The Actual Chance of a BDS by ubergeek

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

UBer, I agree 100%..I think the numbers are getting better every day. I would love to know the updated Serenity sales myself...Does anyone have them?

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:01 PM

CAPTURE

Hi ubergeek,

I feel your frustration, not hearing any thing tends to get one's hope down, however, even if we never see any Firefly again, at least we are all trying to bring something back that we passionetly love, and more then that we are bringing our community of Firefly fans together. Some where out there we are being heard, and even though we may not be heard by the "right people" who can give us what we want, we are being heard. Don't forget it took quit some time between the series ending and the BDM to come out, so one year with out news of a BDS is really not a big damn deal.

Don't lose the faith ubergeek, we have each other, we have Joss, the potential is there!!!

And if that's not enough for you check out the fan made parody of Firefly "Mosiquito". It is utterly hilirious, and should hopefully put a smile on your face! And it also shows how hard we're all still working!

Welcome to FFF.net and welcome to our family,were glad you came! Hope you like it here
as much as we do!

XOXOXOXO

Capture

P.S. you can see "Mosquito" on youtube, I'll even find the link for you!

ain't had nothing
twixt my nethers...weren't run on batteries.
Yup...still single...

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:05 PM

CAPTURE

Hi again ubergeek,

Here is that "Mosquito" link I promised!

Hope you enjoy it!

Capture

ain't had nothing
twixt my nethers...weren't run on batteries.
Yup...still single...

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:14 PM

ZZETTA13

UBERGEER,first of all welcome if you're new.

Second, you may be very right but the day I give up on getting any more Joss/verse will be the day I stop coming to FFF.net

Just an update around my home. We have become interested in a couple other tv series that are still in production. These shows are good. The acting is good and the situations are interesting. But at the same time they are no Firefly. This show was so good. The writting,action, special f/x and above all the acting can't be beat. The actors hitting their marks was so believable it blows my mind.There needs to be more.

Z,out

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:21 PM

you can't give up hope, there WILL be more.

End of line.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:27 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE

Quote:
Originally posted by ubergeek:
And because Universal and Joss have been VERRY MUM on the DVD sales #'s it does not look good.

I wonder if part of it doesn't stem from so many people who expect a second and third movie? They don't just want one. They expect it. Matrix got a trilogy. Star Wars got two trilogies. Many other movies got trilogies (whether or not they deserved them is material for several other threads.) So of course Serenity will get a trilogy. Right? Now give us the movie, dammit or we'll hold our breath!!!

Joss reportedly put a lot of personal and professional energy into Firefly: first into getting Fox to buy the series, then in shopping the series about town, then in getting Serenity greenlighted. From hints dropped throughout the official Serenity companion, and various interviews he's given the past year, I get the impression that he's a bit tired of fighting for Every. Last. Thing. Joss - any writer, actually - wants to be able to tell his stories the way he sees / hears them *without* having to prove his right to exist at every third step. Yet apparently he had to fight Fox to get the series on and keep it (relatively) free of alterations; and he had to reconfigure his story to fit into a two-hour epic-movie format as opposed to the longer, more richly detailed tales he seems to prefer to tell. When Joss got Universal to greenlight a Serenity feature film, he won. Sort of. Yes, he got to work with a cast he apparently enjoys, telling a story all of them apparently enjoy. But he still didn't get to tell his story. On top of that, he's been hearing demands for more-more-MORE for...what...at least a year now. When people thank you for telling your stories, and enthuse about them (and you), it feeds the soul. When people demand that you finish telling *your* stories to *their* satisfaction, it sours the thing a bit. Suddenly, you're not quite sharing the love any more. The one side demands - the other side provides. It becomes less of a shared labor of love and more of an obligation.

For my own part, the instant someone begins to expect something I'd otherwise give them freely - like my assistance with their web stuff, help cleaning up their house or running errands, or what have you - I suddenly begin to feel put upon. And cross. And rather vexed. (Okay, I turn into a petulant nelly.)

I don't know if that's how Joss feels about the situation; and I'm sure that if he got some kind of offer to produce a Firefly-universe audio-media somethingorothereth, he'd go for it. But possibly, Joss' and Universals' keeping mum on the DVD sales numbers is an attempt to stave off the waves of near-entitlement coming from a small portion of Firefly fandom.

Or maybe not. What do I know? I'm surmising like sixty. No fact above, just speculation and projection. Armchair quarterbacking. Pablum pop psychology. (Pablum Pop Psych. That looks like the name of a garage band...)

********************************************

That doom and gloom spewed forth, I think that it's possible that the studios could start taking the longer view and start using a "first season" as an initial marketing vehicle for a direct-to-DVD series. Or miniseries. I have no idea what changes in the production process might occur, if filming didn't have to adhere to the now-traditional yearly windows of August-to-April. I also don't know the profitability of broadcast versus DVD, so I have no idea how attractive such an additional venue might be to the studios. Still...I don't know that hopes for a movie, a miniseries, or a series are really set - one way or the other.

(Personally, I'm holding out hope for a miniseries or series. Movies are too short to tell everything properly; and comic books don't let all of them work together. Plus, if they're all working...vive la paycheque.)

A second series is possible. An audio series is possible. Comic books are, apparently, happening. This story may not continue immediately, it may only continue in comic book form, it may suddenly be taken into the loving and unmeddlesome arms of a television studio with spare funding (they really truly do exist. They live on the same block as the unicorns.) But we just don't know yet, do we?

All we can do is keep enjoying what we've been given, keep sharing our own visions of this story, and keep thanking Joss, the cast, the writers, directors, musicians, costumers, and everyone who brings these stories to us in their many forms.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:33 PM

I hope we don't come off as sounding like we are "demanding" anything of Joss. I would like to think he understands that we love his 'verse, are very thankful, and hope to have more in any form....

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:48 PM

UBERGEEK

To me it seems form interviews That Joss loves this verse. And it seemed that he would be close with Universal and would be constently checking to get updates on if it's going to happen. I would think (again form Joss's comments that I've read/seen) that if there was even a shimmer of hope he would mention it to his fans.

Oh, and I don't feel im entitled to Joss's story. If Joss comes out and says "You know what, The story is over. I feel happy with where it is an im not going to presue it any more" I would stop hoping for firefly. I would of course be bumbed that Firefly would be no more. But I would not get Irate and start saying "Joss took *my* story away form me" no I would just lett it pass. Cuase its Joss's story, and he is just sharing it.

This whole thing is a rant about how little info has been given to us. (not an angry rant mind you, just a kind "so, uh, whats going on?") I personly find It great that Joss is doing new comics. I love the fact that he still wants to coninue *his* story.

uh i think i covered it. but i'm going to re-read your poted again to see if there was anything i missed (nice posted btw LaughingMuse)

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:49 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
I hope we don't come off as sounding like we are "demanding" anything of Joss. I would like to think he understands that we love his 'verse, are very thankful, and hope to have more in any form....

From my own view, a very small percentage come off as demanding. I've seen people get publicly angry and cranky about Joss' decisions to do this or that - to the point that they type things like "I can't ever watch anything by Joss Whedon ever again because he killed/marooned/broke up thus-and-such character." If I had created something that I loved, and thought that others would love it too, I would be either saddened or outright pissed off to hear of comments like the above. (Keep in mind, I have no idea how Joss reacted /reacts when he hears about such things. I can only really know my own thoughts; and those only on alternate Wednesdays.)

On the other hand, I also think that he not only knows that there's a lot of love out here, but that he occasionally piles it up and rolls in it. I think that, as with nearly any other human, it sustains him to know that several someones get a real buzz out of a story he told.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:56 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE

Quote:
Originally posted by ubergeek:
To me it seems form interviews That Joss loves this verse. And it seemed that he would be close with Universal and would be constently checking to get updates on if it's going to happen. I would think (again form Joss's comments that I've read/seen) that if there was even a shimmer of hope he would mention it to his fans.

I do know that after I've worked on a trouble-prone project for a long time, I tend to get a bit tired of the fighting. I want to finish the project to a decent stopping point, rest, regroup, and then see if / how I'm going to resume the project. Joss might be resting when it comes to the Firefly series hopes, or he may simply be in 'stealth mode' to keep the pressure lighter on himself and any potential business partner(s). I have absotively no clue.

Quote:
Oh, and I don't feel im entitled to Joss's story. If Joss comes out and says "You know what, The story is over. I feel happy with where it is an im not going to presue it any more" I would stop hoping for firefly. I would of course be bumbed that Firefly would be no more. But I would not get Irate and start saying "Joss took *my* story away form me" no I would just lett it pass. Cuase its Joss's story, and he is just sharing it.

Your post didn't sound demanding, or outraged that you weren't being kept up-to-date, or anything extreme and possibly odd-glance-catching. (Thus far, no one in this thread has sounded anything other than in love with the 'verse, hopeful for more, and interested in any information that may happen to emerge...but not demanding or cranky.) I was just being a bit too general in my original reply. It's Lecturer's Disease. My teeth itch when various speculative fiction authors drop into that mode, yet I seem to inflict it on others readily enough.

Quote:
Originally posted by ubergeek:
(nice posted btw LaughingMuse)

Thanks! Apologies, though, for the length. (I've been AFK all weekend and am making up for lost time...)

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

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Monday, August 14, 2006 10:09 PM

All these repy's made me almost cry realizing there maybe never a series or movie but we can't think like that we're Browncoats never give up...actually didn't the Browncoats try to win but failed even they were on the right side,that kinda sounds like us Browncoats.But we should never give up.

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 10:54 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Hi ubergeek, welcome to the board!

The guys here have already given you the facts, so I'm just adding my voice to darkfly's cheerful war cry. It was a loooong wait between the series and the movie, but the movie happened. We do the impossible, for we are mighty. Or more correctly Joss does the impossible since he's the mighty one. We know that Joss, the writers, the actors and the crew all fell in love with the verse. If any movie were going to get that impossible sequel it would be this one.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:02 AM

MICJWELCH

Has anybody noticed the similarities between Star Trek and Firefly? Both were cancelled tv series that became movies. Star Trek has had - What? - Five series and going on eleven movies now? It took something like twelve years to get that first movie. For Firefly it took (I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this) I think two years. That first Star Trek movie SUCKED, and they overcame it. We have an awesome movie. I just had someone come up to me yesterday and tell me about how he saw Serenity. He only watched it because I won't shut up about it. He was not disappointed. The fan base will keep growing. I really feel that it is not a question of IF, but a question of WHEN.

Personally though, I don't want another movie. I'll take what I can get of course, but I would prefer either to continue the series or to have a mini-series. And I don't want to demand anything. I just want to give Joss Whedon a chance to finish what he started.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:53 AM

The only problem was the first Star Trek movie was very popular,not trying to put Serenity down but it didn't make that much money even though before it came out all the pre-screenings sold out in minutes or hours & it recieved excellent reviews especially in the UK every movie mag was giving it 5 stars apart from a few whic give it 4 stars.I think the reason it wasn't popular was actually partly Universal's fault they wanted to do something which no movie company does they tried to advertise by word of mouth instead of loads of advertising come on which option would get the most people into the cinema,it's pretty obvious.

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:10 AM

ZZETTA13

There are some very good points made by all of the posts above. Like it was said Joss has been fighting for this show for a long time now. He may be getting tired. But we love the show as well so we're taking up the fight along with him. It's sad to think that a person can put so much of themselves into a work/project then be completely written off. It all came down to numbers. fox didn't have the viewer numbers and Universal didn't have the money numbers. Well I blame fox more that anyone. The viewer numbers were off not because ppl didn't like the show. It was only because they never found the show. It wasn't given a chance. Had there been a season two I think the Firefly series would have found it's audience and the viewer numbers would have increased by leaps and bounds. It makes me sad to know the cast and crew were given their death rites the night of their Holiday party.

Anyhoo now for a small victory. last night I was talking to my wife when my youngest son came in and said."Dad I'll watch some Firefly with you." I nearly dropped. We ended up watching the first dvd of the series and he loved it. Plans are to watch more tonight. We'll see what happens.

Z,out

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:15 AM

That's the spirit but how old is your son cause not all the episodes are suitable for younger kids(like under 11).

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:19 AM

CAUSAL

My only frustration with the whole thing (and I'll not go in for doom and gloom in this thread) is that with only a couple of exceptions, the people that I've introduced Firefly to have loved it. They haven't become browncoat-wearing-fanatics like us, but they're definitely fans enough to go see a movie, were one offered. It's not the product that failed. It was the marketing.

*end transmission*

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:37 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Quote:
Originally posted by Darkfly:
That's the spirit but how old is your son cause not all the episodes are suitable for younger kids(like under 11).

Really, you think so? I can't think of anything in the series that is particularily unsuitable for anyone.

-------------------------------------------------

I do not kill with my hand.
He who kills with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:50 AM

-------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:05 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

I'm gonna start a new topic on 'is firefly suitable for kids' as it's way off topic. I'd be interested to hear your responses over there tho.

-------------------------------------------------

I do not kill with my hand.
He who kills with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:07 AM

SIMONWHO

I think we can agree our chances of a sequel reside mostly with Joss and how strong his desire is to continue the franchise.

Fortunately/unfortunately there is a clear signal that will tell us when he's given up - as the cast have said elsewhere, if nothing more is going to happen, they'll tell us the secrets of the show - what Book's past was, what Inara was running from, what was Nathan wearing under that dress... they'll tell us all. I hope they do it via a medium like a comic book or an approved novel but whichever way it comes, there's still hope until those secrets get spilled.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:39 AM

THEDUKE333

Hello All,
I lurk every day, but i thought I'd weigh in now. I personally believe we wont be seeing any video form of Firefly/Serenity again. Comics for sure and possibly books in our verse (which I'll buy) but not a new series,mini-series or movie. I know this is not a popular theory and I will get flamed, but I dont think I'm alone in this belief.
Do I want to see more movies or a new series? It scares me how much I want that! But from every interview from the cast and from everything Joss has said, I believe it's over in video form.
From non-fans looking at Joss's resume Firefly was a failure. His directorial debut was so-so. Now not the quality, but being measured by the only thing that matters....money. I met Joss on set when i was an extra and then I saw him again at one of the browncoat screenings months later. He literally was 20 pounds lighter. Stress is fun and all but it was physically taking a toll on him. He has moved on and Wonder Women and Goners and X-men comics are plenty.
Until all of that is gone and someone comes to him and offers him a chance to do another movie, he isnt persuing this anymore (IMO) Which unfortunately is unlikely, because when the bean counters add up all the proceeds,I feel the movie will just come in the black.
Yes I'm bummed that crappy movies are getting sequels, but that just reminds me that the first one must have made money and the bean counters feel they can make more.
It has been a wonderful ride and i will also cherish how lucky I was. I do sleep better knowing that Joss Whedon is still alive and using that imagination of his. So I will just have to look forward to his next creation.

Sorry for being so long winded,

TheDuke333

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Darkfly:
That's the spirit but how old is your son cause not all the episodes are suitable for younger kids(like under 11).

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

I agree It's really the "whoring" thing. Most six year olds have seen Star Wars and understand about death in SCI-Fi movies..Problem is in FF the characters seem more "real". In my experience the same child who can watch Obiwan get lightsabered and not ask a question about it, does not see Mal kicking a guy through a moving engine the same way. Why is that?

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:00 AM

I've edited this post cause it's got nothing to do with the orginal idea but if you want to talk about what's suitable & all that go to this link
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=23113&m=361252#361252

Remember it's only my view so you don't have to take it so seriously.

-------------------------------------------------
Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:11 AM

ZZETTA13

DARKFLY not to be alarmed, I know where you're coming from with the age thing and I agree, but my son(the youngest) is 19. His older brother is 21. I've just about got my older son and his girlfriend roped into watching the pilot eps with me. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Hopefuly when I set the hook it will be hook, line and sinker (in fishing terms). They'll want to watch the rest.

CASUAL and THEDUKE333 I agree with you guys. Well somewhat. CASUAL, yep there are many browncoats,Ok not exactly brown but beige maybe. These folk love Firefly/Serenity just not to the point of joining forums and participating in browncoat events (My wife being one). They would/could be interested in seeing a sequel or more FF.

THEDUKE333,some good points, but I hope you're wrong. Comics are one thing and I do pick some up from my friends bookshop. But lets hope for the return of work for the actors. Maybe that's living in a fantasy world but hey, what about the Star Wars, Star Trek, Aliens and all the other fandoms. Escapism has no limits. I'm wishing for a co-zillionare to step forward and tell these studios that he (or she) will bankroll our next round of FF. I'll bet said richie wouldn't loose any money.I'll even throw in the mudders milk free of charge. Now if I win the lotto,no worries. If someone sees Joss tell him to go ahead and send me Inara's phone number

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:16 AM

I think there's actually a very good chance of another series, as Fox at least must be aware of the huge sales in the DVD market.

But, the big question is whether the original cast will be available when the day comes.
As they all move onto other projects, or start breaking into the movie market, are they going to have time to commit to another 'x' amount of episodes. (And more importantly, as 'star' values rise, will the producers be able to afford them?).
That isn't to try and sound negative, but if (or when) Firefly's resurrected, will it ever be the same show as before?

It also depends greatly on whether Joss will have the time to be actively involved, or whether others will take the show over. Been the subject of another thread, but if you've ever watched Andromeda, the quality is good - up until the point RHW left. Then it just became another sci-fi series - had its good moments, but never really recaptured its energy properly.

I think as others have mentioned, Universal didn't publicise Serenity nearly enough. It was great that they payrolled the movie, but without great advertising to back it up, it was always going to be a 'must see' more for fans. It's gathering pace in the DVD market, but whether sales justify Universal making a sequel, only time will tell.
Personally, and this is only my opinion, I think it was a mistake making a movie. Serenity's a great film, as befits an excellent series, but condensing what could've been a whole series into 1 hour 54 minutes meant a lot of detail being left out.
Even in the extras on the DVD, I get the impression that Joss regretted this as well, particularly having to cut certain scenes to keep the movie flowing.
It was a real tragedy that Universal didn't (or couldn't) go with at least a 4 part mini series. I guess Fox have the rights nicely stitched up as regards that.

So to end on a positive, I think there's every chance of a new series. But whether it'll be the same as the show we know and love is in the lap of the gods. We may even end up with Firefly - The Next Generation, with none of the original cast at all!!!
I know that isn't a popular outlook (hell, it's not even an outlook I like), but it's just trying to be realistic. There's nothing I'd love more than another 120+ episodes with the original cast AND Joss at the helm, but I don't see that happening at the moment.

All we can do, as virtually everyone says, is spread the word, get more fans involved, and show the studios that Firefly's a very viable proposition.
And to do that, we'd probably need a head count of how many Firefly/Serenity fans there actually are. This is probably the biggest board in terms of members, but there must be many more fans out there who haven't joined.
I think I remember reading once (re: Star Trek being cancelled), that the studios used to view each fan letter received as counting as 100 people. I guess the rationale behind this was that many people can love a show, but few bother to write in. In that case, a rough calculation shows that there may be 2,100,000 fans, using the member count on here alone. My guess is it's much higher than that.
May be accurate, may not, but it does make you think. It's a shame there's no way of pooling all the Firefly sites members, removing duplicate members, and coming up with an overall figure.
If we could go to Fox/Universal and say we have 'x' number of fans still actively posting, it might make them sit up and listen.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 7:26 AM

If there's money to be made, a studio will make a production. It's true that the box office returns for Serenity were lower than hoped for. (There are several legitimate arguments regarding the promotion, or perhaps insufficiency thereof, which can be made in that regard... but that's another thread topic.) The thing is that there are now far more Firefly/Serenity fans now than there were last year when Serenity was released. Serenity itself created those new fans... plus the word of mouth of existing fans and very real Firefly and Serenity DVD sales that continue quite well on Amazon.

The reason why fans have a legitimate hope for sequels is that the cast all signed 3 picture contracts with Universal for Serenity. Their contracts all have a built-in clause for a trilogy.

Joss wants to tell more stories of the 'Verse, he has stated that he has hundreds of yet untold stories. The cast love playing their roles, and they genuinely enjoy working together. The fans of course will respond immediately to more incarnations of the 'Verse. Though Serenity did not make huge profits when it was released, and low numbers were the story for all movies released during that same time, Serenity did receive overwhelmingly great reviews and many awards.

So here's where it's at:

• Joss wants to do more.
• The cast want to do more.
• The fans are aching to have more.
• The production itself was widely acclaimed.

The ONLY thing missing from the above formula for green lighting a sequel is "Great box office returns". That's it. Just comes down to getting bigger audience numbers... connecting more with main stream audiences. A studio wants to make money. They are not going to say "no" to a profitable franchise. The thing is, Serenity's profits weren't that bad, and the movie has climbed into profit with the DVD sales. But the returns weren't in the blockbuster range, and Universal has to think how best to utilize their wonderful new acquisition: Joss Whedon.

Universal has a highly valuable resource in getting Joss under contract. They feel at this point that Joss working on a production that has a built-in familiarity with the public, like Wonder Woman, and is a far easier "sell" promotion-wise, is a great way to use his talents... profit-wise. Super hero movies, using highly established and popular characters, are practically guaranteed huge money makers. Can you blame Universal for wanting to turn their brilliant new acquisition loose on a super hero franchise that is tailor made for his sensibilities? Of course not. So Universal wants to direct his talents in that direction for a while... and make some big bucks. Well, good for them! ('course, it's frustrating for we who want more Serenity, NOW... )

Universal is most likely biding its time and seeing how things develop after the release of Serenity. If the fan base keeps growing, if the DVD sales stay strong, if the merchandise keeps selling, then there will be good reason for them to mount another production in the future. Again, they are a busines and they want to make money.

Once they see that the audience numbers justify another investment, Universal will be glad to press that green light.

11th Hour

P.S.
I personally would prefer some type of return to a series on TV, even if the seasons were shorter like the shows on HBO. Firefly/Serenity really bloom when they have the space and time to expand the stories and explore the characters. Remember, Universal owns the Sci-Fi Network so they do have a built-in way to distribute their television productions.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 7:41 AM

UBERGEEK

The problem with the reason that I think a new series won't be made is because Joss refuses to work with fox again. And I would bet that Fox has full controll of the rights and probbaly wont sell them.

And yes, It did take some time for Serenity to be made. But usualy (and im talking generalities here) Sequels are *announced* in the first year or a little after. In the terms of a movie, The more time Passes Is a bad thing. As Dinalt wrote, the actors wont allways beable to do a movie. They Might be doing other things.

Reading interviews from the Actors and Joss, it looks like they are loosing hope. And not because of the fan base, which is always growing. Because I think they are sick of waiting for the movie, and I think that Joss (as this has been said before) I getting sick of fighting just to tell his story.

I remember seeing an Interview with Adam Baldwin. He stated that the *earlyist* that they could start production of the film would be 2008. And even that date wouldnt be certain. Cause you would have to wait or the actors to all be avalable.

Its not a question of giving up hope. Its a question of math.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 7:52 AM

WHITEFALL

Totally agree with 11th hour, but one thing i'd like to state, restate, cause it seems to be missing from the thread.

JOSS. IS. BUSY. AT THE MOMENT.

He is signed up to write Wonder Woman, and then he is doing a seperate project, Goners. That means, he cant do more firefly or serenity until he's finished those.

Quite frankly, I'm happy for him, happy for all of us. If wonder woman is a big success (and I really think it will be: it's got the male demographic from being a super hero wearing not much, it's got the women for being a woman super hero, it's got the fans of WW, it's got browncoats, and who knows, if word gets out it's being written by a feminist, we might even get some of the older folk), then Joss will be really cool. He'll be "Joss Whedon of Wonder Woman fame". Now I know we wanted him to have that from Serenity, but it was an unknown franchise, with unknown actors, and it was badly marketed. O, and here's another thing, I'm almost positive of:

Serenity DID break even, with about 25mil domestic, about 13mil world, and a ton more from DVDs, they did make their money back, and Uni is making profit. So a sequel isnt out the door. And they must understand that Serenity will make even more fans.

So, the way I see it, Joss is on a major project that markets itself (something Serenity couldnt do) plus maybe having a real marketing campaign, he'll raise in respectability, and that might even carry goners to success. If those work out, he'll have more freedom to do stuff, and frankly, if there is a serenity sequel, he could carry the ads better as "the writer/director of WW".

So that's my hopeful vision. It means waiting a few more years and all, but it's hopeful.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
Totally agree with 11th hour, but one thing i'd like to state, restate, cause it seems to be missing from the thread.

JOSS. IS. BUSY. AT THE MOMENT.

He is signed up to write Wonder Woman, and then he is doing a seperate project, Goners. That means, he cant do more firefly or serenity until he's finished those.

Quite frankly, I'm happy for him, happy for all of us. If wonder woman is a big success (and I really think it will be: it's got the male demographic from being a super hero wearing not much, it's got the women for being a woman super hero, it's got the fans of WW, it's got browncoats, and who knows, if word gets out it's being written by a feminist, we might even get some of the older folk), then Joss will be really cool. He'll be "Joss Whedon of Wonder Woman fame". Now I know we wanted him to have that from Serenity, but it was an unknown franchise, with unknown actors, and it was badly marketed. O, and here's another thing, I'm almost positive of:

Serenity DID break even, with about 25mil domestic, about 13mil world, and a ton more from DVDs, they did make their money back, and Uni is making profit. So a sequel isnt out the door. And they must understand that Serenity will make even more fans.

So, the way I see it, Joss is on a major project that markets itself (something Serenity couldnt do) plus maybe having a real marketing campaign, he'll raise in respectability, and that might even carry goners to success. If those work out, he'll have more freedom to do stuff, and frankly, if there is a serenity sequel, he could carry the ads better as "the writer/director of WW".

So that's my hopeful vision. It means waiting a few more years and all, but it's hopeful.

"But, these strong women characters?"

I hope you are right. I just have a bad feeling about Wonder Woman and the box office. I try to start a buzz amongst my guy friends and they could care less. These are the same guys who talked about upcoming titles Hulk, Superman, Batman, Daredevil etc, endlessly... One could look at Electra for a positive outcome for Joss. But even that was so-so. And to be honest I don't think doing a serious Super hero movie is what he is good at. I know he does a great job with women characters. But most of the beauty in his work lies in the witty and comical dialogue...that will not work in Wonder Woman. I only bring this up because I believe the future of FF in motion pictures relies on Joss not having another "flop"..It will be back to TV land. And the death of FireFly.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ubergeek:
The problem with the reason that I think a new series won't be made is because Joss refuses to work with fox again. And I would bet that Fox has full controll of the rights and probbaly wont sell them.

How do you know FOX wouldn't be willing to strike some deal? If the price was attractive enough, they could be persuaded to sell. Maybe Universal wouldn't have to buy the rights, some type of profit sharing with FOX could be worked out.

It's quite possible that something could be worked out. If FOX were totally unwilling to make deals, they never would have allowed Joss to shop the project around after Firefly was cancelled.

Quote:
And yes, It did take some time for Serenity to be made. But usualy (and im talking generalities here) Sequels are *announced* in the first year or a little after. In the terms of a movie, The more time Passes Is a bad thing. As Dinalt wrote, the actors wont allways beable to do a movie. They Might be doing other things.

It can get tricky to coordinate the schedules of several different actors. But actors are always moving from job to job, arrangements can be made. The thing is, these actors love playing these roles so they are highly motivated to rework their schedules. Roles like these come around so very rarely. The chance to play such memorable characters, written extraordinarily well, is worth the effort to make happen.

As for the timing of when sequels are announced... not sure just how much any "rules" apply to Firefly/Serenity. This also isn't your standard Hollywood franchise. The next incarnation of the 'Verse may very well likely not be the regular way studios do things.

Quote:
Reading interviews from the Actors and Joss, it looks like they are loosing hope. And not because of the fan base, which is always growing. Because I think they are sick of waiting for the movie, and I think that Joss (as this has been said before) I getting sick of fighting just to tell his story.

Joss has stated that the next time he is the one who will need to be approached. He wants to continue the 'Verse, and it's understandable that he doesn't want to keep fighting to the degree that he has. It would be too exhausting, and too much of an expense of physical and psychic energy over the long haul. Makes total sense for him to move to the position where he is the one to be approached. He's also allowing the audience and popularity of the 'Verse to speak for itself.

Quote:
I remember seeing an Interview with Adam Baldwin. He stated that the *earlyist* that they could start production of the film would be 2008. And even that date wouldnt be certain. Cause you would have to wait or the actors to all be avalable.

Isn't so much that a studio must "wait" for them to be available so much as "plan" for it. With enough lead-in time the actors can make adjustments to their schedules.

Who knows, it might be the case that many of the actors will have hit a period where the roles they're considering are just not that exciting to them. They could be thrilled to make time in their schedule to return to the roles, as Joss has said, "they were born to play".

Quote:
Its not a question of giving up hope. Its a question of math.

Things can be arranged... you just gotta be good at math.

11th Hour

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
Totally agree with 11th hour, but one thing i'd like to state, restate, cause it seems to be missing from the thread.

JOSS. IS. BUSY. AT THE MOMENT.

He is signed up to write Wonder Woman, and then he is doing a seperate project, Goners. That means, he cant do more firefly or serenity until he's finished those.

A valid point. But Joss has stated that the next Serenity movie would be directed by Tim Minear.

Joss doesn't have to be a fully hands on with the next incarnations of the 'Verse. He has outstanding people who have worked with him for years to take up some of the roles that he did. Joss would remain at the helm, guiding everything, but he wouldn't have to be as totally emersed as he was with Serenity.

11th Hour

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
I hope you are right. I just have a bad feeling about Wonder Woman and the box office. I try to start a buzz amongst my guy friends and they could care less. These are the same guys who talked about upcoming titles Hulk, Superman, Batman, Daredevil etc, endlessly... One could look at Electra for a positive outcome for Joss. But even that was so-so. And to be honest I don't think doing a serious Super hero movie is what he is good at. I know he does a great job with women characters. But most of the beauty in his work lies in the witty and comical dialogue...that will not work in Wonder Woman. I only bring this up because I believe the future of FF in motion pictures relies on Joss not having another "flop"..It will be back to TV land. And the death of FireFly.

100% in agreement with you there. I hope it does work out, and Wonder Woman's a great success.
But I also get the feeling that it could be a box office disaster, as I've talked to people like you, who were totally psyched about other superhero movies - but couldn't care less about WW.
And maybe I'm the only one here, lol, but I'll stick my neck on the block and say Wonder Woman was never really superhero material in my book anyway. (I just know I'll get stick for that, lol, but just being honest - other female superheroes yes, Electra, Storm etc. were all believable).
But I always found WW to be way too Kitsch, and never really took it seriously. Maybe the comics were better, but the TV series was as corny as Buck Rogers imho.
Maybe the movie will change my mind, but there's only so much you can do with what you're given - even a supremely talented guy like Joss. I think the only way I'd take it seriously, is if it was a lot darker than the series, and she dressed in a full body costume (as opposed to just being a male fantasy figure).
Maybe it'll work out great, but at the back of my mind, I suspect WW's popularity had more to do with a great body in a skimpy outfit - much as most people remember Erin Grays tightfitting outfits in Buck Rogers, lol.
Unpopular thoughts maybe, but I wish they'd given Joss a different project to work on.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:33 AM

EMPXENU

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
Universal has a highly valuable resource in getting Joss under contract. They feel at this point that Joss working on a production that has a built-in familiarity with the public, like Wonder Woman, and is a far easier "sell" promotion-wise, is a great way to use his talents... profit-wise. Super hero movies, using highly established and popular characters, are practically guaranteed huge money makers. Can you blame Universal for wanting to turn their brilliant new acquisition loose on a super hero franchise that is tailor made for his sensibilities? Of course not. So Universal wants to direct his talents in that direction for a while... and make some big bucks. Well, good for them! ('course, it's frustrating for we who want more Serenity, NOW... )

Universal isn't making Wonder Woman. Warner Bros is, since Time Warner owns DC.

----
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being" - Carl Jung

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:21 PM

WINDSTRUCK

WB is making the Wonder Woman movie.
I would bet that Universal is indeed banking on WWs success and of Joss Whedon's successful silver screen adaptation of the heroine if ever they would think to make another Serenity Movie. Universal does have a contract with the actors for a possible trilogy.

If Joss succeeds in WW, there will be a bigger chance for a Serenity sequel. Joss will prove that he is "bankable". He'll also prove that he does not only make quality films (that we love), but makes money-making films as well.

Joss is writing mad for WW. And it is a hard write-up. The character is very limited and has been incarnate, re-incarnated, re-introduced, killed, revived so many times. Heck! That would be so hard to write.

I bet Joss is thinking the same way. He wants to get this one on the money, but with the best quality he could give it.

Wonder Woman is his good chance to get another good chance.

I dread that this movie will fail terribly because this might prove disastrous to the possibility of a SERENITY SEQUEL and to the TV/Movie career of Joss.

THE SEQUEL

Nathan was asked about firefly going back to TV in the sci-fi channel. He reponded, "Can they (sci-fi channel) afford it?"
That got me thinking. Was he talking about the rights to the show or the cost of the production? Maybe both.

I am ruling out the possibility of another TV series (although I'd want more).

I'd go for a movie sequel. As I stated above, I hope that Joss Whedon's Wonder Woman will be a super success, and we get another chance for a Serenity sequel. I want more Book and Wash in it.

Does it necessarily have to apply that in the sequel, Book and Wash will have to be gone?

POINT

If Joss proved succesful in his next venture into the silver screen, he will not need to fight for everything. The execs will be the one fighting to get him.

He might even gain back the pounds he lost.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:05 PM

AGENTRUSCO

So here's my two cents: I am obsessive with Firefly. I love the show. I love the comics that bridged. I love Serenity (though I won't lie that I was somewhat dissapointed.) I want things to continue. I want people to know about this thing. It is my main goal to recruit new browncoats. That said, I really don't much want this to become some huge deal. The very fact that Firefly is the underdog is what draws me to it. I've been a Lord of the Rings fan... but that's so commonplace now that the films are out. So I searched elsewhere. Firefly is the comunity we make it. We are the hangers-on, the hopeless hopers in a sense. And I'm fine with that.

Let's just leave it that I'm confused. I want more, but at the same time I'm content...

AgentRusco out.

______________________________
I cannot abide useless people.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:12 PM

UBERGEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by Windstruck:

Nathan was asked about firefly going back to TV in the sci-fi channel. He reponded, "Can they (sci-fi channel) afford it?"
That got me thinking. Was he talking about the rights to the show or the cost of the production? Maybe both.

Now what im about to say I have no proof of (excpet the fact that I read it somewhere)

SciFi, in order to purchse *production* rights to Firefly would be in the millions. And making the Series is expensive as well. I read that the Serenity Piolt episode cost 8.9 million cashy money to make. and each episode after that was anywhere from 1-3 million. (again I cant back up these numbers. All i know is i read these, and just cant remeber where)

This would be one expencive show to make.

Now, A mini series would be possible for HBO or Showtime. But Joss said that people have to approch him if they want Firefly 2/Serenity 2 made. So, if we can prove (which would be damn near impossable, but hey we are known for doing the impossable) to HBO/Showtime that a seccond season of Firefly would be proffitable. Now how we would go about proving that it would be profitable, that is a chalange.

(forgive any horrendous spelling mistakes I have made. I am a very bad speller and usualy wright anything I am going to post in a Text Editor. but its 1:08 AM and im a little to lazy to do that right now)

Bye all

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 2:01 AM

MICJWELCH

Quote:
Originally posted by Windstruck:

Nathan was asked about firefly going back to TV in the sci-fi channel. He reponded, "Can they (sci-fi channel) afford it?"
That got me thinking. Was he talking about the rights to the show or the cost of the production? Maybe both.

I watch a few shows on the Sci-Fi channel quite often, and there is no way that production costs for Firefly would be more than the Stargate series that are on. There's some fancy stuff in there. And some big expensive sets. And I don't know that the actors would cost more than Richard Dean Anderson. So I would have to guess that it's the initial costs that would be the problem.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by EmpXenu:
Universal isn't making Wonder Woman. Warner Bros is, since Time Warner owns DC.

Oops.

As I keep discovering, I get too emersed in work and continue to only absorb about half of what I read and hear...

Still, the part about Universal waiting until they see that the audience for the 'Verse is holding strong and growing, before they invest in any future incarnations of Serenity, still applies.

It's still Universal, right?

11th Hour

P.S.

I also still entertain the notion that the rights for Firefly may not have to be bought outright. Universal might be able to work some kind of licensing deal with 20th Century FOX, or profit sharing, or something. We're entering a period where studios are beginning to really rethink how to create and deliver entertainment, and how to come up with new business strategies.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:56 AM

FERT1

I don't think the Firefly verse is dead. Joss loves it too much, and many fans are downright rabid about it. However, I think it will most likely be continued in book or graphic novel form.

I know this is not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel it is realistic. I don't think the numbers are there for a sequel or more episodes. Even a lot of Sci-Fi fans seem to just not get this show for some reason. I personally know people that have seen it and hated it. I cannot for the life of me fathom why, but that's reality. I think it's too clever for some people.

Don't get me wrong, I would be absoutely ecstatic to learn of a sequel or more episodes, but at this point, it doesn't seem very likely.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fert1:
I don't think the Firefly verse is dead. Joss loves it too much, and many fans are downright rabid about it. However, I think it will most likely be continued in book or graphic novel form.

I know this is not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel it is realistic. I don't think the numbers are there for a sequel or more episodes. Even a lot of Sci-Fi fans seem to just not get this show for some reason. I personally know people that have seen it and hated it. I cannot for the life of me fathom why, but that's reality. I think it's too clever for some people.

Don't get me wrong, I would be absoutely ecstatic to learn of a sequel or more episodes, but at this point, it doesn't seem very likely.

Not met anyone yet that hated it, but I guess everyone likes different things. I never really got into Star Wars *runs quickly before being mobbed*

It's difficult though when it comes to numbers justifying a new series/movie, because how many FF fans are there ?? Obviously there are the die hard fans who post here, but how many others are out there and never join a board or post ?
I think there are a lot more fans that nobody even knows exist, although they must be buying the DVDs at least if sales are anything to go by.

I think there's still a good chance of at least another movie, and hope there's a new series (although thinking logically, that doesn't look promising at the moment).
The only problem I have with the movies, is that they'll probably conclude the video side of FF.
With 2 characters already being killed off in Serenity, and Mal's actions probably putting him on the Alliances 'most wanted' list, I'm guessing the movies will more or less end it.
And with most of Serenitys safe houses cleaned out by the Operative, there isn't really anywhere for them to get support.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fert1:
I don't think the Firefly verse is dead. Joss loves it too much, and many fans are downright rabid about it. However, I think it will most likely be continued in book or graphic novel form.

I know this is not going to be a popular opinion, but I feel it is realistic. I don't think the numbers are there for a sequel or more episodes. Even a lot of Sci-Fi fans seem to just not get this show for some reason. I personally know people that have seen it and hated it. I cannot for the life of me fathom why, but that's reality. I think it's too clever for some people.

Don't get me wrong, I would be absoutely ecstatic to learn of a sequel or more episodes, but at this point, it doesn't seem very likely.

Very valid points.

However...

Being one of the veteran Browncoats, who helped do the impossible, I gotta say... "realistic" and "likely" weren't much a part of our vocabulary.

11th Hour

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:21 PM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.

Both of you make very valid points.

I agree the 'verse will most likely continue on in print form of one kind or another. Earlier posters pointed out the numbers weren't there for a sequel and I agree it is highly unlikely there will be another big-screen movie made. However, since Browncoats have kept the BDM and even more amazingly the BDS in the top 50 on Amazon for the last several years, a film studio may see a direct-to-dvd movie as more financially viable option. Joss could certainly turn the reigns over to Tim Minnear, Marti Noxon or others he has worked with in the past that will stay true to his vision of the show. And we CERTAINLY would consume mass quantities.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:23 AM

ARBAS

I see it taking maybe 5/6 years before anything happens. In that time we see Joss, Tim, Jane, the BDH etc etc making bigger and bigger names for themselves and money for the studios while the FF/Serenity fanbase maintains the 'verse through fanfiction, conventions, merchandise etc etc that's enough time for the series to move from genre cult status to classic TV status at that point maybe the money men will show some interest :D

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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:11 AM

EMPXENU

I read this newspiece at IMDB and it gave me just a small bit of - perhaps unfounded but still - comfort:

"Universal Studios has discovered that sometimes it makes more sense to release a sequel to a modestly successful movie directly to DVD than distribute it first to theaters, the Los Angeles Daily News observed today (Thursday). The newspaper noted that the studio's 2000 film about cheerleaders, Bring It On, starring Kirsten Dunst, has already spawned two DVD-only sequels. Its latest, Bring It On: All or Nothing, reportedly sold 750,000 copies in its first week, generating $12 million in sales. In addition, it earned $3.8 million in rentals. The first sequel, Bring It On Again, sold 500,000 in its first week. Last December, it noted a sequel to American Pie, titled American Pie Presents: Band Camp, registered 1-million sales. Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment, told the newspaper, "It's all about creating a line of product that is of theatrical level quality based on properties that have tremendous demand."

----
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being" - Carl Jung

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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:41 AM

ESTHER

Quote:
Originally posted by 11th Hour:

Being one of the veteran Browncoats, who helped do the impossible, I gotta say... "realistic" and "likely" weren't much a part of our vocabulary.

OK, you veteran, I only joined this month, SO WHAT CAN WE DO NOW? What did you do then? And how can we go further? Whom to address? Is buying the DVD sets and giving them to friends enough? I could also give the money directly to a fund ... is there any? Like "fans buy a TV series"? I mean, 3 Million US$ for one episode - with 50.000 fans that would make 60 bucks each (don't know, how many fans are there, but a DVD set in Germany costs abour 60 $). And someone paid over 3.000 $ for the Sereinity script (well, of course he got something of value for his money, but still ...)

Aaaaah, just feeling so helpless!

It's fascinating, though, how as a fan you can just re-enact Mals frustration as a Browncoat and all. I guess, that's somewhat part of the connection between the fans and the 'Verse ...

Esther

Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 4:07 AM