GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What Happened to Hoban Washburn (spoilers)

POSTED BY: OPERATIVE
UPDATED: Sunday, December 17, 2006 16:20
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9052
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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:15 AM

OPERATIVE


Hello Browncoat Sympatizers,

Of course I cannot use a name because I do not exist. I am another operative of the Parliament, yet one who is not unsympathetic to your cause. I have been working my contacts to find out what happened in the recent skirmish prior to the now infamous broadcast of the Alliance's secret about Miranda. The following account covers what was happening around the ship Serenity while its crew battled the reavers inside.
After the crew hastily fled the reavers into the building to complete their mission, the reavers followed them inside without even entering Serenity or leaving any guards. The Alliance ship followed them in hot on their heels, but decided to wait outside as per orders from the operative.
Once they established control outside the building, they went into Serenity to see if anyone was there and found the pilot staked through the seat with a big wooden bolt. He had regained consciousness again but was in very serious condition. The large bolt had crashed through a lung and destroyed it and the hydrostatic shock that had knocked him unconscious had nearly killed him.
The captain of the Alliance destroyer had him cryo'ed to take back to a core world hospital for repairs so he could be used for questioning. When the operative's behavior started becoming dubious, the captain decided to not bother mentioning his prisoner.
As it turns out, the captain was not exactly the career Alliance servant he appeared. He was in the secret employ of Blue Sun, who want to get their hands on River Tam even more than Parliament does. He was there to watch the operative and get River from him if he could. As the operative commanded all the Alliance forces on the scene, the captain found himself unable to gather River in, but he was able to keep his prisoner a secret.
After the crew emerged from the building, they and the operative assumed that reavers had taken the pilot's body. The captain had by that time withdrawn his crewmen as the admiral's marines secured the scene. As of this writing no one outside of Blue Sun is aware of their possession of Hoban Washburn. The Alliance captain and his ship and crew were mysteriously reported missing and are presumed also to be reaver victims.
I was able to find out that Washburn recovered fully from his injuries and is now healthy enough to be questioned by Blue Sun. From what I've heard of their information gathering techniques, I would suggest that someone mount a rescue operation soon. It is said that no one keeps secrets from Blue Sun.
My motives for revealing this are not any great sympathy for the Browncoat cause. I am loyal to the Alliance. My charge is to investigate the extent to which Blue Sun has infiltrated our ranks and what their agenda might be. River Tam is of little use to us now, but one of those members of Parliament whose minds she was exposed to was a top Blue Sun plant. She may hold within her damaged mind more than Parliament's secrets. I need to know why Blue Sun wants her even worse than we do, and who else in the Alliance's highest ranks is in their pockets.



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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:27 AM

GERSHOM


I will say this only once...

'E's dead, 'E's passed on! This pilot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If Reivers hadn't nailed 'im to the seat 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!!

'Nuff said, get over it!

(with sympathies to Monty Python) BTW do you seriously think Zoe didn't notice that the body she buried wasn't Wash??? Duh!

"Every heist, he's gotta start yelling my name..."

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:34 AM

PYREFX


sure he's dead... but it's nice to think about. i mean, come on, Wash the Ninja Pilot! how cool would that be?

"I call her Vera."

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:59 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


Dude, come up for air.

If you want to ressurect him, do it in a schmaltzy fic like the rest of us.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:36 AM

BUCKTHORN42


Yeah.... Wash's death was in the same line as Darth Maul's death in SW: Ep I. I'd heard that Lucas didn't want the fans to think that there was *any* chance of Darth Maul coming back, so having Obi Wan cut him in half and fling his body down a shaft was the death chosen to get that point across. I would think that the manner in which Whedon had Wash killed was the same thing. He knew, of course, how attached people were to Wash and would desperately cling to hope that he 'somehow' survived. So his death had to be decisive, unquestionable. I think he did that admirably.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 12:21 PM

OPERATIVE


Although the bolt did destroy one lung and shatter several ribs, the injury was severe but survivable. There was no body, no burial, and no grave. There were simply memorials on small round bases, so no one was buried there. If there was a body when they returned to the ship, they would have buried it, wouldn't they? And they would have placed the memorial there with the grave. They believe he was taken by the reavers.
He is now a prisoner of Blue Sun.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:01 PM

DREAMTROVE


I'd like to see Hoban as an undead warrior of the mutant plague people. A freakish twist on that planet can turn the dead back to life for a zombie run at eating the living. Wash was always a funny guy, I'm sure he can be a goofball corpse.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:27 PM

MAJINBUU


Personally, I find the operative's story compelling. Not simply as a "oh, I wish it were true" kind of thing, but it points to several lingering issues. Such as, the mysterious absence of the 2-by-2 in the operative's mission, and the fact that the Reavers landed and burst into Mr. Universe's pad hot on the BDH's heals, but the alliance didn't enter until much later.

I say, "Good story telling!"


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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:33 PM

LOGGERHEAD


Wash is coming back as Zoe's love-bot.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:49 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I was just as upset as anyone about Wash's death the first time I saw Serenity, but I have moved on from that and can accept Joss' decision about what to do with his characters. If Wash returns in any way other than a flashback, dream sequence and/or hallucination, that is when I will take my leave of the 'verse.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:26 PM

DARKJESTER


Gershom wrote:

Quote:

'E's dead, 'E's passed on! This pilot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If Reivers hadn't nailed 'im to the seat 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!!


If you want anything done in this country you've got to argue 'till you're blue in the hands...!!

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:16 PM

DERANGEDMILK


Wow, theres two minutes I want back. I don't know whether hes coming back or no but c'mon, let the man tell the story. I've heard worse theories, but lets all do what we can to help get a sequel made so we can all find out who Sheppard Book really is(Joss said in an interview that telling us anything about his past would ruin the plot of a sequel).
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:25 PM

LADYBLUE


Quote:

Originally posted by operative:
Although the bolt did destroy one lung and shatter several ribs, the injury was severe but survivable. There was no body, no burial, and no grave. There were simply memorials on small round bases, so no one was buried there. If there was a body when they returned to the ship, they would have buried it, wouldn't they? And they would have placed the memorial there with the grave. They believe he was taken by the reavers.
He is now a prisoner of Blue Sun.



Operative - I love your POV. I'd pay to see it (multiple times).

Fellow Browncoats, I hold you (most of you anyway) in the highest regard and affection but....as long as I have breath and strength I will not give up Hoban...so let's just agree to disagree with civility - be kind to the Operative. He/She is not being nasty.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:57 PM

LIMINALOSITY


Quote:

Originally posted by operative:
Hello Browncoat Sympatizers,

Of course I cannot use a name because I do not exist.

He had regained consciousness again but was in very serious condition. The large bolt had crashed through a lung and destroyed it and the hydrostatic shock that had knocked him unconscious had nearly killed him.

After the crew emerged from the building, they and the operative assumed that reavers had taken the pilot's body.




OK, I think your costume is creepy.

On the other hand, Joss likes to bring people back from our assumption of their death.

On the third hand (since it is closing in on Halloween, when creepy costumes abound), I think the possibilities of Wash returning as BorgWash, AlienWash, or HoloWash are all and sundry not good enough for Joss.

On the Bluehand, I think the crew would have left no stone unturned if a living Wash or his body had been missing from Serenity. No stone, no pebble, no last favor the shamed and willing Operative had in his power to grant.

I can hardly wait to see how Joss does bring him back, because I doubt that not at all. Remember the dinos are still on the console. Would Zoe have countenanced that? Nah, way too maudlin. In my op.

Will we see the story of FF/S replayed in future movies, as we have seen with Star Wars (28 days) and other fables (Road Warrior, ie)? Wouldn't that be a hoot 20 years from now in some other vehicle? Hopefully a good and worthy vehicle, but still. Aaak aak ak ak ak. The horror, the horror.

Alright, I'm in the mood for Halloween now.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:16 PM

THEPYRO


I love Wash, but there ar ea few more things wrong with this theory, as much as i hate to say it....DID YOU SEE THE MOVIE, that twig was like 20 in in diameter, biggerthan his torso. it'd take out more than a lung, more like his heart, both lungs, run all his ribs into any vital organ still in operation. But say he did live, i agree with who ever said that zoe would leave no stone unturned. It a well known fact reavers dont bother with dead persons, so wouldn't it be alittle suspicious to Zoe and the crew if they got back and had no body? They'd look for him, but certainly not by giving him a memorial, if that last scence wasnt in the movie, witht eh memorials, i'd say this would be more fesable....But if there are ways to get around these and anyother problems i'd say LETS GO GET WASH FROM THE ALLIANCE! lol

the pyro

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:26 PM

LIMINALOSITY


Yeah yeah, but 500 years in the future is a very long time. Medically speaking.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:27 PM

RODASH


This is my kind of high-larious. I'm with you PYRO let's join up and GO GET WASH FROM THE ALLIANCE.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:51 PM

RABBIT2


Look, that thing wasn`t just a ****** bolt. It was the end a goram great claw attached to the reaver`s ship that had just punched through the goram hull.
Wash died in seconds as it went through him and the rest of the crew unsurprisingly ran for it.
By the time the cleanup by the Alliance happened the reavers had plenty of time to sample `Pilot on a stick" or anything else their sick minds could come up with.
Wash is dead and not coming back except in some kind of flashback.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 7:59 PM

SPRINGFAERY


This is why fan-fiction is a beautiful thing. You can indulge yourself all you want in fantasies of Wash, Book, Padme, My Favorite Babylon 5 character being resurrected in a zillion different ways without actually destroying the integrity of the show. And it makes you feel good ^_^

That being said, there are probably ways that Wash could be brought back that would be decent stories that don't feel cheap (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but this is why Joss is doing the writing and not me). For example, I thought the way Darla was brought back in Angel was really cool and used to good effect.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:23 PM

SHERIFF


I think this is an interesting thread. The operative is on to something, I think. If Joss wanted to make sure we all knew Wash was dead beyond all doubt, he could have shown the body. Instead we see him get a very serious injury and then nothing but a memorial with no apparent grave. There were no freshly dug graves in that scene, I just watched it again today. Yet another reason to go back and watch it again!

Could he have survived? People nowadays survive getting impaled by fenceposts through the chest in car accidents. That stake looked about the size of a baseball bat where it was in him. It was high enough that it either hit lungs or heart.

Even the car accident/fencepost victims that die usually last a while and die in the hospital. I looked it up on the internet. Even saw one where they said the guy lived because the fencepost stopped the blood loss. Some were awake and talking while they were being cut out. It happens more than you'd think.

With 26th century medicine from the Alliance......... well we know they can easily swap organ sets just to transport them (The Message) and that they can hold people in some kind of stasis (first time we saw River). With no medical treatment he wouldn't have lasted long, but someone could have gotten to him within a few minutes.

So, since it is highly unlikely he died instantly unless it hit his heart, then he would have been alive when the reavers chased the crew inside. It would be reasonable for them to think the reavers took him alive not dead.

I don't remember Mal or Zoe checking for a pulse or otherwise making sure he was dead before they left. Both are battlefield vets who would understand they couldn't save him and could only die if they tried to stay and help him. They had to run and they had to leave him behind.

So, I think the Operative's story is convincing. It definitely could be true. If Wash's body was gone when they got back to Serenity, only the Alliance or the reavers could have taken it. If it happened the way the Operative says then the movie Operative wouldn't have known about it. Maybe that Alliance captain was thinking reward.

We never saw Wash actually dead, just for a few seconds after he was hit by the spike. Wash lives, and I bet he isn't very happy about being left for the reavers.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:07 PM

RODASH


Quote:

Originally posted by sheriff:
We never saw Wash actually dead, just for a few seconds after he was hit by the spike. Wash lives, and I bet he isn't very happy about being left for the reavers.



Sheriff,

Ya, I bet Wash is pissed too.

Remember, BEWARE of the Alliance; they are everywhere. They will try to meddle with you, tell you what to do, what to think, tell you Wash is dead, get in your home and your head. No, they haven't the right, but they will try.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 7:24 PM

BOWOLF31


Looks like someone has been paying attention. After my first Serenity experience, I was dissappointed-angry-in disbelief that our lovable pilot had perished.THEN I remembered who was writing this story.If Joss decides to bring back Wash I'm sure it will be something like that. A+ for effort. Operative, it's nice to see someone else who understands how Joss works.

Book "Three sets of eyes better than two, might see somrthing you don't."

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:31 PM

KAIN


WASH LIVES!!!

Kain

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:16 PM

KELAI


Quote:

Originally posted by Gershom:

'E's dead, 'E's passed on! This pilot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If Reivers hadn't nailed 'im to the seat 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!!




Is this Pizmo?? Because I'm getting an awful sense of deja vu.

http://www.stillflying.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264&postdays=0&postor
der=asc&start=30



--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:23 PM

KELAI


Oh yes, and bring on the WASH LIVES party. I just don't want anything cheezy. And I trust Joss to not make it cheezy. If he really is dead, I will go on. And live in my own world of fanfiction.

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 2:37 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I certainly hope Wash isn't " taking the big dirt nap with Baby Jesus." But it's a small hope...

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:40 PM

PIRATECAT


As Capt Reynolds would say "TRAP", First Mate Zoe would say "Why should we trust an operative", Jayne " I don't see the profit in a rescue", Kaylee and Inara "can they do that, is it possible" to Simon, and Simon's reply "they need fresh organs and quick". River "his spirit never died".



"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Sunday, December 17, 2006 4:20 PM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER


Quote:

Originally posted by MajinBuu:
Personally, I find the operative's story compelling. Not simply as a "oh, I wish it were true" kind of thing, but it points to several lingering issues. Such as, the mysterious absence of the 2-by-2 in the operative's mission, and the fact that the Reavers landed and burst into Mr. Universe's pad hot on the BDH's heals, but the alliance didn't enter until much later.

I say, "Good story telling!"




Actually, 'Those Left Behind' did a great job of addressing why the Hands of Blue weren't in the movie. Them being dead is a good reason not to continue looking for River.

On topic, this is actually the exact idea I had (minus the Blue Sun angle) to explain Wash being alive. It's good to see I'm not alone in that mindset.

And before the trolls flame me for saying that, let me explain something here, to all the naysayers to this thread. The series, as we know it, is dead. There is nothing in the works to continue the saga (other than the rumored MMORPG). That means that we, the fans, have the ability to make the the 'verse in our image and present alternate histories and additional possabilities. This isn't a vain attempt to hold onto some miniscule hope that if, at somepoint, they decide to make another movie or series that Wash will come back, it's presenting us with a 'what if?'. If you don't like what's presented, take your happy ass to another thread and keep your negative posts off this thread. Operative has done more (in writing one fanfic) than most people have ever done. So props to him for stepping up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll be in my bunk.
XO of the 76th Battalion http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower


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