GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

I figured out why I love River

POSTED BY: FREELANCEPILOT
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 04:10
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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:00 PM

FREELANCEPILOT


In my constant searching for the workings of my mind (can you tell i like psychology?) I was trying to think of why River is my favorite character in the show/movie. Why is it that I love her so much.
I mean, Wash is hilarious... which is usually what i go for. He is my avatar.
Mal is a hard ass.
Shepards a preacher (i like positive portrayals of christians in the media. It helps our image, especially because we have such idiots in the faith.)
Jayne is Funny and a badass.
So is Zoe.
Hell, Simon is noble and speaks well.
Inara is gourgeous and graceful.
And kaylee is just a sweetheart.

But it is all about river for me.
And now I know why.
I have what is known as a Savior complex. I usually date women who have something wrong with them. Drugs, mental issues (serious ones not the normal ones), or rebellious women are the ones i am attracted to. Being a conservative Catholic guy who doesn't do anything out of line makes this weird. But i think it is because i want to 'save' these people. Not that i think that they need 'saving' or anything. I just want to be a hero. and River needs saving, in a sense. Simon is that for her.
I thought it was interesting.
Thoughts?
Any wannabe BDH in the romantic sense lurking around?

Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoë: You live on a spaceship, dear.
Wash: So?

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:13 PM

ETHAN


Wanting to save every girl I date always gets me in trouble. And yes, I love the River character too.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:31 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


You been listening to Loveline recently or something? Or is this something from one of your psychology classes?

"I love crazy women who can kick my ass", we got a little bit too much in common, my friend. Y'know, cept for the fact that you seem to have genuine prospects in life, while I live in a car.

"Deep in the battlefield covered in blood
Lies an Airborne Ranger dying in the mud
He fought for his country and he died like a man
Though some people back home just wouldn't understand"

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:28 PM

STDOUBT


I wouldn't read much into it FreelancePilot.
I believe men are naturally protective of women. It
has it's basis in 1000's of years of biology.

It's interesting that you'd like to 'save' a woman
who can kick your ass. Hmmm. Sounds to me like the
attraction may really lie in the idea that if she
can handle herself, maybe you won't have to do too
much work...Hummmmm?

No, OK, I think I figured it out. It would be a
validation for you if someone as powerful as River were to ever turn to you
for protection/salvation!
Just keep it simple bud -love her for the reason I do... she's HHhhaaaawwwwtt!
HTH

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 2:58 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


I think you've really just hit upon one of the strengths of the character. Nathan Fillion says as much in the DVD commentary on the episode Serenity.

Summer plays a character where you just want to gather her up in your arms and comfort her. Every fiber of your being is begging you to help her.

People bring up the fact she can kick your ass, but that doesn't matter, from the first time you see her on screen you want to help this girl, from back in the episode when she shied from the sight of a gun if you were lucky enough to see the first episode first, from when she jumped of an Infirmary table if, like me, you caught it on Fox.

-

Why I love River most is a different reason all together. I understand her, in fact I see myself in her. (Does that make me a narcissist?)

I will never have her genius, nor her trauma (I hope), but I know somehow that that person, in spite of being a girl (I'm male) and having abilities I will never even understand and pain I'm glad I can't comprehend, is me. She is fragmented, she is fractured and for some reason that makes me love her.

I always found it interesting that any serious online quiz (the non-serious ones too) said I was River if they said who you are, and said she was my perfect girl if they said who you should date. (Again, does that make me a narcissist?)

She’s someone who I can understand and she’s got the one thing perfection lacks, flaws. I’m drawn to that.

I totally failed to explain myself, but I think the first part of the post came out ok.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 3:16 AM

GIXXER


Been saving whales for a while now. OK, just the one, to be honest...

It's a small basement and it's getting a bit smelly. Probably should have gone for Beagles.


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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 3:49 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by christhecynic:

I think you've really just hit upon one of the strengths of the character. Nathan Fillion says as much in the DVD commentary on the episode Serenity.

Summer plays a character where you just want to gather her up in your arms and comfort her. Every fiber of your being is begging you to help her.

People bring up the fact she can kick your ass, but that doesn't matter, from the first time you see her on screen you want to help this girl, from back in the episode when she shied from the sight of a gun if you were lucky enough to see the first episode first, from when she jumped of an Infirmary table if, like me, you caught it on Fox.

-

Why I love River most is a different reason all together. I understand her, in fact I see myself in her. (Does that make me a narcissist?)

I will never have her genius, nor her trauma (I hope), but I know somehow that that person, in spite of being a girl (I'm male) and having abilities I will never even understand and pain I'm glad I can't comprehend, is me. She is fragmented, she is fractured and for some reason that makes me love her.

I always found it interesting that any serious online quiz (the non-serious ones too) said I was River if they said who you are, and said she was my perfect girl if they said who you should date. (Again, does that make me a narcissist?)

She’s someone who I can understand and she’s got the one thing perfection lacks, flaws. I’m drawn to that.

I totally failed to explain myself, but I think the first part of the post came out ok.



Is it a bad thing that I understood everything you said? Wow! What an incredibly beautiful post you made here! How you said everything I wanted to say, but lacked the talent to express! Thank you from the depth of my heart!

"She's got the one thing perfection lacks, flaws."

You have the soul of a poet. *tears*

"I totally failed to explain myself,"

I could stand to hear a little more. :)

You're also so right about the ass-kicking. When I first saw Serenity (I saw the BDM first), I thought: "Okay, that's quite attractive the way this girl moves." But now, after two weeks of total River Tam adoration, I find myself really most attracted (if I would even want to call it that) to scenes where River is the most vulnerable. See, everybody can do moves; ask Jean-Claude Van Damme. But River... moves you!

Thank you for such a memorable tribute to our beloved River Tam, the one they call "little mouse."

There is a special level of Heaven, reserved for those who don't speak at the opera, and those who love River Tam. And you're in!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:28 AM

SAMEERTIA


Maybe that's WHY I'm just a little afraid of River. I've been in too many really broken relationships to dare to try to fix her. Cradle her, comfort her, yes. Love her with every fiber of my being? No. Too much risk there.

Healing in relationships is great, but the growth must come from both sides. You can't fix someone who isn't ready to heal, no matter how much you want to.

*Oops, sorry. That was my inner Troi coming out. I'll try to control that!*

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:14 AM

URSULA


I'd have said because she can kick a man in the back of the head while he's standing behind her.


But that's just me.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:43 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:

Maybe that's WHY I'm just a little afraid of River. I've been in too many really broken relationships to dare to try to fix her. Cradle her, comfort her, yes. Love her with every fiber of my being? No. Too much risk there.

Healing in relationships is great, but the growth must come from both sides. You can't fix someone who isn't ready to heal, no matter how much you want to.

*Oops, sorry. That was my inner Troi coming out. I'll try to control that!*



I know, Counselor, the light bulb has to want to change. :) And, as far as light bulbs go, River is the brightest of 'em all, ain't she? Erm, I mean, shiniest. :)

Okay, now I will try and be serious for a spell.

River, a real-life one, I would assuredly Love with every fiber of my being. And then some! Is not also every fiber of her being begging for Love? In the end, though, all rationale set aside, I would simply Love her for no greater reason than that I were unable not to.

Risk? What risk? In the history of man, who has ever died of an excess of Love? And, conversely, could I ever even give River enough Love? As for the latter, I would probably try and find out, though. :)

Giving Love, I believe, is per definition not a unilateral thing. I forgot the exact quote, but was it not spoken, that it is one of life's greatest rewards that one cannot give without receiving? (Yes, I've read a poem. Try not to faint). And River gives plenty back! It IS a mutual thing.

And because I could not resist ...

Love, like River, will cut a new path whenever it meets an obstacle.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:47 AM

SMAUG


Quote:

I would simply Love her for no greater reason than that I were unable not to.


This is something that I believe fuels many a fantasy or daydream.. but few people truely understand. For to truly feel it one must be hardwired within as if you are simply born to feel this way. And no words can ever truely make another see... who isn't hardwired as well.

Asarian.. what does your russian tagline mean? Something about laughter and hens????

Smaug..

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 9:00 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Smaug:

Quote:

I would simply Love her for no greater reason than that I were unable not to.


This is something that I believe fuels many a fantasy or daydream.. but few people truely understand. For to truly feel it one must be hardwired within as if you are simply born to feel this way. And no words can ever truely make another see... who isn't hardwired as well.

Asarian.. what does your russian tagline mean? Something about laughter and hens????

Smaug..



About them daydreams you mention, just so we're clear, there would be nothing untoward -- or let's just say "smutty", to use a normal word, lol -- in my Love for River.

In fact, I take it, very few people would actually be able not to respond to such a loud call. It's when a baby cries, in pain, what mother would not attend to that infant? Same thing, I guess. Only stronger. Because River pushes all your Love responder buttons, all at once, all the time. :)

And yes, the Russian is, of course, the "Eta kuram na smekh" safe phrase Simon uses on River, to make her fall asleep. And yes, it means: "That's for chickens to laugh at."


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 12:11 PM

DONCOAT


Asarian, do you speak Russian? Are you fluent enough to know how that phrase ("That's for chickens to laugh at") would be used? Can you give an example?

We've had some discussions/speculation about this topic, but I don't think we ever got a definitive answer. If you can nail it down, you'd be a minor damn hero your own self.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 2:13 PM

KIZYR


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
And yes, the Russian is, of course, the "Eta kuram na s---



Gorrammit, don't say it now!

Oh wait, that only works on River.

Anywho, just speaking from experience... It's generally a very bad idea to base a romantic relationship on a desire to 'save' or 'help' someone else. That's founding the relationship on the basis that you have the capability to change the other person, and when that change doesn't come you end up stuck in a position that brings you down with the girl.

Best way to help someone going through serious issues isn't by becoming romantically involved, but by being friends, like close friends, folks who do for each other and ain't always lookin' for the advantage. KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 2:16 PM

RUXTON


Why do I love River?





It's her legs.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 3:07 PM

BITTERBIERCE


Quote:

Originally posted by FreelancePilot:
In my constant searching for the workings of my mind (can you tell i like psychology?) I was trying to think of why River is my favorite character in the show/movie. Why is it that I love her so much.


Is it that difficult? Really is it? Yes, there are layers and layers of psycho-history that we mus....River's butt! Jesus! Nice butt. And legs, genius. Actually that whole area actually, and, er, above it....

You know, I'm an intellectual and don't consider myself anything like Jayne, but him and I share our intimate attraction for the female sex in that we ask "is she cute?" before we want to...
"go to congress with her", to change a Firefly phrase.

You see, Inara has the grace and dignity in a woman that suggests a singleness of character and a particular way of being that...no, no, it's just her pretty B cup boobies and a face you could just grab and...ahem. Anyway. Yep, that's pretty much why I want to hump her. and River. And Kaylee. Preferably all at once.

Yes, it's all so mysterious. Cue the 50's sci-fi music, it's a wonder we're all attracted. Joss picks four of the best looking women in the Northern Hemisphere and you're wondering why you're attracted? I remember my girlfriend asking "What attracts men to Pamela Anderson? She's so trashy!" Friggin' WHAT? Because it's PAMELA ANDERSON. And she's TRASHY! That's why! "But she's so slutty!" Quit trying to sell her already, I'm sold!

She also has problems with River, come to think about it. "I understand Summer. But River? She's so crazy!" Crazy girls will do ANYthing, sweetie.

And, as the French say when they're caught in bed with someone strange, "there are some things even a mistress won't do". But crazy girls will.

Quit playing like it's a mystery! Me and Jayne'll tell you, it ain't no mystery Freelance. Don't get me wrong, Catholic guilt enhances sex in exquisite ways, but one mystery is not why you want River Tam.


"If you point out that human progress, as I have defined it, involves the practical enslavement of two-thirds of the human race, my answer is that I can't help it. If you point out that a slave always runs the risk of being oppressed by a particularly cruel master, I answer that a master always runs the risk of having his brains knocked out by a particularly enterprising slave" -HL Mencken

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 3:09 PM

BITTERBIERCE


Argh! Only the first paragraph of that was a quote. The rest was me. Sorry. I think this will respond better:


Is it that difficult? Really is it? Yes, there are layers and layers of psycho-history that we mus....River's butt! Jesus! Nice butt. And legs, genius. Actually that whole area actually, and, er, above it....

You know, I'm an intellectual and don't consider myself anything like Jayne, but him and I share our intimate attraction for the female sex in that we ask "is she cute?" before we want to...
"go to congress with her", to change a Firefly phrase.

You see, Inara has the grace and dignity in a woman that suggests a singleness of character and a particular way of being that...no, no, it's just her pretty B cup boobies and a face you could just grab and...ahem. Anyway. Yep, that's pretty much why I want to hump her. and River. And Kaylee. Preferably all at once.

Yes, it's all so mysterious. Cue the 50's sci-fi music, it's a wonder we're all attracted. Joss picks four of the best looking women in the Northern Hemisphere and you're wondering why you're attracted? I remember my girlfriend asking "What attracts men to Pamela Anderson? She's so trashy!" Friggin' WHAT? Because it's PAMELA ANDERSON. And she's TRASHY! That's why! "But she's so slutty!" Quit trying to sell her already, I'm sold!

She also has problems with River, come to think about it. "I understand Summer. But River? She's so crazy!" Crazy girls will do ANYthing, sweetie.

And, as the French say when they're caught in bed with someone strange, "there are some things even a mistress won't do". But crazy girls will.

Quit playing like it's a mystery! Me and Jayne'll tell you, it ain't no mystery Freelance. Don't get me wrong, Catholic guilt enhances sex in exquisite ways, but one mystery is not why you want River Tam.


"If you point out that human progress, as I have defined it, involves the practical enslavement of two-thirds of the human race, my answer is that I can't help it. If you point out that a slave always runs the risk of being oppressed by a particularly cruel master, I answer that a master always runs the risk of having his brains knocked out by a particularly enterprising slave" -HL Mencken

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 3:42 PM

RHYIANAN


Wow, leave it to modern society to equate "love" with "lust."

I too love River as a character...you can't help but want to comfort her and protect her (at least until you see the BDM and realize she can do a good enough job of that herself). She has gone through hell and come back broken, but she still has the strength and will to try to get through that.

There is nothing sexual about that, it's just a psychological urge to soothe someone's pain.

Let's all cheer for the psychotic psychic

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:03 PM

BITTERBIERCE


Well, forgive me but I kind of assumed it couldn't be love seeing as how there is no human being in existance called "River Tam". Psst, she's a fictional character. So, leaving out love, I went where it naturally would go.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:47 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Rhyianan:

Wow, leave it to modern society to equate "love" with "lust."

I too love River as a character...you can't help but want to comfort her and protect her (at least until you see the BDM and realize she can do a good enough job of that herself). She has gone through hell and come back broken, but she still has the strength and will to try to get through that.

There is nothing sexual about that, it's just a psychological urge to soothe someone's pain.

Let's all cheer for the psychotic psychic



Thank you for saying this! I am equally disappointed. :( To be honest, I already had some mixed feelings about entering this thread, as I detected, from the get-go, an irky undercurrent of lust that did not sit quite well with me. I really wish people would not talk about River that way. I don't have a say in it, of course. But it really upsets me. :(

Also, in all my musings about Love and River, sexuality never enters into the equation. And somehow we wind up talking romance here, and, ere long, find ourselves at the special level of Hell again. :( Why do people, so predominantly, equate Love with lust? I wish they would understand. Or, at least, I wish they would understand I do not think of River in that way when I use the word "Love." Sigh.

Now ...

Everybody not talking about sex, in here. Everybody else, elsewhere!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:48 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


I bet River would describe your feelings for her as irrational and foolish. Then she'd kick everyone's ass except for mine, cause' sometimes bitches just gotta be put down.

"Deep in the battlefield covered in blood
Lies an Airborne Ranger dying in the mud
He fought for his country and he died like a man
Though some people back home just wouldn't understand"

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:52 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:

... Then she'd kick everyone's ass except for mine, cause' sometimes bitches just gotta be put down.




I'm trying to think of a way for you to be cruder. :( I just... It's not coming.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:46 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:

Asarian, do you speak Russian? Are you fluent enough to know how that phrase ("That's for chickens to laugh at") would be used? Can you give an example?

We've had some discussions/speculation about this topic, but I don't think we ever got a definitive answer. If you can nail it down, you'd be a minor damn hero your own self.



No, I don't speak Russian. But my brother is married to a Russian woman. I will see them again in two weeks or so. I will ask. Should be an interesting day. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 6:16 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:

Asarian, do you speak Russian? Are you fluent enough to know how that phrase ("That's for chickens to laugh at") would be used? Can you give an example?

We've had some discussions/speculation about this topic, but I don't think we ever got a definitive answer. If you can nail it down, you'd be a minor damn hero your own self.



No, I don't speak Russian. But my brother is married to a Russian woman. I will see them again in two weeks or so. I will ask. Should be an interesting day. :)

Thanks, I'm looking forward to any info you can dig up.

I get the impression it's a sort of snappy comeback, maybe to a bad joke. Or possibly a put-down ("that's so pathetic even chickens would laugh at it").

Another possibility is that it's pure nonsense, like some of those odd English-language T-shirts sold in Japan. Or a quote from something well-known in Russia, like a fairy tale or a proverb. It'll be interesting to find out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 6:32 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:

Asarian, do you speak Russian? Are you fluent enough to know how that phrase ("That's for chickens to laugh at") would be used? Can you give an example?

We've had some discussions/speculation about this topic, but I don't think we ever got a definitive answer. If you can nail it down, you'd be a minor damn hero your own self.



No, I don't speak Russian. But my brother is married to a Russian woman. I will see them again in two weeks or so. I will ask. Should be an interesting day. :)

Thanks, I'm looking forward to any info you can dig up.

I get the impression it's a sort of snappy comeback, maybe to a bad joke. Or possibly a put-down ("that's so pathetic even chickens would laugh at it").

Another possibility is that it's pure nonsense, like some of those odd English-language T-shirts sold in Japan. Or a quote from something well-known in Russia, like a fairy tale or a proverb. It'll be interesting to find out.



Well, the impression I got was, that, in meaning, it's very close to something like: "It's laughable!" In the sense of a thing or situation being too ridiculous, or too beneath you, to even consider.

Tip: for fun, copy & paste the words in my (upper) tag in google, and you'll see it pop up many, many times in Russian text. :) Apparently, the expression is alive and kicking (pun intended).

At any rate, I fired off an email to my brother today; so I expect a more or less conclusive answer in the next few days.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:10 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Well, the impression I got was, that, in meaning, it's very close to something like: "It's laughable!" In the sense of a thing or situation being too ridiculous, or too beneath you, to even consider.

Tip: for fun, copy & paste the words in my (upper) tag in google, and you'll see it pop up many, many times in Russian text. :) Apparently, the expression is alive and kicking (pun intended).

At any rate, I fired off an email to my brother today; so I expect a more or less conclusive answer in the next few days.



Hi,

Just got word from my brother and his Russian wife, about the whole chicken thing.

What we knew was pretty much correct. Although she says it's broader than that. Basically, it's a general expression of ridiculousness. And apart from the occassions I already mentioned, you can use it, for instance, in a discussion, to indicate that something is completely ridiculous. Something like "Too crazy for words!" Or when someone does something really stupid (to be used in a derogatory sense). But also, apparently, to indicate, in a discussion, that you totally disagree.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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