.65
175,000.00 — 179,999.99 325,552 163,980,625 96.84158 57,763,565,645.91 177,432.69
180,000.00 — 184,999.99 301,040 164,281,665 97.01936 54,913,565,086.04 182,412.85
185,000.00 — 189,999.99 271,168 164,552,833 97.17950 50,831,994,344.33 187,455.73
190,000.00 — 194,999.99 249,352 164,802,185 97.32676 47,987,162,982.87 192,447.48
195,000.00 — 199,999.99 233,434 165,035,619 97.46462 46,099,240,689.46 197,482.97
200,000.00 — 249,999.99 1,565,338 166,600,957 98.38906 347,514,233,881.24 222,005.88
250,000.00 — 299,999.99 845,380 167,446,337 98.88831 230,637,633,049.67 272,821.26
300,000.00 — 349,999.99 512,132 167,958,469 99.19076 165,350,930,492.18 322,867.80
350,000.00 — 399,999.99 331,121 168,289,590 99.38631 123,595,498,874.62 373,263.85
400,000.00 — 449,999.99 226,094 168,515,684 99.51983 95,734,430,406.89 423,427.56
450,000.00 — 499,999.99 160,287 168,675,971 99.61449 75,933,234,227.24 473,732.96
500,000.00 — 999,999.99 486,429 169,162,400 99.90176 322,411,677,456.50 662,813.44
1,000,000.00 — 1,499,999.99 85,719 169,248,119 99.95238 102,889,471,849.80 1,200,311.15
1,500,000.00 — 1,999,999.99 30,324 169,278,443 99.97029 52,025,359,000.35 1,715,649.62
2,000,000.00 — 2,499,999.99 14,961 169,293,404 99.97913 33,272,501,023.37 2,223,949.00
2,500,000.00 — 2,999,999.99 8,652 169,302,056 99.98424 23,594,783,255.79 2,727,090.07
3,000,000.00 — 3,499,999.99 5,680 169,307,736 99.98759 18,375,364,734.24 3,235,099.43
3,500,000.00 — 3,999,999.99 3,852 169,311,588 99.98987 14,395,150,131.90 3,737,058.71
4,000,000.00 — 4,499,999.99 2,905 169,314,493 99.99158 12,300,626,861.58 4,234,294.96
4,500,000.00 — 4,999,999.99 2,088 169,316,581 99.99282 9,895,334,116.47 4,739,144.69
5,000,000.00 — 9,999,999.99 8,141 169,324,722 99.99762 55,348,040,520.40 6,798,678.36
10,000,000.00 — 19,999,999.99 2,787 169,327,509 99.99927 37,714,689,147.31 13,532,360.66
20,000,000.00 — 49,999,999.99 1,015 169,328,524 99.99987 29,203,255,477.67 28,771,680.27
50,000,000.00 and over 222 169,328,746 100.00000 19,803,973,905.54 89,207,089.66


That table shows 169 million wage earners.

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Friday, October 16, 2020 5:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And he probably voted for Obama, so that he could have his health care taken away.

The story says Alec Smith was a Republican and a Trump voter.
www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/01/641615877/insulins-high-c
ost-leads-to-lethal-rationing


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 16, 2020 5:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN
And the release:
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2019
That table shows 169 million wage earners.

From the Social Security Administration table, 50.88% of wage earners will earn less than $35,000 per year. Let us look at only that 50.88%.

Why America is the World’s First Poor Rich Country
https://eand.co/why-america-is-the-worlds-first-poor-rich-country-17f5
a80e444a


The average American has a relatively high income, that of a person in a nominally rich country. Only his income does not go very far. Most of it is eaten up by attempting to afford the basics of life. We’ve already seen how steep healthcare costs are. But then there is education. There is transport. There is interest and rent. There is media and communications. There is childcare and elderly care. All these things reduce the average American to constantly living right at the edge of ruin — one paycheck away from penury, one emergency away from losing it all.

But this isn’t true for America’s peers. In Europe, Canada, and even Australia, society invests in all these things — and the costs of basic necessities societies don’t provide are regulated. For example, I pay $50 dollars for broadband and TV in London — but $200 for the same thing in New York — yet in London, I get vastly more and better media for my money (even including, yes, American junk like Ancient Aliens). That’s regulation at work. And when basic goods like healthcare or elderly care or education are provided and managed at a social scale, that is when they are cheapest, and often of the best quality, too. Hence, healthcare costs far less in London, Paris, or Geneva — and life expectancy is longer, too.

So if you are earning $50k in America, it is a very different thing than earning $50k in France, Germany, or Sweden — in America, you must pay steeply for the basics of life, for basic necessities. Thus, incomes stretch much further in other countries, which enjoy a vastly higher quality of life, even though people there earn roughly the same amount, because they pay vastly less for basic necessities. Americans are rich, but only nominally — their money doesn’t buy nearly as much as their peers does, where it matters and counts most, for the basics of life.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Or, we could just have nationalized free healthcare like every other country in the 1st world.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-a
gree-medicare-for-all-saves-money




But that's not true. "every other country" does NOT have nationalized free healthcare.

Canada has single payer, where the government cuts out the insurers and pays (private) healthcare providers directly.

France's medical workers, OTOH, are a mixture of public (working for government) and private (paid by government). Public insurance is available to all, as is private insurance, but whether you choose public or private insurance, you MUST have insurance. It is mandatory.

Australia, too, has a mixture of public/private healthcare, paid for by government, but because public healthcare is more cost-effective the private entities are being swamped out.

In Britain, healthcare is funded by taxes, not insurance, and healthcare providers work directly for the government. That is the only truly "nationalized" healthcare system that I know of.

Germany has a system of what is called "Multipayer" system which includes both public and private insurers.

What seems like a simple statement of fact is not so simple after all.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 3:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not blaming Trump for the impoverishment of the average American. Over all the years and all the politicians, there's certainly plenty of blame to spread around for the fix we're in.

I'm just saying he didn't turn it around. Of course, being a domestic issue Trump has very little control over this. So I'm not even criticizing him for it either.

I'm just pointing out the pathway between Trump can do no wrong, and Trump can do no right.



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Saturday, October 17, 2020 6:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not blaming Trump for the impoverishment of the average American. Over all the years and all the politicians, there's certainly plenty of blame to spread around for the fix we're in.

I'm just saying he didn't turn it around. Of course, being a domestic issue Trump has very little control over this. So I'm not even criticizing him for it either.

I'm just pointing out the pathway between Trump can do no wrong, and Trump can do no right.



Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

Many Presidents, starting with Nixon and all the way thru Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama worked MIGHTY HARD to help industry offshore manufacturing jobs and convert the USA into a "financialist" center.

How can a President, over the course of four years, reverse decades of economoc treason? Seriously, what would it take to bring even 100,000 manuacturing jobs back to the USA?

Well, you can start by imposing tariffs on incoming goods to make "made in America" more cost competitive, and you can repatriate overseas money to come home by making USA corporate taxes more in line with international ones (like Ireland) but unless you can FORCE a company to .... say ... use that money to build a steel plant or a chemical plant or a cotton mill or aluminum refiner ... they will take all that
extra" money and use it to buy back stock.

This isn't a case of Trump, or any President, or even Congress not having the authority to do that, it would be stepping into a whole new world of nationalization, where you would have state-owned (or at least government-financed or government-mandated) enterprises, like China and its SOEs.

I think this is the conundrum FDR faced, because infrastructural spending goes only so far to stimulate the economy. Once you've paved the roads and electrified rural America and built railways and giant dams.... unless you have a thriving PRODUCTIVE economy, the roads and railways will be empty and the electricity will be unused. But then, there was the war and all of the sudden the govenment needed millions of tons of steel and copper and cotton and butter, and the actual PRODUCTIVE economy came to life because the government ordered it so.

So a President and a willing Congress would have to invoke something like a war measures act ... hopefully without an actual shooting war ... to mandate a production restart. And BTW you should forget about the USA "competing' on the world stage, elbowing aside such cheap-labor environmental miscreants like China and India. USA goods will always be non-competitive against those nations if we want to have a decent stadard of living at home, so the best we can hope for is self reliance. Of course, transational capitalists would be unsatisfied with not making "maximal" profit (whch they can do overseas) so this is where the heavy hand of government comes in.

I don't see any way around nationaliation of major industries ... or at least direct government loans for production restart ... for that economic miracle to happen. If you can think of another way, let me know.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 7:30 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


To get back to Trump/ republicans v Obama/ democrats ...

Various administrations have had an active hand in securing corporate maximal profits, from Kennecott Copper and Anaconda in Chile in the 1920's to a hundred years later with Apple in China ... and IP, outsourcing, and free trade agreements in between. I'm just pointing out that the destruction of US manufacturing wasn't entirely due to corporations; the government expended resources and adopted policies, agreements, and laws to make it so. Perhaps without the government's involvement, the process would have been slower.

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

I expected him to. It is easy to do so when Congress cooperates with the President and the result was that Trump did produce a miracle.

Remember the CARES Act? I do. That was the economic miracle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CARES_Act

CARES was to be followed by a second miracle, the HEROES Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEROES_Act

Why is there no HEROES Act?
Because of Mitch McConnell. Since Mitch does not believe Trump will be reelected, Mitch will not help President Biden create a miracle similar to Trump's.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/521225-mcconnell-shoots-down-18-tr
illion-coronavirus-deal-breaking-with-trump


Signym, you might want to look closer at the economic miracle of WWII. That President's miracle was putting to work 16,112,566 Americans in the United States Armed Forces. Those Americans had active purposes and real goals to accomplish. In sharp contrast, Trump's miracle was to pay 30,000,000 Americans with no purpose other than waste time and do nothing until Covid-19 miraculously went away. To do more would have required government planning, but Trump doesn't know how to plan.
www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/cares-act-measures-strengthening-
unemployment-insurance-should-continue



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:41 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Or, we could just have nationalized free healthcare like every other country in the 1st world.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-a
gree-medicare-for-all-saves-money




But that's not true. "every other country" does NOT have nationalized free healthcare.

Canada has single payer, where the government cuts out the insurers and pays (private) healthcare providers directly.

France's medical workers, OTOH, are a mixture of public (working for government) and private (paid by government). Public insurance is available to all, as is private insurance, but whether you choose public or private insurance, you MUST have insurance. It is mandatory.

Australia, too, has a mixture of public/private healthcare, paid for by government, but because public healthcare is more cost-effective the private entities are being swamped out.

In Britain, healthcare is funded by taxes, not insurance, and healthcare providers work directly for the government. That is the only truly "nationalized" healthcare system that I know of.

Germany has a system of what is called "Multipayer" system which includes both public and private insurers.

What seems like a simple statement of fact is not so simple after all.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

You have it in Russia. Right, comrade?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.



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Saturday, October 17, 2020 11:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

REAVERBOT:
Or, we could just have nationalized free healthcare like every other country in the 1st world.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-a
gree-medicare-for-all-saves-money



SIGNY: But that's not true. "every other country" does NOT have nationalized free healthcare.

Canada has single payer, where the government cuts out the insurers and pays (private) healthcare providers directly.

France's medical workers, OTOH, are a mixture of public (working for government) and private (paid by government). Public insurance is available to all, as is private insurance, but whether you choose public or private insurance, you MUST have insurance. It is mandatory.

Australia, too, has a mixture of public/private healthcare, paid for by government, but because public healthcare is more cost-effective the private entities are being swamped out.

In Britain, healthcare is funded by taxes, not insurance, and healthcare providers work directly for the government. That is the only truly "nationalized" healthcare system that I know of.

Germany has a system of what is called "Multipayer" system which includes both public and private insurers.

What seems like a simple statement of fact is not so simple after all.


REAVERBOT: You have it in Russia. Right, comrade?

You get your ass handed to you by making a stupid statement, and your only response is more stupidity?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 11:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNY:
Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

SECONDRATE: Signym, you might want to look closer at the economic miracle of WWII. That President's miracle was putting to work 16,112,566 Americans in the United States Armed Forces. Those Americans had active purposes and real goals to accomplish. In sharp contrast, Trump's miracle was to pay 30,000,000 Americans with no purpose other than waste time and do nothing until Covid-19 miraculously went away. To do more would have required government planning, but Trump doesn't know how to plan.
www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/cares-act-measures-strengthening-
unemployment-insurance-should-continue

It sounds like you want Trump to start a war.

Do you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:03 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

That's what I'm saying. I'm not blaming Trump for the impoverishment of the average American. Over all the years and all the politicians, there's certainly plenty of blame to spread around for the fix we're in.

I'm just saying he didn't turn it around. Of course, being a domestic issue Trump has very little control over this. So I'm not even criticizing him for it either.

I'm just pointing out the pathway between Trump can do no wrong, and Trump can do no right.

Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

Many Presidents, starting with Nixon and all the way thru Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama worked MIGHTY HARD to help industry offshore manufacturing jobs and convert the USA into a "financialist" center.

How can a President, over the course of four years, reverse decades of economoc treason? Seriously, what would it take to bring even 100,000 manuacturing jobs back to the USA?

Well, you can start by imposing tariffs on incoming goods to make "made in America" more cost competitive, and you can repatriate overseas money to come home by making USA corporate taxes more in line with international ones (like Ireland) but unless you can FORCE a company to .... say ... use that money to build a steel plant or a chemical plant or a cotton mill or aluminum refiner ... they will take all that
extra" money and use it to buy back stock.

This isn't a case of Trump, or any President, or even Congress not having the authority to do that, it would be stepping into a whole new world of nationalization, where you would have state-owned (or at least government-financed or government-mandated) enterprises, like China and its SOEs.

I think this is the conundrum FDR faced, because infrastructural spending goes only so far to stimulate the economy. Once you've paved the roads and electrified rural America and built railways and giant dams.... unless you have a thriving PRODUCTIVE economy, the roads and railways will be empty and the electricity will be unused. But then, there was the war and all of the sudden the govenment needed millions of tons of steel and copper and cotton and butter, and the actual PRODUCTIVE economy came to life because the government ordered it so.

So a President and a willing Congress would have to invoke something like a war measures act ... hopefully without an actual shooting war ... to mandate a production restart. And BTW you should forget about the USA "competing' on the world stage, elbowing aside such cheap-labor environmental miscreants like China and India. USA goods will always be non-competitive against those nations if we want to have a decent stadard of living at home, so the best we can hope for is self reliance. Of course, transational capitalists would be unsatisfied with not making "maximal" profit (whch they can do overseas) so this is where the heavy hand of government comes in.

I don't see any way around nationaliation of major industries ... or at least direct government loans for production restart ... for that economic miracle to happen. If you can think of another way, let me know.

It might be better to say Relative Economic Miracle.
Some expectation levels of miracle are outlandinsh. But compared to 8 years of Obamanomics, Trumpanomics has been a relative miracle. And this was during the debris of Obamanomics, to boot.


The figures indicate that less tha half of the US population are "wage earners" according to SocSec data. And it shows that half of those "wage earners" are at the level of the $34K. But it also denotes that about 26% of these "wage earners" made less that $15K for the year. I'm not even sure what the minimum wage is, but these seem almost certainly not full time employees, and not living in their parents basement.

I don't really expect most who only work part time and live in their momz basement to be earning $34K anyhow.

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNY:
But this has been going on for DECADES. Long before Trump, and even long before Obama.

The only thing that happened under Trump is the same thing that happened under Obama, GWB etc: NOTHING. NOTHING happened to reverse the trend.

KII: That's what I'm saying. I'm not blaming Trump for the impoverishment of the average American. Over all the years and all the politicians, there's certainly plenty of blame to spread around for the fix we're in.

I'm just saying he didn't turn it around. Of course, being a domestic issue Trump has very little control over this. So I'm not even criticizing him for it either.

I'm just pointing out the pathway between Trump can do no wrong, and Trump can do no right.

Well, you DID manage to get SECONDRATE to finally post something other than nonsense, so there's that. I was shocked to see him posting exactly what I've been posting all along: our economy over the decades/centuries has been molded by the rich, for the rich. But I'm more interested in what CAN be done, and what it would take to get there.

Quote:

SIGNY: Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

Many Presidents, starting with Nixon and all the way thru Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 and Obama worked MIGHTY HARD to help industry offshore manufacturing jobs and convert the USA into a "financialist" center.

How can a President, over the course of four years, reverse decades of economoc treason? Seriously, what would it take to bring even 100,000 manuacturing jobs back to the USA?

Well, you can start by imposing tariffs on incoming goods to make "made in America" more cost competitive, and you can repatriate overseas money to come home by making USA corporate taxes more in line with international ones (like Ireland) but unless you can FORCE a company to .... say ... use that money to build a steel plant or a chemical plant or a cotton mill or aluminum refiner ... they will take all that
extra" money and use it to buy back stock.

This isn't a case of Trump, or any President, or even Congress not having the authority to do that, it would be stepping into a whole new world of nationalization, where you would have state-owned (or at least government-financed or government-mandated) enterprises, like China and its SOEs.

I think this is the conundrum FDR faced, because infrastructural spending goes only so far to stimulate the economy. Once you've paved the roads and electrified rural America and built railways and giant dams.... unless you have a thriving PRODUCTIVE economy, the roads and railways will be empty and the electricity will be unused. But then, there was the war and all of the sudden the govenment needed millions of tons of steel and copper and cotton and butter, and the actual PRODUCTIVE economy came to life because the government ordered it so.

So a President and a willing Congress would have to invoke something like a war measures act ... hopefully without an actual shooting war ... to mandate a production restart. And BTW you should forget about the USA "competing' on the world stage, elbowing aside such cheap-labor environmental miscreants like China and India. USA goods will always be non-competitive against those nations if we want to have a decent stadard of living at home, so the best we can hope for is self reliance. Of course, transational capitalists would be unsatisfied with not making "maximal" profit (whch they can do overseas) so this is where the heavy hand of government comes in.

I don't see any way around nationaliation of major industries ... or at least direct government loans for production restart ... for that economic miracle to happen. If you can think of another way, let me know.

And of course REAVERBOT is such a dunderhead that he doesn't realize that AOC and I are almost on the same page as this. WHAT IS THE GREEN NEW DEAL EXCEPT THE GOVERNMENT-MANDATED AND GOVERNMENT-FUNDED RESTRUCTURING OF THE AMERICAN ECONOMY AND PRODUCTION ALONG CARBON-NEUTRAL LINES? THE NATIONALIZATION OF EVERYTHING, JUST LIKE HE WANTS NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE?

And then he goes whining about Russia. Pfffft! It's like he wants to create the Soviet Union here.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 1:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


average wage index = AWI (reported as median/ average/ mode(percent of total))
Thanks to the helpful chart I was also able to include the 'mode' measure of central tendency.

YR .. ....AWI mean/ .... median/ /........mode(percent)
2007 ....25,737.20/ .... 38,760.95/ .... 2,040.04(16.21)
2008 ....26,514.38/ .... 39,652.61/ .... 2,030.99(15.82)
2009 ....26,261.29/ .... 39,054.62/ .... 2,016.31(16.11)
2010 ....26,363.55/ .... 39,959.30/ .... 2,016.50(16.04)
2011 ....26,965.43/ .... 41,211.36/ .... 2,019.42(15.56)
2012 ....27,519.10/ .... 42,498.21/ .... 2,024.79(15.17)
2013 ....28,031.02/ .... 43,041.39/ .... 2,041.13(14.84)
2014 ....28,851.21/ .... 44,569.20/ .... 2,066.40(14.27)
2015 ....29,930.13/ .... 46,119.78/ .... 2,088.66(13.68)
2016 ....30,533.31/ .... 46,640.94/ .... 2,084.76(13.34)
2017 ....31,561.49/ .... 48,251.57/ .... 2,094.50(12.96)
2018 ....32,838.05/ .... 50,000.44/ .... 2,094.19(12.47)
2019 ....34,248.45/ .... 51,916.27/ .... 2,100.95(11.92)

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

I'm not even seeing a 'relative' economic miracle under Trump.

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 2:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

SIGNY:
Trump CANNOT create an economic miracle. I never expected him to.

SECONDRATE: Signym, you might want to look closer at the economic miracle of WWII. That President's miracle was putting to work 16,112,566 Americans in the United States Armed Forces. Those Americans had active purposes and real goals to accomplish. In sharp contrast, Trump's miracle was to pay 30,000,000 Americans with no purpose other than waste time and do nothing until Covid-19 miraculously went away. To do more would have required government planning, but Trump doesn't know how to plan.
www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/cares-act-measures-strengthening-
unemployment-insurance-should-continue

It sounds like you want Trump to start a war.

Do you?

Trump could sign The HEROES Act, if he really believed he will win the election. What would Trump have to do to get that bill on his desk? www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6800/text

Trump would have to lobby 13 GOP Senators to vote for it. With 47 Democratic Senators already guaranteed to vote for it, it would become law. But Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell didn't bring the bill to a vote because he believes Trump will lose the 2020 election. In that case the HEROES Act would be helping President Biden, which is bad for the GOP. The best way for the GOP to win Congressional seats in the 2022 election is for the Senate to withhold money from President Biden to make sure he fails in his first two years.

Trump seems to agree with McConnell that he will lose the 2020 election. Therefore Trump is NOT lobbying GOP Senators to vote for the HEROES Act.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 3:16 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:



You get your ass handed to you by making a stupid statement, and your only response is more stupidity?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.




You lost. If you had the maturity of an adult, you'd be able to admit that, but like your idol Trump, you're just a screaming man-child with no conscience or morals.

I don't imagine you make a lot as a paid Russian troll. Stupid, amoral, AND a broke-ass bitch.





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Saturday, October 17, 2020 4:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:



You get your ass handed to you by making a stupid statement, and your only response is more stupidity?

God, you're stupid. Every fucking post. Pure stupid.




You lost. If you had the maturity of an adult, you'd be able to admit that, but like your idol Trump, you're just a screaming man-child with no conscience or morals.

I don't imagine you make a lot as a paid Russian troll. Stupid, amoral, AND a broke-ass bitch.





Yep, our resident lunatic is going ballistic.

So, how about AOC's plan to turn the USA into the USSA by nationalizing and regulating .. well... everything? Am I the only one to see the irony of supporting that plan?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, October 17, 2020 4:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yeah, I don't pay attention to him anymore, except to call him an idiot from time to time.

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Monday, October 19, 2020 6:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
average wage index = AWI (reported as median/ average/ mode(percent of total))
Thanks to the helpful chart I was also able to include the 'mode' measure of central tendency.

YR .. ....AWI mean/Increase
.. median/ /........mode(percent)
2007 ....25,737.20/ ..000000.. 38,760.95/ .... 2,040.04(16.21)
2008 ....26,514.38/+0,777 .... 39,652.61/ .... 2,030.99(15.82)
2009 ....26,261.29/--0,247 .... 39,054.62/ .... 2,016.31(16.11)
2010 ....26,363.55/+0,102 .... 39,959.30/ .... 2,016.50(16.04)
2011 ....26,965.43/+0,602 .... 41,211.36/ .... 2,019.42(15.56)
2012 ....27,519.10/+0,554 .... 42,498.21/ .... 2,024.79(15.17)
2013 ....28,031.02/+0,512 .... 43,041.39/ .... 2,041.13(14.84)
2014 ....28,851.21/+0,820 .... 44,569.20/ .... 2,066.40(14.27)
2015 ....29,930.13/+1,079 .... 46,119.78/ .... 2,088.66(13.68)
2016 ....30,533.31/+0,603 .... 46,640.94/ .... 2,084.76(13.34)
2017 ....31,561.49/+1,028 .... 48,251.57/ .... 2,094.50(12.96)
2018 ....32,838.05/+1,277 .... 50,000.44/ .... 2,094.19(12.47)
2019 ....34,248.45/+1,410 .... 51,916.27/ .... 2,100.95(11.92)

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

I'm not even seeing a 'relative' economic miracle under Trump.

Does this improve your vision?
2019 was more than twice the averagte increase during Obamanomics.

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Wednesday, October 21, 2020 6:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Goodbye Middle Class: Half Of All American Workers Made Less Than $34,248.45 Last Year

If you are making less than $3,000 a month, you have plenty of company, because about half of the country is in the exact same boat. The Social Security Administration just released new wage statistics for 2019, and they are pretty startling. To me, the most alarming thing in the entire report is the fact that the median yearly wage was just $34,248.45 last year. In other words, half of all American workers made less than $34,248.45 in 2019, and half of all American workers made more than $34,248.45. That isn’t a whole lot of money. In fact, when you divide $34,248.45 by 12 you get just $2,854.05. Needless to say, it is not easy to survive in America today on just $2,854.05 a month, and this may help to explain why we have been seeing so many people fall out of the middle class in recent years.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/goodbye-middle-class-half-
of-all-american-workers-made-less-than-34248-45-last-year



Now, that measure of central tendency - 'the median' - is only slightly less useless in a highly skewed distribution than 'the average'. The number one really wants to see would be 'the mode'. But nobody reports that because it would leave high-income earners out of the picture entirely and paint too accurate a picture of the American workers.
2019 - $34,248 (+1407)
2018 - $32,838 (+1277)
2017 - $31,561 (+1028)
2016 - $30,533 (+603)
2015 - $29,930 (+1079)
2014 - $28,851 (+820)
2013 - $28,031 (+512)
2012 - $27,519 (+554)
2011 - $26,965

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Thursday, October 22, 2020 1:09 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://byjus.com/maths/mode/

The value occurring most frequently in a set of observations is its mode. In other words, the mode of data is the observation having the highest frequency in a set of data.


The value that appears MOST FREQUENTLY in the wage data set from 2007 - 2019 is the yearly wage value ~ $2000 - $2100. Which means those values are the MODE.

As I've mentioned many times before, there are 3 measure of central tendency: the mean, the median, and the mode. In a 'normal' distribution, all those values are the same. But in a highly skewed distribution, where there's a hump near one end and a long tail at the other end, both mean and median become less useful if you want to find out where the bulk of your data resides. In the case of wages (not income) the highest frequency of the data is at the very low end.

The government formally reports the mean and median, because they look better. It doesn't report the mode because it looks bad, but you can determine it from the data.


https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

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Thursday, October 22, 2020 3:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So to get back to the econmic miracle that wasn't ...

The same as when we discuss "socialism" or "Fascism" we need some groundrules about definitions.

an ECONOMY is people exchanging goods and services. Where you have no production of goods to exchange, you have no economy.

FINANCIALISM is "making money on money". Thomas Picketty wrote a whole 600-page book about that: Capital in the 21st Century. In brief, he explains that if "modern" capital can make 6% by lending and speculation instead of 3% thru production, moeny will move to higher-profit financialism and avoid all the headaches of supply chains and labor unrest and environmental regulations and all of the disruptions that production is heir to.

What Trump has "accomplished" is exactly what OBAMA "accomplished" ... thanks to the very generous lending and money-printing by THE FED, "asset" prices (stocks), real estate, hedge funds, and bonds have exploded in value. Financialism. But unless the manufacturing economy recovers significantly, there is no "economic miracle" to speak of.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, October 22, 2020 1:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
https://byjus.com/maths/mode/
The value occurring most frequently in a set of observations is its mode. In other words, the mode of data is the observation having the highest frequency in a set of data.


The value that appears MOST FREQUENTLY in the wage data set from 2007 - 2019 is the yearly wage value ~ $2000 - $2100. Which means those values are the MODE.

As I've mentioned many times before, there are 3 measure of central tendency: the mean, the median, and the mode. In a 'normal' distribution, all those values are the same. But in a highly skewed distribution, where there's a hump near one end and a long tail at the other end, both mean and median become less useful if you want to find out where the bulk of your data resides. In the case of wages (not income) the highest frequency of the data is at the very low end.

The government formally reports the mean and median, because they look better. It doesn't report the mode because it looks bad, but you can determine it from the data.

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

You seem to be saying that the most important figure is those making $2,000 per year, or effectively the unemployed - while actually excluding the unemployed.
I am missing the concept of why this is a valid focus of data about wage earners or working folk at large.

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Thursday, October 22, 2020 1:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So to get back to the econmic miracle that wasn't ...

The same as when we discuss "socialism" or "Fascism" we need some groundrules about definitions.

an ECONOMY is people exchanging goods and services. Where you have no production of goods to exchange, you have no economy.

FINANCIALISM is "making money on money". Thomas Picketty wrote a whole 600-page book about that: Capital in the 21st Century. In brief, he explains that if "modern" capital can make 6% by lending and speculation instead of 3% thru production, moeny will move to higher-profit financialism and avoid all the headaches of supply chains and labor unrest and environmental regulations and all of the disruptions that production is heir to.

What Trump has "accomplished" is exactly what OBAMA "accomplished" ... thanks to the very generous lending and money-printing by THE FED, "asset" prices (stocks), real estate, hedge funds, and bonds have exploded in value. Financialism. But unless the manufacturing economy recovers significantly, there is no "economic miracle" to speak of.

I sense that Germany is what you consider Financialism, on a global scale.

Can you agree that Trump has made progress, working to reverse Obamanomics but it can't be done overnight? You don't think that this would be a Relative Economic Miracle while far from an actual miracle?

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Thursday, October 22, 2020 3:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Perhaps you need to re-read the thread title and OP:


The non-existent Trump economic miracle.

Goodbye Middle Class: Half Of All American Workers Made Less Than $34,248.45 Last Year


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Thursday, October 22, 2020 5:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
https://byjus.com/maths/mode/
The value occurring most frequently in a set of observations is its mode. In other words, the mode of data is the observation having the highest frequency in a set of data.


The value that appears MOST FREQUENTLY in the wage data set from 2007 - 2019 is the yearly wage value ~ $2000 - $2100. Which means those values are the MODE.

As I've mentioned many times before, there are 3 measure of central tendency: the mean, the median, and the mode. In a 'normal' distribution, all those values are the same. But in a highly skewed distribution, where there's a hump near one end and a long tail at the other end, both mean and median become less useful if you want to find out where the bulk of your data resides. In the case of wages (not income) the highest frequency of the data is at the very low end.

The government formally reports the mean and median, because they look better. It doesn't report the mode because it looks bad, but you can determine it from the data.

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

You seem to be saying that the most important figure is those making $2,000 per year, or effectively the unemployed - while actually excluding the unemployed.
I am missing the concept of why this is a valid focus of data about wage earners or working folk at large.

Because that is what THE MOST wage earners make.

Here is a problem with the other measures of central tendency:

You have ten baseball players sitting on a bench. One of them makes a million dollars, four of them make $10,000, and five make $1,000.

What is the average? (Roughly $100,000)
What is the median? (About $10,000)
But what do MOST of the players earn? $1000.

In this case, the average is a completely irrelevant figure, the median only slightly more reflective, but the mode tells you how MOST of the players are faring.


That distribution BTW may sound unrealistic, but it's like the USA distribution: it is highly skewed.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Thursday, October 22, 2020 7:58 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So to get back to the econmic miracle that wasn't ...

The same as when we discuss "socialism" or "Fascism" we need some groundrules about definitions.

an ECONOMY is people exchanging goods and services. Where you have no production of goods to exchange, you have no economy.

FINANCIALISM is "making money on money". Thomas Picketty wrote a whole 600-page book about that: Capital in the 21st Century. In brief, he explains that if "modern" capital can make 6% by lending and speculation instead of 3% thru production, moeny will move to higher-profit financialism and avoid all the headaches of supply chains and labor unrest and environmental regulations and all of the disruptions that production is heir to.

What Trump has "accomplished" is exactly what OBAMA "accomplished" ... thanks to the very generous lending and money-printing by THE FED, "asset" prices (stocks), real estate, hedge funds, and bonds have exploded in value. Financialism. But unless the manufacturing economy recovers significantly, there is no "economic miracle" to speak of.

There are TWO books on capital by Piketty. The latest, “Capital and Ideology” (2020):

For Piketty, rising inequality is a political phenomenon. The social-democratic framework that made Western societies relatively equal for a couple of generations after World War II, he argues, was dismantled, not out of necessity, but because of the rise of a “neo-proprietarian” ideology. Indeed, this is a view shared by many, though not all, economists. These days, attributing inequality mainly to the ineluctable forces of technology and globalization is out of fashion, and there is much more emphasis on factors like the decline of unions, which has a lot to do with political decisions.

But why did policy take a hard-right turn? Piketty places much of the blame on center-left parties, which, as he notes, increasingly represent highly educated voters. These more and more elitist parties, he argues, lost interest in policies that helped the disadvantaged, and hence forfeited their support. And his clear implication is that social democracy can be revived by refocusing on populist economic policies, and winning back the working class.

Piketty could be right about this, but as far as I can tell, most political scientists would disagree. In the United States, at least, they stress the importance of race and social issues in driving the white working class away from Democrats, and doubt that a renewed focus on equality would bring those voters back. After all, during the Obama years the Affordable Care Act extended health insurance to many disadvantaged voters, while tax rates on top incomes went up substantially. Yet the white working class went heavily for Trump, and stayed Republican in 2018.

Maybe the political science consensus is wrong.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200308071004/https://www.nytimes.com/202
0/03/08/books/review/capital-and-ideology-thomas-piketty.html


Free download of Thomas Piketty’s “Capital in the Twenty-First Century” (2014) and “Capital and Ideology” (2020) at

https://libgen.unblockit.lat/search.php?req=Thomas+Piketty+capital

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 23, 2020 8:13 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Perhaps you need to re-read the thread title and OP:

The non-existent Trump economic miracle.

Goodbye Middle Class: Half Of All American Workers Made Less Than $34,248.45 Last Year

One well known way to increase incomes for people making the least is increasing the minimum wage. Trump won't do it.

Increasing the minimum wage is very popular.

Empirical economics research has grown increasingly optimistic about the possibility of a $15 per hour wage as some cities have experimented with it.

At the same time, it’s become extraordinarily popular with the public, drawing a large amount of support even from rank-and-file Republicans.

Back during the 2016 campaign, Trump repeatedly suggested he would support a minimum wage increase — albeit perhaps to $10/hour rather than $15/hour.

As president, he’s completely abandoned that idea. And it’s part of a larger transformation, through which a guy who was perceived as ideologically moderate in 2016 has become increasingly right-wing and extreme on basic economic issues. Joe Biden, the Democratic presidential nominee, said he’s for raising the minimum to $15/hr, as Democrats generally are.

https://www.vox.com/2020/10/22/21529733/donald-trump-minimum-wage-deba
te


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 23, 2020 10:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND: Or, Picketty could just have said this

Quote:

“The ruling class who manipulate the culture of that society—the beliefs, explanations, perceptions, values, and mores—so that their imposed, ruling-class worldview becomes the accepted cultural norm; the universally valid dominant ideology, which justifies the social, political, and economic status quo as natural and inevitable, perpetual and beneficial for everyone”


Or this

Quote:

“The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e., the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force.”


or this

Quote:

Take away a nation's heritage and they are more easily persuaded.








-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, October 23, 2020 11:09 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"One well known way to increase incomes for people making the least is increasing the minimum wage."

Prove it. Find (and reference) the percent of US workers making the minimum wage, adjust the national average to account for an increase to $10, and show it makes a difference larger than the one already found on the tables.

QUOTES AND LINKS showing an increased minimum wage will change the lowest rung of the national wage table more than $100/yr - or it didn't happen.

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Friday, October 23, 2020 11:34 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
"One well known way to increase incomes for people making the least is increasing the minimum wage."

Prove it. Find (and reference) the percent of US workers making the minimum wage, adjust the national average to account for an increase to $10, and show it makes a difference larger than the one already found on the tables.

QUOTES AND LINKS showing an increased minimum wage will change the lowest rung of the national wage table more than $100/yr - or it didn't happen.

That's a homework problem, and to the Russian troll who is defending Trump's refusal to raise the minimum to $15/hour I will say, "Fuck you, you goddamn idiot."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 23, 2020 11:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND: Or, Picketty could just have said this

Quote:

“The ruling class who manipulate the culture of that society—the beliefs, explanations, perceptions, values, and mores—so that their imposed, ruling-class worldview becomes the accepted cultural norm; the universally valid dominant ideology, which justifies the social, political, and economic status quo as natural and inevitable, perpetual and beneficial for everyone”


Or this

Quote:

“The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e., the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force.”


or this

Quote:

Take away a nation's heritage and they are more easily persuaded.

It is time for dueling quotes:

"The history of inequality cannot be reduced to an eternal clash between oppressors of the people and proud defenders. On both sides one finds sophisticated intellectual and institutional constructs. To be sure, on the side of the dominant groups, these constructs are not always devoid of hypocrisy and reflect a determination to remain in power, but they still need to be studied closely. Unlike the class struggle, the struggle of ideologies involves shared knowledge and experiences, respect for others, deliberation, and democracy. No one will ever possess the absolute truth about just ownership, just borders, just democracy, just taxes and education. The history of human societies can be seen as a quest for justice. Progress is possible only through detailed comparison of personal and historical experiences and the widest possible deliberation.

Nevertheless, the struggle of ideologies and the quest for justice also entails the expression of clearly defined positions and clearly designated antagonists. Based on the experiences analyzed in this book, I am convinced that capitalism and private property can be superseded and that a just society can be established . . ."

-- from the conclusion of Capital and Ideology (2020)
Get the free book here: http://library.lol/main/F373B4D589A0E25F564F05714B66683C

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 23, 2020 11:44 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

I refuse to support in the slightest the assertions I posted and prefer to personally attack instead.
fify

Quote:

all you need do is google http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62934&p=28

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Friday, October 23, 2020 11:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The problem with raising the minimum wage is that it will encourage businesses to automate jobs out of existence.

Unless there is a government commitment to full and meaningful employment (has to be government, business always wants to reduce expenses and in the long run that means getting rid of employees) including a commitment to industrial production, you will just be rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Friday, October 23, 2020 12:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


When SECOND claims that increasing the minimum wage will substantially impact the wages of the lowest tier of workers (the mode) this is what he didn't want to post in support:
Quote:

In 2019, 82.3 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.1 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 392,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.2 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.9 percent of all hourly paid workers.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2019/home.htm

Because there are so few workers in that category, if every worker below or at minimum wage were to have their wages raised to $10/hr it would have only a very small percent effect on the US wage structure.


SECOND, to quote back to you some snark you posted to me:
Quote:

all you need do is google http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62934&p=28

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Friday, October 23, 2020 12:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
When SECOND claims that increasing the minimum wage will substantially impact the wages of the lowest tier of workers (the mode) this is what he didn't want to post in support:
Quote:

In 2019, 82.3 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.1 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 392,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.2 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.9 percent of all hourly paid workers.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2019/home.htm

Because there are so few workers in that category, if every worker below or at minimum wage were to have their wages raised to $10/hr it would have only a very small percent effect on the US wage structure.


SECOND, to quote back to you some snark you posted to me:
Quote:

all you need do is google http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62934&p=28

So is the official GOP position to not raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15/hour because there are only 1.6 million who are making exactly $7.25 or less?

Yes, the GOP is strongly opposed: Two state Republican leaders added their voices Monday in opposition to a proposed constitutional amendment that would gradually boost the minimum wage to $15 an hour in Florida. Republican Party of Florida Chairman Joe Gruters, a state senator from Sarasota, and incoming House Speaker Chris Sprowls, R-Palm Harbor, described the ballot initiative as “a Trojan horse,” “a trapdoor,” and “a wolf in sheep’s clothing” that will bring to Florida “failed policies” from liberal cities where streets are “covered in poverty, riots, crime.”
www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2020/09/29/florida-fight-minimum
-wage.html


I will fire you before I will raise your wage even one penny above $7.25/hour, says GOP Party platform.
www.gop.com/minimum-wage/

During last night's debate, Trump says the minimum wage should be set by the states. This implies that there shouldn’t even be a minimum wage.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/10/liveblogging-the-final-presiden
tial-debate
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, October 23, 2020 3:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
https://byjus.com/maths/mode/
The value occurring most frequently in a set of observations is its mode. In other words, the mode of data is the observation having the highest frequency in a set of data.


The value that appears MOST FREQUENTLY in the wage data set from 2007 - 2019 is the yearly wage value ~ $2000 - $2100. Which means those values are the MODE.

As I've mentioned many times before, there are 3 measure of central tendency: the mean, the median, and the mode. In a 'normal' distribution, all those values are the same. But in a highly skewed distribution, where there's a hump near one end and a long tail at the other end, both mean and median become less useful if you want to find out where the bulk of your data resides. In the case of wages (not income) the highest frequency of the data is at the very low end.

The government formally reports the mean and median, because they look better. It doesn't report the mode because it looks bad, but you can determine it from the data.

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2007
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2008
etc

You seem to be saying that the most important figure is those making $2,000 per year, or effectively the unemployed - while actually excluding the unemployed.
I am missing the concept of why this is a valid focus of data about wage earners or working folk at large.

Because that is what THE MOST wage earners make.

Here is a problem with the other measures of central tendency:

You have ten baseball players sitting on a bench. One of them makes a million dollars, four of them make $10,000, and five make $1,000.

What is the average? (Roughly $100,000)
What is the median? (About $10,000)
But what do MOST of the players earn? $1000.

In this case, the average is a completely irrelevant figure, the median only slightly more reflective, but the mode tells you how MOST of the players are faring.


That distribution BTW may sound unrealistic, but it's like the USA distribution: it is highly skewed.

Two of you seem to be responding as one. Do not be offended if I reply to one but the other thinks differently.

Your claims about Mode seem to exhibit logic failure.
For 2019, you are using the figure of 2,100.95, which is the average of the arbitrary range size of $5,000 applied to $0.01 - $4,999.

With a Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25 per hour, any wages below $15,080 are essentially unemployed or Part Time employ.

With an arbitrary range of 0-49,999 the average of $3,216 - and this would be your Mode with all income ranges at $50,000.

For an income range of 0-2,000 the percent would be about 6% or less. With the income range of 0-1,000 the percent would be surely less than 4%.

Both of those ranges, including the range you claim is the Mode are vastly monopolized by unemployed who earned a few minutes of hours of work. But you are not including all of the Wage Earners who were unemployed completely.
Shadow Stats reported in Dec 2019 that the Unemployed who were not included as Official Unemployed because they had been unemployed for more than a year (all of 2019) was more than 13% of the Labor Force, or about 22 million Americans.

This 13% is by far the largest percentage compared to your arbitrary range of $5,000, or a more reasonable range of $2,000 or $1,000 - and thus the actual Mode which you keep denying is the Income of $0.00 for the year, with more than 13%.

And that is the same figure for the Mode for every year since Obama's first year.
So what point does you claim make if every year the actual Mode is $0?


A more reasonable usage of data might be to use the cut-off of $15,080 as being unemployed.
This would have 114.7 million people earning a total of $19.618 Trillion, for an average of $171,000.

But weighting your claimed data with up to 6% unemployed does not behoove your claim.


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Friday, October 23, 2020 5:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

KIKI - ]In 2019, 82.3 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.1 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 392,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.2 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.9 percent of all hourly paid workers.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2019/home.htm

Quote:

SECOND - So is the official GOP position to not raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15/hour because there are only 1.6 million who are making exactly $7.25 or less?
So it's the official democratic position to focus exclusively on the minimum wage as their pretense of 'caring' about workers, even though it'll help only 1.1% of all wage workers (1.9% of all hourly workers, which are only 58.1% of all hourly plus wage workers)?

And if democrats don't do any different, how are they any better?
Quote:

all you need do is google http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62934&p=28


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Friday, October 23, 2020 6:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


JSF

First of all, the SS Wage Statistics deal with people who are earning a paycheck - not the unemployed. Unemployment benefits aren't wages. So your argument that low wage workers are "essentially" unemployed, and trying to pass them off in that category, is in error. They may be working very few hours, and their wages may be abysmally low, but they're working. Instead of trying to fudge away the data, realize that, indeed, the wage data posted in the SS Wage Statistics is as dire as the lives most working people are living.

When you're dealing with a continuous variable - like wages - it's a common and acceptable practice to divide the data into 'slices' and subject those slices to statistical evaluation. "With an arbitrary range of 0-49,999 the average of $3,216 - and this would be your Mode with all income ranges at $50,000." It's a well known problem that picking arbitrary ranges can affect statistical evaluation, so the practice is to create as many ranges as you can possibly work with, to more accurately reflect the distribution shape of the original data. Picking a very arbitrary and very large range is also misdirected.

"With a Federal Minimum Wage of $7.25 per hour, any wages below $15,080 are essentially unemployed or Part Time employ." Yes ... and that's another problem that goes unaddressed by the focus on the minimum wage - the many many people who work gig, ad hoc, part-time, or less than part-time work.

"But you are not including all of the Wage Earners who were unemployed completely." And that's still another problem with the government stats like mean and median wage - it misses all the people who aren't working at all. And that includes the formally unemployed as well as those who've dropped out of the labor marker entirely, and therefore not counted in any unemployment statistic.
Another way to look at unemployment is to look at the labor participation rate.
After a drastic slide post 2007
https://i.insider.com/529f21b6eab8ea780a58f40b?width=1085
it leveled off around 2015.

And it hasn't improved since then.

I'm not seeing an economic miracle for people who work for a living, and certainly not one under Trump.

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