GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Can we legally form a church?

POSTED BY: HIXIE129
UPDATED: Monday, March 6, 2006 15:29
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Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:24 AM

HIXIE129


Couldn't' we legally apply to the government as a formal religion and form our own church?

Religion: Whedonism (based on the writings of Joss Whedon's Firefly/Serenity)
Bible: The transcripts of all the shows collected together to from a book. Additional interviews with Joss would become letters to the churches from Joss. We could have them translated in the different language of the religious members.

Head of the Church: Joss Whedon
Apostles:
1) Mal
2) Zoë
3) Wash -- and Martyr
4) Book -- and Martyr
5) Inara
6) Jayne
7) Kaylee
8) Simon (hey, this really works!)
9) River
10) Serenity
11) River's feet (this is one of my favorite Apostles. I could worship her feet all day long.) We might even form a monastic sect where day and night her feet are worshipped.
12) Saffron

Some doctrine. Members of this church meet weekly for services to hear the 'verse contained in the good news of Joss Whedon. Daily pray is watching a Firefly episode. ???

Members promote love and give evangelical support. We could send out missionaries for the conversion and salvation of those who have not heard the verse and also to help bring the show back on TV. ?????

We collect money during services, bingo nights and church showings of the episodes and movie.
Money goes to support evangical missionaries and movie sequel. ?????

Deacons are people who hosts shindigs and or weekly services. ???

Church Holidays:
1) Joss birthday
2) Apostles birthdays
3) The first day firefly appeared on TV
4) Death of firefly (last day it appeared on FOX)
5) Day the movie first appeared in Theaters (different day for each part of the globe where movie opened.)
6) ?

Just some thoughts in my head, there is much more that needs fixing, all input welcomed. Maybe it should be fashion in a more eastern flavor, I am not familiar with eastern religions but I'm opened to anything.

Believe!




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Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:58 AM

GROUNDED


This is exactly the kind of thing that's going to up the fandom's credibility...

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:09 AM

ROSS52


you might be able to legally.. but um, no. How about let's not.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:14 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


The Book of Joss


Behold, that there was Buffy the Vampire Slayer which was a Box Office bomb, which begat Buffy the Vampire Slayer which was a UPN smash hit, which begat Angel that I did not watch, which begat Firefly the Big Damn TV show, which began Serenity the Big Damn Movie and all the generations from Buffy the Vampire Slayer which was a Box Office bomb to Serenity the Big Damn Movie were 13.
And in the day of Buffy the Vampire Slayer which was a UPN smash hit and Angel which I did not watch, there came Firefly, the Big Damn TV show.
Lo, for the Fox Network caused a great plague of locusts to come upon Firefly and consumeth the bounty of the Market, and Firefly was rendered asunder and a locust did fly up Joss’ nose and Joss did sneeze and blew forth a Big Damn Movie.
And Joss went unto the Land of Fox TV and spake, saying “Fox Network why hast thou caused a plague of locusts to come upon Firefly and consumeth the bounty of the Market, such that Firefly was rendered asunder and a locust did fly up on my nose that I did sneeze and blew forth a Big Damn Movie?”
And Fox Network smote him on the head, saying “the bounty of thy nose is great but it shall never bring forth Firefly unto the land of Fox Network TV.”



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:15 AM

HIXIE129


Well, if you want to believe in something why not this?

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:19 AM

MER


Actually, if it's Whedonism, it should include Buffy and Angel b/c well, in in a way, Buffy's kind of holy. Angel, he's seeking for redemption..very saint or fallen guy type of stuff.

But I'd say what you have there is Fireflyism which is part of the Whedon religion. lol I could swear I sound scary right now...

(So all in all, yes, it's possible for a religion-I__I;;)

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:27 AM

GRIZWALD


Baptism would be in Mudder's Milk, naturally--and we could have our first internicene split over whether one should be baptized by immersion or sprinkling. (I am going to be of the immersion camp.)

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:34 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Capital idea! (Also, Finn, that cracked me up but good :)

I heretofore decree Whedonism as the official religion of my universe.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/showblog.asp?b=3323➒

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:49 AM

ARTCAT81


Actually Firefly/serenity has been compared to a religion by several critics already,
"Is it a show or a religion"

Browncoats are the shiniest folks in the 'verse

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:55 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
Couldn't' we legally apply to the government as a formal religion and form our own church?



In the USA it's not that hard to qualify but it is lot of paperwork and hasle to go through for some minor tax benefits. The easiest is to be an ordained minister of an already recognized church (you can probably still do this online) and then form a breakaway sect. Once you do that you need to incorporate with a board of directors. Then of course the IRS will be very interested in the finances of your new religion. They take a dislike to people who try to use the religious exemption as a tax dodge.

Or if you just want to be a religion without worrying about the IRS you don't need permision at all - just start preachin' brother.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:59 AM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Funny, cause I looked into those Star Wars geeks trying something like this a while back. A friend of mine in the Air Force claims that there's actually a good number of people who list "Jedi" as their religion on their dog tags. Further research revealed fans putting it as their religion on census forms in Australia and England. So far, though, I havn't heard of any structured organizations promoting "The Force".

I also stumbled across a national guardsman who had his name legally changed to Optimus Prime.
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=3828

Have you ever:
Used your teeth as wire strippers?
Given yourself stitches?
Made improvised munitions with no base supplies?
Pissed in a canteen?
Gone a month without bathing?

If so, you MIGHT just be a !HOOAH MOTHERF*CKER!

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:16 AM

RHYIANAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
Funny, cause I looked into those Star Wars geeks trying something like this a while back. A friend of mine in the Air Force claims that there's actually a good number of people who list "Jedi" as their religion on their dog tags. Further research revealed fans putting it as their religion on census forms in Australia and England. So far, though, I havn't heard of any structured organizations promoting "The Force".

I also stumbled across a national guardsman who had his name legally changed to Optimus Prime.
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=3828




There's a lot of people that list their religion as Jedi when they're registering to vote as well.


Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:24 AM

HIXIE129


Maybe we can take some version of FINN MAC CUMAHL's Book of Joss to preface the first episode.

MER couldn't we make Buffy and Angel the Arch Angels?

GRIZWALD no split on creed here, doesn't matter, can be dipped, dunked or drenched. We're very liberal.

ARTCAT81, lets make it a religion then.

DAVESHAYNE that’s pretty good. Does the church need only one ordained minister of an already recognized church in order to start another church? I don't like knowing that the IRS will be looking at us.

Maybe we can keep thinking about the Book of Joss and get back to application.



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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:27 AM

CAPTAINSHINY


Whedonism: The sci-fi religion that doesnt take your money.

-Stay Shiny
"The people who made the show, and the people who saw the show, which is roughly the same number of people, fell in love with it, a little bit too much to let it go, too much to lay down arms when when the battle looked pretty much lost. In Hollywood, people like that are called unrealistic, quixotic, obsessive... In my world, they're called Browncoats."
-Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:28 AM

HIXIE129


So then we are Whedonists or should we use browncoat? I personally lean towards browncoat.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:29 AM

CAPTAINSHINY


Browncoat can be a secty thing perhaps, like baptists or something

-Stay Shiny
"The people who made the show, and the people who saw the show, which is roughly the same number of people, fell in love with it, a little bit too much to let it go, too much to lay down arms when when the battle looked pretty much lost. In Hollywood, people like that are called unrealistic, quixotic, obsessive... In my world, they're called Browncoats."
-Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:39 AM

FOLLOWMAL



Hey, if you really want to do this, I suggest giving Finn the job of writing the Holy Works of Whedon, because well.... he's got my vote.

Excellent my fleet typing friend, excellent!

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:52 AM

HIXIE129


What about our dogma. In the DBM the Operative is always asking do you know what your sin is? What do we believe, good?, evil?, is there heaven?. Is there penitence? What about pilgrimages. Do we have things like sacraments?


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:02 AM

FOLLOWMAL



Can our pilgrmage be to gather around the Cap'n once a year in Cali and worship him.... please...

Oh, wait did I say that out loud?

Please diregard any previous statement uttered by this 'coat. She went temporarily insane. She seems to be better now. Well, sort of.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:07 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
DAVESHAYNE that’s pretty good. Does the church need only one ordained minister of an already recognized church in order to start another church? I don't like knowing that the IRS will be looking at us.



Ok, I should have said this in the first post but I am not a lawyer. Not only am I not a lawyer I don't even play one on television. That said I'm not sure if it's even a legal requirement to havea previously ordained minister it just makes things smoother. As to the IRS the only reason to incorporate as a religion is for tax purposes so if you don't want the feds on you then just don't incorporate. Sure you lose the tax exemption but taxation in the states isn't all that onerous. I'd say it's only really worth it if you have enough money going through your organization to make it worthwhile to pay a lawyer and an accountant to keep all of the tax stuff in order.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:20 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
What about our dogma. In the DBM the Operative is always asking do you know what your sin is? What do we believe, good?, evil?, is there heaven?. Is there penitence? What about pilgrimages. Do we have things like sacraments?




Dogma:

We hold, we hold till Serenity comes back.

Sin:

Good? Evil? We're the ones with the guns. (Sorry wrong movie)

Penitence:

"Forgive me Shepherd for I have sinned it's been 3 weeks since I saw my last episode."

"Say three hail Whedons and watch the Train Job."

Pilgrimages:

Well there is the crew looking to rescue the Ariel ambulance. Once they get that together I think we all need to consider a road trip.

Sacraments:

We must snark with great wit and pepper our lanquage with Fireflyisms. We must share the word of Whedon to all who will hear; but not door to door because that's just creepy and rude.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:21 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
What about our dogma. In the DBM the Operative is always asking do you know what your sin is? What do we believe, good?, evil?, is there heaven?. Is there penitence? What about pilgrimages. Do we have things like sacraments?




Dogma:

We hold, we hold till Serenity comes back.

Sin:

Good? Evil? We're the ones with the guns. (Sorry wrong movie)

Penitence:

"Forgive me Shepherd for I have sinned it's been 3 weeks since I saw my last episode."

"Say three hail Whedons and watch the Train Job."

Pilgrimages:

Well there is the crew looking to rescue the Ariel ambulance. Once they get that together I think we all need to consider a road trip.

Sacraments:

We must snark with great wit and pepper our lanquage with Fireflyisms. We must share the word of Whedon to all who will hear; but not door to door because that's just creepy and rude.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon



Ok, I'm in. Sounds like my kinda religion!

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:23 AM

HIXIE129


That's good. I don't think that it would be a lot of money than. Maybe if we put a Bible together we can sell leather bound copies to support the church. And we can produce soft copies for free.


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:26 AM

HIXIE129


Thats right we need prayers!

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:31 AM

CBY


If you want others to make fun of you, that's the way to go. To quote Tim Allen from Galaxy Quest: "It's just a tv show!" (a good one though). People will have a good laugh at this (including me).

°°°°°°°°°°°°
http://www.byond-trax.com - my selfmade ambient/lounge/chillout music
www.botttos.de/mphillips/mphillips_vol1.exe - mphillips 100 in 1 pack Vol.1

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:36 AM

HIXIE129


Don't we need to laugh? I think so. I also think it would be cool to produce a bible. And there are some really great artists on this site. I saw mphillips work it is great. But we need to get the scripture together.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:27 AM

HIXIE129


I ripped apart the Nicene Creed. I am really bad at writing but we need a start of a prayer. I really don't care what the pray contains. So here is the start of a prayer.

Whedon Creed

We believe in Whedon the Father of good writing, Maker of Serenity and Firefly, and of all TV shows that were great and are to come. He spoke thru the Apostles (characters). The Whedon suffered under FOX and was canceled by them, and in two years he rose again according to his promise. He will come again in glory to judge the Networks and his Whedondom will have no end.

And we believe in the Spirit of the Browncoats, who proceedeth from the Whedon and being of one substance with the Whedon. And we believe in one holy Whedonistic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one Mudders baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of Firefly, and the life of the verse to come. Amen.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:44 AM

SINGATE


Just a slight addition, those who are immersed must drink their way out ala Peter Griffin.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:49 AM

DAVESHAYNE


A new Serenity Prayer,

Please grant me the power to change what I can
The wisdon to accept what I can't
And 5 seasons of Serenity the series

Amen

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:50 AM

HIXIE129


excellent dave.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:14 AM

SERENITYSLITTLEANGEL



How about this:

Our Joss,
Who art in California,
Hailed be your name,
May your series come,
And your will be done,
All around our 'Verse,
As it is in yours.
Give us this day our daily Firefly
And forgive our doubts
As we forgive those who do not worship you
Lead us not into the ways of the evil Fox
But deliver us a Big Damn Sequel
For you are the greatest writer and director of all time, forever and ever.
Amen.





------------------------------------
20 conversions and counting!!!

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:17 AM

HIXIE129


SLAngel, that is great!

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:38 PM

KIZYR


Enough with this. If you really seek enlightenment, then read from the Book of Origin. Hallowed are the Ori. KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:08 PM

HIXIE129


This is not for enlightenment, nor is it a study in theology. But is it a way to show much we have been affected by the verse.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:25 PM

DONCOAT


Communion:
(1) Bite of strawberry
(2) Slug of Mudders' Milk


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:33 PM

HIXIE129


YES! I really like that!!!!!!!!

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:05 PM

HIXIE129


Joss took a strawberry, and blessed it, and gave it to Kaylee and said, Take, and eat. This is part of my script. And she did. So we now do this in remembrance of Firefly.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:11 PM

CAPTAINSHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

Can our pilgrmage be to gather around the Cap'n once a year in Cali and worship him.... please...

Oh, wait did I say that out loud?

Please diregard any previous statement uttered by this 'coat. She went temporarily insane. She seems to be better now. Well, sort of.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal


No, you didn't say it out loud, you ust typed it for others to read. We don't know you, though, so its OK.

We do need some sort of pilgrimage... is dressing in white robes and walking around the Ka'aba taken?

-Stay Shiny
"The people who made the show, and the people who saw the show, which is roughly the same number of people, fell in love with it, a little bit too much to let it go, too much to lay down arms when when the battle looked pretty much lost. In Hollywood, people like that are called unrealistic, quixotic, obsessive... In my world, they're called Browncoats."
-Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:14 PM

ARCADIA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
Head of the Church: Joss Whedon
Apostles:
1) Mal
2) Zoë
3) Wash
4) Book
5) Inara
6) Jayne
7) Kaylee
8) Simon (hey, this really works!)
9) River
10) Serenity
11) River's feet (this is one of my favorite Apostles. I could worship her feet all day long.) We might even form a monastic sect where day and night her feet are worshipped.
12) ?




Can number twelve please be River's branch from OiS? Please? I'm sort of in love with it, lol...

Possible Commandments (in no particular order):
1. Shot first. :-)
2. Someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back.
3. Yhe small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
4. It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
5. If you ever kill a person, let them be awake, facing you, and armed.
6. When you can't run anymore, you crawl... and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you.
7. You can't stop the signal.
8. If you're going to stab someone in the back, have the balls to do it to their face.
9. Mercy is the mark of great men (or woman). Aim to be a good man (or woman. Well... aim to be all right.
10. Love. You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her home.

This is a funny thread. :-) If there ever was a firefly church, though, I would be highly alarmed.

"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:24 PM

HIXIE129


Hi Arcadia

Wow the commandments are really good!


I think that the branch could be 12, but what about Saffron as #12, She is really hot.


Next Joss took the cup, and when He had given thanks He gave it to us saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is Mudders Milk and its 15% alcohol. So we now do this in remembrance of Firefly.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:49 PM

ARCADIA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
I think that the branch could be 12, but what about Saffron as #12, She is really hot.



Saffron is a foxy lady, but, well... never underestimate my love for that gorram branch, lol. It will always be in my heart. If it can't be an apostle, than maybe an archangel?

Also, Saffron is sort of psycotic/evil, and never lived aboard Serenity. Of course, neither was the branch (except in River's mind...)

Maybe Wah's dinosaurs should be the tweleth apostle. Or Inara's shuttle. Or the mule. Or Zoe's gun (because it is the coolest gun ever. Or Vera (because she has a name). Something that has to do with Serenity herself.

"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:54 PM

HIXIE129


CaptainShiny, the white robes aren't taken, but we are ordinary folks so there really shouldn't be a dress code. Where to pilgrimage, I really don't know yet, need more ideas.


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:55 PM

HIXIE129


Arcadia, It is definitely an Arch Angel!!!!!!!!!

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:55 PM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by CaptainShiny:
No, you didn't say it out loud, you ust typed it for others to read. We don't know you, though, so its OK.



Sorry....

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:59 PM

MINIME


Quote:

Originally posted by Rhyianan:
Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
Funny, cause I looked into those Star Wars geeks trying something like this a while back. A friend of mine in the Air Force claims that there's actually a good number of people who list "Jedi" as their religion on their dog tags. Further research revealed fans putting it as their religion on census forms in Australia and England. So far, though, I havn't heard of any structured organizations promoting "The Force".

I also stumbled across a national guardsman who had his name legally changed to Optimus Prime.
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=3828




Apparently at the last Australian census there was a move to try and get 'Jedi' listed as an official religion; all it would take (apparently) was enough people ticking the 'other' box on the form and filling in 'Jedi'... the mind boggles...

There's a lot of people that list their religion as Jedi when they're registering to vote as well.


Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:01 PM

HIXIE129


Thats okay FollowMall, and you never know, you could get a chance to worship your favorite guy :)

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:04 PM

FOLLOWMAL



Thanks, Hixie I feel a little better.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:32 PM

HIXIE129


On the Question of Sin

Whoever, therefore, eats the strawberry or drinks the cup of MuddersMilk in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the church and he will go to that special hell that is reserved for child molesters and people who talk in the theater.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:09 PM

DRUIDESS


Quote:


Dogma:

We hold, we hold till Serenity comes back.

Sin:

Good? Evil? We're the ones with the guns. (Sorry wrong movie)

Penitence:

"Forgive me Shepherd for I have sinned it's been 3 weeks since I saw my last episode."

"Say three hail Whedons and watch the Train Job."

Pilgrimages:

Well there is the crew looking to rescue the Ariel ambulance. Once they get that together I think we all need to consider a road trip.

Sacraments:

We must snark with great wit and pepper our lanquage with Fireflyisms. We must share the word of Whedon to all who will hear; but not door to door because that's just creepy and rude.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon



I am so in.



"The world's divided into two groups, panda's and alligator boys."

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:34 PM

HIXIE129


Great, I'll be working on more tomorrow.

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