GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

RE:

POSTED BY: HANSWURST
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 1, 2006 10:58
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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:21 AM

HANSWURST


Just how/when did Mr. Universe transfer/record his soul/voice/essense into his robot bride? Did he drag himself over to her or was he placed there by the Alliance soldiers? When did he die? He knows they wrecked his equipment, so he recorded it after they left. Did he transmigrate right to her when stabbed? All theories welcome.

On a more intellectual point, the video of his "wedding" is not only hilarious and ballsy, it also, of course, structurally speaking, foreshadows his death. Breaking of the glass, etc.

And to be completely gloomy and morbid, his robot bride becomes his coffin (all sexual metaphors applicable).

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:26 AM

GRIZWALD


There's a blood trail to his Lovebot's lap that Mal follows, so he dragged himself to die in her arms.

And the breaking of the glass is a traditional thing at Jewish weddings.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:27 AM

GRIZWALD


Oh, and I see you just found us: Welcome. (Takes shiny new Browncoat from FollowMal's storeroom and hands it over.)

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:30 AM

HANSWURST


Yes, the breaking the glass symbolizing both the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem and also the fragility/brevity of life--an applicable idea here.


Quote:

Originally posted by grizwald:
There's a blood trail to his Lovebot's lap that Mal follows, so he dragged himself to die in her arms.

And the breaking of the glass is a traditional thing at Jewish weddings.


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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:42 AM

HANSWURST


Thanks for the welcome, Griz. I'm in NY and I've been eating breathing FF/Serenity the past two weeks, and have the 3rd DVD from the series to see for first time this weekend. Very excited!


Quote:

Originally posted by grizwald:
Oh, and I see you just found us: Welcome. (Takes shiny new Browncoat from FollowMal's storeroom and hands it over.)


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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:47 AM

MAL4PREZ


Welcome Hanswurst! It's fun here, you'll like it.

Enjoy the 3rd DVD, it's my favorite!

Oh, and have some mudder's milk -

*pours a mug*

m4p

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:51 AM

NANOMOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by grizwald:
There's a blood trail to his Lovebot's lap that Mal follows, so he dragged himself to die in her arms.



Yeah, that's what Joss says in the commentary. And he didin't 'transfer' anything - he either recorded his own voice or programmed her to say it, I still haven't quite figured out which.

Yub, yub.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:53 AM

HIXIE129


Yes welcome,

maybe robot girl got up and dragged him back to the couch.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:58 AM

MAL4PREZ


Ha! I just realized that I've been imagining a keyboard imbedded in her thigh - like Mr. U flipped her skirt up, opened a panel, and typed in a little program before he kicked.

It makes perfect sense to me!

m4p

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:00 AM

HIXIE129


Maybe he used his blood (cause is had genetic memory capabilities and inserted some of his blood into one of her orifices)

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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:06 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
Maybe he used his blood (cause is had genetic memory capabilities and inserted some of his blood into one of her orifices)



Eeeewwwwwwww, gross!



Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:10 AM

HIXIE129


Yes, but sort of like the scene in BSG where Boomer inserts a computer network cable into her forearm and transmits a virus to the cylons

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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:19 AM

MAL4PREZ


OK, that works. It's the 'orifice' thing that threw me for a loop.

I think a standard keyboard would be funnier though. And a mouse with a retractable cable that doubles as her kneecap.

I'm silly.

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:52 PM

HANSWURST


Well, actually, he couldn't have typed the message because his voice is woven in with hers as she speaks. And as a sci-fi fan I'm naturally against the mundane idea that he merely recorded his voice. The whole thing suggests to me some kind of odd "transfer" yes, transfer, of his essense, his fading consciousness, in a sci-fi kind of way. The dull answer is he verbally recorded it. It's your world, you decide.


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
OK, that works. It's the 'orifice' thing that threw me for a loop.

I think a standard keyboard would be funnier though. And a mouse with a retractable cable that doubles as her kneecap.

I'm silly.

Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"


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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:02 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION


Ya know...

the first time I saw the movie and Mr. Universe was first introduced, I was all "Who the hell is THIS dork!"

But after a few viewings, he has actually grown on me. Weird, huh?

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:13 PM

MILFORD


Personally I think he had a record mode that he tapped into, but that's not really that interestng, so I like some of your ideas better.

By the way, not to be crude, but do you think they really, well, you know, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more? How does that work with a robot? Why do I care?

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:24 PM

DC4BS


Uh... Erm... WEll, there's already all kinds of mechanical "appliances" out there...

Robot Girl is just takes it a "few" steps further and adds some personality.


------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:24 PM

AGIRLYMAN


ooo I want a sexbot!

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:30 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by milford:
By the way, not to be crude, but do you think they really, well, you know, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more? How does that work with a robot? Why do I care?



In Buffy season 4, there was a BuffyBot. Joss made it abundantly clear the uses Spike made of her (it?), and that it worked in the usual manner.

And we all know why you care.



Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:38 AM

MELAM


Quote:


By the way, not to be crude, but do you think they really, well, you know, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more? How does that work with a robot? Why do I care?




You will find that he actualy calls her his 'lovebot' (very super geek's fantasy) sugesting that she is made specificaly for the purpose you think she is.

Oh and her name is Lenore.

"Lenore wrote her own vows. I cried, like a baby. Like a hungry angry baby."

Which by theway, a friend and I are planing on cosplaying these two to my prom. I already bought the fabric for her dress and everything.

"Putting the Me in Mercinary, Jayne Cobb."

"Joss, what is the future of television? What will we watch? And how will we watch it? Surely you must know, for you are wise, and slender."

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 4:55 AM

DAVEC5


Quote:

Originally posted by Hanswurst:
Yes, the breaking the glass symbolizing both the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem and also the fragility/brevity of life--an applicable idea here.


Quote:

Originally posted by grizwald:
And the breaking of the glass is a traditional thing at Jewish weddings.





ma-zel tov

...and we all shine on...

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:12 AM

THEREALME


Sorry, but I'm pretty sure Mr U just recorded his message into his lovebot, and programmed it to speak when anyone entered.

If Mr U was really in there, then why repeat the message for the Operative?

TheRealMe, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:26 AM

KIZYR


Quote:

Originally posted by milford:
By the way, not to be crude, but do you think they really, well, you know, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more? How does that work with a robot? Why do I care?



Well of course. She is a "Lovebot". They're expensive, custom-made-to-order, hard to obtain (what company would advertise them publicly?), and earn you a black mark in the Companion registry. KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:28 AM

MER


Quote:

Originally posted by Melam:
Quote:



Which by theway, a friend and I are planing on cosplaying these two to my prom. I already bought the fabric for her dress and everything.



I hope you take pics for us to see. I'm interested in seeing how it comes out :)

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:28 AM

ZOID


UnregisteredCompanion wrote:
Quote:

Ya know...

the first time I saw the movie and Mr. Universe was first introduced, I was all "Who the hell is THIS dork!"

But after a few viewings, he has actually grown on me. Weird, huh?

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."


Well, considering that Mr. Universe may be reasonably seen as the "voice of the audience", or more specifically, as the "voice of the online community"...

I think Mr. Universe is kinda Joss' tip o' the hat to us (and all his other fansite worshipers), so it's not a bad thing that we like him at least a little, even if he is geeky and cheeky. Just like us.



Thoughtfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:39 AM

ZORPRIME01


First of all don't get me wrong on this, because I LOVE Serenity and Firefly! The movie did a very difficult thing playing to new audiences and those already familiar with the show/characters. Not an easy task!

But I will say that though I liked the Mr. Universe character, I found his presence a little too contrived. If he had even been mentioned in the series once prior, it would have made more sense. But the crew just seems to come to a point where they need help, and Wash says "Let's call Mr. Universe!"

Obviously, his character is a necessity in order to give Mal a means of sending out the transmission from Miranda as well as finding the subliminal code in the transmission that affects River, so he has to be there. I just felt that it could've been handled a little bit better.

I aim to misbehave.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:41 AM

ZOID


Kizyr wrote:
Quote:

...She is a "Lovebot". They're expensive, custom-made-to-order, hard to obtain (what company would advertise them publicly?), and earn you a black mark in the Companion registry. KF

Dude. If you've got a Lovebot(TM), you've got no need for a Companion, so the Guild can 'black mark' away until their dainty little fingers turn blue...

And let's not forget that he 'did the right thing by her'. He went beyond the call of chivalry. I mean, why buy the cow-bot, when you can get the synthetic milk for free? Unless of course he had personally modded the unit to bear him children -- like, maybe, implanted a clone incubator in her innards -- and he wanted them not to be born bastard-bots... *shivers and chuckles, simultaneously*



Overanalytically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:54 AM

HANSWURST


To: TheRealMe:
Why apologize? Your interpretation is just as valid as mine.

I don't think he was "still" in there when the Op walked by, and of course there was a motion detector, etc. It's just that the scene suggests to me the weird sci-fi idea of transfer of essense, etc. It's more interesting (to me).

Here's another example:

Mal calls Inarra a whore in an OOG flashback, and I have to wonder that with her upper class upbringing as a Companion, he was the first man to ever call her that. If so, it implies a lot about her character--and of course the nature of desire/attraction, etc.--that she falls in love with the only man who ever called her a whore.

Any solid proof to the contrary welcome. If it's not in the scripts, then that perhaps is one place I might say the series could have taken more risks: exploring the ambiguity of relationships even more so than it already does. While the ambivalence between she and Mal is obvious--perhaps some FanFic writer will take that dynamic deeper.

To fellow writers: the more character risks you take in your work, the deeper the characters become.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:36 AM

MATTCOZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Hanswurst:
Well, actually, he couldn't have typed the message because his voice is woven in with hers as she speaks. And as a sci-fi fan I'm naturally against the mundane idea that he merely recorded his voice. The whole thing suggests to me some kind of odd "transfer" yes, transfer, of his essense, his fading consciousness, in a sci-fi kind of way. The dull answer is he verbally recorded it. It's your world, you decide.


That may be the "sci-fi kind of way", but it's not the Firefly way. He just recorded it and the love-bot had a motion sensor that triggered the message. If it was his consciousness, do you think he would have told the operative?

edit: I see you kindof answered that question already. But my point stands that this isn't your standard sci-fi, the simplest answer is most likely the correct one.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:45 AM

HANSWURST


I respect your subjective opinion on the matter, and thank you for engaging in a dialogue with me about my own subjective opinion.

Quote:

Originally posted by mattcoz:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hanswurst:
Well, actually, he couldn't have typed the message because his voice is woven in with hers as she speaks. And as a sci-fi fan I'm naturally against the mundane idea that he merely recorded his voice. The whole thing suggests to me some kind of odd "transfer" yes, transfer, of his essense, his fading consciousness, in a sci-fi kind of way. The dull answer is he verbally recorded it. It's your world, you decide.


That may be the "sci-fi kind of way", but it's not the Firefly way. He just recorded it and the love-bot had a motion sensor that triggered the message. If it was his consciousness, do you think he would have told the operative?

edit: I see you kindof answered that question already. But my point stands that this isn't your standard sci-fi, the simplest answer is most likely the correct one.


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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:45 AM

HANSWURST



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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:45 AM

HANSWURST


PS
I don't understand how River reads minds. Anyone? All answers welcome, even simple ones.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 6:46 AM

HANSWURST



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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 7:07 AM

MATTCOZ


She's obviously tapping into more of the power of her brain than anyone else, I don't think we're really meant to understand how. The secrets of the human mind are largely unknown to us. Joss has said that psychics is the furthest he was willing to go with the sci-fi nature of his show, and by the way he responds to science questions I'm sure he doesn't have a real explanation for how she does it. She just does.

edit: She reads more than minds too, has a real sense for her surroundings. Like in Out of Gas when they had the fire, she knew before anyone else did.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 8:43 AM

HANSWURST


You (and Joss) make some excellent points, esp. about the human mind's possibilities being largely unknown to us. This was exactly my point re Mr. Universe. I must, however, disagree--and I'm sure Joss would too--with your notion that we ("we" who? George Bush? The stone carvers of the island of Yap? The late George Washington?) are not "meant" to understand our own minds. That idea smacks a bit too much of absolutism, which I in my subjectivity, reject. Again, like everything we've been discussing, it's all subjective--even Joss has subjectivity which affects his biases.

As far as River goes, the outsider as possessor of special powers goes a long way back culturally--everything from the Messiah to the Wise Fool. So, in fact, does the idea of a living human essense embedding itself in an inanimate object (See the Jewish myth of the Golem--interesting in light of Mr. Universe's Jewishness).

One might say we're not meant to understand how Mr. Universe got his voice into his robot girl; some people are satisfied with that. I'm not, and I don't take anyone's artistic interpretation as gospel (even Joss's).

Quote:

Originally posted by mattcoz:
She's obviously tapping into more of the power of her brain than anyone else, I don't think we're really meant to understand how. The secrets of the human mind are largely unknown to us. Joss has said that psychics is the furthest he was willing to go with the sci-fi nature of his show, and by the way he responds to science questions I'm sure he doesn't have a real explanation for how she does it. She just does.

edit: She reads more than minds too, has a real sense for her surroundings. Like in Out of Gas when they had the fire, she knew before anyone else did.


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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 8:57 AM

MATTCOZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Hanswurst:
You (and Joss) make some excellent points, esp. about the human mind's possibilities being largely unknown to us. This was exactly my point re Mr. Universe. I must, however, disagree--and I'm sure Joss would too--with your notion that we ("we" who? George Bush? The stone carvers of the island of Yap? The late George Washington?) are not "meant" to understand our own minds. That idea smacks a bit too much of absolutism, which I in my subjectivity, reject. Again, like everything we've been discussing, it's all subjective--even Joss has subjectivity which affects his biases.

As far as River goes, the outsider as possessor of special powers goes a long way back culturally--everything from the Messiah to the Wise Fool. So, in fact, does the idea of a living human essense embedding itself in an inanimate object (See the Jewish myth of the Golem--interesting in light of Mr. Universe's Jewishness).

One might say we're not meant to understand how Mr. Universe got his voice into his robot girl; some people are satisfied with that. I'm not, and I don't take anyone's artistic interpretation as gospel (even Joss's).


I didn't mean we aren't meant to understand our minds, like ever, I meant we aren't meant to understand how River does what she does in the movie. Don't really have to, just needs to be believable that she can. I also don't mean to say that transferring his "essence" is impossible, just that it's not necessary and doesn't really fit. In my opinion, when she repeated the message to the operative it showed without a doubt that it was just a recording. As Freud would say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 9:33 AM

DOBERMAN



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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 9:37 AM

HANSWURST


Whether Mr. Universe's transfer of his essense to the robot is "necessary" is, again, a personal judgment call on your part. I actually do find it necessary for my enjoyment of the story, so I'm not sure how to square that with your assuring me that it is unnecessary. Other than of course that two people who disagree on a topic can both be right. Or is that too relativistic?

For example, regarding your quote of Freud, the operative word is "sometimes". Sometimes a cigar IS more than a cigar (say) to Mrs. Freud, while it may be just a cigar to her husband. Does that make one of them wrong?


Quote:

Originally posted by mattcoz:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hanswurst:
You (and Joss) make some excellent points, esp. about the human mind's possibilities being largely unknown to us. This was exactly my point re Mr. Universe. I must, however, disagree--and I'm sure Joss would too--with your notion that we ("we" who? George Bush? The stone carvers of the island of Yap? The late George Washington?) are not "meant" to understand our own minds. That idea smacks a bit too much of absolutism, which I in my subjectivity, reject. Again, like everything we've been discussing, it's all subjective--even Joss has subjectivity which affects his biases.

As far as River goes, the outsider as possessor of special powers goes a long way back culturally--everything from the Messiah to the Wise Fool. So, in fact, does the idea of a living human essense embedding itself in an inanimate object (See the Jewish myth of the Golem--interesting in light of Mr. Universe's Jewishness).

One might say we're not meant to understand how Mr. Universe got his voice into his robot girl; some people are satisfied with that. I'm not, and I don't take anyone's artistic interpretation as gospel (even Joss's).


I didn't mean we aren't meant to understand our minds, like ever, I meant we aren't meant to understand how River does what she does in the movie. Don't really have to, just needs to be believable that she can. I also don't mean to say that transferring his "essence" is impossible, just that it's not necessary and doesn't really fit. In my opinion, when she repeated the message to the operative it showed without a doubt that it was just a recording. As Freud would say, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 10:21 AM

MATTCOZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Hanswurst:
Whether Mr. Universe's transfer of his essense to the robot is "necessary" is, again, a personal judgment call on your part. I actually do find it necessary for my enjoyment of the story


You couldn't enjoy the story if he just recorded the message? That's a lot to hang on one small detail. I'm in no way trying to take any enjoyment away from you.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 10:58 AM

LOSTNO1FAN


The first thing I thought of was the Buffybot, and that chick robot reminded me of her. And ugh, yes, I do remember what spike did to her, alas, Mr. Universe could have done that too. Knowing Joss, yes....sounds like the same!

"Smells like crotch"

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