GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Underrated episodes

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 8, 2006 13:28
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VIEWED: 2849
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Sunday, February 5, 2006 4:37 AM

EST120


So, there seems to be a lot of agreement about what the best episodes are for the three shows most discussed here (Firefly, Angel and Buffy). My question is what episode do YOU like that never gets any air time here? Try and convince someone else that one of your favorites is worth lots of discussion!


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Sunday, February 5, 2006 5:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm not learned enough in the Buffy 'verse to make a claim. Firefly? With only 14 episodes, hard to come up w/ one which isn't given its due. Even the weakest eps, imo, have some of the strongest, most powerful scenes. 2 examples - Safe " light it" and " What's that make us ? - Big Damn Heros, sir! ..Ain't we just! " and Heart of Gold Inara in her room, crying her pretty little eyes out, after meeting Mal exiting Nandie's room. Wow!

Which leaves me w/ Angel. Hard to find an underrated ep here either. There's vast agreement on which eps were really good. Others, while not on everyone's " All Time " list, still are seen as very good. I could go several ways on this, but I'll settle w/ You're Welcome! . It was a fine tribute to Cordelia, the way I think most ( if not all ) would like to remember her, pre - Conner nonsense.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, February 5, 2006 9:13 AM

TEALCANDTRIP


Seems the only one that doesn't get regular contemplation is Bushwhacked... which is probably my least favorite episode.

Except for when Wash is telling the Alliance guy about Zoe.

Other than that, there's not that much there...

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Sunday, February 5, 2006 10:05 AM

FLETCH2


I like Bushwacked. It's kinda Alienesque or perhaps "slasher movie in space." It also allows some of the rest of the series to move long without problems. After Bushwacked the Alliance knows without doubt that those fugative siblings are not on board a Firefly called Serenity because they fully searched that one, makes it easier to explain why the crew had no further "trouble with the Man" afterwards.

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Sunday, February 5, 2006 11:36 AM

SAINTANDEOL


plus, Bushwacked has one of my favorite little Inara moments; when she corrects the Alliance officer about the ship's name. "It's just Serenity" instead of The Serenity.


Clouds appear
and bring to men a chance to rest
from looking at the moon.
-Matsuo Basho

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 5:27 PM

KIZYR


Well, "The Message" is most definitely my favorite episode (right up there with "Out of Gas"). But folks seem to rip on it real often, mostly 'cause the overzealous Fed screws up due to his own hubris.

I loved "The Message" simply because it showed so much of what the war did to the ordinary folks who fought it. I still get choked up whenever I hear those last lines, and the high-pitched violin cues in during the funeral... KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 6:18 PM

GUTTERBALL


Speaking of Bushwhacked, it actually does have several of my favorite moments. If nothing else, we get an excellent idea of the crew dynamics -- how they see each other and how they fit (or don't fit) -- in their interviews with the Fed.

Fed: Why don't you want to talk about your husband?
Zoe: Don't see that it's any of your business.
Fed: What about the captain? Didn't you fight with him in the war?
Zoe: Fought with a lot of people in the war.
Fed: And what about your husband?
Zoe: Fight with him sometimes, too.

Or Jayne, just sitting there staring and not saying a word. Or Kaylee and how freaked out she gets about the Fed calling Serenity a junker. Hell, she launches into a tirade on how their fancy Alliance vessel is the real junker.

If anyone had any doubts as to her absolute, head-over-heals love of her baby, they were neatly dispelled there.

Or Inara, and that very subtle, "It's just Serenity" and her spiel about the "mutually beneficial business arrangement". It's more like she's explaining it to herself than to the Fed. Reminding herself, you could say.

And then there's the captain's reaction to the Fed's "That's quite a loyal crew you have" comment. Priceless.

Yeah, I'd grant that episode the "underrated" award. It's a quietly excellent episode.

Plus, there's always Zoe's classic, "Jayne, you'll frighten the women" snark. Heh. Shut him RIGHT up.

________________________________________

Please remember that the 9:30 show is completely different from the 7:30 show. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 6:31 PM

CWNEK


Not my favorite episode to be sure, but I feel like THE TRAIN JOB gets a bum rap here and elsewhere. It was a much better first episode than it's given credit for being. It's too bad that they pulled the plug on SERENITY, but Whedon and Minear did a good job of working around this setback, especially given the short notice that they were given. It was my first episode, and it got me hooked.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:45 PM

SQUID


Well, looking at the episode guide here and the rating it has I think "Out of Gas" is immensly underated. Of all the episodes, this was the strongest. It dealt with three different time frames but handled it perfectly utilizing great editing, music, dialogue, and creative transitions while still maintaining interest and building curiosity, emotion, and suspense. Every other second you are lead to believe one thing is going to occur but the story or charchter turns around and surprises you. "Genius mechanic." Kaylee? Nope. A shirtless guy with tattoos. Wash leaving/being unruley when Mal tells them to prep the shuttles, after his argument with the Captain? No. He's going to go get that red button ready for Mal. Lots of small subtle moments that made this episode unique and strong.

The character development and interactions alone were some of the best seen in this series. And though I liked the scenes that went back to the very beginning where everyone met, the best stuff was in the 24 hour flashbacks where the crew is all together after the explosion. Seeing how the Captn deals with each character, how he deals with the many problems that arise... OMG yes... I get upset when I think of this episode's rating being so low. I think people had problems with believability with the scenes with the other salvage crew - an argue I could go on about but will end here and save for later.

But I mean ALL the episodes have great moments. Even my least favorite episodes have at LEAST one scene or quote or character moment that can still just completly floor me.

-------
Lesley: Question for everyone - What was your favourite episode of the series and why?
Joss: Lesley, obviously I adore Objects In Space... But with a cold eye, I have to say that I think the best was Out Of Gas."
------

At least someone agrees with me :) hahaha.. I dunno.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:52 PM

JDUBASHI


I loved "The hero of Canton, the Man they call Jayne" . (I name eps by quotes not their real names)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:34 PM

ARCADIA


I would definately agree that "The Train Job" and "Bushwacked" are the most underrated episodes of Firefly. I can see why. They are weaker than the others, but they definately have their moments.

Afterall, who can forget the end of the train job when Mal kicked that goon into the engine? Or Inara coming in and rescuing Mal and Zoe when they were detained? Or Simon drugging Jayne? Expositiony as it was in places, it was a fiar episode (in fact, if it were not for the fact that they were trying to cram exposition in it where it did not belong, it would have been a damn fine episode). Also, it is just amazing that it was written over a weekend. It's an amazing feat.

"Bushwacked", in light of the BMD, is mucho importante. It's the only episode besides the pilot when we really learn anything about the Reavers. If this episode had not aired, I have serious doubts that the movie would have been possible (well, it would have been different, I think, at least). Plus, the interogation is awesome (Wash was the best). River gets to be River (I was so happy for her when she was star gazing). And, down as it is, I feel we get real insight into Mal the moment when he allows Book and Inara to do a service for the dead, then immediately tells Kaylee that he just let them do it to get them out of his hair while the salvage things from the ship. It just highlights how broken he is. Oh, and Jayne tricking Simon about the suit, priceless.

Wow, I feel lots of affection towards Bushwacked now.

"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:56 PM

GOODNIGHTKISS


My absolute fav is "War Stories" but it never seems to be the one other people automatically think of... perhaps it's because it was the first ep I saw the whole way through... or perhaps it's because Wash is my fav character... I'm not sure, but that episode is so emotionally diverse and interesting, and it is just a joy to watch! It makes me sad when my friends and I plan marathons with a limited number of eps, and they leave it off the list! :(

_________________________________________________

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 12:10 AM

NUCLEARDAY


hmm... I have to say I'll always a special place in me for the Bushwhacked episode. (Though from the other responses, maybe it's not all that under-rated.) That was the first episode I caught back when the series was still flying. While there was some stuff I'd later found I had all wrong (somehow heard Zoe's interrogation wrong and thought that she was married to both Mal AND Wash for the longest time...), still not a bad introduction to the 'verse. The interrogation scenes I'd always remembered, and it was me having kept those scenes in memeory that made me go and rent the movie. (Loved all the characters' parts in that, but Jayne's always stuck with me.)

Really, when I try to single them out, and think of what episodes are the weakest, I just keep coming up with what makes each one special. The ones I watch less often are Our Mrs. Reynolds, and Trash, but those are ruttin' hilarious every time I do. Loved watching Trash the first time. Mal's nekkid, and he has that line about "Yeah, that went well..." And it's not until the end of the ep that I realized he wasn't being sarcastic :P

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 2:52 AM

ASARIAN


Bushwhacked, while underrated perhaps, stars River, gazing at the stars, marveling at the wonder of it all, like a child. A girl that cannot not feel, feels it all. And what she sees is beauty. How awesome is that! With what she's gone through, you'd expect her outlook on the Verse to be a tad grim. Instead, she beams, from ear to ear, truly lost in the Majesty of it all.

What powerful message! That's the signal you cannot stop. And when it reaches you, it touches you. And suddenly you want to hold! Simply that, to hold the line! And you don't even know what line exactly. But you know you want to hold it. For her. For ever.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 4:10 AM

ELOISA


The definition of 'underrated' looks to be in doubt here. For instance, the mention of Out of Gas looks to be completely undeserved, as it's the one that's most frequently quoted as being the best episode (including in a recent thread on this site). If it gets consistently excellent reviews it can't be underrated.

War Stories was very controversial - it's a love-hate thing, I think. It's my favourite episode - I think OOG is the best - and with the number of people who concur I think it's hard to argue that it's actually underrated. The only arguments for it being so are that the people who hate it often do so for reasons that are unfounded, namely that torture and lesbianism don't advance the plot, whereas actually they do (if you include Inara's deleted scene asking her client for armed help to break Mal out).

I concur with several other people that my favourite genuinely underrated episodes are Bushwhacked and Safe. It's interesting to note that the BDM and, to a lesser extent, the pilot episode, were as dark as Joss Whedon originally wanted the series to be, and both these episodes are in a similar vein - more brooding and serious.

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 5:44 AM

OLDFOGEY


I'm not aware of there being any underrated episodes.
OoG is my favorite cuz of all the reasons already
said better by other people.
War Stories is my favorite too In Spite Of the
godawful torture scenes.
All the other episodes are my favorites too.
They all get 10's by me. How's that underrated
I wonder.




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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 5:45 AM

OLDFOGEY


Oh, oops. Were we supposed to be talkin about
other shows besides Firefly?

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 5:49 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Eloisa:

I concur with several other people that my favourite genuinely underrated episodes are Bushwhacked and Safe.




You wrote a good post, but you lost me at "Safe." As a hopelessly smitten River Tam addict, I am willing to bet vital parts of my anatomy, even though I've only been here for two weeks, that "Safe" ranks very high among people like me. River's dancing, Simon's "Light it!", and, of course, River's "You found me broken" speech, plus what Simon said in my tagline, make it one the most moving River episodes. And since FireFly is a show about River...


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:03 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION


I don't think Heart of Gold gets much credit. Some of our more macho members have consider anything that focuses on Inara (or companions) too much to be boring.

I (naturally) disagree and thought the scenes between Nandy & Mal to be awesome. Great chemistry. Jayne's scenes with the blonde cracked me up. I also like the ending (that is always the best way to deal with a ego maniacal bastard).

Best line? "Lady, I must say, you're my kind of stupid."

Heart of Gold and Shindig are my 2 favorite episodes.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:18 AM

EST120


Quote:

Originally posted by oldfogey:
Oh, oops. Were we supposed to be talkin about
other shows besides Firefly?



Actually, that is what I was hoping for when I posted this thread. I was hoping people would talk about all three shows, not just Firefly because there are so few episodes of Firefly, I think all of them have had multiple threads for each!

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:20 AM

ELOISA


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
You wrote a good post, but you lost me at "Safe." As a hopelessly smitten River Tam addict, I am willing to bet vital parts of my anatomy, even though I've only been here for two weeks, that "Safe" ranks very high among people like me. River's dancing, Simon's "Light it!", and, of course, River's "You found me broken" speech, plus what Simon said in my tagline, make it one the most moving River episodes. And since FireFly is a show about River...



That doesn't stop people underrating it - especially the fans of humour episodes (Jaynestown, OMR) or more actiony stuff (the pilot, OIS, WS). I'm well aware that Safe has a core of die-hard fans, but it's smaller than that for most of the other episodes, and, as per the above post, I refer to that as being underrated - a statistical thing, if you will.

Oh, yes - and I don't watch Buffy or Angel!

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:33 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Eloisa:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

You wrote a good post, but you lost me at "Safe." As a hopelessly smitten River Tam addict, I am willing to bet vital parts of my anatomy, even though I've only been here for two weeks, that "Safe" ranks very high among people like me. River's dancing, Simon's "Light it!", and, of course, River's "You found me broken" speech, plus what Simon said in my tagline, make it one the most moving River episodes. And since FireFly is a show about River...



That doesn't stop people underrating it - especially the fans of humour episodes (Jaynestown, OMR) or more actiony stuff (the pilot, OIS, WS). I'm well aware that Safe has a core of die-hard fans, but it's smaller than that for most of the other episodes, and, as per the above post, I refer to that as being underrated - a statistical thing, if you will.

Oh, yes - and I don't watch Buffy or Angel!




Well, I wasn't exactly following a solid number, just my heart. :) So, I'll take your statistic for a fact (however much it pains me to hear).

And I know nothing about Buffy and Angel, either. And I'm quite happy with that arrangement. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:35 AM

DONCOAT


You'd probably get more responses about Buffy and Angel eps if you started a thread like this over in the Buffyverse forum.

As others have said, I don't have comments about those shows. As for Firefly, my personal underrated ep would have to be The Message, since I didn't find it that compelling on first viewing. However, it is pretty popular among other FFF members, and I do like a number of scenes in it -- the whole spaceport sequence in particular. So "underrated" doesn't really fit.

The negatives for me are the "idiot plot" -- one brief sentence from Mal or Book would have avoided the whole hostage/shootout situation -- and the inconsistency in Wash's character (not exactly the icy cool flyboy in this ep!)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 10:46 AM

MILFORD


My underrated fave is probably Train Job. I know that since it was a "redone" version of the pilot, sort of, that some people look down on it. I suppose I just like the idea of them robbing a train. It also has some great lines and scenes, like then Inara chastises Mal and Zoe for "escaping." And who can forget Mal kicking the guy into the engine. That was the best. I love it.

I would have to say that Out of Gas is probably a complete misfit here. I know few FFer's that wouldn't rate that in their top 3.

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 12:18 PM

NIKNAK


Out of Gas used to have the highest score in the fireflyfans.net review section. The only reason that it isn't anymore is two mysterious reviews with a rating of 0 that brought the average down. It's too easy for a couple of outliers to skew a simple mean.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 12:36 PM

COOKIEJAR


I don't really have a favorite or least favorite. I love them all. To varying degrees of course but still. I agree that Heart of Gold is underrated though. Lots of great lines and really seeing Inara's mask fall a bit were great too. Plus Jayne's line.

"They're whores."
"I'm in."

Ahh good times

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 12:53 PM

J6NGO1977


I agree The Train Job gets a rough deal. The thing about The Train Job is that it encompasses everything about Firefly. The Western/Sci-FI crossover is obvious right from the bar room brawl at the start. It has some very funny dialogue all the way through from Jayne and the banter between Mal and Zoe. There is plenty of action, 'Time for some thrilling heroics'. Of course you then have the bad guy in the form of Niska.

Overall a very well rounded episode which I think is overlooked. It's my 2nd fave episode next to 'OoG'. The Train Job was the episode that got me hooked on Firefly because it was the first episode I watched.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 1:28 PM

THENCDUCK


Firefly: "Train Job"-a lot of action, good dialogue, and good story.

Angel: "Apocalypse, Nowish"-sweet fighting scenes and the start of a awesome plot story to me.

Buffy: "Dirty Girls"-Kaleb, Nathan Fillon's character, was awesome kicked everybodys ass and his dialouge was sweet.

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