GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity without Wash and Book?...how?

POSTED BY: SHOOTO
UPDATED: Friday, December 23, 2005 09:18
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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:25 AM

SHOOTO


I just can't figure out how Serenity can continue without Wash and Book...how can you kill off MAJOR characters, family members really, and keep the same vibe?

I'm sure this has been brought up...anyone have ideas or point to a thread that already discusses it?

thanks




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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:30 AM

SAMEERTIA


The vibe will change.
The crew will grow and develop in new ways.

The wheel never stops turning, and it doesn't just matter to the people on the rim. It keeps going, and the cogs shift and fill in the gaps.


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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:40 AM

GRAYFURY


Thats life... (or in this case the imitation of life) its a testament to the project, "how can this be?!?" I, as I'm sure we all have, have lost important people in my life. Its hard, its a struggle through the mire of denial. The vacuum of loss makes life in the present seem muddled and surreal. But life goes on... Maybe Mal takes a trip to Southdown abbey to get Books death off his chest. River is quite a capable pilot. and Zoe will find love elsewhere... shes been through as much as anybody on the ship. Maybe she starts F'in Jayne....Oh wait, she would never let that happen.

"Smellin' alot of IF comin' offa' this plan!"

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:41 AM

SERENYTY


personally I think this is what makes a good story. The last...6-7 minutes (after the funeral) are the most powerful to me. The ability to go on with a terrible loss like that... that shows the strength of the crew. The fact that they can pick up and keep on going: that's truly interesting.

I'll miss them too. But we needed to see with their deaths that we didn't know what was going to happen. All of them could have died, and we were afraid. If they killed Wash, then anything could happen.

~A message from Serenyty~

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:42 AM

GEEJAKE


Like many Movie franchises did..They went on without important characters..Still got 7 great characters 8 if you include the new alliance operative...This has been debated on both sides of the isle on many threads..Any threads with fans feedback on the movie usually touches on the Why are they dead question...My guess is at least 99% of the people on this site are fans of Firefly or Serenity if not both..That being the case you are probably a Joss fan..So I would suggest that watching the intro by Joss would be a great idea...I cant remember it word for word but if you dont like the Movie this is a time for Quiet and deep reflexion for the next few months...I guess alot of people thought Joss was joking...

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:45 AM

SHOOTO


so, nothing's been hinted at?

I think Zoe is pregnant...

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:53 AM

SHOOTO


no..I am a real fan of both...didn't see Joss's intro and will check it out...

again, this is probably beating a dead horse...to the fans of the show that had so much invested in the characters...it makes no sense...I can't pick an "expendable" character...I, like others, had grown attached-

for the fans of just the movie, it probably doesn't matter...since they didn't invest in knowing the characters and they may seem minor-

we know they weren't-


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Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:28 AM

WOLFE426


The only problem I had with the movie was that Wash was killed too quickly ... almost like a passing thought ... too small to even notice and Zoe's response to Wash's death seemed too cold and unfeeling.

Book, I could see them killing that character off but Wash? Josh Whedon should be hanged for killing off one of our beloved characters.

From what I'm hearing though, is that Firefly could return as a new movie, but only for the small screen. You never know though, Universal might very well put up the movie for a sequel if fans buy the DVD like crazy. But Universal's plan to offer a $10 discount on Battlestar Galactica is going to backfire. Why? Because fans will go out and buy 20th Century Fox's Firefly DVD Boxed set.

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:39 AM

SPINLAND


How?

Well, for starters, keeping the same vibe was never an option with Whedon. His characters were (are? one hopes) going to endure major changes and shake-ups as time wore on. Keeping the same actors in the same roles year after year is for Trek, not Firefly.

How could they go on? Zoe has major loss/abandonment issues to work through, which could actually put cracks in her unswerving loyalty to Mal. Mal has to reconcile a new worldly perspective in the face of the "same old same old" grind of keeping his ship flying--not to mention guilt issues over Book's death (and maybe also Wash's, since it was his Reaver Gambit that got Wash killed). Simon has to let go and let River flex her wings. River has a life to recapture, and her place in the crew is still a new, untested thing. Kaylee and Simon have a very wrong, doomed relationship to stumble through. Inara and Mal have lots more relationshiop issue stuff to work out. Jayne ... has more Being Jayne to do.

The show could so very much go on, and just as good as ever, with many a devious plot turn and twist afoot.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:54 AM

SHOOTO


Spinland...interesting views-

and you're right I think about keeping the same vibe not an option...it isn't Trek...but, damn, it was like watching one of your friends get killed-

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:46 AM

HJERMSTED


Quote:

Originally posted by shooto:
I just can't figure out how Serenity can continue without Wash and Book...how can you kill off MAJOR characters, family members really, and keep the same vibe?

I'm sure this has been brought up...anyone have ideas or point to a thread that already discusses it?

thanks



Ummm... FLASHBACKS!

Joss loves them. We haven't seen the last of Alan and Ron in the 'Verse.

If I'm not mistaken, they are both contracted for three films total (assuming the last two are greenlit by Universal)

Also... River has read Wash's and Book's minds. They could speak to her ala Obi Wan kenobi. There are directions Whedon can go with his original cast involved.

mattro

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:02 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

again, this is probably beating a dead horse...to the fans of the show that had so much invested in the characters...it makes no sense...I can't pick an "expendable" character...I, like others, had grown attached-

Erm, that's kinda the point. Death hurts.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:31 AM

ETHAN


Did y'all see Wash and Books' death alluded to in the title of this thread......

..SPOILEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:31 AM

CAPTAINCDC


Quote:

Originally posted by Spinland:
Kaylee and Simon have a very wrong, doomed relationship to stumble through.




Wrong? Doomed?

I like Kaylee and Simon together at least for now. Opposites attract and all that.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:40 AM

SPINLAND


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincdc:
Quote:

Originally posted by Spinland:
Kaylee and Simon have a very wrong, doomed relationship to stumble through.


Wrong? Doomed?
I like Kaylee and Simon together at least for now. Opposites attract and all that.


Yeah, that's totally just my perspectives coming out. Assuming the story continues to be told, I see rocky roads ahead for our oh-so-pretty couple. Just sayin'!

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:40 AM

J6NGO1977


Quote:

Originally posted by ethan:
Did y'all see Wash and Books' death alluded to in the title of this thread......

..SPOILEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Noooooooooooooooo I haven't seen Serenity yet. Wash is 1 of my fave chracters. I am really sad now :(

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:42 AM

ATANOK


The world would keep on going.

Although in adding to the denial; they could, like many other franchises, say that the movie was an alternate reality, and the show would go off in a different direction. A lot of franchises before did the same, and Joss seems like the type to do that type of thing.

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:51 AM

THEREAVER


To quote Avenged Sevenfold
Quote:

I'll miss my family, I'll never be alright.


Oddly enough, the song in question (Strength of the World) has a violin at the beginning which gives me Serenity vibes.

-----------------------
I'll rape you to death.
I'll eat your flesh.
I'll sew your skin into my clothes.
If you're very very lucky, I'll do it in that order - TheReaver

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:10 PM

ENGINEANGEL


are you insane!!!! this is not a good title for a thread everyone is going to see. you need to put a spoiler warning on there and put something more ambiguous or something. many browncoats have not seen the movie yet, because of where they live or whatever and they don't even have to click on this thread to see the spoilers! they are right out in the title! what the hell!!! sorry about this J6ngo 1977. i wouldn't have wanted to be spoiled either

im sorry about the rant but please be more careful next time! if you want to know different people's emotions about this subject, ideas on whether or not to wash back, and how to bring wash back, you might want to go to this thread as well: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=13372 it is chalk full of the stuff.

again sorry about ranting at you but really!

keep flyin'
EngineAngel

"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how i soar."
Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the verse! Rest in Peace (and then come back again!)

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:13 PM

SHOOTO


maaaaannnn...sorry for the spoiler...I assumed people that would read this had already seen the flick- my bad-


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Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:19 PM

DIXONELDORADO


I believe that their loss will add extra depth to future Firefly/Serenity stories. I just hope that we don't see anyone else in the crew die in the next Movie/Series. We could go without a major loss for a while, and the crew would start getting a little too thinned.

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:27 PM

J6NGO1977


No worries Shooto. It happens :). Thankyou Angel for your concern, much appreciated :) I guess Wash and Book dieing seals the fate that there wont be anymore TV episodes. :(

My friend has seen Serenity but not Firefly. So he was confused how Simon and River where on Serenity. I give him a rundown of the pilot and I've also bought him the Firefly boxset for christmas. Another Browncoat in the making me thinks :)

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:52 PM

HYDRAGON


Quote:

Originally posted by shooto:
I just can't figure out how Serenity can continue without Wash and Book...how can you kill off MAJOR characters, family members really, and keep the same vibe?

I'm sure this has been brought up...anyone have ideas or point to a thread that already discusses it?

thanks



Quote:

Originally posted by wolfe426:

Book, I could see them killing that character off but Wash? Joss Whedon should be hanged for killing off one of our beloved characters.



Quote:

Originally posted by captaincdc:
Quote:

Originally posted by Spinland:
Kaylee and Simon have a very wrong, doomed relationship to stumble through.




Wrong? Doomed?

I like Kaylee and Simon together at least for now. Opposites attract and all that.



You three obviously need a little insight into the Whedonverse.

First off, Shooto and Wolfe: It's Joss's job to kill off our favorite characters. If he can hurt us, then his show becomes moret han just a show. And you think he should be hanged for making the movie an experience? Andt his isn't the first time he's killed off some of our favorite characters...

Buffy and Angel Death List:

Buffy (x2)
Jenny Calendar
Angel (x2)
Spike (x2)
Doyle
Cordelia
Joyce Summers
Wesley
Fred
Tara
Darla (x3)
Lindsey
Lilah
Anya
etc.

Second, CaptainCDC: Doomed? Of course they're doomed! Every relationship ever to exist in the Whedonverse (except for Willow & Kennedy, which didn't last long enough to count) will always end in badness and terror. Even though I was glad to see Simon and Kaylee together at last, I was also thinking "Oh shit". They might be together for a season, maybe two! But something will happen. In fact, you can consider Wash and Zoe lucky, seeing as death is the least painful of things tah tcould happen to a couple in the Whedonverse.

Also, one last word of Whedonverse wisdom for you: Not everyone who dies in these shows stay dead. Joss is very good at bringing people back from the dead (Hell, they might not have ever been dead, even!). Now Wash, he was staked trhough the heart. he ain't coming back from that, but Book... I suspect he's harder to kill than that.

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:02 PM

SHOOTO


lol...thanks for the insight-

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:11 PM

TRACY


Psst! Shooto!

Check it out:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/reviews.asp?r=363

Scroll down - you'll like what you read in the PS.

Tracy

P.S.: And Joss repeated it to Alan in the final panel at Flanvention 2 weeks ago, making him very happy (and certain I wasn't making it up when I'd told him the same thing the night before at dinner...)

"Can I make a suggestion that doesn't involve violence? Or is this the wrong crowd?" (Wash)

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:39 PM

HYDRAGON


Awesome!

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 5:59 PM

J6NGO1977


Woo Hoo! hes gonna bring Wash back

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Friday, December 23, 2005 12:31 AM

LOSTCOMMA


Yup this is the whedon weakness, Killem, Killem all.
No just kidding it's truly part of his style. Like it or not. I remember thinking about this during the original airing of the tv series and was concerned when and who it was going to happen to, not if. The ironic part was Fox beat'em to it.

I have watched the original and dvd editions many times. This movie is a movie. An enitity to itself almost. Maybe it had to be. Maybe to draw in all those non scifi types to the box office it had to be different. Maybe movies dont function as an extension of series? Nah. Wasnt that way with S.T. movies.
Lots of bang crash killing and action. Disposing of a couple of friendly characters along the way.
It doesnt wash with me. And I hope the book doesnt end here. Glad to know that it was a 2 picture deal.

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Friday, December 23, 2005 1:31 AM

DISKA


the whole reason i love mr whedon is that he can kill off main characters. other tv shows would never dare to do that and it makes it a bit too comfy and safe becasue whats the point of putting characters in weekly peril if at the back of your mind you are constantly thinking "oh its ok, they're main characters theres no way they're gonna die". joss doesnt allows us the satisfaction of feeling that safe and thats why i really respect his writing. one of my favourite aspects of the end of the BDM is that after book and wash, you really believe that at any second any one of em could die, from zoe being sliced by a reaver, inara being jumped on, kaylee getting hit, simon getting shot, and river running out into the pit of reavers, it doesnt let you feel safe for a second and thats amazing.

someone pointed it out earlier that both buffy and angel have survived major character deaths, and as awful as they may have been , its the way in which the characters cope with these deaths that make the shows so interesting. the end of serenity doesnt really allow us to see the full extent of zoe's grief but i can imagine it would be really gripping and interesting to watch. also the way in which books deaths so obviously affected mal is vital to any kind of future storylines.

but all the rumours id heard were that if any more films were to be made they would be prequels to serenity so maybe that wouldnt happen anyway.

"Dear diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

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Friday, December 23, 2005 9:18 AM

SHOOTO


awesome...thanks Tracy-

I never got into Buffy or Angel, so I don't know how Joss does things- Firefly totally got me though and I took to it...so, thanks for the explainations-

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