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New Fan Question

POSTED BY: MILLMAN
UPDATED: Sunday, January 8, 2006 06:39
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Friday, January 6, 2006 10:07 AM

MILLMAN


Hi all, I just fell in love with Firely a few weeks ago. I was told not to watch Serenity until after I saw the whole series, and I'm glad I waited so long because the series was incredible. But I have a few questions about contradictions that maybe some people can clear up.

The first one is that in Serenity, in the opening scene with Simon in the lab, the doctor describes River as a psychic and shows him (or tells him) clearly what they were doing to River. But in the series, Simon is clueless as to what they did to her (hence the Ariel episode) and has no idea she's even a psychic until Objects in Space (the last episode). That left me a little confused.

Also, River's escape puzzled me. In the series she's brought onto Serenity in a box, but in the movie Simon and her escape on a ship. I don't know if anyone can tell me what was supposed to have happened, but I'd like to know.

Thanks.


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Friday, January 6, 2006 10:17 AM

AMITON


Heyas Millman,

Welcome to the party! I think you'll find it comfy in here :)

The formal answer to your questions I suspect is in terms of the ease of understanding for new viewers of the movie. It's easier to say Simon broke River out himself and that she's a psychic right up front rather than try to explain that over the rest of the movie (especially since it's pretty important in the very next sequence!).

For the purposes of 'verse canon and continuity, however, I'm pretty sure the going theory is that Simon knew a lot more than he was letting on during the season (e.g. his hands on involvement in the escape), but decided for safety and convenience not to share those details with the imposing new crew he met. That much for the psychic and his involvement in her breakout part. In as much as what appears to be Serenity being used in the breakout, I suspect (and actually genuinely believe) that it was another ship and she was then packed in stasis for the trip out and onto Serenity.

Was that a coherent answer?

Amiton.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 10:29 AM

J6NGO1977


I agree with Amiton. Remember Firefly came before Serenity. Simon in Firefly always says he is gifted but River was something else . So Simon knows what RIver is capable of but he is not letting on. In Ariel he wants to know what the Alliance did to River so he can cure her.

As for the ship in the breakout I thought it was Serenity but someone on here told me it was Simons shuttle. Watch it again and yes the ship is alot smaller than Serenity.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 10:30 AM

JAYRO


Quote:

Originally posted by Millman:
The first one is that in Serenity, in the opening scene with Simon in the lab, the doctor describes River as a psychic and shows him (or tells him) clearly what they were doing to River. But in the series, Simon is clueless as to what they did to her (hence the Ariel episode) and has no idea she's even a psychic until Objects in Space (the last episode). That left me a little confused.



I think it's pretty clear that Simon knows about his sister's telepathic nature.

In 'Safe', for example, Simon witnesses River's reading of the little mute girl's mind, and attempts (unsuccessfully) to explain it off as something else.

It's reasonable to assume that he did not dare to tell the crew of Serenity about River's nature, for fear of provoking exactly the kind of reaction we see in Objects In Space. (Note that the term "witch" is used once again here, albeit in a less puritanical manner.)


"Yes, Jayne. She's a witch. She has had Congress with the beast."
"She's in Congress?"

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Friday, January 6, 2006 10:31 AM

SHAMBLEAU


I agree with Amiton.

As far as the contradiction with Ariel, I actually don't think there is any. Simon's a trauma surgeon, not a neurologist. Furthermore, he was posing as an Alliance high muckety-muck, not a doctor. So, he could hardly ask detailed medical questions anyway. And we didn't see any detailed explanations given.

Yes, he knew more about the reason the Alliance was experimenting on River than he let on in the series, and he knew they'd done some neural stripping. But he didn't know specifics, so he didn't know how to treat her. In Ariel, he convinces River to go along by telling her specifically that he'll be able to help her after they check on what was done to her. Even after he's checked her out, his treatments are only partly effective, which reflects his lack of specialized knowledge in that field.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 11:39 AM

IMIN


Okay since I'm new around too, here is something that I noticed.

When they pull up the info on Mal (on the computer when the operative is looking for them) and about him being a browncoat, it says capt. But I seem to remember in the series that he was referred to as a Sgt.

Anyone know about that? I was just wondering about that little mistake.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 11:48 AM

STAKETHELURK


That one’s definitely a production error. In the script and in the deleted scenes he’s referred to explicitly as a sergeant.

If you want a fanwank (an invented, in-continuity explanation), we can speculate that Mal was made a Brevet-Captain in the late stages of the Battle of Serenity, since they’d lost so many officers and he was said to be in charge of 2000 people by the end of it.

EDITED TO ADD: Oh, pardon my rudeness. Welcome to the site! Please, stick around and pepper us with any more questions you’ve got. We’re glad to have you.

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 11:18 AM

MILLMAN


Thanks for all the analysis. I was hoping Joss wouldn't contradict himself so blantantly. I had also forgotten that little bit about River being called a witch in Safe.

One more quick question. Does the operative have any other alias beyond "The Operative"? His character is so cool, was wondering if he had a name. But it would make sense, for the anononymity that he wouldn't have one. If anyone knows it, though, let me know.

PS: Thanks for the warm welcomes. I like this place already.

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 11:26 AM

J6NGO1977


Well he's Captain of Serenity. Remember in the pilot, Badger says to Mal that Mal was a Sgt in the army but now he is a captain of a ship. Not too sure of the wording. So the Alliance probably have the most up to date information on Mal and as a result he's listed as a Captain.

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 6:39 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Millman:
One more quick question. Does the operative have any other alias beyond "The Operative"? His character is so cool, was wondering if he had a name. But it would make sense, for the anononymity that he wouldn't have one. If anyone knows it, though, let me know.

In the opening sequence, when checking the Operative's authorization, a confused Dr. Mathias says, "I see no name or rank..."

The Operative answers, "I have neither."

So we must assume that he left behind his "birth identity" when he became an operative. It's all part of his fanatical devotion to the Alliance.

And, by the way, welcome.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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