GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

It CAN'T be true!!! *major movie spoilers*

POSTED BY: ENGINEANGEL
UPDATED: Saturday, March 25, 2006 20:58
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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:13 AM

DINO


SO TRUE, i thought they were all gone. Anything became possible and, to be honest, i didnt much care after that point. They could all die and it still wouldnt compare to how awful it was to lose the heart of the crew.

''how did she get here?! WE'RE IN SPACE!''

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:41 AM

JAYNEANDVERA


I love Wash. Definitely my favorite character, but I also loved his death. I thought it was well done. For most people it caused a worry about the rest of the crew, and for others it gave a sense of realism. Yes I understand that its fiction, but even so I enjoy a huge battle with a few deaths than one where everyone makes it. I will miss Wash, but glad to see him go joking.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:22 AM

DRE


I haven't had time to read through all the replies, so maybe my two cents has already been anted.

The logical choice for killing a character would be Wash or Kaylee. Both are the two most innoncent members of the crew (who really have no quarrel with the antognistic forces of the series/movie/verse), and both show that Mal's fighting can cost the entire world around him.

Mal is a soldier. His character is so imbedded in what he believes (or lost belief) in. He has to regress in order to progress. But what his fights cost him, that's what makes him so hard. And how he copes with it? Well, love keeps you flying. The whole speech at the end ties him in to how he keeps going when so much of his life is come and go, dust in the wind.

Emotionally, Wash taking the bullet shows that 'verse is cruel, the truth is harsh, and that everything Serenity stands for is on the brink of destruction. So, the innocent suffer in war. That means Kaylee or Wash.

Kaylee dying would have been a nice clincher to Simon's arc, but he hasn't 'vocalized' his feelings until now. So it's kind of shooting a duck we never saw fly anyways, and the impact isn't as high. Killing Wash, on the other hand, makes us question more in the movie and characters itself.

Interestingly, it's more palpable in terms of future conetent to play with Wash dying, cause it impacts Zoe, Mal, even the rest of the crew as they react to those two alone.

Other characters wouldn't have made as big an impact to -Mal-, except Zoe and Inara, however, Wash dealing with Zoe's death isn't as gold-mined as vice-versa, and Mal and Inara's relationship has not elevated to the point where it would be -more- signifigant, although eventually it will, and it'll be neat to see how Mal would deal with Inara when he's actually professed himself to her.

Like 'Shindig', only with a much, meaner, 'War Stories' Mal...

*side edit* It's GREAT being a theate and hearing the theatre laugh, and then suddenly GASP all at once.. THAT'S golden cinema.


IKIYO.
DRE

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:31 AM

DELTAFOURTWO


I apologize up front if what I'm about to offer has already been brought up. This is a really long thread and I haven't been able to read it all. But I wanted to mention that up front.

Okay, the reason I have for why Wash was killed is less of an emotional reason and completely a business reason. Now I feel like I read this reason somewhere else in the context that it may have been from an interview with Joss. I could be wrong about this. I may have just read another fans post about this and I'm inadvertantly coopting their post. None the less, it doesn't change the logic of why Wash was bumped off.

Of the cast members of "Firefly" and "Serenity", Alan Tudyk is probobly the one who has the most "blossoming" acting carrer of the bunch. As I'm sure most of you realize, he has played key roles in films such as "I, Robot", "Dodgeball", "A Knight's Tale" and "28 Days". As such, it is likely that he will continue to be cast in mainly A-List type films and programs. And because of this, he'll likely see an increase in the pay he gets for his subsiquent films.

Now I seem to recall Joss saying that it was very likely that IF they did get the chance to do a sequal to "Serenity", that of all the cast members that they would try to get back, Alan would probobly be the hardest to aquire. Mainly because his asking price for the rol would probobly be considerably higher than anything they could offer. And not because he was being greedy but because that's the nature of the acting biz. If you're in demand, then you can ask for more. And likely get it. So for that reason alone Joss knew that killing Wash was probobly going to be necessary so as not to cause problems with script and plotting of a "Serenity" sequal. It was simply better to take care of the problem now instead of later.

To sort of back this up, I refer to the interview with Alan in the "Serenity" officlai movie magazine. In the sidebar, "Wash's Journey", on page 30, Alan explains his feelings about the whole thing. And I quote:

"I really liked [Wash's fate]. I was a fan of it. Even when we did the show, I felt that Wash was a really good character to kill. In my head, I thought two seasons and [Joss] should kill me. No one would expect it. I even mentioned it to Joss once, about Wash being a good sympathetic kill."

There's a bit more to the sidebar but what you just read is the crux of the whole thing. I believe that Alan felt there was a chance that "Firefly" might go on for many seasons as "Buffy" and "Angel" were doing. And though I'm sure he was enjoying the experience of working on the television program, he, more so than any other cast members, likely knew that he had a serious chance at a growing film career.

So in opinion, had "Firefly" not been canceled by Fox, then at some point around season 2 or 3, we would have likely been witness to the sudden and shocking death of our beloved Hoban Washburne. No matter what, his death seemed to be inevitable.

This is of course only a fan's theory. :) But honestly, to me it's the reason we had to suffer through Wash's death. Good, bad or otherwise, when you're an actor in a certain possition, as I believe Alan Tudyk is, you gotta do what's "best for business". It's only logical. :)

Thanks for your time.

Browncoats Unite!!!

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:40 PM

UNSARDONIC


[ Mainly because his asking price for the rol would probobly be considerably higher than anything they could offer. And not because he was being greedy but because that's the nature of the acting biz. If you're in demand, then you can ask for more. And likely get it. So for that reason alone Joss knew that killing Wash was probobly going to be necessary so as not to cause problems with script and plotting of a "Serenity" sequal.
____________________________

Sigh... well, maybe you're right but, speaking as a film producer, if an actor's rate goes up and I want that actor, I'm happy to, ummm... make them happy. I'll kill 'em because, as a film writer, that's the story I wrote

HOHOHO

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:32 AM

DINO


I feel exactly the same and reacted just as you did. I got loads of grief off my friends for it because they think I've lost it or something.
I keep going to the DVD box and just looking at it, I just cant bring myself to watch it again - its ridiculous. Its been over two weeks but im convinced that it'll cure me maybe but im concerned how I might react.

It just all seemed so pointless.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:33 AM

DINO


I feel exactly the same and reacted just as you did. I got loads of grief off my friends for it because they think I've lost it or something.
I keep going to the DVD box and just looking at it, I just cant bring myself to watch it again - its ridiculous. Its been over two weeks but im convinced that it'll cure me maybe but im concerned how I might react.

It just all seemed so pointless.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:16 AM

ENGINEANGEL


wow, you have more restraint then me dino. I didn't know how i would react when i watched my dvds and said to myself that I just wouldn't watch them. I couldn't go for more than 3 days. *sigh* But i didn't cry or anything. I was very happy to see Wash back!!!

Keep flyin'
EngineAngel

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse. Rest In Peace (and then come back again!!!)

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Monday, October 24, 2005 6:58 AM

ENGINEANGEL


Does anyone have any more ideas for the next couple of movies?
What about bringing wash back?
Do you like the ideas posted on this thread or not?
Is there any news from Joss or any the cast on this subject that you have heard/read?

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

------------------------------------------------------

"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how i soar."
Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse. Rest in Peace (and then come back again!!!)

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Monday, October 24, 2005 11:03 PM

DINO


I did it! watched the pilot serenity. Alls well. might be ready to see film again...in a while...maybe....

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:17 AM

LORIE


If this has been stated in this thread, please forgive me, lol.
I don't understand the whole "Wash was killed because of business reasons."
Every interview I've seen with Joss, he has said it was for emotional reasoning.
Also, Joss has said that Book and Wash will be back for the sequal.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:17 AM

DINO


Im guessing we'll be seeing some flashbacks then...

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:15 AM

JAVIDRHO


moved to a new thread...

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:38 PM

ENGINEANGEL


no, i don't think there will be any flashbacks. Wash is coming back ... i have to believe that!!! and what did you say and mean JavidRho:
Quote:


moved to a new thread...


i don't understand what you mean.

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

------------------------------------------------------

"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how i soar."
Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse. Rest in Peace (and then come back again!!!)

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:46 PM

TRAKEN


Actually I really wish he had not killed Book, his untold story had a lot of potential. In fact the slower he told us about Book the more we could speculate about the back story. A neat trick in story telling is telling just enough to get people to fill in the blanks the way they like. Book was a great character for this reason.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:05 PM

ENGINEANGEL


in the official serenity magizine it says that Joss promised Ron Glass that they would see book and his secret again. Don't know if that means anything.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:23 PM

BALLAD


I translated this famous speech to chinese and back again. Can you guess what it is?

We minority, we are happy minority, we unify brothers; For his that shed his blood and I today am my brothers; Is his ne' er very vile, this day will pat his situation; And the gentlemen now the bed will think accurs' in England; d they are not here, and causes their manhoods cheaply to wear down any says that fight with us in 圣徒 Crispin' s day

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:40 PM

OBSIDIANAGIRL


Quote:

Originally posted by Zmann966:
Okay...

Maybe the Wash's actor (Alan Tudyk) either wanted out of the series or had other things to do (doubt it). But the easiest way to have a show lose a character is kill them off.. (I screamed when it happend, had popcorn chucked at my head...)
You'd have to ask Mr. Tudyk or Mr. Whedon...

Awesome movie though...
I laughed, I cried... I wish Wash hadn't of died... woe is me.

"Describe Interesting..."
"Oh God, Oh God, We're all gonna die?"




I screamed, too. I was upset we never found out more about Book when he died, but when Wash died I literally went into morning mode and had to go back to the next showing...thinking surely I'd been mistaken. I cried and people turned to look at the wierd woman in the back that was cursing and railing against the PTB killing Wash...he was such a bright spot in the show.

Sid

Mal and River rock as a couple and they have it all...sweetness, angst, fear, respect, understanding, and a chemistry to set fire to a fair bit of the landscape... visit the special hell at www.thespecialhell.com

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Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:05 AM

SANDS


"I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
Hoban 'Wash' Washburn was by far one of my favorite crew members on serenity. When he passed away I felt my stomach turn and then drop, it still depresses me. One rule that most writers have when it comes to killing off their characters is this:
“If you kill a character you better damn well love him”

Firefly, unlike so many other sci-fi shows, has a realism factor meaning it could very well be the present. The film covered the most dangers situation the crew was ever in, and because of the realism factor that Firefly has you can’t get into that much danger without people getting hurt and/or dieing.

(NOTE: Opinion based on memory please correct me if I’m wrong.)
I believe it was horribly symbolic that the only time Serenity crashes Wash dies. Wash wasn’t a fighter but was unmatched in his piloting abilities. His “last stand” was the crash, making it past The Reavers and The Alliance, the leaf on the wind, and after he won he died. He did what he meant to do he kept everyone on board alive and after serenity stopped living so did he. Of course they rebuilt Serenity, but I find it a heart warming testament that they kept his Dinosaurs at the terminal where he worked, and if they do bring back the show/movie I expect them to still be there.

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Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:40 AM

RACOONBOY


Here's what I think, River will be the new pilot, and when she's flying the ship, she will be able to "feel" Wash, and maybe even hear and see him, he will still be on the ship, and River would be in contact with him, to an extent.

And I would really look forward to something like that, I can also see Zoe taking some kind of dislike to River to begin with, being that she, in a sense, replaced Wash, and that she also doesn't like being in the cockpit area (the bridge, or whatever), becase it reminds her of Wash and upsets her, and makes her feel all sorts of emotions at once or something to that effect.

But yeah, that's what I see happening, but I probably mostly wrong.

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:58 PM

DUBAEL


Sad but true, and after watching the film, I played it with the director's commentary.
I didn't like either Hoban or Derrial getting killed, but yes it makes sense.
You're right, with the death of Derrial Book, we see Malcolm motivated to revenge and the seed of belief replanted in his soul. With the death of Hoban Washburn, we really do get the impression that 'O Dear GAWD, this is it, they're all going to DIE!' After the death of Hoban, when Zoe is hit, will she survive or fall. When Simon is hit, is this the end of Dynamic Duo, the Tam Family? Jayne is also injured as is Kaywinnit Lee, and it could be the end of everyone. Malcolm is down below, battling with the Operative, and when River goes to the 'rescue' we don't know for sure that she will prevail, which considering Mr. Whedon's penchant for young dynamic powerhouse heroines it's reasonable to assume that when she does go through the door the tide has turned. We have to worry that that could be it. This could be the last episode of the Firefly saga.
Now, as to bringing Hoban and Derrial back, that's simple... flashbacks, back story elements and stuff like that. Zoe remembers, everyone remembers. There could also be any number of opportunities for fleshing out more episodes (you the ones that would have continued to be made had the LORDS OF THE EARTH at Fux hadn't cancelled the show). I don't think we've seen the last of Alan Tudyk, and we'll get to see him and Gina Torres getting chuddlesome too I suspect. However, we'll also get to see the storyline progress in other ways.
Is River completely fine? Her Amigdala is still surgically stripped, are the Reavers all gone or are there others out there? Will the Parliament leave well enough alone? (I don't think so, but hey, I've been known to suspect Government of all sorts of malfeasance... and I'm a Canuckistani *grin*)
So, cheer up, and raise a glass to Wash and his gorramn dinosaurs. He may not always be in camera with Zoe or Mal, but he'll be in our hearts.

And all should cry, Beware ! Beware !
His flashing eyes, his floating hair !
Weave a circle round him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey-dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise.

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