GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Dumbest Line in Firefly

POSTED BY: YT
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 17:57
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Monday, August 29, 2005 4:22 PM

TRUTHSEEKER


Quote:

Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
Quote:

Originally posted by dietcoke:

To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc



In many cultures -- especially Asian cultures -- calling someone grandfather or grandmother is a sign of respect. One is deferring to the individuals superior age, maturity, wisdom and life experience.



There are a couple of times in the commentaries where Joss talks about showing how a character reacts differently to different people, and I think the repetition of "Granpa" followed by "I never married," is another example.

The Brutus crew member is using "Granpa" with a more western connotation. I.E., "I don't know you, but by calling you this nickname maybe I can create a false sense of connection with you in order to sell you something." Book responds by casually rejecting the nickname, albeit politely, and with it the false show of friendliness. In the process, his unexpected answer confuses the Brutus huxster right out of his sales pitch, and Book blends back in with the crowd, having proved himself no push over.

Kaylee, on the other hand, approaches Book with an insight into his personality, rather than a hard sell. Book is interested; he stops to talk with her. They form the beginnings of a real connection. So that by the time Kaylee calls him "Granpa," she's using it in a much more eastern way. "Oh, aren't you clever and wise to bring something like this as a way of paying your fare," with a good dash of innocent flirtation thrown in for good measure. This time when Book responds, "I never married," he's sharing part of his life story, another first step of friendship.

As I said earlier in this thread, this little scene tells you several things about Book's character, background, and how he relates to others. But it also shows something about the interaction of Eastern and Western culture in the 'Verse. One word can have a wealth of connotations from both cultures. It all depends on how it's used.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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Monday, August 29, 2005 4:34 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY


Quote:

Originally posted by truthseeker:
Quote:

Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
Quote:

Originally posted by dietcoke:

To call someone a "granpa" is an insult. It's like referring to someone as "old man." Book, instead of saying something equality nasty back, he slyly smiles and simple says: "I never married." i.e. I AM NOT A GRANPA! Dumbass!

NY/NJ Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc



In many cultures -- especially Asian cultures -- calling someone grandfather or grandmother is a sign of respect. One is deferring to the individuals superior age, maturity, wisdom and life experience.



There are a couple of times in the commentaries where Joss talks about showing how a character reacts differently to different people, and I think the repetition of "Granpa" followed by "I never married," is another example.

The Brutus crew member is using "Granpa" with a more western connotation. I.E., "I don't know you, but by calling you this nickname maybe I can create a false sense of connection with you in order to sell you something." Book responds by casually rejecting the nickname, albeit politely, and with it the false show of friendliness. In the process, his unexpected answer confuses the Brutus huxster right out of his sales pitch, and Book blends back in with the crowd, having proved himself no push over.

Kaylee, on the other hand, approaches Book with an insight into his personality, rather than a hard sell. Book is interested; he stops to talk with her. They form the beginnings of a real connection. So that by the time Kaylee calls him "Granpa," she's using it in a much more eastern way. "Oh, aren't you clever and wise to bring something like this as a way of paying your fare," with a good dash of innocent flirtation thrown in for good measure. This time when Book responds, "I never married," he's sharing part of his life story, another first step of friendship.

As I said earlier in this thread, this little scene tells you several things about Book's character, background, and how he relates to others. But it also shows something about the interaction of Eastern and Western culture in the 'Verse. One word can have a wealth of connotations from both cultures. It all depends on how it's used.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.




Well said. In my view, Kaylee's "Oh Grandpa," was a way of saying, "Oh, dear Sir." But Book was still annoyed by the undue famliarity from a moment before. Never-the-less, he responded gently.

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Monday, August 29, 2005 5:14 PM

WHISPER


Quote:

Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:
Quote:

Originally posted by Whisper:
While I love everything about Firefly, there has always been one word that has bugged me. It was from ep Serenity and was the word "humped." It just sounds stupid. Everyone that I have shown the series to have laughed at that line, saying how stupid the word was.

That's my only nitpick but i've since gotten used to it and don't roll my eyes at it anymore.

www.whispergraphics.net]


"Humped" is a euphemism for "f**ked," and has been for decades.



I know what it's a euphemism for. I still maintain it sounds dumb. "Screwed" may be overused but it still works well. Maybe if they only had said it once it wouldn't have bugged me so much, but they used it 3(?) times.

Another one from Serenity... "Backbirth." I assume that it means a breech birth but it doesn't really make sense when used in regard to someone intelligence.

www.whispergraphics.net

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Monday, August 29, 2005 5:32 PM

NEOGUY


Do you have any facts to back that up, not to sound unbelieving.

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Monday, August 29, 2005 5:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Backbirth"

Maybe it's Back Berth. As in Berthing in the rear? Like maybe having the cheap seats? And therefore being ignorant po folk?

I seem to recall that there was disdain for the cheap seat occupants in the days of the Titanic. Maybe this harkens back to that.

I'm not a Back Berth = I'm not stupid white trash or I'm not an idiot county bumpkin.

Such like that there?

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, August 29, 2005 6:24 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY


Quote:

Originally posted by Whisper:

Another one from Serenity... "Backbirth." I assume that it means a breech birth but it doesn't really make sense when used in regard to someone intelligence.



It's actually "back berth," and it's an old sailing term equivalent to greenhorn.

In the days of sail, the newest, least experienced sailor aboard ship got the back berth in the Fore Castle -- strangely enough, it was the most forward berth in the ship, and subsequently had the greatest motion from the seas, and the least ventilation.

He was saying in effect, "I wasn't born yesterday."

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Monday, August 29, 2005 6:32 PM

WHISPER


That makes much more sense! Thanks! Hmmm, maybe i should watch the show with subtitles at some point.

www.whispergraphics.net

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Monday, August 29, 2005 6:49 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY


Quote:

Originally posted by Whisper:
That makes much more sense! Thanks! Hmmm, maybe i should watch the show with subtitles at some point.



That always helps me! Then again -- now that I'm entering geezerhood -- sometimes I have too. My hearing isn't what it once was.

Actually, I don't remember how it was spelled in the sub-titles. Also, you might get a kick out of the mistakes that were made in the subtitles.

One example was in TRASH, when Mal calls Yolanda-Saffron-Briget "Yo-Saf-Brige." The subtitles say, "Speaks Chinese."

Another funny one -- to me at least -- is in the episode SHINDIG, where, as Badger is leaving Serenity, he says, "Ta for a nice evening then."

I don't remember what the subtitles say, but whoever wrote them didn't know that "Ta" is a British slang term for "thank you."

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:27 AM

SHORNY


Dumbest lines in Firefly?

Anything said by River, Jayne, or Book in French. Have you every listened to the French voiceovees of the episodes. River sounds like she’s three (very nigh voice), Jayne sounds like a butler (too smart), and Book sounds like a Klingon (very, very low). Oh and Zoe sounds like a ditz (I forgot that one)

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:33 AM

SHORNY


Quote:


Actually, it is a great line. A full skirted dress would be downright dangerous in the engine room, probably get caught on moving parts. BTW--Sheep walk on all fours. Send me your address and I'll send you a sheep. You can see for yourself.





So, is he saying Kaylee would look like a sheep or that Kaylee dressed up like a lady would be as unlikely as a sheep walking on tow legs?

Moreover, I grew up on a farm and our farmhand raised sheep and he had one with 6 legs, but it was stillborn. Not relevant I know it was just a creepy looking dead sheep.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:41 AM

R1Z


Quote:

So, is he saying Kaylee would look like a sheep or that Kaylee dressed up like a lady would be as unlikely as a sheep walking on tow legs?


Meaning Kaylee in a full skirt would be as impractical and inefficient as a sheep walking on its hind legs.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:44 AM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by Shorny:
I grew up on a farm and our farmhand raised sheep and he had one with 6 legs, but it was stillborn.


Poor li'l thang never saw the light of day, now it's in Fireflyfans.net

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:49 AM

R1Z


Quote:

Another funny one -- to me at least -- is in the episode SHINDIG, where, as Badger is leaving Serenity, he says, "Ta for a nice evening then."

I don't remember what the subtitles say, but whoever wrote them didn't know that "Ta" is a British slang term for "thank you."



What would be wrong with "Thank you for a nice night?"

Although, actually, what he says is "Ta (thank you) very much for a lovely night, then."


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:20 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE


The only line I cringe at is Zoe in the pilot,where Mal and the crew are laughing at Simon for believing that Kaylee is dead.
"So,Kaylee is really okay?"

To me that line was written for the morons who couldn't follow the story. Two seconds before they show Kaylee waving at Simon!?!?! Overall it's not a big deal,but for me that's the dumbest line in the entire series.

"Hamsters is nice."

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:27 AM

RIVERNOT


Quote:

Originally posted by tmurrie:
I agree that there are no dumb lines in Firefly, and you really just don't get it. But if I have to give an example it would be when in The Train Job Jayne is laughing about what Wash said about blowing a new crater in this little moon, it seemed out of character because I could never see Jayne laughing at anything Wash says.



I always though Jayne laughed there because he really liked the idea of blowing a new crater in something regardless of who made the suggestion.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:50 AM

CAPTAINREYNOLDS42


worst line in firefly hands down

Random villager : she's a witch

Mal: yeah but she's our witch

Good lord did joss get bruce campbell to write that for him


If someone trys to kill you, you kill em right back

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:22 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:

Serenity frequently needs all systems running when the engines are off and she's not docked at a spaceport. Everything works while the engines are off while the ship's on Triumph, St. Albans and on whatever moon the Heart O' Gold is on.

Makes sense for all but gravity. The power needed to generate a gravity on board for hours w/out the engine on would have to come from a battery bigger than Serenity itself, IMHO.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:31 AM

R1Z


Quote:

The only line I cringe at is Zoe in the pilot,where Mal and the crew are laughing at Simon for believing that Kaylee is dead.
"So,Kaylee is really okay?"

To me that line was written for the morons who couldn't follow the story. Two seconds before they show Kaylee waving at Simon!?!?! Overall it's not a big deal,but for me that's the dumbest line in the entire series.



WE, via the camera's p.o.v. have been to the infirmary, but Zoe hasn't, therefore she's asking how Kaylee's doing, at a period just after "the golden hour" when minutes mean everything.

Wash hasn't been to the infirmary, either, he's been "rabbiting" the ship away from the Alliance cruiser.

Makes perfect sense to me.





To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:34 AM

R1Z


Quote:

worst line in firefly hands down

Random villager : she's a witch

Mal: yeah but she's our witch

Good lord did joss get bruce campbell to write that for him



Watch yourself! If you get to pickin' on my man Bruce, or Brisco, as some of us still call him, things are gonna get REAL ugly real fast.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:38 AM

R1Z


Quote:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by R1Z:

Serenity frequently needs all systems running when the engines are off and she's not docked at a spaceport. Everything works while the engines are off while the ship's on Triumph, St. Albans and on whatever moon the Heart O' Gold is on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Makes sense for all but gravity. The power needed to generate a gravity on board for hours w/out the engine on would have to come from a battery bigger than Serenity itself, IMHO.



Actually, generating a gravity field can be done just as efficiently as generating light or sound, once you know the trick. (The trick will be discovered in 2300 a.d.)

Like so many things, it's only hard when you don't know how to do it.



To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:43 AM

SLOWSMURF


You seem to forget that Anti-Gravity, engines, terraforming, and anything else convienient to the plot is made of magic on Firefly.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 11:43 AM

R1Z


Quote:

I agree that there are no dumb lines in Firefly, and you really just don't get it. But if I have to give an example it would be when in The Train Job Jayne is laughing about what Wash said about blowing a new crater in this little moon, it seemed out of character because I could never see Jayne laughing at anything Wash says.


He's not laughing at what Wash says, he's laughing at the yokels, who don't know a transport ship has no guns.

Kinda like threatening to blow up a tank with a greyhound bus, or holding up a bank with a comb in your pocket, pretending it's a gun.


To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:23 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY







You're correct about the actual dialog, and there's nothing "wrong" with it.

I was just amused by the error in the subtitle, which was, "So, very much for a lovely night, then." Doesn't make much sense with that mistake, does it?

"Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." R. A. Heinlein








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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:27 PM

R1Z


Oops, my mistake. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. I've never turned on the subtitles.

How humiliating. And in front of another Heinlein fan, to boot!

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:38 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY


R1Z wrote:
Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:27
Oops, my mistake. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. I've never turned on the subtitles.

How humiliating. And in front of another Heinlein fan, to boot!

************************

We all make mistakes . . . don't worry about it.

It was a microscopic one anyway.

And yes, I too am a great Heinlein fan.

In fact, years ago, I personally knew the man upon whom Heinlein based his character of Professor Bernardo De La Paz.



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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:56 PM

LOADANDMAKEREADY


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by BlueBomber:
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
All cargo and transport ships are constructed with an exotic element yet to be discovered that exerts a gravitational pull to simulate gravity on board. It does not require power, except to negate it's effects (As in the pilot when they were bringing cargo in from space, Mal clearly pushed a button to cut off the gravity-negation field to drop the crates on the floor).
Lights are backed up by bio-luminecence, a loss of power and those little critters glow something fierce, almost as bright as the real thing.

YFC Chrisisall





Me thinks ya got it perxackly backwards.

You don't need a "gravity negation field" in space . . . where there is no gravity.

What Mal did was to turn the artificial gravity back on.

Serenity DOES have artificial gravity. Do you remember in THE MESSAGE, where Kaylee explained how the artificial gravity and natural gravity toss the lunch around a bit when they conflict?



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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:19 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by LoadAndMakeReady:


Serenity DOES have artificial gravity. Do you remember in THE MESSAGE, where Kaylee explained how the artificial gravity and natural gravity toss the lunch around a bit when they conflict?



No, I must check this immediatly. Thanks.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:49 PM

TRUTHSEEKER


Quote:

Originally posted by captainreynolds42:
worst line in firefly hands down

Random villager : she's a witch

Mal: yeah but she's our witch

Good lord did joss get bruce campbell to write that for him


If someone trys to kill you, you kill em right back



Let's just take a moment to examine the line in it's entirety and in context before we go casting aspersions on one of my favorites, shall we?

The line is: "Yeah, but she's our witch, so cut her the Hell down!"

Remember, that the emotional context of the episode is River and Simon's search for a home, a place where they can be "Safe." Earlier in the episode, Mal has made another reference to kicking them off his ship if Simon can't control River. When the hill folk's teacher asks, "If it isn't here, where is it?" referring to Simon's home, he can't answer her. Serenity isn't their home yet because they haven't been accepted as part of the crew/ family. When Simon sees Serenity take off without them, he's convinced that the captain has abandoned them, so when the BDHs arrive just in the nick of time, he's astonished.

When Mal says, "She's our witch," he is both acknowledging all of the things that make River "different," scary, inconvenient, etc. *and* claiming her as part of his crew/ family in the same breath. That moment, when Mal claims River, and by extension Simon, is the climax of the episode distilled into two perfect words. "Our witch."

Later, Mal has to spell this out for Simon, who still can't quite believe that he's no longer in danger of being rejected by this new father figure. "You're on my crew." "Yeah, but you don't even like me." "You're on my crew. Why we still talkin' about this?"

Joss is a cinematic poet. For the ideas that really matter, he distills his stories down into only what *needs* to be said, and trusts the viewer to infer the rest.

*** *** ***
The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:57 PM

OURMRREYNOLDS


The line in HoG where she says "I've been waiting for you to kiss me since I showed you my gun" C'mon. The delivery and line itself bother me because it could have been a passionate touching moment. And like we geeks need another big guns cause raging libidos scene in anything.

Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

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