Firefly premiere review (poor - with near total spoilage) by Hjermsted

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly premiere review (poor - with near total spoilage)

POSTED BY: HJERMSTED
UPDATED: Thursday, August 22, 2002 18:23
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4047
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Tuesday, August 20, 2002 10:44 AM

This guy (Robert A. Black) has been a pretty harsh Whedon/Mutant Enemy critic all summer. I get the feeling that his personal issues with the death of Tara are tainting his opinions of Firefly.

http://www.geocities.com/bbovenguy/Firefly.html

mattro

PS: this geocities site doesn't give you access every time, so you may need to try later.

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Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:03 PM

NOVAGRASS

This about sums up the entire review: "I'm sick and tired of watching Joss Whedon beat up on characters that I like."

I can't take this child's review to heart, not when he is seaking out things to pick apart. He seemed to look past the atrocious Birds of Prey pilot enough to find something to praise, why not give Firefly a chance without being influenced by another, relatively unrelated series?

Oh, that's right... only a mature person would judge something on its own merit.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

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Tuesday, August 20, 2002 12:40 PM

SHUGGIE

I had hoped for a more balanced view. I am interested in negative as well as positive reviews. However I think this review is very definitely coloured by the author's views on Tara's death on Buffy.

Which is a shame. He was at least articulate in his other essays, even when I disagreed, so I had hoped he would try to be even-handed.

Apparently he feels that 'favourite characters' should have some kind of immunity from bad things happening to them. And he describes himself as a writer. Odd.

Shug

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Tuesday, August 20, 2002 3:02 PM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:

Apparently he feels that 'favourite characters' should have some kind of immunity from bad things happening to them. And he describes himself as a writer. Odd.

Shug

I am getting increasingly tired of this crap.

I was going to go on a long rant about how immature and unhealthy the I-will-never-forgive-the-writers-for-killing-Tara-people are... but I realize such a rant is pointless. If they can't get over something like this, they shouldn't be watching Buffy. I don't want the stigma of fans disassociated from reality to be tainting the public's view of Buffy fandom, so good ridance, I say.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:26 AM

ZICSOFT

I no longer read any Dead Tara rants. Partly because everything worth saying seems to have been said, but mainly because the discussion is dominated by self-important nitwits who can't express themselves, and do so at great length.

Which maybe I shouldn't apply to this guy based on second-hand info. But if his review is full of spoilage, no way am I gonna even look at it.

I do miss all the dead people from Buffy. Even the bad guys. (No, especially the bad guys.) My one, small disappointment with Firefly is that Whedon didn't cast any of the actors he killed off on Buffy. I mean, does anybody here not have a crush on Robia LaMorte?

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:41 AM

MOJOECA

While he starts off with a detailed synopsis (which I didn't read), his conclusions at the end are spoiler-free. That's where he goes off about Whedon punishing his favorite characters. It's so sad, it's almost amusing. Joss thinks happy people are not good drama? Shocker.

--- Joe

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:16 AM

SHUGGIE

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
I no longer read any Dead Tara rants. Partly because everything worth saying seems to have been said, but mainly because the discussion is dominated by self-important nitwits who can't express themselves, and do so at great length.

Which maybe I shouldn't apply to this guy based on second-hand info. But if his review is full of spoilage, no way am I gonna even look at it.

If you do want to look at his Tara essays here's a link to one http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/themessage.html - which contains links to the other. Assuming you're up to date with Buffy nothing spoilery there.

I keep meaning to write to him and explain how he's shot himself in the foot with the comparison with Nichole Nichols on ST:TOS. His point is that in introducing Uhura Roddenberry was challenging the prejudices of the day, but unlike Whedon he doesn't cop-out and revert to stereotype.

It's an interesting comparison because actually Uhura was a glorified receptionist in space. So it's not like it was an absolute resounding victory for black female actors is it? However it was a major step forward. And this is my problem - that most of the people who criticize Joss for Tara's death are failing to recognize that they are criticizing someone who took one of the biggest steps forward for gay characters in a long time. It's like you crucify the people who help your cause because they don't quite go far enough. They dare to have another agenda - the story - rather than just be pure propagandists.

Quote:
I do miss all the dead people from Buffy. Even the bad guys. (No, especially the bad guys.) My one, small disappointment with Firefly is that Whedon didn't cast any of the actors he killed off on Buffy. I mean, does anybody here not have a crush on Robia LaMorte?

Oh yeah.

Shug

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:45 AM

HJERMSTED

Having read all three of Mr. Black's Tara-related essays all I can say is...

Let's not forget that there is still at least one strong lesbian role model on TV and her name is Willow. She just doesn't happen to be in a relationship at the moment (I'm told this happens to lesbians in real life too).

I'm confident Marty and Joss will let the Willow character find a new gal to love (within context of the show and not in some effort to appease the G/L/Bi community). This is what would happen in real life and then we could finally put all of this bogus "controversy" to bed.

Take off those bitterness goggles, Mr. Black! BTVS is still the best show on TV. Firefly is going to rock as well.

Wanna see what happens to a show where all the characters are perpetually safe? Watch Smallville! I guarantee you none of the main characters will ever be killed off on that tepid show.

Mattro

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 10:02 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
I keep meaning to write to him and explain how he's shot himself in the foot with the comparison with Nichole Nichols on ST:TOS. His point is that in introducing Uhura Roddenberry was challenging the prejudices of the day, but unlike Whedon he doesn't cop-out and revert to stereotype.

Well, I guess. Uhura was just part of the whole "Internation Crew" thing, of which Sulu was also a part. Uhura was supposed to be from Africa, and Sulu was supposed to be some kind of poly-national Asian. Which was pretty forward for the time (some southern stations refused to carry the ep where Kirk and Uhuru kiss) but not all that enlightened. It would have been a lot more englightened if there had been American characters of African or Asian descent (as there are in real life) and if the central characters and almost all the guest stars (including all the aliens!) had not been conspicuously white Notremericanos.

Quote:

It's an interesting comparison because actually Uhura was a glorified receptionist in space.

Hey, that's not true. She was shown flying the ship and working on the comm hardware -- with a soldering iron! (Very amusing to see those scenes and observe "futuristic" hardware with non-integrated components!) Anyway, it wasn't that big a part, especially when they started dispensing with secondary crew characters in most eps. But it was bigger than that!

Quote:
...they are criticizing someone who took one of the biggest steps forward for gay characters in a long time.

Yeah, except that JW didn't have any such agenda. He just wanted to introduce a new witch character, and it just naturally evolved that she was gay. Which is precisely why the character was so appealing.

Which points out a fact that everybody keeps losing sight of: Whedon is first and last a storyteller. All the high concepts, all the fancy geek stuff, all the special effects, and yes, all the characters are just means to that end. If Tara had been invented for any purpose other than to tell a story, she'd be a lot more boring than she is -- maybe as boring as these silly political arguments.

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 10:04 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:

Let's not forget that there is still at least one strong lesbian role model on TV and her name is Willow.

Gawd, I hope not. I do not watch TV shows that feature "role models"!!!

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Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:23 PM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
If you do want to look at his Tara essays here's a link to one http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/themessage.html - which contains links to the other.

Oh, that guy. He was who I had in mind with "nothing to say at great length".

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:21 AM

SHUGGIE

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Oh, that guy. He was who I had in mind with "nothing to say at great length".

I usually manage almost nothing at fairly great length myself

Shug

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:57 AM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Quote:
If you do want to look at his Tara essays here's a link to one http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/themessage.html - which contains links to the other.
Oh, that guy. He was who I had in mind with "nothing to say at great length".

The guy's a moron. Here he is saying that he's not trying to force Whedon to change his story, and then he's saying that mystical muses gave Whedon a gift and that he should have changed his story to accomodate said gift.

"But Tara wasn't just any character. There was much more of an emotional investment in her. There was much more of a social investment in her. Tara wasn't just a recurring character fulfilling her destiny of dying as a plot device. She had grown into much more, and Mutant Enemy knew it. But instead of looking at Tara's significance in the light of social responsibility, Mutant Enemy saw nothing but a means to their own ends."

Social responsibibility, nothing. Storytellers do not have any sort of obligation to society. If that were so, we would never have seen the Uhura/Kirk kiss, we would never have seen "Will and Grace," and we certainly wouldn't have seen Willow/Tara because these things slap society in the face and show it the wrongs of its ways. If storytellers had a social responsibility, there would be no innovation, no progress on television, let alone other forms of creative media.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:11 AM

GUANTES

Quote:
Originally posted by Novagrass:
The guy's a moron.

I quote you now since I can't say it any better myself! I actually took the time to bother to read his article, since I had blanked it for the sake of not wanting to hear his pointless reminicing about characters lost, but hey I was bored.

Now I'm not good with accents (bear with me here) and in fact I was talking to Haken the other day about just this subject.... but have you read his bit on Badger?

Quote:

Their business contact is an unshaven guy who wears an old-fashioned suit and a bowler and speaks with some sort of accent - Australian, perhaps. I'm not sure.

No even I know that is not an Australian accent! Okay points for admitting he's not sure, but still!

Anyway his whole review is dismissive as well and if you are looking for an accurate account without the obviously hostile tone, this is not the place! He hasn't really given Firefly a chance since you can see by the review that he hasn't paid enough attention to pick up on what is going on and what the characters are really like.

In short the guy has given this zero time, but only seen it as a way of getting at Joss. Even though I doubt it has come close to succeeding at that.

Sigh.... Rant over nothing to see here!

Phil
"I'm not ashamed. It's the computer age. Nerds are in. They're still in, right?" -Willow

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:22 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.

For the record, Mark Sheppard was born in the UK. I assume his accent is most likely English. You can ask him yourself by submitting an interview question.

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:25 AM

GUANTES

It is its a Cockney London accent.

Phil

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 12:00 PM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Oh, that guy. He was who I had in mind with "nothing to say at great length".

I usually manage almost nothing at fairly great length myself

Shug

Well, then be careful with posts like that. Much too concise and to the point! You have a reputation to maintain!

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Thursday, August 22, 2002 6:23 PM

JERRY

Mr Black is pretty much the Minister of Propaganda for the Kitten Board, and IMO his review really has no merit outside of that context. His review of Hamlet would be "Shakespeare kills beloved character".

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