GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Jayne and Mal

POSTED BY: BLADEACHILLES
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:38
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Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:01 PM

BLADEACHILLES


I love the character Jayne, and I really feel that there's a lot more to him then a stereotyped thug. I'm new to the 'Verse, so I don't know if this question has been discussed elsewhere, but here goes.

Why is Jayne still on Serenity? From what we saw in Out of Gas, Jayne does not seem like the kinda guy that Mal would want to keep on his beloved Serenity, and around people like Kaylee. Any thoughts out there on why Mal didn't just pay Jayne and send him on his merry way, seeing as he was so willing to switch sides for some money, free graze of the kitchen, and his own bunk?

"Man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything."

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Sunday, January 29, 2006 9:25 PM

DRAGONFEAR987


while mal and zoe both have combat experience and are seasoned fighters, never hurts to have another strong arm on board the help out. as for why mal never booted him, he considers him part of his crew i guess. hes got a soft spot for him, much as he can be a pain in the rear. and on top of that, hes comic relief i mean cmon....who doesnt love classic jayne scenes like the one with vera and the hat from his mom? and theres god only knows how many great jayne quotes. "we applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient" do i really need to say nething else?

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Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:38 PM

J6NGO1977


I agree he's extra muscle. Mal knows Jayne has a mutinous streak however Mal knows how to keep that under control. It's obvious Jayne comes from a background where nobody cared about him and he cared about nobody. So Jayne gets that sense of family from the rest of the crew and he is also treated pretty well.

Remember at the end of Ariel when Mal was going to space Jayne? What stopped Mal from opening that airlock door was when Jayne asked Mal to make something up to the rest of the crew and not to tell them the truth about Jayne betraying Simon and River to the Feds for a lump of cash.

To Mal that showed Jayne, for all his flaws, cares what the crew think of him and so therefore cares about them in turn. Also after Ariel Jayne has more than likely learnt his lesson and knows Mal will 'get rid' of Jayne if he betrays Mal or his crew again.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 12:05 AM

SHINYTALENT


I think there is more to Jayne then just comic-relief or muscle or him being sexy beyond words.
You can't really say that one person's place on the show is more or less important than another person's place.

Jayne belongs on Serenity- just like they all do I think that Jayne's reason is that aside from being a damn good merc and tracker he needs a family.
He may not seem the type for warm and fuzzies but the crew, even Simon and River are family and he feels at home.

I think that Mal didn't kick Jayne off Serenity for the same reason he hasn't turned Simon and River into the Feds, he needs his crew around him not just to keep the ship running but to keep him fighting on.

But they are just my ideas folks. Joss may have different reasons.

The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 12:06 AM

PURPLEBELLY


It's so hard to quit your main squeeze

Which is my way of saying that tenacity, sometimes bloody-mindless and self-destructive, is the hallmark of Reynolds' character -- very Irish, very Whedon.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 3:45 AM

MAL4PREZ


My take on it is that Jayne's really just a big ole dog. (I mean that lovingly!) It's instinct for him to try to be the top dog, even though he knows it's not really his thing. So, Mal beat him out and Jayne accepts that. Like most dogs, he's quite happy to be part of the pack.

Of course, Mal's had to rough him up a few times to teach him how to play nice, but Jayne respects that. He knows that Mal's the better dog.

And I think Mal gets this about Jayne. Jayne may play rough sometimes, but he's a good boy as long as he knows who's in charge.

that's just my .02.



Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Monday, January 30, 2006 4:02 AM

ILLUMINIX


Very well put! I think you nailed it.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 5:44 AM

KIZYR


Jayne really redeemed himself in the movie for me. Until then, I still couldn't forgive him for what he did on Ariel.

A lot of it was those little things you don't notice so much. One thing you gotta remember is that, for all his brashness, Jayne really does care about Kaylee. Not in any romantic way, but in a big-brother sort of way. He might make mean jokes about her, but if someone laid an unkind hand on her, he'd send them to their grave. Then, he was likely just as upset about what happened to Book. He and the Shepherd were best friends while on that boat; he even saved a boxload of Cuban cigars to bring to Book when they landed on Haven (Cubans are Book's favorite, and that's what he was smoking while speaking with Mal).

More of those little things... You remember when Serenity was spinning out of control? Jayne ran and made sure everyone was fastened in tight--and there wasn't a seat left for him. But, he tugged at their belts and made sure they were safe, then grabbed onto something else for himself.

So yeah, Jayne might be greedy, but he's not selfish. At least, not when it comes to family; and the crew of the Serenity's the closest thing to family he's ever really known. KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Monday, January 30, 2006 8:15 AM

BLADEACHILLES


Thank you all for weighing in! Like I said before, I'm a newbie and I am interested in the rest of the 'Verse's reaction to this question.

I find it very interesting that in the airlock scene in Ariel, Mal stressed the fact that Jayne had turned in crew when he turned in the Tams. Obviously this crew meant a lot to Jayne. (remember he was willing to turn on his 'crew' in Out of Gas and on Stitch from Jaynestown.) Another point of interest was the fact that Mal tried to get Jayne to switch sides in the first place. He's never done that before that we've seen.

Anyway, thanks for responding to my post, y'all.



"Dear Diary: Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Dear Diary: Today we were kidnapped by hillfolk, never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

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Monday, January 30, 2006 8:25 AM

GRIZWALD


I think we can see Jayne learning and growing throughout the series and now the BDM. Yes, he's selfish. Yes, a better offer would probably make him leave the crew. But what about in War Stories when he kicked in ransom money to bail out Wash and Mal, and then when that failed, went in at risk of his own life to save Mal's?

My impression of Jayne is that he honestly isn't all that intelligent, and he has had to depend on his muscle for everything he's got so far. He knows he's no good on his own. He doesn't honestly see himself heading a gang of his own, though he does occasionally resent Mal's way of doing things. He knows he's good as backup, and when he takes the time to think things through, he realizes that that's where he does best: Backing up the rest of the crew of Serenity.

He also blurts. Whatever he thinks comes right out of his mouth. I can relate. I'm the same way. It's not always convenient, but at least everybody knows where we stand. :)

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Monday, January 30, 2006 9:23 AM

MCALLEN


The 2nd time I watched "Ariel" it really struck me how Jayne's actions in turning River and Simon in were a bit more justified (or at least understandable) than I had originally thought. Right before he turns them in, River slashes Jayne with a knife, and then Jayne subsequently gives the speech to Mal abaout how Mal or Kaylee or whomever could be next.

Not saying Jayne wasn't interested in the payoff for turning them in, but I think you could make the argument that he thought (perhaps even if only subconsciously) that what he was doing was really the best and safest thing for the rest of the crew. It's at least further justification for the position that Jayne is impulsive and greedy, but not truly a "bad" guy and not without feelings of protection and loyalty toward his crew family.

MAL: We're still flying.
SIMON: That's not much.
MAL: It's enough.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 10:35 AM

KIZYR


Yeah, you notice that the only time Jayne's really angry or hostile towards the Tams is when he feels they pose an actual threat to the rest of the crew -- the rest of his family, so to speak. Jayne, a lot like Mal, puts the crew's life at the highest priority... Looking back on how he was during both Ariel and the Serenity movie, it seems that the only time he ever would've seriously turned them in would be when they posed a threat; the reward is a nice little side benefit.

Though, since Jayne doesn't always think through, sometimes he can't weigh the threat versus the potential benefit. A flaw, yes, but I don't think it makes him evil for it. Chaotic neutral, perhaps. KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Monday, January 30, 2006 11:50 AM

MTNSCOTT


I was watching Serenity, the pilot, last night, and I caught something for the first time. The Fed offer Jayne Enough money too "buy His own Ship" if turns on Mal. As we know he does not do this. When Mal asks him why he did not, Jayne Responds, The "Money wasnt good enuff". His own Ship is deffinately more money than ten percent of nuthin'. Jayne knows where he belongs and likes it that way.

Only the half mad are wholly alive!
E.A.

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Monday, January 30, 2006 12:10 PM

MER


He HAS to be on Serenity. The crew is a family and apparently Jayne never had anybody but his own take a care to him.

Also, we need a Cordelia (from Buffy) on board to say things that others are too afraid of saying or doing what others are afraid of doing. I'm sure he as his specific reasons on doing bad things...I say it's all for his family back home. Times are tough and he seems the type to help mom out (aww)

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Monday, January 30, 2006 5:22 PM

GUTTERBALL


I think that, no matter what Jayne does, no matter what dickens he kicks up, Mal keeps him on board for one reason only:

Jayne really CAN shoot a man in the neck from 500 yards with a bent scope. There are so many scenes in the episodes where his sharp-shooting comes so in handy.

Serenity (pilot): He caps TwoFry right through the hat, just as Mal comments on it (pointing him out as the best shot to the listening Jayne).

Our Mrs. Reynolds: He uses Vera to shoot out one of the transformers (?) on the net from how far away? Through space, anyway, and those contact points were relatively small. He then puts three neatly lined-up shots through the tiny window where the bad guys are standing.

Heart of Gold: He takes out that gunner on the back of Ranz's hovercraft before Mal can even ask him if he can do it. Easy-peasy.

And those are just the ones off the top of my head. Sure, he's a lot more loyal to his crew than he lets on, but let's be realistic. He has a very definite purpose on the ship -- muscle and killer aim.

He's much more than the sum of his weaponry, of course, but still. I'd put up with a lot of line-walking for someone who could thread a needle with a .20-cal.

________________________________________

Please remember that the 9:30 show is completely different from the 7:30 show. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2006 1:12 AM

AERIN


I completely agree with Kizyr. Jayne protects those he considers his crew, just like Mal. I suspect Mal hired Jayne only to avoid getting shot, kept him at first because he's a damn good shot, and ultimately keeps Jayne on Serenity because he's family now.

My theory is that Jayne had a very tight-knit, poor family. I think he's the only one who left and he did so to earn them money. Being alone in the world, Jayne didn't trust anyone and couldn't be trusted by anyone, until he found family again on Serenity.

On a side note, I just noticed Jayne put on a dress shirt over his t-shirt when they went to the whorehouse in Heart of Gold. He dressed up for them! I love Jayne.

Jayne: I once hit a guy in the neck from 500 yards with a bent scope. Don't that count upstairs?
Book: Oh, it'll be taken into consideration.
Jayne: You made that sound kind of ominous.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2006 6:08 AM

NOSADSEVEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Aerin:
[...]
I suspect Mal hired Jayne only to avoid getting shot, kept him at first because he's a damn good shot, and ultimately keeps Jayne on Serenity because he's family now.

My theory is that Jayne had a very tight-knit, poor family. I think he's the only one who left and he did so to earn them money. Being alone in the world, Jayne didn't trust anyone and couldn't be trusted by anyone, until he found family again on Serenity.

On a side note, I just noticed Jayne put on a dress shirt over his t-shirt when they went to the whorehouse in Heart of Gold. He dressed up for them! I love Jayne.


I quite agree with you, except for the very first part. It seemed that Mal and Zoe were already pretty impressed with the skill of whomever tracked them, so when Jayne boasts, "Found you easy enough," they know who their man is and start the negotiations. Certainly they did it to avoid getting shot and robbed themselves, but I think they were already looking for someone with such skills.

I also think Jayne is from a tight-knit family - tight enough that they don't trust or care about outsiders much - and being on Serenity provides him with a familiar role within. On Serenity he is not just a merc, but also a protector - of Kaylee, especially - a role that he probably also enjoyed growing up with siblings.

And I've always just adored that he dresses up for the whores.


But yeah, Mal knows how to keep Jayne in line, and Jayne has repeatedly proven himself a valuble asset. Mal has also decided that whatever threat Jayne represents, it can be handled - as it was in TTJ, OoG, and Ariel.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:38 AM

HUTCH


I have to agree with the idea that Jayne grew up in rough surroundings. This comes across in the harsh/rude comments to the rest of the crew such as the comment towards Kaylee in Serenity the pilot, when she is flurting with Simon, "Kaylee wishes he was a Gynaecologist". This was a genuine attempt to make fun of the situation not to be vulgar. I feel he didn't really see it was wrong until challenged by Mal.

Jayne does respect Mal and looks towards him for leadership


(first post, please be gentle)

"Lets moon them!!!"

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