New York Magazine article that talks about a new revolution in TV... discusses the posibility of resurrecting Firefly by onetransmission

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

New York Magazine article that talks about a new revolution in TV... discusses the posibility of resurrecting Firefly

POSTED BY: ONETRANSMISSION
UPDATED: Monday, November 21, 2005 10:05
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 22502
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Monday, November 14, 2005 5:59 AM

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/tv/15038/index.html

an excerpt from page 3:

"All of which leads to an enticing possibility: Let’s say that Joss Whedon, creator of Firefly, wanted to bring the series back to air. (Though “back to air” is a TV phrase now as anachronistically quaint as “switching the dial.”) Let’s say he found a million Firefly fans online—and, trust me, they’re not hiding—who were willing to pay, say, $39.99 each for a sixteen-episode season of Firefly. (Not an unreasonable price, given how many people pay about that amount for full seasons on DVD.) Suddenly, Joss Whedon’s got roughly $40 million to play with—and he doesn’t need a network. Or a time slot. Or advertisers. He can beam the damn shows right to your computer if he wants to. There’s even a mini-precedent for this: The online phenomenon of “ransom games,” in which a board-game developer sets a price (usually something minuscule, like $1,000), then, once he’s received that amount in pledges from strangers, creates the game and releases it for free.

But the idea of TV funded by the audience conjures another, less sunny scenario. After all, there’s already an entertainment-delivery system that funds itself through mini-contributions from millions of viewers: It’s called the movies, which aren’t exactly undergoing an artistic golden age. Furthermore, wherever democracy blooms, mob violence is only one step behind: How happy will Joss Whedon be when the $39.99-paying legions, assembled at wesavedfirefly.com, demand that a killed character be resurrected or that an irritating plotline be written out of the show?

Either way, TV’s days as a benign dictatorship—a little bread, a lot of circuses—are over, and the revolution is nigh. TV studios may still milk the old sources of revenue, but the fundamental economic law has been abolished—TV is selling shows to viewers—which, in TV terms, is like saying that the law of gravity is null and void. Everything’s up in the air. Including you, O Viewer, finally freed from your easy chair, ready to march into the streets and maybe—just maybe—drag your TV along with you."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 6:52 AM

YORG

Has Joss read this? He needs to.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 7:12 AM

DERANGEDMILK

I'll pay 40 bucks in half a second. Shoot, I'll pay a hundred for another set of Firefly DVDs. How many browncoats wouldn't? If this is a sincere possibility then why hasn't Haken started a "pledge" page.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 7:14 AM

ONETRANSMISSION

I'd be willing to pledge at least $100. Probably even more if I knew that it would definitely bring the show back. I'm sure there are at least a million other browncoats world-wide that would put down anywhere from $40-$100 or more for another season!

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Monday, November 14, 2005 7:45 AM

VANCOUVER

Quote: "How happy will Joss Whedon be when the $39.99-paying legions, assembled at wesavedfirefly.com, demand that a killed character be resurrected or that an irritating plotline be written out of the show?"

Joss, Joss, we would never do that. Okay, a bunch of people would inevitably do that, but overall we trust you to make your own decisions. You are the creator of this story and this world; if it was even remotely gratifying for us to write Firefly instead of you, we'd all be writing our own little stories and have done with it, instead of bleating on and on for YEARS about how badly we want you back.

The writer of this article has underestimated how much we (all humans, I believe) want a story that we DON'T know the end to, that we DON'T control. We want to be drawn in to someone else's imagination, and thus it has always been, in every culture, in every society, from the dawn of time. Or the writer underestimates how quickly we would learn that this is what we wanted, if some misguided individuals believed they had better ideas. Even an ostensibly "better idea" coming from a reader/viewer is a billion times more terrible than a lousy one coming from the creator of the story. If this thirst for other people's creation weren't so, writers would outnumber readers--and you notice they don't.

On the other hand, $40 million would make...4 episodes? Five?

On the third hand, there're a hell of a lot more than a million Firefly fans out there. Four million were watching it when it was originally on, and that number must have at least doubled or tripled since the issue of the DVD set.

Anyway: cool idea. Nice that all of New York--or that part that reads NY Mag--is seeing Firefly used as the example.

Vancouver

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:11 AM

LIMINALOSITY

Nice catch on the NY article. Good food for thought.
I'll bet a $39.99 subscription Joss and his people have been playing around with this kind of idea. When you have the talent to be able to write your own ticket, and talented people all around you, how much more fun would it be to use a whole new ticket-printer!
It's always my favorite thing when brave people are at the crux of a brave new moment.
*waves Joss banner*
Ohhh this is an exciting idea!

Thanks to viral marketing...SERENITY: reopening soon in a theater near you.
Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:54 AM

BLUE786

Quote:
Originally posted by derangedmilk:
I'll pay 40 bucks in half a second. Shoot, I'll pay a hundred for another set of Firefly DVDs. How many browncoats wouldn't? If this is a sincere possibility then why hasn't Haken started a "pledge" page.

It seems like for this idea to go forward for Firefly, you need someone at the top to grab onto it and run.

Someone would need to get with Mutant Enemy and Joss Whedon and figure out what the deal is with the broadcast rights. Fox still owns the rights to the TV series, but does that apply to this new "Straight to DVD/iTunes" model?

Lets assume Fox's rights to Firefly don't cover this new "Striaght to DVD/iTunes" model.

So, set up a webpage saying that a new season is on the way, assuming there are enough people willing to pre-pay $40 for a season on DVD. People can pay online via credit card/ Pay Pal, whatever. What happens if the bottom falls out, and not enough people pledge money to get the thing going? How do you refund everyone’s money?

Say a lot of people start pledging money. At what threshold do you start production? Do you wait until you get 5 million bucks until you start making episodes? 10 million? The full 40 million for the season?

Personally, I think that it would work. I think there are enough devoted fans out there. As that article said, "Shows like 24 and Firefly sell a lot of DVDs. Shows like Yes, Dear and Two and Half Men do not."

However, this would need to be led from the top. This would have to have the backing and support of Joss Whedon and compnay. Someone would need to drive it from the top.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:59 AM

BELACGOD

Quote:
Originally posted by Vancouver:

On the other hand, $40 million would make...4 episodes? Five?

What's the real answer to that? I'm in on the whole buying more DVDs thing, as that's how I experienced Firefly to begin with, but 4-5 episodes would just be a tease. Like watching the first half of the BDM.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 9:02 AM

SIMONWHO

I think $40m should comfortably get us another 13 episodes.

And would I pay? Ya-huh!

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Monday, November 14, 2005 9:05 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

Not a new idea, but good to see it getting some print-play. I would think anyone with a creative mind would have a contract with the subscribers acknowledging that though they are funding the program, they have no say in the final product...other than, of course, cancelling the subscription.

Definitely a worthy consideration, but it's going to take a lot of humpas for a major talent to take the risk associated with such a venture.

"Art is Ego..."—Greg Dulli

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Monday, November 14, 2005 9:09 AM

KELLYOFLUTHIEN

Quote:
So, set up a webpage saying that a new season is on the way, assuming there are enough people willing to pre-pay $40 for a season on DVD. People can pay online via credit card/ Pay Pal, whatever. What happens if the bottom falls out, and not enough people pledge money to get the thing going? How do you refund everyone’s money?

I would think that the money would have to be put in an account that would not be touched until there are enough funds to start production on the season. Also, I think this would need to be done within a reasonable amount of time too. Holding onto someone's $100 for 5 years while waiting to get to $40 million wouldn't cut it.

I think this idea could work, however, I think it needs to come from Joss/Mutant Enemy. A fan-based fund like this a)doesn't guarantee anything, and b) is less likely to be taken seriously, resulting in less fans actually paying for it.

As far as fans dictating what Joss writes, I think that could be taken care of in a disclaimer before a person pays for the show.

Just a couple thoughts

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain

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Monday, November 14, 2005 10:11 AM

BLUEROOM

I'm in for $100 as soon as this thing starts. And much as I'd like to, I wouldn't make it conditional on getting to see Jayne at least shirtless in every episode.

Seriously, I wonder if this could work? I hardly watch anything on TV any longer--if I like something at all, I either record it or wait for the DVD. And as wonderful as it was to see Serenity on the big screen, I'd be way happy with another set of episodes I could watch over and over until my eyes bleed.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 10:31 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

"TV’s days as a benign dictatorship—a little bread, a lot of circuses—are over, and the revolution is nigh."

VIA LA REVOLUTION!!!

I TOLD you guys that everything was changing and that traditional model wasn't going to work for much longer. I feel so smart now. LOL

I like the idea of RANSOMWARE....it could work for new seasons of Firefly...WE would pay up so fast! JOSS! ARE YOU OUT THERE?!?!?!

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 11:53 AM

DERANGEDMILK

I agree with everyone that this would need to be led from the top, because its dealing with people's money. I wouldn't trust my money with just anybody.
What I think needs to be done is someone needs to start a site(or just a page within this site) taking pledges. Where, like in this thread, we all post how much money we would be willing to give and a running tally could be kept at the bottom of the page. When Joss or the folks at mutant enemy see that we already have $50 million dollars worth of pledges then why would they even hesitate to start the project.
I also totally agree with a disclaimer about fans having zero influence on the story line. I don't care what I or anyone else on this site wants. I care about JOSS' STORY.
So seriously, why wouldn't this work?
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 12:53 PM

DAISYCUTTER

funnily enough, the article indicated above is what I was thinking about a few days ago, it does make sense.

-------------------------------------
Q: Why don't we just raise the defensive shields?
A: A superb suggestion with just two major drawbacks. One, we don't have any defensive shields. And two, we don't have any defensive shields. Technically speaking thats only one flaw, but it was such a big one I thought I mention it twice.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 1:03 PM

BARD

Quote:
Originally posted by Blue786:
Quote:
Originally posted by derangedmilk:
I'll pay 40 bucks in half a second. Shoot, I'll pay a hundred for another set of Firefly DVDs. How many browncoats wouldn't? If this is a sincere possibility then why hasn't Haken started a "pledge" page.

It seems like for this idea to go forward for Firefly, you need someone at the top to grab onto it and run.

Someone would need to get with Mutant Enemy and Joss Whedon and figure out what the deal is with the broadcast rights. Fox still owns the rights to the TV series, but does that apply to this new "Straight to DVD/iTunes" model?

Lets assume Fox's rights to Firefly don't cover this new "Striaght to DVD/iTunes" model.

I agree that this idea sounds very workable. it has been batted around before, in more vague terms . . .

I don't know that we can assume that FOX's rights don't hold true - Firefly would probably still be theirs. Unless they can be persuaded to a) sell rights to make a "new" series, or b)permit a new series as "silent" shareholders of some sort.

Hopefully Joss and FOX can cooperate to the extent that is required for Joss to get the show running again and have creative control.

The model of the subscription-funded show, to me, though, sounds hella-viable. We have the numbers, I have to believe, and many, including me, are willing to pay *more* than $40 for a season. I'd pay $10 for an episode, if that's what it took.

I still a newbie to threads and such. I see the same talks popping up over and over again . . . and a thread dies and then the same discussion starts again two weeks later. It seems a lot of this fragmentation results in our reinventing the same wheel over and over again. But I don't know how to fix it.

Nor do I know what it would take for a "pledge" drive to be begun and administered. I don't think it's something that folks should assume "should" be done by Haken - I dunno, but it seems to me that he must have paid some hefty dues by now, with this megasite he runs . . .

-----------

"I need that in captain-dummy-talk . . ."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 2:21 PM

KELLYOFLUTHIEN

Quote:
Originally posted by derangedmilk:
I agree with everyone that this would need to be led from the top, because its dealing with people's money. I wouldn't trust my money with just anybody.
What I think needs to be done is someone needs to start a site(or just a page within this site) taking pledges. Where, like in this thread, we all post how much money we would be willing to give and a running tally could be kept at the bottom of the page. When Joss or the folks at mutant enemy see that we already have $50 million dollars worth of pledges then why would they even hesitate to start the project.
I also totally agree with a disclaimer about fans having zero influence on the story line. I don't care what I or anyone else on this site wants. I care about JOSS' STORY.
So seriously, why wouldn't this work?
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

This might work, however, if no money changes hands, then some companies (I'm thinking Fox, etc.) might not take it seriously.

I still hold to the idea that Joss/Mutant Enemy should be the ones to head a project such as this. However, perhaps we could create a site to show Joss how much we'd pledge, just to give him a rough idea (but remember, if no money is actually changing hands, then some of the pledges would/might be bogus).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain

Check out my Big Damn FF Icons at http://www.livejournal.com/community/bigdamnfficons/

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Monday, November 14, 2005 3:05 PM

Count me in - if it's done right.

Plus there's the added bonus that Joss could actually show the episodes in the order that he intended and there would be no "pre-empting" of episodes!

---------
"See, this is another sign of your tragic space dementia, all paranoid and crotchety. Breaks the heart."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 4:53 PM

GREENGIANT

What we are talking about here is called an assurance contract. I read about this here:

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2005/05/assurance
_contr.html

You can set up a assurance contract here:

http://www.fundable.org/

Of course, before we get started on this we would need Joss to agree. I'm new to this site. Is there a chance of contacting him to get this rolling?

And there are a lot of legal issues as well. Does anyone know if Fox owns sequel rights? Any lawyers here?

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Monday, November 14, 2005 5:05 PM

LILKRISTY

Quote:
Originally posted by onetransmission:
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/tv/15038/index.html
Let’s say he found a million Firefly fans online—and, trust me, they’re not hiding—who were willing to pay, say, $39.99 each for a sixteen-episode season of Firefly. . .

Count me in where do I sign up? If this were do-able I'd totally be willing, no strike that, chomping at the bit to pay $40 or more for another season of Firefly.

I really think the problem would come from getting Fox to sell the rights. If they see that many people willing to spend money, they're gonna want a slice.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 5:27 PM

SERENYTY

Quote:
How happy will Joss Whedon be when the $39.99-paying legions, assembled at wesavedfirefly.com, demand that a killed character be resurrected or that an irritating plotline be written out of the show?

We wouldn't do that! I mean, we'd offer money and support, but we wouldn't demand that!

We'd mope, sure. We'd probably get all angry. But we know that Joss is doing what's best.

~A message from Serenyty~

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Monday, November 14, 2005 5:46 PM

DERANGEDMILK

Okay, things we need to know before this discussion can go much further:
1) How much(an average) would it cost to make a single episode of Firefly?
2) Who(if anyone) owns the rights to this sort of thing and if its FOX how much might it take to buy the rights from them(or(if this idea isn't to mutinous) would it be best to let them have the rights and they can have a piece of the pie...i don't really care as long as we get new Firefly episodes)?
3) What does Joss think about this, would he be willing to do it(i've heard hes a bit busy lately)?

I agree that this has been kicked around before, but lets try to keep this thread going, I'm really interested in this idea. Only way I wouldn't want it to happen is if Universal green-lit a sequel and thats all still up in the air and I'm sure as hell not going to give up on the story continuing if they don't. May be the losing side, doesn't mean its the wrong one.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 5:50 PM

OBIWAN

Someone has to pry the TV rights away from FOX.

Two funds maybe? One to acquire the rights and the other to produce the show?

Regardless, it's the kind of inspired idea that just might work.

=================================================
"Butcher's Knife..."

www.browncoatpatches.com

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Monday, November 14, 2005 6:20 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Why wait?

Invest your money in a possible sequel/TV show now!

Serenity's last day on the big darn screen may
be this Thursday!

If you can see Serenity on a weekday, go, and
after you see it, ask them if you can buy a ticket for Saturday!

Can't go on a weekday, but there is a theater
showing Serenity nearby, ask them if you can
buy a ticket for Friday or Saturday!

No theater anywhere near you, BUY AN ON-LINE
TICKET AND DON'T GO!

You want to prove to someone that you would
pay for a subscription to a TV show...show
them your collection of on-line tickets
bought that you did not attend. Show them
your tickets stubs that you did attend.

I like to print Fandango tickets in color.

The one I like best is the one from Anchorage,
Alaska.

I tried to buy one from Hollywood, CA but the
link failed.

Serenity DVDs, VHSs, UMDs for Christmas!

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Monday, November 14, 2005 7:06 PM

BLUE786

Quote:
Originally posted by derangedmilk:
Okay, things we need to know before this discussion can go much further:
1) How much(an average) would it cost to make a single episode of Firefly?
2) Who(if anyone) owns the rights to this sort of thing and if its FOX how much might it take to buy the rights from them(or(if this idea isn't to mutinous) would it be best to let them have the rights and they can have a piece of the pie...i don't really care as long as we get new Firefly episodes)?
3) What does Joss think about this, would he be willing to do it(i've heard hes a bit busy lately)?

1. According to http://emahollywood.com/firefly.html, it costs about $2 million an episode. I'm sure this is a VERY rough estimate. I imagine it all depends on how you cost everything out, and how you amortize one-time costs over the run of the whole show.

2. No idea. But, Fox is in the business to make money. I would assume they would be willing to either sell the rights, or "lease" them, in return for a cut of the profit. Either of these options would make them a bunch of money. Sitting on the rights gets them exactly zero dollars.

3. No idea, however, over on www.fireflydvd.com, there's a "Direct to DVD" link http://fireflydvd.com/directdvd.html

According to this, the webmaster (Jeremy?) contacted Fox and Mutant Enemy right after the series was cancelled about going Direct to DVD. Unfortunately, it sounds like it never went anywhere. However, a lot has changed in the past 3 years.

I wish we could get some sort of word from Joss Whedon and co. on what they think of the idea.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 7:09 PM

THEANTIREAVER

Sounds Shiney.

All we have to do is
-send a message to joss,
-arm twist the savage tvseries cannibles at fox,
-pry our stars and select crew away from their other projects
-Set up a fund
-bleed a small yet significant amount of personal assets into the fund.
-and after all that ORGANIZED effort, we step back and wait for a show.

Sound like we have some formidable research and inquiries to make, but I suppose it isn't quite as bad as looking at a field of reaver craft between us and point B...

Besides, I hear tell that battlestar galactica got their shtuff up and running in much the similar.

So, anyone got a line to Whedon or sympathetic cast/crew?

How about that big damn flanvention in CALI? could such flan fantasie about show resurrection be propped in that forum?

In a time of war, we would never leave a man behind.

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Monday, November 14, 2005 7:53 PM

BLUE786

I tried contacting the webmaster at fireflydvd.com to ask him some details about what went on with his discussions with Joss and Fox back in 2003, but I never heard anything back. Anyone know any info?

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:09 PM

NTXBROWNCOAT

I see alot of people on here willing to give from 40 - 100 dollars for another season of Firefly, but, we all know that the likelyhood of this is very small indeed. I wish it was that easy but we all can be rational (even if we don't always show it) and agree that though it is an interesting proposition, that money would be better put to use elsewhere. Christmas and several other holidays are fast approaching and I think (just my opinion) that we should set up a fund for food donations for the hungry, toys for the little ones, or somesuch. Keep in mind that I consider myself a conservative person politically. We all know that our numbers are great and that with numbers come power. Let us all use that power for good rather than selfish gain, and good things will come to us. Besides it will just make you feel good. Just a thought.
(Stepping down off of soap box hoping that I don't make a bigger fool of myself than I already have!)

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:21 PM

ONETRANSMISSION

Joss is all about charity, and many of Browncoats have already organized some fundraising for Equality Now, amongst other organizations.

Heck, I think we could organize a multi-purpose fundraiser: pledge money towards funding a new direct-to-download or direct-to-dvd season of Firefly, and have a percentage of that go to certain charities.

That may tickle Joss a bit. Who knows?

All I know is that, the time is right for a revolution to happen. With the dawn of this information age already in full swing, the power can be in the audience's hands. I don't think we can sit idly by like sheep as quality entertainment is thrown out the window by network executives that are out of touch with what the people really want.

You can't stop the signal!

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:31 PM

HARTMEISTER

We'll it might not be able to be technically called Firefly. Maybe it would have be called Serenity II (it would just be 13-20 hours long) with "intermissions" every hour (in the Netherlands most films still have intermissions). Joss could get around it by premiering the whole thing at Sundance or Cannes, technically making it a theatrical movie.

I think the best method would be to find out how much Joss would want to raised for the funding. This is especially true if he wanted to do a dominant assurance contract. Another variation of the dominant assurance contract could be that he raised more money than was needed that once all monies were received that percentage refunds could be issued (if you pledged $200 but it turned out that the funding produced 10% more money than was needed $20 would be returned to to you). So in other words in my modified dominant assurnace contract if:

1) Firefly funding is inadequate, Joss or whomever would pay any who contribute a small fee in addition to the amount
2) Firefly funding is adequate, Joss or whomever gets the money to make the series
3) Firefly funding is more than adequate, Joss or whomever returns to a percentage of the overfunding to all who contributed.

Because he'd have to pony up some money if the the funding did not go through.

BTW, I'd like commentaries on ALL the new episodes not just three out of four on the DVDs. Plus I'd like the cast to sing the "Ballad of Joss" and Nathan to sing the theme song.

How much would I pay. Oh, I'd pay a $100-200 for a season.

I would be willing to have my pledge notarized.

Quote:
Originally posted by bard:
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue786:
Quote:
Originally posted by derangedmilk:
I'll pay 40 bucks in half a second. Shoot, I'll pay a hundred for another set of Firefly DVDs. How many browncoats wouldn't? If this is a sincere possibility then why hasn't Haken started a "pledge" page.

It seems like for this idea to go forward for Firefly, you need someone at the top to grab onto it and run.

Someone would need to get with Mutant Enemy and Joss Whedon and figure out what the deal is with the broadcast rights. Fox still owns the rights to the TV series, but does that apply to this new "Straight to DVD/iTunes" model?

Lets assume Fox's rights to Firefly don't cover this new "Striaght to DVD/iTunes" model.

I agree that this idea sounds very workable. it has been batted around before, in more vague terms . . .

I don't know that we can assume that FOX's rights don't hold true - Firefly would probably still be theirs. Unless they can be persuaded to a) sell rights to make a "new" series, or b)permit a new series as "silent" shareholders of some sort.

Hopefully Joss and FOX can cooperate to the extent that is required for Joss to get the show running again and have creative control.

The model of the subscription-funded show, to me, though, sounds hella-viable. We have the numbers, I have to believe, and many, including me, are willing to pay *more* than $40 for a season. I'd pay $10 for an episode, if that's what it took.

I still a newbie to threads and such. I see the same talks popping up over and over again . . . and a thread dies and then the same discussion starts again two weeks later. It seems a lot of this fragmentation results in our reinventing the same wheel over and over again. But I don't know how to fix it.

Nor do I know what it would take for a "pledge" drive to be begun and administered. I don't think it's something that folks should assume "should" be done by Haken - I dunno, but it seems to me that he must have paid some hefty dues by now, with this megasite he runs . . .

-----------

"I need that in captain-dummy-talk . . ."

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Monday, November 14, 2005 8:39 PM

HARTMEISTER

One of your problems is that some people might not want to contribute directly to Equality Now. It probably would be a good thing to have Joss would want to do this partially as a charitable thing that it be designated as a charity of Joss' choosing. That way Joss could make the decision of his own choice. Heck if this a lot of money Joss might want to distribute the money among a series of charities. Of course that might be another way to handle a funding overage. Excessive funds could be sent to "Joss Whedon Foundation" and be counted as a charitable deduction.

Quote:
Originally posted by onetransmission:
Joss is all about charity, and many of Browncoats have already organized some fundraising for Equality Now, amongst other organizations.

Heck, I think we could organize a multi-purpose fundraiser: pledge money towards funding a new direct-to-download or direct-to-dvd season of Firefly, and have a percentage of that go to certain charities.

That may tickle Joss a bit. Who knows?

All I know is that, the time is right for a revolution to happen. With the dawn of this information age already in full swing, the power can be in the audience's hands. I don't think we can sit idly by like sheep as quality entertainment is thrown out the window by network executives that are out of touch with what the people really want.

You can't stop the signal!

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Monday, November 14, 2005 11:18 PM

IMPERIALKNIGHT

We have several options each with risks and benifits attached.

1. Either through the exploitation of a loophole potentially created when he acquired the rights after Firefly's cancellation to "see if the other networks would bite" (they didn't) or adroit negotiation with the FOX Production head of the many headed FOX hydra, Joss wins the rights to bring Firefly back. This step only guarentees that FOX will not interfere in Firefly's resurgence and not the shape or form that resurgence will take.

Naturally, the nature and extent to which Universal now controls the possible fate of a reborn series remains unknown. The only rights and profits I know FOX recieves comes from the DVD's of the ORIGINAL series - and no claim is made to Firefly's future. My premise is based on what Joss said in a old interview took place as he sought to save Firefly from FOX's bungling incompetence by proactively acquiring the rights to it from FOX just after they put Firefly out to pasture and testing the waters with the other networks. It must be noted that Joss attempted this before we compelled FOX to sell the series DVDs, so I have no idea how much Joss yielded back to FOX after the other networks let us down. Obviously it wasn't everything, or else Universal did some negotiations with FOX productions to get the rights to make the movie. Honestly, I believe that FOX's sole remaining claim on Firefly comes from the episodes and extras on that fantastically popular DVD set we all own. EVERYthing else, Universal owns or Joss retains.

Now that Joss holds the right to bring back Firefly, he needs the personnel, funding, and resources required to make it happen.

2. Scifi serves as the vehicle for Firefly's return
Personnel: The orignial cast (ALL of them) + necessary Scifi support staff.
Funding: Universal owns Scifi and we have already proven our tenacity and strength to Universal enough to get the movie, a little pressure from a skilled negotiator should convince Scifi to pick up the tab esp. with the possibility of a one-time nominal show of financial support paid upfront directly into a fund specifically set aside for the sole purpose of fueling Firefly's return at a decent timeslot on Scifi. This fund would serve to show Scifi execs in a VERY direct and tantible way how much the browncoats are willing to see Firefly return. Of course, any negotiation to convince Scifi execs of the power of Firefly's return would have to contain at a minimum the very detailed fruits of the following major points:

1. The strength of DVD sales for a show that lasted only a rather erratically aired 13 episodes through the absolute worst timeslot on primetime TV (Friday evening is intrinsically NOT a good Ratings night for primetime), in the middle of the World Series, out of sequence( airing the pilot after the first episode for a start), and in spite of absolutely the most lackluster and forgettable marketing and advertising campaign in TV show history. Universal already bought this point, but it bears refreshing in their memory to set the stage for what’s to come.

2. Show them the breakdown of how well Serenity with what little it had in the way of advertising (outside of Sci-Fi) and marketing. For a word of mouth or “viral” advertising/marketing campaign (read slothful, lazy, and cheap for Advertising/Marketing execs) and the testimonials of conversion of large numbers of people (very deeply and very quickly with some special focus on those who love this show that were ambivalent toward or hated Sci-fi as a rule before watching Serenity or Firefly). Testimonials about the die-hard dedication of the fans would work nicely here as well as some figures about the exponential growth of the fan base in terms of recent DVD sales on the series in the wake of the movie. Include data on the sales and ranking of Firefly at Amazon.com and elsewhere worldwide sorted by region (Canada, Australia, USA, everywhere); make liberal comparisons between the relative standings of Star Wars III and Lost compared to Firefly as and when appropriate.

3. A free copy of both the series and the movie on DVD in the hands of the deciding execs in advance of the presentation to watch in order to soften them up and possibly convert them to our cause. Quality speaks for itself.

Resources: Scifi handles most of its own shows in Canada, I believe. Lot easier on the wallet, I presume. If Joss can't convince them to shoot in L.A. with its ridiculously high cost of living and maintainence costs (reads in Scifi's eyes a very expensive parasite leeching Scifi coffers for no practical benefit), then he might have to move the show to Canada where all the other Scifi shows live. While Kaily might be happy (unless they all want to move into her apartment, of course), the others might grumble at the sudden change in climate. Yet, Scifi has the resources to build the set, employ the necessary help, keep the cast out of soup kitchens, and the director and creator happy, all for a fraction of the cost of L.A.'s showbiz scene. Simply put Firefly is not a Star Wars squared, most of the special effects come from CGI/VHX modeling and scripting, the cast put together don't command Bill Gates daily salary, and most of the action while hosting a variety of mostly desert/urban locations take place on Serenity. This contributes to an efficiency of resource expenditure that will help make Firefly more palatable to execs looking for a healthy bottom line. It simply can't cost that much if you change the venue to somewhere not born to gouge mercilessly. The cast should be well paid without breaking the bank. You don't need legions of special effects artists and programmers for every episode. And the locations aren't filmed in Paris, France one week and the Amazon Rain Forest the next. What is it about Firefly - even counting those qualities which are priceless - that costs so much money?

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:08 AM

ANFA

I would happily pledge my hard earned money to getting more Firefly, and I know at least 8 more people just off the top of my head that would willing do the same.

If this idea flys, you can count on me!

" We're just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:15 AM

THEWASHEDONE

The thing is - if it has not been mentioned beforeand i have didn´t notice ;) - that there is a whole lotta Fans all around the globe (and "roughly" over a Million, of that i´m sure *g*).

That means, the number of people willing to pay for some more of our beloved B.D.H. and their shiny spaceship should be recalculated (upwards!!)

With a wider (worldwide) base of fans it would be possible to rise the amount of money Joss gets to go on with Firefly or the 40 bucks could be reduced to maybe 30 (not too optimistic, but a little *g*).

I surely hope this idea will last a while.

Joss has a huge fanbase here in Germany (thanks to that Slayer ;) ) and it´s still one and a half weeks before the film hits cinemas around, but i´m sure it will be a big bang and so will be the german DVD-Box (coming out today! Whooo!

)

"Everything looks good from here..."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:44 AM

RESOLUTE

Screw $40. If I knew, or even had an inkling it would bring Firefly back, I'd go as high as $500. What good is a new TV if you don't have new Firefly to watch it on?

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:57 AM

SINGLEJACK

I don't as a rule post on most message boards, I registered so that I could post here.
I couldn't afford to go as far as $500 for a season of Firefly.However I would be able to go as high as $60 a season.(gotta eat, you know)

walking and talking, bright and shiny

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:33 AM

DERANGEDMILK

About looks like someone just needs to start taking names and if we start to get a pretty large tally then someone will eventually take notice. Also, I am in complete agreeance with the charity idea, maybe we could calculate in tithe(sp?) if not simply starting a second fund altogether.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 5:37 AM

DERANGEDMILK

Thats brings us to $1320 so far on this thread.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:10 AM

DIANASPR

ok so that comes to be about $2.50 per episode that is a bargain, But is every body willing to get back onboard,thats the question, I say to Joss take the money and run with it!!! PLEASE,PlESASE,PRETTY PLEASE give us some more Firefly.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:29 AM

SHIRLOCKC

I've posted on this subject in two similar threads already. I think we can take a running poll on this fansite as an experiment to see how much money we could "raise" with this scheme. It's a matter of # and it's easy to calculate. If 500,000 are willing to fork out $40 (I paid that amount twice over as I bought 2 Firefly DVDs set already) then that's $20 million. If each episode is $2 million that's 20 episodes right there. And we all know that Joss can work within a budget.

Another similar scenario is for Joss and company to incorporate and sell shares in the "new season of Firefly" then anyone who buys a share will also share in the profit. This would then not preclude a big network from buying shares if they so choose.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:41 AM

MAL4PREZ

I'm in for $100. Honestly, it seems unlikely to work, but can't hurt to try! This could at least provide a big ole batch of seed money to get the ball rolling and make the venture less scary to a network like Scifi, even if it doesn't pay for a whole season.

I'm just wondering if we could really get a million people into this. Or even a large fraction of a million. How many people visit this site, really?

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.

"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:10 AM

DERANGEDMILK

Seems a fair amount come here, maybe not as often as some of us(everytime I open my browser I'm at good ole' fireflyfans.net) but between this site, the official browncoat webpage, the two podcasts, the scifi channel forums, and word of mouth I bet we could muster up a million or so people.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:41 AM

THEANTIREAVER

So what we could do is have a member poll on this site for people to vote on whether or not they would give, 40, 70, 100, or 500+ dollars to see firefly in the air again, leave the poll up for a month or two and try to get other firefly fansites to plug a link to it, maybe the serenity site, and few movie review zine sites too.

After we have the results from that, if they go far enough, as in aprx.40 mill. We should start an attention getter, maybe a holiday season charity collection on the site w/paypall to try and get some media attention while doing goodworks in the name of firefly. If we can raise a significant amount of cash for that, we can feasibly get the attention of Whedon, networks, or other persons involved in the funding or creative process.

During this time we should all bust our tails trying to figure out clearly and exactly who owns what/who of the firefly/Serenity creative property, and what would need to be done to give whedon complete creative control of our series again.

If we can do this right, I definately see a strong probability of this working out to a pleasing end for all parties involved.

"Burn the movie, boil tv, you can't take my series from me ."

-K

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 9:54 AM

NEVAKEE

Sounds like a groundbreaking and good idea to me, if there are enough people to be found to support this.

A similar system worked before twice already for the two most recent albums of the group Marillion, which let their fans preorder their album (for a higher price, but with exclusive bonus material) before it is even written.
When the album is finally released, they sell bring it to the stores also by signing a contract with a label just for that purpose. The creative freedom and the rights for the music all remains completely in their own hands!

I'd say, if there would be a DVD-Set of the according Firefly Season included in the deal, there would be plenty of people who would support this. If there will be enough? Who knows if one doesn't try ;)

The amount to be given by each and every one, would have to be higher then (about 60-80$ maybe?), but when you really get something, like the DVDs, for your money , this idea will surely appeal to more people than when you donate just "for everyone" to get to see it.

I'd certainly be willing to pay 100$ or more for this (including DVDs that is)!

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:19 AM

THEANTIREAVER

Not every flan can afford to prop that much cash. I myself am an undergrad student heading towards a medical degree. I am piss poor. all the time, But I would save pennies to get to 40 bucks so I could see firefly again... I don't care about having a DVD sent to me. I can buy that on my own time (like maybe in 3 years...) or have it set on a wish list. Besides, more revenue for the people actually doing the work if we have to go out an buy the DVDs. (that means them being more inclined to make more episodes)

What I am looking for is maybe a website with a membership that gives people a few episodes for the show corresponding to the money they fronted for getting the show on her legs again.

I suppose the DVD thing would inspire a few people to pop money into the system, but how many more would it exclude? People should give what they can for a return for everyone.

Firefly was GOOD tv. It should be made availibile to the masses. There is so much crap with one dimensional characters doing stereotypical things on these days. If we can make shows like firefly who only have a cult following, availible to the types of people with basic cable, we can raise the bar, and make dynamic and original shows talked about, and expected from media giants.

A pay for your own DVD of the series keeps the signal on the downlow, private, and exclusive.

I mean, sure you get your DVDs...but there you are, alone in your living room with your DVDs and 3 other hardcore flans...completely disconnected from a world of people firefly could be inspiring, not interested in the cult of a 90$ box set for an obscure cancelled scifi because they have more pressing needs for their 90$.

I know it's harsh...but I am kinda a socialist like that.

"how is it that we find ourselves in an alliance friendly bar on every unification day?"

-K

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:22 AM

THEANTIREAVER

hell....if it gets that far we should just make it free to download from one site, for the general public. And if you really need something else to show for your money, we could set some cash aside for some t-shirt or ask whedon for some christmas cards...He'd do it. The man loves this show as much as we do

-K

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:40 PM

STONEY3K

I do have my doubts about this.

Although we Browncoats are a fanatic breed, and Joss also would like to see his universe worked out, we have a huge precedent we have to deal with... it's called Star Trek: Enterprise.

From the start of Enterprise, fans made efforts to keep it on the air. The totals at the end of season 4 went up to over 3 million dollars. But still UPN (the network that was airing the show) kept stiff and said the show was over. Even to the disappointment of the cast and most of the production crew, as the show was finally catching on in its fourth season.

I'm not sure what Fox has to say about the use of the Firefly series (there are a large amount of fan intiatives, although I'm not sure if there's a *serious* fan film project yet like in Trek) and the possibilities to make a fan-based work of the Firefly 'verse are readily available. It would even take less effort than a Trek series (you can build bridges and sets out of ordinary scrap material like they did on the *real* show, unlike Trek where you would build everything from scratch, and I'm not even mentioning costumes) and I'm pretty sure Joss would really endorse such an endeavour! Same goes for Eugene Roddenberry (Gene's son) who is involved in Star Trek: New Voyages.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:07 PM

THEANTIREAVER

I am not so much worried about the networks in that fashion. We don't need them to start a stalled car. We can do that ourselves by pushing and steering, we only need them for the pink slip and upkeep after it gets going again.

If memory and rumor serves me correctly, The new Battle Star Galactica was partially fan funded and heavily internet promoted. The New BSG pilot, was also availible for download and share to people who contributed to it financially. Then, I think.. it gradually got ramped onto networks like Space, and spike. for the general public after the fan base tempature was judged by those networks to be just right.

Set construction may or may not be easier, but that is whedon and his crew's work almost exclusively. It is our job to raise enough holy hell and cash to give them an oppertunity to build those sets and pilot a new season.

Lets see if we, within a month, by the end of christmas can convince a million enough Flans to pop maybe 20 bucks into a paypal charity fund to go to Joss's choice of charity to show him and the networks we are deadpan serious about funding.

If that works well, and we can show that we have the right level of organization or are at least are on the same page, then the next step will be raising money for a season 2 pilot for whedon to pitch.

If we can do that, and buy the hell out of Serenity and Firefly dvds, he may have enough money and ammunition to go straight to Space or spike with a pilot.

If he films in Canada or Australia he will get MAD govt. subsidies. Especially in BC and Ontario from what I know.

Or we could get a cap for a feasible series budget and put a united way thermometer on every firefly fan site and go for broke, hoping we can do it all without a network.

I'm a fan of starting a bit smaller with a charity test run, and then funding the pilot episode and seeing where that goes.

What do you guys think?

"Burn the movie, Boil tv, you can't keep my show from me."

-K

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:08 PM

CHINDI

Bumping this post so it gets looked over some more.. count me in.. I'd pony up at least $100 cashy money...

I think there is some validity to the naysayers BUT, ya know, if we always gave in to the ones who said it cannot be done.. well, we wouldn't be ON this space ship in the first place...

thinking outside the box is part of what made Serenity/Firefly so great.. this just continues that direction..

SO,,, waving my hands around and screaming at the TOP OF MY LUNGS>>> JOSS WHEDON.. CAN YOU HEAR THIS??? TAKE US BACK OUT IN TO THE BLACK!!!!

Chindi at the corner of NO and WHERE looking for the corner of SOME and PLACE!

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:31 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

"TAKE US BACK OUT IN TO THE BLACK!"

..and tell em we aint coming back!!!!

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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