GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Mal and the Operative

POSTED BY: CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 09:25
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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:39 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


There's been a lot of debate over why Mal chose not to kill the Operative and I think I've found an explanation. I was trying to explain to someone why Mal chose to bring River back onto the ship and it got me thinking that Mal kinda sees River and the Operative in the same way, not quite as kindred souls, but as people who've been broken by the Alliance. In the same way that he knows River was brainwashed and didn't kill the men in the Maidenhead, the Operative has been brainwashed by the Alliance, but moreso, they managed to take everything from him. He hasn't always been an operative, he must've had a family and a life once, but they take everything from him, even his name.

If you've seen LoTR (and who hasn't?) it's kinda like how Frodo doesn't kill Gollum because he has to believe someone can come back to themselves from the power of the ring. Mal believes River is a person 'actual and whole', or at least can be, and the Operative deserves that same chance, to take back what the Alliance took from him, because if they can do it then he can too.

Does that make any sense, or am I just spouting gibberish?
Thoughts, opinions?


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:50 AM

J6NGO1977


Yes that does make sense. At the end of the day Mal is a good human being. Mal could have killed Jayne in Ariel but he didn't because he has a respect for his fellow man however bad they may be. I think Mal will only kill if he has to or in self defense. We all know the operative was a very bad man and Mal also knows this. However Mal cannot bring himself to kill a defenseles human being anymore than you and I could.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:55 AM

DOG13000


"What a whiner..."

-----
"Someone Ever Tries to Kill You, You Try and Kill Em' Right Back"
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Very Shiny: www.fireflystore.spreadshirt.net
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Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:58 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by j6ngo1977:
However Mal cannot bring himself to kill a defenseles human being anymore than you and I could.



Note that previously in Serenity Mal did in fact kill two people who weren't any particular threat to him. This is one way in which we know that Mal has been pushed to the limits of endurance by his situation and is no longer concerned about the niceties like not killing if you don't have to. That Mal then decides to spare the Operative is a sign of his redemption.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:14 AM

J6NGO1977


That is true. What am I saying? How can I forget Mal pushing a bad guy into Serenities engine. FOrget everything I said . LOL

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:25 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by j6ngo1977:
That is true. What am I saying? How can I forget Mal pushing a bad guy into Serenities engine. FOrget everything I said . LOL



Actually that doesn't count against Mal. Crow had just finished telling him that if he is let go he's just going to keep coming until Mal is dead. Even though Crow is at the moment no threat he is a danger to Mal and the crew for as long as he lives. Mal throughout the series does adhere rather scrupulously to the don't kill anybody you don't have to creed. It's Mal in Serenity the movie who has drifted from his noble (well as noble as thieves ever get) ideals.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:35 AM

AGIRLYMAN


Mal didn't kill Jayne, because Jayne had remorse for what he did.

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:10 PM

DONCOAT


Some people argue that sparing the Operative was the cruelest thing Mal could have done to him. Mal did, after all, do to him what Serenity Valley did to Mal himself: shatter his worldview and destroy his faith in the only things he cared about.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 3:15 PM

FOLLOWMAL



Which one do you believe, DonCoat? That it's Mal's redemption that makes him spare The Operative, or is it the worst punishment The Operative can face, and Mal knows it?

I'd be interested in your opinion....

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:18 PM

JAYNESBUNKWOMAN


I like to think that Mal let the operative live because he was broken and the operative knew it. Can't kill a thing that's already broken. Just as River is broken and needs tending, so does the operative. Not that Mal is going to do the tending, but he is giving the operative the chance mend himself.

I'll be in my bunk

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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:47 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

Which one do you believe, DonCoat? That it's Mal's redemption that makes him spare The Operative, or is it the worst punishment The Operative can face, and Mal knows it?

I'd be interested in your opinion....

Well, it's not like I'm the Foremost Authority or anything...

I'd say my feelings are close to what JBW said. During the fight, I'm sure Mal would have killed TheOp if he could have. But the fight developed in such a way that Mal could disable him rather than kill him outright. Once the threat was neutralized, I think Mal wanted his "I told you so" moment.

Once he'd made that decision, he could no longer (by his own code of ethics) murder the helpless Operative. He may also have been thinking that he might need him to call off the pursuit, but that didn't seem to be at the front of his mind just then.

He did (later) warn TheOp that sparing him was a reprieve, not a pardon. Mal won't forget what happened to Book and his other friends if he ever crosses paths with him again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:15 AM

FOLLOWMAL




Thanks, DonCoat... and hey, we all value you and your opinions.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Monday, February 27, 2006 7:05 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD


That's an excellent analysis Doncoat. One thing I thought of was that he let him live to show him that he was right about the Alliance. The Operative killed all those people to keep the secret that he is being shown. I think Mal wanted him to know exactly the reason (or secret) that the Operative was trying to protect for the Alliance. I think it was also to show the Operative that his belief was blind and Mal's was more than that.
IS

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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:00 PM

OTMA


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

Once he'd made that decision, he could no longer (by his own code of ethics) murder the helpless Operative. He may also have been thinking that he might need him to call off the pursuit, but that didn't seem to be at the front of his mind just then.



It seems apparent to me that whether or not Mal was thinking about needing the Operative to call off Alliance pursuit, his decision not to kill him saved the lives of his crew. Even with her back turned and all those rifles on her, River would have taken down a significant part of that squad, but all those wounded crew members in the line of fire would have been toast.
It's a well established action movie cliche' that a bad guy like the Operative always gets killed by the hero in the end. Perhaps Joss wanted to show that killing has consequences, not always forseen, and like Jayne said, Thinkin' on revenge ain't always in your best interests.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:43 PM

DONCOAT


Otma: yes, absolutely. On a storytelling level, Mal's sparing of TheOp (deliberate or not) led directly to the survival of his crew. Joss may have been making a point here about -- well, call it Karma if you like.

Or, it may have simply been to break with convention for breaking-with-convention's own sake.

In any case, I think it's a great choice, and if nothing else it leaves open the possibility of future encounters with the (former) Operative.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:55 AM

MISSTRESSAHARA


To me it seemed simple, the worse thing Mal could do to the Operative was let him live. Killing him would have been an easy way out, a quick release, and Mal, despite finding his faith, still had to deal with the anger and pain this man brought. A form of vengence. He did find his faith (or a form of it) but Mal, as I've seen, can be a man to hold a grudge. He let him live to suffer the truth, imho.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:15 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by otma:

It seems apparent to me that whether or not Mal was thinking about needing the Operative to call off Alliance pursuit, his decision not to kill him saved the lives of his crew. Even with her back turned and all those rifles on her, River would have taken down a significant part of that squad, but all those wounded crew members in the line of fire would have been toast.

It's a well established action movie cliche' that a bad guy like the Operative always gets killed by the hero in the end. Perhaps Joss wanted to show that killing has consequences, not always forseen, and like Jayne said, Thinkin' on revenge ain't always in your best interests.



A very, very good analysis. Thank you!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:05 AM

ASARIAN



Wow! All the good stuff has already been said! Well, that's never deterred me from weighing in before, lol; besides, I get to mention River a few times, and one can never do that too often. :) Okay, here goes:

I think Mal saving the Operative has something to do with winning a battle between the two on a more fundamental, personal level, which goes all the way back to the very beginning of the BDM, with young River's whole "We're meddlesome" speech. Mal is a free-thinker. The Operative, conditioned by the Alliance, you could say, is a slave to other people's thoughts. As young River's teacher says: "River, we're not telling people what to think, we're just trying to show them how."

The Operative, in his blind obedience, was willing to murder children (River; can you believe it? River!). The Operative was no grunt, of course; but, smarts and slickness despite, no less blind in his obedience. And Mal, after a fashion, had been getting pretty "desperate" about the Operative. Inara had told Mal: "He's intelligent, methodical, and devout in his belief that killing River is the right thing to do." And I think Mal understood, that the only way to really break that sort of spell, is to have people think for themselves.

So I believe, in the end, what Mal really needed, for his own mental survival, was to break the Operative on this not-thinking-for-yourself issue. He simply wanted the Operative to see, with his own eyes, and stop being a slave to the gorram Parliament. He wanted to get the Operative to see his way (That better than a plan? you ask; yes). Not out of spite, or personal vendetta, but simply for his own sanity.

And the Operative, of course, DOES make a free-will choice in the end; and the right one.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:17 AM

JDC


I see two related purposes:

1. It humanizes Mal to show he is drawing away from the dark place into which he had been straying.

2. It is redemption for kicking the poor bastard off the Mule in the beginning.

Of course, it didn't hurt that letting the Operative live may have been worse in the mind of the Operative.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:52 AM

KIZYR


I do think his letting the Operative live was very telling of his nature and his beliefs, in particular how they may have changed throughout the course of recent events. (Regardless, I was still yelling inside: "Kill the *@(#$! He killed ____, he deserves to ruttin' die!")

As for it being worse for the Operative that he was allowed to live, I'm not so sure I'm inclined to think so. The Op is someone who would, very readily, fall on his own sword if he's failed utterly and believes it better that he were dead--particularly considering how he meted out death for others based on the same principle. The Op is all manner of evil, but he doesn't strike me as a hypocrite.

Maybe his letting himself live is just as important as Mal's mercy? KF



~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.

~Haven Prayer

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:25 AM

BULLET1510


I think that it’s interesting that Book refuses point blank to discuss his (Alliance) past, yet during the film I believe we see a version of it anyway - with the Operative.

We know that Book had/has Alliance ties – ones that allow him to instantly receive medical care from an Alliance ship, he knows all about their tactics, weapons, procedures, the Operative’s modus operandi etc etc… Perhaps if Firefly continues in some form or another we might find out what Book’s 'Miranda' was…

Now that the 'scales' have been lifted from the Operative’s eyes, will he go out into the ‘verse, live in seclusion somewhere (perhaps a monastery) until he has learnt to live with what he has done...

Is this really about the cycle of life – the death of Book and the “rebirth” of the Operative???

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