GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What does River see?

POSTED BY: ASARIAN
UPDATED: Saturday, February 25, 2006 23:11
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VIEWED: 3214
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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:44 PM

ASARIAN


Okay, I was watching River again tonight. No surprise, there. :) But then I saw something really curious in Bushwhacked. Look, if you will, at the outtake of this frame, from River gazing at the stars:



In the reflection of the glass of her helmet you see ... two figures dancing! To the left, there's a small girl with long black hair, in a dress, back arched, head tilted slightly to her right. And next to it, larger, what seems to be the same girl, standing up (though seemingly bent because of the glass).

How odd is that! Is this perhaps what River 'sees' and makes her smile? Her happy childhood, when she loved to dance?

Could be just my imagination, of course. I thought it was real cute, though.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:54 PM

HIXIE129


hi asarian,

Listen i know you really have this special love for
River, but I think you are starting to see things that aren't there. I mean this to me looks like ...
I really don't know how to put this gently but a clit.

{edit} I am also looking at it on an old laptop.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:10 PM

DARKJESTER


I see a reflection of Simon's spacesuit helmet. Not terribly imaginative, sorry. I like what you see better, asarian!

edit: and looking closer, I think I see the "girl" on the left.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:10 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Nah, to me it looks like Gandalf the Grey mussing a Hobbit child's hair. Really it's just a trick of the light coupled with the human brain's incredible ability to see things that aren't there.

Edit: Besides we know what it is that River sees that's got her so totaly stoked. It's the stars, the wonderfull paint brush of the milky way lighting up infinity. A sight Simon could actually do without if it would mean he never had to wear a spacesuit again.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:12 PM

EARLYSUMMER


Sorry Asarian, I can't see anything either.
Maybe if I relax my eyes enough..oh look, a sailboat...oops wrong picture, never mind.

"I hear crickets."

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Friday, February 24, 2006 4:54 PM

NUCLEARDAY


Hrmm... yeah, I see Gandalf giving benediction to a hobbit as well... ;p

Still, I think I like Asarian's better...

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:09 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


I think she sees a guy with a frightening obsession for her.

But what I see is a hopeless romantic who just hasn't had the harsh realities of the world beat him into oblivion yet. Here's to the future, mate.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:10 PM

GARBAGECANMUSIC


I see Simon's helmet....and I do see the girl...

and I have no idea what in the hell Hixie is talking about...

How much is that little Geisha in the window?

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:14 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by garbagecanmusic:

I see Simon's helmet....and I do see the girl...



Admittedly, I now see Simon's helmet, too (on the right). I still see the little girl, though, on the left. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 5:28 PM

RHYIANAN


I hate to say it, but my personal thoughts are that the reflection is simply that, a reflection of something that was in the room (or set, or whatever) when they shot the footage. As a photographer, I can say that sometimes it's hard to predict what would be reflected at a particular angle. Not too mention that this is probably looking WAY too deep into what is a fairly straight-forward scene.

Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:37 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:

But what I see is a hopeless romantic who just hasn't had the harsh realities of the world beat him into oblivion yet.




Or maybe you just see a guy who's seen so much of life's harsh realities, that he needs to believe in the beauty of the River person and the world she stands for.

Something to consider...


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:47 PM

DINKY


I only see part of a beautiful face :D and Simon's stuff. I guess I'm just too sane to be seeing things like you people.

And why is this image hosted it http://divine-love.org/ ??

EDIT: OHHH!!! I see the 'girls' now. Those are just dark parts of the reflective surface. The BROWN... Which is the odd color that is SUPPOSED to attract the eye when looking at the reflection is the ACTUAL reflection you WEIRDO'S!!!

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Friday, February 24, 2006 9:10 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Dinky:

EDIT: OHHH!!! I see the 'girls' now. Those are just dark parts of the reflective surface. The BROWN... Which is the odd color that is SUPPOSED to attract the eye when looking at the reflection is the ACTUAL reflection you WEIRDO'S!!!




I guess you don't see it that way. And sure, I'm a little weird; and I'm usually the first to admit it; no reason to scream it in my face, though.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:40 PM

BRITCHICK


I can see the girl on the left, and she definitely looks like she's dancing.

I don't care whether it was an accident of shooting, or whether it was one of Joss' clever little details for fans (like the newspaper in one of the Buffy episodes)... I think it's lovely.

And I think your interpretation - that River sees the dancers and that what makes her smile - is fine by me.

I can't wait to watch the episode again now.

Thanks for sharing Asari, and Don't let the naysayers get you down!


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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:46 PM

EYESDRIEDOPEN


Dead people. It's dead people right?

For a super smooth visual and auditory melding with all that is good and pure check out:


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Friday, February 24, 2006 11:49 PM

EYESDRIEDOPEN


Now that I look at it a little closer... I think I see some plaque build up.

EDO

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:03 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Rhyianan:

I hate to say it, but my personal thoughts are that the reflection is simply that, a reflection of something that was in the room (or set, or whatever) when they shot the footage.




Why, but that would also make it cute, don't ya think? :) What if there were a Summer Glau picture on the set, on a wall or something, with her dancing, and we see it reflected? Wouldn't that be awesome? :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:17 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by britchick:

I can see the girl on the left, and she definitely looks like she's dancing.

I don't care whether it was an accident of shooting, or whether it was one of Joss' clever little details for fans (like the newspaper in one of the Buffy episodes)... I think it's lovely.

And I think your interpretation - that River sees the dancers and that what makes her smile - is fine by me.

I can't wait to watch the episode again now.

Thanks for sharing Asari, and Don't let the naysayers get you down!




Thank you, britchick, for your kind words. :) In all earnest, I was a bit in need of them, too. I was looking for usable frames for compositions and such, and then I just suddenly saw the small girl figure on the left (who, honestly, really still looks like she's dancing; and, qua long dark hair and all, really could be River). And I just thought it might be cute to share that; I didn't expect some people to go all weird on me. But that's all air through the engine now. I'm glad you liked it. :) Thank you!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 5:22 AM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Yeah, you can muck it up any which way you want with "maybe".

I once accused a "battle buddy" of mine of the same thing, that he hadn't been sufficiently beaten to get the romantic ideas of life out of his head. He responded in the same manner, saying that "Maybe I've just been beaten so much that I have to beleive in them". He was a nice guy, no doubt, probably my closest friend in the platoon. Thing was he couldn't even make it through basic training.

I still got no qualms with the guy, but it was a really asinine thing for him to argue the way he did. Everybody and their mother thinks they had rough times, they got hit once as a child, the majority of girls I've known claim to have been raped at one time or another, they've experienced the death of a loved one, etc. Maybe in their own tiny little worlds, it suffices as tragedy, but the unfortunate fact is that those are common problems these days.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 5:44 AM

GRIZWALD


Asarian, see what you want to see. It's like clouds. I like your interpretation. I also love that image of River with a huge, irrepressible grin on her sweet face.

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:32 AM

THEPISTONENGINE


That was hillarious.

My first thought after looking at the picture: I do see the girl, but it's obviously not a picture. If it was intended to be there, it is a stencil or something of the like.

I watched it fulled speed three or four times afterwords. It's actually Simon's shoulder. Shaped real funny though, and in the next scene you can still make out a stretched version of the dancing girl.

Nice try Asarian. Good pick up, though.

Quote:

Originally posted by EyesDriedOpen:
Now that I look at it a little closer... I think I see some plaque build up.

EDO


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Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:07 AM

ZOID



ChristMoorhead:

Just so I'm understanding you correctly -- cuz when I first read your pseudo-philosophical crap I was sure you were just taking the piss -- you're actually claiming to have a master's degree from the school of hard knocks, then?

...Enough to pass judgement on the suffering of others, and finding them wanting by your standards, to condemn others of being 'pussies'? Furthermore, you feel a deep-seated need to put those others in their places, to belittle their feelings on a friendly website?

Wow. Are you ever f*cked up in the head, dude...



Sympathetically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:52 AM

THEPISTONENGINE


Sigh. Time to close this thread.

I have to mention, 'cause I'm in the Navy... "Go Navy, Beat Army"


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

ChristMoorhead:

Just so I'm understanding you correctly -- cuz when I first read your pseudo-philosophical crap I was sure you were just taking the piss -- you're actually claiming to have a master's degree from the school of hard knocks, then?

...Enough to pass judgement on the suffering of others, and finding them wanting by your standards, to condemn others of being 'pussies'? Furthermore, you feel a deep-seated need to put those others in their places, to belittle their feelings on a friendly website?

Wow. Are you ever f*cked up in the head, dude...



Sympathetically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'


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Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:09 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ThePistonEngine:

That was hillarious.

My first thought after looking at the picture: I do see the girl, but it's obviously not a picture. If it was intended to be there, it is a stencil or something of the like.

I watched it fulled speed three or four times afterwords. It's actually Simon's shoulder. Shaped real funny though, and in the next scene you can still make out a stretched version of the dancing girl.

Nice try Asarian. Good pick up, though.




Awwww. I still like what I saw better. :) Thanks for your further investigation, though.

The irony of it actually is, that this whole "dancing girl" thing turns out to be a good metaphor for how I look at life in general. Given the option to see a helmet, or a dancing girl, I want to see the latter; I choose to see the latter, rather. Really, reality is overrated. Because, quite frankly, it sucks. Until, one fine day, I was told: "You just need to look with better eyes." And so I try. I choose to see the beauty of things. And I'm neither embarrassed now, nor sad because of your findings. Tomorrow I will make a conscious effort to see the world in the exact same light. Better for the soul. There's a lot of Kaylee in me, really.

River is truly awesome; and I believe in her, and all she stands for, with all my heart. Because I need that belief. Because without River this world is simply too overwhelming for me. "Little souls, big world," as she said so beautifully.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:59 PM

ZOID



TPE:

Beauty makes me cry. I like to imagine a perfect world. I see castles in cloudscapes. I believe that our imaginations are the greatest gifts we possess, and that we should never allow anything to rob us of those treasures.

I have also had events transpire in my life, any one of which would have killed lesser men. But rather than allow those "harsh realities of the world beat him into oblivion", I have refused to surrender. As a consequence, I find myself better prepared to recognize the moments of beauty that Life occasionally unfolds before our very eyes, and better able to accept them with an open heart.

So, I say, "Keep on dreaming. Keep on living a chivalrous life, and having a pervasive sense of joyous playfulness in your life." Don't be a weakling, and allow the child within you to be emotionally abused by 'the world'...

The school of hard knocks teaches humility, compassion, and an overwhelming appreciation of even the simplest pleasures (i.e., your wife's smile, the smell of your children's hair as you hug them). Anyone who spits on the suffering of others by calling it 'whining' hasn't learned their lesson well enough.



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
That which does not kill you... Frequently leaves you irreparably broken, to stoically live out your days with diminished physical capacity and in constant pain. But nothing can break my spirit, nor my sense of wonder at the amazing beauty all around me. Maybe I and others like me are just better connected to Life than those who give up.

P.P.S.
I know it serves "the needs of the military" to induce such psychological programming upon its members; but I'd seriously consider taking my mind back from the programmers, at some point. You don't have to integrate all that crap to be a good soldier. You can make a conscious choice to retain your humanity. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:13 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:

TPE:

Beauty makes me cry. I like to imagine a perfect world. I see castles in cloudscapes. I believe that our imaginations are the greatest gifts we possess, and that we should never allow anything to rob us of those treasures.

I have also had events transpire in my life, any one of which would have killed lesser men. But rather than allow those "harsh realities of the world beat him into oblivion", I have refused to surrender. As a consequence, I find myself better prepared to recognize the moments of beauty that Life occasionally unfolds before our very eyes, and better able to accept them with an open heart.

So, I say, "Keep on dreaming. Keep on living a chivalrous life, and having a pervasive sense of joyous playfulness in your life." Don't be a weakling, and allow the child within you to be emotionally abused by 'the world'...

The school of hard knocks teaches humility, compassion, and an overwhelming appreciation of even the simplest pleasures (i.e., your wife's smile, the smell of your children's hair as you hug them). Anyone who spits on the suffering of others by calling it 'whining' hasn't learned their lesson well enough.



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
That which does not kill you... Frequently leaves you irreparably broken, to stoically live out your days with diminished physical capacity and in constant pain. But nothing can break my spirit, nor my sense of wonder at the amazing beauty all around me. Maybe I and others like me are just better connected to Life than those who give up.

P.P.S.
I know it serves "the needs of the military" to induce such psychological programming upon its members; but I'd seriously consider taking my mind back from the programmers, at some point. You don't have to integrate all that crap to be a good soldier. You can make a conscious choice to retain your humanity. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'



I'm TPE? If so, are you referring to my response about the picture or me replying to ChristMooreHead?

If the latter...I believe you misunderstand my post. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with you or Christ. My "Go Navy, Beat Army" was simply a prod because he's a soldier and I'm a sailor. A freindly kick in the balls, if you will.

I certainly did not mean to imply that you were wrong in anything you said.

If you were talking about me unvieling the mystery of the Dancing River, I was simply being analytical. Like most people here, I too see the beauty of Firefly.

As for your comments on the military, I do not know your experience with the military and I am simply an Academy student, but refering to the training as pyschological programming, though true in some respects, is fairly misguided. Of course, I'm recieving vastly different training than enlisted.

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:28 PM

ZOID


ThePistonEngine (aka, "TPE", for short):

I was simply responding to your quoting my entire post, in which my intent was to pull CM off of asarian, rather than just watch asarian get mugged in public. To that, you curtly replied, "Sigh. Time to close this thread."

So my second post was meant to say, "No... Just time to treat others with the same respect we'd demand for ourselves." Bullies get my dander up. I even let his first shot at asarian go, cuz like I said, I thought he was joking. I mean, it had to be a joke, right? Publicly ridiculing a guy because he sees a dancer in a face shield, a bird in tea leaves, or a rabbit in a cloud?

Telling asarian that he's got too romantic a world view? Where does anybody get off doing that?

Incredible.

As to the military thang: Good luck with the Academy. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that River's Academy experience turned out to be somewhat more mind-altering than she originally anticipated.

The military mindset gets given to you in a big dose at boot/basic (at least in my day). But then it continues to insinuate its way into your mental processes on pretty much a daily basis the whole time you're 'in'. And, sorry to say, it's the same with officers, just with a different focus. That's why so many former members have a hard time adjusting to civilian life when they finally do get out. You've been programmed so thoroughly to think a certain way, a particular slant, that former members frequently finds themselves at odds with 'the real world'. Not so much non-functional, as just out-of-synch with the way average J. Citizens view the world.

You gotta be really self-aware, but the game can be beaten; at least to a greater extent than if you just let them mold your head like so much putty. And if your core belief is: "I am willing to sacrifice any and every aspect of my being for my family's safety and well-being, and for the families of all Americans", then you'll be a good soldier, even if you don't allow the head games to become an integral part of your psychological makeup. It ain't about politics, ain't about 'my country right or wrong'. Leave all that to the politicians and the acting community. It's about you, willingly risking your ass to protect your family and the families of other common men, from those who would kill/subjugate them.

But like I said, the ways the military gets into your head is very subtle, and is subtly different for different classes of warrior, depending on whether they want you to throw yourself at a heavily fortified position, carpet bomb an enemy position, or turn a key and push a button while buried beneath a Mid-American wheat field or beneath the Indian Ocean... As Book might say, "They'll come at you sideways. Sidle up and smile." Just never become deadened to the fact that they're doing it, everyday, in every way, and you should be alright.

Good luck and Godspeed.



Sincerely,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:52 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
ThePistonEngine (aka, "TPE", for short):

...

But like I said, the ways the military gets into your head is very subtle, and is subtly different for different classes of warrior, depending on whether they want you to throw yourself at a heavily fortified position, carpet bomb an enemy position, or turn a key and push a button while buried beneath a Mid-American wheat field or beneath the Indian Ocean... As Book might say, "They'll come at you sideways. Sidle up and smile." Just never become deadened to the fact that they're doing it, everyday, in every way, and you should be alright.

Good luck and Godspeed.



Sincerely,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'



I understand completely. As I said, my experiance is somewhat limited, but I do not see it the same way you do. Yes, the military does "program" people with a certain mindset that allows them to do things that most people would crap their pants at doing.
But, at least as an officer, we are taught to think through all the consequences and ethics of our decisions. Carpet bombing, though it killed millions of people in ww2, would almost never be considered today.

But I do see your point. For the weak minded, the rigid conformity, selfless brotherhood, and strict disclipline may become too much of a person, and they will have trouble adapting. Killing people and seeing buddies killed probably goes someways towards changing a body. However, I see it as a function of the person, not of the training and indoctrination.

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 9:00 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Wow, I guess you told me.

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 9:15 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


And what's with the whole competativeness between services? Aint we all fighting for the same thing?

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:11 PM

MER


What's odsd is, I see the one on the left as a woman holding a child the one on the right does look like a reflection...
Damn...someone should bring this to Joss's attention to see what the hell it really is *_*;;

I can only hope it's not a reflection...b/c the way someone face curves and how far the light is, determines the shadow might look like...but it had yellow and blue in it and that's no where near her skin color.

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