GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Browncoats UNITE!! **Movie Spoilers**

POSTED BY: FALLENANGEL
UPDATED: Saturday, December 31, 2005 04:10
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2429
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Wednesday, June 15, 2005 4:27 PM

FALLENANGEL


I don't know if anyone else has read or heard of this negative review of an advance screening of Serenity, but this guy has really no freakin clue how big our fan base is. There are also comments from other people who seem to agree but theres also quite a few other people who are fans and showing support. He just really pissed me off.

Here's the link to the review
http://www.ttnmc.com/content/view/1294/0/
The link to the review has a lil bit of spoilers. As I said mild.



*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzu.

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Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:21 PM

LERXST


GAHHHH!!! You forgot the ***SPOILER WARNING!!***



______________________________________________________
"Somebody get this hairy walking carpet out of my way!"

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Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:30 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by Lerxst:
***SPOILER WARNING!!***


Thank you, Lerxst

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Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:32 PM

FALLENANGEL


ACK!!! I'm soooo sorry!!! Admist all the anger from the reviewer when I wrote this post I completely forgot about the spoilers. I'm so sorry please forgive me?? *ducks at the objects thrown* I'm gonna go and edit it right now. Please forgive me.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step."- Lao Tzu.

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Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sounds like this guy had it in for the movie before it started. He gets all bent out of shape because he hears a couple of fans being excited over the BDM, and this ANNOYS him? Hey buddy, take your own damn advice and just enjoy the movie.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:14 AM

PHAEDRA


I agree this was not the most objective or for that matter well articulated review I've ever read. Actualy . . . it just sucked in every since of the word.

That having been said, the reviewer does make one point that had a certain level of resonance with me. "Brown coat" is awful close to "brown shirts." Now, one cannot take this too far, I mean Star Wars did have storm troopers and the final scene in A New Hope is taken straight from Triumph of the Will.

That having been said, it's just one more thing that distrubs me racial dynamics of the show. Now before everyone beats me up. I LOVE THIS SHOW! Indeed, this is my first experiment with fan obsession and I like it.

That having been said, the Independents are clearly modeled on the South, as the War of Unification is modeled on the Civil War. As an african american, this just irks me slightly. That I am compelled to identify with subjects who, for me, simulateously represent oppression.

Other racial problems:
Where are the asians?
Why is every black man suspect?
There are also major intersectionality problems.

Again, I love the show, these are just a few ruminations.

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:30 AM

SIMONWHO


Er, surely you don't mean Book? He's the good guy in among a gang of bad guys (from a strict legal/illegal perspective). Plus Zoe is another great role model.

I have to agree that Firefly/Serenity might attract a certain Confederate element but that's just one of those quirks of history: a group that wanted freedom because they wanted to keep others enslaved (yes, I know, a gross oversimplification of the civil war, so sue me).

And yeah, that movie review was obviously written by somebody who loves Andromeda and hates the way all the other fanboys point and laugh at him.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:23 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Huh.

I kinda agree with the reviewer. He didn't seem to bash the movie - not to mention he seems to have some decency towards J.W. and his work - he went after all the typical things that non-sci-fi folk find annoying about fanboys. And a few oddnesses about the movie, which are valid.

No sense in "uniting" against him to tell him how wrong his opinion is and how stupid he is, cuz that just drives home his point. Some of the posts by apparent fans are just pathetic. Dood, u r so wrong! U suk!! The movie is goin to kik a$$!!!1 Please....

(I never did like the term "BrownCoat;" always preferred "Independent" myself....) Anyway, do what you will. No matter how much I loved the movie, not everyone is going to like it.

无 党派 人士

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 3:49 AM

BIKISDAD


Oh, come on, people! Comparing Firefly fans to Nazis? That goes way beyond just being offensive. People have been fired in recent years for saying much less offensive things than that. This guy should, at the very least, offer a public apology for that contemptible comment.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 4:40 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by bikisdad:
Oh, come on, people! Comparing Firefly fans to Nazis? That goes way beyond just being offensive.

No, he's not comparing Firefly fans to Nazis. He's saying that the term "Browncoat" is awfully close to the old Nazi associated term "Brownshirt." He's not wrong. And he's not the first one to mention it, either. I've seen other Firefly fans complain about the same thing.

无 党派 人士

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:17 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sounds like this guy had it in for the movie before it started. He gets all bent out of shape because he hears a couple of fans being excited over the BDM, and this ANNOYS him? Hey buddy, take your own damn advice and just enjoy the movie.




I agree. From the his own writing this caveman had it in for the movie from the beginning:

- "he seems to have decided to prey on my deep-seated loathing of fanboys."

- "One look at the crowd told me I was way off base."

- "Internally I started plotting elaborate plans to exact my revenge for this."

- "The evening progressed steadily downward as it became apparent to me that not only was this crowd an obsessive sci-fi geek squad, but they called themselves browncoats, a reference that had me thinking of them as some sort of pitiful offshoot of the Hitler youth."

- "Why do geeks feel the need to war against each other based on whatever particular sci-fi/fantasy show/movie/anime/comic gets their panties moist?"

- "This last point comes from hearing the self-righteousness of geeks who insist that this movie came to life because they wouldn’t let Fox off the hook for killing their beloved show. Personally I’d say it’s a lot more likely that Universal saw an opportunity to stick it to a rival studio by grabbing a disgruntled former employee in Joss Whedon. I really don’t think they gave a rat’s ass about the immense devotion of the brownshirts to their buried show."



Where to begin?

This dimwit shows his complete and utter disrespect for any fanbase with his incessant use of the term "geeks". The fact of the matter is that any fans of any show I have ever met could probably talk circles around this ape, have a higher I.Q. (just judging by their broader use of the language), and are far more respectful and courteous. Guess this boy's mother didn't raise him right.

His comparison of Browncoats to Nazis is completely out of line. Good thing he doesn't live near me and dueling was long ago outlawed or I would be looking for a second and deciding on pistols or swords even as I type this post. Again I blame his lack of couth on poor upbringing.

That being said Browncoats, I would disregard this third string tripe for the refuse it is, and the "writer" for the hack he is in reality. Had we listened to naysayers like this pompous windbag, Firefly would have never been released on DVD, we would have no BDM, the series would not be set to reair on Sci Fi, not to mention all the shiny books and other merchandise to be released soon.

So, let us Browncoats and that disgruntled ex-Fox employee Joss Whedon laugh as the BDM is a big success while this sad little king on a sad little offal hill sits in his apartment alone.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/


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Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:28 AM

BLEYDDYN


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
No, he's not comparing Firefly fans to Nazis. He's saying that the term "Browncoat" is awfully close to the old Nazi associated term "Brownshirt."



Ok, I'm a bit of a history buff. I read history books for fun (currently reading one about Emperor Hadrian). I participate in a historical recreation group (Ok, the SCA is more fun-recreation than accurate-reeecreation, but still). Also, admittedly most of my interest is pre-Civil War (in most cases it's way pre-Civil War).

But, how is it that I've never heard the term "Brownshirt"? Is this some deep dark secret that history professors only teach to a select few? Or is it more commonly taught in Europe than the US? I really did pay attention during my history classes, honest.



--Bleyddyn

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:42 AM

BIKISDAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:

Originally posted by bikisdad:
Oh, come on, people! Comparing Firefly fans to Nazis? That goes way beyond just being offensive.

No, he's not comparing Firefly fans to Nazis. He's saying that the term "Browncoat" is awfully close to the old Nazi associated term "Brownshirt." He's not wrong. And he's not the first one to mention it, either. I've seen other Firefly fans complain about the same thing.

? ?? ??




All the terms "Browncoats" and "Brownshirts" have in common is the word "Brown". In his so-called review he specifically referred to us as BrownSHIRTS, another term for Nazi henchmen. There's nothing about that usage that is anywhere close to valid. Are you a Nazi? I'm not a Nazi. And if anything, the Browncoats in the Firefly 'verse are the anti-Nazis, being AGAINST the big, bad government and all.

It's one thing to give the movie a bad review. That just means the guy is stupid, which is forgivable. It's another thing to refer to the movie's fans by one of the most vile terms imaginable. That's not stupid, it's reprehensible.

If you don't mind him calling us Nazis because of his obvious pre-judgment and complete lack of understanding of both the show and its fans, that's fine. However, don't tell me that I shouldn't be pissed off by it just because some people can't tell the words "shirt" and "coat" apart.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:57 AM

BIKISDAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Bleyddyn:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
No, he's not comparing Firefly fans to Nazis. He's saying that the term "Browncoat" is awfully close to the old Nazi associated term "Brownshirt."



Ok, I'm a bit of a history buff. I read history books for fun (currently reading one about Emperor Hadrian). I participate in a historical recreation group (Ok, the SCA is more fun-recreation than accurate-reeecreation, but still). Also, admittedly most of my interest is pre-Civil War (in most cases it's way pre-Civil War).

But, how is it that I've never heard the term "Brownshirt"? Is this some deep dark secret that history professors only teach to a select few? Or is it more commonly taught in Europe than the US? I really did pay attention during my history classes, honest.



--Bleyddyn



In pre-WWII Germany, the Nazi party consolidated control of the country partially through violence and intimidation perpetrated by thugs called "Brownshirts". They were, however, a sort of "unofficial" faction of the Nazi party - not directly tied to Hitler. To make them more familiar to you, they eventually transformed into the very official Gestapo during war time.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:22 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by SimonWho:
I have to agree that Firefly/Serenity might attract a certain Confederate element but that's just one of those quirks of history: a group that wanted freedom because they wanted to keep others enslaved (yes, I know, a gross oversimplification of the civil war, so sue me).

That would be the War Between the States that you're referring to? Nah, I won't sue you here. Best be careful, though. There are some Southern states that never really quite surrendered when General Lee did.

Speaking for my own self, my grandmother's family came across the pond from Scotland (Glasgow-way) thanks in large part to the Clearances. I think anyone who has a personal history that involves some manner of civil conflict or oppression by a far-distant monarchy or governing body would be attracted to this series... which would probably be just about anyone who knows their personal history and takes some measure of value in it.

For me, Browncoat is the same as saying Johnny Reb or Jacobite (Pre-CUllodon Scottish resistance) or Maquis (French Resistance, WWII) and the like. "Independent" in my mind brings up certain political connotations, and as I haven't gotten my 2004 campaign apology yet, all politics are still banned from my sight, so far as I'm concerned.

I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/Nora_Leverson
Live in Minnesota? Join the Group! Yahoo Group, that is...
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/MN-Firefly

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:46 AM

BRUISERSMOM


It's not a deep dark secret. The brownshirts were some of Hitler's thugs in Nazi Germany. You can look them up online or in a history book on Nazi Germany and the Holocaust.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 9:25 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by bikisdad:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:

Originally posted by bikisdad:
Oh, come on, people! Comparing Firefly fans to Nazis? That goes way beyond just being offensive.

No, he's not comparing Firefly fans to Nazis. He's saying that the term "Browncoat" is awfully close to the old Nazi associated term "Brownshirt." He's not wrong. And he's not the first one to mention it, either. I've seen other Firefly fans complain about the same thing.

If you don't mind him calling us Nazis because of his obvious pre-judgment and complete lack of understanding of both the show and its fans, that's fine. However, don't tell me that I shouldn't be pissed off by it just because some people can't tell the words "shirt" and "coat" apart.

No one’s saying you shouldn’t be pissed. Be pissed all you want. I think you’re being pissed about the wrong thing, is what I’m saying here.

You saw the word “Nazi” and because of it’s horrific connotation, you’ve completely disregarded everything around it – like context and his entire point in mentioning it – and have convinced yourself that the writer called you (or Firefly Fans) a Nazi. He did not call Firefly fans Nazis, nor did he equate Firefly fans to any Nazi regime, nor did he liken the two groups’ behaviors to one another, etc. (Did I miss it? Cuz if I did, then yeah, I'd be rather annoyed....)

From what I read, what he did – as others have done in the past and probably will do in the future – is state the very simple opinion that he thinks the term Browncoat is too close to Brownshirt.

(People in Milwaukee, WI threw such a fit over a carnival ride named "Xyclon" because it was too close to the name "Zyclon," which was the gas Nazis used; the Public got that ride banned... or was it just renamed...? Either way, inital perception created a negative connection, resulting in public outrage over the name of a kiddie ride. To me, that's as foolish as connecting Browncoats with Brownshirts.)

Until recently, I’d never heard of the "Brownshirts" and therefore never even knew to think that it was too similar to "Browncoats." However, it is possible that people who have heard the term may be more apt than you to think the same as the writer. That’s all he's doing and saying. It’s a very simple initial thought.

If you take all that out of his write up, as a whole, it wasn't really a very negative review. I've read a lot worse.

无 党派 人士

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 9:37 AM

BIKISDAD


HK, I'm not saying he didn't get the idea from incorrectly comparing the words BrownCOATS and BrownSHIRTS.

Look at Browncoat1's posting above where he quotes from this idiot's article..... OK, have you looked? At the very bottom, and this is after he made the coat/shirt comparison, he specifically calls the people who support the show/movie "BrownSHIRTS". That is what I find goes way beyond offensive.

If he wants to be an idiot and compare the two words incorrectly, let him be an idiot. However, he very specifically CALLED US BrownSHIRTS, in other words, Nazis. There's no way you can gloss over that and say that that isn't what he was saying.

EDIT: Besides, saying the words Browncoats and Brownshirts are similar is just as ridiculous as saying the words cannon and canon are similar. They may look slightly alike, but their meanings couldn't be more different. If this guy doesn't understand that simple concept, then he shouldn't be writing anything anywhere as a professional writer.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:02 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


I don't see what the big deal is. He wrote he didn't hate the movie and that some things could be tightened up in editing.

You guys gotta loosen up some. Geeez.

"You're either in or you're out, and I'm playing to the in."—Greg Dulli.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:10 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by bikisdad:
Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

Completely off topic, after I read your "signature line," I had to create a little sign and hang it up at work. It was very well received.

无 党派 人士

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:16 AM

BIKISDAD


I wish I could take credit for it, but it's actually a newspaper headline that Jane Espenson wrote for the Buffy episode, "Earshot". Glad you like it.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:29 AM

BIKISDAD


Quote:

Originally posted by BlackoutNights:
I don't see what the big deal is. He wrote he didn't hate the movie and that some things could be tightened up in editing.

You guys gotta loosen up some. Geeez.

"You're either in or you're out, and I'm playing to the in."—Greg Dulli.



I'm not quibbling with his review, although he certainly did pre-judge the movie before he ever went into the theatre. I'm saying he shouldn't go around calling people Nazis unless they really are Nazis.

Maybe you don't mind being called a Nazi. I do.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:40 AM

BROWNCOATOLDEARTH


Wow, a color and an item of clothing. This borders on paranoia. Pretty ridiculous to get in an uproar about. Anyone remotely foolish enough to think this is more than a coincidence in color/wording should not be take seriously. If being a "browncoat" meant you were involved in an anti-immigrant rightwing political party then there might be concern, but there were fascist groups of most colors of shirts in Europe. They area all pretty much dead and no one ever associated the crips with their blue clothing to the Spanish fascist of WW2 era. I have a degree in history and have some experience in political sphere. Ignore any similarities of name and anyone who actually looks at who/what the browncoats are will make no mistake. The browncoats of Firefly are fighting against fascism (alliance).

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Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:10 AM

SERYN


looking at the review again (yes punishing my eyeballs for a second time, so i'm a masochist, hit me [please!])

haha, sorry, couldn't resist the bad joke, hmm.

*cough*

where was I? ah, looking at the review again, his exact words were
Quote:



'The evening progressed steadily downward as it became apparent to me that not only was this crowd an obsessive sci-fi geek squad, but they called themselves browncoats, a reference that had me thinking of them as some sort of pitiful offshoot of the Hitler youth... ...I really don’t think they gave a rat’s ass about the immense devotion of the brownshirts to their buried show.'




I took a word he had no concept of the origin of, and applyed to it a completely innapropriate and offensive connotation in an attempt to be, for lack of a better word, mean.
Then compounded it by switching the two words.

It was every second his intention to be offensive and degrading.

But to be absolutely honest, he presents himself as someone who's opinion 'equals the worth of a turd'


What worried me more was his total lack of grip on the actual point -

Quote:


'Along the way this tackles the background of a spacefaring group of mad zombies called the Reavers. These guys just flat out didn’t work for me. Am I supposed to believe that a group of bloodthirsty berserkers that seem to have little in life beyond mutilating themselves and others while screaming incessantly can pull it together enough to pilot a starship? I simply cannot imagine them plotting courses and repairing complex equipment when they seem to do nothing but rampage about looking for people to mutilate. I guess the fans were probably amped up for a background on these ghouls but I could have done without the entire subplot.'




hang on, wasn't the movie about the reavers?

with out his 'subplot' there wouldn't actually be a movie beyond the first teaser scene - River would escape and no-one would care

so I'm just not gonna bother getting annoyed above my usual contempt for those people who give imbeciles net access.

(yes, today I have been mostly eating dictionaries)

silly bunny...

ps, I love the apathy on the rise thing, can I steal it?



-------------------------------------------
"She's a mite whimsical in the brainpan."

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