NEW PLAN by OLDDUCK

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

NEW PLAN

POSTED BY: OLDDUCK
UPDATED: Friday, July 11, 2008 00:09
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8200
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Monday, June 16, 2008 6:22 PM

No more lamenting and hand wringing over the loss of firefly. The Plan I propose is for fans to raise $ 100 mil by selliing shares in a for profit corporation in 100 share units at $1 per share - there could even be a "day player" drawimg based on one entry for every 100 shares purchased. The shares and money would be used for "founders shares", to buy the rights and residuals, recreate sets, put writers, production staff, and cast under contract, and to underwrite production costs. Lots of details to be resolved but all is possible. The fact that fans put up the $ to make this happen would create a huge buzz and an incredible amount of free publicty. Lets do the impossible and do it TOGETHER! OLDDUCK

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:04 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Some of us are beginning to get serious about this...We will be in touch about it...

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 3:58 PM

STAPLES

I've said it before, I'll say it again - I'm in. I don't know how many fans have the cashy-money to throw at this right now, the economy is kinda shot, but I'd be more than willing to spend my time (and the little extra money) helping to organize something on a grand scale.

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:31 PM

ARTCAT81

If you do go this route, make sure all of your t's are crossed na dI's dotted, i hate to burst your bubble but it was tried,

http://realityme.net/2006/01/17/browncoats-defeatedagain/

In the end a lot of browncoats felt scammed, you simply cannot start taking the money until you have the legal groundwork under you.

That being said, best wishes and your enthusiasm is lovely to see.

In my opinion the best way to fund a sequel or continuation in teh verse is to continue to buy the dvds share them with friends, buy the lunchbozes, ornaments, comics, books etc.

Browncoats are the shiniest folks in the 'verse
www.texasartcat.com/bluesun.html <--my bluesunshop

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Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:38 PM

ANONYMOUS1

Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Some of us are beginning to get serious about this...We will be in touch about it...

Remember we don't want to do anything to hurt Joss.

A Hollywood insider explained to the last person who started raising money that it could scare Hollywood away from Joss if fans started raising money. All the money was returned by the way.

Let's see how Joss decides to make his investment back from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. If he puts a donate button up...well...we know what to do with that...don't we.

http://doctorhorrible.net Official Fansite

http://drhorrible.com Official website

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:13 PM

OLDDUCK

Thanks for the reply. The mim. requirements would be a registered corporation with an escrow of funds until bench marks were met ie., business plan and budget. min. $$$ amt in escrow, agreement made with key people for their participation, purchase of rights to the use the names and story lines and the right to future revenues from merchandise and DVD sales of previous FF/Sern productions. My thought was to use founders shares to maximize funds available for production costs and to provide ownership motivation to the talent that made this intelligent and entertaining story possible! My greater hope is that it would move forward the human conversation by considering no subject off limits.

OLDDUCK

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 2:27 PM

RALLEM

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Some of us are beginning to get serious about this...We will be in touch about it...

Remember we don't want to do anything to hurt Joss.

A Hollywood insider explained to the last person who started raising money that it could scare Hollywood away from Joss if fans started raising money. All the money was returned by the way.

Let's see how Joss decides to make his investment back from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. If he puts a donate button up...well...we know what to do with that...don't we.

http://doctorhorrible.net Official Fansite

http://drhorrible.com Official website

I would gladly donate money for this but only if Joss were at the helm.

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:40 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

$100 million? Really?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 1:48 PM

RALLEM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
$100 million? Really?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

You may not fear the reaper, but do you fear the Reavers?

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Friday, July 4, 2008 1:40 PM

OLDDUCK

RE: "NEW PLAN" ISSUES:
1) Harm Joss: If Joss is not on board with a fan financed future for FF/SER, it has as much chance as Reavers being invited to a dress ball on Persephone - he is the soul of the story.
2) Shareholder protection: using a corporate structure with escrow, povides legal and financial safeguards for all involved.
3)100 million stock cap: since few stock offering are ever fully subscribed, and shares are often exchanged for services or used for founders shares, and production costs for FF/SER are unknown to me and, since it's common to raise capitol in stages, I guesstimated an amount that would provide a bd of dir. with the necessary capitol to complete the next chapter of the story.
4) Politics: I don't know what effect a fan financed FF/SER would have on the franchise's future, but I do know that there is no news of a new Firefly TV series and that Nathan Fillion has ZERO info about a second Serenity movie(see prior posting). Maybe the prospect of a "bottom" up revolution in entertainment creation would motivate the establishment to focus on what a growing BROWNCOAT fan base wants.

OLDDUCK

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Friday, July 4, 2008 2:27 PM

FREELANCERTEX

if joss okays sumthin like that, and we do it the right way, i'm in. ^_^ all the way

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Friday, July 4, 2008 3:38 PM

SCATHAC

With the advent of youtube and suchlike, the entertainment industry is definitely changing. The industry keeps a close eye on what normal people (and shiny people like us!) are posting. Also, a lot of directors are posting directly to the net, ie Joss and Dr. Horrible, or that 'Half Life' thing created by that guy who did 'Thirty Something.' I think fan financed media is most likely another aspect of this movement, but we should be careful - damaging Joss' rep would be super bad. In all honesty, most people in the industry believe that Studios are pretty much on the way out, they just haven't admitted it to themselves yet (Bwahahahahah to Fox.) Something to ponder, though: I believe that Fox still owns the rights to the Firefly show. If they do, do we think they will give them up for a price? They aren't known for generosity of spirit...

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Friday, July 4, 2008 11:19 PM

OLDDUCK

SCATHAC: A) While Joss's participation in any attempt to implement a fan financed project is crucial, it's the obcessive love of the FF/SER fans, the actors and the writers, coupled with the internet that can make it happen.
B)It appears that the current owners of the rights to this amazing creation are content to exploit the Browncoats and any new recruits thru the sale of FF/SER DVD's, but are not willing to risk their profits to move the story forward!
C) Individually, we are powerless against a Fox-Universal sTatus quo (The Aliance) that is dedicated to doing nothing. Together we have the passion and resources to make the impossible, possible - LETS DO IT TOGETHER!
D) Finally, we need to dispassionately answer this question, "Is FF/SER a film/TV anthology or is it a one and done 'cult classic?".

OLDDUCK

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 6:59 AM

EMMAPEEL66

I´m interested, under the circumstances the others have stated before already.

I´m living in germany, please think across borders ;)

Good luck and keep fingers crossed

Ciao

Beate
Berlin
Germany

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 7:41 AM

OLDDUCK

EMMAPEEL66: Thank you for your post. It confirms that any resurgence of the Browncoats will require a broad and diverse fan base. If we can, as your post indicates, draw support and resources across national and cultural boarders, the probability of success will be greatly enhanced. Agree that there are many unanswered questions, but the fact that questions are being asked should give us hope that we can seize the moment. LET'S DO THE IMPOSSIBLE TOGETHER!!!

OLDDUCK

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 8:07 AM

SCATHAC

Quote:
Originally posted by OLDDUCK:
It appears that the current owners of the rights to this amazing creation are content to exploit the Browncoats and any new recruits thru the sale of FF/SER DVD's, but are not willing to risk their profits to move the story forward!

I totally agree with you. So the question is, how are we gonna rest the rights away from Goliath? I am down to wrassle every Fox exec Greco-Roman style until they give up the rights, but I ain't sure that'll work.

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 8:25 AM

PENTHOS

I'm on board 110%... I proposed something similar to this a couple months ago and was told it was pointless; it had been tried and\or it would somehow hurt Joss, which still makes no sense to me. Joss did Dr Horrible without the Hollywood Establishment if the rights can be obtained, then why not more Firefly?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zoe: Don't think its a good spot sir, she still has the advantage over us.
Mal: Everyone always does; that's what makes us special.

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 9:38 AM

OLDDUCK

SCATHAC: Your wrestling Goliath would undoubtly be VERY ENTERTAINING and a great fund raiser, but medical expenses could break the nonexistant bank - lol. We might better characterize Fox/Universal (The Alliance) as Judas, rather than Goliath and consider jingling a bag of silver within their hearing. If they do in fact view FF/SER as an asset with deminishing value (a fact suggested by their lack of further investment in the property and their restricting their profit streams to minimally promoted sales of DVD's), a lump sum offer could get us the rights and residuals we need to risk our time and money. The argument to them, to quote Jayne, "nothin times nothin ......"! OLDDUCK

OLDDUCK

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 9:52 AM

MIIKE

im down for it aint got much cash but would put down tidy sum for new film or series oh and fox universal being judas more like herod to me

i may be some time

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Saturday, July 5, 2008 10:58 AM

OLDDUCK

PENTHOS: We're in the "BLACK" where Joss's interests and/or fears are concerned. It's hard to beleive that the father of the FF/Ser story line is afraid of the tired old saw, "You'll never work in this town again", but it could apply. It could also be that Joss has a vested interest (read profit motive ie., residuals)in maintaining the status quo! It would be helpful if it were possible to open a dialogue with Joss or at least get a direct quote before we go "Hard Burn" on a fan based revival . I'd love to have him say "Great idea. Go for it!" or at least, "If you can put it together, I'm with you!", but I want something firm, not a speculation by Joss's gardeners barber who is known to be hooked on "mother's milk" or 21st century botanicals!OLDDUCK

OLDDUCK

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 8:35 AM

SCATHAC

I've been thinking, and I don't know if this adds to your plan or detracts from it, it's maybe just another way of going at/looking at the problem. It's not that I don't think we can do this - I believe. But I forsee a lot of challenges and stall outs on the way. So somethings to think about.

A lot of people have made the point that all of our BDH have moved on and are into new projects now, as is Joss himself. Are we willing to watch a new Firefly with a new cast? Or new characters?

Also, I read in another thread that each episode of Firefly cost upwards of a million bucks EACH to make. That's gonna be a TON of cash for us to raise, per episode.

I was thinking, maybe we could get Joss' permission just to officially 'play' in his 'verse. Not deal with the crew of the Serenity, just to muck about in the worlds. After all, we've added a lot to his universe, haven't we? New characters, speculations about worlds, theories about ships drives, and stuff like that. If Joss gave us a thumbs up, we could start with some short fan films. There are some brilliant writers on here - I've read the fan fic. So maybe we hold a little contest, vote on a few good scripts. We would need stories that were low on special effects, unless someone knows a brilliant special effects person just dying to donate their time! So, character driven stuff, maybe with fight scenes and/or gun battles. You know the drill.

Then we could assign a script to a local group of Browncoats to produce: raise any funds they need locally, get people to volunteer time - I have a lot of experience with this, actually - both of my undergraduate degrees are in film and video production, so we could go into further detail later.

Anyhow, we post these "officially sanctioned" 'verse based episodes on youtube, build up a fan base. Do what Browncoats do: raise a ruckus. Get people hooked. From there, we start moving our fan base to our official episode website. Using Joss' example, as our production value gets better, we start charging a small amount for downloads. Or for dvd bundles of all episodes. Or whatever. This money goes back into the productions - making new episodes. Basically, we become a little independent production house, focusing on these projects, and going straight to the net - avoiding networks altogether.

With enough of a fan base, we could get some companies interested in promoting with us - more money equals better production value. As our episodes become more polished looking, it would be possible to bring back our heroes for guest appearances and stuff, unless, you know, they wer like "hey, I'm onboard, where's my bunk." Well, we would know what to do with that!

That's in the long run. We would have to start slow, and learn on the way. And we would have to get Joss' ok. And I don't know what the odds are on that.

Anyhow, just my thoughts. I'll leave you with one of my favorite fan videos of all time:

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 9:17 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

This is a very solid idea. A grass roots movement by the fans who love this verse is needed to push forward since neither Fox or Universal have made any inroads.

But, as others have posted, certain things need to be in place to move forward: T's crossed, i's dotted, etc.

At any rate, Joss needs to be on board with any movement towards production.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Sunday, July 6, 2008 9:34 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

I love your idea even better Scathac.

I have seen tons of Star Wars webisodes online that are very good indeed, with characters and the like created by the fans. Some of those productions are quite good and funny, etc.

Although I still think that purchasing the DVD rights is the way to go. Why do you think nothing has happened in the last 6 years in TV land. In another post I stated that Fox has the rights for DVD sales (I believe until 2012) and that's why their anxious to ask us browncoats what we want in the Blu-ray version of the series. To capitalize on the tv series sales (last figure I saw was $60M). Universal has the movie DVD sales rights. Fox is the reason why the movie is called Serenity, so there's some confusion for the fans, but not their beancounters.

Well...that's my theory anyway.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Monday, July 7, 2008 4:06 AM

PENTHOS

Quote:
Originally posted by Scathac:
I've been thinking, and I don't know if this adds to your plan or detracts from it, it's maybe just another way of going at/looking at the problem. It's not that I don't think we can do this - I believe. But I forsee a lot of challenges and stall outs on the way. So somethings to think about.

A lot of people have made the point that all of our BDH have moved on and are into new projects now, as is Joss himself. Are we willing to watch a new Firefly with a new cast? Or new characters?

Also, I read in another thread that each episode of Firefly cost upwards of a million bucks EACH to make. That's gonna be a TON of cash for us to raise, per episode.

I was thinking, maybe we could get Joss' permission just to officially 'play' in his 'verse. Not deal with the crew of the Serenity, just to muck about in the worlds. After all, we've added a lot to his universe, haven't we? New characters, speculations about worlds, theories about ships drives, and stuff like that. If Joss gave us a thumbs up, we could start with some short fan films. There are some brilliant writers on here - I've read the fan fic. So maybe we hold a little contest, vote on a few good scripts. We would need stories that were low on special effects, unless someone knows a brilliant special effects person just dying to donate their time! So, character driven stuff, maybe with fight scenes and/or gun battles. You know the drill.

Then we could assign a script to a local group of Browncoats to produce: raise any funds they need locally, get people to volunteer time - I have a lot of experience with this, actually - both of my undergraduate degrees are in film and video production, so we could go into further detail later.

Anyhow, we post these "officially sanctioned" 'verse based episodes on youtube, build up a fan base. Do what Browncoats do: raise a ruckus. Get people hooked. From there, we start moving our fan base to our official episode website. Using Joss' example, as our production value gets better, we start charging a small amount for downloads. Or for dvd bundles of all episodes. Or whatever. This money goes back into the productions - making new episodes. Basically, we become a little independent production house, focusing on these projects, and going straight to the net - avoiding networks altogether.

With enough of a fan base, we could get some companies interested in promoting with us - more money equals better production value. As our episodes become more polished looking, it would be possible to bring back our heroes for guest appearances and stuff, unless, you know, they wer like "hey, I'm onboard, where's my bunk." Well, we would know what to do with that!

That's in the long run. We would have to start slow, and learn on the way. And we would have to get Joss' ok. And I don't know what the odds are on that.

Anyhow, just my thoughts. I'll leave you with one of my favorite fan videos of all time:

I'll be honest, I don't really care for this idea. Firefly was special because of the combined ingredients of cast, crew, writers and producers... It was really the actors relationships with Joss and each other that made it what it was and I just don't think that chemistry could be duplicated in a spin off.

Sure, it could be a good show and I'd watch it, but it would always be compared to the original and unless it was as good, it would be considered a dissapointment. Yes, the Firefly universe is very cool but it's nowhere near as cool without the Serenity crew flyin around in it; that's just my opinion.

If you just want another Joss Whedon show then wait for Dollhouse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zoe: Don't think its a good spot sir, she still has the advantage over us.
Mal: Everyone always does; that's what makes us special.

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Monday, July 7, 2008 4:23 AM

SCATHAC

Well, I understand your feelings on the matter. I had meant for the idea to lead to more than a spin off, but rather a way to develop moneys, fans and skills while the original cast, crew, writers and producers were engaged in other projects. Possibly, a way to lure them back to the Serenity.

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Monday, July 7, 2008 4:40 AM

SCATHAC

One more thing. I think the long term goal of a project like this would be to either develop enough of a fan base and interest that someone would start up the show again, or to develop ourselves as a production company capable and professional enough to buy the rights and do it our selves.

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Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:34 PM

OLDDUCK

NEW CAST: Whether the fan base of FF/SERN is ready to accept a new cast is difficult to quantify, but a review of a number of fan sites suggests that the story line and the chemestry of the original cast is so inextricably intertwined that any attempt to recreate the verse with a new cast would doom the project to failure. We should expect some cast defections due to commitments or excessive salary demands, but how far we can reduce the original cast is an open question, but I suspect that Mal, Inara, Zoie and summer are a minimum returning cast

Resurection: Whedon has a new project and the cast has various commitments, but it doesn't appear that there are any problems that can't be time budgeted and mesh with the fund raising function of a fan based financial model!

COST: Supposedly true story - 40 years ago a man enters a Reno casino that touts that they will take "Any Bet", walks up to a craps table and places a million dollars on an even money wager. The man wins the wager and cashes out the then two million. As he exits the casino he's asked why he'd bet a mil on any bet - it is reported that he replied, "a million dollars just isn't that much any more"! Moral: Don't get hung up on money, because if you do we'll never see any more chapters in Joss's adventure! What we need to understand is that quality story telling ie., top notch writers, actors, production people, sets, special effects and marketing cost MONEY - LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY! To get some idea of the cost to make our dream a reality, please see whedonesque.com (August 6, 2007) and a Variety piece about hollywood costs for a less than blockbuster film - Sahara variety.com/tompsonhollwood/2007/04/sahara (sorry about no links, but I have poor computer skills) In brief, Serenity had a production budget of 39 mil. plus marketing costs of between 1 and 3 times that amount. I couldn't find The budgets for individual Firefly episodes, but the series was referred to as "low budget" and sites quoted
episode costs as being 1.5 to 2,6 mill each. Fox's marketing costs for the series appear to be minimal (maybe non existant). With inflation, current episodes could cost as much as 3 mil depending on the amount of special effects, cast costs and the existance and availability of the original sets. With the internet, an active blog campaign and some volunteer labor we might be able to cut soe costs.n Plus we could consider moving production to Canada or Australia and look for some government subsidy to reduce or defray expenses.

Open Universe option: If we use Whedon as the FF/SERN gold standard, any open verse would, IMHO, become a bell shaped curve that would be sharply skewed toward medeocrity! It also might fragment the fan base, destroy any hope of raising money and turn off new comers to the verse. I also seriously doubt that Joss would let those who didn't share in the pain and love of birthing the verse, muck about in it. Certainly, we could incorporate script submission as a perk of stock ownership in a fan based financing - if Joss were amenable to the idea.

My fear is that every passing day erodes fan support and that those of us that could moe this story to completion failed to make the effort

OLDDUCK

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Friday, July 11, 2008 12:01 AM

OLDDUCK

The idea of a production company for this or other projects has merit and might mesh well with fan based financing, but Joss has an interest in Mutant Enemy Productions and MEP produced Firefly in conjunction with Fox. It even had an office on Fox's lot. Per Wikpedia, MEP closed but has reopened on the Fox lot in the samr "Glass Office" for the new project!

With Fox having killed Firefly and Universal wanting to maximize revenues on Serenity via dvd and future bluray sales, I doubt either is interested in another FF/SERN project

If there is even a kernal of truth in "Entourage" concerning the expenses/overhead that a new project has to bear, Traditional financing for further chapters of FF/SERN are about as likely as my exceeding light speed by jumping off a chair while flapping my arms vigorously!

OLDDUCK

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Friday, July 11, 2008 12:09 AM

OLDDUCK

The recent PENTHOS post is spot on - without Joss and the original cast, FF/SERN becomes a ghost story with a few dedicated fans telling others what it could have been if only ..........! SAD!!

OLDDUCK

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